/lit/ - Literature

>>11311342
vidya is ocming closer and closer to kino, not literature.
If kino can't come close to bad literature then vidya won't eitehr.
But vidya like your pic will surpass kino in other ways as it is the viewer can take a more active eprsonal role in it.
now fuck off
>>>/v/

>>11311342
Tell me, when’s the last time a video game proposed an intellectual perspective on something and was still fun as a video game? All I can think of is how bioshock shat on Ayn Rand, maybe the first deus Ex. Video games are too young to be smart, and at most can only offer their own unique interpretations of themes talked about in books. For example Spec Ops the line is a video game equivalent of apocalypse now as it’s main inspiration was heart of darkness, but rather then have you witness someone else dissent into madness it is you who goes crazy.

Absolutely not. Except Sid meier's alpha centauri, but no, not even that. It has no artistic merit. It's simply the most precise rendition of a civ simulator we have.

nick land plays alpha centauri.

how? name one major production in the past few years that is not produced for and marketed to the lowest common denominator.

The last time gaming attempted something truely groundbreaking was with MGS2.

Video games will always be held back by their shitty god awful industry and consumers

>>11311408
>>11311409
I think you guys are being a little elitists in this matter. Sure, a lot of games is garbage, as a lot of movies, books or whatever are also garbage. I'm not talking about all the industry. I refer only to games that standout in some way, like this Death Stranding, that seems to bring a interestimg theme that isn't very contemplated in games, and brings it in a very creative approach.

>>11311425
I think game developers and artists in general have to be more like Shakespeare. The ideal is to make something entertaining and artful at the same time. Don't forget that all art is, in first place, entertainment.

>>11311451
>Don't forget that all art is, in first place, entertainment.

The mind of a pseud, everyone. Back to your containment board.
>>>/v/

>>11311451
>Don't forget that all art is, in first place, entertainment.
No.

>>11311451
Art is, in first place, an expression of its creator's psyche.

>>11311342
Kojima and the gaming industry are two very different things :^)

Planescape: Torment

>>11311451
>Don't forget that all art is, in first place, entertainment.

Kojimbo is a hack

>>11311342
In my view a good game must be:
1. Entertaining (or if not a game made solely for "fun", well-made)
2. An original experience

So many games don't follow these basic requirements that I don't bother.
Fallout 2 and classic WoW were at the top there for me though.

I can only think of a handful of games I've played that made real earnest attempts at artistic expression, and even then they all seem a bit restrained. Dark Souls builds an amazing world and atmosphere and gives you an emotional connection to the loss and emptiness all around you, and if looked at in the right light, does pack some real meaning in there. I think games getting larger and larger budgets will stall their transition into art, though. Large studios and publishers don't give a fuck and are absolutely not willing to bet their budgets on any creative risks.

I don't know. Kill yourself.

video games are the next step in evolution of literature, play, movie, tv, video game... it is narrative and imagery and character (as in plays) that lets the audience not be passive but invest themselves in the action.

>>11311451
>Don't forget that all art is, in first place, entertainment.
Do you even know what postmodernism is?

>>11311666
Exactly this. Perhaps today we don't have really artful games, but as the media grows and grows, it'll be a matter of time until someone conceives the real gesamtkunstwerk.

mario kart is a touching exploration of how humanity is bound to a never ending cycle of incredible loss and suffering and righteous reward

Video games only ever become "artful" when they reduce the interactive experience to a bare minimum thus devaluing what's supposed to be it's main unique charm.
It ends up just becoming a poor imitation of cinema.

Journey, the PS3 game is the most "artful" game out there. The way it randomly paired players seamlessly was fucking awesome, unique, and it definitely made me feel a type of way. Even without that feature, though, it was a very good experience. It's, of course, nowhere near as "artful" as any great works of literature, but the entire medium has only been around for like 50 years so there's a ways to go. Death Stranding looks really interesting, might have to buy a PS4 at some point.

I don't read fiction pal.

>>11311666
Anon, one of the best movies of all time is the godfather, and movie about a book that is not even good compared to other pieces of literature. while the immersion is a nice way to tell a story from a new perspective, the cost of production means that they have to break even on the product to justify it's creation. That means that they HAVE to sell to a large number of people in order to make ends meet. Books on the other hand are cheap as dirt to make, so you can do whatever you want and get away with it financially. The more it cost to make the art the less artistic is becomes

>>11311666
You are still within the boundaries some cucked up studios marketing department meticulous thought up in order to maximise profits and funding.

Timeless classics already ARE immersive in multiple ways.

have you ever really read?

>>11311806
>>11311809
>these pseuds denying that their favorite media is dead

>>11311816
oh so i guess the kindle's massive success means fucking nothing now

>>11311816
It being dead doesn't preclude it being superior

>>11311806
>>11311809
>immersive
its a different type of art. Its a visual art. And it contains narrative. And it has expanded (un)limits on what can be presented (unlike live action film, which until cgi and effects was limited, now less so, and we imagine video games can be least)

Its simply different experiences.

And this budget studio argument is terrible, because this particular video game crowd, popular video games have 'advanced themes' since the 90s. There are millions of people that are accustomed to heady topics and high visual beauty, complex characters and story lines. The game companies already have so much money, especially coming from playstation and xbox companies which maybe already had billions from their decades of millions of item sales, extreme profits, and they must trust the content creators that have made the big hits, what reflects with the consumers, and not all the consumers are 14 year old mountain dewers, and you can say many of them are, but they are being introduced to complex themes and stories, made by people that are probably familiar with good literature.

>>11311855
what is superior about it. Why could a great original masterpiece novel not by included as a part of a video game? And a high quality play? just as a side quest of a video game, go to one town, and take part in putting on a play, different characters, you help type in some of the lines and have to impress people to move on. Another village, you meet some person whos writing a book, and you have to listen to him recite it, could be 100 page good lit. can do everything literature can do and much more.

Vidya is a dead medium. It died quicker than film.

>>11311878
>>11311806
>>11311809
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuUQCpCpsk4

>>11311891
>>11311878
>>11311806
>>11311809
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuUQCpCpsk4
posting that link to mainly show the size of the audience and ritzy budget of the venue (8:22) for this larpy comment
>Vidya is a dead medium. It died quicker than film.
"US Video Game Industry Revenue Reaches $36 Billion in 2017"

ik ted talks are r*ddit as hell but this one made some good points about vidya being art
https://youtu.be/pJfRmTI7Dx4

>>11311388
Psychonauts
MGS2 Sons of Liberty
Soma

Come on anon, I don't even really play video games anymore but it's hard to believe that no video games offer "intellectual perspectives".

>>11311934
psychonauts fucking slaps in my crib yo

>>11311891
The first metal gear game at least made sense and then started going batshit crazy, this just starts off surreal. nothing they are doing make sense out of context, so i can't tell if it's even goo or not.
What i mean is that they can't be risky with their plots and stuff, so there's never going to be a lolita type game because of the pedophilia. And many people don't really like the walking simulators and movie games that telltale and david cage makes because they are just not fun to play. Books however mundane the plot may be will sill be fun to read is done the right way.
>>11311934
wait what did psychonauts do?

>>11311342
>that /v/irgin that drifts over once every two weeks to make that thread

Unless you rely entirely on an artistic recreation, vidya fails as a storytelling advice. Souls games, assassins creed games are artistic in their representation of historic cities, but i cant think of one vidya game that reflects narrative genius or excellence except maybe crusader kings 2 or dwarf fortress in that they encourage the creation of narratives in your mind.

>dude fetuses lmao
Edginess doesn’t equal depth

>>11311945
call me a s o i but majoras mask was pretty touching

>>11311942
Erudite portrayal of mental illness and psyche in general.

>>11311945
You're thinking in a classicist type of art. Games in general were never meant to be classicist. They are in their best post-moderns, as in structure as in content. And in this manner, some games are examples of post-modern art.

>>11311942
>never going to be a lolita type game because of the pedophilia.
lol...would help your stance if you have any other examples of games you are upset cant be made
>video games suck because they cant make a child porn game

what do you think all those little fairy elve girls are with risque costumes tagging along healing and casting magic in rpgs?

>>11311666
In literature the reader is active. You are not reading the right books if you are not.

>>11311874
Elder Scrolls has in-game books but that doesn't mean it's literature. Literature simply has more potential for highly abstract content and intimate portrayals of characters' minds

>>11311945
>ut i cant think of one vidya game that reflects narrative genius
final fantasy, grand theft auto, spyro, wolfenstein, myst

>>11312010
Gravity's Rainbow, Ulysses, Catcher in the Rye, etc. Most books worth reading at all (that I can think of) wouldn't work as games. It's a different medium, there isn't much of a comparison to be made. Also, pedo pandering in Japanese video games has nothing to do with the content of Lolita

>>11312011
>In literature the reader is active.
different kind of active, if pushing joystick forward and pressing buttons is akin to the eye moving along the page absorbing words, and then depicting words in the mind, then yea, the reader has some more control of their own imaginative vision of the text, so that is an inwardly participation, whereas games is outwardly interaction with the characters, and performing tasks, playing games etc.

>>11311945
not op but im scared of /v/ but i play vidya so i always like when other boards have theeads about it

>>11311342

My games would have been, but now they'll never exist.

>>11312014
>highly abstract content
I dont think you are giving the history of video games enough credit, for the endless depictions of games, challenging tasks, puzzles, etc. abstract inventions and depictions.

>and intimate portrayals of characters' minds
ok, maybe, but who cares, how interesting can a mind be, for what? Im sad, im deep, im edgy, im smart, im scared, x2, x6, ^5... who cares

>>11312010
I-it was just an example
Anyway you have stories like all quiet on the western front which while it would be comfortable, it would be boring as hell for a war game compared to COD and battlefield, the closest was that one ubisoft game but i don't know if it was that successful. You also have books that while in writing are fucking beautiful, if they were made visual then it would be killed. >>11312034 are good example of it as well as cormac's work like blood meridian and the road.

>>11312034
yes, different purposes I suppose, but still there has been blending over time, of literary elements in games, certainly, from pacman and tetris, to now. And many games have similar themes to gravitys rainbow, war stuff, just not as poetic narrative. Same reason difficult to make it a movie, alot of the beauty is in language, so how to make it good without just voice over narrator reading passages.. in video games the poetry, the poetic beauty is in the visuals, and the participative action, and the characters and narrative

It's very bizarre that people think there needs to be somehting special to derive philosophical insight. You can derive it from anything and sometimes the best ones come from the trivial, the overlooked things. Games do not have to deliver to us, they might, but that depends more on how you look at it, than what it is.

>>11311342
no less so with time, gaming peaked in the mid 00’s in storytelling and gameplay, its all aesthetics and marketing now

>>11311806
>one of the best movies of all time is the godfather
Please kill yourself.

>what is subahibi

>>11312166
Seriously, how the fuck did this shit opinion get propagated?

talking about the merit of games is like talking about the merit of hiking trails.
you're not supposed to "uncover" some hidden truth about hiking trails so that we all can agree that walking along hiking trails is an objectively good activity
you're supposed to talk about how it compares to other hiking trails

>>11311342
This thread isn't /lit/, but... if becoming "more artful" means producing a decent (not great, just decent) example of what makes the medium shine, then art really is full of pretentious nonsense.

I am $175,000 in debt making my magnum opus of vidya. In order to further it from the destructive grip of marketing teams, large corporations, and retarded consumers I have sacrificed my wellbeing to bring into this world the first masterpiece of the medium free from desperately trying to make money. You will hear more from me soon

>>11312827

You lucky bastard. Godspeed.

>>11312827
I want to be this guy.

Did someone see those new onion news?

Dark souls is the only one i can think of.
I mean, it's a pretty clear cut fantasy world, but the obscurity of the way it's told and the vague but still direct lorebuilding is pretty impressive.

>>11312827
Hope you post again, i'll definitely buy it, no matter how shit it looks.

>>11312860
Meant for>>11311388

>>11311342

Mainstream video games will never be taken seriously as an art form because your artistic vision has to be compromised in some way to make the game playable. Most Triple A titles at least eventually devolve into shootin' bad guys. Death Stranding looked wonderful until you realize it's probably just another game where you have to kill black shadow demons. Bioshock's story and atmosphere were artful, but you have to mow down countless enemies for no reason along the way to stay entertained. That new samurai game shown at E3 was beautiful, but when it comes right down to it, you're just stabbing guys to a cool soundtrack in a different setting.

>>11312860
The obscurity and vagueness of Dark Souls is overexaggerated; because everything is spread so thinly over plenty of hours it makes piecing it together in your head difficult but when laid out in simple text document it becomes pretty obvious.

>>11312917
Well yes, but there are loads of small things that posit proof to other seemingly unknown threads without being overly obvious. Truths you discover after carefully mapping out all the relevant texts and the logical continuation of them.