/lit/ - Literature

>>10974446
terrible

>>10974446
I was thinking the same thing since I want to read him but I haven't heard anyone even describe what his writing is like and from what I've skimmed over it doesn't look interesting imo.

>>10974446
fictive-biographical

>>10974446
Dark, poetic, literary.

>>10974467
Are you kidding? It's totally worth a read, Anon.

>>10974446
best LatAm writer of the past 25 years.

>>10974446
Infrarealist.
https://launiversidaddesconocida.wordpress.com/manifesto-of-infrarealism/

>>10974446
poetic

He always does this: youre just reading fine and then he fucks your shit up with some cool poetic figure inside a morgue report, or some segue of autistic repetitions, or some unexpected awesome dialog. But its all organic, so you dont feel manipulated, but i feel hes very manipulative and knows exactly what hes doing not with his prose, but with the meta elements of prose.

Aaaaaaalso he doesnt judge or pontificates, thats some big stuff. Looking up for articles on 666, i stumbled upon a couple demanding a more "involved" description of the women rapes and slaughtering, aka. taking sides and saying that stuff was so so bad, but he aint like that, thank god.

>>10974456
kys

>>10974446
I would describe his writing as "Somewhat clever" and "latin- american-sounding"

>>10974649
agree with this and the follow-up comment

He's got an insanely powerful flow in 2666. It's like drone metal in a way, if you know what I mean. Strangely soothing in its matter-of-fact presentation. Chunks of prose that carry you along with their plain, but learned, unpretentious language and suddenly deliver you to beautiful poetic moments and bits of profound musings.

>>10974860
just got curious: how did they translate "Lalo Cura"s name to english?

>>10974860
>It's liked rone metal
Funny that you mention it, because he used to listen to heavy metal or at least hard and loud music while he wrote.

>>10974860
>It's like drone metal in a way, if you know what I mean
yeah, its a steamroller. slow but very heavy and ultimately, inescapable.

>>10974446
this guy got taken terrific photos.

>>10974891
Edward Cura. Lalo is a hypocoristic of Eduardo

>>10975002
>Edward Cura
t. didnt read the book.

>>10975002
>>10974891
>>10975032

Lalo Cura is a pun. The phrase "La locura" means "the madness", but Lalo cura also means "Lalo cures". That's probably why he's asking how they did it in English,

Where do I start with Bolano.

I read maybe half of The Savage Detectives in two goes. Stopped both times just because life gets in the way and my studies. The first time I stopped maybe during Juan Maderos super visceral sex scenes with that girl something Font. was it the older sister? That shit was so good. Picked it up again from around that point and went until either Arturo and Lima were drinking some special tequila with a guy. Or it might have been during the university shutdown bit. I'm not really sure but either way both instances I became entirely absorbed by this book. Do I start again or do I read it from where I last remember?

Does he have any shorter books of the same enthralling nature?

>>10974860
>He's got an insanely powerful flow in 2666. It's like drone metal in a way,
zeitgeist

>>10974456
>>10974472
>>10974480
>>10974556
>>10974645
>>10974759

Are you kidding me? These are not description of a prose, you halfwit plebs. People are always discussing about how beautiful prose is on this board and this is the best you can do? What the fuck does "poetic" mean? That it is in metric? That it has rhymes? A 16 years old would describe prose as "poetic". Grow a brain and become articulate when you have opinions. What does it mean that the prose of a novel is "literary"? It's a fucking novel.
What is "somewhat clever"? What the fuck does it mean? How do you build a sentence to make it sound clever? And what the fuck is "latin-american sounding" for god's sake? Are you surprised he sounds latin american considered that he writes in fucking spanish? Do you even listen to the sound of your own sentences when you write "a latin american novel sounds latin american"?

>>10974860

Now this guy at least tried using a couple of metaphors and talked about the prose. But it is a shame that almost nobody beside him described anything about Bolano's prose. What about how he articulates sentences? What about the structure of the paragraphs? What about the flow of the dialogues? You guys didn't even bother to underline whether sentences are long and articulated or short and to the point, which is high-school tier prose discussion. And how are the sentences structured, does he use subordinates or coordinates and why - what does that mean for the book, what is he trying to convey?

You have disappointed me to the utmost degree and are all a bunch of fucking pseuds. Hang your copy of Ulysses to a nail and go back playing videogames, because that's the only thing you can probably do.

Overwritten, too thick and edgy. Córtazar is far better regarding this game.

>>10974891
They left it untranslated but explained the pun.

>>10975954
>>10975954

Long, dilettant and unsufferable like Drone Metal indeed. Could have been insightful - he tries to catch the phenomenon of evil by the heavy mist of his dense prose, yet get nothing in exchange but a semi mastered style where everything is about vertigo and atmosphere

It's worth to pay the efort if you want to get the change in vanity's coins.

I think Córtazar do it much better bc he conveys coherence and repetition-games to build his obsessive mirror-world where the word barely sustain to catch the sort of ineffable presence he tries to summon - being, like Bolaño cnscious of the absence and compelled like him not to do it in vain
Though, Julio succeed

>>10975833
Btfo

>>10975540
>Does he have any shorter books of the same enthralling nature?
Distant Star and By Night in Chile are enthralling and shorter.

>>10975833
>What the fuck does "poetic" mean? That it is in metric? That it has rhymes?
The imagery it hints at it's poetic.

>>10976196

Except imagery has little to do with prose. Imagery is about the topic of the book - the things prose refers to. Prose is about structure, tone and sound of the sentences and what they convey about the book.

>>10976196
Imagery can't be "poetic", you mongoloid trash.

>>10976246
Why not? If can, if it is symbolic and beautiful.

>>10976257

an imagery can't be properly described as something "poetic"
it's like interpreting a melody as something "musical"

screencapped to remind you of the absolute state of this board. You're welcome

>>10974467
>from what i skimmed over

You may have short attention span. If you;re looking to be wowed by every single line, there are definitely writers out there that will do that. Other writers are more wide and take their time, their work is more about the overall structure and endgame. Bolaño is one of those.

You wont find incredible technicality in it, but the atmosphere and creativity in it are great. He creates worlds without the "world building" in subpar fantasy novels, and makes these worlds believable with details, not flourishes. Granted he can be a bit too romantic, dramatic, even overly pessimistic at times, but it's still great stuff.

>>10975002
>Edward Cura

>>10976190
>Distant Star and By Night in Chile
Not that anon but thanks for the recommendation

>>10976715
"Latin American sounding" takes the cake .

>>10976715
Well, tbf, he did write poems.

>>10977229

Is this in any way helpful to support the claim that prose can be poetic or to explain how it can be so? If yes, please expand. Because up to this point, neither you nor anyone in this thread who has claimed Bolano's prose was poetic put forward a convincing argument for why it is so and what does it mean.

>>10977379
Why would you say it isn't poetic?

If he is poetic let me see excerpts from his work that can prove it (I have read his poems and they are mediocre).

>>10977402

I have never claimed once that Bolano's prose is not poetic. I have rightly called out the pseuds who used the adjective "poetic" without any further explanation of what does it mean for prose to be "poetic" as the pseuds they are.

If you are able to explain how Bolano's prose is poetic, please go on. How does it possess the qualities of poetry, and what qualities of poetry does it possess? Can you please quote a paragraph or at least some sentences and explain to me what do you mean when you say that his prose his poetic? It is surely not written in verse, for what I can say, being prose. So maybe you can give me some insight on what you mean?

On /lit/ every time people talk about an author people go on about this and that guy having good prose or not and what is coming out of this thread is that there are very few anons capable of giving a well-thought answer on how someone's prose is good or not (or how to describe it in general).
What I have seen in this thread so far is a bunch of pseuds describing prose with words that sound cool (poetic, dark, literary, latin american) without providing any explanation - and I am not asking for technical ones, I would be perfectly satisfied with ameteurish descriptions, as long as you care to say something rather than just trying hard to sound like an intellectual.

>>10977433
>his poetry is mediocre therefore not poetic.
Alright.

>>10977379
Poetic doesn't necessarily mean stanzas or meters, the word can be used to describe a flow or style. Camus is not very poetic, Dickens can be poetic, Ulysses is poetic in a more technical way, where as Lowry's Under the Volcano in a different way. Ya dig? It's more about the "prettyness" or "beauty" innit?

>>10977451
why are you so triggered? granted yes, there seems to be little explanation or description (but there is) of Bolaño's prose, but the books are available everywhere and you can probably find an epub easily, just read one of his short stories or novellas which are great, and find out for yourself.

stop getting mad at nothing.

>>10977551

If he isn't great with metaphors I'm not interested

>>10977565
>Metaphorshitter

maybe r/writingprompts is more your style.

>>10977620

Shakespeare is the greatest for a reason.

If a poet can't into metaphors he shouldn't be a poet.

So, what happened to young poet Garcia Madero?

Visceral Realism.

>>10977657
His dream failed and he went to law school and became a lawyer, I guess.

he writes kino

>>10974446
Depends on the book. Each one is different, which is what I enjoy about him.

A Little Lumpen Novelita was more in the vein of Hemingway: terse sentences that complement that youth, lack of education, and depression of the narrator and protagonist Bianca. But then you read By Night in Chile and the narrator is a highly educated literary critic, poet, and priest recalling his life and glossing over his complicity in the Pinochet regime with more exquisite language. The sentences are longer, flowing, and the anecdotes send the reader all over from the Austro-Hungarian shoemaker to shit hawks and after dark literary meetings. In fact, the whole thing reads like one long monologue, a death-bed confession (if it wasn't an apologia), with no chapter breaks. Less room to breathe, to think, and that's perhaps the aim of Father Urrutia. When people say it's "poetic," I believe what they mean is lyrical and allusive, sometimes witty. After all, Fr. Urrutia is a poet.

Distant Star and the stories in The Insufferable Gaucho were likewise different beasts. So it seems to me that it's difficult to describe Bolaño's prose outside of one word: versatile. He tailors his style to the situation, and gives consideration to who is telling the story.

I'd cite examples, but I lent my copies to a friend. Maybe when I read The Savage Detectives and 2666 I can speak to his aesthetics in more depth.

Overrated

>>10975954
Ive been reading Cortázars short stories and they get rather boring after a while, is Bolaño similar?

>>10979606
Read The Return by Bolaño, which is my opinion his best short story, and see for yourself ;)

>>10975833
You sound like Juan Garcia madero in the first part

>buncha fags that read bolaño in english pontificate

fuck off

>>10977564

I have read savage detectives and 2666 and I know how Bolano's prose is. The reason I am triggered is not because I really really want people to tell me how the prose is, but because every time I browse /lit/ there's always some idiot going on about how the prose of this or that author is beautiful - but here, when it comes to describe the prose of an author with a fairly simple style, the best you come out is "poetic" "dark" "clever-sounding".


>>10977551
I know the word can be used to describe style, and saying that it describes "beauty" or "prettyness" is the same as saying that being poetic is a positive quality of a prose - which again, says nothing about what is it of a sentence that makes it poetic. Do you guys not know grammar? Do you not know how a sentence is build, that you have been unable to provide a description of what disposition of elements make a sentence beautiful in your opinion, after 24 hours?

>>10979746
Kek

>>10977564
>mad at nothing
He's very clear about what he's getting mad at, and he has every reason to.

>>10980359
Roast me >>10979247

>>10981248
Whos that jizzabel?

>>10982336
An ideal to strive for.

>>10982374
Looks very 90s, a very comfy fuck in a 90s library.

>>10982384
Tell me about Bolaño in the stacks over there...

>>10982388
"Always listen carefully, Anon, to the words women say while they're being fucked. If they don't talk, fine, then you have nothing to listen and probably you'll have nothing to think about, but if they do speak, even a whispering, listen to their words and think about them, and think about their meaning, think about what they say and what they don't, try to understand what they really want to say. Women are murdering whores, Anon, they are frozen stiff monkeys gazing at the horizon from a sick tree, they are princesses who go after you in the dark, crying, inquiring into the words they could never say."

>>10982540
Remind me to buy The Return once we're done. My library doesn't seem to have a copy.

>>10979247
>>10981248

Your comment was perfect and if possible I would love you physically. I do not want to attack you because you said poetic means "lyrical" and "allusive" (which you could expand a bit on) because you at least can distinguish terse sentences from long ones and motivate why you think they are so. Saying more would not be bad, but at least you are providing explanations and actually engaging with the reasons for using a certain prose in a board which rants about prose at every best occasion and seem incapable to account for its own opinions.

>>10982561

are you oinopa by the way?

Tell, don't show.

>>10974663
I'm not insulting him for this, but at times his prose becomes almost repulsive due to how non-judgemental and amoral it is. He can describe extremely tense and violent situations with more neutrality than anything else I've ever seen. Also, good points.

>>10975833
This is kinda autistic but anon is absolutely right.

>>10979247
>>10976789


>>10974446
Are you fucking happy Anon? any more from you will be considered as the highest amount of autism which you have been displaying here, thanks to your little childish rants. This thread can die now.

>>10982693
I'll take the feedback to heart, anon. I genuinely appreciate it, because I've been trying to hone my ability to actually criticize things. I had some notes in the books, but like I said, I lent them out.

As for lyrical I wouldn't want to simply say "beautiful," because that's not helpful. I'd say that it's more about the rhythm, that there's an aspect of music to it, best if read aloud. I haven't read 2666, but some anon above (>>10974860) likened the prose in that drone metal. I'll have to find out for myself one day, but By Night in Chile was a different beast altogether. However, there are recurring images, like a musical refrain, and here I'm thinking of the wizened youth and the attention paid to the moon. There's also parallels that I noticed in certain scenes (Fr. Farewell & Urrutia in the beginning, and then Urrutia with Pinochet later on, outside talking). It's stream of consciousness - that much is obvious - but you need to pay attention to what Urrutia leaves out as much as includes; for example, he mentions very little of his involvement in Opus Dei outside of him being a more "liberal" member, and portrays himself as just happening upon situations like teaching Marxism to Pinochet. As the story progresses it gets more feverish and it's apparent he's unreliable as can be when he gets to the man in that room. That's perhaps what I mean by allusive: Urrutia speaks of things in a way that distances them, or doesn't make them fully clear, which makes it difficult to ascertain his level of complicity in Chile's politics.

Again, I contrast this novel with Lumpen Novelita because they're freshest in my mind. Bianca's account is more intimate, more diary like, as if she's recording events. It's after the fact, of course, just like Urrutia in Chile, but comes across as more honest. She's less malicious than the Libyan and Bolognian in her part with the bodybuilder's money.


Also, I'm a bit prudish IRL, though I'm sure you could break my shell.

>>10982698
Nah, I'm just some Canadian male longing to be a trad-wife/part-time librarian.

>>10984500
wtf I love Canadians now

>>10984514
It's a milquetoast nation. Winter is not as comfy as pictures suggest. If I were to move anywhere it would be Victoria, B.C., because I imagine it would be more temperate along the Pacific coast.

I actually do consume maple syrup daily.

How does his work like The Skating Rink, The Third Reich, Woes of the True Policeman, and others compare to the larger novels like The Savage Detectives and 2666? I'm planning on reading them eventually, but would like some input from others. Also, I'd like to bump this thread because there are too many meme threads and this one has more potential for actual discussion.

>>10984807
Haven't read Third Reich nor Woes (I'm kinda dubious about reading his posthumous books other than 2666, which unlike the other posthumous books, was pretty much completed). But I've read Distant Star and By Night in Chile and liked them. A Little Lumpen Novella is also a comfy little read. Also I have Skating Rink waiting for me. Some people even consider Distant Star his best book, and I can see why.

>>10974446
It's worth noticing he's written from the perspective of women (A Little Lumpen Novella, Amulet) and homosexual men (The Woes of the True Policeman), too.

>>10984888
I've read By Night in Chile, Distant Star, A Little Lumpen Novelita, and The Insufferable Gaucho. 2666 is on my shelf. The others I mentioned are at the library.

Have you read any of the short story collections? I'm planning on reading it all, and might even check out the book Chris Andrews wrote about his fiction.

So, what was his day like? Ive seen some interviews and a spanish docu on him. Did he wake up and immediately write? Did he meditate? Did he get drunk as fuck to write? Did he get just coffee and cigarettes? Im very interested in his creative process.

>>10984974
Yes, I have a book with three of his short story collections in Spanish, although I have to admit I haven't read them all. It was pretty weird the way they collected them in English, but so far I like The Return and Snow, both collected in The Return. Some consider The Return his best short story.

>>10984978
I don't know his exact routine but a friend (and ex-literary agent) of his, said he used to listen to loud music with headphones while writing, he says it was probably heavy metal.

>>10985022
>loud music with headphones
seems to be a practice i need to get in my life. way too much noise from the outside, the fucking neighbors and their fucking dogs, cant get into a good flow of thought.

>>10985022
are you friendo of that pony tail faggot that is always talking about Bolano?

>>10985039
Ignacio Echevarría? He's my uncle! lol just kidding why would I know that guy, I just saw a video of him mentioning that fact.

>>10985028
>>10984978
He used to write at night.

>>10985075
yeah that one.

By what I see in every video of Bolano, all of his friends were a buch of creeps and/or weirdos.

Btw he used to spend a lot of time playing risk. r some game like that. kek.

>>10985091
Yeah, he liked war games and even wrote a book about that (The Third Reich), as well as computer games like Age of Empires and Civilization lol

>>10985111
... he was one of us.

I have to get that book.

>>10985012
I guess I'll truly have to buy The Return now. Someone quoted it at me above, too. Part of me has been curious even to check out those unauthorized interview books, but I need to resist how people may be cashing in on him. I can justify supporting New Directions, though, because my tastes tends to dovetail nicely with what they publish.

God I hate how I get infatuated with certain authors sometimes and can't do anything to shake it. If anyone ever comes to my place it's just going to be a stack of Bolaño books and some Hemingway and Fitzgerald hardcovers my grandma passed to me. I try not to own a lot.

bump, best thread atm

>>10977451
Maybe they’re not capable, maybe they don’t give a shit, maybe your grandmother sucks eggs.

>>10974446
This thread was quite the rollercoaster lol

>>10984500

I'm also a bit prudish, let's break each other's shells ;)

>>10985797
Send me lewd messages on Goodreads, or bully me for having read a lot of bullshit trying to find something that interests me:

>https://www.goodreads.com/user/show/79865030-shauna-trannonica

I need some inspiration. Boss me around, senpai.

bump

>>10986222

Just added you boi, I'm going to boss you around as if you were one of the sexy librarians you keep posting and I was the good-looking, sadistic albeit socially inept director of the aforementioned library.

>>10986467
i-i better keep things in proper order then, boss. I'll do my best. But you'll read your Bolaño, r-right?

Anywho, back to my reading...

>>10986222
I want to rape you.

>>10986544

I have already read my Bolano, as I snaid before it is you who didn't read 2666... And if there is one thing I dislike more than kids using cool-sounding words to describe prose is librarians who don't do their homework. Maybe I should punish you?

>>10986549

Goddamn man, learn how to roleplay a bit, this answer is the written version of a guy cumming too soon

>>10986549
Little boy, you should let the grown ups have their fun.

>>10986572
w-what kind of punishment? i-i'm pretty vulnerable now that you know what I have and haven't had my hands on...

>>10984807
>>10984888
Ice Rink and Distant Star are amazing, with Star being one of his best.

>>10985091
How do you know they're creeps and weirdos? you know them?

>>10986629

I'll give you something to put your hands on: pick a copy of 2666 and open it on that table.
No, don't sit. Bend on it, open the first page. I will punish you corporally, using my library director horsewhip™ to punish you. Each of us has a horsewhip to punish lazy librarians, there's no need to ask around if these are normal practices in other libraries. Of course they are.
Now lift your skirt a little and start reading. Every time you stumble over your words, I'll whip you.

>>10986800
*bends over*
*opens first page*

"The first time that Jean-Claude Pelletier read Benno von Archimboldi was Christmas 1980, in Paris, when he was nineteen years old and studying German literature. The book in question was D'Arsonval. The young Pelletier didn't realize at the time that the novel was part of a thrilogy-

*lifts skirt*

"- (made up of the English-themed The Garden and the Polish-themed The Leather Mask, together with the clearly French-themed D'Arsonval), but this ignorance or lapse or bibiographical lacuna, attributable only to his extreme youth, did nothing to diminish the wonder and admiration the novel stirred in him."

Do you have a Spanish edition, anon, or should I continue in English?

>>10986851

*whips buttcheek*

I didn't tell you to stop.

>>10975833
lmao /lit/ pseuds btfo for once.

>>10986649
you have to see the conferences were people talks about Bolano. There is always one or 2 friends of him.

And this was his best friend. (is some character in the savage detectives), this weirdo used to read poetry while showering.

>>10987007

ULISES LIMA YOU ARE STILL ALIVE YOU UGLY MOTHERFUCKER

>>10986886
"From that day on (or from the early morning hours when he concluded his maiden reading) he became an enthusiastic Archimboldian and set out in a quest to find more works by the author. This was no easy task. Getting hold of books by Benno-"

Y'know, I've been thinking. Given my, um, biology, this tryst can only ever get "Joycean," if you catch my meaning, sir. So, um, I just thought I'd let you know... I've spent a lot of time bent over this book now and, uhmm...

>>10987105
you wrote this, right? lol

>>10987105
>>10987127

>>10987127
>>10987131
Holy fuck I really did not. Should I sue, or could I be sued? Is this real life, or some twisted ass meta-literary? Honest to goodness I'm truly spooked, anon.

>>10987127
That looks like some biology textbook not 2666 lol

>>10987136
Don't worry, I saw it in a thread a few weeks ago lol it's like 2 bucks in amazon mexico.

>>10987150
Just some Jungian synchronicity, nbd

>>10987105

I see you stopped again. You force me to resort to something harder than a whip, dear.

*unbuttons corduroy trousers with calculated calm*

Here. You'll have your Joycean punishment now. And yes, as the Irish bard said, I'll fuck the "big fat fellows, long windy ones, quick little merry cracks and a lot of tiny little naughty farties ending in a long gush" out of you.

>>10987182
Hmmm, yes, call me Nora[1], and take me from swerve of shore to bend of bay (bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoord-enenthurnuk!)
[1] Actually, for a natal male I'm much more attractive than she was, and more virginal, too. Am I governed by lines of intellect, or curves of emotion?

>>10987223

*whispering, because it's still a library*

"Nora, my faithful darling, my seet-eyed blackguard schoolgirl, be my whore, my mistress, as much as you like (my little frigging mistress! My little fucking whore!) you are always my beautiful wild flower of the hedges, my dark-blue rain-drenched flower."

>>10976715
Solid work, anon. Much obliged

>>10987223
>>10987105

Wait, wait, is she a he? Is this a trap? I assumed from the pics that she was a girl. Oh well. If he looks feminine i-it's not gay, right...?

>>10987269
Start with the Greeks, anon, and bow down before your queen, /lit/.

>>10987269
>>10987279
Wrong pic.

>>10987269
what would a girl do on /lit/? lol

>>10987243
*maple syrup mistress

I am still Canadian, my bard

>>10987296

I mean, I thought he was roleplaying as a girl. Which is what traps do actually :(

>>10987310
>>10984500
>Nah, I'm just some Canadian male longing to be a trad-wife/part-time librarian.

I should have put male in quotations.

>>10987319
Are you an actual librarian? That's cool. That's like a sort of heaven for a reader. All that time to read.

>>10987329
Oh, no, I'm not. That's just part of what I'm desiring to do. My actual job is one I sorted of ended up in. More mundane, but leaves me with plenty of time to read. I actually spend a lot of time at the lib, though, and donate books that they don't have by Aira, Bolaño, Hassan Blasim, etc. And I've published in an encyclopedia,, which was neat. I'm fighting off a bout of depression and considering going back to school, so maybe I will take library science and fulfil my dreams (sort of- can't get a womb and be a dutiful mother/wife). In the meantime I guess I'll have to settle for being /lit/'s resident tranny.

On that note, off to work.

>>10987303

>He had read of androgyny, its meaning, how it was symbol for merging of opposites - and that was she, he, the coincidence, the ever-prophetic aligning of planets, the maple-scented center of all. After years among books there he found her, he found him, life still untouched, life not unravelling in conflict, not yet. There he found gathered perfection. Together with love there was fear, pain together with pleasure, pain where fourteen among bullets and shrapnels connected like stars constellating his flesh, pleasure where his body encountered hers-his. Only war, before, had gifted him with the confusion of meanings, with overwhelming, unstoppable folly, with furor and fear merged in one - the laugh and the battlecry - under the showers of fire and thunders. And now this body, his body, her body was war, it was furor and fear - golden dawns on the wheat-fields and sunset sanguine on the fights he had fought. That body he whipped, like his body had been whipped. That body he pierced, like his body had been pierced.

le bump

>>10987440
Welp, I've melted. Thanks, anon :S

>>10989170
What do you think of this new pocket Spanish editon of 2666? How would you interpret this cover as opposed to the story? I'm interested in what you have to say Anon.

>>10989170
What do you think of this new pocket Spanish editon of 2666? How would you interpret this cover in relation to the story? I'm interested in what you have to say...

>>10989716
>>10989170
I forgot to mention the art's from a Canadian like yourself (a guy called Zachari Logan).

>>10974446
>there moments to recite poetry and there are moments for boxing.

>>10990433
As as I am concerned this is the latter

>>10989716
Sorry, I went to sleep. Just woke up. This could be a bit of a ramble, and interpreting visual art isn't my strongest ability.

The first thing that strikes me is the choice of colours. I had seen this cover once before and it instantly turned me off. That white with magenta suggests a lighter read than the older cover, and it's curious why the bodies on the cover appear to be mostly male (my eyes could be deceiving me). Given the subject matter and the whole part about the unsolved murders of women in Santa Teresa (Ciudad Juárez) that everyone ends up talking about, it seems odd that such an event wouldn't factor more into the artistic decision, or that the artist wouldn't choose to create a more serious cover.

When I look at the cover I have - minus the award emblem they stuck on it - I'm awestruck. I'm not so well-versed in my Catholicism, but it looks like a faded, well-worn mural on a wall, the kind that maybe people would leave candles and flowers at, kneel and pray. It's darker, more suggestive of something evil. I can remember first seeing it and thinking 2666 was a serious novel before I ever laid a hand on it.

Now the falling - it looks like they're falling - bodies on the new cover, to be fair, look lifeless. It still doesn't quite capture the gravity of the novel's subject matter, though. It makes me think of that opening to Mad Men with the blackened animation of Don Draper falling out of the skyscraper. He wants a family, the American dream (maybe), but the temptations of alcohol and women send him tumbling, and we're not even sure who he is (his identity is a fiction). That's a quick reading based on memory. Okay, so we have these critics looking for an elusive German writer who cannot be found, a Chilean professor fearing his daughter will be lost to the violence of Santa Teresa, the inability to solve the murders, etc. People searching, afraid to lose something... there's lots of wandering, travel. Maybe the cover captures that a bit. Maybe. I still find it lacking.

But for transparency I've only read bits of 2666, but I've read the following in full:
>A Little Lumpen Novelita
>By Night in Chile
>Distant Star
>The Insufferable Gaucho
>Bolaño's interview from BOMB Magazine

I'm planning on working my way through The Return, The Savage Detectives, The Skating Rink, The Third Reich, and Woes of the True Policeman (which I had once purchased on clearance for $2 but donated to the library). 2666 is either next, or last, after I finish reading The Goldfinch by Donna Tartt.

>>10974446
His best stuff is mythical.

How would this rank among his other fiction? I might pick it up at the end of the month. It's supposed to be his first novel.

Also, I've yet to venture into his poetry. How does that fare?

Yes, this is also a bump.

>>10991978
Antwerp was his 8th novel. I think his first published novel in Spanish was"Advice from a Disciple of Morrison to a Joyce Fanatic" (1984), which hasn't been translated to English yet, the synopsis says it's a Bonnie & Clyde type story. I might translated into English as a pastime and post it on /lit/ someday. From his other books I've only read By Night in Chile and Distant Star, both are gems, and change the setting from Mexico (2666, Savage Detectives) to Chile. Both are worth a read.

>>10991978
I'm also yet to read it.

>>10991213
I think it was to make a contrast between naked men and the murdered women in the story, not exactly to represent smething from the book. In the original drawing the men are blue, but they change it to magenta for some reason. It's a weird cover, I wish I could get my hands on a Picador edition like yours but in Spanish.

>>10992045

I'd really like to read that. If you could add commentary, too, that'd be infinitely valuable. Maybe do installments or something.

I'm not fluent in Spanish, but I've read some bilingual poetry books. If anything, Spanish would be the language I'd learn, because my interest in literature is taking me in that direction.

>>10992078

Why naked men, though? It seems strange to me. I like the pic related cover, too, but it would be nice if there was a slipcase edition that split the novel into the separate five parts.

What's the deal with the sixth part I had read was found in his papers? I could be mistaken. There were apparently two novels found after his death, one was Woes of the True Policeman (maybe people mistook that for being the sixth part because of the similar characters?). 2666 is already mythologized as this work he was racing against death itself to finish, and I had heard he wanted it published in five separate parts to make more money for his family. But then I had heard that was another part, too.

His life is difficult to separate fact from fiction sometimes. That does pull me in. I like buying into a legend only to come closer to the truth and develop a different appreciation with time.

>>10992126
>I'd really like to read that. If you could add commentary, too, that'd be infinitely valuable. Maybe do installments or something.
Yeah, I like the installments idea, as well as adding footnotes when necessary. I'm in the middle of Lolita, after I finish it I will translate Advice ;)

Intelligent, nihilistic and with a wicked sense of humor

>>10992264
I'll have to stay on the lookout for that, anon. You're doing the Lord's work!

>>10991978
I have it but have not started it yet, although I've skimmed it. It seems like disconnected or slightly connected vignettes. I've read good reviews about it.

>>10991213
i'd say toss in last evenings on earth before/after the return, then savage detectives, then amulet, then 2666.

the shorty story collections give you pictures of the savage detectives which includes characters from amulet which alludes to 2666. all those together give you a pretty good impression of bolano the person as well.

>>10991978
do NOT start with antwerp. i believe it was one of the first novels he completed but could not get published until much later and with good reason. also it is not reflective at all of how most of his writing is. have you read the lime twig? it is kind of like that.

as for his poetry... i would not suggest it unless you have no bolano left to read

>>10992936
I'm actually the same person (both those posts are mine) so I wouldn't be starting with Antwerp, it would just be more of a curiosity.

Considering your reading order I'm going to throw Woes of the True Policeman after 2666, which just leaves The Skating Rink and The Third Reich to schedule. I might read those two next, and pick up Antwerp once I get paid. After that I'll follow your reading suggestion.

Ideally I'd have read Nazi Literatures in the Americas before Distant Star, but I fucked that up.

>http://quarterlyconversation.com/roberto-bolano-full-coverage

>https://bombmagazine.org/articles/roberto-bolaño/

>https://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/23/stray-questions-for-roberto-bolano/

bump

Ironic, shitpostic and memetic

>>10992045
Actually it was his first written, but 8th published, apparently.

Bumping before someone makes another Bolaño thread. One is enough.

>>10974645

Unironically this.

If you read his early poetry, you'd realize that some of his novels are basically an amalgam of his poems transcribed.
Same thing with his short stories.

>>10975833

>And what the fuck is "latin-american sounding" for god's sake? Are you surprised he sounds latin american considered that he writes in fucking spanish?

I've only read Amulet which I liked quite a bit.

I remember someone telling me the best progression of his works would be: Amulet, then By Night in Chile, then Savage Detectives, then 2666. 7

Would many here agree with that?

>>10999201
Poetic is too vague a critic, though, and like the tranny pointed out, Bolaño deploys different styles and voices in different novels that suit his characters, their level of intelligence, and so on. Can we be more specific with poetic? Poetry itself is not a monolith.

>>10999223
Someone worked out a bit of an order above:

>last evenings on earth before/after the return, then savage detectives, then amulet, then 2666.

Then go for Woes of the True Policeman.

If you're interested in Distant Star read Nazi Literature in the Americas first, because the former is a development of the latter.

Not sure where I'd put The Insufferable Gaucho or By Night in Chile (can be read alone, but Ibacache is slightly referenced in Distant Star).

I think The Skating Rink and The Third Reich are the novels set in Spain, so they'd be more removed from the world of the others. Same with A Little Lumpen Novelita (skippable). Antwerp is also a curiosity that's skippable.

A lot of fiction forms its own world, but generally the triumvirate is By Night in Chile, The Savage Detectives, and 2666.

>>10999228
"Poetic" as an adjective was developed in the early stages of poetry so it refers to the characteristics of that period of poetry (lyricism, metaphor, reasoned usage of language, etc)

>>10999246
And yet no one could explain what they meant, and simply saying "poetic" is inadequate when Bolaño deploys diverse styles.

>>10979247
>>10984500

>>10999246

autistic prose anon here. I want one of you guys to explain to me what are the feature of a sentence that makes it lyrical - as for the metaphorical, I'll leave it at that because it is obvious you can have poetry without using any metaphor and this is simply wrong.
I am starting to suspect that you guys are unable to even name what the elements of a sentence are and actually have no idea of how a sentence is build because in your retarded high schools they didn't teach you grammar.

As for "reasoned use of language", this is so broad and vague-sounding that I'll let it sink for a while. Think about it, anon. What use of written language is not reasoned? When does it happen that you do not think about the things you are about to write (with the exception of you using the expression "reasoned use of language" and the other guy who called Bolano's prose "latin american sounding")? If you write a novel, you'll have a reasoned use of language. But also if you write philosophy, I would say. Jesus, when you write an essay for middle school you having a reasoned of language. So, how would you say a "reasoned use of language" is a specific feature of poetry and not of almost any other existing genre?

>>10999985
o-oh, hey anon, it's me again. Might I take a stab at it? Go hard on me, because I do genuinely want to improve.

Elements of lyrical prose would involve things like vivid imagery, alliteration, and elements of a poetic meter. It's neither purple prose, nor terse prose, though terse prose is best used in conjunction with lyrical lines. Purple prose draws too much attention to itself by being excessive and overly ornate, which breaks the flow for the reader, and this can be jarring, because it formulates an unclear image in the reader's mind. Purple prose sentences can grow to the point of being difficult to understand, and it's pretentious to boot. See: writing with a thesaurus.

What I mean by terse would be sentences that are concise and tidy, more akin to a report, or a piece of news. Generally writers remove adverbs, and shorten phrases like "all of it" to "all" to rid themselves of superfluous words. Terse prose isn't necessarily the deficiency to the excesses of purple - which I've made it seem - since terse prose can be stilted and boring in the wrong hands, like the writer is scribbling a shopping list.

I'd suggest lyrical prose floats somewhere in between, like purple prose writers overshot their target, factoring in neither the weight of their arrow, nor the direction of the wind. Used in conjunction with more "lyrical" sentences, terse sentences contribute to the overall musical element of the piece; after all, staccato is also an element of musical articulation. What a writer ought to do, then, is mix simpler prose with more elaborate and evocative lines, in order not to overwhelm the reader and move the piece forward. Having an ear for rhythm and a knack for when to deploy certain sentences can also help the writer control the tempo, the flow of information. Hence, "poetic."

Readers sometimes need to read aloud to properly hear it.

I'm sick at the moment, and I haven't been sleeping well. Can you steep me some tea?

>>10976715
reddit memecrap

>>10999985
I'm >>10999246, I understand your autism and I'll try to explain myself.
>as for the metaphorical, I'll leave it at that because it is obvious you can have poetry without using any metaphor and this is simply wrong
Yes, but as I said the adjective came into being at a time where poetry was very similiar with itself and there's wasn't the preuccupation with avantgarde and experimentalism typical of the 20th century. Pindar, Homer, Sappho, Archilocos, the trobadours, Dante, Petrarch, Shakespeare, etc etc all use the metaphor in their poetry. So I think it's fair to say that "usage of the metaphor" is one of the possible (not required) characteristics of something "poetic".
>As for "reasoned use of language", this is so broad and vague-sounding that I'll let it sink for a while. Think about it, anon. What use of written language is not reasoned? When does it happen that you do not think about the things you are about to write
I'll try to explain myself. With "reasoned usage of language" I meant something that is very common in pretty much all poetry (and, in my opinion, is THE mark of poetry), that is the usage of the signifiers not as mere referrents to the signified but as producers of signification themselves.
Take this famous passage of Inferno
>Dinanzi a me non fur cose create,
>Se non eterne, ed io eterna duro
We can notice the usage of "duro" which does what I said above in two ways.
First, "duro" means both "I last" and "strong, resistant". Dante deliberately uses this ambivalence to convey how the gate to hell is eternally lasting and imponent.
Second, the word "duro" itself has a strong, harsh, impenetrable sound, which connects to what I said before about Dante trying to characterize the door as I've already explained.
You can find an analogy to this in Catullus carme Odi et Amo, where "excrucior" has a harsh sound (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpwH0i0l0po).). Another example would be Whitman's usage of the free verse to signify the vastness of his imagination.
So this is what I meant with "reasoned usage of language" (usage of THIS language, the italian language, the german language, the french language etc etc etc): this particular usage of the signifier which is characteristic of poetry. So this is another characteristic of something "poetic".
>But also if you write philosophy, I would say
clearly you've never read hegel
>I want one of you guys to explain to me what are the feature of a sentence that makes it lyrical
the focus on the "lyrical subject" (we call it "io lirico" here), the I, subjective personal experience expressed through the common means of poetry.
Now, for the insults part: suck my cock you fucking autistic pseud.
>>11000635
post boipucci

>>11000845
Someone steep me some goddamn tea first.

>>11000870
this the best thing I've got and I've been asking for boipucci on 4chan all day I can't even get score online why am I such a retard when it comes to anything sexual? made me laugh though, have a poem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be-JYAmHMGQ

>>11000881
I mean I would if I had lewds. My phone's camera broke, anon. I'd need someone to photograph me. Besides, I'm merely a translation of a woman, an interpretation encased in an androgynous facade. Are you sure that's something to beat yourself up over?

Regretfully I've never read much Hart Crane. I had been meaning to read either The Bridge or Voyages, but never made my way to it. Recorded poetry is comforting right now. If only.my head were clearer

>>11000635

I approve of your presence on this board and I would like you to continue posting lewds photos of cute librarians. I think anon below got a point on the relation between signifier and signified - since the structural elements of prose that could render it poetic are mostly a certain sense of rhythm and musicality, which can be achieved differently according to the language you are using.
I like how you are engaging with the technicalities of making a sentence terse and I agree that some of those devices can be used to make a sentence sound more or less musical or to give a certain rhythm to the text, given how accents work in the English language.

>>11000845

First of all my formal apologies for the insults: they are meant to scare off plebs and motivate other autistic anons. Then, se capisci Dante in Italiano probabilmente sei Italiano anche tu, e riconosco la tua competenza, considerato che a una qualsiasi scuola media italiana si imparano conoscenze di base che il resto del popolino di questa board di merda non imparerà neanche fra un milione di anni. Quindi un bel 10/10 sulla tua discussione e appoggio in gran parte la tua definizione di "poetico".


Please both of you keep posting in this board

>>10999985
>>11000635
>>11000845

What I have learned from this thread is that three very autistic anons are all it takes terrorize pseuds into oblivion and start discussing literature

>>11000975
>I mean I would if I had lewds. My phone's camera broke, anon.
Ah, such a shame.
>I'm merely a translation of a woman, an interpretation encased in an androgynous facade. Are you sure that's something to beat yourself up over?
I don't want to masturbate over it, I'm just endlessy fascinated by the the carnal sublime and the uncommon ways through which it manifests itself. I think traps are one of the greatest gifts of our times.
>>11001318
>First of all my formal apologies for the insults: they are meant to scare off plebs and motivate other autistic anons.
Apologies accepted, but you never offended me to begin with, I was being facetious
>Then, se capisci Dante in Italiano probabilmente sei Italiano anche tu, e riconosco la tua competenza, considerato che a una qualsiasi scuola media italiana si imparano conoscenze di base che il resto del popolino di questa board di merda non imparerà neanche fra un milione di anni. Quindi un bel 10/10 sulla tua discussione e appoggio in gran parte la tua definizione di "poetico".
Danke
>Please both of you keep posting in this board
In realtà me ne vorrei andare da qui e non tornare mai più. Provo un odio profondissimo verso la gente che posta qua col suo continuo lagnarsi del capitalismo, della civiltà occidentale, dei liberali, dei conservatori, di destra, sinistra, gli americani, gli ebrei, il cazzo, la figa, Giulio Evola, gente che pensa di essere sveglia perché si esprime in memi e tutta sta carrelata di stronzate che non dovrebbero stare in un luogo in cui (in teoria) si discute di letteratura ma che ci stanno comunque. Sono bloccato qui dalla mia scarsissima forza di volontà. Ho pure installato un coso che mi blocca 4chan e mi manda su una pagina a caso di wikipedia se provo a venire qui ma l'ho tolto dopo due ore.

>>11001459

Guarda quello che ho imparato dopo un po' di tempo qui è che se scremi da tutta la tossicità due o tre consigli buoni li puoi trovare - alla fine ho scoperto un sacco di letteratura interessante parlando con la gente qui. L'importante è non prendere niente sul serio mai e non rispondere alla maggior parte delle cazzate. Su sto thread sono scoppiato perché veramente la gente che risponde a monosillabi con "poetic" o cazzate così dopo tutte le palle che fanno parlando della megaprosa di Melville, Nabokov, Joyce - e poi non sanno dire un cazzo.

E sì sono tutti supponenti e si prendono a meme in faccia ma perché fare queste cose - lagnarsi dell'occidente, liberali, conservatori, destrasinistra, ebrei, Evola - è quello che fanno in nordamerica per il discorso politico oggi. Gli hanno installato un MMORPG in testa dove o si identificano con una bandiera qualsiasi o non sono nessuno, basta che passi 15 minuti su /pol/ per vedere che è tutto un gigantesco gioco di ruolo per poveracci senza identità. Però ti prego resisti, ogni tanto fa ridere beccare gente che se ne intende e trovare qualche opinione interessante.

>>11001502
>Guarda quello che ho imparato dopo un po' di tempo qui è che se scremi da tutta la tossicità due o tre consigli buoni li puoi trovare
È vero senz'altro ma dopo due anni che browso sta board penso di averne esaurito il potenziale. Ora mi sento come se navigassi a bocca aperta in un mare di merda.
>L'importante è non prendere niente sul serio mai e non rispondere alla maggior parte delle cazzate.
Anche qua hai ragione ma per qualche motivo a me tutta vedere tutta sta cretineria combinata al sarcasmo da so-tutto-io mi urta davvero un sacco, sarà che mi ricordano me quand'ero più giovane.
>Su sto thread sono scoppiato perché veramente la gente che risponde a monosillabi con "poetic" o cazzate così dopo tutte le palle che fanno parlando della megaprosa di Melville, Nabokov, Joyce - e poi non sanno dire un cazzo.
Nessuno qua legge. E se leggono sono dei dilettanti allo sbaraglio che non capiscono un cazzo. Ogni volta che leggo la parola "insight" mi partono due o tre capillari.
>è quello che fanno in nordamerica per il discorso politico oggi. Gli hanno installato un MMORPG in testa dove o si identificano con una bandiera qualsiasi o non sono nessuno, basta che passi 15 minuti su /pol/ per vedere che è tutto un gigantesco gioco di ruolo per poveracci senza identità.
Accuratissimo. È una sorta di tribalismo iperreale. Il bello è che essendo abituato a sentirle 'ste cose non mi sono neanche reso conto di quanto fosse ridicolo inizialmente. Poi mi sono fatto un girlo sul thread italiano di /int/ e vedere gente che diceva le stesse cose in italiano m'ha fatto capire quanto siano distaccati dalla realtà. È un virus silenzioso. Gli americani sono gente davvero strana.
>Però ti prego resisti, ogni tanto fa ridere beccare gente che se ne intende e trovare qualche opinione interessante.
Eh, non so se ne vale la pena.

>>11001598

Navigare a bocca aperta in un mare di merda è una buona metafora per la maggior parte di 4chan direi. Ed è anche vero che nella maggior parte dei casi non vale lo sforzo.
Non lo so. A me c'è qualcosa che piace del fatto di stare anonimi, ti dico la verità. L'internet social degli anni 2010 mi fa cagare, con tutta l'attenzione per i social, tutta gente che si mette in mostra, si prende sul serio e vuole che li prendi sul serio pure tu. Quando navigavo su internet alle superiori il massimo della personalità era avere gli avatar degli anime. A me di far vedere che sono io, qui, non me ne frega un cazzo. Su 4chan sia che dici una stronzata sia che dici una cosa intelligente alla fine non importa un cazzo a nessuno perché sei anonimo. Conta solo quello che hai detto li per lì, a nessuno importa niente di che persona sei. Non voglio idealizzare lit, perché tutto quello che dici sulla board è vero secondo me. L'unica cosa buona di questo posto secondo me è che è uno spazio di discussione anarchico. Vuol dire che può venir fuori qualsiasi fuori, gli imbecilli come la gente preparate, i libri di merda come i libri buoni. Fuori da quei tre/quattro amici a cui piace leggere nella vita reale questo è l'unico posto dove ogni tanto capita di incontrare qualcuno che ci capisce qualcosa