/lit/ - Literature

battle is lost, but war isn't
at this point, what else have the people got to lose?

>>11553183
Their bread

Read Capital

the battle is lost but you still have to get to the battleground

Everything is always already lost

>>11553223
Based

Keep in mind that the manifesto is a pamphlet for uneducated workers

>>11553405
So the answer to OP's question is yes

It's a good starting point if you are trying to get into 20th century philosophy. Make sure to brush up on Kant and Hegel first

>>11553119
the battle is lost op
the only question that remains is, what will neoliberalism destroy first; our usefullness (through automation), culture or the enviroment

>>11553119
http://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anonymous-desert
this is a better start

Nuke America and you're halfway there. Once the retards are taken out change can begin.

if you read enough about governance and economics it becomes evident that communism is not something to be fought for and it's not something you lose, it's the natural state of things, always lurking under the surface.
normies love daydreaming about post-apocalypse where they think the world will break apart into endless violence where they can become the action hero or sociopath that was inside them all along... but they're normies. when things break down they will instinctively become more pro-social than they ever have in their life. that's communism.

>>11553119
Muh communism will win!!!!!

http://www.france24.com/en/20180731-venezuelas-president-admits-economy-has-failed

>>11554457
So communism really is a spectre.

>>11554469
muh benezuela

>>11554483
But like it wasn't real communism this time!!!!
Is not like there is a correlation bewteen poor countries and closed ultra regulated economies

Also, dear lord that meme, cringe af

>>11554473
there's a reason revolution is such a constant refrain in communism lit: they know a hierarchy will always tend to form, it will have to be destroyed each time.

>>11554498
>ideologue complaining about cringe

>>11554483
Nick fucked Dasha while wearing her clothes.

>>11554469
The oil curse strikes again. USA next?

>>11554507
>if you dont support an ideology that has failed countless times in history you are an ideologue

>>11554516
Thats why you dont centralize all your country economy into one market

>>11554519
>not supporting something is the same as spending all your time visibly seething about it in places where people who promote that ideology gather

>>11554532
>Spending all my time

Nigga the fuck are you talking about

>>11554548
Talking about your cookies bruh

>>11553119
the battle was lost by 1945. after the bomb and cybernetics, the age of the human subject (let alone muh proletariat) came to a definite end. If Marx is to be read at all, he will be read through Land and Marinetti. can what is playing you make it to level 2?

>>11554469
Can someone answer this for me: why do countries keep trying to adopt socialist policies while the rest of the world is still capitalist? Even if they are true socialist or whatever aren’t they still at the mercy of global markets, import/export industry etc. isn’t the inevitable conclusion that they will get eaten alive by their better-performing neighbours and end up degenerating into poverty? I mean I guess they could completely shut themselves off from the world but most countries rely heavily on trade anyways. What’s the point when the inevitable conclusion is always a catastrophe? Marxists understand this on a smaller scale with super-profits from business, why can’t they make that leap to a global scale?

>>11554554
Nick Land makes Michio Kaku look like Werner Heisenberg

>>11554566
Almost every economy in the world is not capitalist, but a mixed economy. A mixed economy has elements of both Laissez-Faire market economies (capitalism) and command economies (U.S.S.R. style communism).

>>11554469

>state capitalism
>communism

Am i missing something here???

>>11554574
Ok but that doesn’t answer my question. If country A decides to adopt a socialist command economy which will make them less productive (in the short term at least until they can get their shit together, assuming they even can). Meanwhile they have trade relationships with countries B-Z who have traditional mixed economies. Their trade relationship involves the importing and exporting of numerous goods and whatever else in a huge interconnected web. So now country A is at a trade disadvantage and because it hasn’t withdrawn from the global economy now has to incur debt to subsidise the new economy. Countries B-Z continue to trade and accrue debt against country A due to their lapse in productivity. Assuming the other countries continue won’t the debt continue to accumulate and the country will never return to their full productive force?

>>11554469
The abolition of wage labour and the commodity form was never the intention of Chavez' Postmodern Bonapartism. actual communization will probably take decades and beyond automation will involve a total social and psychological restructuring of all and relations via techno organic dasein machine (aka. machine for freedom).

>>11554597
>which will make them less productive
that's quite the assumption.

socialist roads makes the economy more productive.
socialist medical care makes the economy more productive.
and so on, socialism and capitalism seem to mix very well.

>>11554597
The thing about debt is it only applies to weak countries. Become unfuckwithable and you take on all the debt you want.

>>11554611
It will make them less productive when they transition from mixed economy to a new economy. There will be a lapse in productivity while the new economy is restructured and reorganised which will require the country to supplement their available resources with trade products from other countries, starting this downward spiral. It seems to me that a country like the USSR for instance was so large and had so many neighbours going through a similar process that they were able to make it through this hump and isolate themselves from the capitalistic world powers (despite the famines that occurred anyways). However a small trade reliant country like Venezuela, who trades predominantly with Capitalist countries, can't seem to reverse the downward spiral caused by this shift and other crisis like the oil one in 2011.
>>11554627
I agree which is why the USSR and China are probably the best models of a command economy in practice (still pretty shitty models but whatever). To me it still seems like prolonged suicide when these smaller countries start to move towards the more socialist side of policies.

>>11554597
degrowth paradigm, global debt amnesty, national economies modelled as viable systems built with a view for eventual integration within a larger, democratically-run global economy. Our civilisation produces more data in one day than the sum of all data produced by humans since the invention of writing to 2003. The problem is, this isn't being run as an efficient free-market price signal mechanism, it's a series of increasingly centralised and increasingly less transparent mechanism of cybernetic control.

http://ada.evergreen.edu/~arunc/texts/cybernetics/beer/book.pdf

>>11554644
So essentially your solution is a Cybersyn style computer that determines production based on data of human activity similar to predictive algorithms used by Google and Amazon? That's actually pretty interesting I gotta say although it does seem like that's the part of the movie where the downfall of humanity began and the machines took over.

>>11554498
imagine being this ignorant of history so you can pull out a tired argument because you're scared of an idea

>>11554638
>To me it still seems like prolonged suicide when these smaller countries start to move towards the more socialist side of policies.
It's not suicide, it's murder. Why do you think the oil curse is so prevalent? The globalist/capitalists/neolibs/ancaps/etc swoop in to extract everything which requires capturing the government so they create an oligarch class, fund anti-social propaganda, astroturf political "movements" and so on. Worse still, the more a government fights to hold on to their pro-social ideals the more likely it becomes that those globalists will start the whisper campaign back in their homeland and before you know it the west has sanctioned you or if have no nukes, drone bombers are flying overhead.

>>11554655
>I gotta say although it does seem like that's the part of the movie where the downfall of humanity began and the machines took over.

basically we need to build a Good Computer in an open and democratic fashion before Google, Amazon and Palantir go ahead and build the Bad Computer. our banal cyber reality rests on the graveyard of the unrealised utopias of the 60s- visions hopeful, disturbing and often eerily familiar. The future was already there, it was just not evenly distributed. I guess that's what Mark Fisher was on to when he talked about Acid Communism. The Way Out is Through. watch out for the pattern which connects.

>>11554682
So why do these countries still go down this path? Especially these South American countries with their recent history during the cold war? Is this process of a country becoming Socialist and then getting fucked over just a way for other countries to extract their resources over a long period of time? Is it all just a long con that is actually perpetrated by the USA in order to legally colonise these areas via debt slavery?

>>11554711
I honestly don't think the US government is that clever/organized. There's multiple factions at play, in and out of the government - which isn't a huge distinction given the lobbyist oligarchy that has been in place for decades.
The oil boys want all the oil and in a hurry before global warming catches up with them.
The arms boys are down for any bullshit that will require expensive munitions.
The finance boys want access to whatever the region has to squeeze: government debt, drug trade, gun running, whatever.
And then the neo-politicians tie it all together by being on board with any of it that comes there way and willing to push it internationally and legitimize it until it's just "commonsense".

>>11553119

>>11554711
>So why do these countries still go down this path?
And to answer this.... can't know without being part of the culture but I assume it's just that, the culture. When some of the most iconic heroes of your culture are socialists it's hard to stop it coming back no matter how many civil wars the CIA fund.

>>11554469
>BEDDER DEN GOMMU-

>>11554554
>dude what if far-left critiques of post-industrialism were post-ironic lmao

>>11554469
Social Democracy is literally Communism !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>11554772
Thats an insult to Sowell if anything

>>11554577
Don't bother trying to reason with anyone who thinks along those lines.

>>11554711
>So why do these countries still go down this path?
What other choice they have, let the status quo persist?

>>11554947
Yes. If the outcome will clearly lead to a total collapse of the economy then why should they? People don't care what banner they suffer under, what matters is that they suffer. If you account for the possibilities and show that it could work than go for it but there's just so much evidence that it won't, especially in that corner of the world with the USA as their neighbour. What's the point of banging your head against a brick wall especially if you don't have enough to afford a bulldozer. Shouldn't a country like Venezuela just play the capitalist game until they are so wealthy that it won't matter if the US starts fucking with them?

>>11554989
But it hasn't? China has been outpacing the US in growth for nearly three decades with a MUCH, MUCH more nationalized economy. In the very near future the Chinese GDP will be higher than the US GDP, which is kind of insane considering that metric is set up specifically to bias less regulation in order to prop up imperialist IMF economies of debt in unequal exchanges for natural resources.

>>11555013
I was talking about Venezuela but I do agree that China is definitely an example of a country doing it right. They have the power and the might to express their desires onto the world as a result of playing the capitalist game better than any other country. What remains to be seen is whether China will abandon their authoritarian hyper-capitalism when push comes to shove, somehow I doubt it.

>>11554989
I am sure the disposed and poor would take that into consideration admist their desperation.

>Shouldn't a country like Venezuela just play the capitalist game until they are so wealthy that it won't matter if the US starts fucking with them?
Pffft, Philippines has USA's biggest bitch and it is still the shithole it was. Playing the game doesn't necessitate you being wealthy and shit, especially if you have the resource curse

>>11555035
>authoritarian hyper-capitalism
But China did not liberalized its economy and is very much an authoritarian hyper- state capitalism, even more so than Venezuela.

so Communism is kind of like a subgenre of hard Sci Fi but without any basis in science?

>>11553223
[laughs in neoliberal]

>>11555052
I think you should reread my post.

Is communism basically when there is only one interest group (humanity) and we share capital?

>>11555053
It deals with ownership of capital. Either the people control it or a social class does.

>>11555091
>goalpost shifting to an agreeable dictionary/agitprop definition
Slippery, but as expected. Many other people pointed out the concentration of ownership, exploitation (in a tangible, visible rather than autistic abstract sense) and the problems of social stratification and so on, who weren't Marxian Communists.

>>11555109
If they advocate for the people's control of capital then they are communism.

>>11555086
it's basically a cyberpunk genre where we either get the nice computer who makes us all the good commodities we want and pats us on the head or the evil computer that kills us all

There is going to be division of labor. Assigning agency and control to one or a few divisions over others is where shit gets dicey.
Can one have a meaningfully efficient/intelligent division of labor with a distributed hierarchy of administration? I don't know. We can and should try.

>>11555121
Star Trek or cyberpunk

Marx was wrong because not all people were born equal. We all have different skills and paying everyone the same when others do all the hard work is just bullshit. Also no one wants to share all their belongings with each other.

Commies are delusional people who can't accept reality and how things actually work in the world.

>>11553183
Their chains

>>11555131
It's deeper than that. The Marxist story always has the familiar fairy tale of high vs low. Once you realize this you see it everywhere in the doctrine. The characters change, but the end goal of stoking up resentment in the hearts of the 'low' so they will act out of vengeance against the 'high' while dressing it up in claims of equality and justice is the same. True justice is giving men their due according to their differing ability and individual destiny.

>>11555113
False, that can be socialism or anarchism. Communism is a specific family of belief systems. But getting Communists to state plainly what it is exactly they're striving for is another story, despite it being an intellectual movement with a vast back catalogue. So they (You) generally resort to apologetics and rhetorical shell games like this one.

>>11554532
Doesn't seem particularly effective at promoting communism in practice.

>>11555144
t. I learned everything I know about Marx from Friedrich Nietzsche and Ayn Rand

You guys know OP asked if it was the starting point right? No matter what kind of politics you are into if you are trying to get into modern political philosophy you pretty much have to read it.

>>11555183
Are you implying Nietzsche wasn't spot on? Communism is textbook slave morality

>>11554532
tu quoque

>>11554644
>http://ada.evergreen.edu/~arunc/texts/cybernetics/beer/book.pdf
lol the cs program at evergreen would have you reading this kind of shit

>>11555195
Yes, I'm saying he wasn't, but also that your characterization of Marx sounds like you haven't read any primary source material and only people who strongly oppose any collectivism.

>>11554644
>>11554708
Doesn't solve the incentive problem or the fundamental issues of the calculation problem, Paul.

>>11554786
not like anyone's forcing anyone else to buy her silly shit, mate.

>>11553119
Yeah dude the revolution's right around the corner just keep on reading your volumes of marxist literature I'm sure the plebs are gonna snap any second now lol

>>11554566
Having a successful economy does not require being part of the global capitalist structure. You don't have to get financing from abroad. Countries used to do it all the time. Nobody is at the "mercy" of global markets.

>>11555218
Oh, you mean the problem where people didn't do anything productive and just sat on there asses and played LoL all day before the great entrepeneurs rose up and gave us slave gypsy cabs?
Or the one where people are too stupid to know what to buy and sell goods for unless they have the great ma bell telling them that iPhone is going to cost a kidney and also why are you buying that and not paying Kaiser your kidney protection money and also Amazon just opened up a store in the old public library after they bought your municipal government. Install the echo collar now or pay the fine.

>>11555131
https://youtu.be/pzQZ_NDEzVo

>>11555215
Marxist scientism is a shoddy veneer for Hegelian propheseying.

>>11555228
>Nobody is at the "mercy" of global markets
What kind of ideology is this

>>11555241
You should just read Marx. I guarantee it will be faster than shooting in the dark for beliefs you think I hold.

>>11555233
Imagine seething this hard. Good luck with modeling prices, though.

>>11555249
Prices for what?
What do I need prices for?

>>11555248
READ VOLUME III. EAT YOUR OWN WORDS.

>>11555253
I already did. You're going to have to be a bit more specific than incoherent yelling and vagaries like pointing to a volume of Capital.

>>11555252
I dunno, the Soviets spent about 70 years trying to socially calculate their own, but ended up just pricing consumer goods equal to those in foreign markets.

Start with Marx, gallop on with Gramsci

the problem with threads like these is that the only people that participate in them are puffed up dimwits that don't ever read nothing, and don't intend to.

>>11555256
Marx had to ad-hoc justify his conjectures in Volume I with Hegelian woo in Volume III. See, for example, his distinction between "real" and "fictitious" capital.

>>11555260
>the problem with /lit/
Fixed that for you

>>11555257
Sounds inefficient. That must be why they lost the space race and why Cuban healthcare is worse than U.S. freedom. It must be so terrible not to have price signals. Without price signals, how can we tell the best way to exploit Puerto Rican schoolchildren?

>>11555260
Keep posting the same platitudes, they get me hard.

>>11555266
point to the 'platitude' please

>>11555264
Thanks for conceding defeat, twerp.

>>11555262
Go on...
Is this the episode where you cherrypick few flaws in Capital and then go on to say that the entire analysis is wrong and that communism necessarily leads to starvation and also capitalism is the one true path?

>>11555270
>REED BUK

>>11555271
I'm lmaoing at your comprehension skills

>>11555273
did you think i was enjoining you to read marx?
or anything specific?
what do you think i think?

>>11555272
Tell me more about the Tendency and the Markov processes, Paul. You're empirical data is water-tight, right?

>>11555281
*your

>>11555281
So you're going to do exactly what I said you would?

>>11555264

I'm sorry, you were saying?

>>11555280
Experience dictates that there is only one side who levies accusations of "not reading" against the other in these threads.

>>11555287
I was just saying earlier how you can't read graphs and it's hilarious why you don't question at all why China isn't on your little agitprop prop.

>>11555277
so hey there are actually a ton of public institutions in america like not everything runs off price signals in the 'capitalist' west but you know it's kind of weird to point to results of the 'space race' as some kind of victory for socialism when it was really just two enormous government agencies employing a bunch of nerds to play with slide rules and draw graphs like this has anything to do with the determination of prices through a command structure or not

>people ITT arguing against communism

umm you guys know its literally inevitable right?

>>11555260
>the problem with communist movements
yeah it always was primarily a malignant psued sect with no redeeming features, as is evident today by its hormonal insectoid proselytes.

>>11555285
Hey now, you were the one accusing me of cherrypicking based upon whatever ideology you attribute to me, but you only need look in the mirror.

>>11555288
well your experience has betrayed your judgment in this instance you silly cow
no surprise my meaning escaped you then

>>11555296
What did I cherrypick?
You're the one reciting cherrypicked neoliberal "refutations" of communism in a communism thread.

>>11555277
Oh, I read it. It's just that whenever one of you sodomites starts to sputter with emotional overtures, that's when you've run out of anything else to say.

>>11555300
You don't know what an overture is, do you Billybob?

>>11555297
I'm tired, sue me.

>>11555299
You're accusing a strawman of my position of "cherrypicking," so I extended the same treatment in kind.

>>11555289

Ok, you explain the graph. What I see is the Soviets beaten by Japan.

As for China, do you mean the China that decided to embrace a market economy in the 70s after decades of economic stagnation and murder under Mao? The China that still isn't as rich per capita as Taiwan?

>>11555303
Yes I do, it's the introduction to a long, deep-seated opera of whines emanating from the Marxists on this board.

>>11555309
I mean the China that in 2018 is still primarily nationalized and where even in the private sector the government is a majority stakeholder in most corporations.

I mean the China that has the highest GDP by Purchasing Power Parity in the world at this second.

I mean the China that's doing all this while propping up North Korea and other communist satellite states.

>>11553119
the battle is far from over

>>11555313
If it bother you so much you can always go back to your fascism generals on your edgelord home board.

>>11555328
>techno-fascist neo-imperial china proves communism is viable
How many of their citizens are still impoverished?
Their cutting edge social credit, mind reading and general total surveillance system is pretty neat. If you gain a foothold in the Party through your stellar contributions in intellectual labour (surely academic Mandarin is a trifle for anyone smart enough to comprehend Zizek's ouvre), you'll soon be able to downvote problematic thought strains that make you irritable directly from your neural interface. The only alternative is barbarism right?

>>11554516
The resource curse only applies when entire economy is financially dependent on a single resource - the US sells other things too so, probably never?

>>11555328
That's ddisingenuous, China's economy grew once the economy stopped trying to centrally plan it. The fact that "the government is a majority stakeholder in most corporations" is more to do with the fact that any organization in a totalitarian single-party state must have state oversight to prevent it operating against state interests and that becoming a party member in necessary to get ahead. Economically China is capitalist.

>>11554554
lol faggot

>>11555435
The vast majority of the economy is nationalized, the public sector.
If capitalism was truly the reason for the growth you would expect the US to have grown more than China since there were no markets allowed until Deng in the latter, and perhaps more importantly because the private sector is larger than the public sector in thr US. However, we see that the opposite is true. Even by a metric that favors less regulation, China is still on top in growth and GDP by PPP.

>>11555380
Stay mad. You have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide.

>>11555546
>universal emancipation shtick is just a pleb recruitment smokescreen
Suspicious honesty...

Daily reminder communism is actually a religion. I know this board is religious and people would probably find that a good thing but it's not, it's like you would be forced to worship another religion instead of Christianity and you would live under something similar to the church during the inquisition

>Just like Christianity relies completely on the bible, Communism relies completely on the works of Marx (OP's image is probably THE bible of communism), Lenin, Mao, etc.

>Just like the bible has been proven to be flawed and many of its statements have been disproven by scientific research, Marx's writings also proved to be easily refuted and proven wrong by scientific research

>Just like people worship God, Jesus and saints depending on your Christian doctrine, communists worship Marx, Lenin, Mao, etc almost as saints too

>Just like Christianity makes promises of a place on heaven where everyone is happy, communism promises an utopia where everyone is equal and everyone's needs are met. The most interesting thing here is that both of these promises would actually appeal to poor people (medieval peasants and labour workers) because they were easier to control and please but all those promises are lies and just a way to control the masses

>Just like the church would hunt heretics and others who threatened the church's sovereignty (especially during the inquisition), communist governments would also hunt any "heretics" who didn't conform with communism

leftists need to grow up

>>11554807

We asked Theodore to critique the culture industry and he actually did it! The ABSOLUTE MADMAN

what historical background should I understand before reading about communism and soviet union?
How does the french revolution affected or preeeded communism?

>>11553223
>

>>11554469
>Vuvuzela
>not a capitalist shithole
lmao

>>11556084
>grow up
>posts a shitty strawman comic

>>11553119
Why does Socialism only work in Nordic countries? Why was East Germany the best functioning of the Warsaw Pact nations? Really makes you think.

>>11556417
Really makes ya think when socialism is only tried by the biggest shitholes in the world

>>11556417
>nordic countries
>socialism

Read Marx

>dude, capitalism has the potential for these problems if you take it reductio ad absurdim
>so we should just go pants-on-head retarded

I would agree that some of Marx's criticisms are valid to some degree, but what he proposed as the alternative was ridiculous. He also framed his argument as unfalsifiable, so there's no real point in arguing.

>>11555291
>said the increasingly nervous commie for the 150th year straight

>>11556301
>stop representing us as puerile clowns
Unflattering though it may be, inaccurate it ain't. As evidence, just look at this chart: >>11556294
This is a fellow who, like you, has some higher designs for planning all society. This isn't some kind of aberration, this is very much your fraternal kin, and you are bound to him by the iron bracelets of Solidarity.

>>11556084
lmao nibba did you just arrive by time maschine from the early 19th century? nowadays all the market research and in fact all the administration in general is done by employees.

>>11556294
>third-world, XIX century and dictatorship caused famines are result of free-market
>>11556417
>muh if only uniform society would introduce socialism it would be good
also
>Nordic countries
>socialist

>>11556468
>third-world, XIX century and dictatorship caused famines are result of free-market
It's as retarded as claiming gommunism ate 100 gorillion babies and that was the point of posting it.

>muh if only uniform society would introduce socialism it would be good
Well... maybe? Eastern Europe is still a massive shithole after socialism, soooooo...?

>>11554574
ROADS IS CUMMUNSIM!!
State involvement in capitalism is necessary and inevitable; it was born to enforce and assist profit and it will die doing that role.

>>11554708
This is the first I've heard of Palantir, so I looked them up. Something about their wikipedia article just seems incredibly sinister.

>>11555220
>If nobody is making you buy her stuff then it's fine that a 20 year old can hoard enough wealth to end world hunger based on her sister's ability to suck cock catapulting her family to fame
Yeah capitalism just works

>>11556814
SHE EARNED THAT WEALTH, YOU SHITLORD!

>>11556843
I just checked and if you ignore taxes it would take her almost 16,000 years of non-stop minimum wage work to save that much money. Over 66,000 years of 40-hour work weeks.
Truly amazing that she has worked so efficiently that she squeezed thousands of lifetimes of work into just a few years, she must be an unimaginable genius.

>>11556881
YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORK HARD, YOU HAVE TO WORK SMART, K?!?!?! IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT THEN SET UP A BUSINESS, OK? PRAISE KEK MAGA FUCK LIBKEKS

>>11556814
>>11556843
>>11556881
>>11556905
Simply epic, /leftypol/. Subversion complete.

>>11556702
When you consider the size and the dependence of the entire US economy, both directly and indirectly, on the Department of Defense, which depends on our tax dollars and the national debt incurred on our future, at what point is our economy even remotely a capitalistic, independent entity?

Please read and let me know: https://joanroelofs.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/insecurity-blanket.pdf

>>11556798
Hahahahahaha

>>11557023
What was subverted? What're you even trying to say when you make posts like this?
There have to be more left-leaning posters on /lit/ than people who have ever been to /leftypol/. People disagree with your shit cancerous board, but you continue to endlessly act like your ideology is mandatory to be a "real" poster on any other board.

>>11554511
hell yeah dude

i want tankies to go to the gulag of their dreams already.

>>11554469
>The amount of asshurt /leftypol/ faggots
lmao a few years ago they were drooling over how Venezuela was "Chile if that evil Pinochet never took power from BASED Allende" and now it's just state capitalism

>>11557117
>There have to be more left-leaning posters on /lit/ than people who have ever been to /leftypol/
>This is what faggot lefties actually think
Yikes

>>11557034
Haaaaaa

wtf is that really true???

>>11557234
Yeaaaaah there is something about this that seems kind of bullshitty

>>11557238
No, he was a materialist you fool

>>11557253
He still nutted over Adam Smith daily tho

>>11557258
You don't?
That's kind of weird bro

>>11556814
>that a 20 year old can hoard enough wealth to end world hunger
>$900 million
No, and look up who Vilfredo Pareto is you retarded commie

The day I was born was the beginning and the battle will be lost the day I die.

>>11557266
>muh rational actor pseudoscience Pareto principle apologism means that it's an undeniable fact that some people should have 150 billion and others should spend most of their lives in debtor's prison and sharecropping.

>>11557252
What about it would you care to refute? Is Peter Thiel actually a virtuous job creator?

>>11557292
Well there is something about the zero citiations wall of text image that seems... Unacademic

>>11557277
>Everything I don't like is pseudoscience
>I don't actually know who Parents was
Yes because redistributing wealth en masse doesn't actually work and just makes society more unstable via the authoritarianism needed to make sure wealth can't concentrate into anyone's hands too much.

>>11557332
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2018-palantir-peter-thiel/
I'm not sure how to find most of the sources for the article, but here it is

>>11557349
>I'm not sure how to find the sources
Because it's a speculatory article my guy, if you can't easily find soirces linked to you on the article then that should be a major red flag

>>11557347
What does allocation efficiency have to do with entertainment magnates drowning in money, that isn't efficient at all

>>11557347
Taxes aren't authoritarian, nimwit

>>11557369
Well you've convinced me, now I will happily bend over for my cavity search when Peter Thiel tells the ATF I'm 63% likely to have an illegal firearm

>>11557023
stfu retard

Keep in mind communism has led to nothing but misery and human slaughterhouses, yet commies insist on trying just once more, this time done right

>>11557373
>allocation efficiency
nice nu speak, it's forcefully reallocating resources by seizing them through authoritarian means.

>>11557379
>Hey I'm to tax you for all your money, comply or you will be sent to prison to get assraped and shanked
Yeah they kind of are

>>11557401
Doesn't mean I approve of the Palantir , but it's obviously shoddy journalism

>>11554457
>but they're normies. when things break down they will instinctively become more pro-social than they ever have in their life. that's communism.
Because civilizations and emerging cultures are inherently hierarchical? This hyper-social society only occurs in times of crisis or in totally undeveloped cultures. This is more natural than what humans always do when they're no longer living in anxiety or primitive states? Okay then...

>>11555052
You know absolutely nothing about China

>>11557598
Yes he does, Deng liberalized the Chinese economy in ways Xi will never reverse.

>>11557573
JOURNALISTS
DO
NOT
NEED
TO
POST
SOURCES
IN-TEXT
if you have an inquiry or find a specific claim suspect, you can contact the editors directly
Literally
Whenever
Because scrutinizing sources is part of their fucking job.

>>11557569
>having to follow laws is tyranny
Just go die in the Alaskan wilderness if you hate society so much

>>11557696
They should have to do so though.
Why is protecting sources considered important again?
If I wanted to watch intelligence agency propaganda I could just switch on RT.

>>11557706
>Why is protecting sources considered important again?
You really can't think of a single reason, anon?

>>11554469
Chavism was anti-imperialism on steroids. They had no plan whatsoever from the starting point and didn't even ask Cuba for help because Chavez considered Castro to be too old. Well, in the end, Fidel demonstrated how wrong Chavez was.

>>11553119
there never was a battle

>>11557912
Supposedly this is for protection from retaliation, but all this seems to do in practice is perpetuate a culture of secrecy and kowtowing to power instead of unabashedly speaking truth to it.

Why should reporters bear the brunt of the risk? Why should the public be conditioned to see all sources calling themselves news as equal instead of given the opportunity to evaluate those sources used by journalists themselves?

I don't need the inside skinny on my government before official acknowledgement. I need a transparent government.
I don't need journalists telling me what counts as good information and how to interpret said information, I want them to tell me where they got the information and what the data in question actually is.

>>11557696
>Dude just trust the media or call the editors
No, post your goddamn sources or else I won't believe what you're saying. I have zero responsibility to trust random journalists on their words alone.

>>11558096
>>11558358
At some point you have to draw the line and say "This is where I will consider something credible." I don't think there are any lines there you can draw that will be faultless and perfect. How skeptical are you? What if the sources are also made up? What if the photos are doctored? What if the transcripts were tampered with? How do you know anything really happens that you can't see and hear yourself? It's not a simple question.

Marxian Communism is an obsolete system. Dugin and go full National Bolshevik.

>>11557232
Confirmed for not being around during moot's era

>>11557696
>actually defending media whores

Do you give donations to prostitutes too?

All non-marxists vacate this board

>>11554457
So what you're saying is it's a spook.

Communism is always and forever #fragile

Eugenics is the only meaningful pursuit of human existence.

>>11558908
No

>>11557026
aight fag, its a good thing you've been raised to think any gubberment activity is socialist, or, i'd think you're too brain dead for even a 'BRAINLET' rebuttal
The economy is capitalism through and through, Capital is invested to make Capital, the Commodity form is reinforced and wages are paid for labour, only a brain-dead faggot cuck couldnt see that shit.
The simple fact is that you don't want to see capitalism for the functional system it is, you're entirely devoid of it from a lifetime of propaganda against it

>>11555416
is Venezuela really that much more financially dependent on oil than Saudi Arabia? isn't the real distinction that one has western favor and the other animosity?
What happens if the US loses the favor of the west? Trump is certainly working hard to hat end.

>Ctrl+F value
>Ctrl+F surplus
>Ctrl+F labor power
>Ctrl+F means of production
>Ctrl+F alienation
>Ctrl+F commodity production
Seriously, has no one here fucking read Marx? I bet no one here even knows what C-M-C and M-C-M means.

>>11559069
Communism-marx-communism and marx-communism-marx, brainlet

>>11559069
C-M-C = Cum in-My-Crack
M-C-M = My-Cum is for-Milfs

>>11557585
What's more unnatural than thinking you're safe in a universe almost completely inhospitable to life?
Is it natural for an animal that is evolved to take on dozens of strong social bonds per-person so that the species as a network can be immensely more powerful (in an evolutionary context) via cooperation.... to then decide to partition itself with a multitude of trustless systems, distancing themselves from even having to trust anyone: the core function of their social evolution.

Yo honest question. Does anyone in this thread think that our lack of understanding of Dasein is what holds socialism/communism back from actually strengthening human potentiality since it was formulated as part of the western cannon (especially from Hegel?) Has anyone since Heidegger actually formulated a political system from phenomenological ontology? I know the meme answer is Nazism but it's clear that at a certain point Heidegger considered Nazism one of the three ideologies that would lead the world to ruination alongside Capitalism and Communism. Does Heidegger's critique of technology lead to a form of anarcho-primitivism or could it be theorised as similar to Bookchin's social ecology?

>>11553119
Marxism will never happen, even according to Marx himself. We're in a post-industrial society which Marx didn't foresee, a society that by his admission cannot transition into communism, and that's a problem that really starts to chip away at his writings. A short list of issues would sum out to be...
>Oversimplified and untimely incorrect historicity
>A naive to negligent conception of human nature
>Total inability to do any kind of math

There's more I can add on, but you can probably see why this stuff has become so attractive to people. Narrative is easier to consume than facts.
ProTip: To any college anon's have a professor that won't stop sucking Marx off ask them "Are you a member of the union?" and watch their head spin.

>>11559153
If only all the counter-revolutionaries could be so self-assured and uninformed at the same time. The revolution would be mostly over.

Threads like these demonstrate how effective a pleb filter economics is.

>>11559208
But economics is one of the pseudiest majors around.
At my school, a top ranked business school in the States, they give you a copy of Atlas Shrugged when you get admitted. How ridiculous is that?

>>11554511
hell yes brother

>>11558723
ChristBol is the right way to go.

>>11559264
Cathbol even better

>>11559268
You know what's funny I had a conversation the other day with some actual Catholics who aren't chan larpers trying to do Nazi recruitment and they all agreed we should tax churches like businesses, even the old Catholics.

Christianity is about to be extinct.
Good riddance. We need to destroy organized religion before we can move on to the new idol, state.

>>11559197
No argument
>>11559216
Firstly, name the university. Second, modern economics has a much greater predictive power than anything that's ever come out of Marx, Marxists or communist countries. Point blank. If you want to be a real revolutionary, start doing math that demonstrates the predictive power of your thought. The future is algorithmic.

>>11559216
Very ridiculous, like a lot of the US education system.
I have never heard of such a book being given to freshmen; most of my freshman course besides the mathematics was teaching people how to grapple with the main points of the classical liberals on matters of trade, and the Keynesians on the role of domestic institutions.

>>11559278
Nah, I'm good. You wouldn't be accepted anyway.
Do you mean how they predicted that a largely nationalized economy like China's would have much faster growth for a longer period of time than in any primarily privatized economy? Or how a nationalized economy would end up being more successful in the end?
Or did you mean that being able to phrase your theory in terms of variables makes it more legitimate?

You also don't understand what an algorithm is, but don't let me interrupt your Californian startup culture cocksucking sesh.

>>11559216
>top ranked business school
>hands out copies of Atlas Shrugged, an incredibly simply-written, poorly designed document incapable of even generating a slight amount of philosophical insight, and one of whose foundations is literally ‘no taxes EVAR’.

What is the point of going to a school that hands out this garbage. If they handed out The Road to Serfdom they would get more respect from me and everyone else, but handing out Atlas Shrugged is just retarded

>>11559296
Unfortunately it is one of the most influential books of all time. Even if you hate it I can see why you should read it and understand it. It kind of is a capitalist bible in a weird sense, if you want to understand the world you have to understand Atlas Shrugged as disturbing as that is.

>>11559294
>Won't name the uni
I highly doubt you're telling the truth. And the capitulation to ad hominem confirms it for me.

>China
>Nationalized
>China
Let's see, a country that allows the ownership of private property and highly encourages private entrepreneurship is nationalized? A country whose lion share of GDP comes from private companies? Or do you mean their manipulation of currency (which the US does as well) which has led them to industrialization? Either way you cut it, it's not nationalized, at least compared to a place like Venezuela which nationalized the one thing that drew profit.

>You also don't understand what an algorithm is
Name me one Marxist who does. I'll wait.

>>11559377
Okay, well the price for your disbelief can be continued ignorance. I don't really care what you believe or disbelieve.

China's public sector is larger than the private sector. I'm sure you won't understand this either since you can't be bothered to look up basic facts and need people to spoonfeed you the name of their Alma Mater and economics that you seem to believe yourself an expert in with no training or expertise to speak of.

I'm a Marxist with a compsci minor and I aced the AI survey. Do you want to get into the shit about big O notation, A*, search complexity, the traveling salesman, and mergesort now too?

You're not paying me to educate you, so if you don't have something valuable to contribute or start posting with some basic sense of respect, you shouldn't expect a reply.

>>11557349
>(((Bloomberg)))

>>11559398
>Okay, well the price for your disbelief can be continued ignorance. I don't really care what you believe or disbelieve.
And yet here's another (You) for me. But this one's kinda sweet because you're utilizing what the religious say. "Believe, don't question or your punishment will be damnation of 'ignorance'". Ridiculous that you actually typed that out and didn't realize it.
>China's public sector is larger than the private sector.
You didn't respond to my point. The majority of their GDP is generated from the private sector. This is very important because GDP is the definition of economic growth or recession.
>I'm a Marxist
So do you support unions?
>with a compsci minor
Holy fuck, this has to be a troll job. 10 on 10 if it is. Literally laughed out loud. Effin CS.
>start posting with some basic sense of respect
Projecting this hard. You're the one who started using ad hominem. Hell, you utilized classism to put me down too. Not very Marxist of you now is it.

Who else here agrees with basically everything Marx says but just hates collectivism and doesn't care for the wellbeing of most people?

>>11559523
I feel that way, but I'd never be a communist. Violence, alienation and exploitation being so native to the material world and its conscious manifestations is why we should blow Earth up, communism is a feeble remedy to a deeper issue.

>>11554160
>environment
Yeah, when Marx said capitalism will fail I doubt he realized it would fail and take the planet with it.