/lit/ - Literature

>>11172532
So I'm typically more right wing but I am not sure I entirely understand this concept. Is cultural Marxism essentially agreeing with Marx about things like the relationships across classes but not advocating for Marxist solutions?

>>11172532
cultural marxism doesn't exist, all leftist is basically a corrosive force that eats everything of value, it's the equivalent of entropy in physics

>>11172532
saying "cultural marxism" is like saying "economic feminism"

>>11172546
It's critical theory and gramsci.

Basically a bunch of excuses the left invented during the last century when all of their "scientific socialism" predictions failed

Now society has degraded for several reasons and it's a nice boogieman to point to, but society would have degraded either way as things have developed from what protestantism and the "enlightenment" entailed

hopefully a new Promethean flame will be lighted at some point and we'll see a new golden age, but probably not, either way, enjoy the ride, be diligent, and become worthy

>>11172532
It's a non academic term that has nothing to do with actual Marxism which barely exists now as an opposing ideology. When Molyneux and Peterson misuse the term Marxist I lose a bit of respect for them as it sounds nonacademic imho. They forget that the cold war is over and that the basic tenets of what they define as cultural marxism (multiculturalism, lgbt rights, feminism, mass immigration) barely existed in the Soviet Union and is laughed at as the white left in China.

Cultural Marxism and Neoliberalism are both unhelpful terms. As soon as you say them, the other side gets all defensive, possibly rightfully because you are trying to attribute all sorts of stuff at once while using a term with multiple perceived definitions. Just talk in terms of specifics and substance and leave your all encompassing critiques for your verso book that nobody will read.

>>11172569
It's the equivalent of calling a conservative trump supporter a fascist nazi. The dichotomy of right vs left should be abandoned while truth vs falsehood, what objectively works and what doesn't in economics and whatnot should be encouraged.

>>11172580
While I agree in principle, part of human nature is categorizing things, including people. I am not saying this is good, but I am not convinced it is avoidable.

>>11172587
Shut up fascist

>There are people on this board who claim to be intellectuals while NOT being marxists

>>11172594
>tfw too stupid to subscribe to a failed, discredited ideology

>>11172593
Got me. I'll show myself back to /pol/

>>11172593
The fascists of the future will be the anti-fascists.
-Winston Churchill

>>11172580
At least left vs right implies subjective value judgements and temperaments across the board. Of course everyone considers themselves to possess the truth, but when non-Inner Party members start describing some "idea x" or "strategy y" or "moral z" in rhetorical terms like "true" and "what objectively works" you create a koolaid hellzone.

>>11172532
>/lit/ - Politics
Namedropping two books does not make your thread about literature.

>>11172569
Now, the left never claimed to be "cultural marxists", but right wingers created, promoted and willfully adopted the term neoliberal. Just because it pretty much kickstarted the extinction of the human race they don't have the right so dissociate themselves from the term now.

>>11172662
>Neo *liberal*
>Right wing
They're not even leftists they're liberals my dude

>>11172672
What is this post attempting to say............

>>11172566
>multiculturalism barely existed in the Soviet Union
Do you have any idea how many ethnic groups there were in USSR, many of which still exist in present-day Russia?

>>11172532
>cultural
>Marxism
this is oxymoron and everyone who has at least a glimpse of understanding of Marxism should know it.

now stop using words you don't know

>>11172566
>Non academic
It was an academic term until your overlords at google and wikipedia decided to purge it from the internet

>>11172532
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCWdA5XhGmY

>>11172690
To be fair, in the 20th century many writers in the Marxian tradition extended, even shifted their focus to culture.
>>11172691
As far as I know, its earliest usages are from polemical paleoconservative and nuhtzee literature.

>>11172686

>>11172676
The term left wing not only means marxists whether marxists like it or not.
>>11172690
Marxists really love criticizing culture and lecturing about what is "correct culture" though.

>>11172676
Neo liberals are not right wing, they are not left wing, they are liberals. Rightists never adopted neo-liberalism

>>11172712
multiculturalism is defined as ethnic and cultural pluralism, and Russia is a good example of it. Don’t think it’s some western uniqueness and pretend that other countries have no idea what USA has to deal with. America is just bad at cultural reforms.

>>11172546
Cultural Marxism is a conspiracy theory stating Jews are fighting a clandestine war on western culture.

>>11172727
>and Russia is a good example of it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_siege

>>11172735
...No. It's not. Stop reading /pol/ memes

>>11172735
No you don't understand. Jews, who my infographs show to own every company and run every government in the world, and that despite that are all secretly communists, want to destroy western civlisation and replace westerners with arabs, because arabs are easier to control, even though the entirety of the west is allied with Israel and most arabs hate their guts

It's all so perfectly logical, don't you see?

>>11172712
left pic is colonialism, not internationalism

>>11172698
>many writers in the Marxian tradition extended, even shifted their focus to culture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunism

>>11172761
>My info graph
Why does no one bother to read and critique the stats /pol/ posts at least?

>>11172792
yes, the left has not principles, just tactics

>>11172799
Experience

hot something that claims this
>According to Karl Marx, human beings enter into certain productive, or economic, relations and these relations lead to a form of social consciousness.
>It is not the consciousness of men that determines their being, but, on the contrary, their social being that determines their consciousness.
can be a "cultural", if culture is just a product of economic relationships.

if anything, current cultural trends is direct consequences of economic relationships.

>>11172563
You do realize Gramsci is a person's name, right? It's not shorthand for something.

>>11172919
yes, using proper capitalization is not required in the chans. i'm not english though, does the sentence sound weird?

The left is just desperate to defend their figures in academia because its the source of their power. Any term that calls them out !ust be neutralized

>>11172813
this

>>11172566
>if the current establishment don't approve of a term then you dumbo

only absolute retards deny cultural marxism as a fact their arguments usually boil down to "it's not the correct terminology" the point is that it exists and it stems from marxists who didn't like the way 20th century regimes turned out

>>11172965
The Cold War is over senpai. There is no government tat strives to push cultural marxism. There are no self avowed cultural marxists, and the people who self identify as marxists have no backing to make it a dominant force. Islamic fundamentalism is a different story, and even that can be simply solved by having a merit based immigration policy and letting Israel fight it own wars.

>>11172980
Racial and gender egalitarianism and mass immigration is not cultural marxism, it's just falsehoods that don't work. As for the economic side of things, centralized planning is closer to marxism and that is another facet that doesn't work. No need to go all stereotypical and hiding from the reds.

>>11172999
> There is no government tat strives to push cultural Marxism
Who says there has to be? Governments are however pushing policies, of multiculturalism, feminism and homosexuality.

>There are no self avowed cultural Marxists
>what is antifa
>what are neomarxists
>what are feminists
>what is multiculturalism
>what is frankfurt school

Oh but they're not called "cultural Marxists", again an argument of semantics.

>and the people who self identify as Marxists have no backing to make it a dominant force
The academia, media and the culture at large is dominated by cultural Marxism. It doesn't matter if they can make a move, even if they could they probably couldn't do anything. The problem is the policies they promote.

>Islamic fundamentalism is a different story, and even that can be simply solved by having a merit based immigration policy
Thats a result of cultural Marxism, I mean are you completely oblivious to the current political and cultural climate?


>letting Israel fight it own wars
A problem due to the necon consumerists (who were also founded by marxists)

>>11173019
They absolutely are, the new left/neomarxists focused more on these civil rights then the economics of original Marxist though, identity politics is child of neomarxist thought. The economics are totally dominated by consumerist capitalism, which strangely creates this hybrid of cultural Marxism and consumerist culture.

>>11172532
Why do these threads always and up with cultural Marxist deniers getting BTFO but /lit/ still denies it existing?

>>11172532
cultural marxism is a made up word by consevativea to describe things they dont like

>>11172532
People feeding buzzword troll
>on my /lit/
>at this time of year
>localized entirely within this thread

>tfw the dominant culture is marxist and everything is marxism but global capital is still winning

>>11172735
Due to Christian and Islamic prohibitions against ursury and discrimination against Jews Jews were forced into the money lending and gold smithing.
Consequently a lot of secular Jews became rich bankers in the modern era.
After WWII and the tensions that led up to it a lot of Jews were pushed into paranoid extremism and became Communist moral crusaders.
Now there a bunch of rich secular Jewish bankers who are paranoid extremist moral crusaders.
Unfortunately there is really no evil like a moral crusader.

The popular /pol/ meme of a happy merchant is completely wrong though as most religious Jews tend to be kind of poor.
Such religious Jews may be cheap-skates, racist and kind of cuntish but that specific demographic is not manipulating stuff behind the scenes or anything.

>>11173154
Was Hitler right though?

>>11173059
>>11173101
So how is calling people marxists who aren't really marxists different from antifa calling Trump supporters nazi fascists?

>>11173141
This honestly. It's a conglomerate of a large centralized government and international big businesses that fuel what people label "cultural marxism." Feminism caused by big government handouts (who want votes) which enables cheap labor in the form of mass immigration who aren't self sufficient so vote for more government expansion. Self determination of nations (nationalism) make it tougher for the corporations and government to accomplish this so it's shamed as bigotry and close mindedness.

>>11173176
>So how is calling people marxists who aren't really marxists different from antifa calling Trump supporters nazi fascists?
Because they are Marxists, it stems from Marxist doctrine and was founded by Marxists. Don't know why this is so hard to understand.

>>11173125
Elitism, recently PolSci has become a occult science because of Bannon, practitioners believe they're wielding a arcane force and want to keep it out of the hands of the rabble, the easiest way to accomplish that is attacking any efforts to identity and explain practices.

>>11173171
National Socialism is just another slave morality. It is good and honorable to rape and murder your own volk or even your own wife and kids.

>>11173141
Do self-identified Socialists ever doubt the devil's bargain they made with ultra-capitalist?

>>11173125
It's ultimately because the denial amounts to little more than academic semantics that matter very little outside of academia.

The alt-right and MAGApedes are the real Gramscians, which is very ironic to say the least.

>>11173290
I'm curious about this, explain. I don't know squat diddly shit about Gramsci.

>>11173289
Considering their policies are actively supported by Western governments and are going to create a clash of civilizations, I doubt their problems are limited to academia.

>>11173300
Gramsci went against Marx's base/superstructure dialectic and argued that all political change follows cultural change.

"Politics is downstream from culture" is a slogan that the alt-right likes repeating, and it ironically sounds like something from Gramsci's prison notebooks.

>>11173290
I've been wondering about this, has /pol/ ever realize they're post-modernists? they aren't even subtle about it, they blatantly organize efforts to subvert, pluralise and condition things.

>>11173333
Nope.

Peterson hasn't realized it either. He decries postmodernism while being a Nietzschean that claims "there are many types of truth." It boggles the mind.

>>11172813
>It is not the consciousness of men that determines their being, but, on the contrary, their social being that determines their consciousness.
so this is why they're so obsessed about blank slate being true

>>11172532
>Marxism is based on a dialectical materialist conception of history and argued collective ownership of the means of production could resolve the contradictions in the capitalist mode of production. Disparages moralizing without theory
>Postmodernists tend to reject dialectical materialism, and argue for egalitarian policy on ethical grounds.
"Cultural Marxism" is literally just "everyone I don't like is secretly following the Boogeyman from muh cold war propaganda"
Get over yourself, these are two disparate groups with differing theories, priorities and methodologies. They are not inextricably linked just because they both think you (or whoever you're parroting any given day) are a moron.

I'll just leave this here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlrpSpwxgWw

>>11173333
Bannon realizes it imo

>>11173341
The irony is that as I'm reading Delillo, who's labeled as postmodern by numerous critics, his books seem more conservative leaning than /pol/.

>>11173347
It's just a continuation of the "cultural bolshevisim" meme that the Nazis started.

>>11173352
Bannon is a Post-Crypto-Stalinist.

>>11173333
>>11173341
/pol/ talks about how they are the Jews and acknowledges the postmodernism of the "meme magic" all the time.

>>11173341
>>11173387
It must be frustrating for leftists, every time they've tried implementing theses pomo theories it has backfired catastrophically yet when the religious right attempt them it leads to success.

>>11173399
>it leads to success

In what sense? Trump is their idea of success? Yikes. He's literally just like every neoliberal before him except he shitposts on Twitter too.

>>11173387
meme magic is synchronicity
nothing to do with modernism or post-modernism

>>11173409
psychoanalysis is modernism

>>11172606
Gonna need a citation bro

Cultural Marxism works toward the Hegelian truth. In no way could it be a bad thing

>>11172566
Communism is still the specter haunting the world

>>11172597
How does an ideology fail?

>>11172606
>People who don't advocate X are X

>>11173351
You can do the same with Marxists and "Class"

>>11172546
Cultural Marxism (which is a boogeyman of a word, but I'll entertain it for now) agrees with the basic tenets of marxism insofar as it perceives history as a series of power struggles. Where they divert is due to identity politics: Marx thought it best to define the base class as a homogenous, unified proletariat in order to make radical mobilisation much more efficient and effective, because the minute you start dividing it according to gender, sexuality, race, religion, etc. you engender a conflict of interest that weakens the ability of the proletariat to mobilise, and stops people working together in order to revolt against capitalism.

>>11173541
>still a specter
>china's "marxism" is state capitalism leaning towards free capitalism but doesn't want to leave the marxist label
>communism is left in failing countries like vietnam and cuba that can't do shit
>communist groups are limited to cringy larpers and small militias and are both a laughable bunch

>>11172761
>it’s an intentionally misrepresent people I disagree with episode

>there are people on this board who think that cultural hegemony doesn't exist just because they have a fiery hatred for Leftists

Imagine hating rightists so much that you denied family structure even existed. That's how stupid you are. Like really, if you're going to deny the influence of the Authoritarian Personality or Dialectic of Enlightenment on current conservative discourse then you're just as biased as Jordan Peterson

>>11173607
It will never stop until capital is in the hands of the proletariat.

>>11172532
All of you dumb fucks, just report the OP and move on.

>>11173624
>Imagine hating rightists so much that you denied family structure even existed. That's how stupid you are. Like really, if you're going to deny the influence of the Authoritarian Personality or Dialectic of Enlightenment on current conservative discourse then you're just as biased as Jordan Peterson
This is even counter productive to their objetive. Denying reality wont make it easier for you to change it as you wish. Imagine if Putin or some other people of power denyed their reality just because they felty it wasen't what they wanted, so they will just ignore it.
Jesus, thats why the Left is dying today

>>11173566
Class is real

>>11173607
You have no idea what you're talking about because you've been given a series of buzzwords to metabolize. Stop being idealist, start looking at the real material reality of societies, their programmes, and trajectories.

>>11173560
You know Trump didn't advocate fascism either, right?
>>11173630
>History is linear
I fucking hate Hegel so much.

>>11173653
>Imagine if Putin or some other people of power denyed their reality just because they felty it wasen't what they wanted, so they will just ignore it.
lol that's what he's doing and it's working
russia is a poor shithole but he's fillign everyone's head with the idea that it's actually a machiavellian geopolitical expert megastate and it's working
belief = power

>>11173101
>The economics are totally dominated by consumerist capitalism, which strangely creates this hybrid of cultural Marxism and consumerist culture.
it's not strange at all since capitalism needs new consumers to grow and by segregating minorities you lose potential buyers. this is why cultural marxism is just a buzzword. globalization and idpol is 100% capitalism

>>11172580

>>11172532
Of course Adorno is barely even influential in humanities departments these days. Get with the times.

Nobody denies that the Frankfurt School was influential, but it's retarded to think that they are running Western society.

>>11173673
>that out of context screenshot
/leftypol/ has officially reached full /pol/ status

>>11172686
Russia was multicultural from its very beginnings. This is a completely different phenomenon from Western societies multiculturalism which exists because of immigration. There was no such thing as mass immigration to the Soviet Union which started to change its culture from the inside, which is what is happening in the West nowadays. The Soviet Union was also an incredible powerful state able to introduce changes from "above" whether the population liked it or not, which is something cuck, anemic Western democracies can't do. This is why modern China is so stable in a world of economical instability, because the state has way more control over the economy than in Western countries, despite what all the "muh Chinese capitalism" memes would have you believe.

>>11173720
>another half of /pol/ is just like /pol/
Imagine my shock

>>11173737
they've started emulating each others' tactics now
amazing

>>11173680
You haven't read Hegel because he didn't claim history was linear

>>11172532
Contradiction in terms. Marx was overtly racist and frequently asserted that class and only class can be relevant to a political struggle. Post-Marxists deny this, but also deny several other aspects of Marx's work, to the extent that it's not really fair to call them Marxists at all. Postmodern thinkers like Derrida are even further away from Marx, arguing that the mere notion of class doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Stop posting boogeymen.

>>11173713
>thinking for yourself and not belonging to an ideological box is bad

>>11173758
yes he did.

>tfw never get to live in the days when rex stout, a detective fiction writer and ardent socialist, would get off from the unamerican activities committee scott free for explaining to senator dies that he was not a communist and hated communists as much as the senator, and perhaps more than the senator, since stout knew what the word meant and the senator clearly did not
>tfw never get to take stout out for lunch after and have to use a large reference dictionary after the second gin to keep up
>tfw stuck with autists who's last book was one of the GoT ones
i miss communism

>>11173885
It's truly laughable that you think talking about "objective truth" and "what really works" is an original thought of you, buddy. You're spewing the same old tired rightist motto of "it's economics, IDIOT" without even realizing it. Sie wissen das nicht, aber sie tun es.