/lit/ - Literature

>>10946197
>There's no central text to Buddhism?
Pali Canon you retard.

>>10946197
Check the wiki

Start with Four Noble Truths and Eighfold Path.

And maybe the Five Hindrances and Five Precepts.

Everything else is auxiliary until you understand those core concepts and you'd be reading stuff merely for knowledge, which is not the entire point of Buddhism.

>>10946197
>dude stop desiring things lmao
literally all there is to it, don't waste your time

>>10946234
this, i hate buddhists

>>10946197
Read the Heart Sutra. Buddhist texts are better reading than most religious works you should be happy there's so much out there.

>>10946234
>dude stop desiring things lmao
A misconception.

A skilfull desire is the desire to end all desires.

Desire is part of the path until you're at a point where you let it go.

Desire is also a mistranslation. Craving is more appropriate.

>>10946234
>>10946239
Enjoy your avidya

>>10946249
Buddhism is anti-human, and I say this as someone who hates humanitarians.

>>10946234
>>10946239
>t. watched a couple Alan Watts lectures

>>10946256
I see a claim without any sort of evidence... you gotta give me something to work with, anon. This isn't Gaiaonline.

Tibetan book of living and dying

>>10946269
Stop craving evidence.

>>10946234
If you really want to reduce everything down into its simplest form you'd do better to look at dependent co-arising.
>And what is dependent co-arising?
>From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications.
>From fabrications as a requisite condition comes consciousness.
>From consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form.
>From name-&-form as a requisite condition come the six sense media.
>From the six sense media as a requisite condition comes contact.
>From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling.
>From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving.
>From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance.
>From clinging/sustenance as a requisite condition comes becoming.
>From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth.
>From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. >Such is the origination of this entire mass of stress & suffering.
But of course trying to make it simple isn't a great idea since Gautama Buddha tells you repeatedly what he's trying to say is subtle and you're very likely going to completely misunderstand him if you aren't careful. They didn't throw in that bit about Buddha needing to be persuaded to even try teaching anyone after nibbana just for fun, the whole point is he could tell very clearly how no matter what insane amount of diligence and sophistication he might direct towards the task of explaining himself it would almost invariably be wasted effort because the person he'd be explaining this to would be interpreting everything through his own deeply flawed perspective and would probably fuck up and say something something very similar to "Ha, I know exactly what Buddha meant! I just need to stop desiring things!"

>>10946280
*sigh*

bye

>dude I'm not Christian I hate all this God stuff it's for retards and I'm a genius so unique such a snowflake white people suck why can't they have vast intellects like mine and support socialism?
>oh wow atheism is actually really horrible why is society collapsing why isn't socialism working why are these faggots and trannies swarming all over me ahhhhh a Muslim just blew up beside me! no no I must ignore all that repress repress repress everything is fine it's the Christians who are wrong stupid fucking church people I bet they're poor too why can't they just embrace equality like me the bigoted peasants
>I want to be spiritual but not religious I hate myself and my own people with a passion I need a foreign religion to steal but I'll cut out all the parts I don't like like the gods or whatever and just say it's a "philosophy" or a "spiritual path" and that way I'll be able to stay on my pedestal and dress myself up as holy without actually having to change oh hey look it's Buddhism! isn't that what yellow people follow? so wise so foreign like that guy from the Karate Kid and no Jesus in sight! peeeeeeeerfect!

>>10946197
you're gay you faggot

I'm going to wash my teeth now and then meditate :^)

>>10946296
can you recommend any books/texts that explain these well - particular the dependent co-arising?

>>10946280
based

>>10946595
Mūlamadhyamakakārikā.

>>10946595
>>10946671
Also here's a link:
http://www.tsemrinpoche.com/download/Buddhism-Philosophy-and-Doctrine/en/Jay%20L.%20Garfield%20-%20The%20Fundamental%20Wisdom%20of%20the%20Middle%20Way%20-%20Nagarjuna%E2%80%99s%20Mulamadhyamakakarika.pdf

>>10946564
Cringe.

>>10946671
>>10946681
Thank you, Ive only got a rudimentary understanding of philosophy is this book good to go for a novice or are there some books I should read before?

>>10946691
You could try reading stuff like this first I guess:
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nagarjuna/
http://www.philosimply.com/philosopher/nagarjuna

>>10946256
agreed.

>>10946280
based

>>10946304
yellow fever anon btfo. buddhism is anti-human because desire is a natural impulse. it is part of existing in the animal kingdom. you humans just have a brain that is capable of questioning desire, it does not follow that denial or rejecting craving is necessarily correct.

managing desire? sure. that is a very good and Greek way of doing things. however, demanding complete abandonment of all desire because hermit man says that's the way to transcending? nah family, citation needed.

>>10946683
You people don't make me cringe. You make me weep.

https://youtu.be/35QAyctRU_E

Disgusting

>stop desiring
>stop striving
>stop thinking
>stop

if there is anything more anti-life i don't know what it is.

>>10946280
(You)

>>10946260
t. weaboo

>>10946737
Every (You) feeds my desire and saves me from buddhist soul-suicide.

>>10946721
So telling someone to quit abusing drugs is anti-human?

Addiction is driven by desire and to abandon a natural impulse such as desire is inhuman. You can also see a naturalistic fallacy here. What's natural does not mean it's correct.

>demanding complete abandonment of all desire

First of all, you use the word demand. No one is telling you to do anything. You are free to desire anything you wish. This is a path of renunciation and yes, the average human will not be able to reach Nirvana. It really is going against the grain of being human, but to say it's anti-human is quite an inaccurate hyperbole.

Also, it's faulty to go by what the text tell you. I can tell you many lines about the benefits of practice, but its futile to debate it, it's all about application. You can listen to it and test it out for yourself, and see if it works, but to merely read about it is nothing more than intellectualizing a teaching.

>>10946759
Most all of us can agree that some desires are bad, but most all of us can also agree that some desires are good.

>>10946733
>stop desiring
>stop striving
>Unrestrained desire leads not only to overconsumption, health and relationship difficulties, but many other issues that get revealed through meditation as well. That said, meditation doesn’t involve repressing worldly desires. It gives us direct, experiential Insight into the many ways that desire leads to pain and anxiety.

>stop thinking
>However, as intelligent beings, we no longer need to be driven by compulsive desire in order to take care of ourselves. We can act effectively from a foundation of reason and equanimity.

>>10946770
>a foundation of reason and equanimity
I am increasingly convinced that Buddhism is anti-human.

>>10946769
And would not Buddhists say so as well?

>>10946769
>but most all of us can also agree that some desires are good.

And I agree with that as well.

Desire is essential in the path. The Buddha started his journey because of his desire to see through the causes and cessation of suffering.

There are two types of desire, skilfull and unskilful.
The desire to seek liberation, live ethically, and eventually be free from the cyclical throes of suffering is skilful.

>>10946770
The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom, kiddo. The right answers do nothing if one isn't asking the right questions.

>>10946759
>>So telling someone to quit abusing drugs is anti-human?
>implying human animals do not have an instinct for self-preservation and encouraging that self-preservation in a rehab case is not firstly a function of the state against its property, the individual

>the average human will not be able to reach Nirvana.
why should someone want to reach Nirvana? (citation needed, btw)

>it's faulty to go by what the text tell you.
if everyone is supposed to be a mystic figuring it on their own, then why have a doctrine at all? and i'm not the one intellectualizing a teaching here buddy boy. it riles you to believe i perceive the web you weave. have a song anon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgHvIFxGT0c

>>10946777
checkin' those trips. again, it's a doctrine of control. control of whom? and for whom? the greater good, also known as the state? i think so.

>>10946794

>why should someone want to reach Nirvana?

Why would someone want to be at peace and free from the suffering of the world?


>then why have a doctrine at all?

Doctrine implies belief. No one is forcing you to believe anything, anon.

No one is even proselytizing you to become a Buddhist.

Think of the Buddha as a doctor. Your hurt, and he tells you why. He prescribes something. It's up to you to follow the instructions. If you do try it, you see if it works or not.

It really is a scientific approach to how to navigate the mind.

You have the doctor's guidelines. Try it or don't.

From Wikipedia's summary of the Kalama Sutta:

>The Kalama Sutta states (Pali expression in parentheses):[4]

>Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing (anussava),
>nor upon tradition (paramparā),
>nor upon rumor (itikirā),
>nor upon what is in a scripture (piṭaka-sampadāna)
>nor upon surmise (takka-hetu),
>nor upon an axiom (naya-hetu),
>nor upon specious reasoning (ākāra-parivitakka),
>nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over (diṭṭhi-nijjhān-akkh-antiyā),
>nor upon another's seeming ability (bhabba-rūpatāya),
>nor upon the consideration, The monk is our teacher (samaṇo no garū)
>Kalamas, when you yourselves know: "These things are good; these things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness," enter on and abide in them.'
>Thus, the Buddha named ten specific sources whose knowledge should not be immediately viewed as truthful without further investigation to avoid fallacies:

>Oral history
>Traditional
>News sources
>Scriptures or other official texts
>Suppositional reasoning
>Philosophical dogmatism
>Common sense
>One's own opinions
>Experts
>Authorities or one's own teacher

>Instead, the Buddha says, only when one personally knows that a certain teaching is skillful, blameless, praiseworthy, and conducive to happiness, and that it is praised by the wise, should one then accept it as true and practice it.

So a dogma it is not.

>it riles you to believe i perceive the web you weave

You're asking me to sell you buddhism. But i'm sorry I can only tell you what I know and know to have work for myself.

Here's Koan, relevant to your case:

>Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era, received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.

>Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor’s cup full, and then kept on pouring. The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. “It is overfull. No more will go in!”

>Like this cup, Nan-in said, you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?

>>10946721
>it does not follow that denial or rejecting craving is necessarily correct.

I really fucking hate this meme that Buddhism is about "ignoring desire."

That's not what it is at all. The Third Noble Truth is about ENDING desire (actually better called craving), not ignoring it.

Well, how do you "end desire", I hear you ask? Aren't we all just humans with impulses?

Yes, exactly, which is why to end it you need to dedicate your life to following the ethical and devotional precepts of Buddhism. You don't just go and sit in a hut, meditate for a few hours, and boom, you're good. You'll end up getting bored. You'll end up feeling horny. You'll end up regretting leaving your vidya games and pizza behind. Which is why I takes a fuckton of inner discipline and self-restraint to actually grasp what the Buddha was talking about.

Jesus Christ, you kids. You make it seem like 2500 years of profound psychological wisdom is just some NEETs LARPing as "enlightened beings."

>>10946847
>Why would someone want to be at peace and free from the suffering of the world?
Miseducation.

>>10946862

If you can't see the value of peace.. I don't know what else to say

>The idea of ataraxia is strongly associated with the Greek philosopher Pyrrho. Pyrrho was a companion of Alexander the Great, and joined Alexander in his conquests throughout Persia and India. While in India, Pyrrho encountered unfamiliar philosophies like Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism, and he noticed that they all shared some common elements, notably a desire for serenity and inner peace, and a belief that these goals could be achieved through intense self-discipline, meditation, and acceptance of one’s fate. Pyrrho brought these ideas back to Greece, where they spread like wildfire. Several important philosophical schools were influenced by these ideas, notably Skepticism, Cynicism, and Stoicism.

>>10946847
>no one is proselytizing you
>think of the Buddha as a doctor
what is a doctor but someone who knows better than you: on how to live, how to heal oneself, or the answers to existential questions

>You have the doctor's guidelines. Try it or don't.
shame and guilt are bad, anon. you should not generate these things in others. i recommend ten hail marys a couple our fathers and a glory be

>>10946876
Your peace is non-existence. You hate life.

>Well, how do you "end desire", I hear you ask? Aren't we all just humans with impulses?
>Yes, exactly, which is why to end it you need to dedicate your life to following the ethical and devotional precepts of Buddhism.
But no one is proselytizing me, right.

I'm very well aware of what Buddhism is about, I practiced it decades ago when I was younger. And I know it's not about "ignoring" desire but rather controlling it by stranglehold, by killing it (or ending it as you put it). This is self-annihilation. The only nirvana is death, or being alive surviving in a dead life.

>Jesus Christ, you kids. You make it seem like 2500 years of profound psychological wisdom is just some NEETs LARPing as "enlightened beings."
But that's what it is in this case.

>>10946877

The Doctor cures you ailments. He's not forcefeeding you pills.

>shame and guilt are bad, anon

Agreed. I mean there's probably some use in shame, like spiritual shame, when you've done something wrong and you regret it, and the same goes for guilt.

I merely said that to emphasize that you are free to do whatever you wish.

>>10946882
>>10946877
It's obvious neither of you understand Buddhism. Every one of your points is easily reduced by the scriptures themselves, stop embarrassing yourselves

>>10946882
>You hate life.
Implying.

I love life and all beings.

At the end of my meditation I always wish that all beings may be happy.

>Your peace is non-existence

I don't know anon. I've experienced some peaceful states while existing. YMMV

In other words, the only way to end suffering is to end desire, or more precisely selfish desire which leads to attachment. Very, very Girardian.

But you'll quickly realize this is a treadmill that leads to you dismantling your person and becoming a hermit monk, which is what I did, or quite literally killing yourself to be free from the world. It's as useful as Landian accelerationism.

>>10946893
You're obviously not >>10946847

>>10946890
>This is self-annihilation
You say that like it's a bad thing.

>>10946890
>equating nirvana with annihilation when both annihilationism and eternalism are explicitly rejected
>I'm very well aware what Buddhism is about :^)

There really should be a captcha for brainlets, fucking pathetic

>>10946906
Speaking as an official member of the animal kingdom, yes, death is bad.

>>10946877
There is no guilt in eastern religions. Guilt is a Christian thing.

As for shame, nobody is shaming you for having desire. This isn't Sunday school. He's simply stating a fact of psychology and the way to be free from suffering for all time. There is no moral judgment involved. It's only for people who can see the problem with desire and want to be free from suffering. For those who are not interested in this path, they don't need to feel guilty. It's just not suitable for them.

>>10946919
I was calling out his hypocrisy, dum dum.

>>10946915
It's not even death in that sense, which is part of life

>>10946927
>rejecting the world
>rejecting material things, including food and sex
>rejecting procreation
>destroying yourself and conforming to the community doctrine, but totally not out of guilt

>>10946900
You don't understand eastern religion. Killing your self would be based on negative emotional judgements, when liberation is total inner freedom in the sense that you can live under a tree in a forest or in a house in the city and not be effected by anything, completely non attached to anything. In that state there is no suffering, no reason to hide from the world, or seek out its comforts, everything is fine however it is because you are not effected by anything.

>>10946937
Dude just stop

>>10946942
ok i'll get on that nothing bothering me tip.

>>10946926
Care to extrapolate?

>>10946961
shh i'm meditating

>>10946942
>Killing your self would be based on negative emotional judgements
Is suicide TOO ACTIVE for buddhists?

>Dude Boodism is so gay man
>You mean to tell me some indian man without a shirt on is telling me NOT to eat my pizza?
>*vapes*

>>10946954
It's not possible for you at your current level of consciousness. That is why they meditate.

>>10946966
Why would you commit suicide?

>>10946989
Why not? Do you desire to live?

>>10946982
shh i'm meditating

tryna my destroy my addiction to (You)s, and my attachments to 4chan, to this thread, and dumb hippies who feed their ego by portraying themselves as masters of the mystic arts.

>>10946882
What do you consider existing Anon?

>>10946915
Ok, but death is unavoidable. Is the purpose of life just to avoid death until you can't any longer?

>>10946994
Suicide is an expression of an extreme attachment to life

>>10946996
Don't be vexxed that you didn't get away with being an uninformed shitposter.

Christians would have you hung upside down by your balls by now.

>>10947007
No that isn't the purpose.

>>10946721
>it does not follow
how does it feel to know that nobody cares about your imagination?

>>10947009
Not necessarily. If you weren't attached to life, you would be indifferent to it.

>>10947007
shh i'm meditating

>Ok, but death is unavoidable. Is the purpose of life just to avoid death until you can't any longer?
that's a nice strawman you've got there. death is unavoidable, yes, and in my personal opinion speaking only for myself the meaning of life is to engage with it honestly and if you are capable doing something grand with the time you have. and THEN die. philosophy is preparation for death, some nerd said. he was right. for buddhists, however, philosophy is literally a denial of essential experience. it's a stunted life, meant for those who wish to reincarnate as something better. knock yourself out if you like, but don't sell it to poor ignorant anons as something it isn't.

>>10946994
Few things, killing oneself is a violation of one the 5 precepts AND a profound rejection of the current moment.

Depending on the sect of Buddhism you follow there are many reasons to live, the Boddhisattva vow to help all beings reach liberation for instance.

Buddhism is about exploration. Buddha said don’t take anything I say for gospel, verify it for yourself.

>>10946982
>>10946942
>>10947023
>>10947013
butthurt buddhist forum brigade come to disturb my calm.

>>10946280

>>10947029
>what is death meditation

>>10947040
Butthurt Chrisffag trying to argue away his stunted existence and pray for salvation from an external source.

>>10947038
>the Boddhisattva vow to help all beings reach liberation for instance
Sounds like an attachment to me. Best to get rid of it.

>>10947049
>what is a chakra really

>>10947057


>I'm going to help others be happy
>Oh wait thats a desire, better not do it!

This is how dumb you sound. Holy shit, I'm out of here. You need to do some research. Shitposting and being ignorant is robbing you from honest inquiry (from any subject).

>>10947057
Very poor understanding of desire and attachment. Buddhism doesn’t make you a statue. You’re engaging in some pretty childish antics because I don’t think you can accept you have a choice in all your reactions. So you’re gonna try and poke holes in these ideas so you can still be a bitter faggot

>>10947070
What a maroon

>>10947077
>>10947078
>suicide is bad because it indicates an attachment to life
>but attachment to life isn't a bad thing ...

>>10947078
>protecting these ideas so you can still be a bitter faggot

>>10947087
I wasn’t him, the attachment to life thing is silly. It’s rejecting the what is.

>>10947092
Defarte said ‘I slurp cocks therefore I am!’

so this is the power of Eastern Religion

wow

>>10947109
Shut up you little chubby queer, talk to me when you’ve become a stream-enterer.

Does the fact that Dali lamas can reincarnate not create problems with Nirvana?

How do Buddhists view religions like Christianity?

If you hesitate to step on a bug, you have an attachment to life. If you go around helping others, you have an attachment to them. What am I not understanding here? Are only some attachments bad? So what's special about it?

>>10946197
>be china
>become Buddhist
>few centuries later become shithole of soulless materialism

>be boomer hippie
>become buddhist
>few decades later become aging and soulless materialist

hmmmmmmmmm.........

>>10947115
I'm an arahant, and so your petty jibes do not disturb my calm. Take my wisdom, or do not. I have only to will myself to evaporate into a higher metaphysical plane. I remain here as a mortal bodhisattva only to teach you, for your sake, and totally not because my ego needs your attention.

>>10947123
>all desires are intrinsically bad meme

you learn to differentiate between desires that keep you in lower patterns of behavior vs. wholesome/skillful states.

>>10947123
You’re a fucking retard who heard one thing and has ‘attached’ onto that (incorrect) idea and are gleefully applying it to every situation that you can find a logical inconsistency.

Much like how you gleefully apply your hole and mouth to the cocks of every man you find.

>>10947123
The attachment is not in the action but in your mind. You can act while not being attached.

>>10946197
Alright, anons.Here's something I saw posted on here before. Tell me your opinion on it cuz it freaks me out

>>10947137 >>10947146
A pyschopath can kill dozens of people while remaining completely detached, in total peace.

>>10947159
What about it freaks you out?

>>10947162
Killing is against the precepts

>>10947029
No, a life bonded in karmic thinking is a denial of essential experience. Everything you do - every thought, every action, every success, every failure - is limited by your conditioning and not at all reality as it truly is. And you might be okay with this if you're a healthy, successful person in a stable social situation - but on the off chance you aren't (i.e. 99% of humanity), these bondages are only going to keep you grasping for something else and in a state of mild angst and confusion.

Besides, you're making it seem like you either become a Buddha or you don't even bother. That's not how it works. Buddhism is very compatible with the lay life and literally everyone could benefit from Buddhist practices if the motivation to pursue them is there.

Buddhism is not life-denying, it's not a set of antinatalist dogmas, it's not about sitting in a cave pretending to be a sage. It's literally just about shedding mental defilements and engaging more fully with experience. This can and does involve giving up things that are no longer serving you, but it's far from the only part.

>>10947197
Why? Aren't the precepts there for achieving peace?

>>10947087
If you kill yourself, you'll just be reborn, and this time you'll have the negative karma accrued from the suffering your suicide caused others.

Make no mistake, in order to be fully enlightened, you need to face the terrifying inability to escape this reality. Enlightenment ain't for the weak of heart, bub.

>>10947122
In Mahayana Buddhism, which the Dalai Lama comes from, there's the concept of a Bodhisattva or being who is enlightened but delays their entry into Nirvana for the sake of helping all sentient beings. The Dalai Lama is considered to be a Bodhisattva and hence can choose to be reborn at will.

>>10947224
In some cases it might plausibly be beneficial. A life wouldn't be neutral by default, if you're a human then you eat things, take up space, leave waste, tread on grass, block sunlight, etc. Where does the good karma come from?

>>10947224
>If you kill yourself, you'll just be reborn, and this time you'll have the negative karma accrued
citation needed. on what observed phenomena do you base this conviction.

>>10947134
I guarantee you Thailand, Nepal, Bhutan, Sri Lanka, Tibet, etc. are manifolds more time spiritual societies than any post-Christian western country.

>>10947246
Dude, existence told me so

>>10947249
other anon said china.
>implying china has not become a westernized capitalist country
and boomer hippies get into eastern mysticism because that's what impressed girls in the 60s. completely degenerate, reactionary response and rejection of their own native western faith.

>>10947213
Yes. Being a serial killer is not being a peace. Even if a serial killer "appears" detached and calm, odds are they have had deeply fucked up experiences leading to them being insane murderers. Also, if rebirth is true, then you'll have to suffer the consequences of your murders in the next life.

>>10947246
Not him but reincarnation where you retain your memory implies you have some attainments in the path

Its something you wouldnt worry anout because the only actionable sphere of control you have is in this life, where you are able to influence your future.

I personally do not believe in reincarnation simply because i have jot verified for myself. I would go by faith if i did, but i canny verify or wholeheartedly accept it.

Not him btw

>>10947189
Man, what DOESN'T freak you out about it?

>>10947238
>A life wouldn't be neutral by default, if you're a human then you eat things, take up space, leave waste, tread on grass, block sunlight, etc.
Right, but if you kill yourself, you won't be ending life, you'll just be creating the conditions for a new life somewhere else. And I suppose you could say that well maybe if I kill myself I'll go to someplace better suited to practicing the dharma, but suicide would almost guarantee you won't go to some place like that.

>>10947254
Why should someone follow a faith just because they're born with it? Wouldn't a conviction that a faith is true be more important?

>>10947286
>Why should someone follow a faith just because they're born with it?
It's their inheritance.
>Wouldn't a conviction that a faith is true be more important?
They tend to inherit that too.

>>10947162
No he can't.

>>10947286
nice strawman. i never suggested they should adopt their native faith. they probably didn't even understand it to begin with, which is why they abandoned it in favor of something with more flavor and cachet. i only question hippies and other westerners glomming on to the mysteries of the exotic east because of surface appearances rather than real understanding. same as most church-goers in the west, really.

>>10947159
>>10947277
This is a rather poor piece of advice DESU. The problem with advice like this is that it lays way too much on the reader at once, which can make it seem intimidating and put them off actually taking practical, small steps to begin their journey.

I've followed the Buddhist path more or less for five years now. I still drink. I still masturbate. Now, I've always stopped or reduced a lot of bad habits, and my conception of what I want for myself has changed since I started, but I'm far from being a monk or anything like that. And I will admit, at first I was put off, because I thought "oh shit, I'm going to have to give up everything TODAY if I want to take this seriously." But of course, that's not how it goes. You're not going to give up hedonistic pleasures overnight just because you now meditate and no longer eat meat. But you will begin to feel less compelled to do these, overtime.

>>10947289
>They tend to inherit that too.
What if they loose that conviction later on?

>>10946197
>wanting to, as a westerner, be a buddhist
is there anything more pretentious, more attention-seeking?

>>10947466
Do you think on asian forums they have this meme in reverse?

>>10946197
the Nikayas and Mahaparinirvana Sutras you dumb fucking GUAILO GAIJIN NIGGER

>>10946876
>I literally can't even right now

>>10946280
based

>>10947134
on the contrary:
>be Europe
>become christian
>few centuries later become pinnicle of humanity

>be boomer hippie
>new age theology lmao
>make an entire fucking nation implode

really makes you think

>Christianity
>Shallow on the surface, deep as fuck when you dive into it

>Buddhism
>Deep on the surface, shallow as fuck when you dive into it.

Which would win?

>>10946859
>You make it seem like 2500 years of profound psychological wisdom is just some NEETs LARPing as "enlightened beings."

>>10946564
kek this amount of projection

>>10946899
>I love life and all beings. At the end of my meditation I always wish that all beings may be happy.

No two sentences could possibly make you sound more like a self-righteous prick than these.

>>10946942
> Killing your self would be based on negative emotional judgements
you say that but what if i kill myself so that my body can feed nature?
BOOM, moral good.

>>10946722
>skip to random section
>first thing i hear:
>"so you said you're jewish?" - some negro
>"*laughing* yes!" - buddhist prick

>>10946722
>you've had sex with men?
>*nods*
hly fucking shit every fucking second makes it worse :^O

>>10946197
everyone's minds have become enamored with thinking to such an extent that it has become imposible for nearly anyone to "shut up" inside their skulls. The chatter is ceaseless. Furthermore, the words spoken inside the mind influence your perception of reality in an immediate and physical way. If the subvocalising mind could be silenced, a new order of intelligence would seep into your experience that is less your own personal consciousness and more of a universal consciousness, which can provide a deep sense of security, understanding, bliss, what have you, what people want.

>>10947077
>I'm going to help others be happy
>Oh wait thats a desire, better not do it!
yes? :)

>>10946733
They don’t teach stop thinking that’s Yoga Samadhi, its not the Jhanas from the Theravada school or Kensho from Zen. And the Yogis teach two different kinds of meditation, more but two basic groups of practices, most meditation schools teach two types which have expansive and contracting mechanics. the rest is just being attached to forms and sensations, having no self respect basically

>>10946733
They don’t teach stop thinking that’s Yoga Samadhi, its not the Jhanas from the Theravada school or Kensho from Zen. And the Yogis teach two different kinds of meditation, more but two basic groups of practices, most meditation schools teach two types which have expansive and contracting mechanics. the rest is just being attached to forms and sensations, having no ontological intuition basically. there is no self, anatta is scientifically proven, and the physics nerds are already falling away from the idea of an absolute objective reality. The Buddhist psychology, their ancient cog psyche, their metaphysics and ethics are more evolved than Hedonistic Humanist Materialism or Christian Spiritualist Idealism.

>>10947159
My Buddhist friends, is it wrong to be averse to the palpable undercurrents of bitterness and resentment in this text? It's not the content, though obviously it has a "shocking" element in its deviation from contemporary norms and common sense - that doesn't bother me, and even interests me. It's the style. It seems like seed sown on bad ground.

>>10947637
you had me going until you turned metaphysics into a competition between Chad Orientals vs Virgin Westerners

>>10946733
oh yeah this modern-masturbation-cancer filled saturation is the cheerios!!!!! WHOOOH!

>>10947688
>modern-masturbation-cancer filled saturation
bruh are you describing your life or mine? because i'm quite happy with my life and how i spend my free time.

>>10947688
>he wrote on 4chan

>>10946197
What? Each strain literally has clearly-defined central texts and practices. For the whole of Buddhism, it would be the parts of the Pali canon that directly concern the Buddha's teachings. All of Buddhism has these basic teachings at the base.

>>10946197
It's about obliberating your soul/essence to escape the Demiurge/YHWE/Loki
They are truly faggots because they don't fight the jews and avoid the path of ascension in favor of truly killing themself, not sure why anyone thinks it's a good idea

>>10946204
that's literally a library of the said 1000s of texts

>>10946234
>Dude, worship me

literally all there is to it, don't waste your time

>>10946256
Abrahamism is anti-human and I say this as someone who hates nobody

>>10946296
This just seems like the despair code.

Why do misinformed white boys believe they have everything about alternate philosophies figured out because they read a couple of articles about it on Wikipedia?

Buddhism is NOT "ignore desire", "kill yourself", "go live as a robotic NEET", and so on. If any of you neanderthals bothered to actually studied it properly you'd see the Buddha never said anything remotely like that.

>>10946564
(you)X2

>>10947800
wrong, sweetie

>>10946769
>but most all of us can also agree that some desires are good.
No. All of us can agree except insane retards. Buddhism says nothing about desires being truly good or bad. Asceticism is simply conducive to enlightenment, enlightenment basically being seeing the world as it really is. Without metal clutter, bias, projection, or anything except the peaceful rawness. Asceticism isn't viable or agreeable for most people, however restraint and practice is surely beneficial for most. Even just meditating for a few minutes a day is highly beneficial for all. You don't need to aim to be 'enlightened' or even agree with such an idea. Although there is plenty scripture, ultimately it is all supplementary and your personal practice and path is the only relevant thing. Of course, you'll likely get no where and be discouraged without at least grasping and contemplating the basics. Buddhism is simply about attaining peace in the mind, the Buddha didn't speak of things like metaphysical truths because he considered them irrelevant or perhaps even counter to attaining that peace. No knowledge will fundamentally change the way your mind is structured and functions, as the study and practice of Buddhism does (mainly meditation) in most cases you will take it in stride and desire further knowledge. Forever unsatiated. That doesn't mean you can't pursue such things, just that they aren't conducive to enlightenment, to peace in the mind. There is nothing wrong with not being a monk and spending 18hrs/day meditating, most can't and will not do it, that doesn't mean Buddhism doesn't have a lot to offer even in passing. The Buddha in particular emphasises an almost egoistic approach, taking what you agree with and what benefits you, never being dogmatic. Using it all as a ladder or boat. Even the name 'Buddhism' is rather meaningless and perhaps in conflict with the Buddha's thinking. You don't need to apply it to yourself. It discerningly recognises the subjective nature of the mind and an individual as a whole (not the same cloth, different in history/culture/language/mentality/etc).

>>10947800
>misinformed white boys
why you gotta make it about race, zhang? you are discrediting your own argument (when you finally make one, i mean).

>>10946197
In a nutshell:
1) Life is suffering
2) In order to get rid of suffering you need to overcome an illusion of having a personal ego
3)You may practice some sort of meditation as one of the means to reach this state which one may call enlightenment

>>10946722
I can post poor representatives of ideologies as well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdtRpA8xQk0

>>10946877
this grill reminds me of data

>>10946777
at least it never puts a vast majority of humanity in a place of eternal torture. Now THAT is anti-human. Buddhism puts mortal suffering at the focal point of its spiritual considerations.

>>10947637
>The Buddhist psychology, their ancient cog psyche, their metaphysics and ethics are more evolved than Hedonistic Humanist Materialism or Christian Spiritualist Idealism
Most I can believe, but how is their metaphysics and ethics more evolved than Christian? I never quite managed to grasp the higher spiritual goal of Buddhist path on the level more comprehensible than "dude stop being lol"

Or, more precisely, the question is. What does remain when you strip the human being of all desires, aversions and so on? Why would, say, love remain (apparently it should remain). What makes love different from any other desire (or craving) in Buddhism, metaphysically speaking?

>>10946751

>>10946877
>shame and guilt are bad

Not in Christian theology

>>10947817
buddhism larpers ITT remind me of data

>>10946900
You can't escape personal being through suicide baka.

>>10947832
exactly. like i said, useless.

>>10947806
I am a white boy you nut. And let's not pretend most of the people posting in this thread aren't middle class white American males.

>>10947839
>he still didn't bring any kind of coherent criticism of anyone itt
go to BED, tyler

>>10947162
No, he literally can't

>>10947847
Bring some coherent criticism first, maybe then I'll actually give you food for thought.

>>10947852
read the thread, lazybones

>>10947466
I agree. Its why I became a Neoplatonist :^)

>>10947853
I have. The overarching criticism in this thread are just "it denies life" (whatever that means), it's "about killing yourself," it "ignores human emotion", and so on, which, again, are all total misunderstandings of Buddhism that can very quickly be dispelled if the people posting these criticism were actually interested in learning more.

>>10947859
that's your wind up

now give us the haymaker

>>10947595
Where is this depth in Christianity? You better be Orthodox at least, saying things like that.

>>10947861
Buddhism is about engaging totally with the present moment. "Abandoning the ego" doesn't mean you become some lifeless zombie, instead it means the mental conditioning that keeps you from experiencing moment-to-moment reality are let go of.

Buddhism is how you let go of this mental conditioning. Some of that can involve giving up material possessions, or social status, and so on, but those aren't the goal in themselves. If you note, the Buddha himself was an extremely influential person.

Furthermore, Buddhism is unlike Christianity, Islam, etc. in that it's not a "set of beliefs." You don't "believe" in dukkha, you don't "believe" in the jhanas, the same way you believe in heaven or you believe in the Bible. All the doctrines are simply tools to help the practitioner experience these phenomenological truths themself, and which are then abandoned once they've reached the goal of liberation.

>>10947879
'don't believe in anything bro'
-Satan 500 BC

>>10946981
I laughed, good post anon.

>>10947883
What are you talking about man? Satan didn't exist until God made the world in 0 AD

to be fair I'd say stoicism is similar to buddhism in some ways. they both require the individual take command of himself and deny what would often be a first impulse, emotional reaction. but stoicism is strictly about managing your self to live a more prosperous, happy, and useful life.

buddhism, however, is some kind of roleplaying game where you earn merit points to go to the next level and when you reach the level cap you win the game and stop playing. bunch of unnecessary, philosophically unsound assumptions about how souls interact with the world and what they do after death. hogwash.

>>10947887
>and when you reach the level cap you win the game and stop playing

According to Buddhism there was never not a time when you weren't enlightened. The goal is not to "level up" to enlightenment like an RPG but "return" to your primordial state. All of us stuck here in samsara are like the daydreams of a state of existence which is always and totally free.

>>10947879
I must be pretty based because I learned to strip that conditioning and control my emotions (or at least moderate them in a healthy manner) as a child.

Do you believe in a subtle body?

>>10947892
shit man don't say stuff like that i feel like i'm being summoned away, about to evaporate from this universe

>>10947894
Perhaps, depending on what you mean by it.

sophistry and illusion

>>10946197
It's good as an antropotechnics but it isn't philosophy

>>10946234

>>10946239
Eh I don't think it's necessary to end desire/suffering since that's impossible in Buddhism. The most important part is about putting it into context, developing discipline and awareness about its pervasiveness, and realizing how it basically informs so much of consciousness. It seeks to liberate the individual through comprehension of a deeper, more fundamental sense of awareness.

>>10946269
>>evidence
>It's just as if a man were wounded with an arrow thickly smeared with poison. His friends & companions, kinsmen & relatives would provide him with a surgeon, and the man would say, 'I won't have this arrow removed until I know whether the man who wounded me was a noble warrior, a priest, a merchant, or a worker.' He would say, 'I won't have this arrow removed until I know the given name & clan name of the man who wounded me... until I know whether he was tall, medium, or short... until I know whether he was dark, ruddy-brown, or golden-colored... until I know his home village, town, or city... until I know whether the bow with which I was wounded was a long bow or a crossbow... until I know whether the bowstring with which I was wounded was fiber, bamboo threads, sinew, hemp, or bark... until I know whether the shaft with which I was wounded was wild or cultivated... until I know whether the feathers of the shaft with which I was wounded were those of a vulture, a stork, a hawk, a peacock, or another bird... until I know whether the shaft with which I was wounded was bound with the sinew of an ox, a water buffalo, a langur, or a monkey.' He would say, 'I won't have this arrow removed until I know whether the shaft with which I was wounded was that of a common arrow, a curved arrow, a barbed, a calf-toothed, or an oleander arrow.' The man would die and those things would still remain unknown to him.

>>10947805
This.

Everything in this is true

>be Buddhist
>die
>move through the intermediary states
>enter the void
>prepare yourself to reincarnate in a form according to the karma you've accrued through your life
>you're standing in front of an old guy with a book
>Hi welcome to Heaven I'm Peter let's see here Buddhist huh lol you'll be surprised to learn that you only had one shot at life and that was it and you messed up royally should've had faith in Jesus Christ buddy see ya on Judgement Day
>two demons appear and drag you to the Lake of Fire

>>10948274

How populated is the lake of fire?

The average temperature must be lower as more souls are bathing in it, like a big mystical jacuzzi.

All the souls that died in BC must be in hell. Even those who live AD and didnt wholeheartedly believe must be in hell.

Also, doesnt eternal pain and torture fade away in face of the eternal? Like im pretty surr after a thousnd years, i would be desensitized. And whats hurting when theres no body to be hurt?

These questions are intangible based on an unverifiable claim that hell exists. Like in Buddha’s reincarnation, im very wary of believing anything that may shape how i see death until I experience it first hand.

>>10946595
evola's doctrine of awakening

>>10946564
it's not my fault that christianity has no initiatic path for non-monks

>>10947584
>le 50s were not degenerate man

>>10948274
>be God
>all-power, all-knowing lord of the universe
>decide to create mortal species for some reason
>decide to also give these mortals a single way to eternal life because why not
>however this path to immortality is rather abstract, requires belief in a certain set of random axioms that most people's psychology (that you designed) will reject, and will only be proclaimed in one part of the world for one epoch of history, ignoring literally every other mortal being that you've created elsewhere
>one day, a buddhist monk that you created who has dedicated his life to meditation and compassion dies and is brought up to your heavenly abode
>turns out he wasn't exposed to the arbitrary axioms you made compulsory for immortal life
>send him to hell because why the fuck not

And Christians call their god "benevolent"

>>10947892
isn't Samsara prior to Nibbana or if it's not, what did go wrong with Nibbana that Samsara arised?

>>10948289
My post was written mostly in jest, but I'll try to answer your questions. Many Buddhists have died in a state of invincible ignorance. God might very well extend some special mercy to them, but we cannot know.

>How populated is the lake of fire?
There are billions of human souls and probably many times that of demons currently in there, although some demons are free to wander. Most humans go to Hell. The physical dimensions of Hell were laid out in one of the books of the Old Testament but I forget.

>The average temperature must be lower as more souls are bathing in it, like a big mystical jacuzzi.
Hellfire isn't bound by the laws of physics as we understand them. The number of souls probably has no effect whatsoever on the temperature.

>All the souls that died in BC must be in hell. Even those who live AD and didnt wholeheartedly believe must be in hell.
No, before the Advent, the relatively righteous dead went to the Bosom of Abraham, which was seperated from Gehenna by a gulf. Dueling the three days He was dead, Christ harrowed Hell and saved all those who would accept Him.

>Also, doesnt eternal pain and torture fade away in face of the eternal? Like im pretty surr after a thousnd years, i would be desensitized. And whats hurting when theres no body to be hurt?
The souls in Hell right now don't have physical bodies, but have spiritual bodies. The hellfire burns, but does not consume. The worms eat but do not consume. The Demons torture, mutilate, and dismember, but the body is never destroyed. This has been described as burning the body down to the bones, and then the bones and flesh growing back to be consumed again. The souls don't have bodies now, but will be reunited with their bodies during the general resurrection of the dead on Judgement Day. No, you never get used to the pain. I've read that the suffering only gets worse over time, and will be much worse once the damned get their bodies back.

>These questions are intangible based on an unverifiable claim that hell exists. Like in Buddha’s reincarnation, im very wary of believing anything that may shape how i see death until I experience it first hand.
Hell is verifiable. You just have to die and go there lol. Anyway, for you to believe in Hell you'd have to faith in the revelations of it by the Prophets, Christ, the Church Fathers, and the Saints. Rejecting faith in Christ is what lands you in Hell.

>>10948329
>decide to create mortal species
Stopped reading right there. God didn't create humanity as mortal. At least try to grasp the basics first.

>>10947795
That's odd. Jews are not of Abraham.

>>10948329
Should Shakespeare's characters hate him?

>>10948333
I've heard Buddhist masters say that Samsara and Nibbana are synonymous, and that it's only our limited conception that makes us believe otherwise.

>what did go wrong with Nibbana that Samsara arised?
I think that's a question that can only be answered once one has reached liberation. The Gnostics would tell you that Samsara is the creation of a flawed Demiurge, but that seems like a somewhat limited idea of Samsara to be honest. The Buddha said not to worry about such matters; instead just focus on achieving the goal.

>>10948343
Fine, literally all you have to change is

>decide to create mortal species
to
>decide to create innocent, immortal species and then tempt them to eat the fruit that will cause guilt despite being the benevolent, all-knowing lord of the universe

and my point would remain the same

>>10948329
>>one day, a buddhist monk that you created who has dedicated his life to meditation and compassion dies and is brought up to your heavenly abode
>>turns out he wasn't exposed to the arbitrary axioms you made compulsory for immortal life
Maybe meditation and compassion are arbitrary? Or perhaps you are not the arbiter of values you think you are. We do not know if Siddhartha ended up in hell, and even if he did, Christ descended into hell, and presumably preached there for "three days".

>>10948349
I mean, if your argument is that we're all just characters of God's play and have the same ontological reality as them, that would be a fair point, but that's not really what Christianity preaches.

>>10948336
I never actually stopped believing in Jesus because in scared pf going to hell.

But i find the Buddhist way of life to be mlre practical and less mystical, funnily enough.

> hell Is verifiable

I wish, my man. Any sort of knwoledge beyond life would be extremely valuable. But all we have are people dreaming and claiming to have seen this or that.

It would be interesting to hear what people think of the afterlife before they learn about religion...

>>10948359
God didn't tempt them. Satan did. Still not much better.

>>10948364
Christianity is about the realization of those characters into real beings, children of God.

Besides, our ontological nature would be relative to God's infinity.

>>10948369
So a soul isn't "real" until it develops faith in God?

>>10948366
Right, and God made Lucifer, who then rebelled and became Satan, who God, the all-powerful Lord of the Universe, saw fit to allow into the Garden of Eden.

>>10948336
Also, I love the Christian mythology more than anything.

That part where Jesus went to hell sounds cool. I imagine most of the damned must have taken his offer. Even just out of curiosity.

Also the story where Lucifer took 1/4 of the angels to rebel against god.

>>10948365
You can take what's useful from Buddhism and be a Christian. I live in a Buddhist country and I've learned to be much calmer from them because of the focus they place on serenity and harmony. Their metaphysics are mostly incorrect but their ethics are mostly correct. You can't reinvent the wheel, after all. Buddhism isn't 100% wrong about everything. The two religions have a lot in common, and are compatible to a certain degree. Christianity has assimilated a lot of wisdom from various cultures over the years. Eastern culture shouldn't be any different. We're here to baptize the nations not to burn them.

>>10948383
>So a soul isn't "real" until it develops faith in God?
Not in the sense God wants it to be. What I would want it to be would be something akin to goyim / real people, but God sees it differently.

The realization of the new life, new birth, is only somewhat realized on this earthly world. It does show, but it is merely distant echoes of the promise.

However, this approach of yours does have some merit, namely that faith is a gift from God. You can reject it.

>>10948383
>blaming God for the sins of another moral agent

God isn't obligated to intervene in His creation. You can't blame God for you not having a girlfriend. That's your own fault.

>>10948389
It ain't mythology if it really happened.

I don't think most of the damned accepted salvation. People generally go to Hell because they hate God.

Also it's 1/3rd of the angels. The Bible hints that 2/3rds of humans are children of the devil, but this number isn't certain.

>>10948408
Why not? Why did he create a universe in which suffering is possible if he's supposedly so benevolent? And I know you can say "so that we can truly come to understand love", but the problem is most people don't get that chance, since we're committed to suffering for eternity.

>>10948408
>It ain't mythology if it really happened.
I disagree.

>>10948413
>boohoo suffering is bad
You're not meant to like suffering. You're meant to move away from it, or withstand it to showcase your good qualities, like loyalty, mercy, justice. They are in a very difficult test.

Your life is akin to playing games on easy mode, and whining about the existence of a hard mode.

>>10948424
>You're not meant to like suffering. You're meant to move away from it

Right, and this is the central concept behind Buddhism.

>Your life is akin to playing games on easy mode, and whining about the existence of a hard mode.
This doesn't answer the question of why a benevolent deity would create a universe full of of turmoil and suffering out of love, especially when it deny so many of its children the chance to redeem themselves by sending them to an eternal punishment.

>>10948431
>Right, and this is the central concept behind Buddhism.
It's the central concept behind all life. Don't stay in the fire, or you die.

>>10948431
Stopping arguing with Demiurge worshippers anon.

>>10948439
Demiurge is called will to power. It's always preventing good things from lasting.

>>10948431
>suffering and turmoil
The crucible purifies.

>deny the chance to redeem themselves
lol you can't redeem yourself in earth or in heaven or in hell. That isn't how it works. Christ redeems us. If you reject Christ's redemption your entire life you're not going to suddenly accept it in eternity. You've already rejected it.

>>10948437
Well, where Buddhism goes beyond that is that it outlines the true causes of suffering, which it identifies as craving, aversion and ignorance.

>>10948454
>If you reject Christ's redemption your entire life you're not going to suddenly accept it in eternity
Right, but then why would a loving god create beings who even have the *capacity* to reject him? Every time God creates a new baby, he is willingly creating a new soul which could very well end up in eternal damnation. Why should that be considered benevolent?

>>10948460
I would say Christianity goes even beyond those, as it explains them as symptoms of the rejection of God in the fall; the egalitarian will to power.
>Would you not like to be as God?

>>10948470
>Right, but then why would a loving god create beings who even have the *capacity* to reject him?
You need children in your life.

>>10948475
Are you actually arguing that God *needs* something?

Typical 4chan entitled attitude

>>10948470
I'm sure that there are a good many souls in Hell that tried blaming God for their damnation. Now they only have themselves.

>>10948498
They have themselves to blame for creating themselves?

>>10948506
They have themselves to blame for their their damnation.

>>10948517
But they're not responsible for their own creation though. Given the choice between eternal torment and non-existence, most people would choose non-existence. Why even give them the capacity to suffer?

>>10948527
They are responsible for their own damnation.

They weren't given the choice between eternal suffering and non-existence. They were given the choice between eternal suffering and eternal bliss. They chose eternal suffering.

Why do you think they would chose non-existence instead of eternal suffering when they already chose eternal suffering over eternal bliss?

In fact, if a single one of them chose non-existence instead of eternal suffering I'd be flabbergasted. They've already made such a poor decision as choosing eternal suffering over eternal bliss, that rules out them ever choosing anything else even slightly wiser.

Christcucks are truly masters of mental gymnastics. Absolutely incredible.

>>10948544
The point is, isn't the fact that beings who have the capacity to make the wrong choice exist in the first place kinda wrong? I mean, maybe God operates on some sort of 4D plane of logic, but *everything* that exists is part of his doing, even the ability for damnation. Why would he willingly create that ability?

>>10948558
>maybe God operates on some sort of 4D plane of logic
Hey there ya go.

>>10948558
Maybe because He wanted to create persons and not automatons.

>>10948558
are you implying Trump is god?

>>10948544
why Christians and liberals always talk about choice?

>>10948558
God created man in His image and delegated the responsibility of damnation to man.

>>10948612
Seems kinda like a raw deal desu

Where can I read fire sermon and others?
sry for being brainlet.

>>10948608
Liberals are essentially heretic/fallen Christians who have inverted Christian morality.

>>10948630
Not really. God gave us everything including this cool universe and our bodies and keeps us alive at every moment, and salvation is easy. The laws we're expected to follow are easy to keep. God will give us eternal bliss in Heaven. And it's all a free gift. That's as far from a "raw deal" as you can get. You're just ungrateful. I don't say that as an accusation. You just need to open your eyes.

jesus christ you retards it's called the harrowing of hell, and worthy spirits can be raised out of hell by baptism after death. it's all moot anyway because the concept of a metaphysical [or worse a physical] hell where your disembodied spirit remains sensate and punished is all a gross misinterpretation of Jesus' words and a disgusting mercenary coercion by semi-literate evil men in the church.

go back to rambling incoherently about Buddhism

>>10948674
>baptism after death

Begone Mormon.

>>10948679
begone, brainlet.

>Catechism of the Catholic Church:
>1257 God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.
It is entirely possible the fiery "Hell" you simpletons have dreamed up is empty, you ignorant slobs.

>1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."63 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

>inb4 buh-buh-but what if these "good" "men" were sinners huh? what if I say they don't make the cut???
let me remind you:

>Romans 11:32
>For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

>>10948667
What if I'm an Amazonian tribe member who's never heard of Christianity?

what a nice meme

>>10948919
before the Resurrection, this:
>>10948674

after the Resurrection, this:
>>10948725

>>10947338
In that event, which appears historically rare, then they would be without faith - an unfortunate life indeed

>>10947805
>Asceticism is simply conducive to enlightenment, enlightenment basically being seeing the world as it really is. Without metal clutter, bias, projection, or anything except the peaceful rawness.
>the world as it really is
What on Earth makes you think that?

bro drop the bias and just get with the peaceful rawness

>>10947584
>be Europe
>have Enlightment Age and btfo Christianity
>become the pinnacle of civilisation

Really makes you think

>>10947318
Thank you for this post, Anon, I think it's really going to help me in the long run.

>>10948646
where's the inversion? i'd say liberal morals are not inverted respective to christianity, just incomplete, they just took the tolerance parts of christianity without keeping any of the parts that maintain social order and keep some sort of legacy being passed from parents to children

>>10948991
enlightenment (the western one, not the buddhist one) and liberalism are just protestantism, there's no difference or break between the two, just the natural unfolding of everything that protestantism entailed

>>10949527
christianity existed to pacify the alpha males and keep women subservient to beta males. its a cuck faggot religion. the aryans and IE peoples did not practice it, the Greeks didn’t, the Persians did not. Its only necessary for effeminate populations or populations being feminized. Once they are transmuted into eunuchs they don’t require its morals any long. Priests are man tamers, they’re breaking beasts of prey. Europe was a place of debauched unholy violence before the Church and it immediately devolved into full on tribalist wars of annihilation after the Church. Forces beyond the power of pedophile hieratics are at work. The elements scream for blood, the soil of all the land on Earth demands tribute soon. we owe a large debt.

>>10949548
that depends, christianity could have taken many different paths, the Holy Roman Empire had the potential to unite europe while actualizing the masculine powers of pre-christian europe, instead we decided to take the overfeminized path.

christianity is probably irredeemable at this point, still have respect for catholics and orthodox, but yes, if there's going to be an spiritual revival it will have to be something non-christian, hopefully something that still respects the achievements of medieval christianity while acknowledging how everything took the wrong path of universalization

so is hell in real (not protestant) christianity actually not a metaphor for life without christ? I assumed there wasn't an actual flamepit of horror that god made for a laugh

>>10949656
hell is in a spectrum

>>10949663
ebin lad

>>10946197
>wanting a fast track to enlightenment

poor thing

>>10949565
it doesn’t depend. the German kings were feminized, a law based on Christian morals is effeminate. there was never a period where yielding to God and Papal authority was in congruence with Roman or Persian conquest oriented civilization

Ive seen Schmitt trying to argue this and its pure apologetics. The cross is a seal on phallic energy. The faith was designed to neutralize vigorous warrior castes

>>10949682
how did christians conquer more land than anybody else before or after them?

>>10949656
according to brainlet pew-warming Catholics: yes, hell is a real place.

according to some theologians, probably: it is a metaphysical place furthest or separate from God's love (an impossibility, i assure you). the unbaptized dead go there, unless by some divine exception, and you stay there until judgment at which point you are reclaimed by God

according to me: hell is the absence of the holy spirit. that is, hell is literally other people when they are being unreasonable, violent, petty backstabbing apes. that is why christian communities call upon the holy spirit to descend on them all the time, it is the spirit of fellowship and reason. literally the logos. when you die your sense perception ends, (You) falls away and what is left rejoins with the infinite. heaven is the presence of the holy spirit, and it exists where true believers in Christ gather. read 2 Corinthians.

>>10949682
>Christian morals are effeminate
How can pagan empires even compete?

>>10949787
also democracies unironically wins wars for some reason, which is kind of funny

>>10946564
was it autism?

>>10947820
>at least it never puts a vast majority of humanity in a place of eternal torture
What does?

>>10950163
he's not wrong though

>>10946919
>Guilt is a Christian thing.
No, idiotic misinterpretations by the plebs have made Christianity a guilt-based fear-mongering religion. Hamartia in the original Greek of the Gospels means literally “to miss the mark”, as with an arrow missing the target. It has been translated as “sin” in English. “Metanoia” means etymologically “beyond/change of (as in METAmorphosis) (the) mind”. It has been translated as “repentance”, and all of Christ’s exhortations to wake up and transform our minds as “Repent”. Paul also put a really strange seeming guilt-based spin on Christ’s teachings.

>>10950186
to be wrong you need to state something

if there is no self...

then who or what is to discover this fact?

to whom or to what does enlightenment occur ?

>>10951199
non-self

Neets are in ideal state to receive Buddhist wisdom.
Neet liberation when?

OML 280 posts later and not one fucking god damn concise answer.
Give me 5 books maximum.

>>10946256

its much better having no religion at all and just being anti natalist though.

>>10952420
I don't know if it is, it's almost like one oft hose anti-religion religions. Why even have kids if you're buddhist? Plus all this anti-doctrinal "just find out for yourself, man" stuff.

>>10952393
>(Very) basic overview)

In life, there is stress, anxiety, confusion, dissatisfaction, ill-ease. This is the First Noble Truth.

The causes of stress, anxiety, confusion, dissatisfaction, ill-ease are craving, aversion and ignorance. This is the Second Noble Truth.

The causes of causes of stress, anxiety, confusion, dissatisfaction, ill-ease can be renounced. This is the Third Noble Truth.

The way to renounce the causes of causes of stress, anxiety, confusion, dissatisfaction, ill-ease is the Noble Eightfold Path. This is the Fourth Noble Truth.


>Introductory texts

What the Buddha Taught by Walpola Rahula

In the Buddha's Words by Bhikku Bodhi

Mindfulness in Plain English


>Accessible primary texts

The Dhammapada

The Heart Sutra

The Middle Length Discourses of the Buddha

>>10951199
It's a question of terminology. The ordinary self doesn't exist, consisting of personality, traits aquired through culture, socialisation etc. But the primordial state of the mind exists, which is free from all of that. It has no "identification" but it is you

>can't meditate in the morning because I can't help staying up late at night
>can't meditate during the rest of the day because reasons
>meditating late at night makes me so energized that it's even harder not to stay up
gay indeed

>>10952586
yes but after a few days, the hours you will be awake will shift

>>10952523
Well done lad.

>>10952393
There are many sects in Buddhism, seeing it as one distinct community is retardation.

>>10951207
>>10952523

It's not a question of terminology, what you call the "primordial state of mind"

is actually you!

Just you thinking you've achieved some new level to your "everything is nothing" game.

This free from identification "thing" that also is you, that of course couldn't really be you because, it needs you to realize that YOU don't exist.

just do what buddah said and follow the right path, with right speech and right though?

wew lad.

>>10952393
>>10952518

>Basic concepts

Three Marks of Existence: All compounded things are impermanent, unsatisfying, and lacking in self-reality. It is grasping to these un-graspable things that causes us distress.

Dependent Origination: All things arise and fall dependent on other conditions; no one thing exists truly by itself. "This being, that becomes."

Insight ("prajna"): Liberating insight allows one the perceive the dependent nature of all things and let go of the grasping that keeps them feeling anxious, stressed, and uncertain.

Concentration/Focus ("samadhi"): Insight can only be realised by cultivating unified awareness of the present moment, through the practices the Buddha taught.

Ethics ("sila"): Cultivation of awareness cannot be achieved thoroughly if your mind is still defiled by excessive negative thoughts, such as ill-will towards others, grasping for hedonistic pleasures, inflated sense of social status, etc. Therefore, it is paramount that one practices ethical living, by abstaining from indulging in hedonism and developing compassion for others.

>>10952518
>noble truth.
>like social justice.
>not just truth,
>but noble truth.
>just like how justice is social,
>not just justice.

Buddhists are the most pretentious fucks in existence, their shit seems deep but only once you've breathed in your own farts for long enough to forget what fresh air smells like. Stop being such a pretentious fuck, holy shit. At least Christians don't act like their religion is some profound world-shattering fucking revelation.

>>10952523
>>10952635
>keep your mind blank for long enough and you will begin to forget who the fuck you are and what the fuck you were doing
>this is profound
lol ok

>>10946234
>>10946239

brainlets confirmed. please never reproduce

>>10952850
Are you telling us to detach from the world

>>10952635
This you doesn't exist though. You've just been told you are a white male christian american and you believed these imaginary identities are what you really are, when what you are is none of those.

>>10952850
stop desiring to reproduce

>>10952856
:^)

>>10947249
I doubt it very much. If so, then why do they let the west rape their countries with materialism? Why do the Nepalese whore out Mt. Everest to wealthy faggot thrillseekers? You don't let in a new religion (consumerism) unless your old one is on the way out. That's the entire gist of the islamic-western conflict

>>10946197
Summarize ?
I'll talk about Mahayana , coming from Chan/Dzogchen perspective, but if you read some real Theravada Masters like Bua you will see there is no contradiction.
There is no central text because Buddhism is about eliminating diseases. One medecine is not fit for every disease.
Reality has no explanation, all the teachings are but expedients and are to be abandoned once their purpose is fulfilled.
Even abandoning cravings is not the final goal; and the final goal is beyond words. One Chan metaphor to explain the various teaching devices is that of a woman calling her maidservant, not because anything is the matter, but because she wants her husband to hear her voice and realize she's home.

>>10952839
I mean, "social justice" is a prominent idea in Christianity, so it's not like Christianity itself is free from descriptive ideas.

And besides, "Noble Truth" means it's the truth that that the Aryans or Noble Ones perceive - i.e. if you achieve liberation, you'll accurately perceive these truths too.

>At least Christians don't act like their religion is some profound world-shattering fucking revelation.
Uhhhh... they explicitly do? John 8:32?

You know what it comes down to is that spirituality is men trying to negate their facticity. something was deeply wrong with reality for them and it stuck like a bone in their throat. But they trained their minds and their will to go neither "here" nor "there", nirvana. Paul Churchland is a physicalist whose views support this. The brain selects for ontological coherence and conceptual capture regardless of truth value, so traditions like this are what it looks like when this abstract feature of cognitive functioning is radicalized. There's some real blackpills in this shit bros

>>10952992
>I mean, "social justice" is a prominent idea in Christianity
stopped reading there. Christianity teaches about Justice, ask any self-respecting non-libshit christian and they will give you a doctrinal thesis on why social justice is fucking horseshit.and incompatible with the faith. In fact, it was the church fathers who addressed most of the heresies that are resurfacing, in no small part due to new-age hippie idiots.

>hurr durr liberation hurr durr noble ones hurr durr noble truth

>they explicitly do
"Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” - John 8:32
This is Jesus talking to the pharisees who have listened to his word, as part of the dispute with the pharasees of Judea over who's children Jesus' opponents are. How is this pretentious fart-huffing on par with "the noble truth" and "the eightfold path" and "the monkey mind" and all that other shit?
>the truth will set you free
Something any man can get behind
>Follow the noble truth of the eightfold path
pretentious fart-huffing hipster faggot that attracts hate like flies to shit.

>>10953114
yikes

>>10953114
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_social_teaching

>The ideas address oppression, the role of the state, subsidiarity, social organization, concern for social justice, and issues of wealth distribution.
>>social justice

As for the rest of your post, I really don't know what to say. You're clearly not interested in learning more about other philosophies and come off as extremely defensive.

>>10953220
yikes

>>10953229
No i just think you bastards are pretentious as fuck, i still cant bet over "noble truth", wtf is this shit?
also >implying i'm cuckthlic

Why are Buddhism always so full of shitposting

>>10953247
I mean, why shoudn't there be "noble truths?" Should all truths be ignoble, or kinda noble, or anti-noble?

You have to remember, Buddhism arose in an extremely different cultural context to the one we live in. Transplanting 21st post-industrial ideas onto aristocratic Indian society 2500 years ago is a good way to be offended or confused as to the message.

>>10953271
>what should truth be, noble, kinda noble, ignoble?
truth is truth retard, it needs no prefix or suffix, that would be like me putting "ostentatious" in front of every word, its super fucking pretentious and just makes me take you less seriously.

>Blah blah blah offended or confused as to message
tell me the message then. At least i can summarize my entire belief system in once sentence, you barely even start in an entire fucking thread.


Oh btw, something interested i found that i would like your opinion on: http://www.jubileeaustralia.org/page/about/Jubilee%20Buddhism%20and%20Social%20Justice.pdf

>>10952839
> At least Christians don't act like their religion is some profound world-shattering fucking revelation.

But they do, especially on this board. Its literally just "shut up and obey". I mean truth value notwithstanding, that's not very sophisticated or philosophically compelling.

>>10952839
>At least Christians don't act like their religion is some profound world-shattering fucking revelation
are you retarded? that's literally what the religion is founded on. ever heard of this guy named paul and THE ROAD TO DAMASCUS?

>>10948344
what? I don't care about that. It takes some pretty intense hatred to think someone ought to be tormented eternally, especially for not ever hearing of some books.

>>10953263
>china
>cultural preservation

>>10953318
I mean, all you're saying is that you don't like the term because it offends your sensibilities, you've said nothing about their actual content.

>At least i can summarize my entire belief system in once sentence
Buddhism is very much different to Christianity. It's not even necessarily a "religion", in the sense that it has a dogma, it has a holy book, etc. That's why westerners get confused about it - you can't place western ideas of "religion" onto it.

>you barely even start in an entire fucking thread.
I mean, the basics have all been said, what more do you need to know?

> http://www.jubileeaustralia.org/page/about/Jubilee%20Buddhism%20and%20Social%20Justice.pdf
Seems like a fairly reasonable piece. "Social justice" as a term predates college SJWs calling people racist for being white. Social justice primarily referred to creating a society that doesn't let people be victimized needlessly, whether that's through lack of work, corruption, etc. It was a very popular idea in the 19th and 20th centuries.

>>10953319
>>10953340
>But they do, especially on this board.
i don't think you understand what i mean't by "profound world-shattering FUCKING revelation". The Buddhists act with this pompous air of "holier than thou" bullshit in their pretentious wording and their self-important moral posturing about how sitting in a corner somewhere and doing nothing for 10 hours a day is much more helpful than volunteering in a soup kitchen. Then they boast about how they are "enlightened" for doing fucking nothing all day. Reading anything by that anon just came off with the intoxicating stench of starbucks and estrogen, like "nobe truth" which i refuse to ignore because no two words have sounded more self-righteous and pompous than those two words.

My problem is with the self-righteous, oh-so-enlightened, holier-than-though hypocritical attitude i see far too often among these faggots. They act like they're such special snowflakes for lacking a self and other shit like that, its fucking tumblr tier and pisses me off. I never see this level of pompous self-righteous snowflake behaviour at any christian church i've gone to (granted there are the individuals who think highly of themselves, the pharisees) but when i come in the pastor treats me like an equal and my brothers and sisters don't act like they're some special enlightened snowflake, because everything about salvation is external to them and thus they are humbled, they have nothing to boast about except the behicle of their salvation (christ). Contrast this with budhists, who think themselves equal to a god since their so called lack-of-self is the universe or some bullshit like that.

>>10953319
>that's not very sophisticated or philosophically compelling
have you considered investigating their apologetics? Start with Summa Theologica if you have not.

>>10953383
>my bullshit is special because it cannot be summarized
ok

>I mean, the basics have all been said, what more do you need to know?
give me the basics then.

>Social justice primarily referred to creating a society that doesn't let people be victimized needlessly, whether that's through lack of work, corruption, etc.
why did you post a link to the catholic social justice stuff on wiki then? What was the point of that?

>>10953385
lmao what are you even babbling about? get a dog bro.

>>10953420
> get a dog bro.
??????

>>10953399
Buddhism says is suffering and dissatisfaction in life. This primary stems from our psychological grasping at things that are ultimately fleeting and subject to change - beauty, pleasures from food, sex, social status, physical health, national pride, coming first in a competition, leveling up in a video game, finances, etc. None of these things are "bad", and we need to fulfill them to a certain extent, but they can never *ultimately* fulfill us.

If we really want to let go of our dissatisfaction, we have to teach ourselves not to rely on these things. At first this can be hard, because we've become so attached to them for worth, but if we can see just how much they're keeping us on a treadmill, we will be motivated to make the effort.

Buddhism says we more or less live in a constant state of addiction. By letting go of addictions, in the many forms it takes, we can instead experience reality unperturbed.

>>10953426
bro
get a dog

>>10953466
what do i need a dog for?

>>10953463
thanks for telling me what i figured out in grade-school anon.
Once you're done telling me that hedonism is a bad thing, please tell me why Buddhism is worth my time.

>>10953480
I can't tell you that it's worth your time, you decide for yourself if it is or isn't.

If you see no issue in pursuing entertainment, career success, social status etc. as a path to fulfillment and stability, then Buddhism probably isn't for you. However, if you feel those things can't give you what you're looking for and want a deeper sense of fulfillment and stability, then it might have something to offer you.

>>10953495
>fulfillment and stability
funny you should say that because i'm taking a class right now on "what is the good life" and i already found the answer.

>Love God, and give thanks to him for the good in your life, and enjoy it while it is there. And then remember him in the darkness, so that your soul and character may prosper and you enjoy the light that much more on its return.
In other words:
>Go with the flow and have faith in God.

There's no fulfillment in sitting in a corner avoiding life, that's what we call a coward.

>>10953561
>There's no fulfillment in sitting in a corner avoiding life, that's what we call a coward.

Except Buddhism doesn't tell you to do that

>>10948241
While I concede the point, it's a bit of a strawman as presented.

>>10946197
As i explained on /x/ where you posted the same fucking question.

Read the fucking Lam Rim.

>>10953372
this

>>10953385
Good post but

>start with the summa
lol

>>10952854

>This YOU doesn't exist though
>>>>>>>>>>YOU've just been told you are a white male christian american
>and YOU believed these imaginary identities are what you really are

>but really guys once YOU realize all this YOU stuff is a joke, YOU can totally take on an air of superiority with your fellow weaboos'

Look at the shit you type!

Look at this insanity!

If any of you are claiming to be walking ego-less being's or any similar nonsense about reality lacking duality , ie nothing and everything being the same, being and non-being being the same, then fucking reevaluate your lives.


Your concepts don't make sense, and claiming they make sense to you if your cool enough to realize that "you" is LIKE UNIVERSAL MAN just "try" hard enough,

Fucking bonkers.

>>10954620
Non-duality by definition cannot be grasped by rational intellect. Non-dual awareness transcends reductive logic, which boxes experiences into "self" and "other."

Now, I'm not saying this shit is easy to grasp, but it's certainly plausible, if one is willing to forgo all their psychic conditioning.

>>10946751
/thread

buddhism = soul-suicide

> Buddhism
> not Hinduism
Gtfo off my board you pleb shits

>>10946721
>you humans