/lit/ - Literature

>>11358885
There is someting in me that is fascinated in motive of giving people illusion of rebeling against system, where in fact they are still play into system profit.

Honestly, it probably won't end well. Harris is going to bog them down on the definition of truth again I bet, and neither one of them will budge.

>>11358894
What exactly do you mean by 'the system', and what would a society that you don't need to rebel against (read:smash to bits) look like?

>>11358877
I don't know how to feel about these midbrow intellectuals (if you can call Sam Harris even that) gaining popularity with the normies.
On the one hand, if they're replacing some reality shows, by all means. But I fear people mistake them for proper intellectuals, who in turn get pushed aside and away from the general public.

>>11358905
There have always been these middle brow public intellectuals. It is just that the culture in which they currently operate is, at least in the media landscape, more polarized, so much of their interactions have to be framed in a manner that implies an antagonism between the two or more intellects, as opposed to a conversation.

>>11358902
1.By the System i mean establishment of many kinds of people like politicians, scholars, journalists in today's capitalistic globalism.
2.I don't know how ideal society look like, i only know less defective system and more defective system which needs to be overthrown.

Are their previous debates worth listening to at all?

>>11358978
The one about truth is pointless because it's essentially a butting heads about axioms. Which is fine for 30 minutes perhaps, but not 2 hours.

>*a wild Sadler has appeared*
What will happen?

will it be livestreamed?

>>11359000
Peterson and Harris on the right.
Sandler fans on the left.

Speaking of public intellectuals, are there any out there that do interesting talks and don't shy away from edgy content?
I don't care if there's no big audience or if they're unknown, just the content. Podcasts are OK too.

>>11359022
Sadler*
Forgive me Minotaur.

>>11359023
Thinking-Ape aka Stardusk is one...you can find him on jewtube

>>11359023
Brendan O'Neill is good. He's a bit of a leftie though,

>>11358885
I'd watch a Kacynski v. anyone debate

>>11359010
I'm also curious. Could someone tell me if they're streaming this?

>two non-philosophers talking about philosophy

About as valuable as two non-physicists talking about physics

Harris will make Jordan cry.

>>11359184
What exactly constitutes a philosopher in your opinion?

>>11359184
>muh elitism

>>11358898
Something I really respect Peterson for is his admittance, in a hands thrown up in the air sort of way, that whether or not seeking truth is itself an act of moral or ethical truth, it at least very obviously brings about the betterment of human lives and welfare.

Sam, like almost everyone else, gets halfway there and mentally stalls at the requirement leveled at him by his insights to either make that very same hand motion, or restructure the very fundamentals of truth assignments to value judgments. Something that postmodernism has demonstrated isn't wise to so much as experiment with.

>>11359000
I'd love see big guy schooling these toddlers

>>11359193
Zizek exclusively

>>11359198
No, the problem is that Harris' conception of truth is the commonsensical conception most people have, e.g correspondence theory of truth.

And unless the arguments against it are COMPLETELY knock down, people aren't going to change their mind, and as far as I can tell Peterson's arguments really don't jive well with most people.

That said, it's no surprise to me that Peterson is a pragmatist. He is, after all, a psychologist. And psychology deals with human being and phenomenology, which is a completely different field of operations from the physical sciences.

In fact, you can view this entire affair as the attempt by Peterson to get other scientists to view psychology as a science, and not a woo woo cult. He's not doing a great job of it tbqh, because they don't like anything outside their paradigm.

>>11359000
Someone has started to reupload his lectures. We should notify the minotaur.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSm8StCYtBLW9BJBLcSn4UA/videos

>>11359204
How i imagine it will go

>>11359256
>We should notify the minotaur.

Do it.

>>11358885
what system triks? marry and reproduce? take a loan and buy stuff?

>>11359272
Don't listen to the Kaczynskiites here. They are like a cult of Neo-Malthusians and Neo-Luddites.

>>11358905
It's a repeat of what happened in the early 2000s with the New Atheists, when public intellectuals were in the spotlight. Nowadays it's over free speech and left vs right rather than secularism and if God exists or not.

>>11359286
It's okay to be a luddite

>>11359272
>>11359286
>neo-ludito-post-radical-leftist-reac-cybermoron
This is the system's tricks. Making people think they are subversive when they are absolutely not attacking the system's basic values (technological development and industrialisation) they are actually agents of capital in disguise, striving for maximum efficiency within the system by correcting anything that threatens the system's good functionning. Feminism exists because the system requires an ever growing amount of ressources - workers. Antiracism is the same. They don't want black people to be free, they want to assimilate anyone whose culture and behavior is a threat to the system - disgusting hypocrisy.

Camatte, a marxist. Land, ex professor of philosophy. Heidegger, reactionary philosopher. Thoreau. Carson. Muslim and catholic thinkers.. etc etc.
All these people came to the same conclusions regarding the technological question. Their course of action differs but the conclusion is the same. Now tell me exactly how you're going to make a cult out of this eclectic group of people?

>>11359348
Personally I think it's very anti-human, hypocritical, and authoritarian, because it almost always involves denying the fruits of civilization that you yourself enjoy to other people.

>>11359360
That's not what Luddites were

>>11359360
>it's very anti-human, hypocritical, and authoritarian
This is exactly what luddites are fighting against. God read something please

>>11358885
How does this picture make any sort of sense when JP advocates exactly to play the system's game and be wholly part of it

>>11359363
>That's not what Luddites were

Well we aren't in the 1700s. This is what modern Luddites are like.

>>11359375
get out of here you filthy post-modernist

>>11359206

>>11359377
>Being this butthurt

>>11359206
>Zizek

>>11359000
he said in a q&a stream that he would agree to debate him if peterson himself reached out to him
as in, Sadler on his own is not going to make any effort to get lobster man's attention

>>11359388
and Peterson's just fine avoiding debates himself, so...

>>11359383
at least I'm not illiterate

>>11358877
Medium brow in its purest form

>>11359407
No you're just an ideologue who gets butthurt when someone challenges your high school worldview.

>>11359420
No, you just don't know what a Luddite is

>caring what half-baked reactionaries have to say about anything

>>11359434
don't talk about my papa that way!

>>11359357

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ia0JumPCEI

>>11358885
And worse, hack rightists like Spencer or Shapiro use students disdain to act like a victim.

>>11359537
100x This, Spencer and Shapiro are the same as SJW, this smugness and self-rightusness makes me punch them.

>>11358877
JBP has been doubling down on saying the same shot over and over again so not much different.

>>11358877
More reactionary autism.

>>11358877
What are they debating?