/lit/ - Literature

>>11383908
The Sumerians

>>11383908
What kind of theology?

>>11384148
The one that's true

>>11384151
Whether you are OP or not, I'd recommend starting with the presocratics, particularly Heraclitus and Parmenides. Anaximander and Anaxagoras, even Thales, are also quite important to the early discussions of natural theology.

>>11383908
The Greeks.
The bible.
Then the church fathers.
Then Aquinas.

In that order.

>>11384230
unironically this

>>11383908

The Bible
The Church Fathers
Orthodoxy up until Symeon the New Theologian
Westerns, Augustine - Aquinas
Reformation if you're curious

Now that you have Christian foundations, you can safely explore pagans see their errors and truths.

>>11384230
>>11384336
who are "the church fathers"?

>>11384371

Saints and leaders in the church / christian thought from 70 ad - the early 500s

>>11384371
>>11384405

You can find them by searching for

"Church Patristic Fathers"
"Cappadocian Fathers" (Gregory, Basil, Chrysostom)
"Ante-Nicene Fathers"
"Post-Nicene Fathers"
"Orthodox Fathers"
"Western Fathers (Augustine and Gregory the Great)

>>11384405
Who are the most important of them i should read?

The Vedas, the Upanishads, & the Gita. Seek no further till you have gotten through with this. After that, you may commence with Plato & Aristotle. Expect not to find any truths in the works of non-Indians.

>>11384416
> reincarnation

God's not real

>>11383908
If you are a logicfag (like me) and just anything new to god, there's trap need to aware called Biblical literalism. dont faithfully believe, or ditch away the bible in the most shallow level because of this. Keeping this, I recommend Ehrman's Misquoting Jesus.

>>11384415

That's difficult desu. I would honestly just pickup "The Orthodox Church" by Kallistos Ware and start with that.

https://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-Church-New-Timothy-Ware/dp/0140146563

Jot down any of the fathers or theology you find interesting and research it more. It's also helpful to just find a list of fathers and begin looking up their understanding of certain theological concepts.

The Cappadocians are great. Augustine is great.
Here is a video series to help get you started as well:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRgREWf4NFWZEd86aVEpQ7B3YxXPhUEf-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az4sztb0Tlc&list=PLRgREWf4NFWZEd86aVEpQ7B3YxXPhUEf-&index=7&t=1s

>>11384371
t. educated among Protestant """""""Christians""""""""

>>11384432
This is a good post.

I'll add to it that if you want just a bare-bones shortlist, check out all of these guys:
-Basil the Great
-Gregory of Nazianzus
-Gregory of Nyssa
-Athanasius
-Ambrose of Milan
-Augustine

All of these guys are great. What's more, they're all saints in both the Catholic and the Orthodox Churches. If an early Christian thinker is recognized as a saint by both East and West, that's generally a good sign.

>>11384416
>Expect not to find any truths in the works of non-Indians.
What gave you that idea? The works you listed does not agree with you. Try to read them at some point.

Don't overlook the writings associated with the so-called New Perspective on Paul -- NT Wright, EP Sanders, Robert Jewett.

>>11384528
Do you have a specific one in mind?

>>11384528

The "New" Paul perspective is really just a return to the orthodox perspective if I've read NT Wright correctly.

>>11384416
>The Vedas, the Upanishads, & the Gita. Seek no further till you have gotten through with this.

This, but with Shankara's commentaries

>Expect not to find any truths in the works of non-Indians.

This is wrong though, the same truths are sometimes found expressed more or less clearly, more or less cryptically in various thinkers, i.e Daoism, Plotinus, Eckhart, Spinoza, and so on.

The Imitation of Christ

>>11384415
Irenaeus
>On the Apostolic Preaching
Athanasius
>On the Incarnation

Two short, easy, but deep works to get you going.

Brad Stephan Gregory

>>11383908
The Trivium - Sister Miriam Joseph
The Bible - Orthodox Study Bible is my personal choice though others opinions may differ.
Church Fathers - Cosmic Mystery of Jesus Christ by Maximus the Confessor and An Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith by John of Damascus are my faves and easy to read.
My fave modern book of Christian cosmology/ metaphysics is Cosmos and Transcendence by Wolfgang Smith. Its more a deconstruction of the modern scientistic mythologies than apologetics though.

>>11384418
Verifiably real.

>>11386641
Fuck off my board

First read every primary religious text of every major religion. Then read an analysis or three of each idea. Then read anthologies of most minor religions and offshoots of major ones. Read about animism and common atheistic ideas. Read as much philosophy as you can which highlights metaphysics. Then/at the same time/alternatively experience the possible existence of god for yourself as if it exists, and you have belief and justification for it, then it will make itself known.

>>11386641
More of a dipshit than the christcucks.

>>11383908
If you want an excellent book on every topic about the bible that uses the bible to defend its claims, look at systematic theology by wayne grudem. Comfortable read but theologically deep and sound. I often return to it when I have a questions. It does have a Calvinist bent in some places but that's because it's biblical oops

yo is Carmelite stuff too weird and mystical or is there useful truth in there? Because looking at the diagrams of the mountain seems pretty confusing.

>>11388706
Free will is biblical you tard

>>11387957
>>11387689
t. ideological materialists.

>>11388754
There's nothing weird about it. I would steer clear of it though if I were you, it's pretty advanced devotional stuff and you probably wouldn't get much out of it.

>>11389302
At least not without a deeply rooted habit of prayer and the guidance of a spiritual director.

i've never been to church in my life and i don't know shit about like the catholic rituals n shit, but i'm always tryna catholicpill motherfuckers that's its the true christianity

[My supplement.]
[
>RSV2CE
>Consolation of Philosophy
>Divine Names
>Abelard's letters
>Proslogion
>Ecclesiastical History of the English People
>Eckhart's sermons
>Pensees
>Action (Blondel)
>Lord (Guardini)
>Poems (Hopkins)
>Lord of the World
>Diary of a Country Priest
>Wheat that Springeth Green]

>>11389369

>>11389084
>belief in the soul entails reincarnation
W E W

>>11389373
Is there a chart for Protestantism?

Looking for serious wisdom in christian theology is like looking for literary merit in star trek. Anything you do happen to find will be shallow and any meaning it has will be in spite of its context.

>>11388771
Both are biblical, oops

>>11389495

>>11390254
Sorry bro but Kierkegaard is the best theologian. We win.

>>11383908
Read Leibniz. He's the best modern philosopher who was sincerely Christian in a non-sectarian fashion, unlike the converted Jew Spinoza or the Church-fearing Descartes. I recommend reading through https://www hrstud.unizg.hr/_download/repository/Leibniz,_Philosophical_Essays.pdf and taking note of his successful combination of modern physics & calculus into a revised Platonism that accounts for hylomorphic thought of Aristotle. And read the Monadology last, or read it once through in the beginning of your study of Leibniz, and then revisit it when you've read through the rest of it si you've familiarized yourself with his numerous arguments. Discourse on Metaphysics is a great starting point in Leibniz as well.

>>11384230
>>11384336
Neither of you have read all of the church fathers, stop LARPing.

>>11384418
Platonists believed in reincarnation, it's had currency in multiple traditions.

>>11390505
Doesn’t mean it’s a necessary consequence of the immaterial you tard.

>>11383908
>>11383908
My diary desu

>>11384418
>transubstantiation

https://catechesisofthepopes.wordpress.com/major-themes/the-lives-of-the-saints/audiences/

The Rambams 13 principles of jewish faith by rabbi aryeh kaplan z"l

>>11393462
One is the belief that God can change the essence of a substance. The other is an unsubstantiated claim based on false memories from wicked trips.

Which level is this thread at?

>>11393894
Heretics out

>>11393894
it's not on the scale. mostly it's vatican-free discussion, with some heathen white boy peddling hindoo mysticism

>>11383908
The Greeks

>>11393900
Wouldn't be surprised if it was actually some poo

>>11384416
Arrogant, just like those saying the only truth is in Christianity are arrogant, but a good other side to the debate.

>>11387935
This is also a vague but good suggestion.

Some basic works to read/at least skim through if you want to understand the basics of various world theologies/mystical and religious systems.

>The Bhagavad Gita
>The New Testament
>The Daodejing
>Zhuangzhi
>The Koran
>The Dhammapada
>The Presocratics
>Jung and Eliade

Then you can flesh out your knowledge by researching more into each of these various traditions specifically, reading secondary/scholarly works and commentaries and literature and philosophers of that tradition and so on.

>>11394615
I just realized I wrote this too quickly and stupidly left out the Old Testament or at least the most prominent selections from the Old Testament. Since I’d already written the NT I could have just written the Bible, kek. I’d also throw in Plato and Aristotle, looking back at it, that’s pretty important. After reading or at least looking through all these suggestions, you’re ready to get into the more intricate theological aspects of these traditions if you so wish, and/or the more esoteric, mystical, and even perennialist aspects of them.

>>11394673
i was listening to an audiobook of the old testement and i was sort of napping but there was this part where a dude was talking to a volcano or something like it was god and the reader seemed a little embarrassed and me too to consider like millions of dudes based their whole life on shit written by ppl who didnt understand how volcanos work, idk man

>>11394689
Ancient man put certain wisdom in the forms of myths, allegories, parables, and symbols. It’s only degenerates who read these stories literally.

>>11394704
>it wasn't meant to be taken literally!
>we were only pretending to be retarded!

>>11394707
See, degenerate. Not everything in the OT is valid, some of it just seems like rambling and random interspersions, but there are parts in it which are brilliant and beautiful parables for anyone who has “ears to hear”. “We” weren’t “only pretending to be retarded”. I don’t go to church and am not suggesting you do so. I’m not justifying any mainstream version or offshoot of Christianity. I’m just saying there’s a lot of wisdom in some of these old ridiculous-seeming myths and stories.

>>11394719
yeah i know there wisdom in it faggot but i could have just stuck with the old tee selections covered in ancient lit class, listening to the names of every fag descended from some other fag wasnt especially wise

>>11394735
You have to have some patience, devotion, and a trusting attitude. It’s not by any means necessary to read it but, hell, it’s not necessary to read any esoteric or mystical or religious work. You only read it if you have a need, a desire for understanding, a quest for enlightenment. If you don’t, then I would say, by all means don’t care about it and don’t force yourself to go searching through it for pearls of wisdom.

>>11394891
Why are you seriously responding to someone who spouts the bullshit he is and clearly read the first 20 pages of genesis until the genaeology and stopped? He's clearly a lazy retarded fedora tipper, those people are a lost cause. Fuck him.

You hear me you little faggot? You're a moron.

>>11394898
Just because the person you’re talking to doesn’t gain any wisdom from the the conversation doesn’t mean others can’t gain wisdom from listening to the conversation. It’s a classic Sufi teaching technique.

>>11394898
i clearly got the part with the volcano god