/lit/ - Literature

>>10999816
>final boss of philosophy

Sounds pretty spooky....

I honestly could not relate on the very first page when he wrote about not using reason in childhood. His whole philosophy of everything constantly contesting everything else is reductionist and narrow minded.

>>10999816
yes

>>10999816
more like the first boss

Hegel is the final boss
Stirner is the new game+

"Stirner's work is best understood as answering Hegel's question of the role of consciousness after it has contemplated "untrue knowledge" and become "absolute knowledge".

>>10999816
'Boss'
Sorry busta, you just spooked

>>11000380
What’s Schopenhauer then? The secret boss?

>>11000421
Schopenhauer is the bad end.

>>11000435
This, or like trying to justify not wanting to beat a game if its too hard.

He wouldn't be a boss, but he would be the weakest enemy in philosophy

>>11000461
That’s Camus

>>11000480
This. Stirner is the Furtive Pygmy of philosophy.

>when the actual final boss reveals himself after you beat Stirner without taking damage

Everyone in this thread that thinks Stirner doesn't destroy philosophy is brainlet tier

>>11000596
Then he destroys his own philosophy.

>>11000421
Shopenhaur is the secret boss you unlock in the second play through after you beat Kant in the first play through

>main villains group

>>10999816
>>10999841
>>11000243
>>11000380
>>11000406
>>11000421
>>11000435
>>11000461
>>11000480
>>11000482
>>11000495
>>11000514
>>11000630
back to /v/

>>11000643
I barely even play video games, doesn't mean I'll ignore their social impact or new terminology/ concepts that came along with it or actively try to ignore something I might have enjoyed in my childhood just because I may not find as much enjoyment in it now.

>>11000596
Are you implying that's a bad thing?

>>10999816
Nope, Nietzsche is however!

>>11000740
2/10 leave out the exclamation mark next time.

>>11000754
nope!

>>10999816
How did this nigga, and solipsism by extension, manage to garner any fucking credibility? Was reading in another thread that Stirner wasn't actually real, he was just Engels trolling people.

>>11000829
>be Engles
>read Stirner and think, "this is how everyone thinks they think anyhow."
>realises he was the man that trod over and crippled that little girl
>realises he must write a will soon before the effects take control and he is no longer capable of changing back to Engles
>writes will before he becomes Stirner and continues to run down little girls without concern
>decides he's now going to be Robin Curuso on the island because he can be anyone, is anyone
>gets bored of this, realises he's not Robin or Andy Kauffman, but is indeed Jim Carry, or who Jim Carry would be if there were such thing as an ego
>decides to create a script for life that is excalty like being an egotist.
>is tortured by his need to be told what to do, where to go, what to think about new situations
>reminds himself of his happy meal he had when he was ten, about the pop and cholate bar in his fridge
>yes, a cold chocolate bar, like he had when he was young
>feels like this time, that past were true even though he heard he may of remembered it all wrong, that what is cold, what he ate, it was all just the world being excreted by athena into his mouth
>he begs for the one taste, he reclaims his unknowing embodiment as a future one moment behind the thoughts of his ego, his self, behind the knowledge of his shiteatting
>guisness is poured, depress is discussed around a circle, and he dreams of that One Taste

>>11000829
>How did this nigga, and solipsism by extension.
What makes you think he was linked to solipsism?
>manage to garner any fucking credibility?
He the greater scheme of things he did not really get that much credibility. However for his time it was because he demolished and outed as hypocritical one of the biggest thinkers of his time period and took the deconstruction of the time that was in vogue to its scary and radical conclusion.

>>10999816
>Is he the final boss of philosophy?
not quite.

>>11002029
At least here. Mckenna is x̴̧̡̛͉͈͈͎͕̞̞͍̜̝̝̞̀̿̃̽̀̈̔̂͛͘͜͝͠͠è̷̢̛̺̒͋̀̒̈́͒̈́̽̊n̷̥͓̰͌̓̌̌͝ơ̵̰̪̙̬̙̟̒͜ͅb̷̨̳̟̑̽͒̈́̀̃͐̋̍l̶̡̙͍̦͔̬̱̉̎̍̀̂͘̚̚a̶̢̢̨̛̛̟̳̫̘̙͈̦͓͙͍͓͎̎̈́́̈́̔̈́̚͘ŕ̵͖̘̳͇̜̱͔͚͍̈́̄̒͝ͅh̴̡̛͓̙͔̼͙̰̹͈̼̣͐̀̽̍̋̌̊̾͂ͅg̸̹̩̺̃̎̈́̈́m̶̢̛̉̿̉̃̾̓̄̀͐̑̈̆͊͝ỵ̷̡̧̡̢̹̻̻͔̥͖̗͚̮͌͊̌́́́̈́͠͝ȗ̸̢̺̯̟̭̻͙̰̫̬̙̬̂̿̄̈̔̌̔͠m̶̧̳̥̼͋̒͜͝ͅi̴̢̜̝̫̹͈̮̝͓̫͑͗̈́̈́̍̀̀̋͊͘͘͝d̸̨̦̗̼̥̫̥̬̳̔͜ã̶̡̹͗͆h̴̻͎͓͈̪̥̱̭̯̼̟̠͚̦͉̋́͛̀̏͊g̸͇̻̻̜̓s gatekeeper who is the second final boss of philosophy

>>11000829
>solipsism by extension

What did you mean by this?

>>11000642
Lmao who on the right?

>>11000642
Imagine being Engels. Born to a rich factory owner, polymath, speaking like fucking 20 languages, literally fucking the wives of your philosophical opponents and just throwing out scetches like this while chilling with your bros.

>>11003663
That's me.

>>10999816
Stirner wasn’t a real philosopher.

>>11000829
Why don't you actually read his book instead of just posting spook on /lit/?

Reminder that Marx was so spooked by Stirner he wrote Ad Hominem: The Book

>I don't like it so it isn't real!
How is he popular?

>>11000899
Great post, marvelous ahaha splendid

>>11000380
based kinski poster

>>11005222
To be fair Marx incoherently rambled about many people

He's the final boss of Western philosophy, because he sees through the illusions we create for ourselves, and tells us to make them tools.

However, the best parts of Eastern philosophy went further - they saw that (in Stirnerian terminology) the self, itself, is a "spook."

The good thing is, there are only 2 eastern texts worthwhile, that go this extra step:
Dogen - Shobogenzo
Zhuangzi (his writings are available under his name)

>>11005222
It most likly was never intended to be published in such an extremely polemical form, Engels would have edited it down a bit

>>11006894
good post

>>11000829
Because he makes perfect sense.

Ight so was stirner a real person or nah

>>10999816
Not quite.

>be middle class german literati
>never have to struggle to feed yourself, live off the success of thousands of years of complex socio-philosophical developments including the agricultural revolution, the division of labor, empiricism, the industrial revolution, and even emerging liberalism
>>"lol society is just a spook. im the owner of my universe. add me on discord nospooksallowed#1844"

yeah sorry if I'm a little skeptical desu

>>11006941
I don't read it as a rejection so much as an attitude of skepticism and trying many new things

>>11006941
>never have to struggle to feed yourself, so you can actually spend time expanding your knowledge and developing philosophical ideas unbiased by your working/living conditions and instead apply them to all the human race
What's bad about that

>>11006941
>>11006950
>>11006956
I like Stirner a lot, but I do see his lifestyle as a little problematic for his philosophy, but for a totally different reason.

I don't mind that he didn't struggle, but his philosophy obviously seems like it would be conducive to a life where you manifest what you want. I'd expect an unconventional life of adventure, with such a philosophy.

I read a biography on Stirner during my Stirner phase*, and it was painfully boring. He worked his way up academia, with a few minor setbacks, eventually got to the point where he ran a girl's school, and then lived out the rest of his life quietly, as an educator. You could argue that this was the life he wanted, but I find it a little hard to accept that a guy whose philosophy was ostensibly to will whatever you want into existence, would choose such an unremarkable life.

*note that when I say I had a "Stirner phase," I'm not trying to suggest that I've somehow matured past him. It's just that I went through a period where I was really into him, and I no longer am.

>>11006956
>and instead apply them to all the human race

>Fritz, you've been late to the factory three days in a row now..
>>Lol why is that a problem? Work hours are a spook.
>... and when you DO show up to work, you spend only 10 minutes doing any actual work before you start sitting around calling everyone fools
>>But everyone IS a fool, jobs are spooks.
>Fritz, I'm letting you go. I really hope you sort yourself out for the sake of your kids.
>>Bosses are a spook. I'll show up anyway.
>*sigh* SECURITY

>>11006998
>You could argue that this was the life he wanted, but I find it a little hard to accept that a guy whose philosophy was ostensibly to will whatever you want into existence, would choose such an unremarkable life.
I'm not a stirnerfag by any means but this doesn't make any sense. Why would he, all things considered, do otherwise?

>>11007010
You don't get it. The fact he calls security at the end doesn't matter, you've been spooked.

>>11006998
I had a similar phase - I think what I valued in Stirner, I still largely agree with, but it has been expanded upon in the east like somebody mentioned earlier.

In any case, I don't really care if stirner lived up to his writing myself,but if you want to see someone who did live up to stirner's ideas, and wrote as well,check out Renzo Novatore

>>11007013
To travel. To experience things. To do more with one's life. Why not?

Maybe it's just that my goals are very different from that - I like living in different places, trying different things, and getting into personal development. I wouldn't want to spend my entire life in a little German town, teaching kids.

>>11007023
Thanks for the recommendation - I've seen that name, but I've never read him, so I'll check that out

>>11007013
Not him, but it seems to show that despite all of his talk of "spooks," "egoists", etc. at least a part of him supported the social contract he lived in. Being a long-term educator isn't exactly screaming "resist societal impulses."

>>11006894
I kind of came to the same conclusion that the self is just another spook, but where do we go from there? Do we just manipulate and control the self like any other idea? What is doing the controlling then?

>>11007039
It's not that there is no will doing the controlling. Basically, it's about getting past the ego, so that you aren't distorting the truth because of your identity and ideas about yourself. What I mean by that is, our self-image can get in the way of seeing things clearly, which can make us act in the wrong ways (i.e. doing stupid things because of pride or lo self-esteem). For the sake of the will, what this means is, when you see what you need to do, you can act more effectively. In the practical sense, it means taking control by breaking out of our patterns of behavior. Almost everything we do is about of habit, and those habits were produced by the illusions we constructed for ourselves, based on the stories we tell ourselves about who we are and what everything around us is. When we see through the assumptions we make, and assess things free of habit (ideally), then we can act more effectively.

2 books to recommend if you're interested in zen:
Hardcore Zen by Brad Warner
Why Buddhism is True by Robert Wright

Brad Warner is a super down to earth zen master who basically explains zen concepts in the most grounded ways possible.
Robert Wright is a science journalist with a background in neurology, who explains the scientific/neorological/psychological backing for buddhist concepts.

>>11006998
The will is an internal process. One that is truly free of spooks has no need to physically manifest his will. Its recognition is enough in itself.

>>11007079
No. I disagree. Maybe he has no need to show off, or manipulate/dominate people, but I think being free of spooks means being free to manifest the life you think is best for yourself.

>>11007024
Well, we may never know. Maybe he was content with his life?
>>11007035
I think that recognizing the nature of spooks doesn't mean you have to outright reject everything. Always doing the opposite of what society does doesn't mean being free from society, it means being dialectically bound to society in a negative way.
Or maybe he was too much of a pussy to do anything else.

>>11007039
my advice, look into eastern shit
taoist,the kyoto school, probably some hindu stuff

>>11007073
I was more thinking along the lines that "the will" is itself a societal fabrication, a spook. The self, the "I", the ego, is also another spook. This is obviously coming from though outside of Stirner, but it seems to me his arguments could easily be extended to the concept of identity and will. Stirner assumes that there is something beneath the layers of social conditioning: the Creative Nothing. But I wonder if this is not just another spook. He thinks that with enough ghostbusting, your true self will emerge with all of its true desires. But I am struck by the fact that, in absence of ALL social constructs, I believe I have no desires at all. One could argue that something like hunger is not socially conditioned, but I still feel that it is external to the Creative Nothing. It is not a legitimate desire because it does not come from within.

This is a post-modernist reinterpretation of Stirner, where individuality is an emergent social function, but I think its more accurate. Even if it doesn't really seem to leave me with anywhere to go. Does this make any sense? Does any of the Eastern work talk about this? Am I just being a brainlet?

>>11007150
Eastern stuff does talk about this, and it's an interesting point. But the thing is, pointing out that our desires are meaningless, that we're tiny biological organisms on a tiny rock somewhere in the universe, etc. is ultimately meaningless, because even if nothing matters and everybody's gonna die, you're still gonna get up tomorrow, and you're going to have to decide what to eat or what not to eat, and what to do with yourself. And even if everything is inconsequential, you'll still be happier doing stuff you like than stuff you don't, even if no grand deity cares what you're doing.

And what we do does matter, even if only within that socially constructed scope. In a way, it's all that matters, because all that's real is us and the people around us. You can dissect everything until it's just doing things that increase serotonin rather than cortisol, but it's still something.

Which I guess goes back to Stirner's point - if everything is socially constructed, you might as well do what you want.

>>11006906
Who dis?

>>11007176
I understand all of that, but it leaves me unsatisfied as it being an answer. Its like trying to get at one's true self gets you stuck in a recursive loop of externalizations and the only way out is just leaving the problem unresolved.

Its almost like the self is an infinite concept. Like how in math, we can never find the square root of 2 because its an infinite concept. You can write out more and more decimals, at greater and greater approximations, but you are ultimate no closer a billion decimal numbers deep than you were at 1.4... That's how I see the self. I can only capture it though philosophical tricks like "just be yourself", in the same way that "let N be the set of all real numbers" is a mathematical trick. You get no closer to infinity by putting a box around it and calling it something else. Maybe this is what Stirner meant when he talked about the infinity of the Creative Nothing. I thought he was saying our desires were infinite in scope, but maybe he also meant that our "self" is an infinite set of beings.

Anyways that's enough of my ramblings. As you can probably tell I've spent some time recently on math theory. I'll check out the books you recommended.

>>11007213
Philipp Mainlander.

>>11007176
I agree with this poster. I'm by no means a person driven only by sensual experience and what's in front of my eyes and in my hands but at the same time I can't deny that after all the philosophical inquiry and thinking about the universe, it's really the only thing that brings any kind of living to life.

>>10999816
He's the Regigigas of philosophy.

>>11000740
however what?

>>11006850
To be entirely honest, every work of Marx other than most of the Capital and parts of the Manifesto is anger-driven rambling.
Compared to Schopenhauer that's a pretty good ratio tho.

>>11007275
The real precursor of continental philosophy.

>>11007319
Yeah, at times it feels like Marx's effect among leftist was very harmful in kind of, popularizing that kind of thing, in my opinion

>>11000514
Based Junger poster

>>11007234
Questions about the Will and Self associated with that will might be the wrong questions to ask. There are many hallucinations one experiences throughout the day that are overlooked as the Self ought to be. The Self is such a fragile illusion, any and every human can ingest the wrong thing and be on the floor with no memory of a Self that ever existed. It cannot be empirically observed. For whatever reason it is nowhere to be found when you die. Whatever experiences this psychic energy may lead to, we do not have to assign a Self to them.

I'm the guy you were talking to, and just to be clear, >>11007502 is not me.

I would say the self is just how we perceive things - we think we're seeing everything from a central point, which we consider the self or the spirit. In reality, there is no central point - everything we think and feel is just neurons firing, and our brain reacting and producing thoughts. There isn't a single point that is the "self." This is observable in people with brain damage - losing different parts of the brain completely changes how you think and act, as does changing the chemical balance.

>>10999816
Burke anihilates Stirner before he even existed between pages 85-110 of the reflections in France 1790

>>11007039
You do not want Eastern Philosophy. The East is filled with soulless automatons because their entire canon of philosophy, their fundamental foundation, is flawed. The whole thing.

>>11007557
>their fundamental foundation, is flawed. The whole thing.
What is the solid foundation the West is supposedly built on?

>>11007568
Monotheistic virtue ethics instead of atheistic spiritualism

>>11007557
You're a moron. The Taoists were basically wandering anarchists. The Soto Zen Buddhists were family farmers. They were not salarymen.

>>11007568
>What is the solid foundation the West is supposedly built on?
I am.

>>11007589
>The Taoists were basically wandering anarchists.
>implying that's a good thing
fucking imbecile

>>11007615
I did NOT imply that's a good thing. You described them as soulless automatons, when for better or worse, they were the exact opposite of that. You literally don't know what you're talking about. Please, try to remember your own arguments.

>>11007622
A wandering anarchist is a soulless automaton you literal fucking retard.

>>11007629
It's literally the exact opposite. The whole thing is about being in the moment, and appreciating existence. It's obvious by "soulless automaton" you're referring to the intense modern societies, but the historical contexts that produced these philosophies were a lot different.

I regret calling you a moron because now you're mindlessly attacking me since I hurt your feelings, but at the same time you're proving my point by saying ridiculous things because I upset you. You're not a moron, and you're not literally retarded. You're just really stupid. And that's okay, little guy.

>>11007543
I am the anon you (you)'d. Remember this, neurons do not just fire for no reason. Those neurons (which eventually lead to consciousness) themselves are reacting. There are signals which our brain constantly detects and reacts to (meaning our minds also react to these signals as projected experience). These signals are intelligent, and are the psychic sources to a person's rational mind. Reducing this all down to neurons firing or chemical (im)balances is missing the point. Our thoughts and feelings as interpretation are far more complex than that, but I do agree that there isn't a single point of Self.

>>11000421
Schoppy is rage quitting and becoming a recluse

>>11007658
>It's literally the exact opposite. The whole thing is about being in the moment, and appreciating existence.
I'm not surprised some fucking retarded autist defending his animes on the internet doesn't actually fundamentally understand the Eastern Philosophy that is, as previously described, completely and utterly fundamentally flawed. Now he's trying to take some gay ass version of the high road because he thinks that's what his gay ass characters in his loli stories would do or some other fag shit.

He's literally such a fucking retarded stupid moron he does not even understand the fundamental nature of anarchy, living in the moment, appreciating existence and completely disregarding the past and, more importantly, the future, turns the individual into a soulless automaton. IF this anon weren't so fundamentally fucking retarded and lost in his fucking Eastern horseshit animes, he would have gone back to fucking philosophy 101 and understood literally the very first fucking part of the whatever could possibly be defined as the "soul" is the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal.

Read it again. Immortal. Read it again. Immortal. Therefore, ergo, vis-a-vis, concordantly, the person who only acknowledges the present state of himself and fundamentally ignores all that came before and all that will come after completely disregards the soul, turning him into a soulless automaton.

>>11007712
It's prior conditions that cause someone to judge that a surface level existence might fit them best. The list for reason varies for anyone. Like what are you trying to approach the ultimate ideology and then have everyone learn that or something? Lol

>>11007752
>Like what are you trying to approach the ultimate ideology and then have everyone learn that or something? lol
...like literally what all of life is trying to do.

Jesus Christ, you all really are children?

>>11007767
oh duh lol oops didn't realize

>>11007712
This is pasta, right?

>>11007887
>theresafuckingspookydeadmanattheunder endofthiscameralens.png

>>11007712
> sperging this hard
Jesus fucking Christ, you are a sad little retard, aren't you? Wow.

>>11000380
>fails to mark quotes in quotes as well as the end of quote
stopped reading with retroactive effect

but how can i be real if memes aren't real

i nominate shodan.

>>11003663

>>11006998
Stirner spent 8 years fucking schoolgirls. That qualifies as life of adventure

>>10999816
Nah read Nietzche. Stirner makes some good necessary points but there's a reason he's a meme.

>>11007887
That's not Stirner though

>>11007150
>>11007234
>>11007543
>>11007678
You should read Althusser on interpellation and the social construction of the subject.

>>11011322
Everyone here's read Nietzche, the biggest meme of all.

>>10999816
Sure, whatever. Final bosses tend to be disappointments anyway.

>>10999816
Nietzsche for lightweights

>>11011501
A good meme at that, to say the least.
Stirner is, unapologetically, a cynic. He used the initiate nihilistic realization (sequentially: the end of slave morality) for his own good.
Nietzsche, on the other hand, chooses to live in the world in peace.

>>11007024
>I like living in different places, trying different things, and getting into personal development.
and this guy have an stirner phase?.
i start to suspect that your necessity of looking to the boring life of stirner is to demonize his ideas or something. you are pretty fucked.

>>11007234
there is a reason to call it the "creative nothing" and not the self you know?.

>>11011797
I explained what I meant by having a Stirner phase. He's still one of my favorite philosophers, but I don't think about him as much as I used to. I'm not demonizing him in any way, I also explained why I was quizzical about his lifestyle not necessarily lining up with his apparent philosophy.

Take your purity test and shove it up your ass, you fucking retard. Yes, you pissed me off. Why would you get so defensive about me questioning him? I even did so pretty lightly. You clearly feel attacked on a personal level. kys

>>11011895
Most philosophers don't follow their philosophy

>>11011895
you are projecting buddy.
>getting into personal development
this is pretty pathetic.

the fact that you think stirner is saying "live your life to the fullest" and thinking that if you are full coherent with "the ego and his own" you have to live an adventorous life is a little stupid by your side... i think you should know it. im sorry to be that harsh guy.

>>11012183
I didn't say any of that. I said that I'd expect him to do more with his life. You're strawmanning me because something I said upset you, and you're a fucking moron.

>>11011895
>Stirner lived the most boring life ever, weird huh it's almost like he didn't follow his own philosophy
Stirner probably thought his life was the fullest possible, otherwise he'd be a backwards retard like you. He didn't operate on what you or anyone else thinks is the correct interpretation of his philosophy, otherwise he'd be a backwards retard, like you.

>>11012227
You're still fucking retarded. I like going out and experiencing new things. That doesn't make me "backwards." Go fuck yourself. Have fun with your mundane, spooky life.

>>10999816
Yes, you fools. Keep fighting amongst yourselves.

>>11012347
I never said you were stupid for wanting those things, I said you were stupid for thinking that Stirner must fulfill YOUR criteria for a life that accords with his philosophy in order for HIM to actually be following it. jesus fucking christ how are you that dumb lmao

>>11012393
I never said he had to fulfill my definition. I just puzzled at why his criteria for a fulfilling life was as dull (from my perspective) as it was. I do admit that he led a perfectly respectable life.

I should probably call you a retard or something, but all these insults are honestly getting tiring.

what would Stirner think of anime?

>>11011902
That's why Based Kierk is the best.

>>11012437
I'm stuck between whether i should live a respectable life or one that i see as meaningful.

>>11015653
Both

>>11015653
im not

>>11007629
>Maximum individualistic expression
>Soulless
Get a load of this goy cam.

>>11015653
Por que no los dos

>>11000380
Zizek is the final boss. Hegel is the beginning of the final boss and Stirner is largely irrelevant.

>>11016301
Hegel wasn't a Zizekian though. Zizek is a Hegelian so Hegel is the final boss.

>>10999816
The final boss is the Antichrist, and the minibosses before him are the New Atheists. They're not hard to beat, which is why they're minibosses, but they're still evil, which is why the protagonist has to fight them.

>>11016327
>implying reason is linear
The Final Boss has always existed, a projection of time cannot capture it. What came before or after whatever else is irrelevant.

>implying the final boss is human
The true origin of our intelligence is the final boss.

>>11003709
Don't forget that the sketch is made for the first gay magazine there is. Just for laughs by Engels.

>>11006941
Left Hegelians weren't middle class by any means. They were systematically barred from holding careers suited to their education by the Prussian control over universities and cultural life. Max was barred from having a teaching job by Prussian state. Marx had a PhD and had to resort to working as a journalist in a newspaper - a job he was overly qualified for. Bruno Bauer lived an ascetic life working in a tobacco shop. Strauss was forcibly pensioned due to outrage after Das Leben Jesu.

Marx Stirner was a highschool teacher. It did not earn him a high upkeep. What little money he had came mostly from his wealthier wife. The man died from an insect bite, for gods sake.

>>11007887
That's young Beckett though

>>10999816
>When you defeat all the bosses but the game won't end

>>11016532
>origin

nicely spooked my spook

>>11017006
Is your mother also a spook?

>>11016301
Zizek is a gimmick boss in the challenge mode that is harder than the final boss but only because of some stupid mechanic and only people looking for all the achievements even bother.

>>11000435
>>11000461
t. butt-devastated Hegelians

>>11000642
what is with the squirrel

Anyone know where I can get an ebook copy of Ego and His Own that isn't a shit OCR rip?