/lit/ - Literature

>>11536124
Because the flaws on modern-day capitalism are so apparent and so paramount that unless your goal is to specifically spell out the countless reasons why it's fucked, you can safely get away with just saying that it is.

>>11536135
this. the bloating of capitalism to ~a way of life~ is so inherently ridiculous that even a layman doesn't need it explained to them, they know the artificial aftertaste and casual cruelty of it from living it.

>>11536124

It's just solipsistic resentment.

>>11536135
>>11536167
pretty much case in point

>>11536124
Because for all its flaws, it's still better than any alternative. What would these writers want to replace it with? No, best to just make fun of it rather than actually try to get rid of it.

>>11536124
It always wins

>>11536167
good post

>>11537719
t. redd*t teenager whose YT suggestions go something like this:
ben shapiro OBLITERATES trans woman
jordan peterson EMBARASSES lib
10 celebs that HATE PC culture

>>11537719
>communism is bad, therefore capitalism is fine as is

>>11537743
How would you fix capitalism, then?

>>11537751
Muh scandinavia model

>>11536124
>they are poorly educated, with no critical thinking skills
>they have zero journalistic skills
>they have a great sense of self entitlement
>they have no understanding of economics as a whole, much less capitalism
>most are on the payroll of propaganda mills, and are regurgitating political points of view

>>11537751
>he thinks you can fix the Kali Yuga
get your totems and tigers in order bucko

>>11537751
Distributism.

>>11537719
no it isn't lmao.

Marxism and socialism were massively popular among the intelligentsia during the 20th century. When these projects failed, they were abandoned, but the anti-capitalist culture and its emotional component remained. Note the incredible vitriol and rage which is evoked when it is suggested on /lit/ that maybe capitalism is a good thing. People who suggest this are generally regarded as naive and hence non-intellectual.

Anyways, modern writers speak of capitalism only with snark because they want to virtue-signal to other writers that they don't like capitalism, or they still have feelings of hatred towards it, but everyone knows that it would be a waste of time to actually launch an assault on capitalism, either because they know that all the alternatives are worse, or they know that the capitalist hegemony is impossible to overturn.

>>11537800
>When these projects failed
they didn't. Marxist Leninism may have failed, Communism and Socialism haven't overall. The ideology isn't even as old as Capitalism was prior to the bourgeois revolutions that took down Feudalism.

>>11537800
This. If you arent centre right or left you are a subhuman.

>>11537751
Eugenics solves all problems

>>11537800
This.

>>11537779
As much as I dislike Evola, this post is still correct.

>>11537800
communism succeeds every time the state fails because capitalism simply cannot exist without state power to facilitate it.
it's not that capitalism is B A D or state power is W R O N G it's simply that they're unnatural and everyone can feel it.

>>11536124
Fascism is the only way. It is what has worked better in history, just look at Germany before war.

Communism is the only way. It is what has worked better in history, just look at the soviet union pre-1989

>>11538259
100.000.000 were killed because of communism. You can' t say that about fascism.

>>11537719
Yeah my husband beating the shit out of me is bad, but the alternative is to have no husband so its okay, I guess...

>>11538284
Sure I can, just like you said it about communism.
100.000.000 were killed because of fascism. You can' t say that about communism.
See how easy that was?

Good critique requires defining terms, and nobody wants to bother specifying what actions and policies they're talking about. Everyone agrees that the West is generally capitalist, so everything that falls under their purview is capitalist. Now we don't have to actually work towards understanding, we can just fall into the same tribal "debate" ruts we've become comfortable with.

>>11537800
This is a terrible take; lots of socialist dislike capitalism but rarely 'launch an assault' on it because they know it is not developed enough to fail on its own merits.

>>11538186
You have it completely opposite, communism can only work under state power and capitalism would flourish without it. Do you think that without a government the people who own resources would just share them out? No, they’d hire mercs, start a milita, etc to protect their position. Just think about the East India Company.

>>11538303
You can continue with your mental gymnastics but that will not take away the facts.
In China under the rule of Mao more than 30.000 humans died due to war and starvation. In the USSR died over 50.000 and much more people suffered in the claws of communism.

>>11537719
Unironically based and redpilled

>>11538333
>You have it completely opposite, communism can only work under state power and capitalism would flourish without it.
nice digits brainlet.
i wont even bother to refute the nonsense of claiming communism requires a state beyond pointing you to the definition which requires it be stateless to even be called 'communism'.

rather i'd like you explain to me how your ancap paradise is going to work without any communally accepted currency? without communally respected law and enforcement of property rights?

>the East India Company.
literally a state funded.

>>11538337
>cappalism dindu nuffin
by your same concepts of ideological culpability, capitalism is the most efficient murderer of any ideology ever, including religions.

Every communist i ever met was a fucking fag. Just a straight up fucking fag.

>>11538430
good argument

>>11538430
everyones a communist in a natural disaster.
everyones a fag sometimes.

>>11538430
Summer

>>11538419
I believe fascism is the only true way of achieveing a perfect state. Thus I am a fascist and I actually detest capitalism and communism.
And yes religions have murdered tons of people and should be vanished.

>>11536124
What exactly do these people mean by "capitalism?' They never adequately define this term, or if forced to, they just retreat to vague generalities.

Pro-tip: If you're arguing against capitalism, just strawman them into defending Ayn Rand-esque free-market retardation. If you're arguing in favor of capitalism, make them attack neoliberalism from the perspective of the US/EU (i.e. make them explain why the countries that benefit economically from capitalism ought to oppose this). Then they're fucked.

Is there a debate online about political economy where the terms are actually defined and both sides are intellectually honest?

it sucks but any alternatives lack the strength to succeed post ussr so any disagreement is reduced to contemporary navel-gazing or alternative candidates who have to compromise anyways

>>11538466
>political
>honest

go into physics if you want a conclusion to be valid and sound desu

>>11538466
Good luck getting capitalists of all shade to determine what kind of capitalism is happening right now then we will talk.

>>11538419
>Easily preventable

Kek not really. Them not being preventable because of profits is true though. But these areas even with these problems are growing exponentially. No amount of socialism will prevent this or stop the death.

>>11537800
Because capitalism is obviously not a good thing, this ship is sinking fast and there hasn’t been any reforms made to the system prior to the 2008 crash.

>>11538464
Facism is dumb too, the only instances of it have failed completely. It’s just an idealistic monarchy which somehow thinks you can progress technologically and scientifically with progressing socially

>>11538627
The difference is that they did not fall by their own weight, the civil wars exterminated those fascist nations.
Monarchy? It would be better to compare it with an aristocracy.
Social progress will lead to other kinds of progress eventually.

>>11538484
:( I fear you're right, but perhaps if the discussion gets philosophical and abstract enough we can mitigate this

>>11538507
Yeah... There was a survey released a while ago that showed most millennials prefer socialism to capitalism. I remember talking to a friend of mine about how that wasn't really that surprising, since by "socialism" most young people mean "a strong social safety net and reasonable economic regulation" (regardless of whether that's a good thing or not), and by "capitalism" most young people mean laissez-faire free-market ideology. He told me "if you like socialism so much, why don't you move to Venezuela?"

Turns out by capitalism he meant "any system where trade of some form is allowed." But by that criteria the Soviet Union was a capitalist economy, and his distinction is completely meaningless. But capitalism is okay then!!!! See you're wrong, COMMIE

The worst part about the Turning Point USA-type people is that they have this smug veneer of superiority for having taken Econ 101, even though that's where most of their knowledge ends

>oh free trade is so great, explain to me why a Kaldor-Hicks improvment is desirable when we both know there's absolutely no way the losers are going to be compensated, or even that there's a reliable way of identifying the losers.

/rant

>>11538464
>fascism as an economic system
what?

>>11538670
There’s only one leader, so it’s more akin to a monarch then any other system. And who’s to say that the other forms of progress feed back to social progress.
Anyway while it is true communism cannot sustain itself in peace, it’s highly effective in war. The Germans stood no chance against the Soviet Union, so it failed right out of the gate

>>11537800
>Note the incredible vitriol and rage which is evoked when it is suggested on /lit/ that maybe capitalism is a good thing
as if

>>11538234
>just look at Germany before war.

>>11538234
"Just look at my lifestyle before the debt destroyed me"

>>11538699
Slavery.

>>11538682
True, but on the other side of the coin you have the stary eyes libertarians who think that the problems today are caused by the government, and have all their eggs in the crypto coin basket despite it being backed by literally nothing. It’s only because of the “faith” we have in the dollar rather then a hold standard that lets the world run somewhat smoothly. If, however, you realize that you’re literally just shoveling around meaningless paper and decide you want out, the IRS will put guns to your head because you stopped paying taxes with money that has the same value as a toilet paper roll

>>11536124
>modern writers
I think you'll find most writers in "modern times" - especially at the start, when capitalism developed - believed capitalism was liberating. The word you're looking for is "contemporary".

>>11538751
slavery =/= facism

>>11538771
If slavery isn't the fascist economic model (it was) then what?

>>11538333
>capitalism would flourish without the legal protection of private property and regulatory standards governing trade and accruement.

Like most capital apologists, you have no idea what capitalism is.

>>11538699
I never said fascism was only an economic system. It is a political, philosophical and social doctrine.

>>11538670
I am talking about fascism not national socialism. Benito was partially controlled by the monarchy and the church.
>Believing that the Soviet Union won without help.
If it wans' t for the economical help from the USA and Britanni the USSR wouldn 't win.

Ironically the capitalist help the communist to defeat fascism.

>>11538682
>But by that criteria the Soviet Union was a capitalist economy
To be fair the Soviet Union never claimed to be small c communism, it was their ideal. They claimed socialism (a transitionary ideology) and were what could be functionally called state capitalism, capitalism at the scale of the state.

>>11538791
>I never said fascism was only an economic system.
it's not an economic system.

>>11538786
>the fascist economic model
a facist economic model has been established by the third reich in germany not only enslaving unvalued minorities but destroying them as values i.e. the jews. thats also basically the difference between racism and antisemitism. antisemitism in its anti-capitalistic drive wants to destroy the "value" i.e. in nazi ideology the jews who control the banks

>>11537800
>capitalist hegemony is impossible to overturn.
There is a way, and it's called Accelerationism. This shitposter is correct >>11537779

>>11538807
The fascist economy is based in corporatism.

>>11538812
>devaluing human life
>>11538823
>corporations

so capitalism?.

>>11538818
how are you so sure capitalism will destroy itself and that we will not end up like UBI dependent consumer slaves for eternity?

>>11538753
I agree. I guess what we're lamenting is the lack of critical thought in political debates, unlike us intellectuals who consider a wide plethora of sources and rationally weigh the arguments

>tips fedora
>but semi srs

>>11538802
Yeah, although good luck explaining that to anyone who is right wing that isn't abnormally open minded.

>Really, the soviet union wasn't COMMUNIST? Are you kidding me??

I'd even consider myself somewhat conservative, but the republican mainstream in the US is just laughably simplistic and most of their "intellectuals" are just middlebrow

For example, when I was a teenager I used to think Milton Friedman was some sort of economic savant. Then I learned some actual economics and realized he just dramatically oversimplified everything to win debate points

>>11538818
>There is a way, and it's called Accelerationism.
how will anything decent survive the acceleration?
accelerationism is ecologically untenable.
you can quit smoking if you move from one pack a day to four, because you will die faster.
Yeah, I just dont see that working out for the best.
incremental change and opposition to the legal foundations of capitalism and ecologically-oriented market-based redistribution is literally the best option.

>>11538831
>devaluing human life
?

>>11538832
>UBI slaves
>given the ability to live without working
>slavery
please explain this logic.
to me, not being forced to work (not even by the invisible hand of poverty) is the antithesis of slavery.

>>11538833
Conservatism also has many flaws. There are some things that must be completely changed.
Plus, the majority of conservatives are neo-cons who don' t want to conserve anything.

>>11538833
Republicans are not conservatives.

>>11538894
no, they are neo-conservatives

>>11538901
Right, conservatives in name only.

>>11538863
I suppose it depends on what you mean by "conservatism."

Someone like Burke wasn't opposed to change per se, just believed that change must be gradual and that one needs to take a long-term perspective on history.

The only point I'm trying to make here is that is seems like, while say 60 years ago neoclassical economics may not have been taken seriously, the reaction to that from the american right-wing (broadly construed) has become worse than the critique, and now people are defending free-market ideology as a performative act to virtue signal, and not because a market solution is necessarily the best outcome in situation X or Y. And they do this with a snide attitude. as if by restating an outdated version of the Efficient Market Hypothesis or throwing around the world "marginal utility" they're somehow crushing their critics with sheer intellectual firepower. Is this just me?

>>11538894
Yes, I'm aware of that, but if one is conservative, the only party they have that even pretends to advocate for their interests are the republican party, so it's shitty that the republican consensus is last century's heterodox economic theory.

>All republicans are not conservatives
>But all conservatives are republicans (at least in a statistical sense)

>>11538907
but better than real conservatives, though

>>11538858
>your livelihood being completely dependent on the whims of the capitalist class that owns everything and having absolutely no bargaining power against them
They basically own you and can decide who lives and dies. If you are not a good enough consumer, do something they don't agree with or they try to implement any form of population control, you're done for

>>11538910
> Just believed that change must be gradual.
That is the problem, the system itself is completely corrupted and needs to be remodeled from scratch.
Gradual change won' t change nothing in the long run.

>>11538911
Not really. "Conservatives" are schizophrenic, limp wristed, spineless cowards who don't even put up a fight to repeal progressive policies, and after their token resistance fails, they put up their arms and say "welp, I tried!" and give up. Real conservatives at least have some selfe-awareness and integrity.

>>11538930
? plz elaborate

>>11538912
>your livelihood being completely dependent on the whims of the capitalist class
UBI does not in any way require a capitalist class to function. moreover they intend to lose the most which is why historically they hate taxes and government.

>the capitalist class that owns everything
if a capitalist class did own everything it would imply they own the state (as governance is the most valuable asset to own in the history of all societies) and a "capitalist class" implies they would be a group competing with each other to own these assets and to my knowledge of basic maths there is absolutely no way to earn a profit from giving away money without any repayment expected.
if there is a capitalist class that owns everything, a UBI is an impossibility.

>having absolutely no bargaining power against them
democracy is formalized power over a capitalist/oligarchy/ruling class.
and even without democracy all forms of power are only maintained with the consent of the masses. there is always more ruled than rulers, that's the leverage.

>They basically own you and can decide who lives and dies.
the U in UBI is for Universal so no.

>>11536124
Because there is not real attack against capitalism. Put simply, marxism is a failed ideology and most "socialist" nations are just capitalism with higher income taxes. Capitalism has consistently produced better standards of living both economically and politically then planned economies. People endlessly bitch and moan about how capitalism is destroying the world, while in reality standards of living are at an all time high and on an upward trajectory with no signs of slowing, even in underdeveloped nations.
>b-but muh consumerism rots the soul!
"No!"
thinking that stuff can fill the hole in your life is more of a personal problem then one forced upon people, there's no reason to believe that under socialism/communism the idea that more stuff=more happy would go away

Because they're leftcom revisionist peados who criticize everyone else but do nothing themselves. They're also pseudo-intellectuals, Stalin and Lenin would wipe the floor with Derrida and Baudrillard in a debate.

>>11539040
>forced upon people
Except it literally is. If sales people and marketing departments didn't use jewish mind tricks and advertising to manufacture demand for their products, nobody would buy their shit and the entire system would break down.

>>11536124
>implying the innumerate imbeciles who peddle shit like OP's pic understand capitalism
You're pathetic, /lit/.

>>11538991
Today's society is not what it seems. Behind what appears to be a free world there are too many conspiracies and different interests fighting to obtain power.

Today's society is governed by a small group of parasites. These individuals are united by a common blood and have the same objectives. They are tribalists by nature and never work alone. Thus they have achieved total control of humanity, subverting our religion, culture, identity and destiny. These masons only want more and more power no matter the cost. They are a bunch of mentally ill colectivist who have kept us dominated for decades without us noticing.

Today's society has no control over his own will. The "democratic" results are completely controlled just like television, newspapers, entertainment and the education system. Believe when I say this monster don t want to do any good. They invented communism, multiculturalism, feminism, JUDAISM, christianity, islam, egalitarianism and other cancers.

Today's society has a lot of crap behind the curtains. And this crap will kill us if we keep letting this "people" do what they have donde for decades. We must wake up. Conservatism, communism, capitalism, the right and left... those are not the solutions. The elite will keep controlling everything from the top. We must take them down. Because we must secure the existence of our people and a future for White children.

>>11538295
More like my husband beats the shit out of me, so starving to death is a good alternative

>>11539040
>communism means planned economies
why does no one bother to read the definition of communism?

>>11537743
>>11537735
Even Zizek concedes that critics of capitalism need to spend more time coming up with alternatives to capitalism than just criticizing capitalism.

>>11539136
Fascism IS the alternative.

>>11536124
Ironic that the pic in OP's post commits the same error that it criticizes.

>>11539136
>it is easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of neoliberalism
Surely Zizek is arguing that "coming up with an alternative to capitalism" is itself out of reach.

>>11539105
The real redpill is realising posts like this are actually looking for a comforting lie and that the reality is that there is no single group of people in charge of any of this.

We're a train without a conductor, full steam ahead!

>>11539146
>erasing the grey
bluepilled t.b.h

>>11538930
Nobody is changing the system, the system is changing itself in accordance with selection pressures, just like every meme before it. Do you think anyone has the power to change it?

>>11537751

>>11537824
CRISPR/cas9, deliver us from "human nature"

>>11539155
People naturally crave to achieve power. You really think nobody has take the reins of the human destiny? There is an elite conformed of bankers, masons and oligarchs who control the results of the world.

>>11539167
Unfortunately, no. We are doomed.

>>11539105
>>11539155

>>11539167
yes precisely.

People co-evolved with ideas, memes. Some memes are so complex they take on a will of their own and pull people along for the ride.

What is a human being but an extraordinarily complex system? Can a meme become complex enough to be sentient?

>>11539208
Humans are evil and sinful by nature. We will all burn in hell.

>>11539153
>>11539136

You guys should read pic related. When semantic reactions are unrecognized and unaddressed, it creates a kind of ideological lag.
Like when physics went from Newtonian to Non-Newtonian, even though it was analytically understood by the Newtonian thinkers, they couldn't work with the model on an sub-linguistic level which is the level major breakthroughs emerge from as "hunches".

This is the same for a post-Capital and post-Marx ideology of the future: we have to deal with our semantic reactive emotional models before we can really do the work of making something new.

This effect is why its very hard for older people to learn totally new technologies while children just take right off into them, neuroplasticity is only part of the problem

>>11539198
Its not that nobody has taken the reins its that the system has taken the reins for itself.
I have my suspicions about the monstrous pedophile ruling lizard Jew gangster computer god techno-priest aristocracy lurking just out of sight, but I try to avoid arguing for its existence because i'm afraid or aware that it might merely be a boogeyman in my cognitive structure. What makes you think it's possible for the reins to be seized or that the reins haven't been seized by the system itself?

>>11539229

Interesting book on decentralized warfare

>>11537719
I'm an accelerationist. The change will come and I look forward to the collapse whatever it may be

>>11536124
Because the Serious Assaults ending up being shitholes that abandoned Communism, or are still shitholes (see: Latin America).

>>11539208
you mean egregores

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egregore

>>11539285
please respond to this, do you have an answer or is accelerationism the "fuck this gay earth, let it all burn, im blackpilled and hate highschool . FUCK YOU MOM I DONT CARE ABOUT ANYTHING." of political philosophy?

>>11539285
respond to this >>11538842

>>11537751
Massive government subsidies into automation and ai research along with accelerating the current trend of depopulation. This will lead to a situation where production will soar while demand remains constant or reduces, leading to greater prosperity per individual (possibly enough to allow existence outside of wageslavery).

Capitalism loses many of its downsides when there is an abundance, and abundance can only be maintained as well as the population can me maintained. The expectation of constant growth poison to contentedness

>>11539404
*The expectation of constant growth is poison to contentedness

>>11536124
The arguments for leftism are all widely known to be incoherent, so leftists like to insinuate that they've already been proven right to avoid having to defend their opinions.

>>11539408
>>Why do modern writers treat capitalism with snark in lieu of mustering a serious assault on it?

>Let me respond by treating leftism with snark in lieu of mustering a serious assault on it!

>>11536135
>>11536167
>muh big corporations
>muh lobbying
>muh environment
>muh commercialization
>muh rich people are evil and poor people are saints
yawn

>>11539412
Leftism doesn't appeal to reason, but to base emotions like envy and sentimentalism. So belief in leftism is less of a rational choice than a sign of spiritual sickness.

>>11539408
*Removes fedora*
*Bows a traditional japenese o-jigi*
It's good to see another man of reason in this leftist cesspool.

>>11539414
All of those things are legitimate problems which are slowly manifesting social decay though. Your snide comment doesn't somehow negate just how much of an ass-fucking capitalist society is long overdue for.

you all are naive idealists. there is no "fixing" this. capitalism is the process humanity must go through in order to become god. we're all fucked

>>11539423
t. emotionless robot #8630

>>11539432
>Dude if we make enough plastic straws and cheap 32gb microsd cards we are gonna become god lol.

>>11537743
>communism is bad

>>11539423
Most political rhetoric appeals to base emotions, scapegoating CEOs or cops is equivalent to scapegoating immigrants or jews. You are asserting an absolute truth over a large and varied group of people, and that is almost never correct.

>if I don't like it, it is spiritual sickness
Very rational of you

>>11539429
"Capitalism" is so large of a concept that it is nonsensical to attribute every hot-button issue to it. And utopian leftists often forget that most social problems are more caused by the inherent nature of mankind than any social system.

>>11539442
unironically this though

>>11539458
"human nature" is a meme

>>11539464
>muh perfectability of man
come back when you have mentally and emotionally progressed beyond the 18th century

>>11539467
says the person who makes capitalist appeals to "human nature"

>>11539458
>most social problems are more caused by the inherent nature of mankind than any social system.
This idea brought to you by: our social system.

>>11539467
I didn't say man was perfectable, just that there is no such thing as a baseline of "natural" compulsions universal to the species.

With CRISPR we really can finally edit ourselves biologically, so at this point the failure is on the part of your knowledge and imagination

>>11539404
>subsidies
Doesn’t do anything. Direct the investment yourselves if you’re going to intervene, less paperwork, less corruption of money. Don’t even funnel it through the institutions, employ the unemployed in government investment.

What the fuck happened to no nonsense bullshit anyway; I would say don’t invest for others in general, but if the government is going to do it, just don’t have them do it through companies or even other government-controlled institutions, if there isn’t any temporary agency set up to see it to completion

>>11539458
>Capitalism" is so large of a concept
Not really a legal-economic system based on the ownership and trade of private property, investment and accruement isn't that big of a concept.
>Inherent flaws of human nature
How is private ownership and the ability to accumulate capital and thus authority an inherent flaw of human nature?
If anything capitalism just gives our flaws free space to run around and do whatever they want.
That argument is almost as bad as the people who claim that our ecological troubles are all caused by overpopulation.

>>11539480
There totally are though. Much of an individual's like is guided by baser compulsions of lust and gluttony (why else do we eat like opportunistic foragers while we live in a land of plenty?). Even concepts of morality and group dynamics seem inherently biological, considering their similarities to our closest evolutionary relatives (chimpanzees are the only animals to hold long-term war against other groups of their own species).

>>11539484
Yeah, I really just said subsidies off-the-cuff, but grants would still probably be the best way to go. We have a University system set up for researching in this manner already

Most people have no idea what purpose; profit, interest rates, interest itself, Time preference or a myriad of other aspects of capitalistic markets actually have, so it's easier for them to remain ignorant of the things they should be grateful for and instead look around at the marxist perversion making them sad and then making a sweeping generalization and assumption that "feels right".

It's understandable because we humans love to simplify and make assumptions that seem right without thinking critically, hell we can't think critically about everything otherwise we'd be paralyzed with innaction and never have a solid opinion on anything.

Though another key aspect besides lazyness is that people like to attach what they observe in their minds eye to black and white categories, ahhh everything bad = capitalism everything good = progressive socialism. They wakeup and have to go to work but instead of looking inward into why they can't enjoy their day to day or how they can change it, they blame the system itself. This focus on the negative also keeps them tunnel visioned away from simple truths that would brighten their day, like how they can do a single task for 8 hours and have all of their basic needs met in most cases.

We are masochistic creatures that love to complain and people's speed of dismissing and being snarky about Capitalism seems to be largely a symptom of their own fantasy and their own insecurity.

>>11536124
because people are fucking dummies. when they say "capitalism" most of them mean to say globalism or high finance.

>>11536124
if we're being completley honest, its because anti capitalism today is largely neutered. It is obvious as to why capitalism is not desirable as a socio economic paradigm anymore, but it is also obvious that there isn't any genuine alternative that is not a rehash of 19th century ideas no longer relevant. The reality of capital's dominance is not a matter of the populace simply being too scared or too stupid to understand their position. It' simply that capitalism has basically at this point transcended its old material contradictions and is in a new stage where it can essentially go on forever and is no real danger of collapse, despite what some leftists might wishcast. liberal democracy is for certain on its deathbed, but global abstract capital is not.

it also doesnt help that these same anti capitalists espouse principles of "equality" and "fairness" as moral standpoints to combat capitalism with, but they willfully ignore the reality that ultimately capital has been an emancipatory force for minorities and women. they are still exploited, just like white men. but they arent all automatically subjugated by white men like in the past, despite tired feminist and minority identitarian moralist non-critiques.

>>11539528
The two are inextricably linked though. The whole point of capitalism is that it requires endless growth,which will inevitably devolve into globalism.

>>11539307
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egregore
interesting, never heard of before.

I was conceiving them as spirits, angels and demons and such- powerful, sentient ideas capable of influencing the world. And I think of life as embodied memes so I don't limit their influence to the human psychic realm, rather i think of the psychic realm as being a superstructure of life and life a superstructure of memes.

>>11539550
Sounds bluepilled and platonic but ok

>>11539559
shut up fag

>>11539550
>Memes
You mean signs. Dawkins 'meme' is a cringey, psuedoscientific concept. You should check out biosemiotics. Especially CS Peirce and Umberto Ecos respective theories of semiotics, for biosemiotics there is a pretty good anthology to get you into it. Understanding Peirce is by far the most important thing to do with the subject.a

>>11539480
>there is no such thing as a baseline of "natural" compulsions universal to the species.
What is food?
What is sex?
what is security?

>>11537751
I actually have an idea which I have seen ZERO discussion of anywhere and which I think would help reform capitalism greatly: outlaw privatized lending. No more bank loans, mortgages, insurance, credit cards, lay-buy, if you want any of that crap you get it through a publicly controlled channel (theoretically the govt isn't a complete pile of shit in this scenario). Not sure how to address funding entrepreneurs and stocks though. Also lobbying is completely banned lul

>>11539697
None of those require capitalism

>>11536124
Because like WoW did to the MMO market, everyone with an opinion and overinflated ego thinks X-ism will be the thing that brings down the flawed system that is capitalism.

Then it doesn't. It continues to exist: bloated, busted, but still functioning.

Then to top it off, the greatest capitalist markets are in democratic nations, where even the dumbest have a voice. The dumbest also tend to be the loudest, creating nebulous enemies that anthropomorphise the evils of capitalism (i.e "Stickin it to the man", "Fighting the Patriarchy", etc.)

The rallying cry to remove or replace capitalism has become a joke, capitalism itself becoming part of that joke. It has become that crochety old relative that says all kinds of questionable things when drunk and act like a total douche when sober: fun to have around sometimes, a pain the rest of the time, but for the most part you can't do anything about it but wait for them to die.

>>11539538
That is a very balanced and fair perspective. Way too mature for this thread and possibly this world.

>>11539223
Thanks for the suggestion, friend, I'm gonna read that next.

>>11536135
>>11536167
What exactly is 'capitalism' for you people?

>>11539918
If you have to ask...

>>11539918

>>11539918
Capitalismis aneconomic system based onprivate ownershipof themeans of productionand their operation forprofit.
Characteristics central to capitalism includeprivate property,capital accumulation,wage labor,voluntary exchange, aprice system, andcompetitive markets.
In a capitalistmarket economy, decision-making and investment are determined by every owner of wealth, property or production ability infinancialandcapital markets, whereas prices and the distribution of goods and services are mainly determined by competition in goods and services markets

>>11539936
>not formatting the cpy pst

>>11539942
the raw paste lied to me in the text field

>>11539155
This, mang
Of course, all these separate factions are pupetteered by the bogs

>>11538430
In my experience this is true as well. I've met cool far right people but I've never met a cool far left person.

>>11539040
They're at an all time high at the moment, we'll see how long that lasts when the last of the earth's resources are used up because "well people wanted it so we had to make it!"

>>11538823
The fascist economy is based on economic planning, in a large part determined incomes of some nature.

>>11536124
um, because they're all niggerfaggots

>>11539429
>Corporations aren't an issue
>Lobbying is a fault of democracy
>No smoking gun on climate change, but regulation could be passed, it isn't because of (2)
>Rich people are almost always better people than poor people

>>11540298
That last point is fucking wrong and you know it, faggot.

Or maybe you don’t, some people on this stupid site are really sheltered. The morals have little to with a rich or poor person. Very frequently rich people are parsimonious and just avaricious in general

>>11540198

Right now capitalism is the best system and the most efficient. Maybe in the far future communism will be inevitable because technology will free the human from work

>>11539404
people would start having babies like crazy

>>11540662
>Right now capitalism is the best system and the most efficient.
Why

>>11539538
>but they willfully ignore the reality that ultimately capital has been an emancipatory force for minorities and women.
No? Even Marx saw Capitalism as an explicitly emancipatory force in its initial stages, with Socialism superseding it to follow in its footsteps

>>11540662
>Maybe in the far future communism will be inevitable because technology will free the human from work

I have my doubts about this. Maybe a ton of bullshit jobs will be created and the rich will finally get their own professional ball washers. Those testies get sweaty you know!

>>11537715
>pretty much case in point
OP didn't ask for a "serious assault on it," they asked why they aren't made. You'd think we'd have better reading comprehension on a literature board.

>>11537700
You have just randomly opened the dictionary and found that word, haven't you?

>>11536124
>a class of people own the means of production, harming the upward mobility and prosperity of the lower classes
>i have noticed that a large portion of these people who own the means of production are jewish, perhaps there is a reason for this
>no they have the right to own the means of production as they have earned it by merit we need to accept their higher place in society it is for the best

>>11538818
>There is a way, and it's called Accelerationism.
So something that never worked in history of history is going to work this time?

>>11542244
Please provide sources on this bold claim

>>11538419
All these deaths are either africans or some other third world shithole like americ*.

>>11540725
>in the future technology will free the humans from work
>but the elite will create bullshit jobs to maintain the social structure
>in the far future
>f a r f u t u r e

>>11542463
Lol this. I can go have my junk manicured, my body massaged, and my ass fingered while I'm tugged off all in one Asian spa in a strip mall. And I'm not even an """elite"""

>>11536124
a paradox

>>11536124
>Fell for the commie meme but realizes, on some level, they can't live without Capitalism. Be it because they can't get out of a place, or can't leave their lifestyles, or want to get paid
>Still salty
>Take advantage of Capitalism to sell their works, spread their ideas, and become famous while simultaneously speaking out against it.

It's the /lit/ equivalent of punk bands signing to major labels, or the Occupyfags relying on iPhones and twitter and the like to organize and "protest". They system won, at this point. They can't leave the context of Capitalism, so even their protesting against it is dependent on it.

>>11537817
>the right position is always the average of all proposals
in the land of the brainlet the centrist is king

>>11538333
No one would work without also owning the means of production if they had a choice. Capitalism requires the state to deny said choice.

>>11542325
capitalism wrecked those areas and continues to

>>11539404
>accelerating the current trend of depopulation

This is /leftypol/ Newspeak for Holodomoring the world.

>>11543009

The correct answer is that any "serious assault" on capitalism later becomes the slogan on a T-shirt made by 12 year old Chinese people and worn by middle class Westerners while they protest a Milo Yiannopolous talk at Berkeley.

>>11543098
Based poste

>>11536124
Because naming something is easier than describing it.

Only losers hate capitalism.
Imagine being such a failure at life that you are constantly scheming ways to get working taxpayers to give their hard earned money to your pathetic fat ass.

>>11543063
The commoner are doing it to them self.

>>11543481
>losers
the most intriguing thing about the American psyche, to me, is how they understand perfectly well that capitalism is a game, and it's clear to see that the elites have are so far ahead that the game has lost all semblance of fairness or honest competitiveness, and STILL they love it. They love the game! They would't have it any other way! They can't conceive of a way of life where they can't "win" by having the loudest lawnmower in their street.
No matter that the owner of the lawnmower brand is the only real winner in that situation, these victories need only be ostensible, plausible.

>>11543537
Americans are dumb but supporting the majority is the fastest road to failure.

>>11543544
>supporting the majority
I don't know where this meme came from. I don't want any portion of society to work for another portion. That's what capitalism is! What I want is a system where we all decide on what projects to undertake together, share the work the best we can, rotate undesirable jobs around so no one is stuck with them, and then share the resulting wealth afterwards! What's so crazy about that?

>>11543640
>What's so crazy about that?
You'd have to be braindead and ball-less. Edgy though it may sound, conflict is human. Selfishness, violence, massive egos, unreasonableness, illogical thoughts, etc - unless you use force (and end up a Stalinist or something), you're never going to end up with this kumbaya "everyone works for the best of everyone!" stuff on any kind of social or global scale.

>>11540298
>doesn't see corporations as a threat to the environment
>subscribes to social darwinism
Y I K E S
I
K
E
S

>>11543696
How can you be pro-violence but anti-force?

>>11543716
I'm not pro or anti violence, I'm just claiming that violence, conflict, and war are human conditions. As for force, person to person violence is different than state-run violent oppression on a societal scale.

>>11543696
>conflict is human nature
And so is cooperation so what is your point? If anything it is not as if there won’t be avenue of competition in what that anon said

>>11543737
that's just plain false distinction.

I think that violence is a tool like any other.
States really are not different from any other human organization. Mafia, Church, Business, Government. They are all expressions of brutal order, and thank God.

Even Tribe is a church-state-business-mafia. Family too.

Best to stop being hung up on which term you like best, and work toward pragmatic solutions to community problems

>>11543696
And this is the absolutely predictable and no less incomprehensible response.
If I believed in this dreary picture of humanity you just painted I wouldn't waste my time thinking about politics at all. Because it's all farce at that point, huh? In fact, all of these same arguments can be used against capitalism!
>illogical thoughts,
for example. The reason classical economists believed market forces added up to the common good of all, was that each person was a logical economic entity. They research prices, they compare products, they keep an eye on the job market at all times looking for a better opportunity.
If people are illogical than, in that sense, the market just doesn't work!
>Selfishness, violence
how is the owner of the supermarket going to hire cashiers? at the end of their first day, they run out of the store with all the money! They'd probably make a month's salary in one day, then jump state and do it all over again somewhere else! And so on in any kind of company. Can't hire janitors cause they could just stab you! If cooperation is impossible, so is capitalism.

I know you don't want to work anons, but you have to. There is no way around it. There will not be a fully automated workforce in your lifetime and society needs your cooperation. I know we live in a time when it may seem like you shouldn't have to work but we're just not there yet. Maybe your children will grow up not having to work but untill then you might as well get to it. You need to eat and you need to pay the rent and you need to pay your share of the costs of public schools and healthcare and so on. Work is a good, anon. It will make you feel pround and independent and when you get used to it, it can be a lot of fun. Sitting around and being angry with those who are wealthier than you is very base and speaks of plain jealousy which is in no way complementary of a thinking man who should know better than to wish for luxuries and the "easy life"
>But I'll get taxed by porky and the ritch and it will all go to corruption
Give onto Ceasar what is his
>But I'll get taxed by libtard cuck democrats who will give it all to niggers
It's unsustainable and it will run it's course before you know it

>>11539344
It definitely could be that to certain people, but I also feel as though humans will be able to survive the collapse and make the best options out of that

>>11545060
>I know you don't want to work anons, but you have to.
dropped. go patronize your Boss's crotch next time you're down there.

>>11545060
>Maybe your children

Unless my sperm acquires magical powers and starts flying around impregnating women, that's not happening.