/lit/ - Literature

>>11534973
It was the da vinci code that made me an atheist

>>11534973
This never happens.

I always thought of god as a superior force that drives everything into place, rather than an entity. Possibly interested in living beings but only occasionally and beyond morals and concepts of good and evil.

>>11534973
Cat in the Hat

>>11534973

>>11534973
The Bible. Obvs.

>>11534973
revolt against the modern world desu

>>11535004
nice pet theory. I’ll bet you think you’re special

>>11535026
Thank you. I'm not, I just sharing my thoughts.

>>11534973
I was raised catholic and lived like one for most of my life, but TBK really helped me appreciate my faith much more.

>>11534973
Honestly, going to a Catholic university is what converted me, not any book.

>>11534973
>needing a book to legitimize believe in god instead of having direct transcendental experience with the all encompassing unity of the divine

never gonna make it

>>11535108
What does it mean to "make it"?

>>11534973
atlas shrugged

The talks I had with my old reverend during "affirmation" made me abandon christianity

pic related

>>11535031
but you are special, your mommas special little boy

>>11534973
MY DIARY


DESU

>>11535405
His mom is a walrus and you are an Andalusian girl.

Moby Dick

I’m still an atheist but Crime and Punishment coupled with my father’s religious conversion wiped out my disdain for religion. I wish I could believe.

>>11535328
you’ll know when you’ve made it but that’s not gonna happen so don’t worry about it

>>11534973

>>11534973
None, I need god to give me proof of his existent and that he is the sole reason for all the good in the world before I give him any faith, something which should be earned and not given blindly.

>>11535437
How so?

>>11534973
The confessions by Augustine.

Such a powerful book. Anyone can relate to Augustine.

>>11535500
a world with God is more beautiful than one without

>>11535450
*snap*

>>11535505
that it?

>>11535031
>thank you
>I'm not

>>11535514
not him, but the op did say "believe", in which case this is probably actually the strongest reason.

>>11534973

Intellectually it was Ed Feser's book "The Last Superstition" that really convinced me that God existed.

Spiritually, I have to say it was probably either "Francis of Assisi" by G.K Chesterton or "The Way of the Pilgrim". "Imitation of Christ" by Thomas a Kempis is also up there too.

>>11535676
>Ed Feser's book "The Last Superstition"
Is this actually good?

>>11535484
/thread

>>11535484
How self-important

>>11535687

His book is mainly aimed at disproving books like "The God Delusion" and "God Is Not Great" and a lot of the New Atheists claims and assertions. He shows that there's more to Christian claims beyond "muh Bible" and "you just got to believe". He's very thorough in his approach and covers a lot of ground in the book. He has a blog you can check out, but his book is pretty understandable if you're a newcomer.

Only thing I'd say is he's very acidic to the New Atheists and his approach to philosophy and morality is based on Aristotle and Aquinas. If you don't mind his aggressive tone you're likely to get a lot of mileage out of his book.

>>11534973
if you werent raised as a christcuck I cant take you seriously at all and cant think that you arent larping especially if all it takes is a fucking book to make you believe that shit. imagine being that weak to be willing to accept someone elses "truth"

It wasn't a book but a lyric from a song.
"If it looks like an accident or a collage of senselessness you weren't looking hard enough at it." - Bright eyes.
It made me think about the overarching purposefulness and harmony behind creation. From the bottom to the top, it looks like a big probabilistic coil unwinding.
But then I got into Aldous Huxley's Perennial Philosophy shortly after that.

>>11535756
I suppose your so 'strong willed' you don't believe in anything at all

>>11534991
Dan Brown is a thriller writer. An unimpressive one at that.
You would have to be an ignoramus to believe anything in The Da Vinci Code. The historical references are wrong, his hypothesis are astoundingly weak, and your comment was bait.

saged

>>11535797
i myself always feel in a state of uncertainty. not saying that is very healthy either but it is definitely a better state to be in than affirming an illusionary individuality.
but i was raised as a orthochristcuck you dont know me at all i know how it is in these matters im right about what i said.

>a burger has a religious epiphany reading Dostoevsky
this is such a social cliche I'm surprised memes about it don't exist

>>11535108
>needing a book to legitimize believe in god instead of doing drugs and seeing shit

>>11535484
>my given faith is more important than God

>>11534973
>book
For me, it was LSD.

>>11535484
Your 'need' for anything doesn't matter kid

It was the bible that made me an atheist. I grew up in christian school and I used to worship God every sunday and read the bible everyday until I realised that God send bears to kill the children for making fun of a bald man. I started to question my belief then...

>>11535479
hare krishna

>>11536095
when you can feel the purest essence, the fabric of time, only then you realize the true meaning of God.

meditation cant get you further than psychedelics, but for a neophyte, the substance can help.

>>11534973
St Paul.

>>11536313
Hari bol

>>11535484
>I need to have everything specifically proven beyond all reasonable doubt before I can have faith

So not faith then.

>>11535484
Imagine being so arrogant as to believe you're worthy of this

>>11535405
>he's not his mother's special little boy
Did you grow up in an orphanage, anon?

Spinoza's Ethics

>>11534973
When I realized that our material world can be just synthetic environment to be controlled by transcendental beings.

When I saw that no morality can exist without God, as everything we feel are just reactions in our brain, and they have no real value without spirit (why good is good I might ask).

When I asked myself what triggers me to feel when I come across beauty and art.

>>11537003
>When I saw that no morality can exist without God, as everything we feel are just reactions in our brain, and they have no real value without spirit (why good is good I might ask).
Different cultures have different ideas of good, although there are some key similarities. The obvious reason is that, as social creatures, "good" is equivalent to "beneficial for society as a whole". Different societies have different needs and hence there are different concepts of good. Even Spinoza recognizes this and he's religious. How is this an argument for God?

>>11534973
what single book could take you from unbeliever to believer? conversion is an experience beginning with a feeling, a tiny wave, progressively building on itself with epiphanies and inner revelations, culminating in a thunderous crash on the shores of faith.

>>11536835
This.

>>11537027
Not saying that there is one true morality, but why are good and benefits for society considered good. "Because it maintains our species". And what would that mean in a purely material world? It would have no value, everyone could even go antinatalist, because our lives would become worthless.

>>11537160
>why are good and benefits for society considered good.
because they conduce to our own survival.

why are Christians so obnoxious?

>>11537532
second sentence of mine post

>>11535484
I think you might need to read the definition of "faith"

>>11535484

>>11534973
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Azkaban.

Brothers Karamazov made me read the New Testament. I struggle with the old one though and I'm having a real hard time reconciling Jesus Christ with the God of the Old Testament. I can't say I believe in God (still) but my own ignorance about the scope of what I could possibly know is now very apparent to me.

>>11537085
>>11536835
Spinoza has no God. Pantheism is meaningless.

Brothers Karamazov helped me point in the right direction of the Orthodox Church; Scripture helped me understand the path, and reading the Fathers also helped.

what made believe in God wasn't through a book, but experiences with depression, despondence and despair that made turn away from the world and turn towards the holy.

Blood meridian

>>11535450
I know this is bait, but Gibran's prophet is a kafir and doesn't resemble the true prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

>>11535484
Even if God gave you proof of his existence you would be quick to dismiss it.

>>11538549
You can fuck right off with this.
>I have a million dollars just suck my dick
>Sure can I see the money first
>Ever heard of faith kid?
If God simply appeared to everyone and clearly demonstrated to us that life is not meaningless, that we should worship Him and live by His teachings because he is the source of all tha is good, then I am 10000% sure that nearly everyone, even the psychopaths, would worship him. Is he too busy to do this for us? Why is faith so important? What kind of a sick fucking game is this?

>>11534973
The New Testament

>>11535484
He gave you proof you fool. He died for you

>>11535544
I'm neither of those people but:

>nice pet theory
>Thank you

>I’ll bet you think you’re special
>I'm not

Also I'm yet to find anything to convince me even slightly of god's existence but I like to keep an open mind. Anyone know anything that might convince me? I don't see a book alone changing my mind but you never know.

>>11541064
Jesus claimed to be God and died for it. Then he came back from the dead three days later. How is that possible without a supernatural force? And if it was a supernatural force, it's probably the one he claimed to be.

Now, I know you're rubbing your merchant hands and thinking
>Gee, I don't know about that, got any proof?
Well, look here bucko, the apostles were all brutally tortured and murdered because they claimed this really happened. Yet, they never submitted and claimed it never happened. It would have been so easy to just say Jesus was a liar yet they didn't, they chose abject suffering and an early death rather than lie about the messiah. Now think about that next time you're washing your penis.

Not the guy you were replying to but,
>>11541055
How do we know Jesus was genuinely the son of God? I'm not saying he is or isn't because I don't know, neither do you. But what makes you say that Jesus' crucifixion was proof of anything besides the Romans not liking his antics?
>>11540195
What would you call proof? If he appeared to me in some way that's a little more tangible than just the shape of the toaster marks on my bread looking kinda like Jesus, then sure. I'm not sure what it would take to convince me to be honest, what convinced you?

I think the main issue I have with believing in a religion is that of which one to believe in, if any. What makes one more legitimate than the other?

>>11541089
Ha ha Jew meme good one. But seriously, yeah if Jesus really did rise from the dead then sure he's the messiah. What you proposed about the apostles is evidence not proof, interesting evidence I suppose but very far from proof. I can't explain why they would have never admitted it never happened if it didn't, perhaps they did and the Romans simply claimed they didn't. Perhaps they knew the influence of martyrdom, or perhaps they genuinely believed it, true or not. Faith can give people that sort of willpower. Again I'm not trying to shit on your religion, simply looking for someone to change my mind about it.

>>11535740
not op but thanks friend i just ordered it

>>11541024
>God is le man on a cloud

bump

>>11536262
Yeah, the apologetics classes I took in Christian school made me come to the conclusion that none of us truly know if there is a god or not

>>11541328
Well, it is something out the scope of what mankind can reallly know so believers are as close to the truth as non-believers.

>>11535479
>ISKCON
Gay

>>11535484
>the creator of the universe answers to me

>>11541364
>The creator of the universe answers my prayers

>>11534973
None because God doesnt exist

>>11534973
Nothing, yet. But 'A Confession', by Tolstoy has seriously made me re-evaluate my previous beliefs.

>>11541468
How do you know?
How can something come from nothing?

ITT: Edgy teens

>>11541364
Is this the single most brainlet response of evangelists? I've encountered it so many times that I am honestly baffled how people who believe that God has literally, directly spoken to humans many times throughout documented history can simultaneously believe that wanting to see such a thing is "arrogance."

>>11541585
>How can something come from nothing?
God seems to manage to do it

>I read a book by [Russian author], totally opened my eyes to God, bro
Is this the new meme of /lit/?

>>11541616
Obviously he's omnipotent and omniscient.
Without God nothing remains nothing and impotent...
You must think nothing is pretty powerful and smart stuff if it can create harmony and life out of itself?

>>11541585
It can't. But being IS and cannot not be. Not-being IS NOT and cannot be.

>>11541625
Everyone knows some unknown God exists and brought them to life, and objective truth and ethics are real. People need encouragement to admit this and they need help relating to this unknown God. That's where books and the bible and Russians and the Greeks and prayer and meditation come to play

>>11541660
The only being that exists by virtue of its nature is God. Correct. Every other being is contingent and subject to change and decay and so is a created being not eternal and absolute being.

>>11541676
Wrong. Being IS and cannot not be, if being could not not be then it would violate the law of noncontradiction. This God that you speak of is ontotheological in his construction and such a nonsensical concept.

>>11541705
The only "being" whose non existence is a contradiction is God himself since he is unchanging, uncaused, absolute, transcendent and perfect.
Everything else including the universe, matter and space and you are not necessary being, not absolute and so your non existence is possible.

Elements of Theology by Proclus and Metaphysics by Aristotle

>>11541665
>Everyone knows some unknown God exists and brought them to life
You're not a psychic, and many atheists can explain that they genuinely do not believe in a God.

>>11541647
>Obviously he's omnipotent and omniscient.
God so stronk he can make himself

What do you think OP?
The only true book.

>>11541665
Man, I used to think this board was exasperating around 6 years ago when it was all college Marxists, but somehow it has managed to become even more intellectually dishonest and retarded

>>11541821
There is no existence before the one, there is nothing prior.

No space-time. Nothing.

>>11541829
>someone believes in God
That’s the opposite of dishonest.

But I know what you mean, I just saw a thread on the front page about Carl Fucking Schmitt

>>11541848
And the one is the universe itself m8y

>>11541743
Wrong. Being IS and cannot not be. The state of a being in which that being is become is not the being itself, nor is it Being, nor does the phenomenal becoming of beings contradict the absolute IS-ness of being. The effect does not imply the fading into nonbeing into the cause: they are indeed co-eternal, for it they weren't that would mean that being could be not being and indeed violate the law of noncontradiction. Your formulation of God is nonsensical because it's ontotheological: it formulates a God out of an abstraction from beings and pretends, without any reason to do so, that this abstraction from beings can a nature which is outside-being, different-from-being, in short a different kind of substance.

>>11541863
*of the cause
*can apply

>>11534973
>implying I believe in God
You must be new here.

Life of Pi

>>11541857
Impossible, for the universe is material and incomplete because it does not comprise moral virtues, therefore it cannot be good, therefore it cannot be the one if it does not at least comprise good, which participates of the one most primarily.

>>11535740
>He shows that there's more to Christian claims beyond "muh Bible" and "you just got to believe".
Then he isn't a Christian. Whole point of Christianity is it that it isn't some kind of neo-platonic rational religion. You might cover deism with crosses but it won't make it Christianity.

>>11541848
>Nothing.
Just as there is no proof for the existence of the Christian or any other God. Nothing.

>>11541854
>someone believes in God
>That’s the opposite of dishonest.
Of course it is when you change the definition of the word to whatever you want it to mean.

>>11541917
Welcome to apologetics.

>>11541910
I am proof.
>>11541917
No one is changing definitions here you fucking retard. I’m trying to be honest

>this thread

>>11541880
woah...

>>11541960
That’s called Metaphysics, buddy

The Dhammapada.

>>11541848
[citation needed]

>>11542061
Logic

Metaphysics

Thinking about things for more than two seconds

>>11542128
woah...

Why did Cain disobey god? Cain had proof of gods existence, he could have reserved a place for himself in heaven, despite of all the misery of life.

How are we supposed to resort from nihilism when the meaning of life only can come in the form of faith? If I don't have any faith in the meaning of life, the only alternative is complete nihilism.

>>11542157

>>11535328
If you have to ask, you are never gonna make it

>>11541362
cringe and bluepilled

>>11535448
Be patient and read the sacred texts

>>11542278
I've read the Bible, gone to church services of a bunch of different denominations, gone to a bunch of Bible studies, prayed as sincerely as I could, apologized to God for all my sins, and nothing noticeable has happened. I haven't felt the presence of God. What am I doing wrong?

I honestly feel more in contact with the divine when I contemplate Shiva or Kali, but Christians will tell me that's wicked idol worship.

>>11541880
Way to regurgitate your grossly misinterpreted Plato, my fellow Theologian

>>11534973

Robert Spitzer: New Proofs for the Existence of God: Contributions of Contemporary Physics and Philosophy.

Best book on the Fine Tuning Problems at the core of modern physics where God necessarily fixes the results to produce a universe capable of sustaining structure, stars, chemistry, and life.

>>11535484

Plotinus: On Beauty (Ennead I.6)

>>11542397
The multiverse and/or the natural selection of universes based on their consistency makes the fine tuning argument useless.

>>11534991
>hurr durr jesus was a real boi who did the sex on a lady!!
wow epic twist.

>>11535004
I think you are special,

>>11542340
>What am I doing wrong?
you're not schizo

>>11542340
I was raised catholic and I truly started connecting with God years after I stopped going to church

>>11542469
>raised Catholic
>raised
Every time

>>11542426
No a multiverse would make fine-tuning low-entropy even more important, to the point of extreme improbability. A multiverse origin where the overwhelming majority of universes fail requires extremely low entropy to be fine tuned at the initual conditions of creation for there to be enough energy to eventually roll the winning dice numbers and produce a universe capable of sustaining life. We also know our observed universe has low-entropy starting conditions, so the lucky roll has to have happened in even lower entropy conditions as the dice rolling begins.

You're underestimating the extreme improbability of how fine-tuned any universe is needed to be for life to be possible. Entropy and the arrow of time would make the emergence of such a universe require extreme fine tuning of entropy in the initial conditions of creation.

youtube interviews with E Michael Jones

>>11534973
In literature, Book of the New Sun and TBK had the biggest impact. In philosophy, Aristotle, Aquinas, Leibnitz, Garrigou Lagrange and Feser.

>>11535081
What's a catholic university like?

>>11542488
You’re extending a law of this universe, entropy, to all other universes and the origin of the multiverse. Never mind that, you say that I’m underestimating the improbability of this universe’s existence. I’m not sure how you demonstrate why this universe is more unlikely, but even if it were, it would eventually be created, because it’s a possibility. You’re underestimating the vastness of the multiverse. If we were in a universe that sometimes didn’t make much sense, then we could still argue for God’s fine tuning, our main point being that nature doesn’t produce such illogical creations. And if you’ll argue that god created this universe, what is preventing you from thinking that he created all other universes too? Then the fine tuning argument is yet again, useless, because we were only lucky to end up in this universe.

>>11542360
Absolutely not Plato at all. Plato’s Metaphysics I never really found too great anyway. You go to Aristotle or Proclus for that

>Raised Christian
>Went through edgy suburban atheist phase
>Back to agnosticism
>Last year, accept the Lord again
>Feel poisoned because it's hard to beat back years of "muh atheism" and denial.

"Mere Christianity" helped a lot when I was a bit lost with all of this, but I still feel strange. Rebuilding faith is difficult.

>>11542520
Usually uncatholic.

>>11542540
>Never mind that, you say that I’m underestimating the improbability of this universe’s existence. I’m not sure how you demonstrate why this universe is more unlikely, but even if it were, it would eventually be created, because it’s a possibility.
No you don't understand entropy. The end result of any use of energy is increasing waste to the point there is no possibility for more useful work to be performed. You run out of useful energy to perform more dice rolls, the opportunity to possibly roll more dice to produce a universe that can sustain life ends. You do not have an infinite amount of dice rolls with the same energy.

The extreme improbability of rolling the right dice to produce such a universe before entropy-death necessitates a fine tuned low entropy start condtion for a multiverse model. The observed low entropy of our universe also puts a lower bound on when the lucky dice were rolled, the multiverse must not have build up much entropy in bad rolls before our fluke come up.

>>11541921
How are you being honest by demanding to be taken seriously on a position you have no proof for? Honest answer would include just that - "I don't have proof - therefore I won't hold this position until it's presented". This is worse than /b/ somehow.

>>11542563
>Rebuilding faith is difficult
Being wilfully ignorant and knowing it is difficult as well.

>>11542603
>the source of all creation is subject to entropy death and has a limited amount of energy
No you don’t understand the multiverse. You’re trying to say that Chaos, or Truth, or whatever is the primal cause of existence, is limited by a law that we’ve only discovered in this universe. Would you really accept the idea that God could only produce a certain amount of universes before running out of power?

>>11534973
not literature, but pic related has unironically had the biggest impact on my (now lack of) relationship with god and organized religion. It took watching this show to realize all the bullshit that we’re fed our whole lives. Heath Ledger’s (RIP) Joker also made me re-examine a lot of my worldview as well. (I know it’s technically not literature but i think both of these contain a lot of philosophical deep meanings which could probably be traced back to important literature. Dan Harmon and Christopher Nolan seem like they read a lot.

>>11542619
I just was honest. I AM proof.

>>11542650
Yeah, fascinating.

>>11542628
Willfully ignorant?

>>11542666
You read that correctly. What's surprising? You are jumping to conclusions and positions based on how you feel on a given day. You clearly have some semblance of an idea which of those positions is correct, but it's different for you every other day I guess.

This is an example of the extreme fine tuning you need to make the obervable universe work:

>During the inflationary epoch about 10^−36 until 10^-32 a second after the Big Bang, the universe suddenly expanded, and its volume increased by a factor of at least 10^78 (an expansion of distance by a factor of at least 10^26 in each of the three dimensions), equivalent to expanding an object 1 nanometer (10^−9 m, about half the width of a molecule of DNA) in length to one approximately 10.6 light years (about 10^17 m or 62 trillion miles) long.

Note that Cosmic Inflation is used as an explanation to radically lessen the amount of necessary fine tuning needed to explain the Horizon Problem. All you need is a magic force that turns on for an instant (10^-3-4 seconds) casting Humongous Maximus and expands everything equivalently from the size of a few folded proteins to the size of twice the distance of Earth to Alpha Centauri, at the perfect rate to still allow galactic structure necessary for star formation, but not too fast or too long to separate all quanta from eachother in a dark rip, but not too slow or too short to allow gravity to collapse everything into a big crunch, and then magically turns off just an instant later to produce the homogeneous non-local universe we observe today. And this is a less fine tuned universe than explains more phenomena organically than without the Humongous Maximus spell.

>>11542634
Multiverse theories to explain the fine-tuning of the observable universe do not recourse to divine superabundence as an explanation for the problem of entropy.

Fine tuning is needed to explain why any particular set of energy used to create a particular universe is capable of sustaining life. A multiverse theory is supposed to explain why that particular set of energy could produce such a universe without fine tuning by cycling through possibilities or dice rolls until it arrived at the right result, but suffers the entropy problem with that particular set of energy.

In a superabundent multiverse every particular universe emanating from the One would be fine tuned to its particular created telos, not a set of energy trying to luck out combinations until heat death.

Uh, The Bible? duhhhh

>>11542644
based

>>11534973
God made me believe in God

>>11542655
I am proof of God because I have a woman who is committed to me and who is extremely attractive as well.

And I am reading The Almagest

Didn't make me believe in God but the last few lines of Cathedral by Carver made me feel something which I think was the closest to a (religious) epiphany I've ever experienced in my life, besides one personal rl experience I won't share.

>>11542486
what?

>>11542563
Mere Christianity is filled with so many sloppy arguments though

>>11543106
If you were raised Muslim, in a Muslim culture, you’d probably be Muslim. If you weren’t seriously exposed to any religious ideas, then you would probably be an atheist or considering all types of beliefs that you might not bat an eye to if you were a Christian. When some idea becomes such a large part of your childhood, it’s hard to just do away with it. It becomes a part of you. To deny it is almost like denying your self. I don’t mean to say that this proves that any religious idea is false, only that, it may be difficult for a life-long believer to relate to the disbelief of another, because the emotional, nostalgic element just doesn’t reside in everyone. There’s just a different feel between attending church for the first time as an adult, and attending as a child. There’s a gradual indoctrination that builds upon itself and is ultimately dependent on a child’s readiness to believe. The story of Noah’s Ark and Samson’s hair and Jonah and the whale, all mold their way into your brain and you just accept them, and everything after that becomes easier to accept.

I just think this issue is too often glossed over in these types of discussions. It’s hard to find theologians and notable converts throughout the past that weren’t raised in a religious culture to begin with.

>>11543111
Sure, but Lewis was the first writer I looked for following my change. I had heard that he was an atheist at some point before converting, and I wanted that outlook. It wasn't perfect - not nearly - but it helped to kind of ground me, or point me in a direction.

>>11542550
Just lmao. Please point me to *any* section of Artistotle that contends something like:

>the universe is material and incomplete because it does not comrpise moral virtues

or

> it cannot be the one if it does not at least comprise good, which participates of the one most primarily

Aristotle's notion of unmoved mover is entirely about postulating a foundation for the observation of change, and does not incorporate notions of "good participating of the one". You are utterly confused about your metaphysics because you haven't read any, which is characteristic of contemporary christposters on /lit/.

The real question is which god made me believe in books. not sure should I thank or shank him

4 books led me to the belief in god
The urantia book
Guide for the perplexed
Koran
The secret doctrine

>>11535687
Having read a lot of what he was referencing beforehand, yes. His summaries of the relevant parts of the Greeks and Scholastics are spot-on, and he goes into some detail about how and why philosophy ended up where it did after them. He also devotes large passages to dabbing on the gays, which is always fun. The only complaint I have is that he seems to use some 2008-core Republican language to appeal to what he must have seen as his audience at the time, but he openly identifies as a reactionary in the book.

>>11541902
The book also explains how nominalism was instrumental in giving prots like you that mindset, and how disastrous it's been for Christianity ever since.

>>11535004
But what's the point of calling this "God" when "God" has a different generally accepted definition?

>>11536095
>when and only when I put a specific substance into my brain, I have mystical experiences
>this is evidence of God
???

>>11534973
Unironically al Ghazali's "Ihya' Ulum al Din" (Revival of the Religious Sciences)

A couple of days ago I was in a very bad situation so I started praying to God to help me, despite the fact that my faith had gone very weak at that time. After a couple of prayers I asked him to show me a sign that he existed. A weird scratching sound started a couple of seconds after that. I was surprised and went to look from where the sound came from, but could not find any plausible source.
Was this some kind of revelation? Or was it just a weird coincidence?

>>11545360
>Hear some scratching while praying
>Must be a sign from God
Jesus Christ, anon

>>11545377
It wasn't any prayer. I was literally asking Him to show me a sign of his existence. If it was a coincidence, it would be a very weird one.

>>11545388
Fucking everyone makes that prayer at some point. It's not exactly an uncommon prayer. You think nobody's ever heard some fucking scratching during it?

>>11545402
Yeah you would be right if I was praying it every now and then. But that was the first time I've ever prayed something like that. Also the lights were on and the sound seemed close, so if anything had moved, I would have noticed it. It's really a weird occurrence honestly, and despite not being an /x/ type of guy, it really made me thinking.

>>11545413
Mate go talk to a fucking priest and tell him God gave you a message by making a scratching noise and watch as he laughs you straight back to childhood then fucks you in the ass.

>>11545388
is that the best your god can do? scratch

every time i try to convert to religion i read the bible and just drop it in disgust.

Might try Buddhism

>>11545420
Maybe scratch was not the best word to describe the sound I guess... Also your post suggests that you have some sort of disdain against religion, so you might not be the best person to discuss this with.

>>11545459
I don't have disdain for religion. I had an experience while making the same prayer except my experience involved my discursive thought shutting off and an overwhelming feeling of peace.

>>11545421
I guess if the sound was too pitched it would've been too weird? Maybe the sound was familiar so that I still have some doubt, like some sort of test? Or maybe the anon above you is right and I'm just making up stuff, I don't know.

>>11536095
Kek, take some deliriants and see what you believe in then, you absolute degenerate

>>11541114
>Africans didn't invent anyt..

>>11542520
Smart, tolerant, comfy, just a great environment to be in. At the secular universities you get shot down if you try to do anything even slightly unorthodox, and don't even dare asking about Foucault's private life!

If God didn't exist there would be no power to create you or the universe.

If there wasn't a God then neither Socrates nor Jesus would've claimed there was. But they did, so there is.

>>11534973
Les Misérables, it saved me from my edgy fedora atheist phase

>>11545949
And now that you're wiser, you believe in something which cannot be proven. Good going.

>>11545904
You can't be serious. Even /b/ is better than this.

>>11545988
So what is your rebuttal?

>>11545904
At last I truly see. Ontological argument made manifest.

>>11535004
Sound theory, I bet you're special.

>>11535108
That happened to me the other day. It was meh.

>>11542644
Where are these filenames coming from? I see them all over /lit/ now

>>11546065
Facebook I guess

>>11546065
mobile users

>>11538576
BUGS RISE UP!

>>11544323
>doesn't read theology
>talks about the "definition" of "God"

It wasnt a book. Id always believed in Him, but when I became old enough to articulate and reason as to why I do believe, it came down to the fact that I refuse to believe that the utter complexity of all the sciences managed to create themselves and coalesce just in the right way to create life, let alone life that is self-aware and intelligent, completely out of chance

>>11542187
Advaita > Kashmir Shaivism > Shuddhadvaita> Vishishtadvaita >>> Dvaitadvaita > Achintya Bheda Abheda (Hare Krishna)

>>11548926
Most people are not theologians, yet have an understanding of what God is that isn't "a superior force that drives everything into place, rather than an entity". Calling that God feels to me like a dishonest way to pretend that your beliefs are reconcilable with mainstream religion.

>>11546001
There is no "my rebuttal". Cosmic background has been proven to exist in the 60's, but anything even approaching that hasn't been presented by any religion since their inception. Not to mention the studies done on faith, neither of which produced a favorable outcome.

>>11550213
>I have no rebuttal
Indeed.
>this theory in science tho about some radiation
Lol wut

none, why does it hurt to imagine theres a god anyway?

>>11542515
>In literature, Book of the New Sun and TBK had the biggest impact.
Same here. Also, A Canticle for Leibowitz.

bump

>>11536755
Smol penor

>>11541089
>calling him a jew
>believing/defending a jew religion
kek

man's search for meaning

Emerson

No book made me believe in God, although my parents told me to believe in God during my childhood years

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_Recrucified#/media/File:ChristRecrucified.jpg

The Quran

>>11534973
None. Nor do I actually believe most people on /lit/ are religious.

Religion is nothing but humanity's infantile attempt to answer the unanswerable; a sentiment now futile due to science.

>>11535057
>TBK
What the fuck is that?

>>11535809
I did like it much better when it was called Fouceault's Pendulum.

I actually knew someone who thought FP was non-fiction.

>>11534973
Grace and Gravity by Simone Weil
Unironically

I was born with a disposition towards God.

Ive nurtured it and have controlled my soul.

>>11542340
mate just pray to Allah and not jesus.

Youre close but not there yet.

>>11535469
>>11542181
gold
>>11546051
big mistake taking it as such!

>>11550213
what do you think you're even saying? lmao. All of space =/= the creation of that space. It is more likely than not that God created the big bang, Read Genesis 1 and see the symbolism in "God spoke, and there was light" (first thing he created btw), etc.

>>11543258
Absolutely not true at all. The first point is more endemic to Proclus, whom you haven’t read, so let’s stick to the second point.

In moving to act upon something a first mover would have a good end in mind would it not? It’s end would wholly be good, but various things of good and evil nature would transpired between its inception and completion correct?

I await a response, I assume you’ve read Metaphysics in its entirety

>>11553413

This, then this declassified government report on consciousness really put things into perspective...

>>11535328
Allow me to spoonfeed you. It's salvation, anon. You'll never attain it without transcendence.

>>11541114I
>If he appeared to me in some way that's a little more tangible than just the shape of the toaster marks on my bread looking kinda like Jesus, then sure
Really anon? If God appeared to you like Paul would you genuinely believe or would you concoct some atheistic rationale behind it, like "I wanted to believe so much, I was dehydrated etc etc so I hallucinated a vision of God."
It reminds me of Scrooge encountering Marley:

“You don't believe in me,” observed the Ghost.

“I don't,” said Scrooge.

“What evidence would you have of my reality beyond that of your senses?”

“I don't know,” said Scrooge.

“Why do you doubt your senses?”

“Because,” said Scrooge, “a little thing affects them. A slight disorder of the stomach makes them cheats. You may be an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of an underdone potato. There's more of gravy than of grave about you, whatever you are!”

The Quran and Quantum Physics For Dummies.

>>11545904
Your first line is a basic but decent argument. Your second is low quality bait.

>>11542340
you’re not schizophrenic, take acid and call yourself a genius and identify with Christ it will come to you

>>11554272
I'm not familiar enough with the bible to recall what Paul encountered, but yeah maybe I'd brush it off. Really depends what it was, if he appeared in some human form how would I discern it from just another crazy who thinks they're the second coming? Personally, I think some sort of supernatural apparition would convince me, witnesses besides myself would certainly help. It really does depend on what the appearance was though.