/lit/ - Literature

>>10993781
Christians are psychotic and vengeful. Let this be a lesson to you.

>>10993802
>Christians
what the fuck are you talking about anon.

How can you read LOTR and not get pissed off at what happened to Frodo? Why do people think this is such a good story?

He goes to god damn Valinor, you know, the actual heaven on the whole scourged Middle Earth that is exclusively meant for the inmortal Elves and the Maiar spirits like Gandalf. He's gonna spend the rest of eternity there and, on top of that, his firends later join him there
Your dumb op

>>10993855
fuck, i should stop drunkposting

>>10993855
>the actual heaven on the whole scourged Middle Earth
No fucking evidence for this whatsoever.

Frodo get fucked over anon. Tolkein is a dick bag

>>10993829
Tolkein was a Christian you dimwit. I'm (sorta) agreeing with you.

>>10993907
No, he was Catholic

>>10993907
>Tolkein was a Christian
How is this relevant at all anon
Frodo literally did what he was supposed to (until he failed at the end, and only Gollum's addiction saved him), and he was changed *For the worst* by his journey.

Fuck Tolkein why is this shit so popular?

>>10993829
Rare instances of weakness that would've persisted forever had he not been stopped. That also completely defeat any other moments of strength due to the consequences of said weakness. Tolkien also make Frodo accept the ring and be faithful throughout. If you question the character remember Tolkien is the ultimate authority on that matter and hence any qualms you have with the character's actions are completely unfounded.

Also Tolkien didn't decide shit, it was the result of the world Frodo was in and his own character, he hates allegory in all its forms so to say there's anything more to it is ridiculous. He is not evil for creating a world containing conflict.

Please spell his fucking name right. TOLK-IEN NOT -EIN

>>10993896
Anon, have you read the Silmarillion?
There some evidence for you right there.

>>10993781
>nothing but, except
Shootable offense.

>>10993855
You seem to know what's up, what happened to Ungoliant after the whole hand and star munching palaver?

>>10993919
>that would've persisted forever
1. there is no evidence for this
2. Even if there was, this makes your position worse since Frodo got completely fucked over

>Tolkien didn't decide shit
The author of the book didn't decide what happened to his characters? Stop drunk posting anon.

>and be faithful throughout
Bro reread the destruction of the Ring. Frodo fucked up, and the only thing that made the Quest successful was that someone (Gollum) fucked up worse than he did.

>Please spell his fucking name right. TOLK-IEN NOT -EIN
Sorry anon :(

>>10993954
She lived for some time in a mountin range , I may be wrong, but it was ered gorgoroth. She eventually went mad with hungry and devoured herself

>>10993896
and where are your fucking facts? everything is in the Silmarillion: Valinor was the birthplace of elves and most of them go back home at the end of LotR, taking Gandalf, Frodo and Bilbo with them
in a world that's being abandoned by the last inmortal beings and the magic is slowly fading, Frodo gets to be on the everlasting and evershining land of Valinor. He got his happy end alright
>>10993954
there's nothing clear, but I remember one of the books told of rumors of Ungoliant escaping south and she, going crazy of hunger, tried to eat herself and dying in the process. Other rumors say Earendil slew her in one of his many vayages though

>>10993970
The evidence is that Golem exists and Frodo would've been corrupted to the same degree.

Tolkien invented the world and the premise and allowed it to take its natural course. Sauron's power is far greater than Frodo's, ergo, he'd lose in a battle of will by proxy. All Tolkien did was create a world and add inhabitants, you cannot blame the creator of a simulation for it going wrong unless you are saying he put in the wrong parts, which I don't believe he did.

The faithful throughout was something OP said, to be fair we Frodo was pretty good most of the time. You're right though on the fucked up bit.

Sorry for yelling :(

>>10993972
Cheers anon
>>10994020
Cheers anon

>>10994020
>everything is in the Silmarillion
It took Tolkien fucking FOURTY YEARS to correct his mistakes in LOTR

This is low-level b& anon. Tolkien Fucked up and it took him a long ass time to correct his mistakes.

>pic related

>>10994032
>you cannot blame the creator of a simulation
But he didn't create a simulation, he wrote a novel anon. He had 100% control over the events that took place in LOTR.

>>10994062
Tolkien never intended to publish the silmarillion, it was only after his death that his son compiled the notes and drafts of the silmarillion and published it after a great deal of editing. Christopher tolkien has been releasing polished and finished books from his father's notes for a while, in fact a book on the fall of gondolin is coming out this August.

>>10994062
bruh, you know the Silmarillion is a posthumous work, right? Tolkien died in '73, and most of it is a recollection of lore he was working on before dying
>yfw

>>10994062
He started work on the Silmarillion before he did LOTR. He wrote, what would become the fall of Gondolin at the end of secondary school alongside making notes all throughout his life. He studied world religions, mythologies, histories his whole life and he'd been working on everything, collectively, he would ever write whilst doing that.
The Silmarillion wasn't written in order to correct his mistakes but explain why they weren't mistakes.

>>10993781
>missing the point this hard
This isn't your Marvel's The Avengers anon, the characters are not superheroes. If Frodo could actually overcome the influence of the Ring and complete the quest scot-free he'd be some kind of god, it's a lesson on the nature of mortality and the fragility of good, and that the individual alone is not everything.

Plus you know, he and Bilbo are literally hanging out in the shadow of Taniquetil as guests of honor, everyday they drink and read and just lounge about with their friends while gawking at other worldly Elfen cleavage, I think he's ok with his lot in life.
>>10993855
Anon, I...
Mortals still perish in Valinor eventually.

If anyone has a right to complain about Tolkien being a dick it's these guys, pic related.

>>10994075
A novel is a simulation anon, after he decided on the original premises and laws that maintained the world he couldn't alter the outcomes but guess them and interrupt/understand them as best he could

>>10994081
>Tolkien never intended to publish the silmarillion
>bruh, you know the Silmarillion is a posthumous work, right?
You fucking niggers aren't smart enough to know that this MAKES YOUR POSITION WORSE. The fact that the Silmarillion is little more than a collection of notes tells you that Tolkien didn't take this fucking shit seriously, therefore he was a nigger for doing what he did to Frodo.

>>10994087
Correction, started work meant imagining it and jotting bits down not actually writing the thing.

>>10994093
being Feanor is suffering

>>10994093
>>10994112
>and that the individual alone is not everything.
>being Feanor is suffering
Why did Tolkien hate the ubermensch so much?

>>10994087
>He started work on the Silmarillion before he did LOTR
How much of the Silmarillion? Which specific aspects of it explained how badly he fucked over Frodo in a way that doesn't make what happened to Frodo bullshit BEFORE lotr was written?

I don't believe you nigger.

>>10994101
>A novel is a simulation anon

>>10994107
Implying a soldier who fought in a fucking war even meant for you to take his books seriously when they're about giant fucking eyes.

It was to be enjoyed not anally analysed on Mongolian carpet selling forums online in the backwater of the internet.

>>10993907
>Tolkein was a Christian
We know!! But this has almost no relevance to the story he created. His religious beliefs have no relevance whatsoever to the statement "Tolkien was the villain in LOTR"

>>10994107
He did care and wanted to publish it, he was going to publish it along with lotr to have a single story. His publishers heavily advised against It because of the biblical style and that it left little of middle earth as mysterious as it told you a majority of the backstory

>>10994125
Again they were various notes and jottings down that set up the rules that would control the universe.

Why he made Frodo too weak a character to deal with the influence of the ring is beyond me but the fact remains given his character, it was what ought to happen.

>>10994143
>when they're about giant fucking eyes.
Kill yourself, film-fag.

>>10994135
Explain what else it is.

>>10994163
It was a joke I'm sorry anon.
Urhm... the easerlings drawing their swords

>>10994161
It's remarked throughout the story that frodo resisting the ring for so long was a feat. Boromir didn't even carry or see the ring much but was driven mad by it, frodo succumbing to the ring is expected

>>10993781
Aw, did the evil fiction hurt your fee-fees? :(

>>10994143
>It was to be enjoyed not anally analysed
you fundamentally misunderstand literature, anon.
>when they're about giant fucking eyes.
This was an invention to make the film more dramatic. There isn't any evidence of the existence of "giant fucking eyes" in any of the books.

You didn't it them anon?

>>10994093
>Mortals still perish in Valinor eventually.
n-no, they will live for ever at the side of the Valar... pls anon, let me have this, I feel so sad for the fate of elves in the whole work of Tolkien, I want them to have peace forever

>>10993802
This. Tolkien is a Christian who believes in original sin so he basically can't wrap his head around the idea of someone not being a dick without some sort of divine intervention. If Frodo had thrown the ring in the fire that would mean that a human being is capable of choosing good on their own, which is haram in Christianity.

>>10994163
>film fag
Wtf, no. Sauron was a corporeal eye in the books

>>10994173
You're explaining to a film only faggot, don't bother.

>>10994164
Actual simulations nigger, that are made by computer logic instead of the wishes of an author.

>>10994171
I wasn't finished typing that fucking post dammit what the fuck is auto post when you're still typing.
Ahem

Drawing their swords looked like glistening stars, or sparkling stars some proof that I'm no film fag.

>>10993907
A lot of fucking people were and are christians. Reminder that lotr has nothing to do with some kike religion.

>>10994184
>Sauron was a corporeal eye in the books
Where?

>>10994188
It's draining trying to get film faggots to understand the story.
Every fucking time "huur why didn't the eagles take them there"

>>10994196
>Evangelicals
my sides

>>10994178
I don't misunderstand literature some is meant to be read like that but not LOTR.
It is a story a fable, like the ones of old, think of Thor and his meetings with giants, sung about around the campfire. That style is what is supposed to emulate, tales, myths etc.

>>10994198
Isn't it described as such in the mirror of Galadriel and amon hen. Also the standard orcs bear is the eye sauron became. Unless I'm mistaken

>>10994193
>a phone faggot on top of being a film fag
Just kill yourself already. Being able to recite a fragment of 1 line from 1 book doesn't counter the fact your understanding of the story is CLEARLY that of the film's shallow portrayal.

>>10994173
Thank you for believing in me anon

>>10994215
This is why brainlets shouldn't read. Why don't you watch the new movies instead, I have a feeling it's more your speed.

>>10994215
>Isn't it described as such in the mirror of Galadriel and amon hen.
It may be, but I'm guessing that any descriptions of "an eye" aren't meant to be interpreted literally, although I would have to re-read to be sure. Can you remember where this is described specifically anon? I have a copy on hand and can review if needed.

If not, it is probably safe to assume that "eyes" are not literal, and are merely an invention to make the films more engaging (which isn't bad at all desu).

>>10994217
Enlighten me on what I ought to understand from the book. What great message ought I to have taken? One of hope? One of light overcoming darkness? You know nothing of my view of the book other than that I believe it is more him recounting a tale as if he'd heard it from someone than as if he'd created it to say something meaningful beyond that which is already assumed by anyone who'd ever read a fairy tale before?

>>10994215
>>10994184
did you also think Saruman was just a hand

>>10994198
>>10994215
Yep "in the black abyss there appeared a single eye that slowly grew... The eye was rimmed with fire, but itself was glazed, yellow as a cat's... The black slit of its pupil opened on a pit" that what frodo sees in the mirror of Galadriel among other things>>10994246

>>10994256
>>10994247

>>10994250
Even your choice of phrasing when trying to appear otherwise just reaffirms you are deeply stupid.

>>10994190
You think Tolkien was cruel and wanted that to happen to Frodo? He would pour his heart into the shire which is basically a romantic middle-England and her people, whom Tolkien loves, and fuck over a character?
I don't think Tolkien enjoyed what happened to Frodo but it was needed for the story because it was driven by what Tolkien thought ought to take place within the world he created not what he wanted to happen. That difference is what I was referring to when I called it a simulation, sorry that wasn't clear

>>10994256
Also at amon hen "and suddenly he felt the eye. There was an eye in the dark tower that did not sleep"

Now to me the eye isn't a literal thing but a representation of Sauron and his oppressive gaze and power. It could also be what his spirit appears to look like.

>>10994265
Help me not be stupid then please. These question were honest, I'm sorry they looked aggressive or born from irritation.

>>10994282
I don't want to help you. Which is just as well, as you cannot be helped.

>>10994246
Isulting me because I remember saurons descriptions from the books... and I'm the brainlet

>>10994292
Fair enough, I shall be pic related until I die. Good luck with whatever the fuck it is you're doing right now

>>10994246
universal literacy was a mistake
one can clearly see why Tolkien didn't want his full works published

>>10994256
>"in the black abyss there appeared a single eye that slowly grew"
I am not necessarily disagreeing with you anon. You could be correct that it is a "corporeal eye," but what you described is evidence that it *could* be a physical eye, but doesn't *have* to be one, as the instances that you listed might be interpreted (correctly) as being metaphorical.

Is there any evidence of this being interpreted as a "literal" eye, rather than a metaphorical one? If not, your position might not hold up.

Sorry anon. I am borderline autistic when it comes to these things. I don't expect you to have the saga memorized, but what else do you have?

>>10994360
Hmmm, well from the top of my head I can't think of anything and having just quickly flicked through the chapters in which sam and frodo travel through mordor nothing is coming up. So in saying sauron was a 'corporeal' eye I was wrong. However he is clearly described as an eye on numerous occasions so im going to say I'm equally right and wrong.

>>10994378
>in saying sauron was a 'corporeal' eye I was wrong
ehh you might not be wrong anon. I'm not the one who said "film fag" and that anon might be correct, but it doesn't seem like it based on what you posted.

Still the question remains:
Did Tolkien fuck over Frodo?

>>10994378
>>10994398

Looking in to it, the dark tower is described as being veiled in shadow as sauron wishes to hide himself. And sam also notes that frodo left hand would often be raised in the air "to screen his shrinking eyes from a dreadful eye that sought to look in them"

So if sauron did appear as a corporeal eye he has shielded himself from sight. However the fact that frodo shields his eyes from saurons suggests it is a physical thing looming above mordor. This could just be in the wraith world and frodo having the ring being able to see it.

But the wording makes it semi if sam van see and is aware of the eye as if it was corporeal

>At the end FUCKING TOLKEIN makes Frodo fundamentally fail
Frodo isn't real anon. Tolkien made all that shit up from the start.

>>10994426
>Frodo isn't real anon.
>in a work of fiction

Fuck off anon. How does something like this get so popular and how is it so well received if the main character gets dicked in the end?

Go back to the shadow

>>10994398
I don't think tolkien fucked over frodo, for do bore the ring much longer than anyone expected him to and longer than was thought possible. The effects it had on him are clear towards the end of the book eventually corrupting enough into trying to claim the ring as his own. After the rings was taken forcefully from him (which is noted in the fellowship in the ring to likely brake the person it was taken from mind) the effects would have still remained, for instance gollum. Gollum was recovering but was still obsessed with the ring. After the rings destruction the effects would have been greatly lesser on frodo.

But another key reason for frodo condition was the wound from the morgul blade he received at weather top. In moria it is even noted that frodo senses were improved. The wound left him slightly in the wraith world permenantly and the anniversary of the rings destruction and the receiving of the wound (October 22ish and spring)

Because of the effects these two things and his services in bearing the ring, the eves and vala of valinor allowed frodo to come live there in what is literally paridise. Other notable non elves that went to valinor is Gimli.

Frodo wasn't fucked over and what happened makes sense

>>10994444
QUADS BOIS.

Also i meant to say on the anniversary of these events frodo would get very sick

I swear if this thread is dead after I wrote all that and got quads...

>>10994480
it's not dead, (You) literally did
/thread

>>10994496
Uhhh what's /thread?

>>10993781
the eye glow meme is tired, and was never anything more than embarassing pretension none of you have intensity or the ability to incite fear in others with a gaze, and that ability is probably limited to a select few males in prison and the military at this juncture in history. what a gay fucking affect

>>10994444

>>10994498
Oh looked it up, feels good

Depressing thread.

Sauron was not a literal eye, as is made obvious to anyone of the slightest discernment who has read the book. This is made abundantly clear by 2 characters in particular who have actually seen him, Gollum and Aragorn. Gollum describes Sauron as having fingers during his torture in Barad-dur, consistent with the form Sauron had as he lost the ring originally.
>four fingers on the Black Hand, but they are enough,' said Gollum shuddering
And Aragorn after looking into one of the Palantir, which if you're not retarded you understand the Ithil Stone is likely the actual "eye" Frodo feels, meets Sauron when he goads him into challenge thinking Aragorn claimed the ring for his own. Aragorn also describes Sauron as having physical form. There are a few other instances that suggest something similar but these are the most direct and indisputable, the confusion itt is pretty pathetic but I suppose also to be expected given most people can't deal with more than 1 or 2 layers of metaphor, and the Eye of Sauron is like 5 (or maybe even 6 I don't even know). And of course thanks to Peter Jackson. There's a large amount of symbolic depth to the eye thing, it's meant to represent a sort of omnipotence of Sauron, it embodies his forces (literally, they are unified through his will) and there's a whole sees all knows all sort of thing, all for the cheap irony of him actually being a Deceiver (his title of old), and being deceived unable to comprehend good anymore.

bad things happen to good people

>>10993781
going to Valinor was considered an enormous privilege.
Not sure if he was able to live there, immortal, or if he just spend his old age there and died, regardless, he, Bilbo, and Gimli are the only non-elves given that honor. (okay, and Tuor too, iirc)

>>10993954
Ungoliant tried to kill off Melkor in Lammoth(?), which is north-western Beleriand, because he promised her the silmarils, a promise he reneged on.
The balrogs heard him screaming in pain (he was getting his butt handed to him by a girl) and rescued him in time.
Ungoliant fled to the mountain range north of Doriath, in southern Dorthonian, which was renamed "Nan Dungortheb".
She gave birth to lots of giant spiders (presumably Shelob is part of this batch, but it's never stated), and eventually consumed herself when she ran out of food.

>>10994692
Wow what a heaven, you live among foreigners and not among your Hobbit frens

>>10994774
99% of hobbits were dumb bumpkin shits

>>10993916
https://mapsburgh.tumblr.com/post/151687211976/frodo-didnt-fail

>>10994692
Dunno why everyone thinks he went to Valinor.
He was mortal, so Tollers may have meant that he went to Eressëa until he died.
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Forum:Did_Frodo_and_Bilbo_go_to_Valinor_or_Tol_Eress%C3%ABa%3F

>>10993781
>sad ending
>moral failure of the author

>>10993781
damn the boy...

>>10993912
catholics are christians you mongoloid

dumb anime poster

>wanting a character to be a Mary Sue
How stupid are you?

>>10995695
>Mary Sue
What the fuck are you on about? Living peacefully in the Shire even after kind of failing his quest wouldn't make Frodo a Mary Sue you fucking nigger.

If this is b& it's at least 6.5/10

>>10995710
sorry but posting non-anime doesn't make you less dumb

>>10994256
>>10994143
See
>>10994610

>>10995722
It's obvious that you don't understand what a Mary Sue is, nor much of Frodo's character if you think him getting what he wants in the end makes him a Mary Sue.

Anyways nice b& here's your (You) and thanks for the bump

>>10995550
actually, you're right, he did only go to Tol Eressea, along with the other Elves that left Middle Earth during the Second and Third Age, although, i'm not sure if that meant they could only travel about on the island, or whether they were allowed to visit other places.
however, Tol Eressea was considered part of "Valinor", or at least part of "the West", even though it wasn't on the mainland.
it was still part of the land removed from the confines of Arda after the destruction of Numenor, and only inhabited by immortals.

>>10994317
The LotR movies were pretty good though. Hobbit movies just seem like they were designed to make money.

This scene was much better than it was in the book.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9skYkQfAwus

>>10995912
Yeah that's not fair though, Boromir was by far the best character in the film.

>>10993781
Entirely arse-backwards. Frodo deserves the punishment the author (pbuh) hands out to him for the sin of existing in the fallen world of middle earth but hiding away in the shire and avoiding the responsibilities of existence. If anything, Frodo should have gone into Mount Doom too.

>>10994020
Just so you know, the elves first appeared in Middle Earth, and later some groups went to Valinor. The 'High Elves' or 'Light Elves' are those who have been to Valinor (light referring to the light of the two trees), while the Dark Elves never left Middle Earth.

Frodo did not get a happy ending. He was completely fucked by the enduring influence of two very powerful malevolent magic items - the One Ring and the morgul knife upon Weathertop. It was determined that a life in the undying lands, with the best of elven healing and wholesome atmosphere, was the only way to make the rest of his life bearable.

>>10994180
What do you mean about the elves? While mortals will perish, even in Valinor (this is explicitly stated in The Silmarillion), elves are immortal and will live until the world's end.

>>10995912
>The LotR movies were pretty good though
no they weren't please watch some real cinema you brainlet

>>10996062
Ah yes, I'm sure /tv/tier trite is truly some real cinema. But yeah, overall they weren't that good, but many individual scenes were fantastic.

>>10993781
>hero is a good guy
>hero undergoes hardships
>hero is changed at the end of his journey
>ASDLDFGH AUTHOR BAD GUY

>>10996078
the Jackson trilogy couldn't be more generic, there are no characters, just archetypes and comic relief

think i might get round to reading the lord of the rings books
read the hobbit like 3 times when i was younger
started the fellowship a couple of years ago and stopped for some reason (can't remember why, i was genuinely liking it)
think i'll try and read them over the summer
question is are they really worth it?

>>10994062
Dude just accept the Silmarillion. There's a reason why people say LOTR is its own mythos complete with cosmogony and deific elements

>>10993912
Lel

>>10994124
Feanor wasn't an ubermensch he was an impulsive faggot that ruined his entire race

>muh jewels niggah

>>10996337
>defy literal gods
>be the best at literally everything
>happily risk your life and the lives of everyone you know for your beliefs
>die with zero regrets knowingly urging your sons onto certain doom out of sheer defiance and spite
>such an overpowering force of will that your body literally combusts as your soul leaves it and the enormity of your deeds and their consequences causes Mandos to hold you captive longer than all others
Feanor was uber as fuck.

Then many quailed; but Feanor hardened his heart and said: 'We have sworn, and not lightly. This oath we will keep. We are threatened with many evils, and treason not least; but one thing is not said: that we shall suffer from cowardice, from cravens or the fear of cravens. Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda.'

>>10994184

No he wasn't- he was a coward who hid in his neet tower after getting driven out of his neet tower at Mirkwood

>>10994610

Holy fuck I'm a brainlet. I only just realized that both Sauron and Frodo lost the ring due to their fingers being removed

>>10996765
>>defy literal gods
Reminder that Ar Pharazon did nothing wrong.

>>10993802
*Athiests are psycotic and vengeful.

>>10993781
>All of this autism funemenyslly missing common mythological archetypes that Tolkien was referencing

I just can you go bring your brainlet tier nonsense somewhere else?

>>10996822
Care to give an example or two?

dude
bad things happen to good people
if bad things only happen to bad people in your book your book is a shallow mess
or just some fairy tale

>>10996805
It's sort of a recurring theme, look at Beren and the Silmaril.

>>10996807
>live in the absolute pinnacle of prosperity and power ever known to most beings
>get completely bamboozled by some husk of a Maiar you thought'd tamed and made your bitch
>purely out of greed and cowardice, for want of more years to practice more degeneracy, look to invade the holy lands of the very powers that succored you and your people
>nothing wrong

>>10996902
Of course I exclude the part where this resulted in countless lives lost and the destruction of his homeland alongside the total dishonor of his lineage. But hey, Sauron said it was a good idea! Look how it worked out for him.

>>10994610
>be the most powerful being in all of middle earth
>risk everything to make a piece of bling
what did Sauron mean by this?

test

>>10996273
Ja

>>10996337
https://jonathansmcintosh.wordpress.com/2011/10/04/feanors-nietzscheanism-dionysianism/
Read.

>>10993781
Did Tolkien claim that Frodo's leaving the Shire was the result of his having done something wrong?

>>10993781

>being mad frodo gets to live with bilbo and the elves forever.
>gets to stay cozy and comfy forever and ever the end
>sam gets familylife in shire, and can enjoy that to fullest with frodo gone
>hard to be hobbit of the burrow when you're some ones else's gardener right?
>did his duty to the end, got rewarded.
>frodo gets what he wants
>to hang out with his awesome old uncle and the elves
>Tokeins ending is best ending.

>>10999670
>being mad frodo gets to live with bilbo and the elves forever.
It's explicitly stated Frodo, Bilbo, and Gimli all die in Valinor.

>re-reading TFotR for the first time in over a decade
>in disbelief as the tone and intonation of the prose
>the words are extremely simple and it reads like a fairy tale
What the fuck, I thought people complained Tolkien was long winded and used esoteric language, certainly I remembered his works as being "higher" than this seems. Not that I believe it's bad, but it's very approachable and quaint, people say the Hobbit is a children's story and this is more so the language I'd expect to encounter reading it than the actual trilogy.
>tfw faced with the fact I only thought highly of Tolkien because I was a stupid kid at the time

>>10994181
>Tolkien is a Christian who believes in original sin so he basically can't wrap his head around the idea of someone not being a dick without some sort of divine intervention.
Read Hobbes.

>>11001687
Free will is kind of a big deal in Christianity dude.

>>10994093
>the individual is not everything

imagine being spooked this hard

>>10994093
>This isn't your Marvel's The Avengers anon
yeah it's even worse

>>11002102
It's a fact that none could have accomplished the quest of the ring on their own. Deal with it faggot, there is merit to other's.

>used to love The Lord of the Rings in my youth
>it becomes alien over time as I realize it's fundamentally about friendship and exploring the world
>character interactions feel incomprehensible and distant
Sauron makes more sense.

>>10993855
>giving up the gift of men to go to valinor
Shiggy diggy

>your greatest gift is being able to die
Thanks God.

>lotr thread
>people complaining

wheres the good tolkein threads

>>10994196
>Reminder that lotr has nothing to do with some kike religion.
Loooooooooollllll