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/lit/ - Literature


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11470634 No.11470634 [Reply] [Original]

Welcome
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Zk6eXvCiuo

As you can see featured is our conservative reading chart, amending after input from /lit/

To start the talk off, I would like to discuss how Joseph de Maistre is the father of right-wing nationalism. This is where he diverges sharply from Edmund Burke (who otherwise coincided with Maistre on many things--indeed, Burke was a major inspiration for Maistre). For Edmund Burke, nations are simply legal corporations (although society itself isn't, as it well known he saw it as a metaphysical bond between the dead, the living and the unborn), in his An Appeal from the New to the Old Whigs (it must be understood that Burke didn't understand Whiggism except in terms of being a Williamite, vs. Jacobite Tories--that is why the Whigs excommunicated him, because at that point the Tories were Williamites as well and Burke was effectively one of them), Burke digs deeply into nationalism produced by the French Revolution, saying by overthrowing their government, they cease to be a nation, since their nationhood is predicated on their government, their sovereign. Maistre takes a radically different approach in his work. Though not French, he sees the French nation as something concrete and not depending on government, but depending on the distinctness of the French people as they were formed by God different from other peoples. He lays out his raw nationalist theory in "The Generative Principle of Political Constitutions", where he sees each nation has being distinct based on a divine purpose. In his other work, he even goes so far as to praise the Jacobins for defending France from Austria, saying first loyalty must always be to nation over internal politics. This in spite of the fact of course that he hated Jacobins politically, but said what they did, the Reign of Terror, and so forth, saved France for dissent in a time of danger. Unlike Burke, Joseph de Maistre doesn't reject the advent of nationalism, rather he absorbs its significance and gives it a right-wing formulation.

>> No.11470669
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11470669

>I will not end this chapter without making a reflection which appears to me of the utmost importance: if such effects have been produced by the suppression of the penalty of death in political crimes, how far would its ravages reach if the suppression were extended to common crimes? Well, now, if there be one thing evident to me, it is, that the suppression of the one involves the suppression of the other at some time more or less distant, and I also think it beyond all doubt, that the suppression of the penalty of death, in both conceptions, leads to the suppression of all human penalties. To suppress the highest penalty in the crimes which attack the security of the State, and with it of the members who compose it, and retain it in those perpetrated only against individuals, appears to me a monstrous inconsistency, which cannot long resist the logical evolution of human events. On the other hand, to suppress as excessive the penalty of death in the one and the other, is the same as to suppress all kind of penalty for inferior crimes; for when a penalty less than that of death is applied to the former, any that may be applied to the latter must be wanting to the laws of just proportion, and will be resisted as oppressive and unjust.

>If the suppression of the penalty of death in political crimes is founded on the negation of political crime, and this negation on the fallibility of the State in these matters, it is clear that every system of penalty falls to the ground; for fallibility in political things supposes fallibility in all moral things, and fallibility in the one and in the other carries with it the radical incompetence of the State to qualify any human action as a crime.

cont

>> No.11470670

Can socialists be conservatives?

>> No.11470677
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11470677

>>11470669
>Well, now, as this fallibility is a fact, it follows that in this matter of penalty all governments are incompetent, because all are fallible.

>One can only be accused of crime by him who can accuse him of sin, and he only can impose penalties for the one, who can impose them for the other. Governments are not competent to impose a penalty on man, except in quality of delegates of God; and human law has power only when it is the commentary of the divine law. The negation of God and of His law on the part of governments, is equal to the negation of themselves. To deny the divine and affirm the human law, to affirm crime and deny sin, to deny God and affirm any government whatever, is to affirm what is denied; and to deny what is affirmed is to fall into a palpable and evident contradiction. Then the blast of revolutions begins to blow, which will soon restore the empire of logic which presides at the evolution of events, suppressing human contradictions with an absolute and inexorable affirmation, or with an absolute and peremptory negation.

cont

>> No.11470684
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11470684

>>11470677
>The Atheism of the law and of the State—or what in the end is the same, but expressed in a different manner, the complete secularisation of the State and of the law—is a theory which does not square well with that of penalty, the one coming from man in his state of separation from God, and the other from God in his state of union with man.

>It would appear that governments know, by means of infallible instinct, that only in the name of God can they be just and strong. And so it happens that when they begin to be secularised, or to separate from God, they immediately relax in their penalties, as if they felt their right diminished. The lax theories of modern criminal jurists are contemporaneous with religious decadence, and their rule in modern codes with the complete secularisation of political powers. Since then the criminal has been so transformed in our eyes, that the children regard as an object of pity what was a subject of horror to their parents. He who yesterday was called a criminal, is to-day called eccentric or mad. Modern Rationalists call crime misfortune. The day shall come when the government will pass into the hands of the unfortunate, and then there will be no other crime but innocence. The theories on penalty held in absolute monarchies in their days of decay, were followed by those of the Liberal schools, who brought them to the present pass. After the Liberal come the Socialistic schools, with their theory of holy insurrections and heroic crimes. Nor shall these be last; for away there on the far-off horizon new and more bloody auroras begin to dawn. The new gospel of the world is perhaps being written in a prison; the world will only get what it deserves, when it is evangelised by the new apostles.

Those who made people believe that the earth can be a paradise, have made them more easily believe it can be a paradise without blood. The evil is not in the illusion; it is in the fact that, precisely on the moment and hour the illusion would be believed by all, blood would flow even from the hard rocks, and earth would be transformed into hell. In this obscure and lowly valley man cannot aspire to an impossible happiness, without incurring the misfortune of losing the little he has

>> No.11470690
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11470690

>>11470670
You mean like Blue Labour?

>> No.11470700

>>11470670
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternalistic_conservatism

>> No.11470714

Hoping this thread stays up. The other conservative general should either be linked or kept active as well.

>> No.11470722

>>11470690
I suppose but I meant more like in general. Like if blue labour are conservatives then could Marxist-Leninists be conservatives? Could AnComs be conservatives? Is there a point at which one is too socialist to be considered conservative?

>> No.11470727

>>11470700
Wouldn't the idea of maintaining a class-based society not be very socialist?

>> No.11470733

Calhoun's theory of a concurrent majority is quite simple
http://theprincetontory.com/john-c-calhouns-concurrent-majority/

What he is advocating for is basically an updated estate system
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estates_of_the_realm

In a concurrent majority system advocated by Calhoun, each interest (clergy, soldiers, landowners, proles, etc.) would elect representatives separately from among their own, and each body would have an independent vote and veto. This would allow from both a stronger class identity and a strong class protection for many groups (both lower and upper), as opposed to excessive control by merchants and financiers.

>> No.11470737

>>11441645
Linking this here for reference and in case anyone from here has more to contribute.

>> No.11470742

>>11470670
read lasch

>> No.11470746

>>11470722
Conservatism begins as a rejoinder against Locke, whereas leftism is an attempt complete him and fix his contradictions. If it's about maximizing individual "sovereignty", or if it's based on individual consent, then it's not conservative.

>>11470727
Well see Junger's "The Worker". But yes, generally speaking, conservatism places tremendous importance on class and private property. Socialist elements can only come from stuff like guild and church ownership.

>> No.11470749

>>11470634
How to reorient public life toward virtue? Reading suggestions for that will be appreciated.

>> No.11470753
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11470753

>>11441714
>Novelty is not the only source of zeal. Why should not a Maccabeus and his brethren arise to assert the honour of the ancient law, and to defend the temple of their forefathers, with as ardent a spirit as can inspire any innovator to destroy the monuments of the piety and the glory of ancient ages? It is not a hazarded assertion, it is a great truth, that when once things are gone out of their ordinary course, it is by acts out of the ordinary course they can alone be re-established. Republican spirit can only be combated by a spirit of the same nature: of the same nature, but informed with another principle, and pointing to another end. I would persuade a resistance, both to the corruption and to the reformation that prevails. It will not be the weaker, but much the stronger, for combating both together. A victory over real corruptions would enable us to baffle the spurious and pretended reformations. I would not wish to excite, or even to tolerate, that kind of evil spirit which invokes the powers of hell to rectify the disorders of the earth. No! I would add my voice with better, and I trust, more potent charms, to draw down justice and wisdom and fortitude from heaven, for the correction of human vice, and the recalling of human error from the devious ways into which it has been betrayed. I would wish to call the impulses of individuals at once to the aid and to the control of authority. By this, which I call the true republican spirit, paradoxical as it may appear, monarchies alone can be rescued from the imbecility of courts and the madness of the crowd. This republican spirit would not suffer men in high place to bring ruin on their country and on themselves. It would reform, not by destroying, but by saving, the great, the rich, and the powerful. Such a republican spirit, we perhaps fondly conceive to have animated the distinguished heroes and patriots of old, who knew no mode of policy but religion and virtue. These they would have paramount to all constitutions; they would not suffer monarchs, or senates, or popular assemblies, under pretences of dignity, or authority, or freedom, to shake off those moral riders which reason has appointed to govern every sort of rude power. These, in appearance loading them by their weight, do by that pressure augment their essential force. The momentum is increased by the extraneous weight. It is true in moral, as it is in mechanical science. It is true, not only in the draught, but in the race. These riders of the great, in effect, hold the reins which guide them in their course, and wear the spur that stimulates them to the goals of honour and of safety. The great must submit to the dominion of prudence and of virtue, or none will long submit to the dominion of the great.

>"Dis te minorem quod geris imperas."

>This is the feudal tenure which they cannot alter.

>> No.11470755

>>11470733
>House of Poorfags passes The National Health Service and Taxes Higher Than 0.000001% act.
>House of Richfags vetos

Yes I can't see this being dysfunctional at all.

>> No.11470757

>>11470749
If you want theoretical/philosophical stuff I'd suggest a ton of great resources in here >>11447421
Definitely look into MacIntyre and ask around that thread if you have any questions about him.

>> No.11470759

>>11470749
*Your* public life, or do you mean in terms of state policy?

>> No.11470762

>>11470755
It's quite simple, you have more than one article on a bill.

>> No.11470763

>>11470746
> But yes, generally speaking, conservatism places tremendous importance on class and private property.
Are there any examples of conservatives that are indifferent to or even against these things?

>> No.11470766

>>11470755
Care to explain the
Income Tax Act 1842 passed, since the richfags were the only ones with representation?

>> No.11470775

>>11470763
No, typically speaking. Conservatives who see a class of people without property, working for a class of people with property, as an issue, tend to rather be distiributists, even if they think workers should own some things in common (through guilds or such). Read The Servile State on this, which is a conservative work which sees a class of people without property working for those with, as a problem.

>> No.11470827

What's the sentiment here about Hoppe's defense of feudalism?

>> No.11470870

>>11470757
>>11470759
Thanks for the suggestions. I've been reading a lot of Strauss lately and am a bit frustrated that he gives no suggestions as to how to apply morality properly to society. So I'm asking more in a state policy sense. Will check out MacIntyre though.

>> No.11470880

>>11470870
State-policy wise, I suggest you read The Natural Family: A Manifesto (the full edition, not the fifteen page pdf). Morality requires cohesive families and community, which is not possible when the state is actively working to break them apart.

>> No.11470901

>>11470870
No problem. I'll probably be back on tonight if you need anything else. Honestly just pop into the thread and look over things, post a bit, and you'll probably find the people there have a lot to offer on this matter.

>> No.11470943
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11470943

Lately I've been interested in Nazi (and other related) political projects for promoting autarky, green and environment-friendly living, and healthy population-management and social-engineering, and rejecting globalism, capitalism, international finance capital especially, etc.

I've been particularly interested in Feder and the Strasser brothers. I wonder what a relatively peaceful, non-hideous demi-fascist Europe would have looked like on the model of Red Vienna..

I am against totalitarianism and thought control, and very pro-individualist, in a classical and not hedonistic sense. I like the idea of a "politics of excellence" but not of totalitarian slavery.

>> No.11470950

>>11470943
Centralized social engineering is innately totalitarian.

>> No.11470952
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11470952

>>11470870
>Thanks for the suggestions. I've been reading a lot of Strauss lately and am a bit frustrated that he gives no suggestions as to how to apply morality properly to society. So I'm asking more in a state policy sense.

How about Strauss+Girard?

>Thiel notes that Girard, Strauss, and Schmitt, despite various differences, share a conviction that “the whole issue of human violence has been whitewashed away by the Enlightenment.” His dense and wide-ranging essay draws from their writings an analysis of the failure of modern secular politics to contend with the foundational role of violence in the social order.

> humans choose objects of desire through contagious imitation: we desire things because others desire them, and we model our desires on others’ desires. As a result, desires converge on the same objects, and selves become rivals and doubles, struggling for the same sense of full being, which each subject suspects the other of possessing. The resulting conflicts cascade across societies because the mimetic structure of behavior also means that violence replicates itself rapidly. The entire community becomes mired in reciprocal aggression. The ancient solution to such a “mimetic crisis,” according to Girard, was sacrifice, which channeled collective violence into the murder of scapegoats, thus purging it, temporarily, from the community. While these cathartic acts of mob violence initially occurred spontaneously, as Girard argues in his book Violence and the Sacred, they later became codified in ritual, which reenacts collective violence in a controlled manner, and in myth, which recounts it in veiled forms. Religion, the sacred, and the state, for Girard, emerged out of this violent purgation of violence from the community. However, he argues, the modern era is characterized by a discrediting of the scapegoat mechanism, and therefore of sacrificial ritual, which creates a perennial problem of how to contain violence.

https://thesocietypages.org/cyborgology/2016/08/13/mimesis-violence-and-facebook-peter-thiels-french-connection-full-essay/

https://jacobitemag.com/2018/05/14/somebody-wants-to-take-down-nick-land/

>> No.11470974

>>11470634
>no mcluhan

>> No.11470978

>>11470670
socialism is too vague

>> No.11470991

>>11470952
That's pretty interesting and I was thinking about cross-reading Strauss with Schmitt but do they talk about how to institutionalise these ideas?

>>11470880
Thanks, I will look into that.

>>11470901
I just started reading. Looks good so far.

>> No.11471002
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11471002

>>11470727
You have to keep in mind the etymological origin of socialism, as well the ultimate teleology of it, its goal, namely human solidarity. This variant of socialism starts from an individual that is entangled in all sorts of relationships and communities: family, friends, church, language, country... with each community come different, local duties and responsibilities, and these conservatives I linked call for an obligation for the strong and the wealthy to protect and help the weak and the poor, whichever the particular relationship: help your wife, fellow Christians, countrymen, etc. In other socialisms, which claim to be the only socialism possible, true, etc. you and your fellow human beings will be considered either members of a stateless, class-conscious, international, politically active, militant proletariat on the right side of history, or a Lumpenproletariat consisting of supposedly class-unconscious criminals or quasi-criminals who live at the margins of the society before, during and after the great Revolution, malevolent freeloaders who are accused of exploiting the society for their own ends.

>> No.11471003

>>11470991
The threads involving MacIntyre usually are pretty good and intellectual. Shame they are often hard to keep active though. I second everyone else who suggested Lasch. Tried making a few threads about him and critics of neoliberalism but the mods didn't like that wrongthink. Maybe someone else could try their hand at making a thread like that sometime?

>> No.11471015

>>11471003
Lasch is on the reading chart. I also really like his critique of meritocracy

>> No.11471079

>>11470974
the californian question can't be ignored. most of the major cultural, technological, organizational and economic transformations of the last 70 years or so, even the expressive value system, the emotional and psychological regime that structure our daily lives, can be traced back to 60s california and on to wwii and cold war era think tanks. The collaborative postfordist labor regime owes its existence to wwii military research culture as does the distributed network model, meant to preserve the chain of command in the event of a full scale nuclear war. doesn't 'Alexa' sound suspiciously like 'ELIZA'?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/78691781-c9b7-30a0-9a0a-3ff76e8bfe58

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/843165bf-1e69-3dec-873e-973fc8e604a5

>> No.11471155

>>11471015
I know, he just needs his own thread again honestly.

>> No.11471625

bump

>> No.11471746

Most of these books look boring and prude. Judging by the cover I can say I could only find mostly available only in really shitty pdf.

>> No.11471751
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11471751

>>11471746
>He judges a book by the cover

>> No.11472129

>>11471746
If you can get a PDF of On Divorce, that would be nice, senpai

>> No.11472154

What are some must-reads for someone who sees managerial capitalism as the natural enemy of conservatism and wants to know more about its history, internal dynamics, ideology, and what is to be done about it?

>> No.11472169

>>11472154
Lasch definitely sees that problem but I can't recall how well he goes into all of these things you've mentioned. Maybe another Lasch anon could fill in some of this and help us get a reading list going.

>> No.11472209

>>11470634
Are there any conservative authors that support state aid to the poor? My biggest issue with conservatives here in America is that they seem to value lower taxes and deregulation over the welfare of their fellow man. Christ calls us to help the downtrodden, not ignore him or tell him that the free market will fix it.

>> No.11472244

>>11472209
Pretty sure there are a few conservatives who are interested in Universal Basic Income (UBI) as a solution to welfare issues.

>> No.11472268

>>11472209
Communitarians like Alasdair MacIntyre.

>> No.11472563

>>11472268
This.

>> No.11472652

>>11472209
Conservative support for welfare is called "one-nationism". I personally support it on a community level, but not as an alternative to community and marriage (which it is functioning as).

>> No.11472685

Are establishment Republicans fusionists or neoconservatives?

>> No.11472728

>>11472685
modern republicans are nihilists with tax cuts.

>> No.11472754

>>11472209
the two main parties are unconditional servants of capitalist deterritorialisation

>> No.11472767
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11472767

>>11470634
serious question: what should be done about women?

>> No.11472797 [DELETED] 

Reminder that conservatives are all brainlets and there has not been a single respectable conservative thinker in the past half-century.
Reminder that conservatives are generally just assholes looking for big words to justify their assholishness.
Reminder that conservatives should be shunned from civil society and that if you find out someone is a conservative you should point at them and laugh.

Reminder that the same goes for centrists and liberals.

>> No.11472799 [DELETED] 
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11472799

>>11472797
*snap*

>> No.11472804 [DELETED] 

>>11472799
She'll never have sex with you anon.

>> No.11472829 [DELETED] 
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11472829

>>11472804
>He goes for the sex insults

>> No.11472922

>>11472685
Formerly neocon, but now not quite either. Fusionists are very much against tariffs. They're light-weight paleocons right now

>>11472767
If it were up to me, employer discrimination against them should be legal, maternity leave should be abolished, and they shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Yes, I'm sexist. No, I don't hate women, in fact they are very often more mature and intelligent than men. But a kid is also often more mature and intelligent than adults. Not to compare women to kids, but I mean in the sense that both need someone else to be their caretaker. If you take away even a smart kid's caretaker, he would turn into a brat. Same with women, because they don't want the authority, they say they want to be responsible for themselves, but they really *don't* want responsibility. If they get drunk and have sex, they don't want to be responsible for it (I don't mean a man raping a drunk woman, I mean a woman getting horny when she's drunk). If they get pregnant, they say, "NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY". If they have kids out wedlock, they won't get married, they'll say, "I vote the state pays for my kids instead of being responsible and settling down".

This is gradually less of a problem with older women. But with younger women, they absolutely cannot and should not be responsible for themselves, a man, either their father or husband, must be responsible for them.

>> No.11473072
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11473072

Are Mark R. Levin's books good?

>> No.11473091

>>11473072
I don't know, I don't follow him. I'm personally a hardcore paleoconservative

>> No.11473095 [DELETED] 
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11473095

Is conservatism the new umbrella for plebs, retards and anti-intellectuals?

>> No.11473104 [DELETED] 
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11473104

>>11473095
If you're so smart, I'm sure you can come up with a better criticism than that.

>> No.11473105 [DELETED] 
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11473105

>>11473095
*snap*

>> No.11473115
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11473115

>>11470670
Yes, they're called Juche or NazBol Gang.

>> No.11473122 [DELETED] 
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11473122

>>11473104
Yeah, your insecurities are projected all over this thread. Misogyny? Really? Conservative conversation can be goo without it, but you have to be so beta to start with this.

>> No.11473143 [DELETED] 

>>11473122
I am sexist, but not really misogynist. I have zero hatred for women, in fact I love women. They're great, and I get along quite well with them.

Take a hike, pinko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hedkBm3Ud3Q

>> No.11473150 [DELETED] 

>>11473122
>ur beta
please shut the fuck up and fuck off if you don't have actual points

>> No.11473152 [DELETED] 
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11473152

>>11473143
You are insecure, all you project on your fears of women becoming your boss is pitiful.

Shame on those so full of fear of change, because they may fall in conservatism.

>> No.11473155 [DELETED] 
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11473155

>>11473150
So insecure, so beta.

>> No.11473159 [DELETED] 
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11473159

>>11473152
The only good things on that list are the last three, everything else was a mistake.

>> No.11473165 [DELETED] 
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11473165

I would rather not waste my time with this yet another attempt by /pol/ at forcing politics on /lit/.

Please leave the board Stormfront, we know is you.

>> No.11473166 [DELETED] 

>>11473152
Liberalism is done, we're filling the court with our guys. We're not interested in a slow surrender to you. It's over, pal. You can whine all you want about how I should see women as equals, but I never will. I love them, I cherish them, they are important for men as men are important for them. But women and men are not fungible. In fact, humans in general aren't, we aren't equal, we never will be. It's time you faced reality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvpfIKn7BI8

>> No.11473176 [DELETED] 

>>11473165
Whatever you say, master of the boogeyman!

>> No.11473217 [DELETED] 

>>11473166
conservatism is done. 'your guys' won't reverse gay marriage or make abortion illegal, and it's not like most 'conservatives' are still concerned with those things anyways. it's all about scoring points now. you get to 'own the libs' somehow, the oligarchy gets free rein to amass ever vaster piles of money and deterritorialize what's left of your 'traditional' society through relentless technological innovation. that's because you have lost anything actually worth conserving.

>> No.11473299

Hmm the thread is starting to disappear it seems?

>> No.11473319

>>11473299
Mods did a good job of pruning the digression from actual conservative literature

>> No.11473367

>>11470670
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inejiro_Asanuma

>> No.11473453
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11473453

>>11473319
Based right-wing mod squad.

>> No.11473461
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11473461

What is a good book debunking conservatist bullshit?

>> No.11473481

>>11473461
What kind of conservative bullshit? Like general reactionary/tranditionalist though, American neo-liberal conservatism, racism/elitism/sexism, capitalism or more conspiratorial stuff like Holocaust denial/cultural Marxism? Also, regardless of your answer, you might want to make a thread for this, I don't think people here are interested those kinds of books (or at least have them on hand).

>> No.11473491
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11473491

>>11473481
Give me your best recommendation, I don't want to clutter /lit/ with more than one /pol/ tier thread on political bullshit.

>> No.11473503

>>11473481
I like the term 'cultural marxism' because it pisses all the right people off.

>> No.11473511
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11473511

>>11473503
Oh, like fascists hated being called nazis. Good idea.

>> No.11473516

>>11473453
Yes. Before they kept deleting this general. Now they are purging to keep it in order. Sound moderators right now.

>> No.11473522

>>11473491
>Shoenberg was actually attempting to revival the classicals

You don't know what you're talking about. Also Wagner was degenerate, the Nazis were idiots for idolizing romanticist music. Vivaldi for life

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jCKbHDN5os

>> No.11473523
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11473523

>>11473516
As we are talking meta here, did the white supremacists manage to infiltrate a mod in /lit/?

>> No.11473541

>>11473511
i am not a right winger or a conservative as much as i am anti leftist, i just find you freaks insufferable.

>> No.11473546
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11473546

>>11473541
So much hate. Also implying I am a leftist so much as an anti right fuckers, I am shocked. can we keep the conversation polite or are /pol/tards this violent always?

>> No.11473549

>>11473523
Why don't you calm down, pinko? No one is shitposting here except you. If you can't make quality posts, please remove yourself to the thread on Marx

>> No.11473555
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11473555

>>11473549
Why the hate? I am just making questions, didn't made any political commentary except by agreeing with you. I was always polite.

>> No.11473563

>>11473555
I don't think the question is about the mods being white supremacist, just not communists

>> No.11473573 [DELETED] 
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11473573

>>11473563
Doesn't answer my question senpai. Dodging the question whether mods are part of the white supremacists is rather fishy knowing all the threads about politics we see on /lit/ not getting removed but other do. It really makes you think.

>> No.11473591

>>11473573
I don't know if they are, and frankly I don't care so long as they aren't shitty mods. They didn't remove the thread on Marxism either.

>> No.11473594 [DELETED] 
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11473594

>>11473591
But they are shitty mods if they have bias, and I didn't see a thread on Marxism either.

>> No.11473597

>>11473594
>>11468847

>> No.11473601
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11473601

>>11473597
That's an anti-marxist thread. Is now marxism if it is anti-marxism? Did you made it?

>> No.11473607

>>11473601
Lol no, I've read Marx and I'm a fan of Christopher Lasch

>> No.11473611

>>11473607
Literally who?

>> No.11473615

>>11473611
A Marxist whose work is popular with conservatives.

>> No.11473617

>>11473615
How does he do it?

>> No.11473634

>>11473617
By writing books instead of shitposting

>> No.11473635

>>11473634
Did you actually read him?

>> No.11473643

>>11473635
Sure. I don't agree with his fetish for democracy, but his criticism of capitalism and individualism are based as fuck. Here is an article which talks about him quite a bit if you're interested

https://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2009/05/the-decline-of-middle-america-and-the-problem-of-meritocracy/

>But it is precisely from the perspective of the “workingman” that this lyrical, Whiggish view of progress has been challenged. Christopher Lasch’s indictment of meritocracy, best articulated in his final work, The Revolt of the Elites and the Betrayal of Democracy (1995), is especially insightful.

>One consequence of meritocracy, Lasch argues, is that the elites in such a system become “dangerously isolated” from their neighbors. Because meritocracy requires that populations-and especially elites-be exceptionally mobile, loyalty to community, region, and nation become severely attenuated.

>> No.11473658

>>11473643
Sounds interesting. Is The Revolt of the Elites and the Betrayal of Democracy his best?

>> No.11473673

>>11473658
The Culture of Narcissism (which argued that pathological narcissism was being promoted as the new norm) is the one I put on the reading chart, but they're both top notch

>> No.11473680 [DELETED] 
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11473680

>>11473673
Thanks, I'll check those. Is it right to think he views meritocracy as harmful for the elites?

>> No.11473690

>>11473680
He thinks it is harmful for everyone in terms of immaterial concerns, but mainly his concern is that he sees it as turning the poor into a resource which is "stripmined" for talent, which is then educated and moved elsewhere, away from their community, and set to work in an elite neighborhood which has its lower class labor shuffled in from poorland during the day, and shuffled back during the night

See also

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/how-the-greenwashed-liberal-gentry-keep-out-the-rabble/

>> No.11473958

bump

>> No.11474195

How about the traditionalists?

>> No.11474222

>>11470634
>conservatism
>not fascism

>> No.11474226
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11474226

>>11474222
Start a Fascism general please anon. I'm honestly interested in seeing how long it'll be allowed to stay up.

>> No.11474901

>>11474195
I prefer orthodox Christianity

>>11474222
Not interested in a "managerial state"

>> No.11475204

>>11474901
Tell me more about Orthodoxy then. Suggest some readings.

>> No.11475227

>>11474222
>fascism
>not esoteric hitlerism

>> No.11475325

>>11475227
Big if true. General for this when?

>> No.11475396
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11475396

>>11475325
ALL HAIL THE BLACK SUN! Hitler=Kalki Quetzalcoatl Solar Christus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSseSXIQBbY

>> No.11475404

>>11475396
I need more. General soon?

>> No.11475471

>>11473522
Anton Webern considered himself a pangermanic patriot, which mostly meant he liked folk songs and wandering in the alps. the nazis blacklisted him for having studied under Schoenberg, not that his work was really popular beforehand. Webern was accidentally shot by an American GI during the immediate postwar period.the work of the second vienese school really is the logical continuation of german romanticism, despite the impression you might get from its postwar avantgarde successors who strove to reject all identifiable traditions and make their music as forbidding as possible. Webern's sole symphony is actually a pastoral work of a sort.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBf2K4S4Nmk

Alban Berg is the most accesible of the bunch and dabbled in the neobarroque and neoclassical trends of the early 20th century. His violin concerto includes an extended Bach quotation for one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd0dMs0MTg8

>> No.11475566
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11475566

>>11471746
>judging by the cover

>> No.11475657

>>11475566
Based Boomer poster

>> No.11475677

liberals can't meme but most conservative books are fucking dumb

>> No.11475712

>>11475396
Jason, the dude chanting, does a lot to promote Serrano but damn is his neofolk project terrible.

>>11475325
I wish.

>> No.11476332
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11476332

>>11475677
*snap*

>> No.11476530
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11476530

>>11475204
>>11474901
Check out traditionalist Catholicism instead of Orthodox heresy.

>> No.11476553

>>11476530
Check out Orthodox traditionalism instead of Catholic heresy.

>> No.11476977

>>11473491
I liked Imagined Communities which tackles nationalism.

>> No.11477235

>>11474222
Disgusting

>> No.11477532

The Decline of the West - Oswald Spengler

>> No.11477703

>>11474222
>3rd Reich 9years
>2nd Reich 50years
>1st Reich 1000 years, but still lives on in Switzerland and Liechtenstein, the best countries to live in on several metrics.

Why does nobody want to force the pope to make Hans-Adam II emperor of the Romans?

>> No.11478292
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11478292

Hey guys! My name is Ian and I would like become a conservative. Can you all please help me out?

>> No.11478315

>>11473617
In the 1979 bestseller, the Culture of Narcissism Lasch argues white people should be able to say the n-word

>> No.11478878

>>11478315
Can someone please post pics of the pages in which he argues this? Hah Lasch is awesome.

>> No.11479023

>>11470634
So OP is this going to become a regular thing? You should number the threads as well. Best of luck with this much needed thing!