/lit/ - Literature

Do you consider traditionalism "alt-right"

>>11099498
Evola and his group mainly, but more far-right than alt-right. Especially with his anti-christian thoughts, even the NatSocs don't like to do that too often and when they do it's mainy kike on a stick arguments

>>11099498
forgot to mention here >>11099516 about Serrano who read all of Guenon, Evola, and Schuon, but he's pretty cooky in my opinion

>>11099498
alt-right and fascism in general are populist mass movement, traditionalism is not a mass movement

does anyone have sources for lengthy discussions by any of the above re: psychedelics?

i just read a long essay by a sort of cosmonaut type that tries to explain why eliade neglected them in his descriptions of ancient traditions and rituals, particularly the mysteries.

in my experience, mention of ecstatic states, and especially psychedelics, are shyed away from; they are taken for granted as existing, but their actual performance, or the exact methods of their achievement, are often passed over as if the answers were evident. i understand this may be a reluctance on their part to divulge certain information to the uninitiated, but are there texts in which psychedelics and other ecstatic states are discussed, compared, described, prescribed, etc.?

what's the difference between realization and initiation? what are some possible "realization" paths?

>>11099560
psychedelics are a passive method, so probably more related with mysticism than with initiation that is an active path

Evola mentions something about intoxicants in The Yoga of Power, but not about psychedelics i think

>>11099498
people will get butthurt with you, but the politics of traditionalism is interesting and should be discussed. not just the larpers who use evolas edginess, but the alliances some of the personalities have to this day, and the more ancient relationship between tradition and sovereignty. see: nasr and neoconservatism, or prince charles’ videos about traditionalism. most people want to sweep the politics under the rug as unimportant, and yet are simultaneously encouraged by rabid anti-modernity and all that entails.

>>11099560
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sFQFoIMHP0
Thomas goes into Evolas thoughts on psychedelics about 9 minutes in, but the whole video is more about drinking

>>11099577
not so much ignore politics, but most traditionalists encourage the politics of secession and becoming worthy, instead of mixing yourself with what's too degenerate to save

creating a true elite is the only thing that can regenerate a society if we truly hit the bottom of this cycle and a new golden age is started

>>11099546
What stops traditionalism from becoming a mass movement?

>>11099617
tradition is hierarchical, what the masses think is irrelevant

>>11099597
all im saying is that outside of the ideas of traditionalism (might be all that concerns you), there are interesting connections to worldly and active political bodies among the individual personalities mentioned in the original post. this is especially true of anything touching modern ‘western’ sufism.

>>11099617
because in order to understand it you have to put down the vidya and tv and read dense books

>>11099665
That's true of every ideology ever.

>>11099488

Here's a short text on the exoteric-esoteric distinction:
http://www.fatuma.net/text/Haqiqa_and_Sharia_in_Islam_by_Rene_Guenon.pdf

Here's an exchange of letters between an Islamic Traditionalist and a Christian critical of traditionalism, specifically debating over the idea of non-dualism (I particularly enjoyed this exchange):
http://www.sacredweb.com/online_articles/sw17_bolton-upton.pdf

For a basic intro to Islam from a traditionalist standpoint (more of a conceptual overview than a practical one):
>"Islam and the Destiny of Man" by Charles Le Gai Eaton (pic related)
>"Islam: Ideals and Reality" by Seyyed Hossein Nasr
Are two great introductions from traditionalists.

Also check out this list by Abdal Hakim Murad (aka Tim Winter):
https://splendidpearls.org/2015/03/30/shaykh-abdal-hakim-murads-book-recommendations/

Another resource you might want to look into are online lectures. Some people to look out for on youtube:
- Hamza Yusuf
- Abdal Hakim Murad (Tim Winter)
- Ali Ataie
- Jonathan AC Brown

Here are some helpful videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60JboffOhaw [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no5RCHRbknk [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gi1EwbQHTVg&t=1154s [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VUwBvJF9vY [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD5hNos1eJM [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZlEtV0rDPA [Embed]
>Foundations of Islam Series by Hamza Yusuf
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7DDC6E4A27E031CC
>Understanding Islam Series by Abdal Hakim Murad
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL85C4200AAB2EDAFB


>An interesting paper investigating whether the Quran contains the doctrine of non-dualism, to which the author argues yes.
http://www.perennialfoundation.org/resources/Documents/PDFs/Peter%20Samsel%20-%20Islam%20and%20the%20Vision%20of%20Non-Duality%20(1).pdf

>Sufism and Taoism by Toshihiko Izutsu (book was praised by Nasr)
https://archive.org/stream/ToshihikoIzutsuSufismAndTaoism/Toshihiko%20Izutsu%20-%20Sufism%20and%20Taoism#page/n1/mode/2up

>essay on Neoplatonism in Islamic philosophy
http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ip/rep/H003.htm

>>11099488

Adi Shankara's Prasthanatrayi commentaries (his most important works)

>Commentary on 8 of the Muhkya Upanishads part 1
https://archive.org/details/EightUpanishadsWithSankarabhashyamSwamiGambhiranandaVol11989

>Commentary on 8 of the Muhkya Upanishads part 2
https://archive.org/details/EightUpanishadsWithSankarabhashyamSwamiGambhiranandaVol21966

>Brahma Sutra Bhasya (commentary) of Shankaracharya
https://archive.org/details/BrahmaSutraSankaraBhashyaEngVMApte1960

>The Bhagavad-Gita with commentary of Shankaracharya
https://archive.org/details/Bhagavad-Gita.with.the.Commentary.of.Sri.Shankaracharya


Adi Shankaras non-commentary Prakarana Granthas (philosophical treatises)

>Atma Bodha (Self-knowledge)
http://www.lovebliss.eu/Download/Atma%20Bodha.pdf

>Upadesasahasri (A Thousand Teachings)
http://estudantedavedanta.net/Sri_Shankaracharya-Upadeshasahasri%20-%20Swami%20Jagadananda%20%281949%29%20[Sanskrit-English].pdf

>Aparokshanubhuti (Direct experience)
https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.216548

>Vivekachudamani (Crest Jewel of Discrimination)
https://ia800108.us.archive.org/18/items/Vivekacudamani/Vivekacudamani.pdf


Non-Adi Shankara Advaita texts

>Voga Vasistha
https://archive.org/details/VasisthasYoga

>The Ashtavakra Gita
https://realization.org/p/ashtavakra-gita/richards.ashtavakra-gita/richards.ashtavakra-gita.html

>The Ribhu Gita
https://archive.org/stream/RibhuGitaRamaMoorthyH./Ribhu%20Gita%20%20Rama%20Moorthy%20H.%20#page/n1/mode/2up

>Avadhuta Gita
https://www.holybooks.com/wp-content/uploads/Song-of-the-Avadhut-by-Dattatreya.pdf

>Advaita Bodha Deepika (The lamp of non-deal knowledge)
https://selfdefinition.org/ramana/Advaita-Bodha-Deepika.pdf

>Drg-Drsya-Viveka (An inquiry into the Nature of the 'Seer' and the 'Seen')
https://vivekananda.net/PDFBooks/Others/DrgDrsyaViveka1931.pdf

>The Tripura Rahasya (Mystery Beyond the Trinity)
https://www.beezone.com/Ramana/tripura%20rahasya.pdf


Ashtavakra Gita for the TLDR, Adi Shankara's commentaries + Yoga Vasistha can be considered core texts, Shankara's non-commentary works and the other non-Shankara texts complement the core ones

>>11099560
Guenon in 'Studies in Hinduism' goes a bit into Soma and talks about how it was an important part of ceremony/realization and at one point makes some comment about how the loss of Soma tied into setting the stage for the Kali Yuga and that rediscovering Soma will play a roll in the inauguration of a new age/resetting of the cycle when Kalki arrives.

Evola as far as I'm aware is the only traditionalist that explicitly talks about psychedelics. Guenon was known to be a user of opium and I think hashish too, he once described opium as an aid to meditation. In my understanding a traditionalist position on them would be that meaningless abuse of them is obviously unwholesome, but that in cases where there is a tradition of using them in ceremonial/ritual settings as an adjunct to spiritual realization there can be legitimate usage of them; at least so long as the proper perspective is maintained and they are not taken as ends in themselves. It's not for no reason that hashish is widely smoked by sadhus across India and Nepal and that the people there don't consider that a violation of how a sadhu should behave.

So how does one determine which tradition one should follow

>>11099560
It’s not what you’ve asked for, but an interesting thing to note is that Iran’s supreme leader recently had a commission study psychedelics, after which he made their use legal in Iran.

I’d also be interested to hear an answer outside of paychedelics, re: discussions of ecstatic states in a broader sense (meditation, yoga, dance, song, asceticism, sexual practices, etc.)

>>11099830
other people here will say unbroken tradition. I say whatever is the tradition of your people

>tfw you lived to see a Tradition general on /lit/

this is good

>>11099830
If you're a westerner :
Catholicism
Orthodoxy
Islam
Those are the one made for you. Don't bother trying to be Hindu or Buddhist you can't.

>>11099835
>It’s not what you’ve asked for, but an interesting thing to note is that Iran’s supreme leader recently had a commission study psychedelics, after which he made their use legal in Iran.

It was not Iran's supreme leader (Khamenei) but a grand ayatollah, which is a similarly highly ranked religious authority in Shia Islam. He did not make their recreational use legal in Iran, but merely said that the medicinal/therapeutic usage of them under the supervision of qualified experts was halal. This did not in itself make them legal, but opens the door for Iran to allow for that to happen later on. If someone was arrested for doing psychedelic therapy in Iran they could conceivably challenge it in court and use his ruling to win the court case; but presumably for someone to count as a 'qualified expert' there would have to be some sort of regulatory oversight agency existing first which could license them; which there isn't for psychedelics in Iran right as far as I'm aware.

>I’d also be interested to hear an answer outside of paychedelics, re: discussions of ecstatic states in a broader sense (meditation, yoga, dance, song, asceticism, sexual practices, etc.)

Honestly just read Guenon and to some extent Evola, in their books they at length talks about how accessory practices can be legitimate alternatives themselves to or supports to be used in the aid of the direct path of knowledge, ultimately arriving at the same goal.

>>11099830
Think very hard for a moment. Which country is your fatherland and which people are your people?

>>11099868
why be anything semitic? I'd say Hinduism is closer in spirit than catholicism is because of their origins

>>11099830

You can become Hindu or Buddhist, ignore what the other anon said, it's just that if you want to participate wholeheartedly you would have to move to a country where they practice those religions, learn the language, integrate in the culture, start attending their religious gatherings and study under a local teacher. Difficult but not impossible.

>inb4 a bunch of rehashed posts about how you can't convert to Hinduism

There is no formalized orthodox method of conversation as their is with Islam but history has known times where Hindu mass conversion/proselytism occurred (see SE Asia and Indonesia). Caste is meant to be based on someones innate qualities anyway so not being born into a caste due to being a westerner is not a huge deal. Certain Hindu sects do initiate non-Hindus.

If you are a decent looking western man who is fluent in a modern dialect like Hindi/Gujarati/Marathi etc who also understands Sanskrit and who has extensively studied the Hindu texts and doctrines you will be treated super well by Indians and upper-caste Indian women will be all over you (at least in the big cities).

>>11099917
You cannot "become" an Hindu. You're born Hindu or you're not. It's the same for Shintoism.
Like it or not but "semitic religions" for some reasons God only knows are accessible to all mankind.
There's no reason to say Hinduism is closer to truth than christianity other than a false sense of elitism. Sure it's expressed differently but at the end of the day the goal is the same.
Worse : Christianity and Islam are actually the easiest path to attain paradise.
In Hinduism and "ancient religions" only initiate could hope to reach Hiranyagarbha (the equivalent of the christian paradise)

Consider the parable of the 11th hour. The workers of the last hour (us) get the same salary as everyone else despite the meager work they did. There's a reason why Jesus Christ is considered the "savior"

>>11099948
I wasn't saying that it is closer to the truth, but rather closer in spirit to the european mind due to the fact that the ancient vedic teachers were in fact indo european and still retain lots of that symbolism while catholicism seemed to adopt a little but remove a lot of symbolism and spiritual feel.

>>11099944
what about tattoos in hindusim? I got one on my chest from my hermetist days

Can someone better-versed in Guenon help make his distinction between psychoanalysis and tradition clearer. There’s an entire chapter in Symbols of the Sacred Science titled Tradition and the ‘Unconscious’ devoted to the topic, but I’m still just not sure I’ve grasped what about his characterizations is so fundamentally different...

Really appreciate any help in clearing up exactly how he’s characterized the two and how that makes them diametrically opposed. Tried to paste the passage but it’s a bit long; pdf is the first search result though if you’d like to read.

>>11099991
It was probably the case at the beginning but time has passed and the average european (even the ones from 2000 years ago) is too different mentally to fully subscribe to Hinduism.
Now I can't really quote him because his letters were not translated in english (I'm french so I got the chance to read everything he's done) but Guenon said Christianism is really the best religion possible for an european. It was basically made for them. There's a reason why christianity swarmed all over europe to replace the degenerate (in a non-meme meaning) paganism of the roman empire.

People tend to romanticize Hinduism here but they should ask themselves why Guenon who understood it more than anyone didn't become Hindu himself (and he had several occasions)

>>11099906
in what books does guenon discuss specific ecstatic techniques and their performance?

>>11100030
I'm re-reading the chapter and I'll try to explain it to you.

>>11099996
There isn't a widespread attitude against tattoos in India like there is in Japan. Henna temporary tattoos have been used as a form of bodily decorations in India since at least the 1st millennium. If it's on your chest there shouldn't be that many occasions when people would see it anyway outside of swimming or going shirtless at religious festivals. Most Indians would not be surprised since assuredly you're not Indian, they would just chalk it up as another foreign style/cultural thing. Some extremely conservative/orthodox religious figures might disapprove a bit just as a matter of attitude if you personally tried to study under them but it's highly unlikely to cause any problems for you.

>>11100042
>>11100030
Didn't need to after all. I remember.
Basically psychoanalysis say the same thing as "traditionalism" on the surface which means :
All symbols are fundamentally the same and are a proof of religions having a deeper meaning than just "coping with reality"
The problem is that psychoanalysis put the origins of these symbols in the "collective unconscious of mankind"
Basically it means that the symbols do not come from heaven, from God but they come from the darkest parts of the human mind.
It's subversion. It's literal satanism because it's putting God below.
And Guenon explains that sometimes people who are mentally sick end up reproducing things that DO look like genuine symbols but in a caricatural way.
And to him that's the sign of a satanic influence. There is a saying in french that says "Satan est le singe de Dieu ( satan is god's monkey) which means the infernal influence often try to imitate spirituality to lead people astray better.
And C.G Jung and his psychoanalysis is a perfect example, even if he's not aware of that himself

>>11099944
There's a lot of Hindu temples that would not let you in if you're a white giy because they assume you have no caste hence untouchable. From what I've heard.

>>11100065
>>11100030
TL;DR :
Tradition : Symbols and religion come from God
Psychoanalysis : Symbols and religion come from the subconscious.

And trust me. You do not want to mess with your subconscious.

>>11099948
Hiranyagarbha is the world egg, has nothing to do with paradise

>>11099948
>Consider the parable of the 11th hour. The workers of the last hour (us) get the same salary as everyone else despite the meager work they did. There's a reason why Jesus Christ is considered the "savior"
elaborate on this

>>11099912
The only honest answer I can give to this question is the United States. My jewropean ancestors are quite distant now and came from britain and various places in central europe so I have no real connection to any particular place there

>>11100090
It's too long for me to quote but basically read "Man and his becoming"
And the chapter the divine journey of the being"
Here a screenshot and you will understand

>>11100099
If you study Hinduism, buddhism, Shinto and so on you will find out than the common people, even if they do follow the tradition will never go to "paradise"
They won't go to hell, but basically their soul will go to a place analogous to "the sphere of the moon" where they will stay a little bit and then they will be begin another existence in a state analogous to the human state.
This is what created the misconception about "reincarnation"
It is written on the book where I took the screenshot. Basically it's the "pitri-yana" the way of the ancestors.
Christianity and Islam however, do better. By believing in Christ/Muhammad's message and following religion you get to actually reach paradise... And you will stay there until the very end where God will absord everything into Him.
Basically it's an easy ticket to salvation.

So how does it relate to the parable of the 11th hour?
Well. Those who worked during the day were the ancient humanities and past religions. They had to do a lot of work to reach paradise.
The workers of the 11th hour are us. They get to have the same salary for a small bit of work. Basically believing, praying and being a good person. This is really what it means.
I forgot who said it, but it was a saint. And he said that during the Kali-yuga saying the name of God was as powerful and worthy as years of devotion during the golden age

(sorry if my writing is awkward. I'm an ESL)

>>11100083
Thank you. What would Guenon say if, rather than a psychological ‘subconscious’, the symbols were proposed as outgrowths from the common structures of the human brain (put there by god)?

>>11100170
I can"t speak for Guenon. But from my own opinion I'd say it's valid. After all the brain is meraly a "terminal" that our soul use to communicate.
However. I remember him saying that symbols speak directly to the Heart (in a metaphysical sense) and not to the discursive reason.

I wouldn't be scared of psychoanalysis if I were, there's good to pick up in everything, just be careful not to confuse what is psychism and what is spiritual.

>>11100035
He generally talks about the relation between mainstream and non-standard paths in 'Introduction to Hindu Doctrines' and goes into some of them in depth like Kundalini and Tantra in 'Studies in Hinduism', Evola also wrote books on sex and yoga.

>>11100030
According to his view psychoanalysis is constituting the lowest for the highest. The aspects of the contingent self like the unconcious, ego and so on that psychoanalysis holds up as the tool to truly understanding the self is in reality only another aspect of the individual self which is strictly illusionary (when considered in relation to the supreme principal). I recommend studying Advaita, in particular Guenon's 'Man and his Becoming' where he goes into all of this in detail (this particularly in the second chapter 'fundamental distinction between the self and ego). Studying Advaita helps one understand all of Guenon's ideas because virtually all of them are fundamentally in accordance with Advaitic teachings. Guenon holds that the ultimate metaphysics of all the traditions is the same but also writes in his books that Advaita is one of the purest expressions of Metaphysics, by extension studying it can help you understand the rest. It's with this in mind that Frithjof Schuon says (discounting the weird cult stuff for a moment, it's just a good quote)

>-'The Vedānta contained in the Upaniṣads, then formulated in the Brahma Sūtra, and finally commented and explained by Śaṅkara, is an invaluable key for discovering the deepest meaning of all the religious doctrines and for realizing that the Sanātana Dharma secretly penetrates all the forms of traditional spirituality'

Brahman can be considered (in a relative sense) as being divided into the unmanifest and the manifest; although the unmanifest is more real than the manifest in the sense that it contains all possibilities, including all those contained within the manifest. Brahman comprises both the manifest and the unmanifest. The manifested aspect of Brahman is Ishvara (the divine being/universal manifestation), Ishwara not being the extent of Brahman, but Brahman in so far as being Brahman manifested. Everything in existence or everything that is manifest is Ishvara, Human beings included. Ishvara is permeated everywhere by Atman which is fundamentally the same as Brahman; at the core of living beings is Atman, the only real aspect of them and that which gives every other aspect of the being its significance and meaning, without Atman there would be nothing real left. Psychoanalysis considered from this perspective limits itself to the strictly illusionary, contingent and conditioned aspect of the being which is the complete opposite of the one real aspect of it, namely unconditioned omnipresent Atman/Brahman.

>>11100058
nice to know, also those are some nice tattoos. She's a qt too

>>11099498
No.

>>11099868
I'm Germanic and Slavic. Why can't I adopt Germanic/Slavic paganism?

does anyone else see in guenon’s attacks on mysticism in preference of intiation something like wittgensteins private language argument?

>>11100247
Because those traditions are dead. The spirit has left them. The only thing that might still be "alive" in those traditions are psychic corpses and you don't want to mess with them.
Unlike what /pol/arpers will tell you about "the ebin dead kike on a stick" christianity was a present from God to europeans.
Paganism had degenerated into superstitions.
Trying to make it alive again is foolish at best, dangerous at worst (because of the psychic influences)

If you want to know more about it read "Reign of the quantity and signs of the time" by guenon
The chapter named "PSYCHIC
RESIDUES "
http://rexresearch.com/articles2/ReneGuenonReignofQuantity.pdf

>>11100079
>There's a lot of Hindu temples that would not let you in if you're a white giy because they assume you have no caste hence untouchable. From what I've heard.

It's a mistake to assume that being outside the caste system is the same as untouchable. Nevertheless it doesn't surprise me that some temples would not want people inside them who appear to have no caste and presumably are not Hindu but that's actually totally irrelevant to anything. Not being allowed in some temples is not in the least a problem. Not being able to enter certain temples has no bearing at all upon realization of the supreme truth; which is a path that individuals must pursue on their own outside of any contingencies such as visiting certain locations.

Caste is useful insofar as it is Dharma applied to social organization and society but caste no longer becomes relevant to one who has recognized and understood the supreme truth. Brahmin and Dalit alike are permeated by the same Atman, which is in all of them and everywhere the same; being the only real aspect of anything. It's explicitly with this in mind that Shankara declares in Upadesasahasri that it's wrong to treat another poorly because of their caste. For someone who has tread the path of knowledge or who is currently on it; how they would be treated by Indians is totally irrelevant, Indians who would not treat a western well for being outside the caste system are doing so in accordance with contingent views and attitudes which are nil in relation to the truth; so it shouldn't bother you in the least. One should understand that people are just following a relative viewpoint and then move on without caring at all.

>>11100247
do this http://www.gornahoor.net/?p=8090 instead, reviving pure paganism is impossible although it does still have spirit despite what others say

>>11100288
>although it does still have spirit despite what others say
And where is the proof in that?
What little spirit it had left was integrated into christianity (The Arthurian tales being the prime example)

>>11100285

>One, who is eager to realize this right knowledge spoken of in the Sruti, should rise above the desire for a son, for wealth, for this world and the next, which are described in a five-fold manner, and are the outcome of a false reference to the Self of Varna and orders of life. These references are contradictory to right knowledge, and reasons are given by the Srutis regarding the prohibition of the acceptance of difference. For when the knowledge that the one non-dual Atman is beyond phenomenal existence is generated by the scriptures and reasoning, there cannot exist a knowledge side by side that is contradictory or contrary to it.

—Upadesha Sahasri 1.44

>>11099684
incredible post. thank ye very kindly based af anon.

>>11099917
catholicism is pretty much european paganism with a cross

>>11100170
The symbols are not outgrowths of the common structure of the brain. The brain is a physical thing, and thus part of the world of Becoming. Symbols point toward the world of Being, to an extent symbols are a part of the world of Being.

I get the sense that you aren't familiar with Plato. Understanding Plato helps immensely in understanding Traditionalism.

The traditionalist school was a critical part of my intellectual development, but I'm fast becoming convinced that it fails to properly grapple with Graeco-Roman paganism which is a pretty big problem for me since my area of interest is Greek philosophy.

>>11099944
is the guy on the right legit?
http://dharmacentral.com/acharya.html

according to this he was ordained by Vaishnava Acharya Bhakti Rakshaka Sridhara Swami, but i know nothing about who that is or how hindu lineages work

>>11100165
>Those who worked during the day were the ancient humanities and past religions. They had to do a lot of work to reach paradise.
>The workers of the 11th hour are us. They get to have the same salary for a small bit of work. Basically believing, praying and being a good person. This is really what it means.
Muhammad (pbuh) has a similar saying. See pic related.

>>11100369
Have you read "Revolt Against the Modern World"? I thought Evola's description of Greek paganism and philosophizing to be pretty fair. Perhaps a bit uncharitable to their philosophical endeavors, but not "wrong" exactly.

>>11100325
Plenty of traditions still exist, and it never died out completely in the Baltics, or rural parts of the Ukraine.
Plus it didn't die out in many places until very very late, so close in fact that may orders exist claming heritage for it. Paganism in greece for example, was still being practiced until the fall of Byzantium, and in Sweden it was known that there were practices until the 1700's, both of these examples have orders (degenerated now of course) that are of that unbroken line you guys worry so much about

>>11100377
Indeed!
It's a very good quote anon. Thank you.

>>11100247
See : >>11100351
Same for Orthodoxy to be honest. There is a beautiful orthodox tradition you shouldn't neglect. It might not be as outwardly "virile" as paganism but there is a great nobility in knowing how to wield a sword and not use it.

>>11100380

I have and I liked it.
The problem, as I see it, is that the 'Greek religion' was diffused, eclectic, and decentralized. Can we really say that all of it was the unfolding of a single divine revelation?

>>11100372
In terms of religious qualification he seems legit enough, I guess. I've seen some of his lectures and he has a typical Vaishnava sense of superiority. It's like he just can't conceive that one of the other deities could also be taken as an image of the Supreme. Still, that doesn't make him unorthodox, it's quite normal for follower's of a particular "sect" to think their's is the best one.

>>11100396
>Can we really say that all of it was the unfolding of a single divine revelation?
I don't understand the relevance. Extrapolate.

>>11100372
>http://dharmacentral.com/acharya.html

I would say 80%-90% legit at a minimum, possibly 99%-100%. I've watched a few of his interviews, nothing he says is incorrect. He has apparently studied the scriptures under a qualified guru, his website has a bunch of quotes from various Indian/Hindu public figures praising him.

I'm a little hesitant about that he would go on red-ice radio, but on the other hand one could see it as being truly non-discriminating insofar as being willing to spread and talk about Dharma with anyone anywhere. I haven't read his Dharma manifesto book. If it's a bunch of sentimental moralistic political views then I would say he isn't legit but if it's actually a consideration of how the highest principle and Dharma could be applied to the modern politics of the west than he could be correct, idk as I haven't read it. My impression is for the most part positive.

>>11100410

Cutsinger speaks of religion as a set of beliefs and practices that are intended to bring their adherents into union with God.

Did the Greeks have one religion, or did they have dozens?

OP, in the last thread a thinker named Wolgang Smith was mentioned. I think he should be added to the list of traditionalists in the OP.

>>11100464
Wolfgang*

>>11100369
I agree with this post >>11086363 some anon made in the last thread. There are good aspects of it and Neoplatonism is remarkably similar to Advaita; but ultimately the best aspects of it were fragmented, not widely taught and passed out of history instead of being passed down to the present day; the best thing about what happened to it was that some of it was marginally absorbed into Christianity and Islam. If it had properly been developed, safeguarded and passed down then it might had some real potential but now it's just another chapter in history. Maybe it could be revived in it's home but Eastern Orthodox seems pretty deeply engrained in Greek culture at this point.

>>11100435
Hi, i was in the previous thread and i'm still looking for his book "Dharma Manifesto", if anyone has the link i would appreciate it. I don't want to give him my shekels.

>>11100483
I'm just over halfway through reading the Enneads, and it feels almost identical to reading a book by Guenon. It really hits home how tight Guenon was about the universality of metaphysics. The parallels are overwhelming (and the parallels with Christianity are blowwing my mind).

>>11100452
Greek Paganism was the product of several opposing spiritual currents, according to Evola. Some aspects of the "religion" hit the nail on the head, some aspects were "subversive" or the product of "degeneration". I don't think it's a good idea to think about it as a unified cohesive religious worldview. There's a reason it didn't stand the test of time.

Compare Greek contributions to Christianity to Greek Paganism's influence on the European psyche.

>>11100491
>tight
right*

Guenon is pretty tight tho, nawmsayin'?

>>11100491
Can you mention any particular parallels that you liked?

>>11100483
Also, I would note at various points in his books Guenon notes the traditional character of the Neoplatonists and Pythagoreans and highlights instances where Plato and even Aristotle got stuff right, but he never considers these things/people on the same level as established traditions like Hinduism/Daoism/Islam.

>Plato was the supreme articulator of classical metaphysics

>>11100502
I would definitely love to go through my notes and post some, but I have to head over to the mosque for jumaa prayer. Later when I get back, inshallah.

>>11100505
>but he never considers these things/people on the same level as established traditions like Hinduism/Daoism/Islam

Is the idea then that the Greek strains were under-developed or that they didn't properly congeal into a unified body? Did the typical Roman citizen have ready access to salvation? Did his religious practices have a body of doctrine and ritual. Did they have an esoteric core? How meaningful a comparison can we even draw between the Greeks and the Muslims?

>>11100506
Evola mentions Plato a bit in his Hermetic Tradition and states that a lot of what he was saying was in itself symbolic. Also he criticized Eliade for not being Traditional enough after ww2 when they were friends in the 30's

>>11100531
eliade >>>>>>>>>>>>evola

>>11100521
>Is the idea then that the Greek strains were under-developed or that they didn't properly congeal into a unified body?

Both but also more broadly that they were not part of an established tradition dating back to a widely agreed-upon original non-human origin (Muhammad and Gabriel, the Sruti etc)

>Did the typical Roman citizen have ready access to salvation? Did his religious practices have a body of doctrine and ritual. Did they have an esoteric core? How meaningful a comparison can we even draw between the Greeks and the Muslims?

From what I understand the formal Roman religious practices were somewhat ritualistic and devoid of profound metaphysical teachings, hence the immense popularity of mystery cults in the Roman Empire as people searched for something that fulfilled that need. I don't believe there was much of an established esoterism outside of the mystery cults. The difference with Islam is that there is an established esoterism in Islam (to a large extent but not entirely limited to Sufism) that is an orthodox part of the larger tradition and fairly widespread; along with various sects that blur the distinction between esoterism and exoterism like Ismailis etc.

Just found out that Hakim Bey was part of Nasr's Traditionalist institute prior to the Iranian Revolution. His post-left anarchism and past advocacy for boyfucking notwithstanding, are there any of his works that are of value?

>>11100569
He was good for comparative mythology and lesser symbols, but I think of him not as a perennialist in any degree. They talk about different parts of the myths, in Traditionalist terms he mainly deals with the second plane and first plane, where Evola deals with the third plane and first plane.

>>11100595
What are these "planes"

>>11100595
Eliade's marerial on sacred time and the sacred/profane distinction is great, though.

>>11100595
>>11100569
I don't even know why you consider those guys have any authority whatsoever. Sure they say interesting things but these guys weren't initiate and they didn't even follow a religion which is the number one prerequise if you're serious about this.
Evola is responsible for leading astray a lot of people and it shows. He's like a Nietzsche for conservative larpers with a tiny sense of the sacred.

>>11100618
If you're grounded in a study of metaphysics and actively participate in an orthodox tradition, I don't think Evola poses much danger at all, but yeah he has unfortunately probably seduced many people away from a real engagement with tradition.

>>11100618
yikes

>>11100605
physical, soul, spirit
>>11100608
maybe I'll check it out, I have his book Myth and Reality though have still yet to read it
>>11100618
I disagree with that, Eliade still professed being an Orthodox Christian until his death, and again as I have said I don't think Evola is bad and in fact I think he is superior to Schuon as a whole and is to Guenon in many regards. For the Evola spergs, it's again as I have said last thread the people who read his political works that get astray. There's a reason he regretted writing those.

>>11100644
>and is to Guenon in many regards
how?

if guenon were alive today, he’d unironically be interviewed for ancient aliens

>>11100650
what's the point of believing in aliens though? if aliens aren't magical, they are pointless, and if they are magical, why be aliens at all then?

>>11100650
he'd be writing critical articles for obscure online blogs on why these alien tv programs are subversive

>>11100659
but also agreeing with their general premises

>>11100618
1. You don't need to follow any particular religion in order to have knowledge of the Divine.
2. Your countersignalling of Evola was a real shitpost that contributed nothing to the thread.

>>11100648
with path of action for the modern world, for guenon it is only dealing with the religious but for evola it is that history can and should be attempted to match up with suprahistory. That's the reason he wrote mystery of the grail, to try and awaken the spirit that was already in italy and germany. They already had a soul, but now needed the divine spark

>>11100667
ah, i see our resident guenon scholar has arrived. what general premises would those be?

>>11100683
Well i'm not him but the origins of humanity, as in the origins of the Aryan race being "alien" in the sense that they were not humans but rather suprahumans, lifeforms of divine origin, is something i think Guenon would get behind.

>>11100691
yeah ok, let's see some textual evidence for that

>>11100676
>You don't need to follow any particular religion in order to have knowledge of the Divine.

Heresy.
"Knowing" with your brain doesn't mean anything. You have to know with your heart and if you know with your heart you subscribe to a religion. Even those who have reached enlightenment still follow a religion because it's made for man and man is made for religion.

Like I said last thread, an illeterate grandma who goes to church every sunday has more spiritual growth than a thousand "traditionalist" who spend their days talking about Atma/Maya.

It's meaningless and you're only fooling yourself

>>11100708
Are you here to troll, or being serious?

>>11100700
I pulled that out of my ass, i have read too much Evola lately, so i don't know if Guenon wrote about Aryans.

>>11100659
Would he be classified as NRx/Dark Enlightenment?

The blood of a warrior is closer to god than the thoughts of a philosopher. You all are using the wrong paradigm

>>11100753
>Dark Enlightenment
why did Land had to choose a name so retarded?

wow guys.. guenon is blowing my mind right now

>>11100708
>You don't need to follow any particular religion in order to have knowledge of the Divine
>Heresy
Heresy implies Orthodoxy. Which Orthodoxy is that Heretical in comparison to? Are you actually asserting that every single person who didn't join an organized religion is utterly oblivious to Divinity?

I don't even really disagree with you in regards to the grandma thing, but I don't think you realize that you sound like an absolute asshole.

>>11100769
brain damage caused by too many amphetamines

>>11100753
Traditionalism honestly seems like the spiritual equivalent of nrx in many ways. The parallels were absolutely startling when I began reading Guenon.

>>11100770
Delete this. Guenon was old when he wrote that.

>>11100732
He wrote on the Hyperborean/Arctic origins of the Vedas and acknowledged that Hinduism was brought to India by people migrating south but disagreed on the theory that there was a concerted huge movement of people that largely displaced/subjugated the indigenous population of the northern regions of the Indian subcontinent (which through genetic studies we now know to be somewhat true). The fact that he wasn't aware of the extent of the migration into India doesn't really have any bearing upon the fact that he was right about most other things though. He expressly notes at one point that after a certain point the southern Dravidians were just as much Hindu as those who were descended from the northern migrants.

He definitely would have disagreed on the idea of one particular race being 'super-human' 'alien' etc with other races not being that because it goes against the whole premise of Advaita. In some sense the Aryans/Indo-Europeans/Indo-Iranians were privileged in that they were the original recipients of the Sruti much as Arabs benefited from being the first to hear Muhammad's revelations, but being the first to benefit from that sort of thing itself does not make those races super-human.

>>11100770
>imagine being such a pleb that you can't see that triangles are made of four points and four lines

>>11100769

It's a fun playful name.

>>11100729
>>11100773
I'm dead serious. Now I understand I sounded like a cunt. But really. Evola is the blacksheep of this whole movement. Wasn't it a big enough redflag when Guenon personaly disawoved him?
I can't quote him because I don't have the english text on me. But basically there's to ways to be "without religion". Either you do it the modern way, being a "free-spirit" or you actually understand they're all one. But -and he explicitely insist on this - it's an understanding that is beyond the mind and theory. A very, very high spiritual level and even when you've reached this understanding those people still follow the tradition of the country they're in.

So, of course, and please forgive me, someone who lives in a degenerate country and has no idea of what a religion is can still "know God" or have an intuitive knowledge of the sacred.
But we both know that wasn't the case of Evola. He knew about it and choose not to do it because he sees everything through the prism of his own ego. That's what makes it a fraud to me. And really. I've only ever saw him quoted or considered in the anglo-saxon world.


Now I'm going to stop "derailling" this thread. But please, think about it. Look at the names on the OP >>11099488
And ask yourselves why he is the only one without a tradition.
Have a nice day everyone.

>>11100866
honestly we should split this general into two, because this is such a division in the Traditionalist school that causes a lot of diversions.
Most of the thinkers on this list hated the term Traditionalist and preferred Perennialist

a lot of people in this thread sound like theyre ready to sign up for just about anything without as much as a critical glance

Here's a thought experiment.

Can someone give me a good Traditionalist critique of Marxism?

>>11100944
>he hasn't read the books and realized himself that they're mostly right

or, alternatively

>he read some of the books but is having doubts and is projecting his indecisiveness onto everyone else

>>11100966
being anti-bourgeoisie is in of itself bourgeoisie

>>11100866
Wasn't it a big enough redflag when Guenon personaly disawoved him?
Guenon still kept a correspondence with Evola, even after he was disavowed by everyone else in the Sophia Perennis.

>>11100966
That isn't a thought experiment

>>11100966
They're so different that it's almost hard to "criticize" Marxism from a Traditionalist perspective in a way that isn't essentially just restating the central principles of Traditionalism.
Marxism is materialistic egalitarianism, Traditionalism is spiritual and hierarchical.

>>11100966
Check out Yuga: An Anatomy of Our Fate by Marty Glass. He thought Marx's critique of capital and what it does to people as being an accurate description of one of the many symptoms of the Kali Yuga. Glass also discusses Jean Baudrillard, Jacques Ellul, and Lewis Mumford.

>>11100966
tradionalists are too dumb to analize the material movements of economics

what time and place would a Traditionalist prefer to live?

>>11100866
>be evola
>be turgid, uncomfortable autist
>meticulously study Vedanta, Tantra, Hermeticism, Grail theory etc
>realize that the Catholic Church is fucking retarded
>be Italian
>reject Catholicism, Islam and Judaism for being degenerations of higher traditions
>reject Brahmanical thought for being life-denying
>involved heavily with vitalists and ariosophers (despite disavowing the Occult)
>write a whole book on magic and ritual
>err strongly towards Tantra
>other tradfags want to know why you are so independent of established dogma
>refuse to acquiesce
>realize self-initiation with others is possible
>embrace Tantric understanding of lilamayavic thought
>completely ostracized by tradfag insects who can't think for themselves
>fade into obscurity
>denigrated to this day by tradfags
lol this is why I don't take you people seriously
>>11100970
this is not a healthy way of thinking and reveals you people are not interested in philosophy or respecting intuition at all. Noetic understanding can't be forced through scriptures and rituals

>>11101091
Any time is fine. As Evola said it is during the lowest point that the person who stands, stands the highest. During a golden age i'd be surrounded by others who would be enlightened, but we're not as enlightened.
For mere physical stuff, just like personal reference I'd like Britain about 500 B.C. or Denmark 0 A.D

>>11101083
>traditionalists are too dumb to analize
>analize
Read a book.

>>11101111
lmao

>>11101121
I'd like to analize a trad woman

Can someone explain the difference between the world of Being and Becoming?

>>11100966
Dialectical materialism goes against the notion of higher planes of reality that Traditionalism premises on.

Historical materialism goes against the involutionary view of social development that Traditionalists hold.

Communism as a goal goes against the hierarchical and anti-egalitarian worldview of Traditionalism, although the "end of history" aspect of it could be construed as the triumph of Kali Yuga seen from a demon's perspective.

>>11101145
Women can't be traditionalists. They're either good wives and mothers or thots.

>>11101091
Outer Mongolia, October 1920.

>>11101194
Read Plato, or read "real" sophisticated analysis, not some 5 minute youtube video analysis version. The allegory of the cave should help to clear things up for you.

>>11100816
Great post, thanks.

>>11101091
Northeast India, 10th century AD.

The height of the Pala Empire, and the height of diffusion of Buddhist thought in places like Sarnath and Nalanda. Walking the streets would radiate with cosmic energy.

Baring that, somewhere in Old Europe would be pretty nice. The world has yet to know major upheavals, and most people etch out a simple existence farming, raising families, and honouring the gods. Mother nature's touch is felt warmly.

>>11101091
Nizhnevartovsk. Russian Orthodox place.

>>11101091
here and now, because it was the will of Allah (swt) that I be born into this place and time.

>>11101300
give me the quick rundown on this meme

>>11101091
This is a trick question, because any person who gives a sincere answer of a time and place is a sentimentalist, and thus, not a real Traditionalist.

Which political ideology most closely aligns with the perennial laws of nature and why is it National Socialism?

>>11102021
Read pic related if your shitpost was remotely genuine, otherwise stop larping as a member of a German worker's party from the 1930s and gtfo.

How can one live a traditional life in these dark times? How can one become achieve moksha in the Kali Yuga? Every attempt to do so seems futile because modernity is explicitly alien to any traditional way of living. We’ve been brought up in a world where anything ancient is looked at silly and primitive. What can I do to free myself from the mental emptiness of modern nihilistic society.

>>11102021
>social darwinism
>biological reductionism
>nationalism
this is traditional?

>>11100770
H-h-he’s j-just k-kidding right?

>>11102046
What's wrong with what he said?

>>11102042
>become achieve moksha
Sorry, I went to type ‘become enlightened’ and then changed it to ‘moksha’

>>11102048
It’s numerology gibberish. Absolutely ancient aliens tier.

>>11102062
Numerology is part of many traditions, like it or not. Pythagoreanism, Kabbalah, Islamic Esoterism etc. Numbers have symbolic significations

>>11102070
“All is number”
-Pythagoras

>>11102045
All of those things adhere to the Universal Natural Law, do they not?

>>11102070
next youll tell me astrology is real

>>11102081

>>11102062
Go read about (or better yet visit in person) medieval cathedrals and then tell me that sacred geometry (which is closely related to numerology) is bullshit.

>>11102102
Once again, read the book I posted or stop.

>>11102105
traditionally astrology was used to determine propitious times for sacrifices and religious festivals. The universe is a meaningfully ordered whole, so yeah, the positions of the planets correspond (not cause) with terrestrial events.

>>11102113
>>11102122
the absolute state of your minds
what could guenon say that you wouldnt believe?

>>11102177
That a man is a woman if he chops off his penis and ingests estrogen. That the Aborigines are interchangable with Koreans. That men and women are the same.

Astrology is far from the most irrational concept man has devised.

>>11102177
ive never read anything by guenon on applied astrology. im basing my views to a large extent on the enneads by plotinus where he discusses astrology as a theory of correspondence rather than causation. and frankly most traditional religions either employ astrology actively to one extent or another or have references to its symbolism

>>11102122
>The universe is a meaningfully ordered whole
nope

>>11102336
Great post, 10/10, please keep coming back to the Traditionalism generals.

>>11102336
Yeah, I am fully aware there are people who don't see it the way I do. All traditional religions uphold the view that it is a meaningfully ordered whole and that "accident" and "coincidence" are superstitions only moderns could believe in. I have no intention to "convert" you to my views, and you are perfectly entitled to persist in your way of seeing things:
>I do not worship what you worship,
>nor do you worship what I worship.
>And I will not worship what you worship,
>Nor will you worship what I worship.
>Your way is yours, and my way is mine.
Surat al Kafirun, Quran

>>11102357
ok anon

>>11102357
*tips*

>>11102359
>>11102357
honestly though, the more i think about this the more it makes sense that the universe not being a meaningfully ordered whole makes more sense. if everything was by necessity, why would a god have created? to watch us live our lives like rocks sliding along a descent?

>>11102398
why would a god have created it?*

>>11102398
>>11102402
>why would a god have created it?*
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Hidden_Treasure

Has anyone else meditated using pranayama techniques for long enough that they see a golden, eye-shaped orb in the center of their minds eye? It's very bright and almost look like the sun and at its core there is a small black dot that kind of resembles a pupil. Does this mean anything or is my brain seeing things that aren't there?

>>11102412
i havent but does anyone know good books that discuss the phenomenology of meditation techniques like this?

>>11102418
Light on Pranayama by B.K.S Iyengar

>>11102412
You should be skeptical of anything merely "phenomenal" like that. Spirituality is the pursuit of real knowledge, knowledge in which there is an identity between Knowing and Being, between subject and object. Phenomena can play the role of symbols but if they don't correspond to actual knowledge it becomes "prelest" to use an Eastern Orthodox term. If you're doing all this meditative stuff on your own your exposing yourself to unecessary dangers. Even Julius "go it alone cause im a lone wolf" Evola had spiritual teachers early on including a Pythagorean mystic (not sure how legit he was) and a Catholic monk who taught him alchemy.

>>11102410
I know about that, still, I find the idea of a God that throws rocks down a cliff because he likes to watch them fall pretty repugnant.

>>11102451
How did you read that interpretation into the link I gave you?

>>11102430
I haven't been doing it alone, I've been learning under a teacher who has 25 years of experience and they have acquired their knowledge from some of the top yoga teachers in the world.

>>11102464
I was referring to the idea of everything being by necessity

>>11102430
>everything is signs
>everything is being
>becoming is bad
>Aeonic states are bad
lol you people

>>11102468
....have you asked them about the significance of your experience?

>>11102489
No not yet, they're overseas at the moment and I only had this experience a couple of hours ago. I have looked at some books that regard breathing techniques and there are some references to similar visions while practising but none go too deeply into them (if there even is any significance).

>>11102430
this is getting embarrassing

>>11102541
What exactly are you embarrassed about?

>>11100521
>How meaningful a comparison can we even draw between the Greeks and the Muslims?
Some Muslim-anon's will have to chime in here, but it's my understanding that figures Muslim mystics like Al-Ghazali, Al-Farabi, and Ibn Tufayal all studied Plato and Aristotle and their mystical practices were highly linked by Plato's metaphysics of Good and the tripartite ordering of the soul

>>11102021
>Slaughtering one arbitrary genetic group because you don't like em
>Technology worship
>Completely and utterly denies the Feminine Principle

Nazism is extremely removed from Nature, my dude.

>>11101109
Not him, but Evola strikes me as someone who never actually escaped the prism of ego to any significant degree. That's not to say that he had nothing important to say, but he comes across as someone who didn't *truly* get it, in the same way that perhaps Guenon or Krishnamurti did.

Also, there's something to be said about judging a philosophy by the fruits of its teachings, and the fact that he inspired so many chauvinistic far-right groups tells me he was messing with ideas he wasn't fully aware of the spiritual implications of. Make no mistake, fascism is a spiritually degenerate movement, all flowery metaphysical terminology notwithstanding.

>>11100491
>>11100502
Ok, writing it all out would be tedious so i'll post a few

pic related the Hindu concept of ananda

>>11103123
>post a few
meant post a few pictures

how metaphysicians attain spiritual realization

>>11103134
"absolute quantity beneath manifestation" (see reign of quantity)

>>11103141
Hiranyagarbha

>>11103147
passages reminiscent of bhagavad gita and the concept of "lila" (divine play)

>>11103156
"lila" continued

>>11102964
>The Feminine Principle

>>11103184
Yep. It is impossible to achieve any meaningful progress without it's acknowledgement.

>>11103189
Kay you're gonna need to extrapolate. What is it that you think "The Feminine Principle" means? Is it a Traditionalist concept? I've never heard of it.

>>11103162
there's more ill post them later

>>11103197
Alright, this is my pleb-tier understanding of it, and I don't claim it's a Traditionalist concept (although I imagine there may be some Traditionalist literature on it), but here goes.

The Universe can be said to who two polarities - the Masculine and the Feminine. From an ultimate perspective, both aren't actually separate, but in relative terms, they deal with different spheres of existence. It's what the Daoists refer to when they talk about "yin" (feminine aspect) and "yang" (masculine aspect.)

The Masculine Principle is the one most obvious to basic human consciousness. It deals with the exterior world, survival, daytime, logic, stability, order, verbal language, deduction, hierarchy, boundaries, suspicion of Other. Our current civilization is extremely Masculine-dominant.
The Feminine Principle, on the other hand, deals with the interior world, expression, nighttime, intuition, change, spontaneity, non-verbal communication, induction, equality, crossings, love of Other.

The Nazis utterly abhorred anything relating to Feminine Principle, since their entire worldview was based on "us" vs. "them," hierarchies, stability, survival, etc. They did appeal to some sense of "intuition", but it was a twisted, self-serving intuition, not a holistic one.

With all of this though, keep in mind Feminine and Masculine do NOT mean "Female" and "Male." Each person has aspects of both. Jung sort of explored this with his ideas of "anima" and "animus."

I hope this has made some sense, I'm having a hard time elaborating on it. If you want more information, just google "Divine Feminine," "Feminine Principle," "Yin and Yang," Shakti, Sophia, etc.

>>11103295
Absolutely Lunar. There is, in fact, some Traditionalist literature on it. It's called Revolt Against the Modern World.

>>11103295
You've actually correctly described Feminine v. Masculine broadly, but you have misidentified the Earthly and Material with the Masculine. Nature worship and materialism belong to the Lunar/Feminine polarity.

I get the sense that you attribute Spirituality itself to the Feminine, and that is utterly foolish. There are both types of Spirituality. They are not equal.

>Everyone has Masculinity and Femininity
Yes, and each man's duty is to overcome those aspects of himself that are Feminine and each woman's duty is to overcome those aspects of herself that are feminine.

Masculinity subordinates Femininity. You're right to associate change with Femininity, Traditionalism asserts unchanging Truth. We live in the age called Kali Yuga. Kali, the Goddess of destruction, is said to be fully awake in this era. The "Progress" of this age is degeneration, destruction, involution. The only positive aspect of the "progression" of the modern world is that it is fated to exhaust itself.

Nazism was truly severely flawed, but its flaws have absolutely nothing to do with not being Feminine. If anything that was one of its chief strengths.

>>11103391
*overcome those aspects of herself that are masculine
my bad

>>11102320
top kek

>>11103391
>I get the sense that you attribute Spirituality itself to the Feminine, and that is utterly foolish. There are both types of Spirituality. They are not equal.
If I did that wasn't my intention, I see Spirituality as being a transcendence of opposites, so Masculine or Feminine alone cannot be lead one to any sort of insight. Without Survival, there is only Chaos, and without Expression, there is only Oppression.

>Yes, and each man's duty is to overcome those aspects of himself that are Feminine and each woman's duty is to overcome those aspects of herself that are feminine.
I'd say it's more it's each person's duty to integrate the disparate principle, rather than "overcome." A man must face his hidden Feminine "weakness" in order to embrace his Masculine, and a woman must face her hidden Masculine "judgment" in order to embrace her Feminine.

>Masculinity subordinates Femininity
I am *deeply* suspicious of such ideas. In the Ultimate there is neither Masculine nor Feminine; and to raise one above the other is, in my limited opinion, to keep one bounded to samsaric tendencies while on the soul's journey.

>"Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."
Gospel of Thomas, Chp. 22

>Traditionalism asserts unchanging Truth.
Indeed, but as I mentioned before, this Truth transcends all polarities, even the samsaric stability of the Masculine. The Truth may be Eternal, but it is also Eternally Fluid, so to hold onto the Masculine as THE Eternal is to mistake the forest for the trees IMO.

>The only positive aspect of the "progression" of the modern world is that it is fated to exhaust itself.
While I agree the cyclical model of history is useful, we must be careful not to attach too much our own hopes and fears onto this process. "As above, so below", after all. If we focus too much on the external age, we will neglect the inner bonds keeping us tied to it.

I will admit, I too was angry at modernity for the longest time, but as I have continued on my journey, I have begun to realise that Truth permates everything, even in the spiritually darkest ages. Look at this very imageboard, for example. I have found 4chan, and the internet as a whole, an incredibly valuable source for learning about the Cosmos and the inner truths of reality, something which was only made possible through modernity. And while many spiritual sacrifices had to be made in order for the internet to even be possible, that does not discount the benefit that it has brought to me, right here-and-now, in this lived experience. "

>>11102964
>Slaughtering one arbitrary genetic group because you they have the habit of destroying societies and degenerating ethics
>Same as any other 20th century power
>Both male and females were encouraged to adhere to their inherent traits and use the faculties which nature gave them to their fullest
National Socialism is the application of Mother Nature's laws applied to man

>>11100885
Oh we're talking about perennials, I'm tracking now. Why are the fuck people calling it traditionalist?

>>11103508
>Gospel of Thomas
Non-canonical.
To say that the Masculine subordinates the Feminine is not to say that it vanquishes it. It doesn't imply destruction, negation, or cancellation, but rather a description of their unison within "the Ultimate". To rank them as equal below the Ultimate is to neuter them.
>I'd say it's more it's each person's duty to integrate the disparate principle, rather than "overcome." A man must face his hidden Feminine "weakness" in order to embrace his Masculine, and a woman must face her hidden Masculine "judgment" in order to embrace her Feminine.
I agree that a man must face those aspects of himself that are Feminine in the sense that he must drive them out, and vice versa. Overcome still seems to be the right word to me.
Truth is Eternal. Truth is the world of Being. The world of Becoming is change, and change is Feminine. The world of Becoming reflects the world of Being, not vice-versa. It isn't an egalitarian connection.

>>11103606
I mean, I could bring up a lot of points responding to your post, but the simplest is really that seeing Masculine or Feminine as either in opposition or one being subordinate to the other is to engage in dualistic thinking, which is the prime sin of the mind and the principle thing keeping anyone from experiencing Truth.

As I mentioned in my first post, Masculine and Feminine are ultimately illusions, as are all supposed opposites. To exalt one above the other... really won't get you anywhere, if I'm being blunt.

>>11103648
But you said yourself that equality is an aspect of the Feminine polarity, so the assertion that they are equal is essentially a reflection of a Feminine-primary lens through which you view things.

>>11101109
>>reject Catholicism, Islam and Judaism for being degenerations of higher traditions
being anti-church is kind of a catholic thing, protestants would never understand our tradition

>>11102109
>le edgy coastal elite philosophy comic

what do you guys think of miguel serrano?

>>11103684
I know, I know. I just couldn't help myself. It made me chuckle.

>>11103663
I meant in a very base, social sense. Besides, as I just mentioned all dualities are ultimately illusions, so even the distinction between "social equality" and "social hierarchy" is illusionary.

The "equality" of the Transcendent isn't just lame "we're all the same" feelgoodism, it's the absolute recognition that nothing is ultimately separate from anything else, no matter how differently they manifest themselves.

>>11103686
if polyfemus had a third eye why couldnt he figure out who odysseus was, dude seems like a pseud

>>11103693
You may have meant it in a base social sense, but it's actually true in a higher sense. The world of Becoming reflects the world of Being, so the reflection of the Feminine in egalitarianism is indicative of metaphysical truth.
I understand what you mean by the equality of the Transcendent. Kings and subjects are equal in a sense, "No subjects, no kings". But kings rule subjects, despite this metaphysical "equality".

>>11103686
if you take every pseudo-traditional cliche and stuffed into a neognostic framework with a nazi veneer you get serrano. he's completely kookoo

>>11103162
>>11103199
continuing

the Logos, "I came not to bring peace, but a sword"

>>11103715
And the world of Being reflects the world of Becoming.

I feel as though there is a danger among many, no matter how sincere this motivation, to see "Being", "the Absolute", "the Truth" as some sort of "Thing" that is "it", if that makes sense.

In one sense that is true, but that's still not really what "it" IS. The idea of "Being" is just a finger pointing to the Moon, not the Moon itself.

>>11103724
myths and time (compare to the theories of Eliade)

>>11103729
among many seekers*

sincere their motivation*

>>11103733
female deities = shaktis (the "powers" or sources of vitality of the male deities)

>>11103736
procreation as an act of contemplation ("and Adam knew Eve")

>>11103742
the unity of Knowing and Being

The Virgin Traditionalism
vs.
The Chad Futurism

>>11103729
>The world of Being reflects the world of Becoming
Absolutely false. Objects do not actively resemble their shadows. They resemble their shadows because their shadows actively resemble them.
Duality is illusion in the sense that it is encapsulated "from above", it is NOT illusion in the sense you describe which is more akin to disintegration. Differentiations can exist within an all-encompassing whole.

>>11103748
Unity is prior to plurality

>>11103753
Janus-Christ (see the chapter on Janus in Symbols of Sacred Science), door of Capricorn (discussed in many places of the same book), other assimilations between the intellectual principle (Logos) and Christ.

>>11103764
principle as root of existence, superiority of the unvarying over the varying

>>11103686
>muh nazi aliens

>>11103769
"Why callest thou me good"; real analogy between symbol and symbolized

>>11103769
>superiority of the unvarying over the varying
>>11103729
I gotta go. You seem to have the right disposition for understanding Traditionalism, though we haven't been in agreement. Read some Guenon, I'm sure you'll find it interesting.

Can I get some good recommendations on distributivism?

>>11103777
nice digits
>>11103775
holy relics and holy sites

>>11103791
Ok, not gonna post more you get the idea.

>>11103752
The spiritual process IS disintegration. Any teacher worth his salt will tell you as much; anyone claiming otherwise is a charlatan looking to sell cheap answers.

Yes, it is fucking difficult, and yes, you will find yourself refusing to let go. But if you want the ultimate Truth you have no choice but to surrender.

It is not for the feint of heart.

>>11103648
Good post... It was the "Titans" who affirmed masculinity over femininity and lead the entire world into much violence and suffering, they were not solar heroes but they were sinners i believe. Evola wrote that they were "almost individualistic" which makes some sense to me...

>>11099868
post your nose

what are some good western meditation guides like The Cloud of Unknowing?

>>11103993
>2+2 equals 5
>no it doesn't
>bro it's an illusion you have to let go

>>11102412
Lol I have this painting at home. Bought it for like 5 bucks at a charity shop.

>>11103993
>>11104690
Further we aren't discussing "The Spiritual process" we're discussing the Masculine-Feminine polarity.
The kind of debate where you refuse to yield ground on the basis of "It isn't real anyway lol" isn't productive, it isn't intellectually honest and it just makes Eastern philosophy seem retarded.

>>11103521
>Mother Nature's laws
What the fuck does that even mean? Sounds like a shitty rehash of Karl Marx's dialectical materialism.

daily reminder

bump

>>11105290
Kalki here, you guys are okay

bump, we must fight against the tranny spammers wrecking our board. truly, gog and magog have been let loose from their confinement. these are the end times my brothers

>>11106433
>>11106202
do something, kalki

hasn't been posted in the thread yet

bump

any french anon's want to explain this autism? what does it say?

bump

where do you guys fall on this chart

>>11107699
Right hand, almost equal parts dry and moist, slightly more esoteric than exoteric.

>>11107699
Define Right, Left, Wet, and Dry.

>>11103780
seconding this

>>11106853
im going to make a counter-tradition chart to help those of you who have joined a cult in your own mind with no context of what came before or after

>>11108758
elaborate

>>11108733
right hand is nomian and more conventionally traditional

left hand has strong antinomian tendencies, goes again the grain of mainline traditions

dry is very detached, intellectual, buddhist-like, tendency toward chastity, nondevotional, contemplative, sometimes radically advaita


moist employs a lot of emotions, more devotional, sexuality is more permitted and encouraged (only in marriage for right hand), even might employ various drugs/alcohol for some left hand paths

>>11109013
cont:

an example of dry right hand path is a theravada buddhist monk

an example of moist right hand path is a conventional vaishnava bhakta

a christian monk belonging to a very devotional sect would fall somewhere in the middle

a dry left hand path would be...can't think of an example tbqh

a moist left hand path would be any kind of tantra that employs rituals involving sex/alcohol/meat

>>11109013
The left and moist terms refer to the same things.

>>11109036
they don't. You can have a left hand path (antinomian) that uses dry methodology

>>11108994
its either someone shitting on tradfags which would be nice as they're insufferable retards OR someone who is a tradfag that's unbelievably threatened by the death of organized religion and the resurgence of Alexandrian mysticism. Either way I condone the generation of this chart
>>11109013
Christianity is highly emotional, Evola even mentions this, so this is incoherent or unclear as they prohibit and criminalize sexuality

>>11109040
I put christianity in the middle because you have chastity and devotionalism

>>11109044
seems inane, also make my chart so I can bother you about how God is still dead

>being a traditionalist in 2k18

>>11109395
who is that guy? i like his round head

>>11102042
>>11102042
>How can one live a traditional life in these dark times?

In my opinion, impossible in the West. Living "traditional life" would mean that some traditional institutions would have existed, survived and preserved the knowledge and way of life. In reality, even isolated communities such as the Amish etc. do not life "traditional life" in my opinion.

>How can one become achieve moksha in the Kali Yuga?
I remember reading something among the lines that because Kali Yuga´s dissolution, one can "achieve moksha" during a single lifetime, when compared to other ages when processes of nature and cosmic scale were much more "slower". In Kali-Yuga it is more dangerous path, but realization can be achieved in a single lifetime.

>Every attempt to do so seems futile because modernity is explicitly alien to any traditional way of living

If you accept we are in Kali-Yuga then you should understand that this process cannot be unreversed. Even fighting the dissolution it at this point would be futile.

>What can I do to free myself from the mental emptiness of modern nihilistic society.
Transcend it. Nietzsche´s overman, Evola´s "Ride The Tiger" or adherence to some tradition like Guénon did.

As I understand it, the goal is to reach something immobile, primordial and that which is not subject to dissolution.

What is that thing? Atman, Spirit etc. many different names. The key here is transcendence in my opinion.

>>11109400
Geydar Jamal. He overcame traditionalism and came to apophatic left-libertarianism within Salafism. Dugin's friend.

Sufis and Shias = the party of Iblis-Apollo, the Platonic Demiurge. They support the existing world order, which the prophets denounced. The Sufi-Masonic elite has already entered the world's establishment (see Sufism in British India or Tsarist Russia).

By the way, the Muslims of India, Pakistan and Afghanistan often are very distrustful of guenonism, because Genon was under the immense influence of Hinduism, which is a geopolitical and metaphysical opponent of Islam in these countries.

>>11109697
>the party of Iblis-Apollo, the Platonic Demiurge. They support the existing world order, which the prophets denounced. The Sufi-Masonic elite has already entered the world's establishment (see Sufism in British India or Tsarist Russia).

Tell more. Where do you derive these "classifications"?

where do i start with coomaraswamy?

>>11109703
"Gnosticism" + Liberation Theology

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geydar_Dzhemal#Philosophy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_3hnQeU7EQ

>>11109738
>>11109697
>he party of Iblis-Apollo, the Platonic Demiurge. They support the existing world order, which the prophets denounced

Do you think they consciously support the Demiurge? Ie. Evola´s chapter from MATR "The Secret Causes of History & The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" talks of "agents of dissolution", but they are more or less viewed as a puppets of more sinister, occult forces more or less unknowingly. Guénon expresses similar views in his "Reign of Quantity", the so-called "Inverted hierarchy" does not consciously know they are the counter-tradition.

Anyone here familiar with Ernst Junger? What place does warfare have in transcendence, or to be more accurate self-sacrifice within the context of total war?

On a related note, does anyone have any resources on mystic principles that can be observed from the botanical world?

>>11109706
tfw i ask this every thread and get no answers

>>11109762
No. They are just puppets, as you said. They think they worship God, but they are not. Internal unity of religions = inner viciousness. There are no branches of truth coming from the center. The idea of the center is diabolical. "Natural religion" is always paganism. Allah is absolutely incomprehensible, radically alien to this world and is revealed to mankind only when He wants it (through the prophets). For example, Plato's philosophy was not a prophetic revelation. This is a delusion that infected some ideas (lol) with Western (and not only) culture. Islam (true Islam = prophetic tradition from Adam) radically differs from all religions and philosophies and radically rejects them. By the way Dajjal = the 25th emperor of the Kalachakra.

I set out the views of Jamal, but I don't quite agree with him. Although he greatly influenced me, I'm an Orthodox Christian. The main essence of his philosophy for me is the opposite of the doctrine of cosmic cycles and the prophetic tradition. And as a Christian, I believe that Jesus Christ can heal traditional cultures by correcting them and breaking the meaningless circle of rebirth. It is impossible to imagine that the whole of human history was only an epic coal production for hellfire. Human cultures are unique and important (like every human being), but without Christ they are unfortunately doomed. Dissolution in the impersonal Absolute vs. Living Communion between the God-Person and the human person. Guenon vs. Athos Monks. That's how I think.

>>11109839
>By the way Dajjal = the 25th emperor of the Kalachakra.

So do you equate the "Kalki Kings" of Kalachakra tradition as the "Antichrist"?

>>11104478
Boehme Way to Christ

>>11109875
I don't know. This is a difficult question and I didn't study it. Between Tibetan Buddhism and Eastern Christianity there are some parallels at the level of symbolism. For example, background of Barlaam and Josaphat legend, Prester John as Tibetan king, figures of Ungern and Badmayev, etc. Russian Old Believers searched in the Siberian Asia for the mysterious state of Belovodye. Was it Shambhala?

>>11109771
guenon discusses the symbolism of the flower in "symbols of sacred science"

>>11109927
>Was it Shambhala?

Would you equate "The Heavenly Jerusalem" as "Shambala"?

>>11110014
No.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Opona

>>11099488
Can somebody explain something to me? One thing I just don't get whenever I come back to these thinkers is their views on Jews. How can you say that Jews, who have held a mostly consistent, conservative religious view for over 4000 years, are enemies of tradition? Hindu thought is a heterodox mess, Buddhist thought is a heterodox mess. Europeans adopted other religions and appealed to slave-morality messianism. Same with the Persians, too. I'm not shilling, I just want to know how people can view an ethnic group that is so committed to their identity that they'll cuck over a whole Palestinian state as wishy-washy postmoderns.

>>11110059
>How can you say that Jews, who have held a mostly consistent, conservative religious view for over 4000 years, are enemies of tradition?
traditionalists don't say that

>>11110059
????????????

>>11110076
You'll have to forgive me, because I haven't read much of the field, but Evola definitely believed Jews to be degenerative.

>>11110084
Evola is a bit of his own thing. But even then there may be literally nothing wrong with some group, and that group still have no place in a society, like in India people who are out-of-caste were usually at some point prisoners of war or migrants, which have nothing wrong with them but they literally have no place in a society as an organic whole

>>11110059
There is overwhelming evidence that in fact Judaism took most of it's major doctrines from Zoroastrianism after the Jews were freed from slavery in Babylon by the Persians in roughly the 6th century bc. Judaism is definitely not an unbroken tradition going back 4000 years. Before then they were just another typical semitic levant city/tribal cult but then suddenly after being freed by the Persians all these doctrines already in zoroastrianism appear in Judaism like heaven and hell, demons and angels, a resurrection and final judgement etc. Combined with the fact that the Persians were known to remake the religion of their subjects in the image of Zoroastrianism and that Cyrus was praised as 'god's annointed' in the earliests Jewish texts and it's pretty clear what happened.

Also Hinduism is not really a heterodox mess but is remarkably consistent. The single criteria of orthodoxy in hinduism always has been and is adherence to the Vedas. Anytime there has been developments of doctrine or influence from non-Vedic sources it only ended up becoming part of mainstream orthodox Hindu thought if it was already in accordance with the Vedas. What looks dissimilar on the surface is really just various adaptations of the same fundamental doctrine to different eras according to the needs of the people living then.

>>11109706
Anywhere, he doesn't rely on a bunch of ideas and definitions studiously laid out in his previous books like Guenon does.

>>11109839
>>11109697
This is so retarded I don't even know where to begin

>>11110380
nice

>>11110383
Why?

>>11109697
left to right:
rostov "the rabbi" lindowski, timothy "sweet belly" mcgrew, mickey "the whistler" funicelli, johnny "dead eyes" palozzi

>>11104122
They didn't affirm one principle over another. They denied higher principles for the sake of materialistic and aggressive hubris. Re-read chapter 28 of Revolt Against the Modern World.

>>11110059
Rabbinical Talmudism is hardly consistent or conservative.

>>11110909
>Rabbinical Talmudism is hardly consistent or conservative.
How so? Seems to be both as far as I can tell.

>>11110921
Really?

>>11110964
Yeah. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

>>11110987
I have trouble believing that Simon of Trent's death for blood magic ritual was the result of a healthy, consistent, conservative Tradition.

Perhaps there are conservative "threads" or "elements" within Talmudism, but to describe Talmudism as consistent is too much of a stretch.

>>11111008
>Simon of Trent's death for blood magic ritual was the result of a healthy, consistent, conservative Tradition.
Even if that is true, what is not consistent or conservative about that? If rituals aiming at the harm of your enemies is part of your tradition it would be the conservative thing to do to make occasional use of them. Not condoning it.

>>11110084
Evola viewed all Abrahamic religions as degenerative, and as the other anon pointed out, very much his own thing.

>>11111018
There isn't any basis for blood magic rituals in the Torah. Talmudism is full of sophistry.

>>11103751
*blocks your path*

>>11111035
>There isn't any basis for blood magic rituals in the Torah.
There doesn't need to be. Do you even know what Rabbinical Judaism is?

>>11111035
I misstated. The Torah explicity forbids all magic rituals.

>>11111056
That's mostly irrelevant, but I would like to see a verse, and please include the Hebrew word in question so we can look at its precise connotations. It's irrelevant though because
>>11111050
>Do you even know what Rabbinical Judaism is?

>>11111068
Oh, and on top of that, isolated cases of deviation wouldn't prove that the tradition as a whole is not consistent and conservative. I'm just playing devil's advocate in assuming that it (such rituals, that is) IS a part of their authentic tradition (which it probably isn't).

>>11111068
Exodus 22:18
Leviticius 20:27
Deuteronomy 18:14
Deuteronomy 18:9-12
Leviticus 19:31

>Do you even know what Rabbinical Judaism is
I'm not dignifying that question. Do you even know what poisoning the well is?
>That's mostly irrelevant
It's mostly irrelevant that the written laws of God directly contradict the oral teachings of the Pharisaic Judaism that emerged after the Jews rejected their Messiah? Why? Are you saying that their oral teachings don't contradict the written laws of God, or are you saying that it doesn't matter that their oral teachings contradict the written laws of God? Seems highly relevant to me.

Maybe I'm just cattle, so there's no hope that I could ever "understand" why Rabbis are so wise that there is no reason to evaluate them against a higher standard of truth.
>Isolated cases of deviation wouldn't prove that the tradition as a whole is not consistent or conservative.
Isolated holes do not prove that this is a net, this is a tapestry with a bit of moth damage!

Once again, there may be conservative elements of Talmudism but the idea that Talmudism is consistent is laughable. Rabbis don't even claim that Talmudism is consistent. Except for when it suits them to do so.

>>11111068
Isaiah 8:
19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living of the dead?

20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

>>11111188
>>11111220
I've stated my case. I get the sense that I'm talking to JIDF so I'm going to let this issue lie. Defend Pharisaic sophistry if you'd like. Discerning spirits will see the truth of the matter.

>>11111188
From their point of view the Talmud does not contradict the Torah, it elaborates and explains it so that people don't fall into the heresy of sola scriptura and interpreting it for themselves. They also believe the oral interpretation was given at the same time as the written law.
>Jews rejected their Messiah
They don't believe Jesus is their Messiah.
>Maybe I'm just cattle, so there's no hope that I could ever "understand" why Rabbis are so wise that there is no reason to evaluate them against a higher standard of truth.
This is a traditionalist thread. Higher standard of truth = metaphysics, not Biblical literalism or sola scriptura.
>the idea that Talmudism is consistent is laughable.
Where's the inconsistency.
>Rabbis don't even claim that Talmudism is consistent
Source?
>>11111220
>wizards
And the technical definition for that would be..? What? Does blood rituals fall under that category? Divination? Necromancy?

Most of the other passages you cited refer to spiritism and divination. Not the same thing as "blood rituals" aimed at harming your enemy. Which again, I'm not defending the use of it by isolated individuals. Just playing devil's advocate.

Can someone explain to me what traditionalism is ?

>>11111262
https://youtu.be/_Vjf9X5bDJQ?t=3m48s
The Talmud is consistent in what it says, AFAIK. Talmudism isn't the same as the Talmud. Because so many questions are left unanswered and open to interpretation Talmudism is inconsistent in that there have been varying interpretations and teachings based on the Talmud which were not explicitly laid out in the Talmud. That is why it is inconsistent. Where there is vagueness and inconsistency there will be sophistry. Man is fallen.

>>11111749
skip to 3:48

>>11111749
>Talmudism is inconsistent in that there have been varying interpretations and teachings based on the Talmud which were not explicitly laid out in the Talmud.
that isn't inconsistency. that's literally how that tradition works. Shari'a is exactly the same. Four major sunni madhabs with different applications of the same hadith/sunnah, and one major Shi'a madhab. they all employ different methodology.

tradition is a fenced off space to move around in, it's not a straightjacket

>>11111749
if you're looking for a straight jacket
>>/fundamentalism/
is more up your alley. this is a traditionalist thread

>>11111816
>>11111896
Fine. I'm just biased against a religion that permits the murder of innocent children for blood magic rituals to be used against the very people you regard as an enemy, an enemy whose faith necessitates that they tolerate your presence in their society. Very biased indeed.

>>11111982
>a religion that permits the murder of innocent children for blood magic rituals
I was arguing as devil's advocate by assuming that this is permitted in judaism. it is in fact, not permitted, though that isn't to say it has never been done. every religion has examples of people breaking their own rules, that should be obvious.

>>11112061
>It is in fact, not permitted
Then why defend it? Why argue that even if it's allowed there is nothing wrong with Talmudism? Just say that they were wrong and let that be the end of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xPJBoMh9zk

>>11112095
I wasn't defending it, I was arguing that even if they permit it, this isn't theoretically inconsistent with the qualities of "consistency" and "conservatism", i.e. you can have a child murdering religion that is conservative and consistent.

>>11112095
there is no context for that video. presumably he means during warfare, like if you conquer a territory you can kill the kids so they dont rise up and rebel when they grow up. this is in the same scriptures that christians read (see: conquest of canaan). as a muslim im against this, but nothing in that video suggests "blood rituals" fyi

>>11112105
>>11112115
Very well.

>>11112095
>>11111982
>>11111749
>>11111237
>>11111220
>>11111188
No offense, and I know this can often be used as a meaningless label, but you sound like a genuine anti-semite. Pretty sad, tbqh.

bump because today im too tired to read this thread

>>11112160
I am not particularly a fan of the Judaism built atop the rejection of the Messiah, nor the historical and contemporary actions of its people. Divorce is merited and overdue. If I am uncharitable toward the religion itself from a traditonalist standpoint then that is an error of mine.

>>11112370
its past bump limit

>>11112446
im not a fan of the religion either mainly because of their chosen complex, but dude be careful of falling for antisemitic misinfo. orthodox judaism is still a fairly respectable tradition

>>11112558
That's fair. I admit to my bias.