/lit/ - Literature

start with the snorri

Start with the protestants, read Joyce, then end with the protestants.

>>11332302
https://celt.ucc.ie//transpage.html

>>11332368

>the protestants

what Irish protestant writers are there?

>>11332390
could be sterne or burke, but he probably doesn't know enough about irish lit to know why either would be good. he definitely doesn't know enough about sectarianism to recommend the book murdoch disavowed, so he's probably only heard of joyce.
the sectarian divide between protestant and catholic is a very recent split in politics and outs you as having only read snippets of the latter half of the twentieth century, which makes you a pleb in any canon

>>11332390
Yeats, Bernard Shaw, Jonathon Swift, Becket, Bram Stoker, ie as the anon said, all of them except Joyce

>>11332390
Almost every great "irish" writer is protestant
Yeats, Beckett, Berkeley, Burke, Shaw, Goldsmith, Sterne, Sheridan etc

The only good Irish ones were Joyce and a couple of minor writers like Moore and Mangan

>>11332418
>all of them except Joyce
>Joyce is the best Catholic writer
does Protestant school make you dumb on purpose? also Beckett's on legal record as being "none of the above" including Christians, Jews, and atheists. it was a libel case too

>>11332411
>e sectarian divide between protestant and catholic is a very recent split in politics
Imagine having such small knowledge of British politics. There was anti-Catholic hysteria since the 1600s at least, and Catholics were permitted to enter trinity college only a few years before Thomas Moore's entry.

>>11332433
>also Beckett's on legal record as being "none of the above" including Christians, Jews, and atheists. it was a libel case too
And Joyce wasn't really a Catholic

>>11332427
>Almost every great "irish" writer is protestant
>"irish"
t.brainlet or butthurt brit

>>11332427
>he doesn't like Joyce, O'Brien, Pearse, Doyle, anything in Irish, and won't read it if it doesn't have vampires
>has heard of Mangan
You sound like the kind of faggot who likes Byron.

>>11332447
Four leaf coper

>>11332435
Yeah, Swift got kicked out during it and had to spend time in Ireland boating instead of on the Thames. There were antiCatholic laws in Ireland too at the time, but the source of the trouble in 1600 was republicanism (Cromwell's men) vs the Royalists. Keep in mind that the anti-Catholic laws that spring up after the fifth of November 1605 happen because Catholics could have taken royal succession at that point and so factions like the Desmond rebellion posed real danger of the division of the kingdoms.
Imagine not knowing that the Irish history exam is suicide inducing, with points off for imprecise dates. :^)

>>11332438
It depends if you're one of those faggots who includes his childhood poetry. If you lop that off, he's at worst a Marxist atheist.

>>11332468
>Yeah, Swift got kicked out during it and had to spend time in Ireland boating instead of on the Thames.
Swift was protestant
>Imagine not knowing that the Irish history exam is suicide inducing, with points off for imprecise dates.
But apparently not very accurate or minute information

>>11332475
>Swift was protestant
I guess that wasn't enough for the English authorities.
>>11332475
>But apparently not very accurate or minute information
More accurate than thinking Swift didn't have to leave England and that Lilliput isn't in Ireland. You can still go boating there if you'd like a booking number but you may need to get better at geography first. Swift was critical of Irish treatment under English rule and with the return of the Whigs to power, it was likely that he would only survive in Ireland during their tenure.

Or maybe, by what you quoted as relevant, you mean that Protestants don't boat at all. In which case I'll point you to the overwhelming amount of Protestant colleges in Oxbridge.

Forgive an irishlet, but is there much of a body of literature in native irish? Probably just some medieval manuscripts and the like?

>>11332493
>You can still go boating there if you'd like a booking number b
why am I cringing so hard at this guy's posts

>>11332495
Yes there is unless you're a retard that thinks someone being born in Ireland, to an Irish parent, lived in it aren't Irish or the the "Anglo"-Irish aren't Irish. Much of the "Anglo"-Irish were descended from Normans who married into the Irish. Usually becoming ethnically Irish by the second generation.

>>11332495
There's some from the Gaelic Revival but you'd be better off learning Latin to read a lot of the medieval stuff that isn't marginalia [though the marginalia are why most people do read those]. It's not really worth it for written literature.

Most of the poetry contests follow the old form of awarding more points for made up words that make sense and have good assonance without anglicization, so the barrier to entry on the living language is high enough it's probably going to be worse than learning Ancient Greek for finding people who appreciate your work in the original. If you're interested in linguistics or puns, it's a good choice, but not for pleasure reading I'd say.

>>11332502
Is it because your only objection you're clinging on to, with your lack of any historical or literary knowledge or even trivia, is that people like boating. Try it; you seem like you need to relax. Maybe take Gulliver's Travels with you.

>>11332516
Cool to know, thanks. Just realised i'd never really considered it before, never heard of anything irish that wasn't in english.

>>11332518
>Is it because your only objection you're clinging on to,
Irish "prose" lmao

>>11332531

There is a lot of stuff published in the 40s and 50s when the language was more vibrant that haven't been translated, like a lot of Thomas O'Cadhains stuff. I'm learning the language again myself, but I'm really into the old Irish stuff, so I'm considering getting sidetracked into old Irish.

>>11332548
That's English. You haven't stopped being monolingual by magic; you have to wait until you're forty for that wizard power.

>>11332555
>That's English

>>11332554
Old Irish is easier than it looks. Mostly it has extra silent letters, but it's still the same letter clusters for those, and there's some where it's Latinised Irish pronunciation so sounding it out makes the Irish obvious ("ocus" instead of "agus" for instance)
A lot of the imagery of the language doesn't translate so it's worth reading a lot of those for the original expression. The same with getting older dictionaries.

>>11332566
Sorry, you only got dubs and I got triple 5s. Have a (You) in consolation.

>>11332574
Would it be similar enough to modern Irish where 'bh' makes a v sound and 'fh' is silent etc? Also what books would you recommend?

>>11332604
it's also mh dh and some of the vowel combinations before it. if you're into manuscripts, trinity or the bodleian etc probably publish their collections of manuscripts if you check their websites.
you can also get "old irish paradigms and selections from old irish glosses", and use it as a work book if you want more of a guiding hand. the glosses themselves are really interesting because they were translating between languages like greek, latin, hebrew and irish, so sometimes things change slightly in meaning because they don't exist as the same concept in both.

>>11332717
Cool stuff, thanks anon.

I'm reading O' Brien's "The Poor Mouth" in the Everyman's translation. Supposedly it's the only one available. It's really funny. It deals with the Gaelic fanaticism, and makes fun of it in a very witty way, from the point of view of a true Gael that has to put up with the pseud-gaels from the city. It's even funnier given that the narrator thinks himself not a true Gael because he's not as earnest about it as the outsiders. It's a good read if you like O' Brien.

Anyone read much of the revival authors? I've read more about them than i have of them. George Russell's interpretations of the Tuatha de danaan in painting really make me want to read some of his poetry

>>11334760
I've read Pádraig Pearses poetry and political writings. Both are extremely enjoyable. Appreciated 'Little Lad of the Tricks' where it's about Pearse losing his innocence when he became a nationalist. 'Peace and the Gael' is a brilliant piece. 'Is Mise Éire' is a sad poem.
>I am Ireland:
>I am older than the Hag of Beara.

>Great my glory:
>I who bore brave Cúchulainn.

>Great my shame:
>My own children that sold their mother.

>Great my pain:
>My irreconcilable enemies who harass me continually.

>Great my sorrow:
>That crowd, in whom I placed my trust, decayed.

>I am Ireland:
>I am lonelier than the Hag of Beara.
Pádraic Ó Conaire is often described as the best Revival author.
Need to read more Revival authors myself.

>>11332302
sure
>drink a liter of methyl alcohol
>hallucinate
>curse in a completely new language you just made up
>go blind
that's pretty much all you need

It's more political but it should help you get started at least.

>>11332302
It would be nice to have some chart for preparing to read Joyce, especially Ulysses - maybe some good books on Irish history and folklore and stuff

>>11336025

I'm Irish and into history so I might try to make one, but I can't claim to be able to inform people about how to get the Irish literary references. The history is relatively straightforward

>>11336136
compile some list and post it in text form so other people can contribute or criticize, then if we came to some consensus we could make an image

>>11336025
Joyce draws on a much broader tradition than just Irish myth (especially Ulysses). For Finnegans Wake, having a grasp of Irish might give you some better understanding, but for most of his work, a grasp of Norwegian or Marx is more important.
Ulysses should have the Odyssey and its variants as a start any way.

For more Irish based things, knowledge of the Tána and the Invasions are probably more valuable. [Like the Tuatha Dé Danann are most of the fairy tales, though I suppose since the Fomóirí could be aligned with the Titans and the Tuatha Dé Danann with the Olympians they do link back to some works which model themselves on both Irish and Greek traditions, it's just not particularly obvious in Joyce]

>>11335792
I'm surprised there's not anti-Treaty fags all over this.

One of my favourite things in Irish myth is the theme of the kings duty to the land. From literally marrying "Sovereignty" to Lugh being the foil to the terrible King Breas. Like Connor MacNeasa was supposed to be the greatest king Ireland would ever know but his lust cost him his loyal warriors leading to the raiding of his lands and the eventual death of CúChulainn.
>>11336391
I am anti-Treaty but after reading A Path to Freedom I can see why Collins did it. I personally blame DeValera for sending Collins on the delegation.

>>11336391

A good book on the parallels between Irish mythology and others is "Ireland's Immortals" by Mark Williams. It does a fairly in depth comparison of the two mythologies and theorizes on the historical origin of all the elements.

What about Brendan Behan

>>11332471
joyce was a crypto-kike
pacifist, atheist, anti-church, sexual deviant. taught by (((jesuits))). all the hallmarks are there. protagonist of ulysses is a jew who is married to another crypto. extremely jewish physiognomy. just more kike subversion. look into his ancestry you might be surprised.

the things they carried is the best irish lit

>>11336566
>>11337751
>Other people have a nationality. The Irish and the Jews have a psychosis.
based Behan

>>11336435
Yep, de Valera was a conniving little shit.