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11547198 No.11547198 [Reply] [Original]

What are your thoughts on Confessions? I'm planning to go through Augustine's major works, such as Confessions and, afterwards, City of God.
I'm preparing myself reading The Bible beforehand, but which books are essential before diving into his Confessions? Also, which Plato's dialogues are interesting to have a grasp before reading Augustine?

>> No.11547230

>>11547198
>which books are essential before diving into his Confessions
The Bible. Some kind of historical knowledge of the early Christians and their heresies. I would say Plotinus is essential because Augustine quite literally plagiarized from him in some paragraphs of theology. Used to have a comparison pic, maybe I can find it. Guys like Tertullian and Philo are useful but maybe not essential depending on how deep you want to go.

>which Plato's dialogues are interesting to have a grasp before reading
Timaeus.

Approach Augustine carefully. Don't believe the hype. Remember that he was influenced greatly by Neoplatonism and pagan religion before adopting Christianity, and his works changed Christianity and not always for the better.

>> No.11547241

For "historical knowledge" again it depends on how deep you want to go but I can recommend Harnack's Marcion. It's a small but dense read about the Marcionites and their rather gnostic view of Christ being without a true physical body. Early Christian beliefs were all atumble and it was many decades before questions like these were settled. You may also want Kurt Rudolph's Gnosis, to better understand Augustine's earlier beliefs.

>> No.11547426

>>11547230
This dude gets it.

>> No.11547448

>>11547230
do you have a reading list for anons interested in theology?

>> No.11547890
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11547890

>>11547448
It is important to note that histories and philosophy are important for developing our mystical relation to Christ first, and settling curiosity about the Church second. You may find your faith increases as you learn.

>The Old Testament and New Testament
Goes without saying, but saying anyway. The NT was divinely inspired and assembled by man. Understanding it brings us to a greater harmony with Christ by helping us to imitate Him.

>Aristotle's Organon, then later Physics and Ethics
The medieval Scholastics and them were Aristotelians, and Aquinas builds his Summa arguments from Aristotle, frequently referring to him like he does Scripture. Organon is where Aristotle invented the tools of careful thinking.

>Plato's Timaeus and Republic
Platonism is the other half of Christianity's philosophical heritage. Republic for a few reasons but primarily for learning the Form of the Good, which will be associated with Christ (the Logos), love, and God. Timaeus is mostly cosmology, but Plotinus built off it.

>Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews
Josephus was a Jewish rebel who was captured and sent to Rome, freed, then returned to Jerusalem as a Roman historian. Documented the first century in Judea. Corroborates events of the New Testament.

>The Apostolic Fathers
Includes the Didache, from the first century, one of the earliest texts we have that resembles and represents the doctrine the Church would hold. Also epistles of Clement of Rome, Ignatius, etc. These are the guys immediately after the 12 apostles of Christ.

>Plotinus' Enneads
Rather important, I think he's crucial. Pic related: DO NOT miss his essay On Beauty*. A lot of what he says here goes on to inform Augustine and Aquinas. Especially the trichotomy of the One, the Intellect, and the Soul.

>Aquinas' Summa Theologica
:FatalAustism: of the best sort. I'm still chewing on this. Aquinas grapples with great questions of causes, will, sin, ethics, perfection, beauty, etc.

>Bonaventure
Franciscan mystic and contemporary of Aquinas who wrote The Journey of the Mind to God and The Tree of Life. Compare to Galatians 5's fruit of the Holy Spirit.

>a Kempis' The Imitation of Christ
Meant for people entering religious life, but the latter part of the book explains Imitatio Dei, an official position of the Catholic church and probably the easiest way of understanding our relationship to Christ as a species and individuals.

>Kittel's Theological Dictionary of the New Testament
Ten volumes that break down the Greek words used in the LXX, their Hebrew etymology and usage in the OT, and explains context and word meanings. An encyclopedia of ancient vocabulary and a must.

>Via Pulchritudinis*
Ayyy, remember Plotinus essay On Beauty? Guess who took the ball and ran with it in the 21st century. The Vatican. Pulchritude is ofc of Latin extraction and means beauty. Via means way.

There are a bunch more, Origen and them, and Neo-Thomists, that I haven't read at all.

>> No.11547908

Dunno how things will turn out for you OP, but The Confessions bore me to death whereas I found the City of God both very surprising and interesting. Good luck.

>> No.11547914

>>11547198
Read Confessions before the Bible.
He mostly cites the Pauline epistles.

If you are/were an atheists, then definitely read Confessions first.