/lit/ - Literature

>>11539130
>This is what Hegel did: for the first time in the history of philosophy thought gazed at its own gazing, Mind became the self-seeing eye
Why are Germans so autistic like this? Eastern philosophy had this covered and just explained it by splashing a pond a bit.

Hegel (together with Zizek) is one of the philosophers of the tsimtsum, the agonic non-all that opens within God to make room for Being: the breach that opens as the paradoxical drive to heal itself, like thunder trying to quiet lightning. The infinite must limit itself to make room for finitude. Spirit for Hegel is what clots the wound of duality by denying it: what is divided is the whole with itself, not two wholes together, and Spirit is the mediation of this gap. Christ signified the dawn of self-consciousness in the multitude: the solar stock becomes diluted through the mass (the reign of quantity, literally the "splashing out" of the quality concentrated in the axis into the plane of the last men). Modern hatred of elitism is a product of this diffusion: the parts of the social body that played the roles analogous to the hands and feet in the functioning of the system, now laugh at what used the pretensions of the Head, the recognition of a transcendent - and not merely transcendental - element in man. Acephalic revolt. Negroid throttle throb swimming up out of a polluted Svadhishthana. The little head usurping the big head: short-term pleasures are dopamine hits, exemplified by the orgasm, this is why stories that are generic follow a generic plot structure: they're following the bildungsroman of foreplay and orgasm. Serotonin is something higher. Hegel's phenomenology is the bildungsroman of consciousness. Negation is the only pure movement. Stars are Schelling's spirit: fires that burn themselves for fuel. Stars emit energy unilaterally because global equilibriation of energy is faster that way: heat death is the exhale, but the process of universal death is also what is responsible for daylight, birds, water. Light is the absence of darkness. This is what Hegel meant by God being just what dispels the illusion that something is supposed to be missing. Spirit always gets up and dusts itself off because the movement that it is compels it to. Hostage to its own drive, Spirit is ontological Stockholm Syndrome. How do you let go of letting go? By death, self-erasure: death replenishes the spontaneity of the absolute. Spirit is the guarantee that - for and through God alone - suicide always entails rebirth. I know you out there. Whose souls are still flammable. Reading Proclus to Trippie Red. I know you. And these nights of grace

heat death ecological spontaniety. nice ring to it

>>11539165
the West just takes the scenic route to the same realization

bump

OP, you have faith in Christ, and the word of the Lord?

I have faith in your word, but to you, do you see life still becoming?

>>11539130
>>11539188
posting in cursed thread. put me in the screencap.

>>11539130
>Hegel wanted to break out of the Kantian straitjacket of the subject
Absolutely twisted dude. The inmates are out of the friggin asylum!!!

>>11539130
>>11539188
cool post bro but you misspelled auto differentiation (two words), non-predictability, and equilibration. Hope you have a nice day! :)

>>11539130

Intelligence itself is the great filter, self propelled problem solving-generating dialectic reflecting entropy, reaching equilibrium only when the final strata of techno-capital progression merc's off the entire human population.

>>11539188
>tfw you vacillate the semblances

ohh boy i love effort posting. you are one cool guy.
>the pre-representational ground of representation is a hollow void, and the ring of subject-object codependency tightens
isnt the, "pre representational ground of representation" the object? thats what Peirce said and im pretty sure he was right

>>11540526
>pre-representational ground of representation

It would be the absolute ''subject''. The subject that is its object is self referencing and self representing-- nothing.

>>11540526
or by, 'the pre-representational ground of representation' were you referring to the space in which the object first appeared before the moment of representation came to pass?
i might agree with that being a hollow space, but not really because it is a hollow space with the potential for something to happen, this potential takes the form of a hollow space, an efficacious absence. If the space was truly hollow surely nothing could be grounded inside of it. the hollow space must be given its potential and thus its form in relation to its surroundings, the life, which creates these hollow spaces for itself to explore.

>>11540571
this is why i like firstness secondness and thirdness, and the corresponding sign relation better. Peirce got representation the most right
i dont wanna read hegel and give my brain a boo-boo, YOU CANT GROUND SOMETHING IN NOTHING WTF HOW IS THAT SUPPOSED TO WORK TELL ME

>>11539130
Do you sleep ok? I get anxious trying to go to sleep

>>11540593

>pre-representational ground of representation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shikantaza

>>11540593
''I am owner of my power, and I am so when I know myself as unique.
In the unique the owner himself returns into his creative nothing,
from which he is born. Every higher essence over me, be it God, be
it the human being, weakens the feeling of my uniqueness, and only
pales before the sun of this awareness. If I base my affair on myself,
the unique, then it stands on the transient, the mortal creator, who
consumes himself, and I may say:
I have based my affair on nothing.''

>>11540599
not me i have to take all kinds off pills and im still not looking forward to shutting off the computer and going to bed. i have to be up at 745 and its 1. here i am posting about Peirce, i do hard labor and run dangerous equipmentall day, i need 8 hoursw, i guess i will take another ambein and a benedryl, im just going to wake up at 4:30 with unexplained stress, like i do every morning, then at 6my dog will lick my face when he sees im up and i will open my door for him to go shit. oddly this is the only time im ever truly stressed without coming off of adderall
i think its because im wasting my potential by not going to school or doing anything academic like im inclined for, i also recently started to cynically care about im finances and becoming wealthy and this making money is 04qcng me, i dont mind the workl but this money money money is drreadful.
i wish i could walk naround the forest looking at the flora y fuana all day like i used to, i could have done that today but i sat in bed most of the time.

>>11540654
Last night I tried praying and meditating, I think it worked a little bit--don't drink to sleep that'll fuck you up. pls live and write books

>>11540375
No, its non-predicability, not non-predictability, that makes no sense in that context

>>11540526
Kinda what Aristotle says about the intellect - it has to be empty of content if content is to inhere in it. My self can't be another object in the field of objects, precisely because it is that field itself we're trying to cognize (which ultimately we can only cognize as our cognizing: Kant says the ego or the "I think" can never be some determinate thing, because it is the determining principle as such)

God doesn't real lmao

we live in a phenomenology

http://www.anti-dialectics.co.uk/
>http://www.anti-dialectics.co.uk/
http://www.anti-dialectics.co.uk/
>http://www.anti-dialectics.co.uk/
http://www.anti-dialectics.co.uk/
>http://www.anti-dialectics.co.uk/
http://www.anti-dialectics.co.uk/

>>11539130
>>11539188
based Gnosisposter

superb quality

>>11539188
>tfw I suddenly have the urge to read more and get big brained enough to understand what the fuck your talking about
I will not be a pseud for long, enlightenment here I come

>>11539130
Yep, and fuck this fucking Kali Yuga that we live in, yet I wholeheartedly appreciate the mere existence of this era of and from the perspective of every scale, precession, cosmos, metaphysics and iur mere human lives to be able to shitpost on the highest levels of self-comprehension and self-surpassing infallibility.

>>11541529
Lotta Zizek, Hegel, Kant, mysticism, Schelling, god I don't even know what else I was dipping into there

>>11540593
actually hegel would say it's precisely only in the Nothing that anything can be grounded, but it'd require an exposition of nearly his whole system for that to stick.

can you rec any good stuff on Peirce?

>>11540290
I respect Christ but Christianity is a debased religion. Besides its luminaries (Augustine, Eckhart, Aquinas, Boehme, Weil, etc.) and certain books (Job and Ecclesiastes, Isaiah and the Gospels), the East does it much better.

>>11542473
its a shame then that their philosophy is the rough equivalent to "ooga booga" then

>>11542555
lol nah dude

>dude all previous philosophers weren't exactly wrong but carried grains of truth that over time got more pure

what a hack

>>11542687
more like, thought is such a way that this could not not be the case

>>11541484
I thought gnosis was supposed to feel good

Nothing vindicates or is vindicates by spirituality. Religious consolations are antithetical to the goal of religion as such: man's overcoming of conditionality. Dependency is determination: I'll be motivated to act differently if Im counting on God to square the books in the end. God just is his self-recognition within his almighty absence, performed by the subject: Eckhart's God is John Wheeler's universe that observes itself as it creates itself, witnesses itself into being. I was going somewhere with this: spirituality as escape must be radically de-thematized. Metaphysics and religion is the sublimation precisely adequate to the genetic cripples of a darwinian, thermodynamic universe. The weakling creates this manifold according to his need, burrows into vacuoles inaccessible to the common run, turns his void into its own justification. All he has to do is be there. Mysticism is giving up on everything but the fact that you are, and learning to act within that awareness. Reconciling yourself to your own closure. Becoming like a body whose soul terminates at the skin: your thought will stray no further. You are free now. You are the one who cut his own strings. How unlike you then, with the long-eared wallflowers of the world. What is impossibility on one plane is actuality in another. Hegel said necessity is the condition of its own freedom: if there are laws there must be the rest that just is enlightened conformity with these laws: wu wei. Determination saturated by the abyss of I = I. Bataille said the stars that once used filled with us with so much wonder now glare back at us with cold necessity. Only a species in denial of these Laws could feel them chafe. Buddhism is enlightened causality. Death is the only test.

>>11539165
Umm sweetie who is Plato and Pyrrho? Keep stealing from the Seleucids and Indo-Greeks you'll get there someday hunny.

>>11539188
Now senpai you are ready for the final boss of philosophy:
Eriugena
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/scottus-eriugena/

Consciousness is the primordial void introjected into matter. the groundlessness of freedom is the non-predicability of the void: the Night of the cogito is pure abstract indeterminacy, the body its concretion. Certain mysterianists (like Colin McGinn) think consciousness could be related to the state that "preceded" the Big Bang, being timeless and without extension. In the Hindu creation myth the Prince/Son slays the Father/Dragon and builds the universe out of his "body": matter is petrified energy. But the Prince, lacking the power to create, swallows the heart of the Dragon, and earns the power and spontaneity of consciousness, that supernal element which never descends into full determination: the empty cogito, the bird that watches.

>>11543017
thanks mane I'll check him out

>>11543017
based

>>11539130
>>11539188
how do you develop a writing style like this

>>11543758
lots of philosophy and weed

>>11541398
fuck u got me

>>11539130
>>11539188
the pepe addition made me laugh

Can someone pls help a brainlet out and sum this this thread up?

>>11540330

>>11543861
History of Ideas is littered with the fingerprints of a real abstract kind of Illuminati, thread is higher order archaeology.

>>11539130
>Kant will never sail the sea that haunts him
what a permavirgin

>>11543861
I could post the entry-level version but I like how this guy put it >>11544027

>>11544027
>>11545352
When I read it I got a picture of the inherent negativity of existence, two mirrors in a pattern of self-reflection creates the world of mind. To create this world a rift must be created in the unity of the absolute, like slicing your grilled cheese in half and pulling it apart. Our experience only exists in the breakage of the stringy cheese as it separates, an aberration in eternal totality. From this I was contemplating the Kantian subject who can only find himself, a reflection, in the experience of the world of objects. From the logic of the Kantian subject, god cannot be found and the boundary between the subject-object becomes blurred, thus our subject must build god through Capitalism in order to restore the sacred privilege of the subject above the object, paradoxically creating the instrument of its own destruction. As an alternative Hegel posits a world of pure feedback, emanating from the subject building a life-world within pure negation. Am I on the right track or am I a hopelessly lost?

>>11545391
You're on the money, but a few caveats: just because capitalism can create a god doesn't mean it should be created. It's also not being consciously created, its just a runaway consequence of the Kantian delimitation of the subject (among other things). Hegel's more about: thought is something being, the world, does through the subject, the subject does not have a monopoly on cognition, because he is being's cognition (of itself).

Substance is Subject. Hegel paradoxically breaks the subject out of the straitjacket while simultaneously tightening the chain of Thought, totally immanentizing God: God isn't transcendent to the Whole, he just is the whole's self-relating, God as both = x and that which pronounces God being = x (the Subject). God is an internal production of himself. In a sense Hegel is a bit more wholesome than Kant, but accusing either of being somehow responsible for these things is simplistic, there's just causes and effects.

>>11539130
>>11539165
That's great and all, but a lot of good this knowledge will do ya. Good luck with whatever. Try not to kill yourself.

>>11546176
>if you're not producing anything its useless

The spirit

He destroyed his cage

Yes

YES

The spirit is in

>>11539188
>Hostage to its own drive, Spirit is ontological Stockholm Syndrome. How do you let go of letting go? By death, self-erasure: death replenishes the spontaneity of the absolute. Spirit is the guarantee that - for and through God alone - suicide always entails rebirth.

yes

>>11539130
Would you happen to have a reading list? I’ve read basic philosophy, Lacan, Marx and stuff but I lack direction and perspective.

>>11547146
Depends on what you're looking for, if the stuff in the OP interests you I'd read: Zizek (Less Than Nothing), Schelling (Ages of the World/Essence of Human Freedom), Land (Fanged Noumena, lotta of the Kant stuff came from there), Crowley (his more metaphysical/kabbalistic works like Book of Lies), Shestov (Athens & Jerusalem), and Plotinus, Proclus, Uzdavinys

>>11547146
>>11547285
Also Hegel, of course, but mainly secondary sources if you're just starting out: just Google "Hegel [topic of interest] pdf" and tons of papers will come up. Amazing the shit you'll find just googling "Hegel negativity pdf" or "Hegel absolute knowing pdf"

>>11547285
>>11547289
>>11547285
>>11547289
Thanks anon. The advice with the secondary sources is new to me. How do I differentiate between reliable and less academic papers generally?
Also who are some good writers to read before Hegel and Land? They seem the most complex and I usually have difficulty fully understanding any writers from the Idealist, postmodern etc traditions. They seem to require so much context or perhaps a certain kind of perspective.

>>11547725
Man don't worry about what's reliable or not, once you've got enough hours under your belt you can tell whose full of shit and who isn't just from their writing level.

I'd read the introductory portions to hegel's history of philosophy (https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/hp/hpconten.htm)), he's extremely lucid there. keep in mind hegel isn't really talking about Spirit goosestepping through pre-determined historical progress like some of the more textbook readings would have you believe, his ideas are more subtle than that.

as for Land read Thirst for Annihilation.

>>11547755
Okay, I’ll read that material first then. I was also wondering if you have any advice on general reading material around philosophy since one seems to require a foundational knowledge in everything from history to mathematics, biology to econ etc. Is this simply a journey one takes or do you have any advice/resources concerning building a solid knowledge foundation?

>>11547840
you just start with what interests you. forget this meme chart, you need to read this, you need to read that shit. if you read aristotle before everyone else, great, if you read him after, he'll be that much more profound for you, so the question is a pointless one, you're never "finished" with a philosopher. you really have to get used to floating in a sea of information and resigning yourself to the hunt for pearls, there'll never, ever be a list that condenses terabytes of philosophical information into a couple dozen books and papers

just start reading what you're into, google shit that authors mention that interests you, read that shit, and on it goes. follow your interest, drop books that are boring you, and i mean patrician boredom, not "wahhh this is all unfalsifiable gibberish" pseud boredom, im talking "im on chapter 10 and this book still hasn't given me that rush of gnosis i live for" type of boredom. that said, though, the big guys like Plato, Aristotle, Kant, Hegel, etc. if you decide to read them, read them slowly, deliberately, savor their thought

>>11546017
Do you think this can be related to Bataille? I recently read the accursed share and there was a great passage about people trying to retain a sacred separation from the profane world of production. Once we became intelligence enough to use tools, living transformed into work and the man using a tool just becomes a means to an end. Bataille thinks our plunge into the world of the profane has influenced sacrifice, potlach and industrial society however his chapter on Tibetan Monasticism is interesting. He mentions that instead of sacrifice and aggressive expansion, Tibetan’s use their excess to cultivating their monastic traditions. A country invades and believes to have seized power but the real power lies in their monasteries which remain unchanged, confident in the fact that their current conquerors will soon self-destruct. Bataille references Calvinism as the ideology behind capitalism however the same could be said for Kant’s subject. Hegel on the other hand presents a world of inner-experience, consciousness positing itself etc. So could it be said that Kant’s subject and Hegel’s subject could follow the same laws of excess as industrial society and monastic society. Excess should be directed towards inner experience and not forced into the world?

>>11547983
yeah that's exactly it, in some ways Spirit is just enlightened expenditure of excess (Hegel wouldn't put that way probably but with Bataillian reading of Hegel sure), that's what I mean by letting our ontological gut hang re: capitalism, instead of improving ourselves as a species we just want flashier vidya and tastier burgers. we hate empty time, especially when it's bracketed by work and everyday bullshit: find me someone who resists the urge to unwind and let off that excess in unproductive ways day in and day out working a shit job with shit hours and I'll find you a saint. instead of keeping experience tight to our chest we let it just sag out, we're just too tired not to do otherwise, who the fuck's gonna ask a single mom working two jobs to embark on the journey of the Self? it's not so much she doesn't want to spend that excess that way as much as it is she is always-already spent

>>11543758
Read tons of *German* philosophy. They all start talking like this at one time or another.

Can someone give me a quick rundown on Hegel and his followers? I cannot ever tell if they are just mystics because they drop in and out of my comprehension by the vowel.

>>11548227
Hegel's system is the discursive elaboration of mysticism and religion. If mysticism is the Zen enso circle - the simple, empty circle - Hegel's system is that Whole spiraling in on itself

>>11548050
Damn dude I started off not knowing what the hell you were on about but I forced myself to understand. I feel like I should probably read some Hegel.

>>11548490
Read some Hegel through Zizek, Rebecca Comay, and Catherine Malabou. Primary sources might bore you stiff if you're just looking for the kind of stuff posted in this thread.

>>11539130
What's a carburetor and what does it do?

>>11548507
Which Zizek stuff would you specifically recommend? Is Less Than Nothing a good start?

>>11548687
If you can handle Less Than Nothing you can handle anything Zizek throws at you.

I also legit recommend weed not in a dude weed lmao way but as a tool to give you that shift in perspective the mind needs to jostle itself out of rigid thought patterns it doesn't even know its locked in. I wrote every post in this thread high as a kite.

>>11548733
I might have to find a different drug, weed makes me stupid as shit. I definitely couldn't have written all that stuff if I was baked.

>>11539188
I understand what you are saying, but not why you chose to say it this way. Don't you think it would be more effective to convince people to try and develop an intuitive understanding of these concepts through their own experience, via mindfulness, rather than try and filter such a broad understanding through something as functional as language?

>>11548829
i'd have to write at least a dozen posts and edit them dozen times to try and get them across half as evocatively as I feel them, im not really interested in helping others play catch-up, im happy to answer questions but the ones who are not only not receptive to any of the ideas discussed in this thread (and many others on /lit/ im not some obscure) but also mock them you can't do anything about

but you're totally right mindfulness and contemplation gets you there, no one's interested in reading a to-do list from some fuckboy on 4chan tho

>>11539130
>>11539188
I know I'm just giving you the (you)'s you so desperately desire, but this actually makes me so irrationally angry that I can't help myself. Great work.

>>11548858
why's it make you angry?

>>11546857
The Geist

The objects others its other

Yes

YES

The Knowing is Absolute

Alright men and women of /lit/. I'll share some wisdom to put your heads back on straight.

We are prone to contradictions because of duality. Duality arises from the perceptions of our physical form which we always encompass. We have two hands through which we interact with our environment. Two legs that enable mobility. In standing still we are aware we are stagnant. In walking we are pushing off a solid place and falling onto a solid place, the shifting of weight being the transitory stage of thought. It is the most abstract stage of thought which only those well versed in physical fitness can capture its wisdom. There are those who were able to surmount the contradictions of thought, however, they become obsessed. We hail them as geniuses and prophets and philosophers. To capture the beauty in nature and humanity and elucidate and communicate it to others is a feat only possible if an agreement is made between those crafting the elucidation, and those who wish for phenomena to be elucidated.

Now stop smoking Hegel and do some softer drugs.

>>11548816
>weed makes me stupid as shit
I gots news for ya pal..

I am going to start using amphetamines and get a ripped body

>>11549475
Don't do it. Amphetamines are central nervous system stimulants. Some curb appetite.

You need a combination of nutrition and a good lifting routine. Practice proper form. Don't lift for ego.

Wine tastes better with time.

>>11549499
i have adhd and cant concentrate and have the need2read

>>11549610
I have ADHD too. It's hard work anon but the discipline to be gained from walking this road is worthwhile.

Try this for a month and see if you don't notice any changes.
Just some ground rules:
1. Same bedtime and wakeup everyday
2. Balanced diet - no soda/bullshit snacks
3. Begin learning a language.
4. Spend 30 minutes in nature meditating. Let the external stimuli flow in and let your mind go free, but be mindful of where it goes.
5. Create a schedule, even if you don't need one
6. Do not watch porn.
7. Limit use of technology
8. Do not watch tv

Report back in a month and I bet you will make some crucial personal discoveries. Best of luck lest you quit before your trial.

>>11548050
Hegel: the constipated subject
Bataille: the shitting subject

>>11551223
Kant: the constipated subject
Hegel: the shitting subject
Bataille: the blumpkin fetishist

>>11539165
Germans tried to explain it without resorting to zen analogies