/lit/ - Literature

He didn't engineer shit. He told them not to eat it. They could either:
>A. Not fucking eat it
>B. Eat it

They had a choice, and they decided to do the one that would earn God's wrath.

Sounds like OP is a filthy determinist.

>>11415630
I guess what I don't understand is why he put it there. Why did God bring sin into the world?

>>11415618
Adam had free will though. But God controls everything, but also you have free will. So you're responsible for your actions even when God made you do them. I don't know, man, you figure it out.

>>11415618
because the Fall was a necessary part of God's plan

>>11415643
he didn't, sin (the possibility of evil/error) is a pre-condition and logical consequence of freedom

>>11415643
Your children have to grow up some time. He gave them the choice. If it wasn't there, there wouldn't be a choice.

>>11415630
He told them not to eat it, but he, God, with his infinite intelligence and perfect knowledge of his creations, couldn't predict that they'd fucking eat it anyway?

>>11415648
That actually makes sense to me. God made man in his image, therefore with a propensity to create, a prerequisite to creativity is freedom. Freedom entails being able to choose to do good or to do wrong.

>>11415660
you're literalizing a story about our being sundered from the primal unity and fall into duality. think abstractly

>>11415666
actually, if God is good, only the capacity to do evil guarantees the existence of freedom/our difference from him as finite creatures. hence, evil is the pre-condition of our fallen state, hence original sin.

>>11415660
He knows they're going to eat it. But he can't just stop them from doing it, otherwise what would be the point of creating them.

>>11415674
>what would be the point of creating them.
Good question.

>>11415678
so finitude might know the infinite as only finitude can

>>11415674
He could have created humans who would never eat from the tree, while still retaining their freedom to do so. That he didn't must mean he wanted humans he knew would disobey.

>>11415618
There were two trees, the tree of life and the tree of knowledge. Humanity (Adam) ate from the tree of knowledge even though the tree of life was intended for us. Ever since then God has been trying to convince us that the tree of life was the correct choice even tho the consequences of the tree of knowledge lead us to believe this is not the case. Jesus embodies the tree of life -- yr life is a battle over the soul between body (Satan/knowledge) and spirit (God/Jesus/life)

>>11415680
Those two attributes are contradictory. How could they have the freedom to eat it if they were predestined not to.

>>11415645
This is actually true btw

>>11415680
because you don't appreciate something until it's lost, the Fall was God's plan to arrive at a fuller, more conscious love of Himself

>>11415686
In the same way that God is free to do anything but will not act in ways contrary to his nature.

One more reason why I prefer to believe in Goku instead of God.

He's the Absolute Being, but didn't create the universe or mankind. At least I don't think he did, maybe someday he'll go back to the beginning and it'll turn out the Big Bang was one Big Kamehameha.

But I digress... Problem of evil? Goku can only fight one enemy at a time, buddy. Can he create a rock so heavy even he can't lift it? Goku can't create rocks, but he can lift any rock he wants with enough training. QED. Etcetera.

Goku is the only logically consistent deity to believe in. Prove me wrong.

>>11415713
great post

>>11415713
reddit

>>11415660
it never says anywhere god is omniscient

>>11415660
See these two:

>>11415645
>>11415668

Stop thinking like a dumb evangelical and realize original sin is about the curse of consciousness. Since we are conscious, we are no longer like the other animals and therefore cannot live in the same bliss/the garden like they can can.

>>11415618
>What am I missing?
Calvinism.

I've gotten really sick of New Atheists. They are entirely pre-determined to poke tiny holes in human truths that could help them.

>>11415678
It is necessary for God to create because God is an infinite overflowing abundance.

It's really not that complicated.
>God has all the knowledge
>God forbids man from acquiring said knowledge
>Satan encourages man to defy the oppressor and educate himself
God is the bad guy. It's that simple.

>>11415713
God is before being, God is not a being, not even an absolute being. If your creatura is a being then he is necessarily ontologically below and subsequent to God.

>>11415946
Satan is the transgressive principle within God himself, he needs evil to call his nature forth

>>11415694
Humans have to be the way they are and reality the way it is so that Jesus' life and death could happen the exact precise way that it happened

>>11415618
Your parents love you but they have to get you out of their home at some point. Man was never supposed to be in Eden forever.

Adam was entirely consciously connected with God. When he rebelled, there was a split inside of God's consciousness, basically causing schizophrenia. Christ is a very strange thing, basically if you could send a thinking version of yourself into your own psyche to work out your problems you would. Sounds like a michel gondry movie but that is how i see it. God's wrath is just a reaction to being crazy.

>>11415956
If God is not a being, God isn't even real.

Goku is a being. Thus, in all Goku vs God matches, Goku wins because God doesn't even show up. QED again.

>>11416938
(If God was real and did show up, Goku would be able to defeat him after a short training arc.)

>>11416414
>God's wrath is just a reaction to being crazy.
''It’s a mid-scale tale, intermediate between — say — the inauguration of the Federal Reserve and structural personality disorder of the Godhead.''

http://www.xenosystems.net/the-monkey-trap/

>>11415680
God gives humans absolute free will. What you describe is not absolute free will. God knows all outcomes, but that's because he sees all of time in a single glance. He doesn't predestine anyone for anything, so he couldn't have predestined Adam not to eat the fruit.

Free will has sometimes been called a "terrible freedom," because of the bad consequences it frequently generates. But would you have it any other way?

GOKU VS JESUS
Goku punches Jesus through a wall, not even using 1% of his power level. Jesus can be killed by mundane Romans (average power level: 15) using nails and a crucifix, so Goku's blow shatters his spine and kills him almost instantaneously.

Goku then teleports 3 days into the future and kills Jesus again immediately after his resurrection, then returns to the present and drops his future corpse on the present one. It happens so fast that everyone present (this is at a Tenchi Budokai) can barely believe their eyes.

"Hmph... Who's next?" he asks a gaggle of other religious figures who are sweating.