/lit/ - Literature

niggas don't know what porneia entails in year current
imagine

>>11510892
you stop being a meme chrisitian

>>11510892
this I share sentiments with OP

>>11510892
you can't and shouldn't. don't.

Is there one explicit anti-premarital sex verse in the Bible? How is marriage or "fornication/porneia" even defined? [I've looked it up and it translates as "sexual immorality"; when I look for "sexual immorality" I get more Paul-centric verses that merely use the phrase as if we know perfectly what it encompasses.] It's as if sex itself is the union by the mythical standard for marriage and a social act only insofar as Leviticus but even that is bypassed by Christ's new covenant, yes? Are the folks in Song of Solomon married?
Not being some liberal Christian faggot but a lot of readings are plump with projection (imagine debasing scripture with politics!) and I simply want Truth.

>>11510892
>how do you reconcile being a christian and wanting and willing to do premarital sex
You can't.

>>11511043
Fornication falls under the category of "sexual immorality". It's a moral law to not debase yourself by doing such an act outside of wedlock. Moral laws are eternal unlike Civil and Ritual laws that have been fulfilled by Christ.

>>11510892
the desire for sex is one of a few things- animalistic lust, narcissistic validation, romantic obssession. None of these are good. I'm not Christian but what the bible says about sex rings very true to me when i look at my personal experience. All the sex ive had seems kind of pointless and vulgar in retrospect, the same as downing bottles of liquor or watching movies.

I can't be Christian because I can't not fuck

>>11511062
This.

>>11510892
>implying Christians can't or aren't susceptible to sin
Bad premise, -2/10 post. Pic related, it's you. /thread

>>11511072
The way you describe sex makes me think you've never truly been in love. That, or you've only had shitty sex

>>11511083
I mean i can't convince you over 4chan posts, but I really truly have been in love, intensely in love, 3 different times, and im also pretty good at sex because ive always been athletic.

it might sound like im memeing here, but what im saying about sex i honestly believe. when i look back on my relationships sex is the last thing to come to mind, there are hundreds of moments that flit through my mind, and none of them are memories of sex.

On the other hand when im in a narcissistic or lustful frame of mind then all the most visceral sexual experiences come into like a slideshow that provide me validation and arousal. I am increasingly convinced that that shit is just cancer though. Same thing for the romantic obsession, it seems pretty at the time but it's just a kind of illusion, it doesn't really get at the actual core of love, which is different than that almost druglike experience of just being intoxicated by someone.

>>11511062
OK, sure; I'm willing to accept this, but I'm perplexed on the linguistic basis of a statement like this
>Fornication falls under the category of "sexual immorality"
From my (admittedly light) research, fornication as English dictionary defined comes from Paul's πορνεία, *the* word he uses in the New Testament to refer to a holistic range of sexual immorality; what exactly does that sexual immorality entail? Where are our ideas from that coming from, and are they consistent with theology and the rest of the Old Testament?

If you want to say πορνεία refers to the Eternal moral laws expressed in the Old Testament, I'm willing to agree with that. [Though Paul says it is better to not lie with or even touch women and John reiterates the glory of male virginity in Revelations...]

But then does not much of New Testament break down, then? Maybe my brain holds false ideas about a new covenant bought by Christ's blood but I don't think Christians adhere much to other Jewish law -- why did Paul stress that and destress consumption of meat sacrificed to idols, for example? Was it so social order could cohere? That sort of thing fluctuates.

The immortal mythopoetic examples in Genesis defy marriage in our basic understanding also. The Davidic lines were rife with polygamy and I doubt Solomon enjoined all his strange women through lavish ceremony; unless you take Solomon's Song as a metaphor, that too hardly extols much above the sexual union of man and woman.

It's obviously good to not be degenerate and fuck everyone but common sense sees that marriage as a secular institution is not as it were in yore days; decadence has eroded our intolerance for evil, and I don't want to erode it further, but I also do not see much above the spurious for the conventional scriptural arguments in this regard. I'd like that to change.

>>11510892
John 1:9

>>11511098
Okay, I believe you. What do you identify as love then?

>>11511100
So I can fornicate all I want as long as I ask for forgiveness?

>>11511110
>What do you identify as love then?
might sound weird but it is actually just seeing the person as themselves without attaching them to you. When youre in a close relationship with someone you see so much of them that they hide from the world, such a deeper picture. Most people i think get confused becaue they want to like merge with the person in a form of ecstasy, but this prevents you from seeing them as what they actually are because you're confusing you and them into one. Love for me is this absolute intimacy and trust but it is always separate, its beauty is like an immense distance of clear air that unite two shores. the dyonisian intensity of romantic obsession that culminates in sex or other releases i consider to be infused with love, but also with other elements that aren't love.

>>11510892
Just get married Anon...

>>11511110
Uh, what? Oh, you mean First Epistle of John 1:9. I guess that might work too, although it always seemed to me like abusing a loophole.
I meant Gospel of John 1:9 and the Inward Light.

>>11511062
>You can't.
You can want, but you shouldn't feed such desires.

Read Tolstoy's The Kreutzer Sonata, it'll help.

>>11510892
The same way I reconcile having sex with women other than my wife: many important people in the Bible.

>>11511378
>sex with women other than my wife
kill yourself, Satan

>>11511378
many important people did it in the Bible
>>11511382
>Abraham fucked his handmaid and made a child with her
>Jacob did the same and had two wives
>David had six wives

>>11510892
this is why i'm volcel

>>11510892
I fornicate in strictly monogamous and loving relationships. I also repent every now and then.
Sucks, but the flesh is weak.
Hopefully will get married this year and that'll end.

>>11510892
>how do you reconcile being a christian and wanting and willing to do premarital sex with everything against fornication in the bible?
I don't.
I do not want nor am willing.
I'm waiting till marriage.

how do you reconcile being a christian and sitting where a menstruating woman has sat with the clear prohibition in the bible?

how do you reconcile being a christian and eating fat with the clear prohibition in the bible?

how do you reconcile being a christian and killing a home invader during daylight hours with the clear prohibition in the bible?

how do you reconcile being a christian and wearing clothes made of mixtures of materials with the clear prohibition in the bible?

how do you reconcile being a christian and disobeying your owner with the clear prohibition in the bible?

>>11511731
>Deuteronomeme
Jesus made it obsolete.

>>11511741
I knew you would reply this way, so I threw in some from the New Testament.
Too bad you don't even read the label on the opium, huh?

>>11511747
>nice try but i was wearing my bulletproof fedora

>>11511758
>Make a fool of yourself
>better post an atheist meme

>>11511747
the NT stuff is fine, the OT ceremonial laws that are obsolete and fulfilled are obsolete and fulfilled.
Step your game up, nihilist.

>>11511776
>Owning slaves is perfectly kosher
Yeah, okay fren

>>11511789
it's not ideal, but if you own slaves you should treat them well, and if you are a slave you should do your best.
it's not inherently wrong, or abusive.

>>11511776
>Step your game up, nihilist
>Christian calling anyone a nihilist
>what are Ecclesiastes and friends

>mfw i discover the liberal philosophies of the enlightenment did not emancipate men or guarantee their freedoms for their sake, or to fulfill a noble ideal of divine birthright to all men, but rather so the state could take over the contract of indentured servitude

>>11511823
>>Ecclesiastes

Did you read all of it?
"The words of the wise are like goads, and like nails firmly fixed are the collected sayings; they are given by one Shepherd. My son, beware of anything beyond these. Of making many books there is no end, and much study is a weariness of the flesh. The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, with every secret thing, whether good or evil."

In the end the whole book is an exposition on the 1st Commandment. The meaning of life is to love God. Anyone who does not have God has nothing, because everything else is vanity and perishable.

>>11511851
>i-it's not nihilistic if you have an imaginary friend to make it not meaningless!
this is what christards actually believe

>>11511883
>gets proven wrong
>well I don't LIKE your answer! so there!
lol

>imaginary friend
ironically God is the realist there ever was and will be, everything else is illusory in comparison simply via their transience and contingency

>>11511883
>this is what christards actually believe
not the anon you're talking to but wow, what pointless and weak bantz. your non-existent theos must be proud of you. or rather your brain must be feeling pretty smart and good about itself.

God is an all-encompassing metaphysical entity, probably on another plane of existence. It would be silly if he cares about what some weird monkeys do with their cocks.

>>11511901
God is in the cock

>>11511897
>I don't like that my arbitrary distinction as to what constitutes as nihilism and what doesn't is not accepted by others, so I'll just completely disregard it
Fairly typical

>>11511898
Nice non-argument

>>11511901
Whatever God creates he cares about.

"Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows."

>>11511910
Nihilism says life is ultimately meaningless, truth and morality are relative and also meaningless.

Christianity says the opposite. Life, truth and morality are inextricably linked and have significance into eternity.

>>11511923
You cannot simultaneously discard the only ostensibly existing realm of being as transient and meaningless AND argue for the significance of life, anon
There's a very clear dichotomy to be had in those two perceptions of the world

>>11511932
I'm not discarding it, I'm positioning it within its proper context, which includes the material and the immaterial, relative and objective, good and evil, the transient and the eternal. And in it's proper context life, truth, and morality all have coherent meanings.

The problem of nihilism arises when you amputate the world and man from their divine source. And are left with transient and functionally arbitrary phenomena. Of course this will lead to nihilism, you only have half the story in mind, actually less than half.

>>11511953
It can either lead to nihilism, or it can lead to existentialism. Nihilism is only one side of the coin, and to discard any non-spiritual perception of the world just because it gets rid of your notion of intrinsic meaning is dubious at best

>>11511099
>wall of text
You're trying to have a serious discussion with LARP Christians.

>>11511970
>Existentialism
that's just the atheist kicking and screaming as gets pulled down the road towards theism/spirituality.

>>11511985
Guess it's been that way for over half a decade now, then.
Assuming I'm atheist just because I argue against the principles of your Abrahamic religion is telling, though. There's likely to be a creator to this universe, but it's certainly not a personal God and certainly not the bullshit that Judeochristianity has been feeding you.

>>11511998
keep searching, i was in the same place a few years ago.

>>11512035
Dismissing any theological concerns with "IT'S OKAY I WAS LIKE YOU THEN I FOUND JESUS" is such a Christian thing to do.

>>11512038
sperging out about Christians is such a fedora thing to do.

do you seriously not have anything better to do with your time, anon?

>>11512071
It's something to do while waiting for my builds to finish.
Of course, when any attempt at discussion is thwarted by platitudes and complaining about "muh fedora" it's kind of hard to see how I'm the one sperging out.

>>11511831
So they could give it to corporations lul

>>11512038
ok, you think a creator is probable but you dislike how Christianity reveals him, why's that? Maybe you can go in detail.

Do you agree that God's ways might not be self-evident all the time and not subordinate to all our intuitions?

>>11510892
take this where it belongsjavascript:quote('11506416');

>>11511710
This for me as well. You can still be Christian with those desires or having done those though. You don't have to be perfect to be Christian.

>>11512081
>It's something to do while waiting for my builds to finish.
well you're only proving how ignorant you are and shitting up the board with mid-wit bugman nonsense. pls stop.

>>11510892
If you're not willing to give up premarital sex and become celibate for your love of God, then you need to reevaluate your faith. That said, no woman who puts out easily is worth pursuing. Pray that God brings a Christian woman into your life, one who's willing to wait until your wedding night.

>Ecclesiastes 11:9

>>11510892
Antinomianism

>>11512156
Yet another non-argument, you lot really are on a roll.

>>11511099
>But then does not much of New Testament break down, then? Maybe my brain holds false ideas about a new covenant bought by Christ's blood but I don't think Christians adhere much to other Jewish law

Where did you get this idea? Yes they do, the entire pretext of Christian moral code is built on previous Judaic laws and regulations. Yes, they don't adhere to ritual and various custom codes, but the moral core of Judaism is affirmed in Christianity, and carried to even greater extremes. I don't know how you could be confused enough to think that this isn't the case.

>Was it so social order could cohere? That sort of thing fluctuates.

To suggest that Christianity is concerned with "social order" is hilarious. Christianity is inherently subversive.

>The immortal mythopoetic examples in Genesis defy marriage in our basic understanding also. The Davidic lines were rife with polygamy and I doubt Solomon enjoined all his strange women through lavish ceremony; unless you take Solomon's Song as a metaphor, that too hardly extols much above the sexual union of man and woman.


You and I both know why this argument is flawed, so why are you even making it?

>It's obviously good to not be degenerate and fuck everyone but common sense sees that marriage as a secular institution is not as it were in yore days; decadence has eroded our intolerance for evil, and I don't want to erode it further, but I also do not see much above the spurious for the conventional scriptural arguments in this regard. I'd like that to change.

At this point you're trying to move outside of Christian values and therefore the entire conversation becomes moot.

>>11511901

Unfortunately for you and your cock, these weird monkeys also happen to be images of God.

>>11512156
>You can still be Christian with those desires or having done those though.
Sure but don't expect those that are waiting for marriage to choose you as a suitable partner just because you failed and repented.

Why should I marry someone who didn't have the strength to resist temptation and flee when they might have been tempted?

Just because you have sinned and repented doesn't mean there wont be consequences.

>>11511978
You're right. This:
>>11512194
...is just a mass of argumentative autism.
I'll stick to Valentin Tomberg for the time being.

>>11512225
Let those without sin cast the first stone

>>11512225
This is an important lesson people don't seem to understand. It's the same lesson of original sin and the Fall.

>>11512186
What were you looking for? It seems pretty simple that just because you sin that doesn't mean you aren't Christian.
>>11512225
I never implied that others have to look past your deeds, only that you can pray sincerely for forgiveness. I'm a virgin who would only marry another virgin.

>>11512279
>Let those without sin cast the first stone
Well I haven't fornicated nor encourage it.
A bullet for all the openly degenerate and those who promote it is fine with me.

Gotta throw the useless chaff into the fire.

>>11512280
?

>>11512304
Well when people say "you don't have to be perfect" it looks like an excuse to me to not strive to achieve perfection.

>>11512321
You should strive for perfection, yes, but all humans sin. I'd also make sure that I look past at least a little bit when looking for a partner, as nobody is perfect, but virginity is important and not something I can look past.

>>11512225
>tfw no QT Christian gf

Post more

>>11512321
>?
I was referring to the thrust of other anon's position:
>Just because you have sinned and repented doesn't mean there wont be consequences.
That is the same circumstance of Man in the world after being condemned and exiled from the Garden of Eden. This is original sin, and why man is mortal, corruptible, and separate from God until the arrival of Christ. Read Genesis.

Even if you repent in this life, there are still consequences. You are still mortal, you are still vulnerable to temptation and sin. The way back is through Christ, by which one may develop the fruits of the Holy Spirit.

>>11512304
>>11512186 was a misclick, it was meant to be directed to >>11512162
Ad-hominem is just not conductive to the discussion at all.

My girlfriend isn't a Christian, but she's open to old Nordic and Germanic paganism and witchcraft, how do I wake her up to the world of the Lord?

>>11510892
I don't know, I feel like, maybe if it's with your future wife it's ok? I mean, we're in a weird situation these days cause people marry so late... I don't want to start enjoying my wife when we're in our late 20s... Maybe God would be ok with it if you promise you'll marry the girl.

But you have to make sure it's the right one though.

>>11512365
You're the one who needs to wake up pal.

Im almost 30 and still a kissless virgin. At first it was immensely depressing, then came just total apathy, but recently Ive tried to think of it as a blessing in disguise.

Im going to be a better person for it, as long as I truly have faith in the path I took as a sign from God and not just use the religious angle as a mask to hide years of ineptitude or as an excuse to hide behind.

>>11512348
Yes, thanks for the clear up

>>11512344
>You are still mortal, you are still vulnerable to temptation and sin
Yes of course but my point is that, you shouldn't use it as an excuse to sin.

>>11512329
Yes, I agree and some sins have a more "impact" than others. Different consequences as well.

>>11512331
>gf
The only thing you should be is a suitor for her and "courting her"

>>11512365
Maybe read the Bible around her/go to church, etc.

>>11512331

>>11512373
There's barely anything left of Asatru, Prose Edda and Poetic Edda and that's it, while Christianity has a beautiful and vast history of literature spanning from Pagan-Christian legends, Christian philosophy and theology, and a beautiful history of the arts.

All the pagan are was made by Christians, expanded upon by Christians, documented by Christians, and adapted by Christians.

>>11512373

>>11512368
Just marry her if you know she's the one then

>>11512433
>easter eggs are heresy
Plastic/chocolate ones yeah and other commercial Easter stuff, but hard boiled eggs with solid colors/crosses/words are fine and something we do as part as tradition. The egg is a symbol of Christ and the Resurrection, the connection of Heaven and Earth.

>>11512433
>song of songs
lmao

I'm not catholic though.

>>11512368
>I mean, we're in a weird situation these days cause people marry so late.
getting married around 25 for a female is pretty late to me.

> I feel like, maybe if it's with your future wife it's ok?
Why not get married then and there?
Really it's between you and God.
Just have a witness etc.
Unless you want to go through the whole "ceremony" thing.

>Maybe God would be ok with it if you promise you'll marry the girl.
Just get married then.
Don't need to sign some piece of paper.
Just announce that you consider yourselves a married couple.

>>11512430
>Yes of course but my point is that, you shouldn't use it as an excuse to sin.
100% agreed. I knew a man once, an old neighbor, who was a born-again. He had a house full of Christian theology and was quite narcissistic. He believed all one needed was faith in God and going to confession would give him a clean slate. Instead of stopping sinning, he used his church to clear his conscience once a week so he could continue to sin. Truly reprehensible and single-digit IQ understanding of Christ.

>>11510892
Christianity is just a Mushroom cult

>>11512473
The sacrament of marriage in Catholicism requires witnesses and a minister. A full-on wedding is not required, but a priest or other clergy is necessary to perform the rite.

>>11512563
Then do whatever your denomination requires if they do.

>>11510892
>how do you reconcile being a christian and wanting and willing to do premarital sex
You don't?

>>11512473
whodis Queen
i'd for sure premaritally impregnate that

>>11512662
>whodis Queen
Not yours.
Don't be degenerate.

>ywn have an eastern european qt waifu to make a costanza face at you
why live bros

>>11512202
Are all primates? Homo Erectus? Neanderthals?

Did God engineer evolution so that we would evolve to become images of him?

>>11512682
Evolution? lol

>>11512682
tbhwyfamalam I think if instead of being humans we were ayyyys or even those green ruminant things in Half-Life, and kept the same aptitude for the Logos that humans have, we'd still have the same God.

>>11512682
Evolution is fake. Can't believe people still believe that. Not even Darwin fully believed that shit.

>>11512267
>...is just a mass of argumentative autism.

This is just a transparent excuse to not respond to reasonable argument.

>>11512415
Good post anon.
I had a gf in college and I regret a lot of it.
They only long term benefit is the suffering afterwards helped me become a better person.

I went to a Jesuit high school I should have just joined the order upon graduating.

>>11512483
>born again
>degenerate
He wasn't actually born again

>>11512792
You didn't understand my intent. I'm not trying to get a leg up on you; I come to you in complete ignorance. I make no declarations about Christianity; my post is not spliced with Machiavellian rhetoric in order to prove a position. I don't want to be unbecoming but your post is sincerely not helpful. There's no "transparent excuse" to "not respond to reasonable argument" -- I can feel your contention swelling -- and the fact you're operating in this paradigm is enough for me to exit the discussion.
The kind of answer I'm looking for in that walltext post is something much like "Lazarus, Come Forth!", but I don't want to be subsumed by one mind on the matter. /ohwell

>>11513019
And Meditations on the Tarot too.
Tomberg is a monster.

>>11510892
You can't reconcile it, people use mental gymnastics to justify their sins, but that is another thing.

Too much itt is brim with nerd ressentiment at never getting pussy. People aren't trash for premartial sex; we are all prodigal sons. You should have tears in your eyes when reproaching lost Christians, not the lustful indignation you reserve for your enemies.

>>11513161
>>11513187
Who is justifying their sins or reproaching others with resentment from not getting laid? Have seen hardly anything like that itt

>>11513132
monster in a good way?

>>11513681
yes

>>11513187
>You should have tears in your eyes when reproaching lost Christians

This is a modern construction. Contrary to enormously popular belief, you don't have to be an overly emotional pussy to be a Christian, and it is a longstanding tradition, from the founder of the religion on down, to correct sins with hard truths and tough love. Stop putting your western spinelessness onto Christianity.

>>11513019

Shit dude lol, I'm not even sure what to say to you. Excellent bait I guess, here's your (you)

>>11513019
>I can feel your contention swelling

no homo tho

>>11513925
Other than Jesus whipping the money lenders, where in the NT does he take a more tough love approach.
Better yet, when did this "western spinelessness" begin to take form, and where can I learn more about it?

>>11513925
Imagine misreading this hard.
There's a difference between reproaching Christians and confronting Evil.

>>11513937
>where in the NT does he take a more tough love approach

Check out literally anytime he interacts with a Pharisee, that should give you a good start. Continuing on, I'm just gonna throw some shit out off the top of my head:
>Tells adulteress woman to "Go now and sin no more, unless something even worse happens to you!"
>Calls Peter Satan in response to Peter's objection to Jesus's prediction of his death
>When followers tell him his teachings are difficult he responds "Yep, they are." and refuses to sugarcoat or water them down, resulting in losing nearly all of his followers at one point
>Tells his disciples that if a town refuses to receive them to shake the dust off their sandals they leave as "a sign of judgment against that town"

That's what I have off the top. If you want even more fire-spitting Jesus, crack open Revelation sometime. He doesn't pull any punches in there.

95% of Christians would probably detest Jesus if he was doing his thing today, barring the wow factor of the miracles. Sounds like an exaggeration, but its unironically true.

>Better yet, when did this "western spinelessness" begin to take form, and where can I learn more about it?

I'm not sure on that myself, I would be curious for someone else to comment if they know. My hunch is that our particular brand of passive, weak Christianity was slowly developed out of the current western mindset itself, as the presiding values of our current day and age tweaked Christianity to its own suitability. I would suppose this started to happen around the more radical liberal stance started to shape itself, but it may have been earlier. It's probably a gradual process that doesn't have a definite start point, but gun to my head I might peg a guess that the origins of our particular brand has its origins in the 19th century as European culture began to react to its own perceived dominance and exploitation.

>>11510892
Get a grip Chirst larpers, I've slept with 20+ woman, and now I'm in a great marriage for over 5 years. You grow over promiscuity in much the same way you grow over playing hide and seek. For about 6-7 summers it's all you think about and then you don't.

>>11513975
>Imagine misreading this hard.

Do you have any Scriptural evidence to indicate that I've misread? Can you really catch me on anything? I don't think you can. You're just reacting with the cultural mindset you've been conditioned to view Christianity through. If you can prove me wrong I'll gladly recant my statements.

>>11512321
You're no Christian. You're just looking for something to live and fight for. There's nothing degenerate about sleeping around with people looking for a good time. It's litteral horseplay.

>>11512415
You're not. Your relationships will be defined by your ineptitude as a lover, a partner (remember not having a girlfriend also means you're wittless concering the up and downs of life) and so on.

>>11513975
Also

>There's a difference between reproaching Christians and confronting Evil.

I would suggest you refresh yourself both on Jesus's words to the churches in Revelation and on how Paul handles the case of the adulterous man in 1 Corinthians. Also, how the two people who held back money from the church were treated in early Acts. If you think the early leaders of Christianity were "nice guys", you're delusional.

>>11514043

Shit dude, that's pretty uncalled for. I'm guessing you're the same dude who just posted

>>11514033

and you just have an axe to grind, but get a grip

>>11514059
Well the truth hurts. But I don't like being called a degenerate by a bunch of incels. And I certainly don't like my culture being coöpted by a bunch of atheists to frame their vitriol as some kind of holy battle.

Face it, you're not gonna be a great virtuoso lover/ partner, the same way you're not gonna be a great violinist if you start now. Best you can hope for is mediocritty if you put a lot of work in.

This belongs in the fantasy containment board.

>>11514082
>coöpted by a bunch of atheists to frame their vitriol as some kind of holy battle.
Thats a hell of an assumption to make about people either discovering the church, or comming back to the church.

>>11512682
The old science meme.

>>11514082
> But I don't like being called a degenerate by a bunch of incels.

Yeah, it was obvious that was your primary motivation for all your posts from the get-go.

Rest of your post is obviously generated from the same butthurt that shit out the previous ones. You probably got what you wanted out of this thread, why not just head out and feel superior for a while?

>>11512682

Questions questions questions!

>>11514082
>Well the truth hurts.

apparently it does lol, I mean yikes mate. get a little carried away there?

>>11514082
>>11514082

Quit samefagging this thread at a desperate attempt for relevance. Sage.

>>11514082
>my culture
There's no way in hell you're a christian.

>>11511125
Dam! I’m convinced.

>>11510892
You think all those original parts were writed by goats farmers in the middle easts thousands of years ago, and that you are not a farmer and you don't live there nor in that era, there you go problem solved

>>11510892
Has anyone here actually read the Bible. Why the fuck does it talk so much about sacrificing cows and shit and rules pertaining to agriculture. Then there's the constant lists of names in a family tree for no apparent reason.

>>11514319

It's like you understand nothing about Jewish culture. All the shit you asked can be answered easily with just a little effort put into Google searches.

Marriage in the bible is just an intimate relationship. Christianity is a personal religion that deals only with you ajd god. Marriage licenses and priests doing marriage cerimobies in a church and all that is a bastadization of Christianity.

>>11514319
Can't have good genre fiction without tons of filler and overly complicated genology to make up for poor world building

>>11510892
The Bible is not reflective of reality, Jesus was a terrorist, and God does not exist.

>>11512537
>Pull that up Jamie

all these antinomian protestants (but I repeat myself) trying to convince themselves that god wants you to think with your dick lol

>>11511806
>, and if you are a slave you should do your best.
valid point lol

>>11511125
> Love for me is this absolute intimacy and trust but it is always separate, its beauty is like an immense distance of clear air that unite two shores.
nice

>>11510892
>being christian
>not sacrificing it all for God
Do you think you have it on easy mode because Christ suffered so much? The point was you're going to face that suffering too, you're gonna carry that weight. The Cross was meant to be carried not rested upon.

>>11514815
Don't want to respond to the rest but
>Jesus was a terrorist
Jesus was a revolutionary leader who assembled a tight knit band of armed disciples and preached his doctrine, a different value framework than "the system" at the time was operating under, to the multitudes.
I'd argue against the terrorist definition, although the contemporary government must have considered him so.

>>11510892
First of all Jesus literally hung out with whores so

>>11512194
>Where did you get this idea? Yes they do, the entire pretext of Christian moral code is built on previous Judaic laws and regulations. Yes, they don't adhere to ritual and various custom codes, but the moral core of Judaism is affirmed in Christianity, and carried to even greater extremes. I don't know how you could be confused enough to think that this isn't the case.
And where is the delineation made between moral and customary law? Can I wear mixed fabrics without going to Hell?

>>11514059
>>11512321
>Well I haven't fornicated nor encourage it.
You're still a sinner you stupid faggot. This is 101 stuff that you can pick up just by hanging around Christians for long enough (they don't talk to you after church because you put off serial killer vibes when you write shit like):
>A bullet for all the openly degenerate and those who promote it is fine with me.
>Gotta throw the useless chaff into the fire.
You're inconceivably stupid to think this anywhere close to the teachings of Jesus, and what's even more surprising is that you think your Nietzschean fantasy would result in anything less than you getting ovened.

>>11512483
This is what deontological ethics buys you, you fucking retards. Forgiveness, grace, redemption, it's all part of the Christian ethos, and the fact that you're just sitting there judging like the embittered faggots that you are is a perfect show of you not understanding your own religion.

>>11513999
>If you want even more fire-spitting Jesus, crack open Revelation sometime. He doesn't pull any punches in there.
And had also been dead for around a hundred years.

>>11513999
>My hunch is that our particular brand of passive, weak Christianity was slowly developed out of the current western mindset itself, as the presiding values of our current day and age tweaked Christianity to its own suitability.
You're a retard. Liberalism came out of Christian values (or was alternatively just the emergence of bourgeois class interests but also that would mean the whole divine right of kings stuff which was also rooted in Christianity had the idea baked in). Seriously, read a fucking history book about any pre-Axial people, you'll be in for a shock.

>>11511125
You should read Brave New World if you haven't already.

>>11511831

>>11514082
>You
>Christian
Pick one

>inb4 incel LARPer
I am an Atheist, but I have "an axe to grind" with people who're half assed about what they claim to believe. It's like being a Communist but being unwilling to attempt a seizure and equitable redistribution of the 'memes of production'

>>11516409
>conveniently ignores all the very clear prescriptions against sinful deeds given by Jesus and the apostles
The man was a blasphemer. He acted in bad faith, literally taking the Lord's name in vain. Next time think a little harder before trying to sound smart.

>>11516434
pls don't hurt kitten

>>11511901
Yahweh/Allah =/= Azathoth
I like Lovecraft too, but the whole point of the Abrahamic faiths is that He isn't the latter, an uncaring entity presiding over an equally uncaring universe.

>>11516401
>You're still a sinner you stupid faggot.
Never said I wasn't.
I'm not a fornicating degenerate though.
Which has a larger impact on us.

>>11516470
>Which has a larger impact on us.
Sinfulness is a binary quality. It isn't subject to gradation, but if it were, I don't think the Jesus who sat with whores and outcasts would consider sexual impropriety to be worse than enthusiastically celebrating the literal or figurative ovening of one's fellow man.

>>11516443
>Not being saved by faith alone
Costanza.

>>11512433
You're fetishizing religion.

This is also wildly incorrect. I almost married a Catholic woman. She only went to mass on holidays, made the Protestants I grew up around look like paragons of virtue and temperance, only got super religious when it suited her aims, aborted our child, encouraged me to take the sacrament and do other Catholic-exclusive shit as a non-catholic, didn't really read or know the Bible, cheated, nearly constantly tried to set up group sex and public sex, lied about having a baby she gave up for adoption, and after all this still insisted I convert to Catholicism before we get married. Needless to say, instead I dumped her. I'm sure you'll say that she wasn't a real Catholic, but I later learned that all this behavior is actually fairly typical and tame for Catholics.

Once I was cornered by a duo of "street apostles" and they tried to convince me that good works were necessary, and faith wasn't sufficient. The whole thing disturbed me a bit, the fact that these people spent half an hour trying to convince me about their favorite theology, instead of convincing an unbeliever to follow God.

They showed me some part which I don't remember, and said "if this was just a novel nobody would argue about the meaning of this!" which is something I'm sure my fellow /lit/erati would disagree with.

>>11516578
Decrying a 2000 year old religion of 1.3 Billion people because you met one crazy woman is no different than someone turning Protestant because one of the Popes was corrupt

>>11516522
>Costanza.

>self-servingly pretending to have misheard Jesus' teachings even after He told you a million times He is the way and specifically commanded you to "be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
>altering the ministry of Christ to allow yourself to sin in peace
W E W. Yours is truly the lobotomite take on Christian theology. Pic, it's you.

>>11516591
inter-denominational apologetics are a dangerous game my man. we quickly forget how much we have in common.

>>11516609
Yeah, I agree with you. I don't mind differing opinions though, if they're presented respectfully, like in articles that ask the same question from the leaders of different denominations (or differebt religions even), etc.

>>11516602
>to "be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
I guess that's why Jesus convened with whores. I'm not a Christian, but if you're claiming to be, one might think you would not be so easily goaded into uncharitable insults. Do you think you'll roast in Hell for not being perfect, or is it almost like there are entire schools of thought rooted in salvation by faith alone?

Actually, I already know you haven't thought this through as far as I have, because no self-respecting Christian would come within a mile of 4chan. You're just another pathetic casualty of postmodernity desperately clinging to a narrative in the hope it will distract him from the nascent anxieties of modern living. You would be a sympathetic character if you actually cared about other people the way you will claim, but you don't, so you're not.

Now, for the question that really matters: Do you Christians actually go to the hospital to scan for STD before marriage and sex? I have few friends who cited that beside the Bible, one reason they did not condone pre-marriage sex was because safe sex measures did not always work. But when I ask of them about the above, they either admit the thought had never crossed their mind, or even showed hostility to the idea.

What good would abstinence do if your future fiancee secretly has STD, and you are too stupid to do a check-up first?

>>11516640
strawman btfo eternally, will never recover

>>11516640
incidentally consorting with sinners does not equal sinning yourself. but we're all sinners, and you know this. run along on your high horse now. good lad.

>>11516522
>Not being saved by faith alone
If you have faith you'd do your best not to sin. Slip ups are forgiven if you're repentful. If you claim to be faithful but sin continuously, you're either very weak (which is fine, but true faith changes you from the inside, and it would compel you to do more than turn up to confession once a week, eventually) or lying to yourself.

>>11516578
I know about the No True Scotsman fallacy in debate, but can some be a 'real' anything without close adherence to what defines it? You need to walk the walk, simply declaring yourself as something doesn't make it true.

>>11516677
I got tested after a short history of sin and was free from anything, STDs are very uncommon in Christian circles though, and you only really need to be tested if you show symptoms or have had unsafe sex.

>>11510892
You are not a real christiam then.

>>11510892
i realize that the bible was written by a bunch of impotent sand niggers high from the desert heat

>>11516915
I'm a Christian and this got me good.

Don't do things you know are wrong, anon. The bible is pretty clear on this.

>>11517701
But I don't really /know/ if they are wrong.

>>11510892
Just don't do it

>>11517925
If you're a Christian you should know.

>>11517992
I don't think I'm infallible. There's times when certain acts feel right, which feel wrong otherwise.

>>11510892
people in bible days were marrying and having kids at like 18

>>11510892
Bible people didn't predict these jezebels getting ass shots and boob implants and lip fillers etc etc we are dealing with tempation that previous generations never even imagined my friends

>>11516714
The Crusader Kings Christian is unironically an international epidemic and if you think I'm wrong, it's because you're not paying attention.

>>11516726
My point was not that convening with sinners was problematic by itself, but that Jesus was clearly not saying "If you're imperfect, don't bother." It's a central tenet of every denomination I know of that Jesus lived a perfect life that we can strive to emulate, but can never actually achieve (because we are all sinners).

>>11516728
You could also just be stupid, which for the sake of Christians I would hope is not a disqualifier.

>>11516578
That's an extreme but Catholics in general tend to skew towards the lower end of the IQ spectrum and thus have a tendency towards that manner of depravity. They also support homosexuality more, I've read.

>>11516594
>one of the Popes
>one
Good joke, Anon.

>>11516578
>You're fetishizing religion
Welcome to /lit/.

dodging god until my test levels drop with age and it's possible

>>11516416
>Liberalism came out of Christian values

That doesn't contradict the post you're quoting. Ideas give rise to new ideas which then turn around and influence the old. See: Judaism to Christianity to Islam. Everyone would agree that Christianity emanated out of Judaism, but it's also undeniable that Christianity then affected and changed Judaism immensely. Same to be said about either option you outlined - Liberalism coming out of Christianity (its not as simple as that) doesn't mean Liberalism was somehow incapable of affecting Christianity itself or perceptions regarding it.

>You're a retard

tl;dr, no u

>>11516375

Just read Paul's letters and pay attention to Jesus's teachings. Fuck dude, it isn't that hard.

>>11516409

You yourself are engaging in fierce judgment right now. How do you not realize your own grotesque hypocrisy? You're a modern Pharisee, insisting on the current religious norms and completely ignorant to how much you yourself transgress what you pretend to hold sacred.

>>11516578
>>11512433
Would fuck Mary, mother of Jesus, any time

>>11518114

Shoo shoo with your bargain bin christianity

Sex makes me sad to think about. I was in love with a girl in HS who was a Christian and I wanted nothing in life other than to marry her one day. We went off to different colleges and while I was tempted many times, I never did anything, because it was only her I thought of, and of the union we would one day have. I found out later she fucked her RA. Just like that. All her talk of being a Christian worked on me, and made me want to be devout, but she herself was so easily tempted into carnal pleasure. 99% of people would just say "who cares if she's not a virgin, you loved her and you should forgive her, she clearly feels regretful about it," but it's the principle of it all. I waited and waited so long for her and she didn't have the decency to do so for me. Now I think about her whenever I meet a girl who claims to be a Christian. Idk I probably have some fucked up internal hatred for women now, I should probably talk to a therapist LOL This was all years ago and I still think about it a lot.

What are some good textbooks on early church history?

>>11520030
>it's the principle of it all

I can't think of a better way to sum up the whole dilemma than this phrase.

>>11520163
Don't let the title fool you. I actually ended up reading after seeing a review complain that Francis is only mentioned in the opening and closing chapter.
The majority of the book is about followers of Christ starting as a cult of desperate martyrs, to the Nicene Council, why Latin was used for mass and scripture despite the Bible being written in Greek and Aramaic, the reformation, and so on.
Its not very in-depth, but it is a good overview.

The author is a devout Catholic, and written a bunch of other books about Catholicism, some historic some theology. Including his own translation and commentary on Augustine's Confessions.
He won a Pulitzer for a book about Lincoln's Gettysburg address for what its worth.