/lit/ - Literature

Go ask your underage friends on reddit

>>11176347
They way I understood Vaporwave, it's like a sort of subversion of subversion, a slight nudge towards the original, but through layers of degeneration and irony. Like so many things, it was kind of ruined by normies though and assimilated into the regular neutered-subverted cultural sphere.

>>11176356

>>11176347
Vaporwave is punk, except with aesthetics instead of teenage rebellion
I've also never heard any vaporwave music, I'm just talking about the art, which I love, because I exist on a level of hyper-irony so much so that it's literally impossible to put into words.

>>11176347
People who don't remember pre-9/11, remember pre-9/11 through implanting fake memories built from surviving ultra-capitalist media sources. Easy peasy, 's all it is.

>>11176365
>I exist on a level of hyper-irony so much so that it's literally impossible to put into words
The cringe, oh God... the cringe.

>>11176365
>because I exist on a level of hyper-irony so much so that it's literally impossible to put into words.
then its nothing

>>11176361
Eno Ugh???

>>11176385
Yes

(Brian) Eno Ugh!

>>11176347
To me it seems part of a post-modern obsession with recycling and repurposing "dead", stale or otherwise dated artefacts, which are planted into an ahistorical virtual world that is sometimes windows 98 and sometimes the kitsch virtual world of the future. I presume it offers some cultural commentary about what happens when antiquated ideas/values are reintroduced into present society, though its creators are too disparate to unify their ideas into a intellectual movement as such.

So you're right to say it eliminates the "historical" dimension, but really its because the genre is so grounded in the indeterminacy of the contemporary moment, always asking the question "Is society moving forwards or backwards?".

>>11176387
Somebody is angry at that fella...

>>11176381
I like to imagine it like this: art is a sandbox. kids do all kinds of things in sandboxes. Some dig holes, some build sand castles, some bury shit and some just scream really loud and eat fistfulls of sand becAUSE THEY FUCKING LOVE SAND SO FUCKING MUCH.
It's like that. Hyper surreal memes and ultra ironic post modern bullshit is just a kid eating sand. I love it.

How do the two rule eachother out?

>>11176393
The mocking of mall capitalism would be the historical context, but yes facism can also contain anti-capitalistic thoughts

>>11176392
You're a retard who's been cucked by the internet. I bet 1000 bucks you live in a shithole country.

>>11176413
stay mad, pissbaby

>>11176347
Vaporwave (I'm talking about the sincere version not the normie meme shit) is ambient music (or muzak) repurposed to fill a space in the mind of a future that no longer exists of lively social shopping malls (ironically killed by the internet) to provide the listener with a sense of comfort within space that otherwise they would not be able to easily find.
Ever heard some ultra-reverbed out speakers playing U2 or The Police?
It's like (or was) repurposed avant-garde replication of "the ideal time", that in itself is fascistic because to assert that there was an ideal time assumes that you remove suffering by force (i.e. the working class welfare etc.)
The parameters of vaporwave exist mainly within the space of: Glass and marble (luxury), commercial art (luxury), high entertainment (luxury) etc.
Fundamentally, most Vaporwave champions a world without the poor or hungry, itself is a projection of capitalism wherein the food court is "bountiful" and the adjective readily described is "abundant". But in a sense, Vaporwave besides itself hard capatalist edge is rather lacking politically, part of it's intrigue is it's non-representation of humanity within that space (mall).

>another anon argued that vaporwave is just a try to mock "mall capitalism".
What a fucking moron

>>11176392
thank you for descending from your sky palace of unutterably advanced irony to tell us plebs that it can actually be uttered after all and the utterance turns out to be "i am like a child who is retarded".

>>11176443
well, yeah. what do you think hyper-irony is? I like unironically like ironic things unironically ad nauseum.

>>11176454
>what do you think hyper-irony is?
no such thing.

>>11176475
being a little bit hyper-ironic, aren´t ya?

>>11176365
>>11176392
>>11176454
What a shitty life you must have

Anyone who argues that the aesthetics of vapourwave mirror that of art movements like Futurism that served fascist agendas is really just indulging in wishful thinking. I'm sure someone like Ricard wolin could make a cogent argument about fascist inclinations within postmodern genres like vapourwave, but it wouldn't represent the discourse in this thread

>>11176514
how come?

>>11176438
that... thats really ok comment. I simply cannot think someone can double down on OP's comment but yeah great

>>11176347
First it was a tongue and cheek reference to the capitalist culture we have because of the multiple product placements in the pictures , and vaporwave music was just A E S T H E T I C
Then the /pol/ posters didn't understand that, but instead were drawn in by the nostalgic feeling that the music and appearance created. Thus they adopted it as their own and now the levels of irony became just blatant propaganda for a fascist movement

>>11176347
When Benjamin writes about the aesthetization of politics he talks about political events not works of art, such as war for war's sake. The elimination of history in favour of style is one of the main characteristic of Jameson's postmodernity though (what he calls historical amnesia) and I think vaporwave match a lot with his description of postmodernity (ironic plays with the already said/sold, isolation of the signifier in the signifying chain and so on). In fact it seems like an exaggeration or an acceleration of this view on postmodern culture. Some vaporwave artists speak about situationist influences but I don't buy it, it seems to be more like Jameson's pastiche than situationist's détournement

>>11176347

IT'S YOUR MOVE

>>11176347

If the first half is true I may have been a fascist this whole time without knowing it...

To keep this /lit/ related, White Noise by Delillo is the most vaporwave novel I have ever read and touches on the consumerist influence on culture that permeated especially in the 1980s.

>>11176347
>Benjamin

hits blunt

vaporwave got trump elected

>>11176347
Fashwave came after Vaporwave and basically just stole it's entire aesthetic (and music) and photoshops pictures of Mussolini over it. They also think it's "cool" to put black bars over eyes because it's for retarded 13 year olds who just found the internet.

>>11176347
It's fash-like in some respects that fashies have latched onto but is mostly 80s aesthetic and remix culture shit

I think Trump gave it a Mussolini dimension because vaporwave is primarily american cultural remix and Trump himself is an 80s relic with proto-fash leanings, especially in the areas of privatization and xenophobia

You could argue pic related is fash for the same reasons

>>11176385
It’s so hard to keep up with the slang these days

>>11177213
>Trump himself is an 80s relic with proto-fash leanings, especially in the areas of privatization and xenophobia

Privatization isn't fascism and Trump isn't xenophobic.

>>11177265
>Privatization isn't fascism
LOL, back to /pol/ you go

What is so "hyper ironic" about vaporwave? The colors, designs, music, etc are just appealing. And how does the facism part play into it? From what I can tell, it's just a hip trend that the youngsters on /pol/ picked up (albeit a little late) and now have deemed it "fash" so that they can resonate with it more.

>>11177205
What drives someone to become so deprived that their political beliefs have become their prime identifying trait? Why must all of their interests involve their political position, even if it means cheaply stealing an original idea and stamping third-rate edits onto it?

>>11177429
Lack of identity and pride, so they must latch onto something that they can claim as an identity. This not isolated to one ideology and you can find this on both the so called right and left. Look at an antifa rally and look at an amren conference, they're not the best looking bunch.

>>11177280
???
it isn't.

>>11177392
Hyper irony isn't actually a thing. It's just what what I call things like that. You know. because it's something people like "ironically" except some people actually really do like it (like myself) so it's hyper ironic because you're liking something ironic unironically. It's just stupid. Some people in this thread got big mad about it tho.

As far as I'm concerned, Vaporwave and the like,. and in some cases memes are just a new iteration of dadaism. It's random, the driving motivation behind it is either entirely aesthetic, or intentionally surreal. so it's devoid of the inherent weightyness of conventional art, because conventional art comes from a place of needing to convey -something, anything, and that's always there. These kinds of things don't have that.I like that a lot. Like I said, it's like a kid playing in a sandbox, doing stupid shit because they can.

Of course, I know fuck all about vaporwave being co-opted by /pol/ or some shit, but whatever. Life is a nightmare, and if I gave a shit I'd never fucking enjoy myself.

Wait, is fashwave a legitimate here? I thought it was just a forced meme

>>11177501
It is but it became it's own thing separate from vaporwave but still using similar aesthetics. Fashwave isn't the first to do this obviously there is also seapunk and other smaller "branches" of vaporwave

>>11177501
>>11177548
I don't think it was a forced meme, Fascism always had a certain aesthetic to it, and people commented on that in the 40s too. The Nazi Party was stylized and like to stylize themselves to appeal to the youth in a way through a sort of edginess. Vaporwave sort of, seems to me, captured that aesthetic, you know the giant david bust with the face scrubbed has a sort of neo-classical visual feel.

The other thing about is that musically the songs are very nostalgic for a past. It just sort of happened to work with the aesthetic those people already had in mind.

Luckily for it's opponents as far as an aesthetic it was a flash in the pan and is totally rinsed out now.

>>11178976
>The other thing about is that musically the songs are very nostalgic for a past
the funny thing is that people making this music are people that would be despised by poltards. let me see if I can find you that Lake Radio facebook post

>>11179000
here it is

i dunno but vaporwave is gay. most my friends who listen to it have absolute shit taste

>>11179000
Yeah I don't think that really matters, it's just like how the Nazi's latched onto Nietzsche and Wagner, the art had a life of it's own.

I mean really think about it, if a type of art appeals to people with a certain ideology, it doesn't matter if it differs from the personal opinions of the creator. The art naturally fills that ideology's niche.

>>11179000
>>11179022
That's the point, they want this exact response, what has Lake Radio accomplished here other than signal boosting the alt-right and fed the deranged liberal stereotype?

>>11179045
>Wagner
Out of everybody you could have chosen for your example you chose Wagner?

>>11176347
vaporwave is megalopolitan rootlessness the art form, nothing could be more degenerate than uglifying classical art out of context and hedonistically dosing up on opiates or other narcotics while you sit in your shipping crate cuck apt with your two faggot xanax addicted roommates listening to macintosh plus. /pol/ is enamored with it for the same reason they love robocop and 80’s bully movies, they’re vapid fantasia obsessed niggers of the Kwa like every other insect that crawls across the rotting Irminsul trunk of the ancient world. Everything about /pol/ is decadent, the absurd manic thread speed, the indiscriminate propagandizing with absolutely no standards for recruitment, the massive number of pedophiles and moe anime fans brought into their fold, the opportunistic prison sexuality which encourages homosexuality and traps, the tribal coalescing around RNC and Fox news totally memory holing Murdoch and the Adelson-Bechtel-Koch-Coors controlled RNC leadership. fucking animals is all they’ll ever be and vaporwave is the schizogenic nigger ensemble of the pre-death vision stream our culture is facing. its the dreg heap, the great garvage patch at the end of the subconscious, nothing pure, nothing holy, nothing that transcends itself, there is no natural innocence (in the most violent sense of that word) in remixing dead aesthetics with stillborn art (corporate). Its fascist because fascists are debased husks, its not fascist because of any other peculiar virtue or element within the genre. People who listen to vaporwave are addicts, they are emulsified in Soma, in narcissistic social media experiences “lol we changed the world guys!!!!1!” and in being proud of KNOWING ENOUGH and BEING BASED because being cool, being spotless socially and faux roguishness, a doubling back on rebellion to become reclaimed as a caste, this is their great emanation, the extreme fury directed against their own incompetent stuttering senescent macular degeneration. they are blurry eyed barely sentient pussy entrained, brain entrained, totally submissive zoo animals. Chad is just another color to fly when you’re hiding in the rubble of your bombed out necropolis, Berlin is YouTube is Twitter is the election. And we’re all crawling across the rubble, little beetles and cockroaches come to devour lichen, the bacterial colonies that spring up after calamities. 2012 really did happen and Trump is the beginning of the End.

>>11179079
I couldn't think of better ones, I think my point still stands tho

>>11176365

>>11179045
Well that doesn't make much sense to me. I think it has more to do with people on the internet being manchildren in general and being hypnotized by a certain aestethics (how the fuck has 80s/90s nostalgia anything to do with fascism? lol) and less with ideology.
>>11179069
>they want this exact response
They don't want anything anon, they're totally clueless. They aren't doing it to get a response and no one gives too much of a shit about them desu.
>fed the deranged liberal stereotype
Expressed his disdain for people who misuse his music? If /pol/tards started using my music for their political diarrhea I'd be pretty pissed as well (even though my hypothetical facebook post would be more like "fuck off /pol/, you're all a bunch of niggers")
>>11179092
I agree with every single word of this to be honest. It's also fucking repetitive.

>>11179131
>Well that doesn't make much sense to me. I think it has more to do with people on the internet being manchildren in general and being hypnotized by a certain aestethics (how the fuck has 80s/90s nostalgia anything to do with fascism? lol) and less with ideology.

I don't think it has much connection on any logical sense, just the Aesthetic generally encapsulated what the movement wanted to convey emotionally.

You could make the argument that the '90s represent some goal post to shift back towards, a whiter America even.

People in general are childish on the whole. I mean popular culture in general isn't about acting like an adult or growing up emotionally. We are all emotionally stunted by this society.

>>11177491
Wouldn't liking something ironic unironically just be liking something? If I like cigarettes or beer or something, but I acknowledge that it's bad for me, do I hyper-ironically like them? That seems kind of silly.

It started as just being an abstraction of 80s consumerist/internet culture. Its just fetishization of the past.

You can boil down "ironic vaporwave fans" pretty easily.

Do you like vaporwave?
>Yes
>No
If yes, why?
>I like the art
>I like the music
>I like the vibe that it gives
>I like what it represents
I like it for two or more of the above options
>"I like it ironically"
If you "like it ironically", why?
>I am too scared to admit that I like it unironically for some reason
>I fit in better if I pretend that my humor or taste is on some sort of non-existent upper echelon of comprehension
>"You just don't get it"

If you ended up at the final option, could you be kind enough to explain your reasoning to me?

>>11176347
it's just random shit on the internet you dumb cunt
stop trying to appropriate everything for your political subversion, most things are nothing beyond the surface.

>>11177213
I sincerely hope this is bait.

>>11179092
reactionary paleocon garbage

Anything can be facism if you want to.

>>11176438
Serious Question: Is White Noise a literary analog to vaporwave?

>>11179385
It seems to be a predictor of vaporwave. I was certainly getting a vaporwave feel when reading it and could imagine it being directed in the style of Lost in Translation or Her.

>>11179302
there is an aesthetic and epistemological element to all things by definition
>>11179340
im not a reactionary or a paleoconservative

>>11177247
ACCELERAAAAAAAAATE

Bump

>>11179401
>i have a black friend i swear

>>11176347
majority of vaporwave, at least the original artists never really used anything from current political events. They wrote a manifesto but i've never read it. As far as I know it's supposed to capture the feeling of failing capitalism (empty malls are the epitome of this) in an ironic-nostalgic melancholic way by using "futuristic" aesthetics mixed with dated (usually 80s) music and images.

>>11179438
This is the best summary of the aesthetic. It isn’t necessarily capitalist critique so much as longing for the promise of 20th century consumerist culture, be it the perfect union of classical ideals with modern technology and human sensitivities or the Japanese urban utopia or the American mall of unlimited choices bringing even the lowest flyover state into the global culture. The impossible fantasy that nighttime tv sold, reinterpreted through the lenses of a generation that could never savor its fruits.

It’s important to contrast this colorful wistfulness against Oughties desolation (the garage punk revival, the earliest signs of suburban decay setting in, the overall idolization of “trashiness” in pop culture, the peak of reality tv, the dust and grime of the whole Afghan war). It’s basically kids who barely or never grew up in the 20th century wondering “if this is the future, what the fuck comes after?”. Contrast against regular 80’s fetish, which is more “look at how strong and powerful and great society was in the 80’s, look at how bold the aesthetics are”, a wholesale repurposing vs. a reinterpretation.

>>11179431
i am curious as to how far you think this kind of social signaling will go on an anonymous image board where there are no repurcussions for speaking your mind

>>11179503
how far should it go according to your estimations?

>>11179438
>>11179496
daily reminder that giving this much thought to artless internet movement is the equivalent of americans who think that Black Panther is a powerful social commentary

>>11179506
>should
I would assume it should stop as soon as you felt the urge to type “reactionary paleocon” without a hint of irony on an anonymous image board with an ideologically heterogeneous userbase

>>11179531
then why are you posting?

>>11179531
>ideologically heterogeneous userbase
we're actually all sjws here and this board was just a huge prank all along

>>11179512
>that's not art
O please, anonymous internet nobody, enlighten everyone as to what "real" art is. Actually, save yourself the embarrassment and go shitpost in another thread.

>>11179512
>This much thought
I wouldn't have been able to hit the submit button if I gave it any less thought

>>11179022
What a fag.

>>11176365
Oh my god what a fucking faggot

>>11179069
You're retarded if you think telling people (who aren't lolcows or mentally ill) to fuck off will make the fuckoff-ie better.

>>11177280
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istituto_per_la_Ricostruzione_Industriale
>Although IRI was not intended to carry out real nationalizations, it became the de facto owner and operator of a large number of major banks and companies. By January 1934, the IRI reported that it controlled “48.5 percent of the share capital of Italy,” and a few months later acquired the capital of the banks themselves, prompting Mussolini to declare on May 26, 1934 to Italy’s Chamber of Deputies that “Three-fourths of Italian economy, industrial and agricultural, is in the hands of the state.”

>>11176683
Wow! Bad comment!

>>11177280
Nice, are you going to make him go back to /pol/? How is that gonna happen?

the virgin vaporwave
the Chad synthwave

>tfw too stupid for aesthetics apparently

>>11176347
Comparing vaporwave to the artefacts of nazi aesthetics that Benjamin had in mind is pretty mindless and disgusting.

>>11176389
Good post

>>11176347
Idk good points good points famalam.

Seriously though is this sort of similar to posting grainy video of conflicts in the middle east from the 1980s? Because that's more of a lefty thing and I'm still all over it.

Maybe not though because in hindsight those are all documentaries. When you say eliminating historical dimension, is that basically just the whole "It doesn't matter that nothing matters" thing?

>>11176389
Appreciate (You) anon.

>>11180691
Well, yes, but Benjamin's point that the aestheticizition of politics is fascistic still stands.

>>11176438
>that in itself is fascistic because to assert that there was an ideal time assumes that you remove suffering by force (i.e. the working class welfare etc.)

That's just generically modern, it isn't unique to fascism. I always interpreted vaporwave as being ironic, but even if we accept your narrative, I think it's clear that fashwave is rooted in irony and mockery (right wing death squads is a meme).

It could also be rooted in the radicalization of previously classically liberal spaces in the last several years. E.g. I've seen videos depicting the rise of Pinochet using Xurious as a soundtrack, which always just struck me as a holdover of old ideology.

>>11176523
T.b.h. most contemporary art movements can easily be explained by millenial impatience leading to aesthetic impulsiveness that is functionally no different from a teenager reblogging #aesthetics on Tumblr because "they look nice."

>>11176947
WE'RE BACK

>>11176347
It's called metamodernism. It's a rejection of post-modernism (which has marxist roots) and strives for a return to traditionalism.

>>11179131
>even though my hypothetical facebook post would be more like "fuck off /pol/, you're all a bunch of niggers"

Because we all believe that someone like you would have the courage to stand completely alone by shunning the right and sinning the left.

This board has become so reddit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1NaR4jr-8k

Vaporwave is anti-capitalist, or at the very least anti-consumerist. Fascists didn't really seem to get this and instead only liked it (and appropriated its aesthetics) because of the sense of nostalgia or longing for a past that it gave them for a past they never even experienced in the first place. Pic related.

>>11180929
>Fueher cult
>Fascism

Fucking dropped

>>11180944
Metamodernism is not a return to traditionalism. It's an oscillation between modernism and postmodernism. A pragmatic idealism, if you will.

History is imploding because journalism has collapsed because rationality is no longer valuable. No one walks back crazy-as-SHIT-house-rat claims anymore. The left or the right. Tribalism is taking hold and it feels good man. I believe the earth is flat because it upsets you, and so on.

/leftypol/ buzzwords
/leftypol/ buzzwords
/leftypol/ buzzwords

>>11180970
>t. trump cultist

>>11180998
I like the way you think, Anon.

>>11181005
I know this is bait but holy fuck kill yourself

Vaporwave is the airport expressway monorail, transporting you to your departure gate every fifteen minutes.
Vaporwave is falling into a half-sleep at a swimming pool in the Golden Sands resort, as the blonde a few sun loungers over gets a Pina colada served on a little cocktail napkin.
Vaporwave is a polo shirt sale at the golf club reception shop, while stocks last.
Vaporwave is Coca Cola, for good times and refreshment.
Vaporwave is, "you are now connected to the internet".
Vaporwave is hypertext across a computer generated hillscape background.
Vaporwave is the 90s leisure capitalism extended into an alternative timeline where 9/11 didn't happen and we are still sipping limited edition frostberry soda in the shopping mall food court.

>>11180021
Synthwave is arguably the virgin genre. Bunch of geeks with neon wireframe desktop wallpapers listening to the same synth beats over and over, yes, yes you like to drive at night, don't we all. Fetishing the 80s like Ernest Cline because they want to imagine what it's like to be the Chad cheerleader-slayers and not the locker-stuffed virgins they were. And I have listened to and liked some synthwave. Vaporwave just more patrician, of course I am saying this all ironically can't touch me

>>11176347
>blah blah blah blah blah blah blah what do you think?

>>11180963
trve fascism is also anti-capitalist or at least anti-consumerist

>>11181102
>don't we all

I fucking hate driving at night.

>>11181102
Vaporwave is entropic and depressing, just like your virginity. Synthwave is powerful, violent and dashing like a raging colt. There is no doubt which is the superior genre
>>11181141
virgin detected

>>11179537
>enlighten everyone as to what "real" art is
not vaporwave, for sure.

>>11176683
correct

>>11177429

As opposed to identifying with gender, race, the products you buy, or the celebrities you worship? Identity politics is cancer, and this latest wave is entirely the US's fault.

>>11179537

The Symposium.
The Divine Comedy.
The Death of Ivan Ilyich.

>>11181927
>30-year-old-boomer-core

meh

>>11181952

>the quality of a work of art depends on the age of the person reading

>>11176390
He has devastated agricultural communities with his laser eyes, you know...

>>11181892
RACISM IS BAD! *ignores black kid getting shot on the streets so then I can write angry paragraphs on why the Odyssey is in fact the work of a pig*

>>11179365
t. Adorno

>>11180691
you are right, vaporwave is pretty disgusting

>>11181037
nice!

>>11180963
>Vaporwave is anti-capitalist, or at the very least anti-consumerist.
No, that is literally why Fascists like it. Why would you talk about something you don't understand?

Oh, duh, I forgot where I am.

You're missing the point. What I'm saying is that you don't NEED to center your life around one thing, be it gender, race, politics, etc. Form your own personality; be an individual. Don't let an obsession define you.

>>11183468
Oops, meant to quote this post >>11181892

>>11179533
because of the Will to Power
>>11179535
i know i am just toying with them, i have a vibrator milking my prostate into my genderfluid 20 year trans male lover’s throat as i type this, i protest voted for HRC after /ourguy/ boine sandburger failed, don’t even know what a shill or wikileaks is

>>11183496
>i have a vibrator milking my prostate into my genderfluid 20 year trans male lover’s throat
sounds pretty good actually

>>11179022
>If you hold the view that...political correctness [is] hurtful to society than LAKE RADIO is not the music for you.

Aww man, now I'm gonna have to delete that one album he did in like 2010 when he was semi-relevant to the witchhouse scene.

>>11180961
>posts reddit-logo
yeah i wonder why?

>>11180963
anti-capitalism is a main propaganda point of early facists

>>11181152
Why not?

>>11183519
ya she cute
>>11184878
electronic music isn't art, music that was produced without having to master an instrument isn't art. people who make electronic music are manipulating suites of sounds and quantifiers on mixing programs. There's little skill involved

>>11184890
If anything there is more skill because they are dealing with more sounds, You don't need to know how to play an instrument to make "good" music these days.

>>11176347
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvoB82NMOoY

>>11185042
>If anything there is more skill because they are dealing with more sounds
if you deal with more sounds (which are electronically supplied for you) then you are more skillful

that doesn't follow, there's no reason why the consequent would hold.
>You don't need to know how to play an instrument to make "good" music these days
There is no good music post 1900, not a single track holds up under close inspection. the addition of dedicated vocalists was a grave mistake and electronic music is an extension of this mimesis

>>11185048
You are deciding what is and isn't good music from a subjective standpoint and there is no point in arguing that, be more clear on why it isn't good music. Sounds from programs use recorded sounds from instruments still they aren't all electronically produced. You are dealing with more sounds which means more patterns that can be made. Not in real time like playing an instrument but it does take more skill because the number of sounds.

>>11185048
I'm not saying playing an instrument doesn't take skill and I can't compare playing an instrument to using a program by itself, I am only arguing that using programs to make good and unique patterns does infact require skill.

>>11184878
This retard is not me (>>11184890)
Vaporwave is repetitive trash that doesn't say anything musically interesting. Its only good artist (OPN) is good precisely because he is the least vaporwave. The music is shallow, repetitive, aesthetically infantile and cheap. It's the internet equivalent of trap music, it doesn't have any reeding quality and wanting to see any deeper political meaning in it is the equivalent of mistaking Black Panther for a powerful work of social commentary.

Is this art?

>>11185048
>There is no good music post 1900
You're actually fucking retarted, stop posting

>>11185070
>You are deciding what is and isn't good music from a subjective standpoint
Yes, because unlike you I have a strong sense of Self and good taste
> Sounds from programs use recorded sounds from instruments still they aren't all electronically produced
they are by definition all electronically reproduced
> Not in real time like playing an instrument but it does take more skill because the number of sounds
No it absolutely does not take more skill than learning violin or piano or learning to compose a symphony out of existing real world instruments. You're just saying something that isn't true. Taking colors on a graphic design suite and throwing them together to make DOPE 3-d art isn't as cognitively high load as oil painting.

>>11185089
Does art require meaning? If not yes.

>>11185095
See
>>11185085
Programs use recorded sounds from instruments I don't see your point here, saying you have good taste isn't an argument you just look like a retard. I didn't even say I like vaporwave.

>>11176454
That's more a hell most gen z kids with double digit IQs find themselves in. Nothing special at all

>>11185095
>reproduction difficulty matters when judging art
Imagine actually being this clueless.

>>11185094
there is no good music post-1900. Rap, rock, electronic, disco, Jazz are degneerate garbage. If you train your ear you can hear the low iq people that composed almost all music
>Programs use recorded sounds from instruments
Yes, usually simplistic riffs from a few instruments (never as many as a classical composer, nor with as many moving parts, nor as many layers, nor is there as much time or mathematical structure to the piece) and they themselves, the "mixer" can't play any of the instruments. Someone like Bach who could play a large number of the instruments he composed pieces for had to hear the music in his head, compose it using mathematical logic and then play the piece for himself and then train others to do this. No one could hear the piece until it was mastered by a performer. So both the comoposer and the performer had to spend years honing a second set of ears to simluate the scope of possible sound that could emanate from a series of instruments in a series of registers. Which means there is more skill involved. Just one flute player from the London Philharmonic is more skilled than ten Ambient or Synthwave composers even a fucking hack like Tchaikovsky or Schoenberg is more talented than someone like Brian Eno or Macintosh Plus or Devo or Muslimgauze or anything like that shit

>>11176347
Hah... I think you're referring to me. I don't think Vaporwave was trying to mock mall capitalism, in fact it was actually kind of fetishising it. I think the biggest emotion conveyed by it is like nostalgia and longing.

>>11185107
it matters because low friction activities tend to produce artless fruits.

the IQ difference between a "dj" or a "mixer" or a "producer of beats" and someone who writes classical is staggering. If you understood the difficulty in writing even a short piece for one instrument you'd understand. Its something that will never be imitated again because of falling g

>>11185137
I totally agree with you, but at the same time I listen to modern music because I don't want to feel like totally out of fucking synch.

Life sucks like that.

>>11185137
>Rap, rock, electronic, disco, Jazz are degneerate garbage.
Trash opinion. The fact that you only mention popular music tells me your IQ is too low to explore the art music of the period. You're a stupid faggot and anyone with discernment would laugh at your clueless stupidity had you told them this IRL. Now stop posting before you end up embarrassing yourself even further, cretin.

>>11185145
Out of sync with what? Why listen to garbage when you can listen to the sublime instead?

>>11185137
>Using iq as an argument

I need good electronic music, but shit that isn't too optimistic about itself. Basically as far away from EDM as possible
Zeit from TD and Vangelis is kind of the mood I'm aiming for. Do you guys have anything?

>>11185156
there is nothing outside of those categories at all unless you meant folk which is degenerate and always has been
>You're a stupid faggot and anyone with discernment would laugh at your clueless stupidity had you told them this IRL
I've told my friends that I think rap and rock are for faggots and that electronic is vapid, Jazz is nigger music
>cretin
>>>/r/eddit or just >>>/out/
>>11185160
there is nothing sublime, its all really awful. I've heard niche artists from every genre and they're all swimming in the wake of 150 iq geniuses who wrote music so they didn't go insane. There is nothing at all. Its garbage from top to bottom. Painfully simple trash for shallow people with low iq's, that's it. There is nothing. Pop is MKULTRA, Rock is MKULTRA, Rap is niggerification and MKULTRA, electronic is degenerate machining of the human soul, Jazz is nigger music for apes

Ironically metal of all categories, still garbage, has the best lyrics of any genre. I think some hip hop artists can be WOKKKKKE but its just awful all the same. They lack the verbal iq to articulate their wokeness and the producers are not intelligent so the instrumentals are boring indulgent nonsense. The best J Dilla beat is trash compared to just some little piece by Dabussy

>>11185187
>there is nothing outside of those categories at all unless you meant folk which is degenerate and always has been
I can confirm my diagnosis of you being too low IQ to even approach the art music of that period.
>I've told my friends that I think rap and rock are for faggots and that electronic is vapid, Jazz is nigger music
I can imagine the scene a bunch of deformed apes doing strange verses with each other
>mkultra mkultra nigger nigger mkultra nigger
why do I even waste time trying to communicate with you monkeys?

>>11185137
Skill does not equal capacity to artistically articulate emotions. I geniunely pity you if you think technical skill is the sole merit of art.

>>11185210
>artistically articulate
bad
>emotions
the more complex a piece the more subtle the internal experience. the issue is that the public are slave animals who aren’t biologically capable of invoking higher states so they don’t care about classical and are perfectly content with lower levels of consciousness induced by jazz or by rock music. there’s nothing else to tell you: the effort to learn a skill almost always correlates with its benefit.

>>11185187
post age and occupation

>>11185232
I'm going to tell you something you need to hear but you're likely not going to listen to or anyone else is going to bother trying to get in to your head.

The way you are living life is artless, by making sweeping generalizations you remind me of my youth so I can sort of empathize but the world is not black and white, neither are people. Sure most people are content with going to clubs, getting pissed and fucking strangers. This does not mean they are swine before pearls, it means they need educating what the pearls are in the first place. You remind me of a mathematician friend I once knew who was so up his own ass that he tried to outwit everyone, when in fact he was only really outwitting himself. Come down to reality, smell the roses, I don't know why I fucking bother but you have to understand, your mind is so closed that you've convinced yourself it's open. Unironically, wake up, people make art for a reason, not everyone has access to the fucking Philharmonic.

>>11185257
go away CIA
>>11185279
didn’t read lol at you fag please go baq we don’t need for mchumans on 4chan

>>11185284
Alright, I'll keep shitposting and you keep eagerly refreshing this thread, I won't tell anyone in case
I ruin your street cred I promise.

>>11185232
>the more complex a piece the more subtle the internal experience
Is this what peak retardation looks like?

I would like to keep this thread alive so that more people may have the opportunity of basking in the intelligence of this man. Bravo.

I don't have any conscious reasoning for it but it sounds right for some reason

Please do not encourage him

>>11185089
pretty facist

>>11182360
>tries to shut down interesting discussion
>posts entry level classics without commenting about them and thinks we're meant to be impressed
They are popular because people overanalyzed the shit out of them at their inception. You would have been bitching about Dante in his time and lamenting Homer's dwindling readership.

>>11177091
On a sub-conscious level you might be. Have you ever taken one of those tests that show your inclination towards authoritarianism?

That's what I was arguing is that the whole aesthetic of vapor is fascist, not necessarily intentionally. If an art movement serves to empower and inspire another political movement, even if the initial creators were not at all so inclined, I would say the art work still belongs in that political spectrum. Art takes on a life of its own after it's creation.

>>11185160
Music is super social, but you're right

>>11184855
It used to be, and it was only to dupe the working class. Fascists are not actually anti-capitalist.

>vaporwave
>anything but slowed down 80s music

>>11187278
That's not true at all, it's a pretty common talking point and I think it boils down to a kind of purity spiral of the economic left.

>>11176347
It's an aesthetic. There's nothing to it. It can be fascist or communist or something in between depending on the artist's intention, but I would say that it can't really be either because it's purpose is to evoke nostalgia. Nostalgia is a feeling that brings comfort and comfort is hardly expedient in a political sense. Fascists, Communists, and every ideology in between relies on anxiety which is something that vaporwave aims to undo. It's not about feeling ashamed that you aren't living up to the standards of the past or a reminder of the world's injustices, it is a journey among the ruins of what once was.

fashbois embracing vaporwave always struck me as a yearning for a time without internet and social media (i.e. unrestricted glimpses into the minds of all people all of the time)

i wonder if/how the collapse of the soviet union plays into all this. it should after all have been the crowning achievement of the 1980s, which provided an outward image of consolidation after the ugliness, chaos and upheaval of the '70s. instead the new decade was the start of another, mongrelized plainness, the true global village. not to be underestimated

>>11187278
>an ideology that wants a syndicate-run economy, i. e. worker’s self-management, isn’t anti-capitalist
But, in all honesty, fascism has various subsets, and early fascism (sansepolcrismo) was highly influenced by national-syndicalism, just like falangism and JONSism and so on.