/lit/ - Literature

>>11362249
No. Nothing is new. Every generation thinks they invented everything. That's what reading old lit is. BTW, you don't need to post this shit to validate having read it. Everyone gets it already. Just read, learn, have your eyes opened, and enjoy yourself. There are things on almost every page of some books that will open your eyes as much as this. That's why they're in books. They've already been reproduced for people to enjoy. The posting of the on the internet is not necessary. I feel like I'm being redundant or scolding OP, but neither of those were intended.

>>11362249
>Is anything truly new?

Not in politics.

>>11362249
>another politics thread on /lit/
summer sure is fun!

>>11362249
1873 isn’t that long ago.

To my knowledge, Fyodor Dostoevsky was the first to mock the Left for cuckoldry in Crime and Punishment. I will find the passage later.

>>11362249
i feel like most ardent leftists i know cling to their ideology out of genuine conviction rather than convenience. this is the case with most dogmatists i know, but perhaps i just dont hang out with enough poor people.

he was basically a leftist christian though. dostoyevsky was far more based.

What's happening in America today is just a repetition of the same Humanitarianism > Socialism > Nihilism progression that happened in 19th century Russia

>>11362249
Leftists have been a tumor on the belly of western civilization ever since the enlightenment. They managed to get their foot in the door and have been wedging it open with their cancerous ideology ever since

>>11362262
Indeed. There is a passage in Gorgias where Callicles tells Socrates the life of a philosopher is the life of a poorfag. Very little has changed in 2,400 years.

>>11362350
The Enlightenment literally was leftist you stupid pecker.

>>11362350
I want a feudal lord to fuck my wife

>>11362249
Dostoyevsky used to belittle and bully suffragettes with short hair at dinner parties. Russians have always been fun

>>11362249
I doubt Tolstoy (an anarchist) considered liberals to be his leftist compatriots

>>11362405
anarchism is a right-wing ideology. left-wing = statism / right-wing = freedom

>>11362428
american genocide best day of my life

>>11362428
please be bait

>>11362428
you have to go back

Are people seriously complaining about leftists in a Tolstoy thread?
>>11362432
c a n ' t w a i t

>>11362428
Ancapism is just pay-as-you-go statism.

>>11362428
Low-effort. Try harder next time

>>11362308
found it? i don't remember that passage.

>>11362347
>modern America
>feudal imperialist shithole with actual slavery

>>11362498
not him but it probably was when the communist guy started talking about marriage being outdated and how if he truly loved a women he wouldn’t care if she was with other men

>>11362595
>what is the lived black experience in 2018
>what is the lived mexican experience in 2018

?

>>11362837
Not at all the same?

>>11362249
>Is anything truly new?
No
Dosto calls them cucks in c&p

>>11362428
americans still use the words left and right for politics?

>>11362262
OP keep posting shit you find interesting so others can enjoy it to, don't listen to moldy autistic hermitfaggots trying to kill all discussion before they happen.
It's always good to post the text you talk about.

>>11362262
You don't need to play hermit-read-all-books-fag to validate yourself and your thoughts and ideas here.

>>11362249
Imagine being this ignorant. Tolstoy was a left-wing anarchist in the ideological neighborhood of Marx and Bakunin, and this passage is about liberals, who are not leftists. Lenin spent nearly half his time ranting about liberals as well, was he not a leftist?

>>11362249
That is a pretty lame passage.

damn, libtards btfo epic style

i like the bit where he describes the artist and his reaction to other people seeing and commenting on his work

>>11362308
from Demons

>>11362308
>>11363431
whoops meant to scale that down

How do we get rid of /v/ cross posters?

>>11363431
I don't read books in English, is this pleasant reading for you? It seems so strange.

>>11363456
Okay

>>11363462
Whoa, butthurt much? Didn't mean to offend you pal.

>>11362249
>liberals = leftists

>>11363456
Lol

>>11363456
Shhh, monolingual anglos can be very sensitive.

>>11363579
>Lol
not an argument. here's an example of what, to me, is unappealing:
>whereas previously they hadn't dared open their mouths, and the leading people, who until then had blithely had the final say[...]

>>11362829
>>11362498
It's a parody of a character from N.G. Chernyshevsky's What Is to Be Done?, called Lebeziatnikov in Doestoevsky book

>>11363509
Okay

>>11362249
prophetic as fuck

b-but liberals are right wing OP.

>>11362376

How reductive

>>11363647
Is it good not to have any interesting opinion, you cock-sucking mongrel?

>>11362428
>anarchism is a right-wing ideology

>>11363393
Thank god. It only took lit thirty fuckin' posts to acknowledge that left is not the same as liberal.

>>11362378
Yeah, no. Just everyone else.

>>11362249
1873 wasn’t even 200 years ago so of course the people back then wouldnt be any different from us

STOP CALLING LIBERALS LEFTISTS REEEEEEEEEEEE

>>11362889
>>11362595
https://www.aclu.org/blog/us-admits-modern-day-slavery-exists-home

Not the same but there's plenty of latino slaves in the US. It's also legal to enslave felons and plenty of prisons force their inmates to work in terrible conditions for minimal to no pay. That being said, modern America isn't at all like 19th century Russia and isn't following the same trajectory.

>>11362350
>he doesn't realise that leftism has been around since the renaissance

>>11364942
no one is forced to work in prison, that whole "new jim crow" shit is lazy scholarship thats been debunked, working in prison is totally optional, a lot of people do it cuz it makes the time go faster and u get a couple extra bucks for commissary plus some places give u like one day off your sentence for every week u work etc.

>>11364942
most slaves are actually in south asian (usually muslim) homes, all the cases of people actually being convicted of slavery did not involve spanish people, spanish people will work for pennies with no dignity, theres no need to enslave them lol no offense, last slavery conviction around here was some malaysian who went on a trip to asia and left their slaves at home with no way to get food or whatever so they finally broke out and told authorities, also there was on in texas recently were a nigerian muslim had some slaves cant remember if they were african or indian

>but because it more closely suited his lifestyle

>>11364962
>>11364942
>It's also legal to enslave felons and plenty of prisons force their inmates to work in terrible conditions for minimal to no pay.
It's technically true.

>>11363573
>>11364730
>>11364764
Can you tell me on what side did the liberals sit on in the national legislative assembly in revolutionary france?

checkmate, marxist faggots

>>11362249
>Is anything truly new?
this moment

>>11364983
yes everyone knows that but only an affirmative action hire professor would put out a book about it without bothering to research what prison labor is actually like and also the origins of the "harsh" drug laws, but i guess thats what happens when sjw profs with no background in constitutional law skim the constitution

>>11364716
really cringy art

>>11364983
>going to prison is being a slave
Lol ok

>>11364989
It's about as relevant as making fun of Ted Cruz and trying to apply the same criticism to /pol/acks
Tolstoy was about as far left as possible, he walked around preaching anarchist Georgism for fuck's sake

>>11364668
Is it?

>>11365016
>leftists cant mock leftists

>>11364962
>>11365010
I'm sure it varies but in many places prisoners can either work or be sent to solitary confinement and lose access to basic necessities and phone calls. Sometimes it's not even felons: https://www.splcenter.org/news/2018/04/17/splc-sues-private-prison-company-uses-forced-labor-detained-immigrants-georgia-boost

>>11364970
There's a need to enslave them when they come up for a farm job and are forced into sex work. I doubt most slaves work in private homes rather than businesses. But I don't know the stats so if you have a good source post it.

>>11364992
What are you on about, members of the Nixon administration are on record saying that drug laws were designed to target blacks and protestors.

>>11365010
Going to prison for years for "crimes" committed by over half of the adult population and then being used by the corporation running the prison to make profits off of your misery is slavery in all but name.
This is why those same corporations donate millions to politicians in lobbying and campaign contributions and why the politicians they buy push for being "tougher on crime," so that the pool of prison labor is expanded.

>postmodernites see universal themes
>is this a [political device]?
>class warfare hooooooo

>>11365049
>This is why those same corporations donate millions to politicians in lobbying and campaign contributions

I love how you guys always bring this up while conveniently ignoring the lobbying from public guard unions. The existence of lobbying is not an argument against private prisons.

>>11365049
there aren't even that many private prisons and most of them are at the federal level were u really have to fuck up to get sent, give me a break, moreover, most prison labor produces the cheapest junk, its mostly just exists as a way to give the inmates something to do

and like someone said the biggest promoters of long prison terms and expanded criminality are public sector unions both prison guards and police, private prisons like private schools, dont have unionized employees

>>11365045
yeah making lsd illegal, not the crack cocaine laws that are in that stupid jim crow book, there was no crack during nixon, idiot

>anti-gun liberals demand mandatory minimums to get guns off the streets
>cry when black boys are sent to mandatory 5 years upstate for getting pulled over with an undocumented handgun

yes, its all a big racist conspiracy!

>>11365196
Don't forget weed

>>11362249
don't listen to
>>11362262
feel free to post the relevant section that pertains to the question you're asking.
2262 is just being a grouch

>>11365199
Who are you quoting?

>>11365209
yeah but you have to be a real fuck up to get sent to prison for weed bro, lsd is a much lower threshold for incarceration, if you get arrested for smoking weed u get a fine and probation unless you're in a school zone with a quarter pound or something

>>11365219
greentext isn't only for quotes newfriend, that's only when preceded by "implying", maybe you are kind low on the iq side, not being able to intuit this simple pattern

>>11365175
True, public prisons are shit as well. But private prisons are uniquely bad, prisons are something that should not be run for profit because the goal should be to shrink their businesses, not expand them. And because their lower operating costs lead to worse conditions than those in public prisons.

>>11364989
>Can you tell me on what side did the liberals sit on in the national legislative assembly in revolutionary france?
>checkmate, marxist faggots

i was reading about this prison in oklahoma that had the inmates work making women's undergarments, just imagine getting sent there, and when you get back from the shower your cellies took your regular clothes and replaced with womens lingerie and then you have to wear it to the chow hall so everyone including the guards can see what a submissive sissy you are, everyone looking at you standing there humiliated, know you are going to be sucking A LOT of dicks in the near future...so hot i might have to fap again, shit

>>11362294
lol youre angry that a thread is right wing, not that its political. you love talking politics on here. get fucked nerd

>>11364716
haha thats some of the most embarrassing shit ever. imagine being the dude that drew that

>>11365245
it's true but on the other hand private prisons will be more wary about getting sued for serious safety and human rights violations while public prisons can just pull a few mill out of the tax payer's pocket and pay whatever with no change

>>11365228
imagine being this naive

>>11365196
Crack is basically just shitty cocaine consumed by black people instead of rich white people, but crimes related to crack are punished much more harshly
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/sp/RaceandClass.Sentencing.pdf

>>11365247
epic pepe btfos chud

>>11365270
would someone explain this "crack is for blacks" thing, like if crack is so much more penalty for the same drug, why not just switch back to cocaine?

>>11365270
>imagine being this naive

i've actually been arrested for smoking weed, have you? sick of these sheltered liberals who think they are big experts on criminal justice and law enforcement cuz they read some biased af bullshit in the atlantic or whatever

>>11362338
Ummm sweetie
>A cheap sensationalist, clumsy and vulgar. A prophet, a claptrap journalist and a slapdash comedian. Some of his scenes are extraordinarily amusing. Nobody takes his reactionary journalism seriously

He is describing the old liberals, you know the Gladstonian ones. They are considered right wing. Left wingers at that time would be the marxists basically.

>>11365245
>prisons are something that should not be run for profit because the goal should be to shrink their businesses, not expand them

This is not something that's unique to private prisons. The biggest advocates for tougher prison sentences are public guard unions because that is what best serves their interests.

However there are certain things that can be done with private prisons which can reduce the recidivism rate that can't done with public prisons. Things like negotiating contracts and funding based on how well they perform or rehabilitate prisoners. This happened in Pennsylvania and they saw an immediate 11.3% reduction in recidivism.

>>11364764
Good post.

>>11363456
truly based

>>11363456
>It seems so strange.
Anglospeak's degeneracy is evident to anyone with a 80+ iq. This is why Koko the gorilla used sign language.

>>11365284
White people make up some tiny minority of weed possession arrests despite using it at equal rates. There have been plenty of proven of cases where weed has been planted to justify an arrest and ultimately convict innocents, and probably many more that will never be uncovered. Check out what happened with the Baltimore PD

>>11365276
Because cocaine is much more expensive and they don't have the money

>>11365310
Yeah public prison lobbies are bad too. The rehabilitation/recidivism thing is interesting, I hadn't heard of that and if most private prisons had contracts like that I wouldn't have as much of a problem with them. But it still seems like something that would be better served by setting targets for public prisons. As things stand, the vast majority of private prisons produce worse results https://www.inthepublicinterest.org/wp-content/uploads/ITPI-Recidivism-ResearchBrief-June2016.pdf

>>11362262
Wondering what the point of this post is

>>11362262
Yup. I often get surprised reading an older book when I come across an idea that I thought only appeared more recently. If you put more thought into a text, you can make even more interesting conclusions. For instance, it could well be argued that the Epic of Gilgamesh was the first postmodern novel, even thought it is very old.

>>11365343
>Check out what happened with the Baltimore PD

More like, check out what happened to Baltimore itself

>>11365343
>black people get arrested more for weed than whites

ask yourself honestly the last say five times u saw someone smoking weed in public were they white or non-white? do u realize most marijuana arrests in nyc are residents of public housing calling the cops to arrest people who smoking the lobby/hall/stairs? do people who rely on public housing not have a right to walk through their building with packs of kids smoking blunts around every corner?

so sick of the dishonesty of the left

>>11365372
The majority of people I see smoking weed in public have been white

>>11365377
where do you live? a place thats majority white? oh a phish concert filled with stoner whitebois? if u spend so much time around whites what makes you such an expert on race and law enforcement?

>>11365377
bonus round: who have you seen more likely to smoke weed in front of their own children? black or white? i mean you probably don't know any black people except some rich nigerian immigrant who went to your liberal arts college, but on the off chance you actually know some "diverse" people i mean

>>11362249
I have a copy of this book, haven't read it yet. This has made me excited.

>>11365382
California, so a pretty different situation than NYC. But I haven't always lived there and when I lived on the east coast white people were always way more cavalier about weed than black people I knew. You've given me no reason to consider you an expert on race and crime and I see no reason to listen to you when the vast majority of people who are non-white (you always get exceptions like Candace Owens etc.) consider racial bias in law enforcement to be a massive issue, and they have data to back it up.

>>11365407
well of course people who are non-white are going to say there is big racial bias and not that their race commits way more crimes and behaves more boorishly with regard to marijuana use...i mean really, try being critical a little bit

>>11365392
Guess which race gets thinkpieces about the trend of down to earth "marijuana moms" and who gets called irresponsible? It doesn't matter how many I've seen or how many you've seen, what matters is how many people actually do it.

>>11365415
That's why you look at all the evidence they have to back it up and consider the historical conditions that may have led to higher crime rates in those populations

Everyone complaining about "liberal leftists" needs to be banned immediately

>>11365417
all i can tell you is i'm always shocked when black people just roll up a blunt and start smoking right in front of little kids, i've met white kids whose parents allowed them to smoke weed, but i can't remember one time they were ever present, and certainly they didn't bring their own weed, one time someone's mom's live-in white trash boyfriend blazed some weed with us cuz he said it was less legal penalty to smoke us out than to buy as alcohol, so even when violating the law ex-con white trash are still calculating the legal consequences of their actions, blacks just 420 blazit and if anything happens blame the cops

Reminds me also of this passage from The Idiot

"Many of our young women have thought fit to cut their hair short, put on blue spectacles, and call themselves Nihilists. By doing this they have been able to persuade themselves, without further trouble, that they have acquired new convictions of their own. Some men have but felt some little qualm of kindness towards their fellow-men, and the fact has been quite enough to persuade them that they stand alone in the van of enlightenment and that no one has such humanitarian feelings as they. Others have but to read an idea of somebody else's, and they can immediately assimilate it and believe that it was a child of their own brain. The "impudence of ignorance," if I may use the expression, is developed to a wonderful extent in such cases;--unlikely as it appears, it is met with at every turn."

>>11365435
replace blue spectacles with blue hair dye and you've got yourself 2016 onward

>>11365423
>
but leftists deny that there even is a higher crime rate, although the statistics are widely available for all to see, besides most people are in state prison for violent crimes and property crimes, not or drug use, so this idea that 'racist' drug laws are the cause of high incarceration is not even true, the left will never be able to fix anything until they stop being dishonest

>>11365428
>modern “liberals” aren’t crypto leftists

>>11365045
You mean that one guy Nixon refused to pardon so he spent the rest of his life puling about le ebil president?
Great source

>>11365430
You're just telling me what you've seen and what I've seen is different. Which is why people look for information that extends beyond their personal experiences when trying to figure out general trends

>>11365444
I doubt you know many leftists, most are happy to talk about poverty, housing discrimination, job discrimination, incarceration rates (when compared to whites that commit crimes) that lead to greater amounts of crime. And no one blames it all on drug crimes

>>11365449
Better than no source like you

>>11362249
technology is new, everything else humans do is basically the same set of patterns we evolved

>>11365445
modern liberals are capitalist as hell, why do u think they play up identity politics so much? they need to a create a more diverse face for the big bourgeoisie so movements like the original bpp can never start again because kanye west and puff daddy can tell you that lower taxes will be good for your jobs, and then "woke" writers like tanihesi coats can sell you a new superhero movie

>>11365457
capitalism is left-wing retard

ffs mods it's time for this thread to go to >>>/pol/

>>11365465
the thread actually opened with a segment of a of literature which puts it above 95% of the thread on this board

>>11365451
>general trends

yes, but this stat that "whites and blacks both use marijuana the same" is dishonest because "using marijuana" is not all the same, driving down the strip in a car full of smoke with a gun under the seat is not the same as taking a few bong rips at home after work, like do u have a stat for what percent of weed arrests are only for weed? i'd bet many of the arrests are for other charges and the suspect just happened to have weed on them, if you rob a taxi driver and happen to have some weed in your pocket do liberals call that a "weed arrest"? considering their general level of dishonesty i'm going to say yes.

>don't know many leftists

i was involved in all sorts of marxist bullshit in the 2000s, i've probably met more revolutionary socialists than you've met bernie bros

>>11365471
You realize you could just look it up instead of just assuming it matches your assumptions? It's on you to prove that your assertions are true, you're just spouting off anecdotes without providing any info of your own. You have to go back. 89% of charges for marijuana related crimes were for possession alone.

>>11365471
>>11365504
Not even anecdotes, you're making up imaginary scenarios to get mad about. Embarrassing

>>11362308
Beyond parody

>>11362428
OH SAY CAN YOU SHART

>>11362350
Tolstoy was pretty leftist himself, the best writers find hypocrisy everywhere and are extremely honest; to be fair liberal does not equate to leftist/socialist, and a more centrist person was described in that passage. It is pretty common to have a sense of humour and poke fun at your own side/similar side.

>>11362249
Did you even read the passage? He's describing liberals, not leftists.

Leave it to /lit/ to reduce Anna Karenina to a libs btfo compilation. Praise Kek.

>>11365504
>citation needed

>>11365515
ya ok dude that's just my life experience, from you know, living life in the real world, sorry if it seems like an "imaginary scenario" to a shutin failson like you

>>11365463
Trolling used to be an art.

>>11362428
Jesus Christ, what does leftism and rightism even mean anymore on 4chan? Is it going to be at a point where everything will switch? Liberalism is the centre, liberalism is based around freedom while right is based around conservatism; right-wing liberalism is considered centre-right. Many further right-wing parties take economic-liberalism, but they aren’t considered as fully liberal as let’s say libertarians, this means freedom in the market but not freedom in whatever the fuck you say and do. America is built under liberal values, the liberal-democrats in the u.k is the liberal party; labour is supposed to be left but, let’s be honest, not always. Just because some SJW’s from tumblr complained about muh videos gaemes, doesn’t mean rightism=freedom no matter what /pol/ tries to meme into you.

>>11365235
You just outed yourself as a new friend from not understanding the meme

>>11362249
how is liberalism in that context 'leftism' you /pol/ weenie?

>>11365595
Do your own research, it's one of the first results https://www.drugpolicy.org/issues/drug-war-statistics

>>11365596
You didn't even talk about things that happened to you, you just made up shit you think black people did to make yourself mad
>driving down the strip in a car full of smoke with a gun under the seat
>i'd bet many of the arrests are for other charges and the suspect just happened to have weed on them, if you rob a taxi driver and happen to have some weed in your pocket do liberals call that a "weed arrest"?

You're also using liberals/leftists interchangeably and here >>11365444 you claim to be unfamiliar with the fact that leftists acknowledge higher crime rates and attribute them to structural causes, so you obviously never been active in marxist circles. Since you're already lying about your past to prove a point, I have no reason to believe you're not just making shit up about your "life experience." This isn't a political argument about value systems and what qualifies as a social problem, you're making factual arguments and they're provably wrong. Give it up and go back to frogposting about the superiority of the white race on your containment board.

>>11365606
/pol/fags have based their entire "ideology" on being offended about other people being offended and most of them have no knowledge of political philosophy

>>11362262
*snap*

>>11365669
>leftists acknowledge higher crime rates and attribute them to structural causes,
these arguments are extremely weak though, you guys are genuinely better off just banning dissent on this topic, because even a small amount of exposure plants seeds of doubt you can never get rid of

Great thread about literature

>>11365818
books are for fags

>>11365810
https://youtu.be/K--kQAmbV1w

If you had any justification for believing the arguments are weak you would have already brought them up. If you don’t like black people you don’t like black people, just own it instead of trying to justify it with provably false claims.

>>11365669
you'll never cure the failure of the african american community until you have an honest discussion about their toxic culture, protip: marxists blame black incarceration on racism, if was due to "class" then whites would be incarcerated at the same rate, duh, then when blacks try to clean up their community by calling the cops on kids smoking weed in their building you cry racism, sorry but the left is retarded, and the left has been reduced to complaining about identity politics since its obvious that social economics pretty much always fail unless the country is 95% white, the irony being that supporting immigration into europe insures that the welfare states in those countries will eventually be dismantled, you guys are always walking right into traps, but that's because you're never dealing with reality only your fantasy of what you want reality to be

the thing is i'm not opposed to legalizing weed, obviously it should be legal, but this idea that "use rates are the same" so therefor the circumstances are the same, moreover with the crisis of reproducibility in social sciences right now i'm not sure we should even believe that study to be honest, where is the original "usage is equal" study? i havent seen it, only secondary source of a secondary source, and again "usages" are not equal

>>11365818
>tfw i innocently just posted my favourite bit from the book and everyone ignored me because they were much happier having their /pol/itical debate

>>11365669
also on "usage" the same number of people "have used" marijuana, but what are the stats for daily usage? usage in public? usage while driving? again the only time i've seen white ppl smoking in public is at festivals or concerts, you dont walk down the street and see a random white guy rolling a blunt and blazing it on a park bench, sorry, i live in the real world ok, i have eyes

>>11365888
im not having the argument at all, for one thing it is exhausting, im just letting you know that even allowing people to conceptualize the idea that groups can be on average different plants that seed of doubt. then your mind automatically starts loooking for evidence for and against the proposition

the best bet is to say that the groups arent even real in the first pace, and the second best is to say that it is inconceivable that they are different. never allow people to start thinking about whether they could actually be different

>>11365888
do u even have any black friends? the fact that you are completely unable to have a frank discussion about african american culture leads me to believe that no u do not

one of the state congressmen from newark nj said he opposed legalization in new jersey because then white people would come in start getting all the weed sales instead of the african-american community! i couldn't believe he fucking said that, i was like wow is this guy fucking high right now, jesus

>>11365953
sounds like a joke to me

>>11365958
now you're saying african-american politicians are a joke? racist much? go back to /pol/ faggot

where is the original source for the marijuana usage study? where the fuck is it? i mean i see all these references too it, but no sources...i'm getting the feeling it's a bit flimzy

ITT: People that have not read Anna Karenina

>>11365972
ok found it, it caries by year, but blacks have the highest use about 1% more than white on "use per month over age 12" which is an awfully wide term, why not over 18? why not daily use? now i want to see the dataset cuz this shit is suspicious

>>11365930
No shit they blame it on racism, there’s mountains of evidence showing how racism against blacks going back centuries now has produced material conditions that cause crime. None of your arguments about “black culture” hold any weight when considered against mass incarceration (remember, for crimes they didn’t commit or for crimes that white people get away with) taking away black men from their families and denying them a source of income, being barred from educational institutions and higher paying jobs, being passed over for these jobs when they were nominally allowed in, laws deliberately designed to incarcerate blacks, etc. It’s up to you to show why the “black culture” that’s so bad for them is unrelated to these larger social and economic structures, and if it is unrelated explain its cause. You also need to be specific about the aspects of black culture that are causing crime.I know you’re going to come at me with the iq stuff here which has been debunked loads of times. I’m phone posting so I’m not gonna look it up for you, if youre interested spend 10 seconds googling it. I know I’m not going to change your opinion that black people are trash, but you need to be honest with yourself that you’re taking that as your starting point and flailing around looking for justifications later.

>>11363584
Lol

>>11365937
Again, why don’t you look it up instead of assuming it supports what you want to believe? You’re grasping at straws

>>11365987
the thing is black people act the same way everywhere they are. Same crime rates in London for example. We dont evne have to mention every African country.

if there were some counterexample whey didnt act like that we would have a plausible theory but there just isnt one. like your theory is predicated on the idea that every single black population on earth has been destroyed by white people. Which is unfalsifiable

the IQ stuff is not debunked but fuck me why am i having this discussion again. who even cares

>>11365941
As long as people are treated differently based on socially constructed categories then the categories are real

>>11365998
yeah some canadian asshole wash bashing america for having so many blacks in prison on a tech forum, so i looked up the rates for black incarceration in canada, and what do you know, the percentage of population vs percentage of prison population was almost exactly the same multiple as the united states, i thought he might be right since canada didnt' have chattel slavery, but then when i saw incarceration rate was the same well first i shitposted and laughed at him for being wrong, but then i sat back and thought "wow how do u explain that!"
not good

>>11365987
iq is fucking bullshit, but toxic culture is not

did u not see that "8 hours walking around nyc as a big booty white girl in yoga pants" video? every catcalling shitlord was black or puerto rican, there was ONE old baby boomer white guy who looked back and said "damn", young white folks know better than that because they are constantly critiquing and correcting their own culture, or do you think the sjws who made that video edited to only show black guys and that there's an underreported epidemic of soiboi web developers shouting at chicks with fatasses on the street?

>>11365998
>what is colonialism
But I know you think that’s a lie.
Shit like the Malian empire was in full swing while most of europe was fucking around in huts. Nigerian-Americans are one of the most highly educated and successful immigrant populations in the us (which does not prove that they don’t face racism, just that Nigerian immigrants came from wealthier and educated families in Nigeria and didn’t face all the structural problems African-Americans (slave descendants) face). You haven’t bothered looking for counter examples

>>11365996
the report doesnt break down "daily usage" nor "dependence" which they define as regular usage within 5 days or less by race...now think if blacks are using marijuana 300 days a year and white are using it 90 then of course there is more change for black arrests...but they decided not to publish that little tidbit in the report

>>11366016
Again, how is that disconnected from the history of poor material conditions. Poor populations in general have more of a problem with machismo

>>11366018
this stuff is so flimsy bro, there were no literate culture in africa before egypt which now dna tests is showing might have been indo-europeans of all things lmao, at some point you're going to get tired of lying on somebody else's behalf, someone who is dysfunctional and continues to fail no matter how much "help" they get from "white allys"

>>11366019
So find that info for yourself, right now there’s no reason to think that would be the case except wishful thinking on your part

>>11366016
poor material conditions make for a bad social education

>>11366018
Nigeria is a shit show dude, the nigerian americans are the tiny far side of the bell curve so obviously they do well as a group. They're not a real population, they are selected from the Nigerian population because they're smart. You cant say Nigerians are on average smart when if you actually take a sample of the country itself they dont show that.

I am well aware of stuff like the Mali and Benin empires, and I dont see how they're relevant to what we're talking about. France had a cathedral taller than the Pyramids when the mali empire was developing, and the comparisons are again about what is happening today.

This 'structural racism' thing has never been shown to account for these differences, we have never lifted off elements of structural racism and seen a corresponding jump in the outcomes of a given population.

>>11366032
well other than the fact that blacks are arrested significantly more for marijuana use, so yeah there is obviously something wrong with the data

>>11366029
Writing was independently invented only three times, and never by white Europeans. They picked it up via contact with other people, just as southern Africans would have if there had been contact between them. It’s a matter of luck.

>>11366044
Show me where structural racism has ever been “removed.”

>>11366056
im saying to prove that it's the cause you would have to have such an example. A less direct example would be a population that does well because it never came into contact with whites.

>>11366045
Yes, which many attribute to racism for reasons already shown but you believe is due to some other hidden reason with no supporting evidence

>>11366056
how are india and china so successful? are you saying india wasnt colonized? that china's port system wasnt molested by the british? the british were fucking importing millions of tons of opioids into china for fuck sake! can you imagine if they did that to some brown country? the whining would never end

(it's possible the chinese are importing legal (in china) fentanyl precursors into mexico to make opioids out of and then smuggle into america) but that is another story)

>>11366067
what supporting evidence is there for racism tho? it could easily be explained by differences in daily usage, racism is the holy excuse for black failure, you sound like /pol/ blaming the jews for white failure

>>11366061
No, you just have to look at what “racism” has entailed, and look at the effects specific factors of it have independent of race.

>>11366076
I’ve already given evidence and there is an obvious history of it in the US

>>11366084
wait, what evidence? i missed it? it's circular to use that report to suggest racism since its not clear what explains it, racism is one easy lazy explanation but not the only one

>>11366071
i will just preempt the other guy and say that the argument is that colonialism was completely different in Africa and was based around exploitation of resources rather than building infrastructure like in for example Hong Kong.

This is somewhat true, what they did in the Congo for example was large scale extraction of resources that they then brought back, but they were still building infrastructure and educating the natives, it was after all impossible to extract the resources without doing this, with the result that the country was largely functioning in an Apartheid kind of state around 1950 but has since collapsed. Since the reins of state and industry were literally handed over in most cases(taken by force in others) leaving the people with a plausibly intact system, i dont see how it can be argued that things were actually that different. Apartheid was a feature of other colonies as well, it is the transition from it to rule by natives that went uniquely badly in Africa.

>>11366071
Those are historical questions and it’s a massive leap to attribute those outcomes to biological differences when there’s no evidence to suggest that should be the case. I’m not going to analyze the history of Africa, China, and India for you to find all the specific reasons they had the outcomes they did. We’re getting far off base and I was talking about crime and structural racism in the US. If you all want to believe black people are inferior go ahead, I can’t stop you and I’ve got to go. But you’ve all got to be honest with yourselves about why you hold these beliefs.

>>11366108
who's talking about biological differences? i'm just saying african-american culture is toxic shit that whites one day will be guilted for having excused, but as this other poster is bringing up rather inconveniently, african diaspora cultures all seem to be rather unhealthy world wide

>>11366108
>n there’s no evidence
well there is, you just refuse to consider it as valid evidence, using the word 'debunked' to refer to the most robust and reproducible measure in all of psychology, a measure that correlates with outcomes across all different demographics.

Have you ever considered redirecting your last claim at yourself? I mean there are a lot of very obvious incentives for you to be not racist, really life-altering incentives for not being openly racist. Something to think about

man they really did their best to hide the daily usage rate by race, but that leads me to believe once i find it it will blow the fuck out of this fake study

>>11366108
face it, backs never intermixed with neanderthals and that left them behind developmentally, it doesn't mean blacks are "bad people" it just means they are "special"

it's only a matter of time before "data science" will be regulated so only licensed people with phds (from storied liberal institutions of course) will be allowed to use numpy and matplotlib

>>11362262
This post definitely isn't new.

>>11362249
The passage is describing a normie.
People who absorb the default values and habits from their surroundings seemingly without a though exist on both sides of the aisle.
Here's the lesson you should take away: When you read something that confirms all your biases, and from such an authoritative source as [Old Russian Guy #2] no less, just take a pause. Let that throbbing libtard-BTFOing boner subside and consider the text more carefully.
Here's a question you might've asked yourself: Are any of his observations about the character necessarily exclusive to liberals/leftists? Do conservatives not also read newspapers, wear hats, vote based on what they perceive to be their own best-interest, and so on?

I can't imagine reading Tolstoy and thinking "better grossly misappropriate this to own the libs!!"

>>11362262
>Everyone gets it already
Aply this yourself

>>11362311
The person described in the quote in OP is the average middle-class left-leaning centrist. They don't care too much about politics, but they get outraged just enough to show that they care.

>>11363393
>Tolstoy was a left-wing anarchist in the ideological neighborhood of Marx and Bakunin
Except for the fact that he was a Christian and thus had a completely different metaphysical basis for his beliefs. Tolstoy never believed in rational, secular progress.

>>11363456
>I read an excerpt from a mediocre translation into English therefore everything in English is bad
Educate yourself

>>11366534
Tolstoy and Bakunin obviously differed in their reasoning but Tolstoy categorically rejected both the state and private property so they still had a lot in common https://pgyal.wordpress.com/2016/09/08/lev-tolstoys-anarchism-the-marriage-of-pacifism-anarchism/

>>11366125
lmao

>>11366016
>iq is fucking bullshit
retard

>>11366087
>Apartheid was a feature of other colonies as well
It did not happen in Asia, even in countries with multiple races

>>11366879
y u bumpin antique shit this thread already blew its load

>>11366884
I thought Page 4 threads was acceptable to post

>>11366889
oh i guess

>retard thread
>200 replies

>>11366893
It is summer

>>11362249
Wew, this thread triggered the latent leftists of /lit/ like nothing else, brought them all out.

Good job, OP.

>>11365235
> that's only when preceded by "implying",

Whenever "implying" is used it's almost never a quote.

> maybe you are kind low on the iq side

Don't throw rocks when you live in a glass house mongoloid

>>11367287
>I-I was only pretending to be retarded you guys!

>>11364989
There was also no communists in the French revolution. As soon as they arrived on the political scene, "the left" came to refer to them, not bourgeois liberalism.

>>11362308
While I despise you and everything you stand for, it‘s the passage where Lebesjatnikow tells Lushzin how he gladly would organize his wife a lover were he ever to marry legally. You idiot don‘t seem to realize that Dostojewski mocked the whole of the political spectrum, Lushzin is as much of a caricature of conservatives as Lebesjatnikow is a caricature of progressives.

Also I haven‘t read Anna Karenina but isn‘t it self-evidently implied that you can extend this notion of how the protagonist is progressive only because it suits his lifestyle to conservatives? This is applicable in exactly the same way to some conservative who happens to like his family so he regards family as an honorable institution etc.
You laugh about those who are caricatured by these writers without realizing that you are just as laughable.

>>11362249
Also, as someone already has pointed out, the person described isn‘t an actual leftist, but a liberal, and not in your warped american sense, but in the classical sense. The russian term for this flock later in history wad mensheviki, who wanted capitalism, not like the bolsheviki, who wanted to transition to socialism directly from feudalism. You have no idea what you‘re talking about and your contemporary left/right dualism is polluting your view of a work which is far removed from this. You read not to have a genuine experiance, but to see your convictions reinforced and run to your in-group to say: „See? This canonically great author knew all along how right we are and how wrong the lefties are, aren‘t we awesome?!“

>>11368244
>mensheviki, who wanted capitalism
Weren't they social democrats?

>>11368288
In my understanding they wanted Russia to go trough a phase of western-oriented liberalism and free-market capitalism before transitioning to some socialist model, if at all. It really was a heterogenous term used for anybody who wanted Russia to orient itself towards Western Europe. So ‚mensheviki‘ includes social democrats as well as actual capitalists.
This is the very thing I have history finals about tomorrow.

So I dont get it do they only hire cops if theyre racist or somthing? Or do they become racist from the job itsself? Should black areas only allow black cops?

>talking about liberals
>someone says his describing leftists

You Americans are a bunch of raging idiots. Jesus Christ, how can one nation spawn so many brainlets?

>>11364764
this
fuck trotsky tho
>>11364989
the liberals have always betrayed the left for right wing action. See: SocDems in Weimar Republic supporting & enabling the growth of National Socialist governance.
>>11365019
leftists can mock centrists, which are what liberals are
>>11365445
lol
>>11365471
>i've probably met more revolutionary socialists than you've met bernie bros
just because people like to dress up in a fancy ideology calling themselves RevSoc doesn't mean that at the bottom of it, they're liberals that just like to entertain postcolonial theory because of cultural race-shaming. Actual Marxists don't have time for that bullshit.
>>11365933
>tfw OP is such a massive faggot that he can't comprehend how misguided his use of the word 'leftist' is to describe liberals
>>11368288
SocDems have always been notoriously complicit with liberal policies

>>11368622
so this is the power of /pol/

>>11368622
Leftists are to busy sperging about ideology so there isnt much action to be had. I will continue to call libshits the left since it makes you retards foam at the mouth which is always a fun episode.

>>11369101
>If I make people mad, my political stance is correct
Every time I consider that /pol/ may have made a good point on something you all continue to act like autistic children and further convince me to hate you all

>>11362308
I‘m this ( >>11368212 ) guy again. I just remebered what exactly made me so upset earlier: You were missing the whole pointe of that scene as Lebejatnikov actually secretly and somewhat subconciously holds quiet traditional views on marriage. He swears to Luszhin that he‘d organize his own wife a lover when in reality he‘d probably beat her for having a lover. Dostojewskij doesn‘t caricature leftists as cucks, but rather as dishonest and not actually believing in that which they think they believe. They defend their ‚ideals‘ to the point of humiliating themselves, even if they don‘t actually hold them sincerely.

>>11369520
Niggah have you even read Demons?

>>11363456
>nasty little jews
based dosto

>>11362249
you see what you want

>>11369783
And you see differently, faggot?

>>11362249
which translation is that?

>>11364716

You mean liberals, not lefties. 'Left-wing' is a huge term which encompasses many different groups and ideologies. Which as many have pointed out, is nothing new. Liberalism has been around since the 1650's if you consider Locke to be one of the founders of it.

>>11366139
/thread

>>11362249
There was this funny part in The Catcher In the Rye where he talks about this kid he roomed with for two months that always said everything he did, and owned was bourgeois but he always wanted it for himself.

It killed me

>>11362249
>Is anything truly new?
The current infatuation with leftism despite 2 centuries of bloodshed and failure.

>>11366139
>Let that throbbing libtard-BTFOing boner subside and consider the text more carefully.
kek. well done

>>11369581
This >>11362308 guy is talking about crime and punishment.

>>11370690
Looks like Rosamund Bartlett.

>>11369783
You ignore what you want.

>>11362595
When the average citizen spends their entire day working shitting and eating just to spend 80% of their income on a shithole place to live, is that truly living?