/lit/ - Literature

Is it possible to have traditionalism without racism?

>>11113509
stop thinking everyone in here is white

>>11113509
No. Tradition is inherently racist.

>>11113589
but Guenon is a sufi...
Racism really doesn't make sense here...

>>11113509
>>11113683

The idea that there is only one human type is a moronic modern concept that is such an obvious falsehood you only have to open your eyes to notice. But as anon said >>11113586. Believe it or not, Whites aren't the only ones to notice that there are different human types.

Traditionalism is about metaphysical Truth. Racism is not a useful concept for metaphysical or spiritual discussion, it is not a concept in any traditional Holy Text.

>>11113786
What about the caste system in Hinduism?

>>11113509
No
Racism is natural
Traditionalism is ultimately about nature
Racism =/= Hating someone on the basis of their race if thats what you mean

>>11113843
It's fundamentally meant to organize people into what role in society that are best suited to play (in terms of their innate qualities); and there is textual evidence from the Vedas to support this. Birth (in the sense that the child is a mix of the parents) is often but not always a predictor of someone's innate qualities. The fact that it is primarily determined by birth can be considered a partial but understandably practical degeneration of how it's originally supposed to work (we are in the Kali Yuga after all so partial degeneration of things should almost be expected)

It is true that the upper-castes in Northern regions of India have more Indo-European decent. It is likely that during the chaotic period of the invasion/migration into India of the Indo-Europeans that the native population often ended up being placed into the lower castes. However over the centuries there were periods where the caste system wasn't entirely inflexible and there is evidence that over time bloodlines tended to move into the caste most suitable to the innate qualities they passed down; hence the existence of dark-skinned/Dravidian Brahmin and Kshatriya communities in India today. Caste is Dharma applied to the social order and it helps keep Hindu society stable; and the deepest metaphysical teachings of Hinduism ultimately teach that caste becomes contingent and unimportant once you reach the highest levels of realization where all is One. Overall I think the caste system is a good think, it's not inherently 'racist' and the deepest teachings of the religion it belongs to teach that race and ethnicity are only secondary consideration in themselves.

>>11113460
>making a traditionalist thread without posting the advaita copypasta so people can read the primary texts of one of the most purest expositions of traditional metaphysics for themselves


Adi Shankara's Prasthanatrayi commentaries (his most important works)

>Commentary on 8 of the Muhkya Upanishads part 1
https://archive.org/details/EightUpanishadsWithSankarabhashyamSwamiGambhiranandaVol11989
>Commentary on 8 of the Muhkya Upanishads part 2
https://archive.org/details/EightUpanishadsWithSankarabhashyamSwamiGambhiranandaVol21966
>Brahma Sutra Bhasya (commentary) of Shankaracharya
https://archive.org/details/BrahmaSutraSankaraBhashyaEngVMApte1960
>The Bhagavad-Gita with commentary of Shankaracharya
https://archive.org/details/Bhagavad-Gita.with.the.Commentary.of.Sri.Shankaracharya


Adi Shankaras non-commentary Prakarana Granthas (philosophical treatises)

>Atma Bodha (Self-knowledge)
http://www.lovebliss.eu/Download/Atma%20Bodha.pdf
>Upadesasahasri (A Thousand Teachings)
http://estudantedavedanta.net/Sri_Shankaracharya-Upadeshasahasri%20-%20Swami%20Jagadananda%20%281949%29%20[Sanskrit-English].pdf
>Aparokshanubhuti (Direct experience)
https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.216548
>Vivekachudamani (Crest Jewel of Discrimination)
https://ia800108.us.archive.org/18/items/Vivekacudamani/Vivekacudamani.pdf

Non-Adi Shankara Advaita texts

>Voga Vasistha
https://archive.org/details/VasisthasYoga
>The Ashtavakra Gita
https://realization.org/p/ashtavakra-gita/richards.ashtavakra-gita/richards.ashtavakra-gita.html
>The Ribhu Gita
https://archive.org/stream/RibhuGitaRamaMoorthyH./Ribhu%20Gita%20%20Rama%20Moorthy%20H.%20#page/n1/mode/2up
>Avadhuta Gita
https://www.holybooks.com/wp-content/uploads/Song-of-the-Avadhut-by-Dattatreya.pdf
>Advaita Bodha Deepika (The lamp of non-deal knowledge)
https://selfdefinition.org/ramana/Advaita-Bodha-Deepika.pdf
>Drg-Drsya-Viveka (An inquiry into the Nature of the 'Seer' and the 'Seen')
https://vivekananda.net/PDFBooks/Others/DrgDrsyaViveka1931.pdf
>The Tripura Rahasya (Mystery Beyond the Trinity)
https://www.beezone.com/Ramana/tripura%20rahasya.pdf

Ashtavakra Gita for the TLDR, Adi Shankara's commentaries + Yoga Vasistha can be considered core texts, Shankara's non-commentary works and the other non-Shankara texts complement the core ones

>>11113786
What are jews and gentiles?

First for
Evola > Schuon

>>11113940
Guenon>Evola>>>Coomaraswamy>>>>>>>>>Schuon>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nasr

>>11113942
As much of an Evolaboo I am, Coomaraswamy was pretty woke.

>>11113509
>it's a modern conflates the recognition of there being fundamentally different human types with racism episode

its all so tiring

>>11114027
anon asked a genuine question, got genuine responses. No need to poke fun at them.

>>11113942
The real answer is: (solely about their books and not on details of their lives)

Guenon>Coomaraswamy>Pallis>Schuon>Nasr>Evola>Eliade

>>11113942
I like Nasr better than Schuon. The student has surpassed the teacher.

I'm not an expert on Traditionalism by any means, I've read a couple books from Guenon and Evola, but I've heard strange things about Schuon like vertical wives and other stuff. Can someone extrapolate a bit?

Still looking for some recommendations on distributivism and solidarism from you Christposters

>>11114232
there's evidence he did a lot of heterodox stuff, but i don't know how solid or reliable the evidemce is. many of these things are discussed in Sedgewick's book

>>11114238
I am also thoroughly interested in that subject.
t. Christposter

Thoughts on this post? >>11103188

>>11114294
No.

>>11114279
Glad that Christopsters are interested in the subject as well.

>>11114279
>>11114456
Christopher here

Can confirm

>>11113898
Got it. So ethnicity is only of secondary importance to a persons spirit or essence?

>>11113942
>guenon above evola

Thoughts on Hakim Bey?

>>11115086
pretty much everyone agrees on that

>>11115086
Evola is plebeian as fuck. Literally a disgruntled manlet.

>>11115114
>>11115138

>>11115149
The only thing he did better was his recognition of how to apply traditionalism and his dislike of Christianity, even though he points out many good parts of it throughout tons of his works

>>11113460
Stop trying to make your shit bait general a thing, traditionalism belongs in /pol/itical discussion

>>11115213
>stop making threads about literature on a literature board

>>11113477
<3 Evola

>>11113509
racism isn't all bad. I'm glad there are ethostates for asians, africans, arabs

>>11115213
mad, are we

>>11115213
/pol/ doesnt read
they think they can be capitalist conservatives and nazis at the same time
please, you have the entire board to shitpost your liberal acceptance drivel, let us have this one thread

>>11115208

>>11115303
I'm an evolaboo and I'm admitting that, so please tell me how Evola is superior to Guenon

>>11115299
>they think they can be capitalist conservatives and nazis at the same time
If you watch TV, the leftists will have you believe this is the case as well.

>>11115310
I just wanted a reason to post Roy Batty desu
Anyway I just like Evola more because he lived what he preached. I kind of view Guenon turning to Islam and marrying an Egyptian woman as running away. Lots of Traditionalists sort of "ran away" or comitted suicide. Evola didn't.

>>11115312
Everyone is a Nazi
The left call the right Nazis and the right call the left Nazis
Reality is the Nazis hated the left and the right

>>11115319
oh yeah i agree, that's the first part of what i said with how to apply traditionalism. Even with the Ride the Tiger approach where they shouldn't be too worried about the modern day Evola was still heavily influential compared to late Guenon who was basically a retiree (and kind of nutters in the mind).

>>11115086
>>11115149

When these threads first became a thing there was genuine discussion about the ideas. Now, it has all devolved into memes and pointless protests about which author was the "coolest." Where did the original posters run off to? Private email exchanges?

>>11115467
Evola writes specifically on Parasu-Rama in mystery of the grail.
>>11115502
Give a question and others will answer, or make an argument and get one back. That simple

>>11115506
Okay. What are the metaphysics of faith and prayer? Why are they necessary for the initiate?

Let's talk about Traditionalist conceptions of the death-state. Reincarnation (properly qualified) or dissolution into the void? Both? N-neither? What about the soul? Hylomorphic schema that does not pre-exist its concrete instantiation or the eternal, prenatal decision to be one's self? This is what I'm interested in

>>11115521
Faith is showing that one has the sense of a higher power and as such a higher purpose.
Prayer is a tradition that reaffirms the above point, as well as could be a form of meditation which helps connect you with the higher purpose. Good video on it here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzjx4yneCZs
As for the initiate point, there is another divide here. Evola states that in some groups initiates don't even need to pray since they already contain the higher knowledge.

>>11115299
>they think they can be capitalist conservatives and nazis at the same time
You can. What do you think the Junkers were?

>>11115526
no individual can achieve reincarnation, the soul pushes the spirit to achieve it but only those who are awakened won't go back into the cycle of samsara.
For those who don't go into it, it's basically like a river of water and the body is a bottle. Pour the water out and it mixes with other water. It will never be the same

>>11115545
>faith is just religious and aesthetic romanticism

Try again

>>11115555
not what i'm saying. It shows the feminine spirit, as evola says, that allows one to gain the higher spirit in the first place.

>>11114027

>>11115502
the other threads started organically, now we have "general" threads every day, there's only so much you can say

>>11113460
Can you post some /trad/-approved music here? Here's some of my playlist for today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4-_h-le7Nw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a0ZeJLUdEo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O_nia32f8w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2zxrif5cDI
https://comfy.moe/ogpoeu.mp4

>>11115550
>What do you think the Junkers were?
Not Nazis

I much prefer the fire from Evola than the dryness from Guenon, but I must say that Lord of the World is a good book.

>>11114467
If only there were enough of you to get a distributivism and solidarism discussion going. Thought about starting a discussion thread for it but I wouldn't know where to begin/how to go about it.

>>11115651
What are your thoughts on it? In Evola's interview he agreed that it was his most "mysterious" book if I recall.

I find that Guenon's writings can be multidimensional, that it provides a point of contact between hesitant Catholics and the new confrontation of Eastern beliefs and myths, while also providing some nature into the metaphysics of kingship, triply providing information about the meaning of retrieving and searching for the Grail, the intellectual intuition/faith of Edenic Adam and center of the world that alone can provide the access to metaphysical knowledge.

I recommend you to read Symbolism of the Cross if you enjoyed Lord of the World. It definitely compliments and furthers it. Symbols of Sacred Science is a great resource to have as well, but isn't nearly as organized and complete.

Guys, w-what's Lord of the World?

>>11115671
Well I'm fascinated by a hidden leader ruling the world right now, but then the question arises why is the world in this state then. A question that always pops up when you bring up "hidden masters".

I'll check out the books.

>>11115685
The Black Stone which the Philosophers did not want to name

>>11115685
le roi du monde, also known as king of the world.
represented in multiple myths by prester john, joseph of arimathea, king arthur, king Barbarossa, and more recently (in the literal myth sense) Hitler

>>11115692
I suppose if there is, it's important to remember that the order in the world is a reflection of the primordial unity, in other words, order as harmony, as the reconciliation of different arrays of His light weaved into a fitting world that permits them being realized. For that reason, every disorder has its own function and purpose, just as war itself, being a restoration of order, is a disorder and terrible manifestation from a certain perspective. God, being the arbiter of peace and justice, punishes and reconciles. The disorder in the world and in the present state of things did not start yesterday or come out of nowhere. It was man who sinned and it is man who perpetuates his ignorance. Some more of this is talked about in Symbolism of the Cross. In other words, God reminds us that experience does not merely accumulate, it transpires. He distributes His justice as well as His peace.

>>11115741
Thanks, good posts.

>>11115213
none of the previous threads have been political, we've literally just talked about the ideas found in traditional literature

>>11113477
this is not a good guide, stop posting it

in fact it's just plain awful

>>11115502
original OP left and posted his email

>>11115769
Post your superior guide, then.

>>11115792
i don't have it on my phone, it's basically a massive wall of text. i didn't make it but it's vastly superior to the one posted here. im sure someone will have it

>>11115526
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGGejwE2XMM

>>11115796
Is this what you're talking about?

>>11115502
the original op left now all we have are anime posters and evolafags

>>11115811
that's the better one that should be posted for evola. that chart is a shit

>>11114594
Many of the posters here believe race exists on a spiritual level. It isn't a merely physical characteristic. A person's "spirit or essence" belongs to a racial/ethnic spiritual type as well.

>>11115811
Both charts suck, damnit. Aight, I'm making one nao

>>11115696
>joseph of arimathea
>lord of the world
Huh?

>>11115882
specifically the middle ages tradition, not the biblical accounts. He learned from Jesus the ways of the world and went to Britain to found a dynasty of wise rulers at the center of the world.
You need to also take into account it is almost always the center that matters for where the ruler ends up. Joseph ended up in Avalon, which was a central area

>>11113460
I've wanted to read Evola for a while, but the only way to buy his books where I live would be importing them online, which would cost like 200 bucks per book. So a question for those who've read him:
I've seen anons talking about how, on the subject of race, he says there are two different entities, body and soul, and the soul can be Aryan while the body is not, for example, and harmony happens when both body and soul match, and the soul chooses a body for a certain purpose. If he indeed does say that, a question:
- Does that mean a non white can have an "Aryan soul"? If it can, why would the soul choose that, given an Aryan soul would choose not to racemix? That means this Aryan soul would be forever trapped in a non Aryan body.

>>11115923
He calls the concept "race of the spirit", and I wouldn't get too hung up on outward form.

>>11115951
Can you elaborate? Claiming an Aryan soul can be in a non Aryan body would mean "soul suicide", in the sense it is doomed not to find harmony through body and soul matching. And if it chooses to racemix it is not an Aryan soul

>>11115869
Before anything read Guenon. At the minimum you must read:
- Intro to Hindu Doctrines
- Crisis of the Modern World
- Reign of Quantity
If you also want some insight into the differences between these thinkers read:
- Spiritual Authority and Temporal Power
As a bonus you can also read Sedgewick's book for background on Evola. For even more background on Evola, the English translation of Man Among the Ruins has an 100+ page intro about him, see:
http://cakravartin.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/julius-evola-men-among-the-ruins.pdf

There is what I call an "alternate start" for Evola. If you intend to be a "completionist" and really go through all his works, you may consider starting with Path of Cinnabar since he does an overview there himself. It's the equivalent of starting Nietzsche by reading Ecce Homo.

Now, to start with the actual Evola reccs, the absolute beginner book, and the one where his ideas are introduced in a really basic way is.......
- Introduction to Magic thought I was gonna say Revolt Against the Modern World, didn't you sucka?
The next most basic and accessible books are
- Metaphysics of War
- Meditations on the Peaks
I don't particularly recommend the latter, unless you're an uber-evola fanboy.

Next, go into one of his "expository works". Of those works, I don't recommend Hermetic Tradition because it's FUCKING dense. The most accessible one, and honestly probably one of his most interesting works is:
- Metaphysics of Sex

After that choose one or two more "expository" works, my reccs would be
- Yoga of Power (this is a good one if you want to see Evola at his maximum edginess, plus it's just a really good book) gas the pashus caste war now
- Doctrine of Awakening
And, sure, if you're REALLY interested in Celtic mythology and and grail legends then read Mysteries of the Grail, otherwise you will bore yourself to death.

You'll notice that I haven't recommended any of his political works yet. That's for the (what should be obvious) reason that these consist in APPLICATIONS of his traditionalist weltanschauung to the realm of politics, and it makes zero sense to start with application and then move on to theory. Before you read his more overtly political works read:
- Revolt Against the Modern World (this is like a bridge between his theory and application)
If you're one of the "completionists" then you will already know from Cinnabar that he basically all but disavowed "Heathen Imperialism" as being the well-meaning autism of a naive youth, so my personal opinion is that you can skip it entirely unless your one of the uber-fanboys or just want to read Evola for his edginess in which case disregard this list and just read Heathen Imperialism followed by Ride the Tiger for maximum edge.

Now you can read pretty much whatever is left in whatever order you like.

If anyone wants to turn this into a fancy schmancy looking chart, I fully support your efforts.

>>11115923
three races actually, which is common in most perennial and even non perennial philosophies.
The lowest form which is the physical, the soul which is the mind, and the spirit which is self explanatory.
Evola claimed it was necessary to have an aryan way of spirit and soul that will transfer outward onto the the physical plane when he was advising Mussolini. He said that since they have solar inner reflection, their outward self will appear better as well.
This goes against what the germans were doing which was physical perfection before mental and spiritual. However it is also a likelier chance for a healthy physical to attain naturally a healthier mental.
I think it can also show on the individual level as well over time, look at Qaddafi, looks normal when he first came to power and was normal. By the end he looked like shit and mentally was crazy.
or compare Coomaraswamy to Schuon, Coomaraswamy looks more "Aryan" than Schuon even though he is an indian while Shuon is actually a swiss-man. Coomaraswamy didn't have those strange things like vertical wives like Schuon did.

>>11115968

>>11115960
Sorry I only have half baked theories myself, even though the inward is signed on the outward, it goes beyond hair and skin color. Faces are probably a better indicator and understanding them is an esoteric science in itself (which I don't have system for).

If Sweden is so Aryan why are they the number on cuckstate right now?

There is also the notion that certain times attract certain souls, I'm not sure about how picky they are about their body, but being as we live in ugly times, might mean that there are a lot of ugly souls around right now? Then what does this mean about oneself? This line of thought can easily turn depressive I think, similar to pondering your election regarding salvation. But there is a path and a way, and if you are interested in these matters then you can certainly go for it.

>>11115467

Fuck. How do we be traditional in this day and age, /lit/? Move to Saudi Arabia? Even they swallowed the neoliberal pill wholesale.

>>11115968
Reading Intro to Magic right now and honestly I don't think i'd get through it without reading Grail first, but I'm only reading evola without reading Guenon first.

>>11115974
Physiognomy as legitimacy? And what are we to make of Rene Guenon's sickly appearance and health issues?

>>11115997
Go to medical school and move to Brunei? Great demand there and very wealthy monarchy

How is this book? I haven't picked up any of the arktos books by Evola, still going through the inner traditions works

>>11115989
>but being as we live in ugly times, might mean that there are a lot of ugly souls around right now?
I'd say the opposite. If the soul chooses where it goes to, an Aryan soul would choose hard times so it can prove itself. And I do want to go for it, the problem is, as I said before, around here the only way to buy Evola books is through Amazon.com, which means importing, which means 200 bucks for ONE book, and I need to read at least 5 or so of his to actually start understanding

>>11116004
I don't see many sick pictures of guenon in his youth, but if you were in the last thread you did see the triangles = squares chapter guenon wrote towards the end of his life. Besides that, he still looks like a normal guy

>>11115997
Two pieces of advice, one from Guenon and the other from Evola:
1. Attach yourself to an Orthodox tradition (you don't have to leave the West, at this rate it's pretty much pointless burger degeneracy has been exported everywhere)
2. Keep in mind the most important respect in which you should be traditional is inwardly, be detached from modernity on the inside.

>Saudi Arabia
They have never been traditional. They are fundamentalist, which is a religious form of reductionism. Fundamentalism is to traditionalism what, in Plato's Republic, Tyranny is to proper Kingship. Fundamentalism is even worse than degenerate liberal democratic enlightenment ideals.

>>11116007
He needs to be read in a certain sequence for you to truly understand it. See >>11115811
A lot of people misinterpret his work due to a wrong sequence

>>11115999
>without reading Guenon first.
there's your mistake. Backtrack now. Reading Guenon first is a must. Evola himself would have told you that.

>>11115997
Move to the countryside where you can build your own reality. A lot of people talk shit about him, but I've yet to see someone do this better than Varg

>>11116017
>triangles = squares chapter

I'm not familiar. Which book are you referring to? I've never seen anything about physiognomy in his writings and can't see how it has anything to do with metaphysics essentially

>>11116015
You can get the Hermetic Tradition as pdf online. Probably some of his other works too.
For a more Christian approach to the goal I can recommend Way to Christ by Jacob Boehme.

>>11115997
Active in the world and not of this world, searching for the grail as inner transformation.

>>11115974
Gaddafi looked like shit because of a failed surgery, so not a great analogy there.
The crux of what I'm saying is why would an aryan spirit/soul choose a non aryan body? It would CHOOSE not to be in harmony and be unable to function properly? Why would it choose a "wrong match"? It would be dooming itself

>>11116033
Given my interest in Evola, I thought it was self evident I'm not looking for "a more Christian approach".

>>11116025
i try but honestly i can't tell if it is pallis's translation or the original works but his writing is even more meandering and brushing around the subject than evola which was already hard enough to adapt to. I also got into evola from the esoteric right wing rather than just general metaphysics so evola mattered more to me
>>11116022
that's the way i'm going through evola, and that guy (wrote his own book btw) said that is still the best way to read evola when he finished every evola work.
>>11116031
Guenon didn't write on physiognomy as far as i know. I've mainly read his avalon related articles like land of the sun and such. But last thread someone posted a picture where guenon was explaining both triangles and squares make up four lines, which i think shows his health problems onto his writings.
Just read the primary source if you want
https://archive.org/stream/JuliusEvolaOnRace/JuliusEvolaOnRace_djvu.txt

>THIS IS THE PROPER WAY
>NO THIS
>NO NO YOU MUST READ IT LIKE THIS
Come on.

>>11116031
the autists going on about "muh traingles equales squares" are illterate brainlets. The "four lines" he is talking about when he says the triangle and square contain four lines are the lines of dots in the symbol of the tetrakys which is literally on the previous page

>>11116042
this isn't just a failed surgery, look at the way his hair is, his facial hair, the fact he slept in a bulletproof tent and was surrounded by only female guards

>>11116069
well the guy didn't explain it when he posted the picture

>>11116077
yeah, he was the one claiming it showed that guenon was senile or something. i.e. he is the illiterate brainlet im referring to

>>11116060
>explaining both triangles and squares make up four lines
stop being retarded
>>11116069

>>11116071
He was in a fucked up political situation mate, not exactly fair to say it's all internal

>>11116096
I'm saying it's a mix of both, like a snowball to an avalanche it will be the mind fucking up bringing his political situation worse bringing his mind down like a big cycle. But all cycles have larger and smaller variants and what evola was saying is that there can be a way to make it well.
>>11116092
already replied to that, and it's besides the point. Guenon did have other problems

>>11115923
Is it that the soul chooses the body, or the body is chosen for the soul? A subtle distinction, but one worth considering nonetheless.

An Aryan soul would only be in a non-Aryan body as the result of miscegenation. The Aryan soul being in the non-Aryan body can be viewed as another burden, like the burden of existing in the Kali Yuga.
>>11116047
Many Christians see value in Evola's thoughts.

>>11116116
the fact you could even entertain the belief for as long as a nanosecond that guenon may have possibly maybe claimed that a triangle is made up of four lines AND on top of that that the essay in which he made that claim would get published AND on top of that that it would get translated into english AND on top of that that it would get past the editors without them including some kind of footnote at the bottom, takes away any credibility from any future posts you might make. we are reaching levels of brainlet and incredulity that shouldn't even be possible

>>11116206
If an Aryan soul can be in a non Aryan body only through miscegenation, does that mean that when an Aryan body has a non Aryan soul it is necessarily because of the degeneration of an Aryan soul, and not because a non Aryan soul chose it? Or was chosen for it, for that sake. And if an Aryan soul is in a non Aryan body, regardless of how it got there, is it now doomed to forever be in a non Aryan body until it degenerates into a non Aryan soul? Because if it did look to mate for another person with an Aryan soul, there would be a corruption of this other person's Aryan body due to miscegenation.

>>11116042
>>11116342

Not the guys you're responding to, but there is a lot of confusion surrounding Evola's racialist views. I'm going to lay them out in a couple of posts and perhaps they can be drawn on from now on for these threads.

In Evola's writings, race of the body, or regularity of the phenotype, are features born out of feudal ties and national (in the etymological sense) selection as matter "formed" by institutions that embody certain ideas. All of the racialist stuff in Evola is a kind of inherited soul, a kind of psychological epigenetics, that he believes moral, intellectual and spiritual appetites are bred into the blood by culture as "form," that once those institutions are gone, the individual can possibly revitalize those qualities through instinct and physical preservation as long as revolutionary fervor ends and cross-breeding doesn't occur. War, conflict and tension can awaken those elements as an ethic and therefore spawn those institutions once again. Hence, a militaristic, disciplined and chivalric style of life always serves to renew and accentuate the spirit of the people.

For Evola, the core of traditional games and sacred actions was a renewal of the race, a revival of the ethic, phenomenology, and life of the victory of the spiritual, racial legacy, not taken in a mere biological sense. However, in a world where traditional institutions are gone, individuals have to rely on instinct and ethics rather than principles and traditional structures. Interbreeding can kill this possibility, and this is what Evola used to justify ethnocentrism of the Italians as they developed their African colonies. This is how Evola argues against miscegenation in a time of racialist fervor:
>"When it comes to this point [where civilization is no longer ordered "from above"], the only forces that can be relied upon are those of the blood, which still carries atavistically within itself, through race and instinct, the echo and the trace of the departed higher element that had been lost; it is only in this way that the "racist" thesis in defense of the purity of the blood can be validly upheld. . . . [W]e must never mistake the formative element for the element that is formed, nor the conditioning for the conditioned factor. (Revolt, 57-58)"

cont.

>>11116206
>>11116071
>>11116042
>>11116015
>>11115989
>>11115974
>>11115960
>>11115923
>>11115226
>muh race
>muh aryan souls
>muh miscegnation
when you worthless autists surpass in acheivement luminaries like ananda and rama coomaraswamy, both of whom were "miscegnated", you can maybe start to pontificate about your superior basement dwelling aryan souls. get this shit out of my thread. when will you brainlets ever learn

this shit is turning into evola general

>>11116042
>>11116342
>>11116362

cont.

According to Julius Evola, the danger in miscegenation is that the newly found individual will have different tendencies within himself, obscurely felt in peripheral sensations, appetites and proclivities. In a traditional society, the institutions and structures around him will serve to remind him of who he is. However, in decadence, the individual cannot rely on these structures and must find that infallible will that is central to his being, that formed the organization of the body in the first place. The original soul will always be the strongest force and will display in the phenotype, but it will be much more difficult for the individual to overcome "superfluities." In an occult way, one can evoke those energies and act on them directly, "forming" them. In fact, in Evola's conception of the Hermetic Dry Path, this is precisely what an ethical system is meant for, to dominate the infernal energies of bios and psyche. The Ride the Tiger maxim of finding - no, awakening - one's own law is inseparable from Evola's racialist thesis.

But the ideas and spirit that inform those institutions and ethics are superior to and antecedent to the regularity of the human organism:
>The traditional world knew “nationalities,” ethnicities and races only as natural facts, devoid of that specific political value . . . They represented a primary material differentiated by hierarchies and subject to a superior principle of political sovereignty. . . . these were often only the effect of a long formative process determined over centuries by a political center and its loyalist and feudal bonds . . . if it were no longer homelands and nations that united or divided, but rather ideas; if the decisive thing were not sentimental and irrational adhesion to a collectivizing myth, but a system of loyal, free, and strongly personalized connections. (RTT, Dissolution)"

Therefore, what is "Aryan" is the spirit and ethic of a person and by extension the civilization. The individual as he is and the ethnic group he belongs to is, strictly speaking, meaningless; it is mere material for the realization of the spirit and of the soul. Even in ancient Rome, as "dubious as the racial homogeneity of Rome in the origins may be, there is no question concerning the formative action this [suprahistorical, Northern-Aryan] force exercised on the “material” to which it was applied, elevating it to and differentiating it from what belonged to a different world. (Revolt, 265)"

>>11116373
>a thread about a thing discusses a relevant author
makes you think

>>11116362
>>11116379

So, the problem isn't as black-and-white as it seems. Was Evola a racialist? In a sense. His defense of racism might be considered more practical than strictly in principle. How could his ancient Rome be revived if his coevals were dancing to black jazz, watching American films and embracing platonically and sexually men and women of all colors in the new cosmopolitan modernity? But what Italians needed was not really a racial solidarity, but an ethical solidarity and a radical change of perspective about the course of the modern world. He saw the principle of chivalry as "the teaming up of warriors for a purpose higher than their own race, national interests, or territorial and political concerns [as] an external expression of the overcoming of all particularities, already an ideal of the Holy Roman Empire (Revolt 126)." Similarly, the Islamic Caliphate "through the holy war" forged "a unity typical of a race of the spirit, namely, the umma or 'Islamic nation.' (244)" Clearly, to Evola an aristocratic-conservative State with a political center of barons with knightly heritages is the sine qua non of the traditional world. This political ideal is a true form of culture that breeds men of spirit and race that aims at a "higher" type of life.

In short, the answer to your question is that whatever race you are born as is generally reflective of the elements in you that predominate the most. The central factor, the nucleus of the individual, is that infallible will that the individual ought to unite with in order to be himself. Just like how a woman can have some appetites and appearances of a masculine nature, from Evola's perspective her birth as a woman represents her most primitive and undefiled will and ought to denote a corollary ethic. But it is not essential in the sense that it is inherited from a domain that is non-human, a category of life that isn't ethnic, national, or individual; and in cases like Aryan Rome a new world-view, ethic and breed of people spawned almost out of nowhere like a whirlwind whose legacy was revived again by the Germanic element later on (Revolt, 290)

>>11116362
>>11116379
>>11116397

Some selections:
>"[T]he Northem-Aryan spirit was preserved in the Hellenic ideals of culture as “form” and cosmos that prevails over chaos (260)."
>"Nationalism acts upon [the] masses through myths and suggestions that are likely to galvanize them, awaken elementary instincts in them, flatter them with the perspectives and fancies of supremacy, exclusivism, and power. Regardless of its myths, the substance of modern nationalism is not an ethnos but a demos . . . In the context of modem nationalism what emerges is the previously mentioned inversion; the nation, the homeland, becomes the primary element in terms of being a self-subsisting entity that requires from the individual belonging to it an unconditional dedication, as if it were a moral and not merely a natural and “political” entity. Even culture stops being the support for the formation and elevation of the person and becomes essentially relevant only by virtue of its national character. (339)"
>"[I]n ancient Judaism we find a very visible effort on the part of a priestly elite to dominate and coalesce a turbid, multiple, and turbulent ethnical substance by establishing the divine Law as the foundation of its “form,” and by making it the surrogate of what in other people was the unity of the common fatherland and the common origins. From this formative action, which was connected to sacred and ritualistic values and preserved from the first redactions of the ancient Torah to the elaboration of the Talmuds, the Jewish type arose as that of a spiritual rather than a physical race. (243)"
>"The original and invisible seed of the “Roman race” actualized an inner formation of life with an ethos and a law that consolidated this meaning despite the continuous and subtle action of the opposite element. . . . The asceticism of “action” developed in the traditional forms that I mentioned before; it even permeated the articulations of the corporate organizations with a sense of discipline and military style (275)"

>>11116396
his main body of work is fine, but certain aspects of his works attracts brainlets, edgy kids, and autists the way a lump of turd attracts flies

>>11116397
>How could his ancient Rome be revived if his coevals were dancing to black jazz, watching American films and embracing platonically and sexually men and women of all colors in the new cosmopolitan modernity? But what Italians needed was not really a racial solidarity, but an ethical solidarity and a radical change of perspective about the course of the modern world. He saw the principle of chivalry as "the teaming up of warriors for a purpose higher than their own race, national interests, or territorial and political concerns [as] an external expression of the overcoming of all particularities, already an ideal of the Holy Roman Empire (Revolt 126)." Similarly, the Islamic Caliphate "through the holy war" forged "a unity typical of a race of the spirit, namely, the umma or 'Islamic nation.' (244)" Clearly, to Evola an aristocratic-conservative State with a political center of barons with knightly heritages is the sine qua non of the traditional world. This political ideal is a true form of culture that breeds men of spirit and race that aims at a "higher" type of life.
How can people take this shit seriously?

>>11116411
>"Clearly, to Evola an aristocratic-conservative State with a political center of barons with knightly heritages is the sine qua non of the traditional world."
>a timocracy is the sine qua non of the traditional world

>>11116442
>its a muh special snowflake europoor philosopher did everthing and everyone else was "influenced" by his monumentally "important" work episode

>>11116397
>Clearly, to Evola an aristocratic-conservative State with a political center of barons with knightly heritages is the sine qua non of the traditional world. This political ideal is a true form of culture that breeds men of spirit and race that aims at a "higher" type of life.

>>11116362
>In Evola's writings, race of the body, or regularity of the phenotype, are features born out of feudal ties and national

>>11116411
In a time where Evola's speculative philosophy, conservative politics and occult interests (remember his philosophical idea of the Absolute Individual found its place in Evola's conception of the monarch) required a racialist foundation to influence politics during a time of political and national despair and turmoil.

As for Evola's possible romanticizing of chivalry and the Ghibelline ideal, it is true that in most places and of most times a kind of quasi-feudal form of organization has always developed with a baronesque, militaristic political bond. In the beginning, that is. As a book on the History of Florence during the 1400s I have says, though, the aristocracy "is of course described as a pillar of uncompromising rectitude in mercantile dealings."

>>11116433
On page 38 he argues that they don't have to be educated or even literate

>>11116019
>Fundamentalism is to traditionalism what, in Plato's Republic, Tyranny is to proper Kingship.

>it's "Traditionalism"
>the only authors they can name as Traditionalists all lived in the modern era, 1800-2000AD

Why is it that nobody in my generation wishes to discuss the finer points in life, such as PC Gaming and combating degeneracy? Since when was having large useless muscles which will go away in 20 years seemingly more appealing to Aryan Women than being thoughtful, intelligent, and pure-blooded? Fucking degeneracy these days. It's all propaganda meant to destroy white civilisation. Aryan women no longer have nice non-threatening petite bodies like in Anime and Manga but have nasty fat chunky boobies and bottoms meant to appeal to niggers and degenerate brutes.

>black people wouldn't bully me if i had a big burly baron bro to protect me

WTF gsg????? girls at skool dont listen to me when I talk about PC Gaming and Praising Kek and instead go talk to all the 6'2+ Niggers (yes I said it what are you gonna do about it liberals) wtf is this shit?!???? degeneracy in action

>All that is solid melts into air, all that is holy is profaned, and man is at last compelled to face with sober senses, his real conditions of life, and his relations with his kind.

It's his 200th Birthday, pay your respects to him.

>>11116478
because literally everybody was a traditionalist before that

Looks like this thread is now being invaded by /leftypol/ indignation

>>11116206
>An Aryan soul would only be in a non-Aryan body as the result of miscegenation. The Aryan soul being in the non-Aryan body can be viewed as another burden, like the burden of existing in the Kali Yuga.

>>11116506
let them have their fun, they are only harming themselves

I am fuming, lads. Just the other day, I saw not one, not two, but TEN Interracial Couples (I keep a tally every day in my journal), all monkey male and degenerate trash white female combos.

When are we going to make a stand m8s? We must protect all that is dear in Western Civilization, such as Free Speech, PC Gaming, School Shooting, and Minecraft

>>11116471
>>11116460
no one knows who your pet favorite obscure academic is

Stand up, damned of the Earth
Stand up, prisoners of starvation
Reason thunders in its volcano
This is the eruption of the end.
Of the past let us make a clean slate
Enslaved masses, stand up, stand up.
The world is about to change its foundation
We are nothing, let us be all.

This is the final struggle

Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race.

There are no supreme saviours
Neither God, nor Caesar, nor tribune.
Producers, let us save ourselves,
Decree the common salvation.
So that the thief expires,
So that the spirit be pulled from its prison,
Let us fan our forge ourselves
Strike the iron while it is hot.

The State oppresses and the law cheats.
Tax bleeds the unfortunate.
No duty is imposed on the rich;
The rights of the poor is an empty phrase.
Enough languishing in custody!
Equality wants other laws:
No rights without duties, she says,
Equally, no duties without rights.

>>11116492

(you)

>>11116518
>no one knows who your pet favorite obscure academic is

>>11116518
>obscure
>coming from an Evola/Spengler/Peterson fanboy
LMAO

>>11116506
race autism is not traditional

>>11116017
he looks slightly malformed anon

>>11116522
>the passive aggressive (you) approach
Ah yes, the traditionalist stalwarts all seem to lack nuts for confrontation. Lack of testosterone, perhaps?

>>11116478
Celsus, Clement of Alexandria, Diogenes Laertius, St. Augustine, etc. all attest to a universal philosophy taught by priests of all nations. Inform yourself.

>>11116529
>he thinks Peterson is Evolian or Spenglerian

>>11116515
Indeed.

>>11116369
you know I specifically said coomaraswamy was more 'aryan' than schuon, right? did you notice that at all? and believing it's race is a dumbass move dipshit
>>11116265
i've read many badly edited works, hell i didn't even know see a lot of footnotes until i started getting into metaphysics and personally i haven't read much into guenon so i wouldn't know. I mainly study into pre-christian religions of germanic and celtic europe, so anything dealing with numbers could be normal for all i know

>>11116529
They are not that obscure. Sure, they aren't Justin Bieber tier pop stars, but that doesn't make then obscure. Anyway, Peterson is a Jungian pscyhological reductionist which has nothing to do with this thread, and Spengler is only tangentially related.

Daily reminder that the ideology of race was a product of the modern era, and that the ancients had neither a concept of race, nor of the nuclear family, and lived in extended families and experimented with sexual identities.

>>11116369
Traditionalism isn't in favor of miscegenation. Take your hurt feelies elsewhere, ignoramus.

>>11116538
>Inform yourself.

Ughhhh...fucking niggers are so brutish and testosterone fuelled..it's absolutely barbaric how big their muscles are compared to mine..dumb simple savages who are able to bench press thrice my weight and sprint 40 yards in 4 seconds should take up something more intellectual like PC Gaming and posting frog memes

so is this the power of the left? shitposting on a minuscule thread on a minuscule board? gee

>>11116540
in what meaningful sense was coomaraswamy aryan and why does it even matter

>B-B-BUT JAMAL THIS INFOGRAPHIC I FOUND ON THE INTERNET LITERALLY PROVES YOU ARE LITERALLY A LOW-IQ BRUTE PRONE TO SAVAGERY!!!

>>11116369
>>11116544
in addition,
It isn't good for a non-Aryan soul to be in an Aryan body, either. It isn't an assertion of superiority, it's a recognition that preservation of distinct types and harmony between body and soul are desirable.

>>11116553
>so is this the power of the left? shitposting on a minuscule thread on a minuscule board? gee

>>11116553
"so is this the power of the left? shitposting on a minuscule thread on a minuscule board? gee"

>>11116544
It's neither in favor nor against. Islam is the most popular tradition for traditionalists and Muslims do a ton of *gasp* """race-mixing""".

THIS THREAD BELONGS TO THE MAOIST FEMINIST GANG

>>11116564
stfu about muh aryan souls, there is literally no such thing

that was easily one of evola's most retarded ideas

>>11116561
aryan just means wise, and that shows physically.

>>11113509
racism is a fundamentally modernist idea
traditionalism is closer to "noble savage" sentiment honestly

>>11116580
>WrathOfGnon
not that Gnon

>>11116590
so just say wise, saying "aryan" just draws all the autists into the discussion rambling about muh aryan souls

>>11116564
>aryan souls
Traditionalist Discourse

You know I'm glad this thread turned to shit because having any cohesion with this stuff means the kali yuga is over too soon

>>11116590
aryan means noble and its a self designation for iranian and indian peoples you ignorant fool

>>11116564
>It isn't good for a non-Aryan soul to be in an Aryan body,
think i saw this episode of ancient aliens too mate

>>11116581

They couldn't survive socialism with a Chinese face.

Christ, you fucking idiots need to read some Rousseau.

>>11116604
>kali yuga

>>11116592
Except a commonly cited author for them, de Maistre, tortuously picked apart Rousseau's fantastic idea of the noble savage. Try again!

>>11116587
most traditionalists talked about the tripartite soul and how the second part of it is connected to your lineage

Looks like we triggered the /leftypol/ apes, fellas. Really, shitposting a thread for an incredibly obscure metaphysical philosophy school is abhorrent. You aren't fighting /pol/. You think you're punching Nazis but really you're just blaring airhorns outside of a church. Shame on you.

>>11116610
rousseau a shit

>>11116598
Well i use it in quotations first, and it's not really a bad word. It means more than just wise, it's all of your selfs and I's alligned in one spiritual upward trajectory.

>>11116612
try what again, rousseau is a fool, i never implied agreement with him and his childish pseudophilosophy

if you like ideas of race or nation go to natsoc general

>Looks like we triggered the /leftypol/ apes, fellas. Really, shitposting a thread for an incredibly obscure metaphysical philosophy school is abhorrent. You aren't fighting /pol/. You think you're punching Nazis but really you're just blaring airhorns outside of a church. Shame on you.

>>11116592
if you actually read Rousseau the noble savage was an independent Chad that didn't live with other people, not a bunch of hippies singing in a circle

in the discourse on inequality everything goes to shit as soon as people start living together

>>11116605
Yeah it means that, but we use Aryan for lack of a better proto-indo-european term, since it's cognate was also in the west with Eire of the Goidelics. It's more than just noble, mainly because noble nowadays degenerated into a mere class

His lips quivered,"I'm a Traditionalist," he said.
"A traditionalist? so are you a Catholic?"
"N-no"
"Evangelical?"
"N-no I was raised Atheist"
"So... erm... what do you 'Traditionalists' do then?"
"Errr.."
And he drove home the next day, watched YouTube videos by BlackPigeonSpeaks and Sargon of Akkad, played video games for six hours, watched anime, and talked with his other "ironic" friends on Discord who all also read Evola.

>>11116621
>le triggered
So we are at /pol/ then?

>>11116621
Sometimes I worry about the Peterson crowd appropriating Traditionalist ideas without perusal. Yet, every time I run into these people I am astonished at how caustic, bitter and unwilling to discuss they are. The savage of our times

>>11116627
You know nothing of which you purport to

>>11116644
>le
Go back.

>>11116369
It's about self preservation, nobody claimed to be superior to someone like Ananda. Perhaps you should learn not to be fragile like the common Stacy

>>11116659
>le donald trump
So we are at /pol/ then?

>>11116636
it means noble as an adjective
there was no such pie term in that context, indo-iranians have a lot of specifics they aquired through evolving and contact with other cultures

>>11116650
peterson is not a traditionalist in any sense, he is just selling boomer ideology to people who will never get to live like boomers, it's going to end badly and people will get more radicalized when he falls

at least he may get some people into church even though he is an atheist

>>11116660
Perhaps you should learn not to be fragile like the common Stacy
t.cant bench press his own weight at 90lbs

>>11116668

see >>11116580

>>11116621

Don't give them the satisfaction. Post stuff that triggers them if you need to.

But Yes, people ITT realize they'll get shitposted to death in /pol/ and have to go for low-hanging fruit.

I actually have respect for leftist philosophy but this is just sad.

>>11116660
>It's about self preservation, nobody claimed to be superior to someone like Ananda. Perhaps you should learn not to be fragile like the common Stacy

>>11116650
>You know nothing of which you purport to
back to /pol/, this is a serious board,
racism and nationalism are incompatible with traditionalism
>>11116637
i meant noble savage as its typical romanticist image, not in conext of rousseau's work

>>11116641
this thread precisely
with a lot of demented stormfaggery added

>>11116680
>Don't give them the satisfaction. Post stuff that triggers them if you need to.
Win the meme war brother!!

>post stuff that triggers them if you need to.
triggers are a spook, just like metaphysics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Ien1qo_qI

>>11116680
>trigger
Hello, is this /pol/?

>>11116675
like that guy has any clue of what traditionalism is
he is some kind of a "woke" pop nationalist who doesnt have a single clue on philosophy

https://youtu.be/KECHYb0BhXA

Anyone familiar with Seraphim Rose here? Can I start with Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future right away, or should I read some of his earlier works first?