/lit/ - Literature

yes, but on the plus side you'll feel more angry, lonely and bitter

only if you're as superficial a thinker as schopenhauer was

No. You'll disregard him as an angry, lonely and bitter old man butthurt by Hegel being more popular.

Don't fucking read Schopenhauer, you absolute mong. I lost two years of my life in misery for reading "Essays on Pessimism". Consider this your friendliest warning. Don't try to be a hero. Back the fuck off from this psychopath,

>>11387462
The realest post on /lit/ atm

I told a girl once my favorite philosophers were schopenhauer and nietzsche after she took me to the city ballet while I was serruptitiously on LSD and then before we parted ways she asked me about why I broke up with my ex which led to several long and confusing metaphors that resulted in a full psychotic break about eighteen months after. Needless to say, I didn't get laid that night. But in my dreams it is the best sex of my life.

>>11387780
>doing drugs
wow you are a loser

>>11387815
Blame orientalism and hippies. Thought them hippie girls were hot and wanted to get enlightened and pierce their veil of maya.

>>11387483
are you african american?

>>11387824
there's nothing behind their veil, only more veils my friend

>>11387462
>this psychopath
lmao it's true
Schopenhauer gave me schizophrenia, and I'm grateful for it

If you don't have a strong character(which is obvious), don't read it. Schoppy is almost comforting in a way.

Will read him starting tomorrow. Downloaded all of his works. Which to read or start with first?

>>11387970
On the Will in nature if you're a bad enough dude.

>>11387815
>Be like the lobster, don't lose
Ok Jordan

what to do if I want to read nitxee and heidegger and kant and hegel and schopenhauer but am at aristotle? its a bit overwhelming, like an infinite "you need to read this before"

>>11388036
read whatever the fuck you want idiot

I started reading schopenhauer about 9 months ago, and at first I thought he was great, but now I've started a mental decline and am seeing a psychiatrist and therapist. I think he had asperger's, best not to take advice from someone with asperger's.

>>11388094
at least you didnt contract the gay

>>11388094
>best not to take advice from someone with asperger's.
better ignore you then

>>11387340
>dude music like redeems our broken reality
schoppy was a tool

>>11388036
better get started

>>11388117
Stick to debord tumblr cunt

Is it not obvious that existentialism appeals only to the most wretched souls? Look at its canon; Schopenhauer (proto), Nietzsche, Camus, Sartre, Kafka, Kierkegaard...

>>11387844
Nah dog

>>11387780
>Needless to say, I didn't get laid that night. But in my dreams it is the best sex of my life.

Books for this feel?

>>11389022
White Nights by Dostoevesky

>>11389030
Thank you. Are you the anon who wrote that post? It was well put I appreciate it. Hope the best for you or whoever that is if it's true.

>>11387340
no

>>11387780
The absolute state of the aspiring ubermensch

Is Schopenhauer a nihilist or not?

>>11387340
It's a real possibility.

>>11387340
Not if you aren't already depressed or susceptible to nihilism, which Christianity will do to you.

>>11387854
Seconded

I've only read "The World As Will And Representation", which I didn't find too depressing.

The anger and bitterness came through in his idea that 99% of life is miserable and full of suffering, but he suggested Buddhist style englightenment as a solution.

I liked his metaphor of life being an endless circular walk on a bed of hot coals.

We can either make sure we walk on the cool patches of coal (activities of instantaneous pleasure, drinking, sex, etc) whenever we can, which will result in the hot coals (life's misery) burning even more; or we can avoid the cool patches (abstain from pleasure) and walk only on the hot coals, learning to endure through the pursuit of inner peace and enlightenment.

>>11388185
>>11387844
underrated

You will never recover
Turn back now

>>11387780
>ballet
Sissy

>>11388036
Start with the cave paintings

Schopenhauer will change your life. In my humble estimation philosophy went two ways after Kant: one way with Schopenhauer and another with Hegel, each influencing others in their respective branch. Stick with Schopenhauer, then read Nietzsche and have your life changed again. Listen to some Mozart, Rossini, Beethoven, Wagner.

>>11387348
>>11387357
>>11387362
>>11387462

Kys samefag

>>11387340
Schopenhauer was a pessimist who earnestly believed in something like the Freudian death drive and the Buddhist concept of life as suffering. If you have a depressive disposition, you might feel comfort at first reading him, finding yourself agreeing with the points he's making, but I'm warning you it's a trap.

If you get sucked into that way of thinking, you'll be just as depressed and miserable as he was. For a more positivist view of the world, I highly recommend reading Joseph Campbell. He was less of a philosopher and more of a scholar, but his essays on Buddhist ideas are much more wholesome and good for the mind.

>>11391312
The amount of suffering in the world is so overwhelming, not only in the human world but in the animal kingdom as well, that I find it hard to take any optimist philosophy seriously, especially Buddhist/Eastern traditions that assert that all the world is One, etc. If anything Nietzsche is the antidote to Schopenhauer, although I wouldn't exactly call him "wholesome for the mind." If that's what you're after you should probably read some Stoics and don't think too much.

>>11391381
Of course there's suffering, but Campbell believes that suffering the key to wisdom and deep insight.

>Privation and suffering alone open the mind to all that is hidden to others.

Campbell points out this is a key tenet of many religious philosophies for a reason. It's the core of Buddhist belief and is symbolized in the western canon as the search for the Grail and The Passion.

>>11387970
The Fourfold Root is the foundation for the rest of his philosophy, this is where you should absolutely begin.

I must admit I have not read even half of his works, but yet he is my favourite pessimist. His boiled down ideas about everything he observed have brought me much joy and laughter. Even if I agree with him to some degree. If you have your life ruined by reading his works you must be weak and stupid as fuck.

>>11391388
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlequin-type_ichthyosis

>>11390690
Pretty much the opposite.
Schopenhauer said that the will may be the only thing that truly exists.

>>11388157
Camus wasn't a wretched soul though, he and Diogenes are the most based of philosophers

>>11391657
>hurr durr he masturbated in public how based
Gb2>/reddit/

>>11391423
>but yet he is my favourite pessimist
I mean, what other serious options are there?

>>11391393
Correct

>>11391388
>but Campbell believes that suffering the key to wisdom and deep insight.
Schopenhauer essentially does this as well. Mitleid (compassion, suffering-with) is the key to unlocking the chain of the Will and starting to transcend.

>>11388036
Read Laozi and Buddha. Learn about the Stoics' teachings, too.

>>11388157
>>11388157
What about maurice blondel?
What about simone de beauvoir?
What about dostotevsky?
None of them were wretched.
Kierkegaard in particular wasnt a wretched soul at all, he was probably closer to divinity than almost anyone else in history.
There's a litany of things wrong with your obviously poorly thought out and biased opinion, but you really ought to fuck off, or maybe actually read these thinkers.

>>11387462
Where should I start?

I'm already naturally pessimistic so Schoppy's sassy writing just cheers me up desu. Same goes for Cioran.

>>11391788
dont you have Saturday morning mass to attend you fucking papist? go to sleep

>>11387970
The Upanishads

>>11391228
>have your life changed again
Yikes! You must have a very weak will and critical thinking skills if you are that easily swayed by words in a book. Philosophy is definitely not something you should be reading. Please, stop before you read Deleuze and wind up in a mental institution!

>>11387854
>there's nothing behind the veil
that's the point innit

>>11393419
I have my master's in philosophy but I appreciate your concern Anon

>>11391715
>I mean, what other serious options are there?

>>11391479
I never understood this argument.

"Ooooo, look at all this horrible stuff that can happen to people by chance, isn't the world scary???|

But then you see people who also have brain disorders where they can't feel fear or anxiety and they live their lives very happy and carefree.

What I'm trying to say is, that the randomness can swing both ways, and you can have abject suffering or pleasure, but neither of these outliers apply to the everyday person.

>>11387340
Read Schopenhauer, realize that at one point suffering was so unbearable people had reason to kill themselves, then realize you live in a society full of air conditioned rooms, cheap food, and easy computer jobs, and then further realize that as long as you are in the middle class in America, you will never suffer.

Watch evangelion to feel better.

I've gotten out of a few deep depressions with that show. Surprises me every time.

>>11393623
Your argument was that 'suffering is the key to wisdom and deep insight' so I gave you an example (one of many) of suffering that clearly doesn't give any kind of wisdom or deep insight, certainly not to the victim anyway.

>people who also have brain disorders where they can't feel fear or anxiety
So that accounts for about 00000.1% of people that ever lived. Is this is a fair counterbalance to the fact that child leukaemia exists?

>neither of these outliers apply to the everyday person
Abject suffering affects most of humanity if you bear in mind the third world. Most live with the memory of some horrific, unpreventable family tragedy.

I just really dislike the argument you're making and I've seen it mentioned a lot on /lit/. Obviously there's no point in wallowing in the idea of suffering but its silly to say that its somehow part of a greater good or a wise balance in the universe.

>>11391278
>all these people share an opinion and that can't be possible thus is samefagging
piss off

>>11393637
that is so insanely delusional. you think all the tragedies of life can't effect the middle class? you must be a liberal or a commie. Please get cancer

Schopenhauer is my favorite philosopher. I am a very goal-oriented person and sort of a workholic, so reading his "The world as will and representation" really struck me.

I questioned myself for some time, but then I got to the conclusion that although is view on nature is absolutely correct, the solution he chose is arbitrary. As some anon said above, the antitode for Schopenhauer is Nietzsche.

But I think so only in regards as to what he qualifies as "good" behavior. His metaphysical description of nature is absolutely bang-on.

If you read Hegel you'll skip whatever gay criticism he might have.

>>11393874
Nietzsche isn't the antidote to Schopenhauer, he's a relapse.

>>11387340
Your depression is your own problem, OP. Schopenhauer's doctrine is aligned with the most elevated mystical teachings, only it is flavored with the meanness and anxiety which he suffered from early in life. Nonetheless, he clearly shows how, as ignorance is dispelled by knowledge, the will becomes more and more refined until it reaches a state wherein the individual is moved only by compassion and perfect contemplation. The attainment of this state accords the highest happiness free from disturbances, since happiness results from the realization of motives. Naturally, under these circumstances, one's behavior is at once ethical and joyous. Few understand this, and fail to achieve this highest peace simply because they are still attached to the world in some form or another, which is really ignorance and naivete, but Schopenhauer's doctrine helps us out of this, by denying any optimistic (that is, false or incomplete) outlook which might hinder us from the attainment of true peace. The saint, then, attains to the highest happiness imaginable and in this state leaves the world, not bitterly but lovingly and without resentment. Don't make the mistake of thinking Schopenhauer was not an incredibly happy man.

>>11393419
>yikes

>>11393833
It is literally true though. I'm a right wing fallangist and I believe this, other than loss (loss of a pet/ family member/girlfriend) people of the middle class feel no tragedy.
Compare this to Congolese children when their local war-tribe confiscates the canned goods the UN dropped off for them and they realize they need to catch some worms to eat for the upcoming month, and you see true loss.

>read schop
>get depressed
>get told to read nitch
>just get more depressed

>>11393881
kek

>>11394301
i hate to say it but that old canard i used to hate when i was a marxist that "even with the massive inequality of capitalism a poor person in america today lives better than a rich person of 100 years ago" etc and its true i mean im a little salty that i barely get any hours at my job and have tons of free time to sit around shitposting, reading books, and pretending to write code on my macbook pro, but the fact is my standard of living is high af compared to basically any other time and place in history, of course when i look over at manhattan and see all those new "billionaires row" towers going up i get all envious n shit but i dont even care enough to write an angsty marxpost about it, life is ok

>>11390914
Yeah, that's pretty nice picture.

Mainstream beliefs and opinions are popular because they work, don't forget that. When you encounter controversial beliefs full of pessimism or hatred you're playing with fire.

>>11387815
why are some plants illegal?

>>11394301
Those people are living a more fulfilling life than most cubicle drones in the western world. The physical suffering caused by pain and starvation are just as tragic as the pain of meaninglessness. Did you know that event in wealthy western nations, the rich are more likely to commit suicide than the poor? Maybe getting everything you want and having an easy life isn’t necessarily good for us, and it shouldn’t be our goal

>>11395196
good life advice, and i don't mean just for avoiding extremist ideology, i mean even basic stuff like getting an iphone, i used to buy into all that gnu/freefuck bullshit, like fuck steve jobs linux4lyfe yo, etc. but then i got macbook pro and it a much better unix desktop environment than anything any linux distro has been able to cobble together, or even fashion, fuck trying to be some hip queer with a ironic t-shirt and pants that fit weird, just dress fucking normal

>>11395196
Fire, you say? We do have an overpopulation problem.... I doubt the animals would miss us.

>>11395196
kys

If you're a faggot, yes.

>>11395196

>>11391312
>the Buddhist concept of life as suffering
Life isn't suffering in Buddhism, but it necessarily contains suffering. Forget all about what Schopehauer thought about Buddhism, his sources must've been shit at the time and he didn't practice it, and Buddhism is about attaining the right mental discipline through practice and contemplation, in order to cease to suffer.

>>11393833
If you think your cozy middle class issues are comparable to what people have suffered through for most of history, then you are delusional. And a Communist would say that the middle class is the victim of oppression by the upper class capitalists.

>>11391312
Freud took the death drive from schoppy nigga that's arthurs idea

>>11391312
>Joseph Campbell
Jordan Peterson just ripped of all of Campbell ideas and threw in some Jung

>>11395209
tldr = i'm a sheep