/lit/ - Literature

He was kind of chad when he was younger so I find it hard to relate.

>>11116945
literally me with Augustine

>>11116939
Starting City of God by Augustine
It's long

>>11116945
>>11116957
I was a chad and now my Saint name is Augustine of Hippo

>>11116939
I'm feeling lonely lately, kinda disappointed with the world and with people, what should I do ?

sorry non-French but translations exist

>>11117013
Same but I'm not a Catholic, books for this feel?

>>11116945
>>11116972
I kind of felt this way too, but then I realised that the important thing was that they used to be chads, it's that they completely turned their back on those lifestyles.

To them, the lifestyle that every depressed 4chan kid dreams about - lots of girls, popularity, having cool friends - means nothing. Nothing at all. It's like dust in the wind; totally ephemeral and disappointing.

In that sense, we can relate to them more than any regular chad ever could. Sure, we might not get to experience the "highs" of chad life first hand, but that's kind of just like saying we probably won't get to know what battling lung cancer feels like first hand. It's nothing to be upset about.

>>11118108
was NOT that they used to be chads**

>>11117013
>>11118031
I think everyone can benefit from reading books by or about the saints, regardless of faith.

>>11118154
Such as? More interested in the ethics, philosophy, and history elements myself.

I am the dragon of revelation ask me anything

>>11118472
how'd the baby taste

>>11118504

I don't actually understand Christian apocalyptic symbolism, I just assume it relates to me because I'm schizophrenic.

This will also be my answer to any other question that requires knowledge.

>>11118459
For history, The Golden Legend by Jacobus de Voragine is a great book on the lives of many Saints.

Otherwise, these are popular and accessible books that loosely fit into what you're looking for or have benefited me in some way:
>The Story of a Soul by Saint Therese of Lisieux
>Interior Castles by Saint Teresa of Avila
>Dark Night of the Soul by Saint John of the Cross
>True Devotion to Mary by Saint Louis de Montfort

and of course Augustine and Aquinas are worth reading.

>>11118524
Thank you based christposter.
Anyone here have any recommendations for works on distributivism and solidarism? I haven't had much luck at generating interest on here lately.

>>11116939
Saint Francis de Sales is my Confirmation saint. I have read his "Introduction to the Devout Life," and it's very good. Now that classes are winding down, I'm going to start in on his pamphlet on the Sign of the Cross.

>>11116939
Currently reading Seven Storey Mountain by Thomas Merton
I'm not sure what I'll read after this. I'm thinking either The Screwtape Letters by C.S Lewis or The Dark Night of the Soul by Saint John of the Cross.
>>11116962
Whats it like? I've heard some people say it's quite high end and not beginner-friendly

>>11118524
>>Interior Castles by Saint Teresa of Avila
couldn't get through it the first time, i'll try again soon

>>Dark Night of the Soul by Saint John of the Cross
is it good? i've only read the poem, but not the book where he elaborates

also any other church approved meditation guides like pic related? i guess in the catholic context it would be called Via negativa prayer? not sure

>>11118940
>also any other church approved meditation guides like pic related?
Into the Silent Land by Martin Laird

>>11116939
The Imitation of Christ is A+.

>>11116939

Bump

>>11117058
ca va onto ?

>>11118108
Kind of like the Buddha who was basically as chad as you can get and lived like a warrior prince full of hot desi desu sluts and all the drugs he could want and decided to become a beggar monk.

>>11118663
>Whats it like? I've heard some people say it's quite high end and not beginner-friendly
It's not really, but if you have a decent knowledge of the Bible, early Church and Roman history it shouldn't be too hard. It can basically be divided into a first part, which addresses criticisms of Christianity by Roman pagans and neoplatonists and a second (and more famous) part which traces the City of God and City of Man through the Biblical narrative. It has a lot of interesting imagery and descriptions, but it is indeed long. A lot of people only read the second part.

Merton struck me as a try hard bourgeoisie. Seems like an ok guy, but he did not convert me. I did enjoy john of the cross, and hildegard of bingen. Any other more recent authors worth reading?

I really, really want to be Catholic sometimes and I come from a lapsed Catholic family but I just can't handle the dogmatism, and I don't get enough comfort from the ceremony to be like all the other Catholic people I know, who genuinely have their minds quieted by the sacraments and the communal aspect. I just sit there feeling more isolated, even though I do appreciate the community.

I was talking to my friend recently about my Christianity and how weird it is. I ended up articulating to myself, while trying to articulate it to him, what my main difficulty is. Discovering Christianity gave me a lot of purpose because it gave me a duty, to put myself in the service of something good. But it didn't give me any comfort whatsoever. Duty can give you comfort when you're looking for a reason to keep going through the "slings and arrows," so it's obviously a kind of comfort too, but it is more like a stoic commitment than a feeling or warmth/love for me almost always.

I do wish I could feel comforted by religion sometimes.

>>11120862
I know this feel all too well.

>>11120862
Sounds like you need Holy Mother Mary. She tends to embody the warmer, more comforting side of Catholicism. You might start by praying the Rosary.

I'm reading Justin Martyr's Dialogue With Trypho. I get the impression it's so long because he thought it was a comprehensive slam dunk against judaism, but he keeps getting stuff wrong and it just makes him look like a buffoon.

>>11120862
>and I don't get enough comfort from the ceremony to be like all the other Catholic people I know
Are you visiting only Novus Ordo parishes? Have you tried attending a Tridentine Latin Mass? Maybe there’s an FSSP branch in your area?

>>11121165
The only slam dunk necessary against Judaism is the Resurrection.

>>11121195
it didn’t happen

>>11120862

I do not seek comfort, i seek the highest value and see it personified in one man.

comfort others

>>11120862
become Orthodox?

>>11121222
Keep telling yourself that.

>>11121397
>I just can't handle the dogmatism
>become Orthodox
???

>>11121614
The Orthodox are more willing to concede when something is simply a mystery instead of trying to explain everything.

This is pretty good, includes a story by Gene Wolfe. I also recommend reading Lattimore's translation of the NT.

>Merton was a keen proponent of interfaith understanding. He pioneered dialogue with prominent Asian spiritual figures, including the Dalai Lama, the Japanese writer D. T. Suzuki, the Thai Buddhist monk Buddhadasa, and the Vietnamese monk Thich Nhat Hanh, and authored books on Zen Buddhism and Taoism. In the years since his death, Merton has been the subject of several biographies.

Heretic.

>>11122407
>An ordained Priest
>Trappist Brother

Still achieved more in life than you faggot

>>11122490
He is right, though, that you can't simply take Merton whole. You need to read him carefully and be aware of his weaknesses.

>>11122407
>best not to engage in any other faiths, just denounce them

you're doing God's work. keep it up, the world will be secular in no time.

>>11122556
Engagement is all well and good, but the end goal of Catholicism is to "make disciples of all the nations." There is ultimately no room in the world for any other religion besides Christianity, because all other religions are false.

If those who lead you say, 'See, the Kingdom is
in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they
say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and
you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living
Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty
and it is you who are that poverty.

Reading group when?

>>11120862

No joke try Orthodoxy. It has the mysticism you're craving and less legalistic dogmatism.

Orthodoxy asks you to constantly deify yourself and bask in the love and mercy of God rather than adhere to a series of laws and focus on human depravity.

>>11120596
shieet

>>11120862
This anon >>11121252 is more or less correct. For the Christian, comfort can only be found in God's consolations, which can only be gained by dying to self. Realise that comfort is a rare thing (for anyone, not just Christians) and so cherish even more deeply when it does come around.

Also, going to a more traditional church might help, as >>11121176 suggests. But I have heard many negative things about the trad-cath movement, that they tend to be very cruel people. So maybe don't go as intense as FSSP, but find a Dominican-run church?

No mention of JF Powers?

what do you guys think about using aquinas in the modern day?
did kant really blow him out of the water?

>>11116939
Flannery O’Conner the rest of the books were written by pedos.

>>11120862
It's not supposed to be comforting. It's the Truth. Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus.

Heyyy just want to point out that beasts are referenced as nations several times in the Bible. Directly interpreted visions and whatnot about the Romans. Any good Revelations-based dialogue fro Catholic standpoints?

>>11124150
There's an article about it on New Advent but I think it might just say that only God will know when the world ends so it's useless to try to predict things from Revelations.

>>11116945
>>11116957
Literally me with 80% of modern literature. I can't read Gravity's Rainbow cos all the fucking makes me sad.

>>11120862
I fail to see an issue here. You don't follow because it's comfortable, you follow because it's right. Comfort comes from knowing that you're right. If you don't think Christianity is right why would you want to be a Christian? If you're unsure study further.

>>11116945
Once you sincerely embrace volcel you become the spiritual Chad and look down on these people with mingled pity and disgust.

>>11122707
Never hopefully, can't wait for the day Hegelian Catholicism is just a memory.

>>11121614
If by dogmatism you mean legalism then, yes, Orthodoxy is for you. If you can't stand not being the authority of your life try Stirner or some other meme crap.

>>11116939
Merton is questionably Catholic.
He started incorporating Eastern philosophies into his work and was involved in a questionable relationship with a woman.
He died an unholy death.

>>11125813
how does one unholy die and where is it forbidden to incorporate eastern philosophies ?

>>11117013
listen to country music and drink beer

works for me

whats the line between worship and ‘devotion’ or ‘mediation’. youre only supposed to pray to god...you know this right? im actually asking

>>11126586
We believe that the Saints - being in heaven - are in a better position to take our prayers and pass them on to God, while also making the prayers more perfect. As I understand it, devotion just means a repetition of prayer asking for intercession from a particular Saint or even prayers to the Lord, e.g., litanies. Meditation is just introspective prayer and can cover many things.

What's your guys' daily prayer schedule look like? What's your prayer of choice?

>>11127033

Book of Common Prayer daily office every morning if possible. Orthodox Great Litany sung, chanted or said out loud sometime in the afternoon. Our Father or spoken compline for evening (I rarely get to do this one).

>>11127033
I say the Rosary every day, as Our Lady of Fatima requested. I also pray every night before going to bed. Additionally, I pray frequently throughout the day for various reasons: whether I'm in need of something, whether I need some strengthening of the spirit, or whether I need to thank God for some gift he's given me.

Best Catholic writers...

Poet: Dante
Playwright: Shakespeare
Novelist: Cervantes
Philosopher: Aquinas

Anyone else I'm missing? Anyone disputing this list? Who is the greatest French writer with a strong Catholic influence? I love French literature, but most of their greatest poets and novelists aren't overtly Catholic in my opinion (same for England for that matter).

>>11116939
OP, I read Brideshead Revisited by Evelyn Waugh and loved it. Also, Joseph Pearce's biography on Shakespeare as a devout Catholic involved with subversive activity was fascinating and convincing. I wholly recommend it.

>>11127033
Morning upon waking up: Rosary, followed by prayers based on Blessed Cardinal Newman's writings

Daytime: Prayers for travel and grace for food.

Evening: Examination of conscience and an Act of Contrition composed by Blessed Cardinal Newman.

I feel as if I am in need of another great prayer to do in the afternoon. Perhaps I should pray the Divine Mercy at 3pm?

>>11127077
>>11127104
Very neat. Thanks for sharing.

Mine:

Morning
>read the daily gospel
>catholic meditation on the daily gospel
>notre père (en français because I'm studying it)
>prayer to our mother of perpetual help

Before first drive of the day
>prayer to Saint Christopher

Before meals
>Bless us, O Lord and these Thy gifts, which we are about to receive from Thy bounty Through Christ Our Lord. Amen.

Midday
>read daily acts of the apostles and daily psalms

Before writing
>O Creator of the universe, who has set the stars in the heavens and causes the sun to rise and set, shed the light of your wisdom into the darkness of my mind. Fill my thoughts with the loving knowledge of you, that I may bring your light to others. Just as you can make even babies speak your truth, instruct my tongue and guide my pen to convey the wonderful glory of the Gospel. Make my intellect sharp, my memory clear, and my words eloquent, so that I may faithfully interpret the mysteries which you have revealed.

Before bed
>reflection on the day's events
>chaplet of divine mercy
>notre père encore

>>11127252
>>11127077

I forgot to add that I use the Jesus Prayer throughout the day. The Orthodox believe it to be the most powerful prayer in all of prayer and I tend to agree. Use it with the help of a spiritual director (best if its a priest).

I've learned it in english, koine greek and church slavonic and it's incredibly powerful. Just be careful with it. I can't stress that enough, my vicar keeps me in check.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Prayer

>>11127387
>church slavonic
How'd you learn it? It sounds absolutely gorgeous, that language. One of my favorite metal bands uses it for their songs.

>>11127407
One of my good friends is a Russian Orthodox convert and taught it to me. Byzantine Forum is a good resource:

http://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/62315/1/Jesus_Prayer_in_Church_Slavoni

Learn the alphabet and then the prayer should come easy. It's fun to learn the Jesus Prayer in tons of languages. I'm working on French and German next.

>>11127176

>Playwright: Shakespeare

Shakespeare was baptized and confirmed Church of England. So just be aware that he is Catholic (universal) and not Roman. Though in my opinion we are one big happy family, but I am a bastard CofE Anglican that's too afraid of Eastern liturgy to fully convert to Orthodoxy. (Though I recognize that the divine liturgies of basil/Chrysostom are deeper than our BCP liturgies.... it just feels too foreign at the moment)

>>11122407
>>11122506
The problem with Mystics is often mistranslation. They may not be heretics in their own understanding of the faith, but then they try to communicate the emotional and transcendental into everyday language, and it quickly errs onto the side of heresy.

I've only read the Seven Storey Mountain, and he didn't seem unorthodox at all. He consistently points out how incomplete and impoverished spiritually many forms of Protestantism are, but he is somewhat silent on the eastern religions. Maybe I just have to read his later stuff.

>>11127440
>Shakespeare baptized and confirmed Church of England

Read Joseph Pearce's biography and sources. Shakespeare had secret Masses and hid priests in his London property that used to be a Dominican monastic house.

>I am a bastard CofE Anglican that's too afraid of Eastern liturgy to fully convert to Orthodoxy.

Convert to the one holy catholic and apostolic church. The Pope revoked your apostolic succession.

>>11127501

>Joseph Pearce's biography and sources

I am familiar with Pearce's work. While interesting, it's in no way authoritative. Just about all other scholars tend to believe that Shakespeare was moderately reformed and that though he may of been compelled to remain in the English Church, he was probably not a cyrpto-romanist. I'd be curious to see where scholarship goes as things progress and then I will reassess my opinion--but right now its a shallow claim.

>The Pope revoked your apostolic succession.
Not interested in getting into a fight over this or that doctrine. If I convert it will be to Orthodoxy.

>>11127544
Have you ever wondered why Mary has never appeared to a heretic or a schismatic? If you are a so-called "catholic" Christian and deny the Marian apparitions at Fatima, Guadalupe, Lourdes, and so on, you are either being willfully obstinate in your heresy or you might as well be an Evangelical Christian.

Do NOT blaspheme the Sacred Heart of Mary. We are talking about Christ's holy Mother here. Mary desires us to be Roman Catholics; after all, she explicitly stated at Fatima that Russia be consecrated to Her Immaculate Heart so that the process may begin in their conversion to Catholicism, NOT that there be a revival of their schismatic heresy.

If you deny her apparition and requests, then you might as well deny the Catholic Church which is the only church. I tremble to imagine the fate of a sinner who willfully denies the Marian apparitions.

>>11127544
>all other scholars
secularists, jews, and heretics

>>11127634

>If you are a so-called "catholic" Christian and deny the Marian apparitions... you are either being willfully obstinate in your heresy
>Do NOT blaspheme the Sacred Heart of Mary

Mate, I believe that Mary is the Mother of God and that the Theotokos deserves respect. End of discussion, I'm not going to open a can of worms by addressing the rest of your post.

>secularists, jews, and heretics

Fantastic response

>>11127716
>can of worms
What, you don't want to admit that you doubt the Marian apparitions? That you believe they were just lies made up by the "Romanists?" I sense your doubts because you believe you owe Mary mere "respect" rather than veneration.

The Roman Catholic Church is the only coherent choice if you're one of those "high church" types. The Anglican Church doesn't actually believe in anything because it tolerates everything. It's no surprise the Anglican Church is in terminal decline because of its advocacy for gay marriage, euthanasia, abortion, and all the other signs of the culture of death. As for the Orthodox Church, yeah, they're much closer to the Roman Catholic Church, but because of their pride, they have suffered greatly under hostile ideologies and religion, such as Islam and Marxism.

Otherwise, you might as well be Lutheran, Evangelical, or one of those other heretic sects that don't believe you need to live a virtuous life to get to heaven.

>>11127808

Actually to be quite honest I meant to say veneration, I didn't check my post again before posting though.

>The Anglican Church doesn't actually believe in anything because it tolerates everything. It's no surprise the Anglican Church is in terminal decline because of its advocacy for gay marriage, euthanasia, abortion, and all the other signs of the culture of death.

You are not wrong. The Anglican Church is way too tolerant and believes in sinful things like gay marriage, abortion and so on. There are a few of us left who hold to orthodoxy and we hope to reform.

>ecause of their pride, they have suffered greatly under hostile ideologies and religion, such as Islam and Marxism.

If anything, the Orthodox experience under communism was similar to crucifixion. It's almost a beautiful symbol for the faith. It stood up against Marxism, was crucified and died to earthly sin but rose again and reigned with Christ's grace. Unfortunately for the Fatima like, Romanism will never spread to Russia and Orthodoxy will continue to thrive. All signs point to an Orthodox Renaissance.

>>11127846
>All signs point to an Orthodox Renaissance
Do they?

>>11127870

And families in the low rate countries are only 1-2 child households. Chart has no data on Catholicism in Russia. Try again

>>11127033
You guys put me to shame. All I do is an evening prayer where I praise and thank God, talk about my struggles, reflect on the struggles of the people around me and how I've failed them, ask for help, prayer for others, and close with asking for the intercession of St Dymphna and St Angela.

I recently started going to Adoration though, so hopefully that'll boost our relationship.

>>11127935

One day you may put us to shame! We are all at different points in life and in our divinization process. And meaningful prayer is more important than constant shallow prayer. You may be excelling past us with your devotion

>>11127884
There's a big difference between taking the pill, wearing a condom, or practicing good old-fashioned NFP or abstinence than actually murdering a baby in the womb. Sure, the pill and a condom are objectively evil, but they are certainly a much lesser evil than abortion. Counties with blue and/or green happen to be where devout Catholics and Muslims live. Coincidence?

I think this "experience [...] similar to crucifixion" has yet to show any fruits of resurrection.

>>11127935
It isn't really a competition, you know? Some people don't even take the time to pray. What you're doing is more than enough.

>>11127949

>fruits of resurrection.

revival of the faith is a good place to start. The wall fell less than a generation ago.

>>11127950
I'm definitely not trying to compete. But lately I have felt that my prayers been lacking, so hearing what the rest of your do is impressive.

>>11122490
I might go to hell, but he is definitely already there if he died believing there is any value in false religions.

>>11122556
False religions are by definition created by the Devil to lead people to hell. The world is already more secular than ever and it is the fault of that
very idea - religious indifferentism, to value all religions.

>>11127447
He was a "catholic" in the early 20th century who valued other religions. It is very likely that he was highly heretical and one of the theologians who helped create the Vatican II sect religion. I say that only by reading his wikipedia page. If you read his work though you'll probably find plenty of heresy.

>>11128003
Sede go away

>>11128003
On this:

Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos (# 2), Jan. 6, 1928: “… that false opinion which considers all religions to be more or less good and praiseworthy, … Not only are those who hold this opinion in error and deceived, but also in distorting the idea of true religion they reject it…”

Pope Pius IX, Qui Pluribus (# 15), Nov. 9, 1846: “Also perverse is that shocking theory that it makes no difference to which religion one belongs, a theory greatly at variance even with reason. By means of this theory, those crafty men remove all distinction between virtue and vice, truth and error, honorable and vile action. They pretend that men can gain eternal salvation by the practice of any religion, as if there could ever be any sharing between justice and iniquity, any collaboration between light and darkness, or any agreement between Christ and Belial.”

Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos (#10), Jan. 6, 1928: “… the union of Christians can only be promoted by promoting the return to the one true Church of Christ of those who are separated from it…”

Is Lord of the Rings a catholic novel?

>>11128055
Tolkien was more Catholic than 99% of this thread, but he disliked his works being viewed as allegory. So the answer is sort of.

>>11127935
Hey, some days like today, I prayed the Rosary twice, other days, I don't even get an Our Father out.

An ideal day for me includes the Rosary, an examination of conscience, and an act of contrition. Saying grace at meals and praying for Christ's assistance as I go about the day are efforts I strive for, but often missed. Personally I feel bad that I don't go to daily Mass. It's an amazing way to start the day but I get worried about slowing my pace before work.

I remind myself that some saints attended the liturgy of the hours, while some were hermits.

>>11120862
as other anons have hinted towards, you probably need brother giles
>blessed are those that love and therefore do not seek to be loved
>blessed are those that fear and therefore do not seek to be feared
>blessed are those who serve and therefore do not seek to be served
>blessed are those that do well onto others, and therefore do not desire that others will do well onto them
>and because these are great acts, the foolish cannot rise to them

>>11127808
not him, but the Marian apparitions "can of worms" doesn't amount to much more than
>not all Marian apparitions have been confirmed by the Church
>devil's advocates are James Randi skeptical about all miracles, especially Marian ones
>while the Church won't confirm a lot of things that are miracles, it will recognize local cults hold weird beliefs that don't place them outside the Church
>cult isn't pejorative in Catholicspeak
if you're trying to pretend to be a Catholic, please do a better job at it because I can name a couple of gay saints and the patron saint of bomb makers off the top of my head and would expect most twelve year old Catholic children to be able to as well.

What do you guys think about Pope Francis telling that kid that this atheist father is in heaven because he baptized his four children before dying? I really can't make up my mind about this situation.

>>11128674
meh. it's a non event like most of his term. JPII finding the dude who shot him to personally forgive him and console him or Ratzinger saying gay hookers should use condoms because nobody wants AIDS and it was their first step to grace is more what will the neighbors think kind of shit. even the extremists would be okay with that explanation, but if he told the kid he'd probably be in heaven because god loves us, there'd be some shit from the special people who think the st cyprian edict means you need to be a fully paid up member to be saved.

>>11128674
Because to the child his father was a good person, and Francis has nothing else to go by. Baptising your children would probably suggest perfect contrition too.

>>11128055
let's find out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzFs4EvyljI

>>11128674
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/what-no-salvation-outside-the-church-means

This offers a good explanation of the nuance of the Church's teaching on salvation.

>>11128003
>the Vatican II sect religion. I say that only by reading his wikipedia page
The absolute state of schismatics

>>11128003
>Merton wasn't a Catholic
>Vatican II is a heresy

Fuck off back to pol you trad-cath poseur

>>11127846
The Russian Orthodox Church is one of the most corrupt institutions on earth, they're sucking Putin's dick for some influence on secular politics. Fuck em.

bump

>>11116939
This man, in my country he is everything.

Hersey general, orthodoxy is the true faith

>>11131541
wrong thread no one is discussing Hersey here anon

>>11120833
Maybe Dietrich von Hildebrand, Transformation in Christ.

Also, if you haven't read it yet, Merton's New Seeds of Contemplation.

>>11118646
I've read his advent sermons and found it pretty good. Can check that out.

>>11125821
If he took vows of chastity as a monk and then relented on it yes that's an unholy death. He died in sin. If true that is. You can use eastern philosophies sure but it's not the faith and taking Taoism and Buddhism faith and adding it to Christianity is not allowed.

>>11131313
epic digits

>>11131313
is it a meme country or an actual country?

>>11128674
Jorge Bergoglio is a heretic that will burn in hell

Vatican II is a false council and should be quickly called into question by any decent Catholic.

Since its promulgation we have successively had more heretical popes to the point where God is begging us to look at "Pope Francis" and say "What the fuck is this, this man cannot be the Pope"

The novus ordo has led billions of people into hell. Just goes to show us just how narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it

>>11134411
kys

>>11134429
that's a sin, you should know that

>>11128674
>What do you guys think about Pope Francis telling that kid that this atheist father is in heaven because he baptized his four children before dying?
I think Jorge Bergoglio doesn't get to decide who goes to heaven and who doesn't.

(Not to mention the fact that "heaven" is a pagan concepts. Christians instead believe in the (bodily!) resurrection of the dead, and in the life of the world to come.)

>>11134486
So is disobeying the Pope

>>11134505
who said that? i mean part of being catholic is hating the church, it's always been a pillar of our tradition, you wouldn't understand

>>11134510
> seething prot

>>11134576
lol, no, the point is hating the church but you would never actually leave it, that's preposterous

>>11134505
No disobeying the dogma clarified by church of Christ is a sin. Which the pope certainly has.

extra ecclesiam nulla salus

Y'all pray this morning?

>>11120862
Anon, do not listen to >>11122825
You would get that same aesthetic with the Eastern Rite of Catholicism and more importantly, you'll have the whole truth on your side.

>>11134576
>>11135734
>protestants don't understand why catholics are still catholics even if they're atheist
you guys either really fucked up and should have read the fine print at confirmation or you're culturally protestant enough to never notice catholic tells

>>11127176
>no angelus
are you a late convert somewhere that doesn't have many churches or just really into newman?

>>11135772
Are you going to say something or just posture and feint smugness?

>>11135821
i'm not either of the anons they were responding to, but they're both wrong on dogma and doctrine (especially the guy quoting st cyprian in latin, because it's been over twenty years since the church made the clarification that the church of Christ doesn't preclude atheists who've never even heard of Jesus)
they're either bumpkins from the 15th C who timetravelled their way here, or they're ignorant. if they're actually catholic, they're worse off and more excluded from the body of Christ than an ignorant atheist/protestant.
they're prob LARPers and it's a firgive them fir they know not what they do situation, but if they're confirmed Catholics, they're intentionally defacing the Church and her doctrines

>>11135834
>divine truths are changeable

>its been over twenty years since the novus ordo heretics changes the stance of a two thousand year old church

You can go fuck yourself you conniving demonic heretic, it has been over 800 years since the fourth lateran council explicitly clarified
>"There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved."

never read graham greene before. where should i start?

>>11121122
Look, I'm not even a Christian, so I don't have a dog in the fight about Marian devotions or whatever, but how can Catholics look at images like this and not realise it is very obvious Mother-Goddess worship?

I don't even think it's a bad thing, it just seems dishonest to pretend otherwise

>>11122407
>tfw a dirty Nicene Christian got to meet spiritual giants like the Dalai Lama, Thich Nhat Hanh and goddamn Buddhadasa and the closet thing you'll ever get to meeting someone so prominent is watching Sadhguru videos in your Youtube recommended list

>>11135885
They're both arguing that defying the edicts of the living Church when the Pope speaks on temporal matters of faith and doctrine places you outside the Church- their only problem is that the current temporal view is that they're wrong. They could be excommunicated traditionalists, but then they wouldn't have a Pope and wouldn't recognize any Pope from the past 50 years. But in that case, they are not Roman Catholics, and are considered greater enemies of that Church than atheists.

If they want to say that you need to uphold the Papal edicts to be Catholic, then they are not Catholic precisely because they are trying to make out that ephemeral doctrines are the consistent body and church of Christ. If they want to be non-excommunicated Catholics and receive communion from a Roman Catholic Church, they would have to regret and make absolution for that beforehand.

It's pretty simple, and twelve year olds across the globe are reciting it in front of bishops who can deny them confirmation as Catholics if they get it wrong.

>>11135916
You are completely incoherent. Go deceive somewhere else.

>>11135891
It's not really mother goddess worship. It's veneration of a saint. Sometimes that becomes mother goddess worship, but Mary isn't the most popular female in heaven for the really pagan shit to still be shining through.
In Canada for instance, there's still Sheila's Day after St Patrick's Day among those descended from early Irish Catholics. Sheila is the Christianised Sheila na Gig, the death and birth goddess, and supposedly the wife of St Patrick.
Or St Brigid in Ireland is probably the ancient fire and war goddess Brigid.
Santeria likewise doesn't use Mary or the mainstream depictions of her as often as other saints to synchronize old deities with. Voudon too.
Veneration is different to worship, and it helps to keep in mind that Catholics believe that the communion of saints (i.e. anyone who is believed to be in Heaven) are part of God's intercession on Earth, like angels. They're invested with the Holy Spirit, so they're like people who God trusts with his magic powers, not God himself.
The patron saints thing is far weirder to me. Giving saints certain special magic powers out of all God's powers and not the rest is, well, weird. Why does God trust St Anthony with helping you find lost things, but not with cattle farming or well digging?

>>11135936
Anyone can check the Catechism if they like, and approved Roman Catholic encyclopedias on what the Church's current stance is. If you were Catholic, you'd probably already do this regularly because it's been a wild ride.

>>11135955
>It's not really mother goddess worship. It's veneration of a saint.
I mean, that's what it is on the surface, but from a purely psychological and archetypal perspective, it seems very hard to legitimately just call it "veneration."

Like, whenever your average Italian nonna sees something stressful and claims "Santa Maria!" I don't really think they're trying to calmly invoke the mother of Jesus to petition God for help. I feel as though they're more just asking for Mary herself to protect them and comfort them.

>>11135887
depends what you want. power and the glory is probably most thread related, but they're all good and fucked up

>>11135989
>I mean, that's what it is on the surface, but from a purely psychological and archetypal perspective, it seems very hard to legitimately just call it "veneration."
I don't know. That's kind of like saying "Well, they *say* veneration but what they're secretly thinking is "worship" and they'll just never tell us or themselves". I think Catholic view it as a different thing to worshipping God, and some of my understanding of their attempts to contact saints is that they don't think that prayer needs to be address to God or anyone that high up. For instance, Judas is high up in the Devil's organization, so Catholics believe that praying to saints who might sound like him, like St Jude, should be avoided, because you might contact the wrong organization. They don't think you're potentially contacting the Devil, but something like his secretary, which could get passed up along. When you contact St Jude, it's a last resort, but it's not prerequisitely something you'd put to God directly either to avoid the confusion. It's something that's being sent to the person in charge of last resorts, who isn't God, and might even be the wrong person.

I think they're asking for protection which results from God, but not being vain enough to ask God to deal with it when he's already delegated it. I think it also stops from using God's name in vain, because you're not appealing to him when you stub your toe, and taking Mary's name in vain is nowhere in the commandments. I don't think it's worship of the saint; it's that it wouldn't be enough worship/fear of God/appreciation of God if they did send every request to him, and not to someone or something with lesser powers. It sees like a "don't waste God's time, he's busy" idea, more than a "Mary has my back more than Jesus" conception.

With the offshoots like Voodoo it's often "Jude has my back more than Jesus", which is like pagan worship/polytheism, but I think the Catholics who pray to saints take the other view and separate themselves from Santeria practices and such by that line: is it because you're not wasting God's time, or not wasting your time with asking puny God when Mary is more likely to be instant miracle maker?

>>11136048
Sorry for all the typos

>>11136048
The term "veneration" really just means "giving someone a lot of respect / praise." A good example would be how Republicans venerate Ronald Reagan.

I don't necessarily see the intercession of saints as just "asking a respectable person for God's help." Not in a psychological sense, anyway. The role that saints play in the lives of Catholics is akin to the archetypal figures of all religions throughout history, who serve to help, protect and guide the faithful on his or her journey through life. If the human mind didn't require such figures, then Catholics would just go straight to God 100% of the time, since there'd be no psychological need for a more "visible" figure.

I mean you said yourself, you find it weird that certain saints have specific spheres. What does it mean that Saint Luke is the "patron saint of artists?" If you're an artist, wouldn't all your blessings come to you from God himself? And sure you could ask St Luke to ask God to make your artwork popular, but then you could also ask St Peter, St Catherine, etc.
Well, as I've said, the answer is simple. "St Luke" has just become the god of artwork. Obviously not in an "official" sense, but there's no doubt in my mind that Luke fills the same psychological niche as say, Apollo.

>>11136116
I think what you're saying is that Catholics don't know they're really worshiping when they say they're venerating. Sorry, but I think that's just your belief about Catholics, not their belief about this. It doesn't really fit any archetype, and most attempts to establish such an archetype and classification strikes me as weird for the same reason dividing up the patronage of saints does. I think you want to simplify religion to your belief system and archetypes, and I really don't think Catholics are going to elevate the Hero's Journey or something above what their stated beliefs are. I think they actually believe that shit, and not the shit you believe about them. Sorry if this sounds harsh, I don't really have anything against your belief in archetypes, any more than the Catholic patron saints division, it just doesn't seem less arbitrary and have any effect on or congruence with what Catholics say they believe.
It really strikes me as a "no, I know what they're thinking better than they do, because MY belief is truer". I think they are legitimately and consciously not doing what you say they are, because they legitimately and consciously and vocally believe that doing that is a sin and could send them to Hell forever or something awful like that. In the St Jude case they might think it's worthwhile to risk their soul, but they don't class it as the same thing as worshipping the Devil either. I think you're trying to eliminate or ignore those nuances and their opinion because it doesn't fit with how you divide religion.

>>11136116
also, I remember from an Orthodox bro that St Luke is the patron of artists, because he supposedly painted the first icon of Jesus. Icons are a bigger thing in Orthodoxy, but they shared the same church for a thousand years after Luke, so it's probably the Catholic reason too.
It just strikes me as weird the stories.
>well he was really good at sheep farming, make him patron of that
>well he got hit on the head with a hammer, make him patron of that
>he got shot with arrows, make him favourite saint of faggots

>>11136157
I will freely admit I consider Nicene Christianity to be a deeply flawed and largely incoherent worldview.

>I think they are legitimately and consciously not doing what you say they are, because they legitimately and consciously and vocally believe that doing that is a sin and could send them to Hell forever or something awful like that.
Right, but it's not the conscious part I'm interested in, its the unconscious part. I do not accept the idea of "belief"; instead all I see is an interplay of projection and internalization of the different assumptions people have of the universe. Perhaps a good-natured Catholic will tell you that they call upon Saint Mary to ask her to pray to God for them, and one on level they would be correct. However, since I reject the existence of God in the first place, what I instead see happening in reality is someone appealing to a mother-figure who is then supposed to appeal to a father-figure, just with an elaborate set of dogmatic language used in the process.

I apologise if I'm coming across as stubborn, but that's only because I utterly reject the basis that most mainstream Christian thought is even based off. It's hard to accept someone's specific axioms on worship if you don't even accept the axioms their worship is based off.

>>11136240
I think your view is probably as flawed and incoherent. Your basic gripe seems to be that you have a different systematic understanding of the world to that which Catholics have. I agree you believe different things to them. I don't think it's any less a belief system, and I'd suspect it's as flawed an incoherent as any other system which thinks it's bang on the money. I'm kind of on the "you're as wrong as each other" fence, but I'd take a Catholic's word on what a Catholic believes above someone who is trying to prove them wrong and push another system, especially when they try to prove that they can essentially mind read. I'd have the same problem if you were trying to tell me that from a buddhist perspective, or by trying to show me "thoughts" on an MRI or with an e-meter. I just think the Catholics are a better source on Catholicism than those. I wouldn't trust a Catholic to have a good view of Santeria practices necessarily either, though they are linked and Santeria practitioners probably have a very good view of Catholic practices though they ignore that Catholicism doesn't approve, which is the Catholic belief most pertinent to whether they have faith/heresy running through their practice. I think if you say it's the same, it makes it very hard to explain heresy or even why you have a problem with Catholic divisions, because, if they are lying about what they believe, then secretly, they agree with you which is probably what you want.
I really think you're annoyed they don't agree with your beliefs about what they're doing, more than you're right about them lying to everyone. I really don't think they're making it up to just troll you, I think they just believe they're a monotheistic religion, which most people would agree with. Your objection to that seems like a more idiosyncratic belief than theirs or Santeria's by numbers alone.

>>11136305
>I think your view is probably as flawed and incoherent
From an ultimate perspective, I entirely agree. IMO, unless one has achieved spiritual enlightenment, then your opinions are going to be flawed, no matter how much you've worked on them.

>because, if they are lying about what they believe,
I don't think they're lying at all. Rather, I think they are compelled by hidden unconscious forces, as virtually all of humanity are.
I'm sure Hitler was very sincere in his belief that the Jews were manipulating Germany towards ruin; that does not discount the fact that such beliefs almost certainly arose from a multitude of unconscious biases that he simply wasn't aware of.

>I really don't think they're making it up to just troll you, I think they just believe they're a monotheistic religion, which most people would agree with.
Yes, and again, I absolutely agree. I'm certain most Catholics, most Sunnis, etc. are consciously sincere in their beliefs. I just don't see beliefs as being independent of the unconscious forces dictating a human's mind.

>>11136366
>From an ultimate perspective, I entirely agree. IMO, unless one has achieved spiritual enlightenment, then your opinions are going to be flawed, no matter how much you've worked on them.
I don't think that really exists. Which is why I think your system is about as good as scientologist saying to me, what you need to do is measure the mass of the thought. You're just telling me your belief system, which isn't Catholic or really anything to do with literature. It's kind of a loose modernist-postmodernist mix relying on terms from disciplines which contradict each other. It's not particularly more interesting or well formed than any of the shower thoughts on how the spirit world really works from twitter.
I think you're failing to realize that your system is probably higher in contradiction and ass pulls than Catholics or Scientologists. They've written more, so they do have easy to pick on twitter to "discuss" points, but proportionate to the things that don't contradict themselves and other systems, those "gotcha" points are pretty low. If you want to world build the system you're presenting to me, you'd need to be more vicious with your own beliefs. Why accept humans are unconscious forces and archtypes, if you're going to reject the rest of Jung's metaphysics, and why does that classification of religious understanding take precedence above the universal unconscious. How is this classification above the flaws of the classification other belief systems produce? Wouldn't the chance you have the archetype wrong and the people who don't worship deities but venerate something below that be more congruent with your lack of belief in God be higher, purely because your view is not archetypal? No offense, because they might be your personal beliefs, but if this was a novel, I'd be criticizing the author's lack of thought when he wanted to create an all embracing system. It's not even L Ron tier synthesizing of psychology and religion.

>>11136429
>belief in God be higher
belief in God **are right** be higher

>>11136429
What makes you assume I'm trying to create an "all-embracing" system? Like I said, I find even the idea of "belief" to be flawed, so what sense would it make for me to try and create my own "belief system?" Yes, sometimes I find certain "models" of reality to be expedient, but I try to discard them as soon as they prove unable to explain things further.

>if you're going to reject the rest of Jung's metaphysics
I'm not really sure where you're going with this, considering I didn't really outline any of my other ideas, other than a rejection of God, which may be what you're refering to.

>Wouldn't the chance you have the archetype wrong and the people who don't worship deities but venerate something below that be more congruent with your lack of belief in God are right be higher, purely because your view is not archetypal?
I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here, could you clarify?

>>11136483
>I'm free of a belief system
I believe you believe that. I find it arrogant the way I find other people who say "no, what the Jews really meant was..." or "no, they think they believe in Mohammed the prophet, but all prophets are secretly this lady speaking in tongues from Montana, Mohammed's just her nom de guerre in Arabia". I think you're kidding yourself as much as them that your belief system isn't a series of beliefs strung together to form a world view. Especially since most major religions string together expedient systems more coherently than you have. This really isn't about Catholicism any more, but about your folk religion, and it's not really an interesting one compared to the smorgasbord of more coherent ones out there.
>could you clarify?
If you system is based in archetypes, then simply denying a more obvious archetype which is believed in by more people than just you seems really fucking arbitrary. For it to be archetypal, it should cohere more people to it than just you. Saged and abandoned because I really get the feeling you just want your religion of one validated and not to talk about anything on topic. Good luck.

>>11136577
I think you've just kind of assumed I see things through a limited series of archetypes based on my first post, which just isn't the case at all. If you would let me explain myself further you'd see I probably don't even disagree with you, but it seems it's too late for that.

>>11129284
Any proofs?

not catholic-related but has anyone got quietist recs?

>>11137433
Seconding for this,.

I've recently read Les Diaboliques by Jules Barbey D'Aurevilly. Not very Christ-like but I really enjoyed it.

>>11136157
I don't understand why veneration is considered a controversial practice relegated to just Catholicism, it exists in Judaism and Islam as well which often have more critical takes on conduct

>>11139185
or even being on weeb site that ancestor veneration isn't the same as worshipping them. i think a lot of the problem is that catholicism is close enough to protestantism they might know we have saints.
the protestant denominations that have saints generally don't bring it up as a thing, but the people who do generally don't know that much about religion in general (or that some protestants still have saints, or that orthodox do, etc.)

i think they generally only hear "veneration of saints" when they hear veneration, and assume that's a weird catholic practice with special costumes and blood sacrifices, when sometimes it means "i think my grandma's in heaven and ask her to look out for everyone".

Any recs in Spanish?

>>11141337
No. English only.

>>11138781
ok since nobody has provided recs yet i'll give you the best i've found (not that i've found much) - there's "the cloud of unknowing" which should approximately fit, and there's also the celtic version of christianity which is quite down-to-earth and sceptical of the church. recently i read "celtic parables", collected by Robert van de Weyer, and very much enjoyed it despite being an atheist - it's wise and reassuring. celtic christianity seems pretty interesting in general.

>>11116939
I need Catholic friends

>>11142851
go volunteer at a catholic soup kitchen or something, get religious friends is like the easiest kind of friends to get other than drug friends, actually maybe even easier cuz drug friends only like u when u got money for drugs, but religion friends always like u as long as u got a soul

>>11142859
But I want intellectual Catholic friends, like you guys, also can Catholics do drugs ?

>>11142851
but anon, they worship mary
you won't step into the kingdom of god anon

>>11142894
No we don't worship Mary

>>11142851
Become a priest.

>>11142890
there's a jesuit college in my city, i have never met an intellectual catholic, sorry, well maybe a professor or two, but it's not like ppl be talkin about aquinas in line at dunkin donuts or sth

>>11142890
>i want intellectual religious companions
v unlikely to happen
>can caths do drugs
its strongly frowned upon, there is a substrate of sensuous maddona-whore catholics who simultaenously read the bible and do amphetamine/coke anal sex but they’re rare. You will probably hang out with closet cases, betas, autists and prudes

>>11142908
Why the ave maria then.
Christ never mentioned prayer to anyone, but the Father. It seems risky, useless, and ill-intentionned, to pray to anyone or anything Jesus didn't explicitly allow. Why not then pray to the Bible ? Pray to those he Saved ? Where do you draw the line ?

>>11142890
>>11142919

judging from the amount of junkies hanging out around outside of catholic charities axin for spare change, i would say: YES

>>11127176
>Playwright: Shakespeare
Nice try. You guys are like the black Egyptologists of the literary world

>>11142890
Anything outside of cannabis is permitted, provided you do not allow it to control you and you do not intend to take it for recreation.

>>11143046
Why cannabis is not permitted?

>>11142939
Hate the sin, love the sinner.

>>11142933
You seem to misunderstand how Catholics pray.
We only "pray" to God in the sense that we venerate him as the most high and as our Lord.
When we "pray" to Mary, we're not doing this. We are asking her for intercession.
We ask her, like we might ask a friend, to pray for us. When you ask your friend to keep you in their prayers, you're asking for their intercession just as we ask Mary for her intercession.
We see that Mary and the saints as humans who have lived holy lives, so they are great intercessors, as opposed to just another fallen human riddled with sin.

>>11142890
>can Catholics do drugs ?
if it doesn't stop them from being healthy. (it's considered to be healthy to be able to reproduce so avoid drugs you can't get pregnant with, unless you'll die without them)

>>11143070
I don't remember the exact reason, but I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to alter your state of mind in a major way. So not only doing drugs, but also something like intentionally drinking to the point of blacking out.

>>11142933
>Why the ave maria then.
because it's what the angel said to her, except probably not in latin.

>>11143484
To be clear, this is biblical if you don’t ignore Maccabees because you don’t like it(like Luther).

>>11143484
I know catholics say they are not praying directly to mary, but to the father, through mary. But they also often pray directly to Christ, which is unbiblical as I pointed out - Christ only explicitly prays to the father.
As far as the concept of intercession is concerned, it's highly confusing ; that the dead, or the saints, may act in strange ways for us with regards to God, that God may send them acting on our behalf, etc., all of that is of course thinkable. You say >>11143648 it is Biblical, but I don't see where Christ allows us to *ask for intercession*, to pray for Saints or anyone for that matters to intercede on our behalf. I don't see it in Maccabees. It seems like speculation. I would stay far away from such a thing, it seems highly unnecessary and misguided with regards to Jesus' teachings on simple prayers.


>>11143530
How does that make it valid as a prayer ?

>>11143484
was just going to ask this >>11143848

how on Earth are you still praying if you're asking for a dead person to pray on your behalf? also why not ask your mom? why is a dead person's prayer worth more? Why does praising Mary have extra effect? Finally, isn't this like asking ancestor spirits to intervene on your behalf? That sounds like paganism

>>11143853
The saints are already in Heaven. That's precisely what makes them saints. Therefore, we know they are beloved by God and are right with him. They have a purity of focus and intention that no one living could have. So, when they pray for us, it is more effective than any living person's prayer.

>>11143869
>Therefore, we know they are beloved by God and are right with him.
But, there are other people in Heaven too
>They have a purity of focus and intention that no one living could have
According to the Catholic Church, God hasn't told me this and its not in the Bible, nor is praying to Saints
>So, when they pray for us, it is more effective than any living person's prayer
Wait, so you are saying that God gives special powers to the faithful and they are allowed to effect the outcome of life on Earth more than humans? Doesn't that a) lessen our free will since they can cause Deus Ex Machinas randomly AND b) suggest that there is an incentive to look to saints for solutions or to become a saint as a solution rather than waiting for Christ's return and living morally?

You don't see how fucking stupid this arrangement is or how out of wack it sounds with the NT? You guys used to torture people for praying to idols but you can literally invoke a saint by reciting a rote operation out loud with good intent and they'll intervene on your behalf and change reality, THEY WILL, not God. And if its really God whose doing it then WHY THE FUCK ARE THE SAINTS GIVEN THE POWER? You delegate powers that don't make fucking sense. IF God couldn't intervene ever then angels and saints sort of seem plausible, still fucking stupid since they can control fate and humans can't but ostensibly have free will. But, since he absolutely can intervene then why doesn't he just do all of it? Why not just pray to God himself?

Lord please make this poster respond, what he said was stupid, I am displeased with this and I think he's insulting your son and the Holy Spirit thing that inexplicably exists when again you could just be doing all of this because you're God the Father, the Almighty

Amen

This has been bugging my lately, a lot of people here claim to be religious but how many of you actually practice and go to church regularly?

https://www.strawpoll.me/15688376

>>11143884
>But, there are other people in Heaven too

Yes but we don't know if they're in Heaven or not. Again, that's what being a saint means. When someone dies, we don't know, initially, if they are in Heaven, Purgatory, or Hell. But if we can prove they're saints (through an investigation and through proof of miracles) then we can confirm that they are definitely in Heaven.

>>11143884
Oh look, it's an autistic Protestant invading the Catholicism thread.

You realize that the Catholic Church compiled the New Testament that you cite in order to criticize it, right? But surely you're wiser than the very men who put the Bible together by the Holy Spirit.

>>11143884
Also, Christ told people not to pray in public like the pagans, and yet here you are, virtue signalling in the exact way that He told people not to do.

>>11143979
Go make a protestant thread you loser. You are banished from this thread.

>>11128674
He is God's authority on earth and his opinion should be respected even if you don't agree with him.

>>11144242
What? Did you link the wrong post?

>>11144253
It sounds like he is addressing Catholics, saying Also made me think it was the same person

>>11143892
Every Sunday, but also all the holy days of obligation and sometimes for events like speakers and feasts.

>>11142966
Just read the wikipedia article on Shakespeare, namefag.
I am this poster:
>>11143975
>>11143979

>>11144263
>>11144272
my post linking skills are just garbage today

>>11143892
voted no. tfw christian master race.

>>11135908
>lusting after spiritual celebrities
never gonna make it

>>11144279
*christian mystic

Any of your local churches do Latin masses? I think they are pretty cool.

Is it a sin for a Catholic to read Hegel? It seems like it's only compatible with Protestantism.

>>11144287
You know Sadler is Catholic? He makes Hegel videos.

>>11144295
Doesn't mean he accepts Hegels views entirely. Does he talk about a Catholic Hegel at all? As far as I know Hegel rejects any idea that there can be some other realm other than the experience of consciousness so God can't be some kind of transcendental being but something that is technically within reach of any spirit.

>>11144279
Spiritual masters can be of tremendous help to the spiritual aspirant in their journey. One should obviously not rely on them, but it's folly to say that an encounter with one can't also extremely beneficial.

>Gerald, there's something wrong without our TV. It's playing the "Christians debate their arbitrary axioms according to their arbitrary axioms" episode AGAIN!

>>11144483
imagine being this disconnected from any principle of a higher order

>>11144586
>believing that a Jewish apocalyptic preacher who was his own son died on the cross so he could forgive his own creation is necessary for recognising cosmic ordering principles

>>11144769
>cosmic ordering principles
You mean metaphysics? If you recognize the validity of metaphysics yet you insist upon shitting on Christianity obtusely you're just a biased faggot.

>>11144799
>If you recognize the validity of metaphysics yet you insist upon shitting on Christianity obtusely you're just a biased faggot.
holy shit how is it even possible to be this deluded

>>11144807
>>11144769

>>11144799
I don't shit on Christianity obtusely. I shit on Christian dogma, which is both unfalsifiable and used as a tool for political power.

You wanna talk metaphysics? Cool, I'm all for it. Just leave your arbitrary political / theological / dogmatic disputes at the door.

>>11144818
>disagree with me? you obviously must be biased
>woah what a retarded thing to say
>NOT AN ARGUMENT

>>11144931
No, I don't really want to "leave my arbitrary dogma at the door" in the Catholicism general. If you aren't interested in discussing "arbitrary dogma" you're in the wrong thread.

>>11144931
You came into the thread to say Christianity is stupid, you said it, you're done here, yeah? Any final notes?

>>11144918
whoops, meant to link you in this >>11144951

>>11144918
The Vedas are unfalsifiable and used as a tool for political power. The Quran is unfalisifiable and used as a tool for political power. So is the Talmud. Are there any major world religions you approve of? If you apply the same standards to Christianity that you do to the other religions there won't be one left standing to escape your scorn. And yet you're "all for talking metaphysics". In case you didn't notice, religion IS metaphysics. That isn't all that religion is, but it's a very necessary component.

>>11127870
wtf is going on in lithuania

>>11145964
prussia said it was wrong and until prussia issues more orders, they're going to keep doing shit that way

bump

>>11143975
Some scholars argue Marcion compiled the Bible. If it were shown to be true, would you be a Marcionite ? Would you purge the supposed "added" parts and change your beliefs ? Or would you, taking in account the Ancient Testament, hold the same faith ?
Same thing for protestants. Also, the early Church was very often, very close to god. Protestants don't reject all teachings, all teachers.

Btw I'm not the one you are responding to, but the one who criticized intercession first in the thread yesterday.

>>11143979
Btw2, this is true, do not pray in public.

>>11147672
The bottom line is that 'Sola Scriptura' is an absurdity when the New Testament was codified by the Catholic Church at the time it came into existence, regardless of who exactly is responsible.

I think the idea that you can find in scripture something that "btfos Papists" is frankly just foolish given that the Bible was studied intensively by priests and monks for ~1200 years without any reformation.

>>11116939
I'm reading Heretics right now. I don't really know half the people Chesterton is critiquing in these essays though.

>>11125813
>was involved in a questionable relationship with a woman.
Naw, he just had a crush on a nurse, but nothing came of it.

On a lighter note, who is your favorite desert father (or mother)?

>>11116939
>"recommend Merton"
>flirts with eastern philosophies, probably had physical relationship with woman
Yeah, that's Catholic.

>>11148273
Doesn't matter. He took vows.
That's why he died an unholy death.

>>11127252
I cried reading this, my dude. My intellect is sharp; my experience, vast; but my spirit is poor. Disguised as indifference, there is hate in me. I wish I could believe, anon. I want to believe. I feel so alone.

>>11122675
This is Thomas, right?

>>11149153
Wasn't it a vow of celibacy though? He didn't actually have anything physical with her. Do you expect monks to never sin in their thoughts?

>>11149520
Pray, pray everyday. Read the bible. Read about Saints. Put the hate in you to rest. Be strong, my dude, it is at our lowest when we stand to grow the most in our faith.

New Catholic general when?

>>11149520
>My intellect is sharp; my experience, vast

>>11143848
>How does that make it valid as a prayer ?
>how is reciting scriptures prayer
wat. that doesn't even work with other religions.

>>11151367
this one is barely two thirds of the way through. calm down bro

Know this, Christ-cucks
where ever I find you I shall shitpost about your disgusting Jew religion until you are afraid to post anywhere for fear of being ridiculed, as you rightly deserve.

>>11151643
this is a european roman catholic thread, anon

>>11151666
It's all the same Jewish cancer to me. Nice ironic trips, fag.

>>11151682
>using kabbalah numerology
Please leave, American degenerate of probable Lutheran extraction.

>>11151690
Sorry I can't hear you over your baby foreskin blood gurgling sounds

>>11151818
>t. America, where circumcision is more common
So I was right about you being monolingual and pleb.

>>11151834
En ole yksikielinen enkä ainakan mikään vitun jenkki vitun autisti homo

>>11151863
>i'm from a place which would recognize that the majority of catholicism is irish and not jewish, since their first books are written by those monks
i really expect more from somewhere that elected a poet minister of finance

>>11151871
He's Finnish not Icelandic. Though he can't really spell in Finnish, or thinks he's being funny.

>>11151871
>not able to recognize a finno-ugric language and mistaking it for a Ger*anic one
>calling others plebs
Nothing less from the average delusional kike worshipper.

>>11151879
Osaan kirjottaa suomeksi aivan mainiosti, mutta ette te vammaiset sitä tietenkään tajua.

>>11151879
iirc the voyage of st brendan's from around those parts, not iceland. you're right though the poet finance minister was iceland. i just group all the places with beliefs in gnomes and governments which seem designed by gnomes, sorry.

>>11151897
>Osaan kirjottaa
You're not funny.

>>11151910
Selitätkö että mitä vittua koitat sanoa? Tuutko oikeesti pätemään suomea äidinkielenään puhuvalle siitä mikä mun kieliopissa on vialla?

>>11148639
Based Saint Anthony, of course. Saint Athanasius' "Life of Anthony" was a fun read.

>>11151936
protestants, pagans out

>>11116939
How many Catholic there are here?

>>11151960
But anon. /lit/ is a pagan board

>>11151863

>>11151968
No /pol/ is the pagan board.
/lit/ is fully aware of the oneness of truth and God, and its affinity with early Hellenistic thinking. We read, we know, we believe, we protecc the weaklings for God but in this world

>>11116939
>Thomas Merton
>Catholic

>>11117058
Very nice chart, saved

>>11151968
The only Pagans I've met IRL all talk about how Paganism is open to everyone and you don't have to be White to worship Odin and whatnot.

>>11153000
Lol. If you're Swedish I can't say I'm surprised.

>>11153152
American

>>11153166
Even worse