/lit/ - Literature

A knock from the FBI

>>11213909
Nice book anon! Do you have a facebook?

>>11213909
A load of horseshit
See:
https://m.imgur.com/a/725A7

>>11213909
I've never heard of this book, but it looks to be refreshing. I've generally seen both 'sides' as being absurdly overconfident about their specific positions, which is unsurprising considering the political implications of the topic, but at the same time glosses over the more genuinely interesting aspects of the 'debate' as it stands.

For instance, the issue of the nature and mechanics of many of the specific gas chambers and the inadequacy of existing explanations is something that was spurred on by the 'revisionists', and for things like this at least they are a positive force that forces historians to confront the more vaguely considered aspects of what actually occurred.

>>11213989
I'd recommend reading this
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2009/05/old-herrings-in-new-can-thomas-daltons.html?m=1
tl;dr it's typical denier drivel
The most deniers have achieved is making historians wonder whether the Soviets fucked up and drilled an extra hole when reconstructing Krema I.

/fit/ler

>>11214029
what's some good meat for gains?

>>11213979
Can I get a tl;dr on that blog post?

>>11214030

What is/lit/ position on the Holocaust?

>>11214039
"Dalton" argues against nonsensical strawmen about what he thinks Holocaust historians say, multiple times, withholding or rejecting evidence, while claiming that he is an impartial third party in the debate. He's basically a denier acting like a skeptic but failing miserably at it.

>>11214048
It happened. 13 million people (6 million Jews, 7 million other "undesirables") were exterminated by the Nazis and their allies via gassing, mass shooting, forced starvation, typhus, etc. from 1939 to 1945.

>>11214053

>>11214056
Fuck off stormfag.

>>11214048
It happened.

The Jews and left DO milk it and ignore other's killed by the Nazi's as well as those killed by other countries (Stalin's killing of Ukrainians etc).

Denier's use other genocides/mass killings as some sort of defense.

The numbers probably aren't as high as the official number.

>>11214053
>forced starvation
L M a o

>>11213909
Did you buy online or did you have to actually look a cashier in the eyes as you bought that?

>>11214049
Is he wrong though? He sounds like a clumsy kike to me, so he might be, but who knows.

>>11214053
Don't forget the human lampshades, greasy kike soap, masturbation machines, death by tickling...

>>11214060
Except for the fact that I absolutely do my best to combat all forms of genocide denial. Whether it's a Turk acting like the Armenian Genocide wasn't real, or it's a tankie trying to say that Stalin didn't mean to kill the kulaks, I make it a point to try to BTFO them.

>>11214067
Showing your anti-Semitism already? Dude, you made quite the quick jump. The masturbation machines were made up by a random Pole falsely claiming to be a Jew, there was soap made in small amounts FROM ETHNIC POLISH PRISONERS, etc.
>>11214065
Dalton is very wrong.

>>11214072
>Showing your anti-Semitism already?
How? I'm only telling you not to forget these important historical truths. If you find them antisemitic, perhaps you should go whine at the Jews who told us about them, huh?

>>11214074
You know damn well that your tone and your wording leaves no doubt that you are making anti-Semitic remarks not to troll, but out of an actual hatred of Jews.

>>11214063
Found it at a second hand book shop. I looked them in the eyes.

>>11214072
>there was soap made in small amounts FROM ETHNIC POLISH PRISONERS
[citation needed]

Half truths and outright lies spoofed up in a scholarly style designed to convince those that are too lazy or too stupid to discover that the same old arguments used in books have been around and debunked since the 1960s.

>>11214103
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/10/tests-show-that-nazis-used-human.html?m=1
The article link is dead, the blog saved the text fortunately

>>11214053
13mil is way to high of a number.

>>11214147
But it's not.
These deaths pile up. Mass shootings, gassings, etc.

>>11213979
This is some serious "the Jew cries as his hits you" shit right here. I wouldn't be surprised if this is your own blog post and you're daftly trying to defend it, but a post that has an introduction longer than the actual post projecting their own insecurities in not necessarily on my to do list of reading.

It's basically starting off swaggering saying an awful lot but accomplishing little with more material than substance.

>>11214053
>forced starvation, typhus

You gonna thank the allies for that shit or what?

>>11214072
>there was soap made in small amounts FROM ETHNIC POLISH PRISONERS, etc.
>Urge to see evidence intensifies

>>11214155
Wanna back up the gassing? Not calling you a liar right out the door here, but most people trying to establish them as proof usually fall flat on their face.

>>11213979
While I do belive that the holocaust happened, I think:

>How we know that some 900,000 Jews were murdered in the gas chambers
Is rather interesting.
How do you kill a million people with gas?
Surely that is the LEAST effective method of killing people, as it requires at least two transportation's of prisoners (once dead and once alive) and an enormous supply of gas.
The logistics for that had to be enormous and I don't see why anyone would waste their time, if you can let the prisoners just dig a grave and then shoot them.

I once asked another person eager to disprove holocaust deniers on /pol/ about how the nazis managed to kill millions of people (this certainly is a very large number) through gassing them and he responded by saying that gas deaths were a small minority.

>>11214202
They already tried just shooting them, the Einsatzgruppen got PTSD from it. They were getting cold feet.

>>11214155
Not to 13mil. Divide by 6 and you will probably get a sensible number.

>>11214128
Based!

>>11214191
Evidence is presented in the album. Get past the fact that the author is annoying at writing.

Why would you stop and cut people's hairs before gassing?

>>11214216
>They already tried just shooting them, the Einsatzgruppen got PTSD from it. They were getting cold feet.
How is gassing people any less gruesome then shooting them, obviously you only need one guy to pull the lever, but still someone needs to clean up the mess and even if the soldiers don't do it themselves they still need to supervise it.
I don't see how a soldier would get PTSD from shooting any more then he would get PTSD from the gassings.

>>11214219
>entire Eastern Front
>Einsatzgruppen conducting mass shooting after mass shooting
>Soviet POWs being deliberately mistreated
>Jews being gassed
>Jews being denied sufficient amounts of food and dying as a result
>Jews being shot
>fags being mistreated to a somewhat lesser extent
>Gypsies get the Jew treatment too
>political prisoners and dissidents get put in camps too
>hurr all these people can't possibly add up to 1403 million
There were like five million dead Soviet POWs ALONE.

>>11214239
To give them the illusion of safety so they don't panic.
>>11214240
Fewer people have to deal with it if you gas them. There's a difference between looking children in the eyes and shooting them and entering the gas chamber after they've been gassed and disposing of the bodies.

>>11214242
It's so sad they couldn't finish the menace.

>>11214231
Starting to think the author is you. I CTRL+F the album looking for Soap and the only result is a comment. Not looking through it bit by bit when you already posted a link here >>11214128 and boy oh boy, the first link in the article is a 404 and to make matters worse the comments are tearing the article apart. Not really doing a bang up job of convincing me here.

>>11214262
This trip is unironic communist see >>11210497 this thread for proof

>>11214242
Adding the death of USSR soldiers to your counts. LAMO are you so desperate.
Yea no shit that if you add that it gona inflate the numbers. But we are talking about the Jews here you Dumbo.

>>11214262
The comments agree with the article dumbass
But it's almost time for me to go to bed
Peace out

>>11214270
>pointing out that an anon is a retard who doesn't know what socialism is makes me a commie
>>11214271
That's completely asinine. The Holocaust was not strictly about Jews.

>>11214254
>There's a difference between looking children in the eyes and shooting them and entering the gas chamber after they've been gassed and disposing of the bodies.
Personally I can not imagine the difference being big.
Having to go into a room with dozen of people you know were just killed and having to carry them out is nothing I could imagine as anything but REALLY disturbing.
At least shooting them is fast, having to carry them onto a truck and then bury them is something I can not imagine being far from it.
This really is not convincing at all.

>>11214254
>To give them the illusion of safety so they don't panic.
How can you justify that mount of man hours spend on cutting hair if you are fighting the largest war in human history and are loosing (at least after Stalingrad)?

>>11214279
I know what socialism is for I lived next to USSR when it reigned and live in a democratic-socialist shit hole myself

>>11214279
>The Holocaust was not strictly about Jews.
The Holocaust is EXPLICITLY about Jews.

>>11214279
It's not about jews. Kek

>>11214283
>as well as members of other persecuted groups
Literally in your own image.
>>11214281
Cutting hair doesn't take an hour, dude, it takes like ten minutes at the most. They're not getting fancy barbershop haircuts here.

>>11214292
Yes, but that does not predicate upon the initial clause. It is the larger context, learn to read.

>>11214254
>To give them the illusion of safety so they don't panic.

Let me guess, the Typhus excuse? The typhus that was going on towards the END of the war which the Allies didn't help with their bombings of the railways?

>Fewer people have to deal with it if you gas them. There's a difference between looking children in the eyes and shooting them and entering the gas chamber after they've been gassed and disposing of the bodies.

How about those people workin the furnaces which by the way the number of deaths needed to make the number of furnaces in the camps is mathematically impossible given the time between years in the war and that's being generous and saying the furnaces back then were burning bodies to ashes at the rate modern furnaces do. Need I also remind you news papers were pulling the six million number out their ass before the war even STARTED. Who the hell was keeping score and how did the news outlets find out? Isn't it strange how almost all the news papers who started this shit were Jewish owned?

>>11214273
>The comments agree with the article dumbass

Horse shit, don't sit here and insult my English and act like I can't read.

>>11214292
>it takes like ten minutes at the mos
So for the 900000 gassed the German government wasted 150000 man hours?
This is an enormous amount of time wasted, ESPECIALLY when you are loosing a war.
Didn't the people have better things to do?
Like building fortifications or even as civilians manufacturing weapons?

>>11214301
>How about those people workin the furnaces which by the way the number of deaths needed to make the number of furnaces in the camps is mathematically impossible given the time between years in the war
Not every Jew was gassed in a gas chamber dumdum

>>11214308
>Furnace
>Gas chamber

One of these is not like the other.

>>11214308
>Not every Jew was gassed in a gas chamber
Apparently 900000 were (in Auschwitz alone), which is an enormous number.

>>11214302
Not every action is rational dumdum, especially when you are in an existential crisis against two front war and your dear leader is chugging down mind altering drugs at increasing tempo..

>Like building fortifications or even as civilians manufacturing weapons?
probably didnt trust them, not evne modern priisons trust prisoners with this much

>>11214301
>Modern ovens which are much more advnaced and efficient take some time to burn a single body and in Auschwitz alone nazis were supposedly burning them by the thousands daily in ovens that were
I love this argument. Nothing quite shows a stormshit's ignorance and/or dishonesty as much as it does.

Modern human cremation takes time, because of little things like respect for the body and attempts to get the ashes into nice clean urns for the grieving relatives. When you don't care about that, things like animal cremation, well, you have stuff like this.

http://www.hurikanincinerators.com/hurikan3000.asp

A fully portable incinerator with a burn rage of 2-3,000 kilograms an hour. If we assume that the average dead Jew of the holocaust weighed 100 kg (220 pounds for Americans), likely a gross overestimate given wartime conditions, and the fact that you had a lot of women and children among the dead, then 6 million Jews (not that all of them were killed in camps and incinerated), would come out to 600,000,000 kg, and assuming an average burn rate of 2,500 an hour, halfway between 2 and 3 the advertisement claims, you need 240,000 hours, or 30,000 working days, assuming you only run it for 8 hours a day. If you have the 53 muffles that Auscwitz alone ran at its height, https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/96/Leisung_der_Krematorien_in_24_Stunden_lt._Zenrralbauleitung_der_Waffen-SS.jpg/440px-Leisung_der_Krematorien_in_24_Stunden_lt._Zenrralbauleitung_der_Waffen-SS.jpg, you can do that in less than 2 years.

Oh, and by the way, you should check this out, https://ia802607.us.archive.org/11/items/cremationdead00eassgoog/cremationdead00eassgoog.pdf (PDF page 124). Apparently in 1875, they could burn bodies of "more than average weight" in less than one hour, a better time than modern funeral home crematoria manage today. More proof that long cremation times are not done out of technological impossibility.

Now good night stormfag.

>>11214315
>>A fully portable incinerator with a burn rage of 2-3,000 kilograms an hour. If
modern.

>>11214313
>Not every action is rational dumdum
Yes, but I do not expect that the order to cut the prisoners hair was a spur of the moment decision, as that seems not something anybody would really care about.
Also considering that the German army had been enormously successful, before Stalingrad I doubt that the high command suddenly became entirely inept and started to care about the hair of prisoners about to be gassed.

>probably didnt trust them, not evne modern priisons trust prisoners with this much
I was under the impression that the camps were partly built by the prisoners, so I would assume that at least building a wall is something more valuable to spend time with.

JIDF working hard tonight, would post some good documentaries if YouTube didn't instantly ban any account that posted them

>>11214315
>Modern human cremation takes time, because of little things like respect for the body and attempts to get the ashes into nice clean urns for the grieving relatives

No cocksucker, it takes approximately 8 hours to INCINERATE a body to ashes. Prep time is not part of it. I love how your best argument is calling me a stormfag when your arguments has been flimsy at best.

I like how you show a modern furnace made for CHICKENS. I like how you're also talking about ANY furnace than the ones USED on the sites were people were claimed to be burned. Go fuck yourself with your stormfag shit, your evidence isn't conclusive you two faced commie.

>>11214323
>I doubt that the high command suddenly became entirely inept and started to care about the hair of prisoners about to be gassed.
They actually did tho.

>>11214315
Wait I thought they were gassed? But then the Jewish prisoners dragged all the bodies to another site to incinerate them? What did they do to the bones and where did the bury all the ash? How come core sampling never shows any significant finds of buried ash?
Oh wait no point trying to get an honest answer

>>11214332
>They actually did tho.
My question was WHY?
It obviously was a large time sink.

>>11214336
No idea. All I've read is about the lies and deceit of Germany's high command after Stalingrad. Irving who is a nazi thinks they didn't trust each other and especially not Hitler.

>>11214336
Witness statements from survivors of the camps said it was because they wanted to convince Jewish prisoners it wasn't a death camp, they were tricked into thinking they were being deloused and taken care of and then gassed. Hair was also sent to Germans to make mattresses. This is the official information from 'survivors' from Treblinka iirc

>>11214342
>Hair was also sent to Germans to make mattresses.
what..

>>11214340
>No idea.
Why did you reply then?

>>11214342
>Witness statements from survivors of the camps said it was because they wanted to convince Jewish prisoners it wasn't a death cam
Firstly, I find that hard to believe, I doubt that you could gas nearly a million people without the prisoners at least suspecting it, but granted that.

It still seems like an enormous waste of time to do that, if instead you could do so many other things.

>>11214344
https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2014/03/12/abraham-bomba-one-of-the-barbers-at-treblinka/
Just Google what they apparently used Jewish hair for after it's shaved, there's multiple different uses for it apparently and easier than me posting the link for each one

>>11214354
https://youtu.be/JjMiZakKdzc
From 58:00 onwards you can watch the section about the supposed hair cutting at Treblinka

>>11214048
/lit/ is not one person. Personally, my position on it is one of a skeptic. I wasn't there, I didn't experience it. It's also clear that there are motives behind both sides making their claims, one side to make the bad guys look better, the other side to make the bad guys look worse; considering the nature of WW2 as a war fought with religious fervor and eschatological implications, it's understandable that the battle in its wake has been over the competing narratives in order to convince others of the "good" and "bad" sides for the next war.
I will say that I don't think there's a need to deny the ‘Holocaust’ any more than one needs to deny that Daleks fought in WWII; as with all historical events, the burden of proof is on the one making the claim. However, the question I would ask is why there are no laws requiring people to believe that Daleks fought in WWII. If an event occurs (or is assumed to have occurred), then questioning of it should always lead to more evidence about its existence, if it did happen. There's no reason to limit discussion about historical events which definitively occurred (other than for propagandistic purposes, which should not be considered valid from a historian's standpoint.)
There are interesting points made by the revisionists that I don't think can be completely ignored. Towards the end of WWII, many people in Germany were dying of starvation and simple illnesses due to lack of food and medicines. If this affected soldiers and civilians, why would it not affect concentration camp prisoners? And if one accepts that it did indeed affect concentration camp prisoners, why then seek a more convoluted explanation for their deaths? Who benefits?

>>11214279
>holocaust isn’t about Jews
Surely you can’t be this retarded?

>>11214486
ofc it wasn't you dumb fuck.

>>11214392
Wow this is tge single stupidest statement I've ever EVER heard. I'm going to assume you know nothing of how history is reconstructed and you're talking out of your ass, because if you did it'd be even more embarassing, honestly.

If you actually used a historical approach you would find thousands of witnesses with minor or no detail describing what happened there. Many described things as soon as they got back: how would a massive scale ruse of the Bad Jews be organized in the late forties to be so capillar? Unless you deny even deportation happened, of which there are countless witnesses, lists of deported people, and if you weren't such a cocksucking fucking fag, you'd understand that there are people whose families were partially deported. My great grandfather was a conniving fascist jew (not proud) and you know what, he was deported and all his belongings were given to the fascist government. How in fucking hell would that have not happened and I would still have letters and my mother's aunt's witness of their family being deported. This kind of skepticism is toxic because it's not in good faith. You wouldn't be skeptic about the Wright brothers inventing the airplane or Albert Einstein actually discovering General Relativity, despite there being way less proof that it was them and not some other guy they stole the idea from who did all these things. The point is, you're allowed to be skeptic as long as you actively try to confute your theses. If you just like being an asshole, you're an asshole not a skeptic

>>11214658
I have no idea if this is in earnest good faith, but you aren't helping your cause either way.

>>11214665
How so

I am reading an interesting book called "Soldaten" right now by a historian and a psychologist team.

Apparently the historian guy found some massive treasure trove of transcriptions from POW camps in the war, basically the Allies bugging and recording things to find intel and incidentally capturing everything else.

The parts on the Holocaust are fucked. The soldiers all more or less know about it, though there are a couple who think Himmler is a crazy murderer guy who has created a state within a state, or that the SS is half staffed with old police types and half with psycho criminals. Mass murdering is fucking amazingly grotesque.

I'm sympathetic to the revisionists because I will defend free speech no matter what, and because I think devil's advocate types are necessary, but goddamn even as a right wing inclined person I don't think I can do the holocaust denial shit. At BEST, what can you deny? The camps? If Einsatzgruppen and mass executions are massively in evidence, proving Himmler at the very least was an absolute psychotic barbaric monster, why is it such a leap to say that there were systematic death camps too?

>>11214658
>Wow this is tge single stupidest statement I've ever EVER heard.
I apologize if not being certain about something means that I'm stupid. I will never be embarrassed to ask for more evidence about events, or to question any narratives; the only possible outcome of such questioning is greater understanding of the event in question.
Do you disagree that the burden of proof is on the one making the historical claim?
>If you actually used a historical approach you would find thousands of witnesses with minor or no detail describing what happened there.
If they only have minor, or no details about what happened there, it wouldn't help the case you're making, unless I'm misunderstanding your phrasing, which is likely. Perhaps you could reword this?
My claim is only that there should be physical evidence and plausibility to back up testimony.
>how would a massive scale ruse of the Bad Jews be organized in the late forties to be so capillar?
Could you try to reword this? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
>Unless you deny even deportation happened, of which there are countless witnesses, lists of deported people, and if you weren't such a cocksucking fucking fag, you'd understand that there are people whose families were partially deported.
I never made such claims so I'm not sure why you feel the need to insult me.
>My great grandfather was a conniving fascist jew (not proud) and you know what, he was deported and all his belongings were given to the fascist government. How in fucking hell would that have not happened and I would still have letters and my mother's aunt's witness of their family being deported.
OK? So because of your testimony I should not ask any questions about any parts of the historical narrative? As I said, if it happened, there's no reason to be upset about wanting evidence for it.
Also, it seems to me you equate the "deportation of Jews" with the Holocaust, whereas in the consciousness of most people, the Holocaust involves the deliberate and systematic extermination of Jews. I think there's significant evidence from both German, Jewish, and Allied sources regarding Jewish deportations. My questions revolves around the other claims.
>This kind of skepticism is toxic because it's not in good faith.
So, my question would then be, is it possible to be skeptical about the Holocaust in good faith, and how would a poster on an anonymous imageboard successfully be able to come across as wanting to understand these topics in good faith? If it is not possible to be skeptical about the Holocaust, if no one can argue against it "in good faith", then it has been elevated to the status of dogma.
>You wouldn't be skeptic about the Wright brothers inventing the airplane or Albert Einstein actually discovering General Relativity
You're assuming much about an anon you don't know.
>The point is, you're allowed to be skeptic as long as you actively try to confute your theses.
>confute your theses
Do you mean their theses?

>>11214658
I'll give you some advise for future posting on this website:
Read the post you are replying to before replying.

I think this is a valuable and hard lesson, but it tremendously helps the discussion.

>The point is, you're allowed to be skeptic
Not in all countries.

> You wouldn't be skeptic about the Wright brothers inventing the airplane or Albert Einstein actually discovering General Relativity,
And I won't go to jail for denying this, even if I deny it with awful scholarship and bad intent.

As an unironic filo Soviet commie, I think the holocaust happened... But:
>Jews are overrapresented
>Jews also used it as an excuse to do bad shit and cash on it
>It's teached the wrong way in schools
>The true victims were eastern europeans, russians and commies
>The human soap and other shit like that is just bullshit america propaganda

only a fucking moron of a historian would put phd on their book

>>11214658
Just because your grandfather was deported doesn't mean the holocaust happened lol
You say all these survivors publish minor details but for several camps (Treblinka, sobibor) there is only a hand full out of thousands of people that give testimony, one of the camps only has a single witness to the events inside

>>11214068
That seems narrow minded..

>>11214029
I've seen worse irl just from needle infections. You don't know the kind of homeless people we have in Baltimore

>>11214331
That's false actually. I'll link you a 1880 book showing they did it in around 1 hour.

For now I'm just posting this.

>>11217190
I'm finished with whatever I was doing so

>>11214053
based

Finally about the holocaust denial law I'll say this:

If your argument is that there is something fishy about the holocaust because contesting it is forbidden in some countries and that if everything about it was true then people would simply see it and accept it; then you're blatantly ignoring about how we think. There's many peoples who will believe in what they feel is right (in this case, jews lie) and will disregard evidences to the contrary, not research them or lie. This is true for many things including the holocaust.

So the laws are against those people. You may disagree about their effectiveness but there is no denying that many deniers take their feelings for reality and are ready to bend history to spread their delusions. See pic.

>>11214331
no it doesn't you stupid fucking retard

>>11214202
>if you can let the prisoners just dig a grave and then shoot them.
... Because they were in the middle of a war that required 110% of their manufacturing capabilities and a million bullets is a lot of bullets.

>>11214331
>>11217190

Here's a book I promised

Page 106-107, a body of 144lbs burned in fifty minutes.

https://ia802607.us.archive.org/11/items/cremationdead00eassgoog/cremationdead00eassgoog.pdf

Even if you don't believe this, there's a table later on which show thaat you could burn a body in around 1h-1h30.

Now imagine furnace made for mass incineration.

Haven't read much of the thread, but here's a thought: In a war were countries, and especially Germany, were routinely doing the impossible in feats of engineering why would anyone question the Nazi's ability to successfully kill 6 million jews one way or another? The same Germans who built the first operable jet fighter and the V-2, first object to even reach the stratosphere....

>>11217538
And a screencap. Don't know why I didn't think of that before.

I honestly didn't care whether or not the holocaust happened or was exaggerated until I saw how the people who insist it did happen argue with others. When I have the truth on my side and I'm capable of expressing it I never feel compelled to insult others and I never have a problem listening and putting in a good faith effort to understand the other side. It's only when I feel insecure that I start to strawman others and refuse to concede anything to them. I see a lot of this on the "holocaust did happen" side and it makes me think that the "denialists" are speaking truth to bullies.

>>11214123
Thank you. Now I don't have to think for myself.

>>11217579
Because denialist are either retard who gobbled up the first argument they've read without bothering checking the other side or are straight up lying. Just look at >>11214331

>>11217688
They could be actual retards who only know the first argument they've heard on the subject. That doesn't make them wrong it makes you an asshole. Think about that for a minute. You're arguing with Nazi's who deny the holocaust and you come away looking the worse.

>>11213909
>Ph.D
this man has a serious inferiority complex

>>11215881
>trying to combat genocide denial is narrow minded

>>11217708
>That doesn't make them wrong

When they're failling for an argument that has been debunked for years, then yeah, it makes them retards. At least spend 5 minutes researching the argument instead of immediatly believing that a widely known event was faked by at least 4 different countries.

>You're arguing with Nazi's who deny the holocaust and you come away looking the worse.

In your view , certainly.

>>11217938
If it's so easy to debunk then you should have no problem doing so without the insults and exaggerations. Argue their position better than they can and then debunk it.

As a neutral person on this subject when I see you resorting to namecalling and strawmans I have to assume that you're insecure about your position. Naturally I start to think that there is something to these denialist claims. You're turning me into a holocaust denier.

>>11217938
Stop arguing with Holocaust deniers. Nothing you say is going to change their mind.

Also, this guy is one of them >>11217973

Just a reminder that Reinhard Heydrich (generally accepted to have been the primary architect of the Final Solution) was himself apparently of Jewish descent.
Heydrich betrayed his own people and orchestrated the deaths of millions of them. He was human scum.

>>11218085
>"denier"
This talmudic rhetoric is tiring. Jews get busted all the time for lying about being in "death camps" and the amount of transparent lies that have come out about it are seemingly never-ending. People who question this shit jews have tried to mythologize to the goyim to enshrine their perpetual sense of victimhood are in the right.

>>11217973
>If it's so easy to debunk then you should have no problem doing so without the insults and exaggerations.

Of course, but why would I. If you're an emtional cunt that going to side with neo-nazis because you see them being insulted online for spreading lies then what can I do ?

>>1218085
Yeah, I've though about that. That's quite jewish of them. Is antisemitism just one big projection ?

>>11218127
>hurr durr da joos

>>11218127
By this logic why should we trust you ? You've been caught lying several times.

>>11213979
>A Gish Gallop of strawmen and links
No thanks, if I want that level of argumentation I'll just go to IHR or /pol/

>>11218135
I'm merely starting to think there may be some validity to their claims based on how emotional guys like you get. You're calling me a cunt for asking you to stay cool.

>>11218137
Jews are bad people who are extremely dishonest and hostile. If you still don't get that you're either an idiot or jewish.

>>11218137
>When your only arguments so far is spamming meme images and blog links
Awww you people have more in common with /pol/ than you think <3

>>11218143
You quoted my first post itt.

>>11218153
>itt.
hey it's you

>>11218127
Unquestionably. Ignore all the Jewish shills, mate. Praise Kek and Deus Vult

>>11218135
>Siding with neo Nazis
Bro you can debate figures of any major genocide without supporting whoever committed it. The Holodomor is another example of a hot topic genocide that is likewise a censored debate

>>11218147
t.has never actually met a Jew
>>11218145
You realize that's an anti-denier album, right? It's combating retards like the IHR and /pol/

>>11218161
>The Holodomor is another example of a hot topic genocide that is likewise a censored debate

Because it was committed by jews, orchestrated by the jew Lazer Kaganovich.

That's the theme here: jews lying about the supposed genocide of their people while covering up their much greater genocide(s) after taking over Russia in 1917. Jews are a very sick and deranged people. Their victim scam is eternal and a means to allow them to take power without being questioned.

>>11218177
I'm all for debunking tankie bullshit, but you went full stormfag here.

>>11218153
And by you, I meant neo-nazis or denier in general.

>>11218146
Too bad, Stormo. Suck my uncut dick and guzzle on my 100% pork-free semen.

>>11218161
First off, when you're resorting to lie and and massive misrepresentation to prove your point, you're not debating you're just trying to prove propaganda.

Second, the vast majority of holocaust denier I've seen where either antisemite or trying to rehabilitate nazis (same thing in the end). There's probably a bunch of crazy people who don't believe it just because it's a very famous event tho. I do believe at least that the people pushing the denial the most are actual neo-nazis

>>11218189
How do you know he's lying?

>>11218196
Not him, but I know he is because he went full "JOOISH BOLSHEVIKS"

>>11217552
because the entire alt-right movement is built off the idea that: the Nazis were an organic movement who were not funded by Anglo-American bankers almost entirely or old German elites; the Nazis science was sound, ergo anyone who has opposed it is not a valid source of scientific insight, thus whatever the Nazis believed must also be true (even though only the tiniest portion of their belief, that you can improve or maintain a race with eugenics, is sound); since the Nazis were against something demonstrably evil, Bolshevism, they were justified in doing anything in their power to stop it and any "illegalities" or malevolent behavior emergent from their effort to fight "evil" is justified; the Nazis are the spirit of the White race which was silenced for 70 years and no matter what they did they're simply a defense against Jews; Nazis are basically just Nature doing what is normal, so whatever they did is irrelevant; since all of these hold, we can say whatever we want, even if we have to lie or become forgetful, we'll always have a few of our premises which are so robust as to mostly justify everything we need to take power

they're really clever schizophrenics, the cleverest of all of them because moreso than mystics or godfags they have the ability to blend in with the public, they tend to have higher iq's than most other political factions except lolberts and commies, and they are generally well read and/or mechanically useful people who can dominate others financially and socially or rhetorically. One has to learn to respect all kinds of insanity and all possible iterations of pathology before you can really hope to stymie or cut out the source of the disease. Making them into retards or repressed cartoonish animals is a failing strategy. The Left by definition cannot defend itself from reaction, it manufactures the Fascist threat by overreaching as a rule. The public is giving birth to demons again because the Center is incompetent and exhausted, they don't have any panaceas left, computing power hasn't advanced at the rate it should have, we were supposed to have a brown utopia by the end of the second decade of the 21st according to the Fukayamist faggots of early 90's. Its all going to devolve back into a gayer version of the 30's with more impotent tantrums from the right and left, and even less effective countermeasures from the Center against economic disintegration. Trump is Coolidge honestly, he's going to crash the economy, the ACC retards have no idea how unstable things are, or maybe they do and they're not telling their alt-right friends what Trump is setting up.

>>11218186
>stormfag
You need to update your insults.

>>11218189
>antisemite
"Antisemitism" is caused by jewish behavior. Reacting against and opposing it is natural and mandatory.

>>11218208
>da Joos had it coming!!!

>>11218203
What reason do you have to believe he doesn't really believe what he's saying?

>>11218208
https://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/7295lg/antisemitism_is_historically_a_result_of_jewish/
I know, it's Plebbit, but get over yourself.

>>11218213
When you get kicked out of 359 countries it isn't everyone else's fault. It stems from your group's behavior. That's just common sense.

>>11218222
See >>11218221 you dumb stormfag, you keep increasing the number each time.

>>11218189
>Everyone who disagrees with me is a liar
No
>"""""Rehabilitate the Nazis"""""

You mean that they see the Nazis differently than you? A lot of people who low-ball estimates or outright defend the Holodomor are communist sympathizers as well but identifying them as different does not in itself disprove them.

If a holocaust denier starts talking about Jewish bolshevism then refute his evidence. It's a simple as that , the problem is that you dehumanize people who disagree with you so this is impossible.

>>11218228
359 is the most recently calculated number. Take your JIDF bullshit off /lit/ though, you jews shouldn't be posting here to begin with. No one's buying it anymore.

>>11218236
If you see the Nazis or communists as anything other than evil you're fucking insane, dude.

>>11218221
You really ought to learn how to talk to people. Nobody reads shit you link in lieu of an argument. It's lazy and if you're not going to put effort into a conversation why should anyone else?

>>11218237
Like pottery.

>>11218204
Your to cents is basically just a bunch of stereotypes built a priori by your own biased against groups you fundamentally don't understand - which is the exact same mode of behavior you accuse the modern day """"""Nazis"""""" of

>>11218241
You really think democratic capitalism has been so much better? I don't see either any ideology as being inherently evil

>>11213962
The FBI pursues liberal comedians and "black identity extremists" not neo nazis you disingenous chud fuck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I_DPvfN-2Q

https://www.reddit.com/r/ChapoTrapHouse/comments/8j7nqr/episode_210_ice_to_see_you_feat_jake_flores_51318/

>>11218245
You're obviously a jew, so you shouldn't be posting here.

>>11218243
>READING IS FOR FAGGOTS
Why are you even on /lit/?
>>11218246
I've interacted with Neo-Nazis plenty of times. I understand how they think.

>>11218196
Here's some of the main arguments for denial

>Auschwitz couldn't burn the 1.3 millions
>Wooden door
>Prussian blue
>Eastern death camps
>no mass grave
>no documents
>all testimonies are lies or obtained through tortures
>allies bombing being the main indirect cause of death
>*post book about holocauster or masturbation machines*

All are straight up lies or deformed arguments.
For exemple, the books with the outlandish testimonies are true. But some of them were written by non-jews for a few easy shekels, the only one who remember them are stormfags who bring them up endlessly and more importantly historians don't consider those books as actual testimonies.

>>11218222
First off they didn't get kicked out of 359 country, secondly you're misrepresenting thousands of years of histories. Sometime it was their fault, yes, but other time not. And people shitting on groups similiar to the jews has happened all over the world. Look at the Tutsi for a modern exemple.

>>11218236
> the problem is that you dehumanize people who disagree with you so this is impossible.

But nazis are humans ? I don't think that there is a truly inhuman act, today society is basicaly one of the safest and less violent possible which give us a very skewed view on thing.

>>11218256
>y-you're secretly a Jew!
Fuck you, paranoid retard, I'm an Episcopalian.

>>11218259
>Neo-Nazis
You're transparently a jew using fake words. Get the fuck off /lit/, jews should not be posting here. Period.

>>11218241
This is the worst sort of religious dogmatism. I value truth and wisdom above all and wisdom dictates that I have to admit the possibility of me being wrong. This means there's a possibility of the Nazi's or communists being right so they should be heard.

>>11218261
A lie is saying something is true while knowing it is false. All of those arguments could be false but that still wouldn't make them liars if they genuinely believed them.

>>11218266
4chan is not your echo chamber, dumb /pol/tard. Everyone can use the site. Stop trying to gatekeep.

>>11218261
>First off they didn't get kicked out of 359 country, secondly you're misrepresenting thousands of years of histories. Sometime it was their fault, yes, but other time not.
Yes, they have. And it's 100% their fault, they are gypsies squatting in other people's nations so it can't be anyone else's fault.

>>11218263
That's 10x more pathetic. You're a useful idiot for a people who hate you.

>>11218249
Well, it sure work better than nazism and communism. Even if they didn't kill anyone via wars and other means they destroyed economies.

>>11218246
lol at you

>>11218279
>j-jews hate me!!! look at these random quotes!!!
Jews hate Neo-Nazis because they want to fucking genocide them, dipshit. If you unironically believe that DA JOOS RUN THE WORLD, check yourself into the nearest mental hospital because you are clinically insane.

>>11218287
Jews run all of the media in your country and have brainwashed you, which is why all you're doing here is repeating their victim narrative talking points. Wake up, buddy.

>>11218298
>WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!!

>>11218271
And if they genuily believe them, they are retarded, as most of them can be debunked via google search.

>>11218279
Post the list of country then

>>11218298
they don't run Fox News at all, and for the longest time no Jews owned CNN either.

>>11218259
>Neo Nazis
There are almost no neo Nazis. Most people in the far right try to distance themselves from the national socialists and Nazis. I've interacted with those types as well and found many different stereotype breaking resultss

>>11218261
>But nazis are human
To you only partially, that is very evident by your overall attitude towards them. I'm guessing your interactions with them has been seeing football hooligans or such. The Nazis I have interacted with hate those people

>>11218308
>And if they genuily believe them, they are retarded, as most of them can be debunked via google search.

That's beside the point. They're not liars until you have a reason to believe it.

>>11218308
You can find information on the research online. The file I have of the list is too big.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=Jews%20expelled%20359%20times&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=jews%20expelled%20359%20times&sc=0-22&sk=&cvid=C044C3771BBB4849A2FADF468DE474F1

>>11218311
>To you only partially, that is very evident by your overall attitude towards them.

No ? I just don't like them because:

1) historical lies peddling
2)nazi germany was economically pretty shitty

>>11213909
read finklestein you fucking pleb

you disgust me

>>11218309
It's not definitive that the Murdoch's aren't jewish. But CNN is a jewish cesspit.

>>11218319
This give me a list of locations not countries. Again, exageration. At least make a list of reason why the jews were kicked out.

>>11218335
>muh crypto-Jews
Also, Ted Turner isn't Jewish

>>11218335
It's almost as if what? This is something that the mainstream recognizes and even has an unspoken worship for.

It's all fading away these days anyway, but you are stupid if you think that during the heyday of Jew worship everyone didn't know exactly what they were doing.

>>11218340
You can find the list at several links on the search page I gave you. Jews are desert semites who do not share European morality. They've been expelled for many reasons, usually having to do with the exploitation of their host population, from usury to selling white people into slavery. They are very twisted people but you need to do your own research.

>>11218373
Again, I've found lists of locations not countries.

Oh well, good night, stormo, may your jewish tactics fail again and again.

>>11218373
>muh conspiracy theories

>>11218320
>They are inherently lying
No, and that's why it's apparant

>>11214053
Wasn't it only six million last time?

>>11218381
It's not other people's job to do your JQ research for you. It's a complex problem you presently don't understand because you haven't devoted the time required to understanding it.

>>11218486
>6 million Jews
>13 million total
>hurr wasn't it 6 million last time?
Are you illiterate?

>>11214072
OY VEEEEEY

>>11218541
Just stumbled on this thread. Well done in here. Don't know why you're wasting your time with these people, though

>>11214060
t. denier

>>11218580
Thanks.

>>11218335
if the list isn't from the same year it doesn't mean anything, and I didn't say CNN didn't have a lot of Jewish executives or reporters, I said for the longest time CNN was owned by Turner Entertainment which was run by Ted Turner the WASP billionaire left-of-center retard boomer who owns the giant Bison reserves in the middle of the plains states.
>its not deifnitive that Murdoch is not Jewish
there has never ever even once been a single shred of evidence to show that Rupert Murdoch is Jewish, his mother is descended from nobility and her Father and Mother's last names and background are not Jewish. Its just something stormfags made up and spread to ATS, GP, /pol/ and the other idiot hovels of confirmation bias sufferers. His mother's father was an Irishman and her mother a Scottish-English mutt of some upper bourgeoisie or lower aristocratic extraction. He is a WASP, he looks like a WASP, he sounds like a WASP. For most of the late 20th century nearly all news media was run by WASP's, Jews have captured more of the market because of Time Warner buying up CNN and Time Warner essentially becoming controlled by an Israeli billionaire. Rupert Murdoch shilled constantly for Trump and he's good friends with Jacob Rothschild and loves Israel. really makes you think doesn't stormnigger?

>>11218594
Good goy, enjoy the pat on the back from your master.

Fucking idiot.

>>11218624
>da joos

>>11218335
also it is worth mentioning most of the executives at Turner are not Jewish and that most of the key people at CNN are also not Jewish

>>11218615
Jews are nepotistic semites that stack white-built institutions with their tribesmen once they get a foot in the door. They're also liars, which is why no one trusts the media anymore. It's this type of behavior that has led to so many jewish expulsions, and why one is now needed and likely coming.

>>11218642
Stop trying to cover for your tribe, it's not working anymore and people realize that jews have to be removed.

>>11218644
[Citation needed]

>>11218649
>W-WE WILL DESTROY YOU!!!
This kind of rhetoric gives away that you are an angsty teenager. You have to be 18 to post here, anon.

>>11218309

>>11218580
>>11218594

Yes well done anon good job

>>11218679
>more conspiracy theories

>>11218253
lmao the FBI purses anyone and everyone you clown, welcome to america where everyone is a potential criminal until proven innocent as dictated by the patriot act

>>11218659
>>11218670
Are you white? If so there's really no excuse for you not understanding the jewish problem unless you are low IQ or just lazy. Until you are willing to go down that road you should at the very least keep your mouth shut instead of defending a people who literally view you as their enemy and slave.

>>11218695
>I don't need actual sources, here's random quotes and hoaxed documents!
Fuck off retard.

>>11218710
You need to grow up and acquire a better understanding of the world. Jews are bad people who come from a sick culture and are causing enormous damage to the west. You are a fool for defending them.

>>11218726
You keep saying that without actual evidence. Stop fucking posting. Sartre hit the nose on the head about anti-Semites like yourself.

>>11218743
Sartre admitted to doing no research on jews for that book. And just like him you know nothing about the topic on which you're attempting to speak. You're a useful idiot for your own enemy, a total fool.

https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2018/04/17/sartres-anti-semite-and-jew-a-critique-part-one/

>>11218751
>the Occidental Observer
Kek

>>11218759
You're a very pathetic person for defending a people who hate you. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're 14 and don't know what you're doing.

>>11218779
>people who hate you
Saying this does not make it true. I can tell that you're mentally unhinged. We're done here, I refuse to argue further with alt-right retards with an IQ of 88 and whose mother gave birth to them at 14.

>>11218788
You should feel embarrassed advertising your own stupidity as you have in this thread.

>>11218791
Pot, meet kettle.

>>11218802
You need to stop posting here until you're more educated about the JQ. Might also think about changing your name after this sad showing. Lick your wounds and try to get up to speed.

>>11218815
More like "brainwashed by neo-Nazi bullshit."

>>11218822
Everyone who understands the jewish problem was once repeating what you are now, because that is the propaganda. Now stick to rêddit until you're ready to take on the subject honestly as the rest of us did to break out of that.

>>11218822
Jew Commie cries out in pain once found out.

>>11218245
>someone actually took the time to make that picture

>>11218815
YOu're not even trying ti debate the holocaust anymore, you've been exposed as a liar.

Why trust your side on who's a liar ?