/lit/ - Literature

>>11044437
What do you think?

>>11044437

Ruined poetry? He mastered the art when he was still a kid. His work is canon.

Seems like the repetition of originality is the real problem... the lack of it

change isn’t bad, no.

>>11044437
no

>>11044437
Overvaluing art is cancer. Subjectively it can be whatever you want. Objectively it's just scribbles on a page.

>>11044530
Well that's just plain reductive.

At least Rimbaud's own work was original and highly artistic. Eliot ruined poetry without producing anything of worth.

Sometimes brilliant people do weird avant garde shit and then all the proles latch on to 'wow everything goes!' to hide their lack of talent, just like in the visual arts.

I don't think it's his fault but I can see how he was an important element in it.

>>11044685
>Eliot ruined poetry

Aaaand you're wrong

>>11044685
>Eliot ruined poetry without producing anything of worth.
Finally someone other than me has the balls to say it.

>>11044694
>reddit spacing
>cringe tier writing
Eliotfans,jpg

>>11044685
Eliot didn't produce anything of worth, true, but I think it's the beats who ruined poetry

>>11044708
No, the beats were actually making poetry somewhat popular again, it's just that they didn't produce many good works because of their too hyper-irrationalist understanding of poetry. Eliot's at the forefront of the movement turning poetry into a game of academics totally cut off from popular taste and who only love the refined smell of their own overly literary farts.

>>11044685
>read Eliot's essays
>calls Kipling's barrack ballads some of the best verse ever written

>>11044685
Dead right. Everything he writes is derivative and hodge-podged together. He's so excessively allusive he loses any originality or underlying purpose to his works. And he brought mawkish pessimism into style in poetry, to the point where despair and self-doubt are badges of intellectual legitimacy. Eliot not only poisoned poetry, but did worse to criticism with his glutted prose essays, and diseased half-culture.

>>11044743
note: I'm not saying poetry should be reduced to vulgarity for the sake of pleasing the crowd, I'm saying that good poetry has a certain universality that makes it appealing to humanity at large, and not just the obsessive students of literature.

>>11044530
You can say that about anything, really. "Jail is just a room lmao xD"

>>11044757
Did he write a single sincere line? Eliot is the poetry of the castrated bourgeois cuckold. Never forget this.

>>11044530
best post

>>11044437
the last prince of poetic France
>Do you think that originality, particularly extreme originality, can be a bad thing?
this is some antediluvian obscurantist bullshit. Anyone original, or actual genius, is born once in a couple generations, if you are very lucky.
You can't even conceive how bland the vast majority of population is in reality, they can not be corrupted by a great intellect because they have no capacity to understand anything above their mind, so if they are corrupted, then it's always the mediocre intellects who do the job.

>>11044743
>turning poetry into a game of academics totally cut off from popular taste
Someone who has no understanding of literary history: the post

>mfw when Eliot's finally getting dunked on

This has been a good thread. I don't want to jinx it, but /lit/ has been especially good today, hope it sticks.

>>11044437
This man was a fucking genius. He started young, he ended his career young. I don't think he ruined anything. "The last poet" was Guillaume Apollinaire in the early 20th

But other french poets from 20th weren't bad neither.

Worth noticing that Leo Ferre had its own definition of peosia and liked to put it in music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0gLnBL2axM
video related : le bateau ivre

>>11046680
>dunked on
A few hazy buzzword adjectives thrown in his direction is not Eliot getting dunked on, those are childish tantrums of edgelords and Pessoa fans.

Rimbaud's poerty was too good for this specie, honestly. People whom he mocked (elitist bourgeois, angsty and dumb teenagers, etc) are appropriating his work and turning his image into a sort of ultra-libertine romantic new age teen while trying to miserably copy his style, thus producing horrendous """poems""".

>>11047716
>write as a bratty drifting teenager and fucking lads up the ass in a haze of absinthe, hashish and opium
>change poetry forever with a few works
>quit writing before you're an adult
>go live as a cool arms smuggler in east africa and fuck thicc black women for the rest of your life

i think rimbaud might be the ultimate example of the literary lifestyle

>they have opinions about Rimjaub and poetry
Hahaha why doesn't everyone itt just get a room so you can fuck each other hahahaha lol

>>11044437
Individuals can't single-handedly ruin anything. He just happened to be the highest point of a certain trend.

>>11044437
He ain't Cute.
Post Tolstoy or Anne Frank instead

>>11048156
>rimbaud
>not cute

faggot

>>11048168
why the homophobia?

>>11047837
>literally the most miserable man of all time
very literary indeed desu

All memes aside let's just admit that Eliot is too big brain for us and we simply don't think it's worth picking apart even with that noted. The issue with Eliot foremostly to me is just how unendearing all of it is. Take Joyce for example. While he has dense works like Ulysses and FW he has two incredibly accessible beautiful works of literature out to coax you into taking the real plunge. He's charming, silly, fun. All the qualities necessary to invite one into dense literature. Eliot on the other hand, as a literary persona at least, is inhuman and distant in his being. It's high register academic poetry and its not even alluring if you aren't already into that sort of thing. Sure good diction is important in poetry and it's ok to be a little verbose at times but if you ask me something like Yeats or Rilke is way better than Eliot. I agree with what an anon said earlier about this. Great poetry has a universality about it that allows it to resonate with all humans. Let's not pretend Eliot is literally a bad poet. But I'm glad we're acknowledging that being appealing to academics doesn't necessarily mean you're an amazing artist. The man's put no soul in it! Hell I can feel more from a two stansza Hughes poem than Prufrock.

>>11050084
nice pasta

>>11050179
tfw anytime there is a decent post on /lit/ it turns out to be a pasta

>>11050179
>>11050227

Idk if I should be flattered or offended but this wasn't pasta, just my thoughts!

>>11050403
what do you think of rimbaud

>>11044437
Turn on the radio sometime soon and tell me poetry and music haven't suffered destructive influence.

>>11044743

>No, the beats were actually making poetry somewhat popular again, it's just that they didn't produce many good works because of their too hyper-irrationalist understanding of poetry. Eliot's at the forefront of the movement turning poetry into a game of academics totally cut off from popular taste and who only love the refined smell of their own overly literary farts.

So in other words, if Eliot was around today he'd be posting in /lit/?

>>11047736
I like both Eliot and Pessoa. And Rimbaud for that matter.