/lit/ - Literature

>>11564956
I haven't read this book. Why does it make you not want to read Murakami?

I've only read the sailor who fell from grace with the sea, and confessions of a mask. Both are beautiful- I prefer the former by a small margin, but highly recommend both.

Jesus, Mishimafags are insufferable. Why don't you commit harakiri like your senpai?

anon who's never read murakami here, but wants to–describe his writing style in 5 words

The Sound of Waves is beautiful in its own right

I'm replying so late because I'm at work and it got kind of busy.

>>11564993
It makes Murakami's use of surrealism seem childish by comparison, who "stretches reality" only to the extent that weird and unexpected things happen in slice-of-life drama. Also, Mishima's use of metaphor is more subtle and poignant, for example, a drop of ink polluting a clear pond to describe the effect of a girl has. As opposed to: 'I hate my haircut, I look like a holocaust survivor.' Or 'ronery in my room, just chilling, like a literal hermit crab'. But then, I've only read 1Q84, SS, KoTS, and NW by the latter author. Maybe it's not a fair comparison. To me, Murakami appeals for a Aeolian range of emotion (I.e. "feels") whearas Mishima's fiction is more expository.

>>11564996
I was on the fence between starting with Confessions Of A Mask, or with Sea of Fertility, and I decided to go big or go home. But if you prefer the The Sailor Who Fell From Grace, then it's the one I'll read next.

>>11565018
I wish I had found him sooner. Although, it might be even more annoying to see an author you already like get popular around here.

>>11565046
Like the sweet summer rain.

>>11565099
What did you find beautiful about it?

>>11565099
...then it's the one I'll read next.

Seaside setting. Port city. Single mother with young son. Mothers new romance, and the adventures of an 8 year old boy. I liked it a whole lot.


The way he depicts his early childhood memories in Confessions (first few pages) are soooo pleasant, you feel nostalgic towards your very first moments of life. He begins at birth, and goes through the life of a boy/youth/man realizing his sexuality in war-time [tokyo, i reckon]

Also very beautiful. I think i prefer sailor only due to the harbor village / young boys mischief- bits which resonated with me a whole lot.


Hope i didn't reveal to much, both are worth reading-

I'll be reading Thirst for Love next.

>>11565144
Fuck, meant to quote OP >>11565133
>>11565133
>>11565133

>>11565133
>>11565144
I've never read Japanese literature before, what should I start with?

>>11565153
confessions of a mask / temple of the golden pavillion

skip the murakameme entirely

>>11565153
Kokoro by Natsume Sōseki, or one of Kōbō Abe's novels.
They're subdued and melancholy, but comforting.
Also read the short story "Bone Meat" by Taeko Kōno.

Are you reading it in English or Japanese? Is it worth reading in English?

>>11565358
In English, because I don't know Japanese.

>>11565326
A compilation of Japanese Short stories would be just as good. I agree with you on Kokoro, though. With older books like that, there's no affectation like you would have in western writing today that the writer is "from another culture" without actually being from another culture--although it's worth saying that Soseki studied foreign literature in college.

>>11565153
Thousand Cranes by Kawabata
The Sound of Waves by Mishima
Kokoro by Soseki
The Setting Sun by Dazai
Fire on the Plains by Ooka

>>11564956
I've never read any book as slowly as this, except maybe for Book of the New Sun. For some reason, both have a style that just puts me to fucking sleep.
Still, in the case of Mishima that might have more to do with the translation than anything else. As a non-native English speaker and a person that understands a bit of Japanese, I can see how they might've fucked it up. There is a reason why proper anime subs and academic works translated from Japanese come with a thousand fucking footnotes. Still, there passages in which his style truly shines.
>His eye was caught by the iridescent back of a beetle that had been standing on the windowsill but was now advancing steadily into his room. Two reddish purple stripes ran the length of its brilliant oval shell of green and gold. Now it waved its antennae cautiously as it began to inch its way forward on its tiny hacksaw legs, which reminded Kiyoaki of minuscule jeweler’s blades. In the midst of time’s dissolving whirlpool, how absurd that this tiny dot of richly concentrated brilliance should endure in a secure world of its own. As he watched, he gradually became fascinated. Little by little the beetle kept edging its glittering body closer to him as if its pointless progress were a lesson that when traversing a world of unceasing flux, the only thing of importance was to radiate beauty. Suppose he were to assess his protective armor of sentiment in such terms. Was it aesthetically as naturally striking as that of this beetle? And was it tough enough to be as good a shield as the beetle’s? At that moment, he almost persuaded himself that all its surroundings—leafy trees, blue sky, clouds, tiled roofs—were there purely to serve this beetle which in itself was the very hub, the very nucleus of the universe.

cont.

>>11565783
What draws me most to Mishima is the stark distinction that still remains in his attitude towards life between real aristocracy vs upstarts/inferiors. It's something that's completely absent in almost all of European lit, where they go out of their way to paint the aristocrats as the bad guys and the poor as suffering souls that need Christ. It's all so tiresome. There is none of that hatred towards humanity to be found in Mishima's works, just a love of beauty and of performing in life to the fullest under those standards, which is why acknowledging some as inferior and unworthy is necessary.
>As Iinuma stood before him with bowed head, the chest hair escaping from the neck of his blue kimono glistened faintly, caught in a ray of the evening sun. Kiyoaki stared gloomily at this matted tangle, depressed at the realization of what a distastefully coarse and heavy vessel Iinuma’s flesh made for his overpowering spirit of loyalty. It was, in fact, a direct physical affront. Even the glow on Iinuma’s rough-skinned, pimpled cheeks, mottled and unhealthy as it was, had something shameless about it that seemed to taunt Kiyoaki with Miné’s devotion—Miné who was leaving with Iinuma, ready to share his fate. Nothing could be more insulting: the young master betrayed by a woman and left to grieve; the retainer believing in a woman’s fidelity and going off triumphant. Iinuma, moreover, was quite secure in the conviction that today’s farewell had come about in the line of duty—a presumption that Kiyoaki found galling.

Great example of that. Anyway, I personally find Murakami disgustingly bad. Everything I've read from him is trash. NISIOISIN is unironically a superior author, and he's essentially writing a fucking harem light novel. Only the sort of trash underage retards that linger on this board the hopes of becoming great literary figures when they have the minds of brainlets enjoy Murakami. Or basedboys. And women, of course, but they're all born retarded.

>>11565800
> just a love of beauty and of performing in life to the fullest under those standards
However, Mishima clearly expresses his distaste for those who fail to live up to his ideal, especially concerning the physical aspect. I'm sure one could argue that he shares some of Isao's disgust directed towards the financial elite as well, and while there are some who value purity and manage to act virtuously, many of his characters are pretty nasty people. He certainly doesn't seem to entertain any excessively positive conception of humanity. I also don't think that Western literature is as simple as you think when it comes to generalizations among adherents to socio-economic classes.

I couldn't agree with you more on Murakami. When he used the translation of an English language idiom in KotS I nearly vomited.

>>11566005
Well, that's true, he's mostly focused on aesthetics. But it's one of the few books I've read that have made me reconsider my own ideas on that front, and the importance I give to beauty in general.
>I also don't think that Western literature is as simple as you think when it comes to generalizations among adherents to socio-economic classes.
Well, what would you recommend that isn't Russian or German lit? Ideally something that doesn't shit all over aristocratic ideals and so on. I seriously despise the kind of moralizing that happens in Dickens.

I knew my theory that only self-styled middlebrow aesthetes hate Murakami was right, thanks for giving me more examples OP.

>>11566132
>that isn't Russian or German lit
Well, that makes things a bit more difficult for me. I don't know if that's what you're looking for, but the narrator of the recherche is definitely fascinated by the mystique surrounding the Guermantes family, but ultimately the characters are studied in a way that doesn't reduce them to ideas. Obviously the focus is on the more affluent members of society and discussions about etymology may become a bit tedious, but there is no indictment or resentment and the non-aristocratic characters are also treated with dignity and not as helpless victims who need to be saved.
>>11566167
Funny how you say that and you probably can't name one thing that makes Kafka on the Shore a good book. Can you justify the SJW chapter? Hoshino and the prostitute? The encounter with "Johnnie Walker"? The superficial conversations with Oshima? Can you post ONE well-written paragraph?

>>11566194
>I don't know if that's what you're looking for
I guess a book told from the perspective of the higher class that doesn't try to play into Christian/Socialist ideas of equality for all and abolishing class distinctions, and one that embraces the idea of one group simply being bred to be superior than another.
The type of attitude you find in reading older historians, more or less. An actual loathing of people that are stupid, ugly, and poor.

>>11566215
>that embraces the idea of one group simply being bred to be superior than another
I don't think you will find that anywhere past classical antiquity or heroic myths and to be frank I don't see how you get that from Mishima. His emphasis, as is probably almost everybody's after a certain point, is on the perfectibility of the individual and his scorn for physical weakness or a weak will is not tied to genealogy, at least that is how I see his work.