/lit/ - Literature

>>11018690
I would say you're too old, Ayn Rand should be read at 14 and done with at 16, if ever she is read. Take it from someone who bothered to read Atlas Shrugged: it's trash. Also expect your thread to be deleted very soon because Rand discussion is a rule violation you fucking newfag

>>11018701
I'll bite the bait
What's a better book with similar themes

>>11018798
american psycho or my twisted world are some good looks into the mind of a sociopath

>>11018807
I meant more Rand's philosophical ideas but thanks anyway

don't

>>11018807
kek

>>11018812
you have to read actual books on economics rather than fiction

>>11018690
You have to go deeper than that OP

>>11019130
Rand>Stirner though.

>>11018690
Good man. After you finish read Philosphy: Who Needs It and then The Virtue of Selfishness. If you're still hungry for more otionally read Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology and Leonard Peikoff's OPAR.

OP, read Aristotle first(ethics in particular).

>>11018872
> economics
> not fiction

>>11018690
Yes, if you want to understand the world within which you live, you should attempt to establish something of a grasp of the major philosophies.

One only tells people not to read controversial works if they are an ideologically possessed retard, worried that a thorough understanding of the whole truth leads to major political conclusions alternative to their own.

>>11018812
>Rand
>philosophy
choose one

>>11018690
Nigga reas her novels for the fun they bring, ayn rand is shit at philosophy

>>11019328
>Rand
>major philosophy

>>11019387
Ayn Rand is the philosopher's philosopher. Insofar as she blew all preceeding philosophic systems the fuck out at least.
She coined the term "psycho-epistemology" and slew of original logical fallacies and was first philosopher to discover the importance of non-contradictory integration throughout the entire tree of philosophy, pic related.
People threw tantrums over her taking their altruist, subjectivist and mystic toys away. And still are. Most of their tactics consist of conflating her system with lolbertarianism and the absurdity that is AnCapism.

>>11018872
John Maynard Keynes

>>11019328
Rand is for edgy teenagers, she isn't a major philosopher

>>11019672
>she isn't a major philosopher
And why is that?

>>11019674
Because I said so, simple as

>>11019674
Because the concensus in the philosophical community is that she isn't a "major philosopher", as anyone who has ever studied philosophy at a college level can tell you.

>>11018690
If you must, just read Anthem. It's the shortest of her work, and paints a clear picture of how ridiculously dumb her "philosophy" actually is.

>>11019698
I know why.

>>11019698
>philosophical community
>community
Theres that word again

Don't bother trying to start a thread here OP, board is filled with retards who love to slurp down the poor lazy people's cum as they are one and the same themselves

>>11018701
There being one r/philosophy redditor mod on /lit/ doesn't make it a rule faggot.

>>11019752
Tf are you on about? At least 3 posters itt have waded through that doorstop and agree that it is trash. I know the meme texts say no one on lit reads, but fucking apply yourself and stop projecting your illiteracy boardwide.

>>11019771
I'm the third poster fyi, and I consider it a masterpeice (if layman friendly). John Galt's Speech was and remains hard-irrefutable.

>>11019771
At least three posters not including you I assume from the projection for your fears for illiteracy. All your opinion whether it's trash or not really lies in how you value the world, of course most /lit/ posters are social outcasts so of course they can't relate or understand it
It's a good book worth reading no need to get so butthurt over it

>>11019799
I really enjoyed the book but the speech was just too tedious for me, in the sense that it was just a summation of everything, which while nice just kind of came out of nowhere considering the length. I agree the book is a masterpiece though

>>11019815
>Good book worth reading
Are you underage or just a handicapped 19 year old? No need to respond, it's one of the two and it doesn't matter which

>>11019829
It's all good I understand how low iq brainlets get frustrated and can't read books, which is why you think it's trash, I know it upset your feelings but that's alright

>>11019829
Maybe try and separate your philosophical beliefs with good writing skills retard

>>11019819
Which is why I say that the intellectually inclined only need John Galt's Speech stand-alone. I recommend Christopher Hurt's audiobook performance. Was a joy to listen to.
It's on yt.

Someone in this thread is typing like Jordan Peterson and saying the same things he said about rand and it's making me really nervous

>>11018690
Start in the trash because that's where her books belong

>>11018690
Buy a copy of Anthem, and then throw it into a fire and read 1984 instead.

>>11019328
Read Ayn Rand/Rosenbaum if you want facts and contrivances from a half understanding of human economic behavior. Ayn Rosenbaum is a materialist "philosopher." If you want to explore philosophy ditch this ideological propaganda and just read the Western canon. If you want the truth, read Oswald Spengler. Cultural morphology presents the best argument ever made for organisms being.

>Anno domini MMXVIII
>People are still calling Ayn Rand a philosopher

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No, dont read, b-grade literature, if that

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long, turgid tomes glorifying The Man on Horseback, [ google, ] The Strongman, who gallops down from his castle on the mountain to cleanse the rabble below him of their morally degenerate, cowardly ways.

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An attempt at a fictional justification for fascism

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>>11021253

those people are the half-educated alt-right

>>11019328
Imagine living in a world where Ayn Rand is a "major philosopher"

>>11020758

Are you afraid? Hmm?

Very afraid?

-------

>>11020758
Psychologists LARPing as philosophers probably. The Western obsession with mechanical problems/facts has eclipsed efforts to explain the total reality. The last Western philosophers wrote before the midcentury. Predictably the imperative of the 21st century is refinement because the West has consumed all its creative force.

>>11019799
>John Galt's Speech was and remains hard-irrefutable.
>implying a=a

>>11021313
>>11019328 :
' Imagine living in a world where Ayn Rand is a "major philosopher" '

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Ok, that'd be the world of the Trumpuppets, his Useful Idiots, Low Info's, & the GOP's core, its Southern Strategy Base [google Lee Atwater, former RNC chair, Reagan campaign strategist & chief architect of the SSB]

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Lel the reddit namefag thinks he'll get (You)s

>>11021323
>>>11020758 :

"...the West has consumed all its creative force."

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Would that lack of creativity explain, for one example, the western development of CRISPR by the US & France?

That's at least as species altering as antibiotics, vaccines, and nuclear fission,

and probably more so.
.

>>11021483
tell him I say he’s he’s a fag

>>11021550
Tell him artistic creativity≠scientific invention

Imagine

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Formatting your posts

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Like this.

>>11019184
Once it involves equations your average literature reader gets scared instantly.

>>11021432
>>>/pol/

>>11021751
>giving him a (You)

>>11019328
This. The left is fine with you reading Hitler but generally want you to forget Ayn Rand ever existed.

>>11018690
Start and finish with the Fountainhead. Everything before it is weak, and everything after it is both weak and bloated.

>>11019536
>she blew all preceeding philosophic systems the fuck out
Source? I've read 4 of her books (Ideal, Fountainhead, Shrugged, Intro to Objectivist Epistemology), and she basically ignores everyone but Kant and Aristotle. She has nothing to say about Nietzsche or Hume, both of whom are giants, and she barely even touches on Plato. Russel and Wittgenstein go completely neglected, even though their work could actually be made to contribute to her project. She's a discount empiricist with a sprinkling of social contract theory.

>>11019799
His speech has more assumptions than reasoning, any one of which can be easily questioned. The same applies to Rand's philosophical work. She has this habit of saying "I dislike the consequences of all the alternatives, therefore my position is right."

>>11023178
>The left is fine with you reading Hitler but generally want you to forget Ayn Rand ever existed.
You're overgeneralizing. My gay latino ethics professor had us read one of her papers (forget the title). He corrected students when they misunderstood her and defended her positions when the class tried to refute them. Towards the end of the course he told us that he was a utilitarian and thought Rand was silly, but in the moment he made the most compelling case for her (and everyone else that we read) that he could.

>>11023341
>She has nothing to say about Nietzsche or Hume
Then what you need to read is Philosophy: Who Needs It. She talks about many philosophers; Nietzsche, Auguste Comte, Hume, and Berkeley, among others.
Intro to OE is good. P:WNI, The Virtue of Selfishness, and Capitalism the Unknown Ideal are better.
For Nietzsche she all but demolished the man here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6gV1MUSXMg

Leonard Peikoff expanded greatly on Rand in specific fields.

If anyone is wondering why the fuck am i even interested in Ayn Rand its cause of Bioshock

>I rejected those answers; instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose... Rapture. A city where the artist would not fear the censor; where the scientist would not be bound by petty morality; where the great would not be constrained by the small! And with the sweat of your brow, Rapture can become your city as well.
>bound by petty morality
>petty morality
Whatever Andrew Ryan was; he was not an Objectivist. Objectivsm posits a morality of it's own and defines it as a necessity of man.

>>11023671
Meant to reply to >>11023610

>>11023610
>>11023671
Just play bioshock then, Ayn rand is a waste of time

I did thats why i seek more

>>11023791
you're really bad at replying to people
You have the fallout series

>>11018798
rightlibertarianism I assume?
Personally recommend Law, Legislation, Liberty. Because it is both heterodox (noone in academy reads it) and makes some good criticism of the socialdemocratic thinking and policy
Do NOT read its interpretation by leftist conspiracy theorists such as david harvey, they are brainlets

>>11023682
>A-ayn Rand is just a waste of time
>mfw >>11023178
Pottery

>>11018807
good one, anon

>>11019536
>People threw tantrums over her taking their altruist, subjectivist and mystic toys away. And still are. Most of their tactics consist of conflating her system with lolbertarianism and the absurdity that is AnCapism.

Kek, what is the leviathan? What is the prisoner's dilemma? Who is Hobbes?
GTFO you newfag

>>11025632
>some butthurt socialist that mad
Still laughing

>>11025632
I read anthem when i was 14. By the time i was 15 i had read everything else she wrote.
Don't let your children read rand.

>>11025632
I got one too.
>The highest tribute to Ayn Rand, is that her critics must distort everything she stood for in order to attack her. She advocated reason,
not force; the individual’s rights to freedom of action, speech, and association; self-responsibility, NOT self-indulgence; and a
live-and-let-live society in which each individual is treated as an END, not the MEANS of others’ ends. How many critics would dare honestly state these ideas and say, ” . . .and that’s what I reject”?

I got one too.
>The highest tribute to Ayn Rand, is that her critics must distort everything she stood for in order to attack her. She advocated reason, not force; the individual’s rights to freedom of action, speech, and association; self-responsibility, NOT self-indulgence; and a live-and-let-live society in which each individual is treated as an END, not the MEANS of others’ ends. How many critics would dare honestly state these ideas and say, ” ...and that’s what I reject”?

>>11026716
>don't let your children read rand
t. the increasingly nervous commie for the 90th time this year

>>11026775
Don't be fooled. Trads and natsocs are just as threatened by Rand as any commie.

>>11026816
Don't even get me started on NatSocs

Go full Striner or go home

>>11023341
this post best post

>>11027128
He shouldnt have let marx edit his work

>>11025632
Literally and unironically who

>>11025632
>Caring what some Hollycuck thinks

Just read anthem cuz it’s the shortest. If you like it, go on to her other stuff. Or just go play bioshock cuz reading is for losers.

>>11025632
The guy behind transformers and the cat woman movie had the fucking gall to criticize the literary merit of anyone else. Fuck that guy.

>>11029025
t. loser

>>11018690
No you should not.

I have never yet read a coherent refutation of her ideas that doesn't totally misunderstand what her ideas were. Objectivism is just as far from the left as it is from the right. If there is a well-reasoned refutation of her ideas please point me to it.

>>11018690
>Im 18
>too young
More like too old. 18-22 is communist territory.

>>11031023
Not a refutation, but it leaves out metaphysics entirely, and a wider variety of things to strive for than increasing gdp would be good.

>>11031377
>it leaves out metaphysics entirely
U wot m8
http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/metaphysics.html

>>11031023
Left and right in her view constitute anticoncepts and are both the biggest king of package-deal fallacy. The terms left wing and right wing are useless terms and I have since stopped identifying as right wing long ago even though I am still capitalist, indivdualist and an assortment of other things generally taken to be in the right wing package.
I used to take defensive offense at how wikipedia and google imply Fascism cannot be left wing by specifically redefining it as "right wing". I still argue against it but no longer treat it as an attack against me. Fascism is a modus operandi that either a right or left can and do use.
I had however always viewed the very notion of centrism with contempt, so my abandoning of the "right" was long-in-coming because of it. In fundamental terms I had always known it was essentially a giant middle ground fallacy. So not only are leftism and rightism anticoncepts; centrism is too. Though of a different kind (and of the same type as "extremism"). Rand made it concrete and explicit for me exactly what the terms centrist and extremist actually constitute.

>>11031494
>king
*kind

>>11031023
Read Nozick's on the randian argument brainlet

>>11031524
Not him but I have read it and was not impressed. The man is a phiosophical anarchist and subjectivist.

>>11031023
Unironically Stirner
Property has to be enforced

>>11018690
Nick Gaetano's art is fucking /aesthetic/

>>11032564
Enforcement is not un-objectivist though.

>>11032564
Jeez, is there anyone Stirner didn't refute?

>>11032658
Lol, no, it definitely isn't

>>11033447
No considering Rand says that the police are a necessary institution in order to protect rights, along with courts

>>11033518
>implying

>>11033769
>unicorns with lightning penises
Powerful stuff.