/lit/ - Literature

>>10925871
Because Jung is a hack

>>10925897
don't tell pidorsen that he'll freak out. It's true though, idk if to feel bad that Jung has influence or to feel good that Jung pulled the sub 120iqs away from attempts to study the immaterial as it ultimately should be.

Watch Kung Fu Panda, it's an initiatic tale. Remember the line: "There is no secret ingredient." On the one hand we have psychology of religion showing this is the case, it's all within you, conceivably your mind is sufficient and don't need a community of people bullying you, on the other we have esoteric folks protecting their precious little sekrit club and empty box.

Please. Read Jung's 7 Sermons of the Dead if you have doubts about his esoteric credentials.

>>10925944
Man i wish this was a physical place id buy you a beer

Fuck yiu yiu funny bitch

>>10925871

Because the Traditional doctrines are complete in themselves. Metaphysics is eternal and unchanging, the only thing changing being the outward form it's clothed in under various traditions. There is no need to try to dissect and analyze the eastern traditions from a modern, rationalist and scientific viewpoint, doing so can only distort them. Jung's works largely ignore the possibility of a transcendent metaphysical teaching underlying the eastern traditions and instead focuses on 'psychologizing' various parts of eastern teachings, attempting to explain in a scientific and rational way as pertaining to modern concepts like a collective unconsciousness or inner psychological phenomena.

Jung had some valuable insights and observations but if you get too deep into studying him and letting him influence your thinking you will get much further from understanding the essence of the eastern traditions than you would by just studying the eastern texts themselves. Jung is interesting and some of his ideas are valuable and interesting; but it's retarded to take him as any sort of authority of eastern traditions.

>>10925871

In Rene Guenon's words, metaphysics has to do with the universal. The universal is the non-manifested, that is to say, states of being that do not imply any manifestation and states of manifestation themselves in their "principial" mode (their pure act, in aristotelian terms). This just means that metaphysics has to do with principles or archetypes (principium being Cicero's translation of archai), *real* archetypes, and not psychological images.

All manifestation and phenomenalism, whether subtle (mental) or gross (physical) are by their very nature conditioned by forms. The metaphysical view pierces "through" the formal, so-to-speak, and views things as they are in their pure object. This is the real meaning of the "third eye," not any type of intense DMT experience.

Therefore, the issue with the Jungian school is that they reduce all to what is psychological. The "archetypes" of the Jungian school are just an arbitrary pattern of "common" mythical figures in the sexual libido that the primitive paints his unstable perception with.

In contrast, metaphysics deals with principles that transcend all manifestation including the psychic. The initiate realizes metaphysical states through a knowledge of these states, not indirectly or theoretically but through intuition; for this reason, there are no real "possessing" of metaphysical states: not only are those supra-individual and extra-individual states not merely "his," they transcend form itself - including exotic psychic phenomena.

Therefore, the being can only *realize* these states. In fact, all things can be said to be intellectual supports to a greater or lesser degree, the psychic included. Even in mere discussion the "matter" and "substance" at hand is just an aggregation of dead letters, whereas the "form" or "essence" of the conception transcends the support and reaches the spirit. This is enough of a thread alone to get you through Rene Guenon's metaphysical works.

Search up Guenon's article called Oriental Metaphysics. This is a great introduction to his thought.

>>10925871
What's up with Guénon being all over the place right now?

>>10926336

>Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion—at that time I descend Myself.

I like seeing this nigga being mentioned here often. His hometown is the same as mine and it didn't produced that much great minds (except the two of us). Thank you /lit/ for stimulating my local pride

>>10926395
You'r welcome, you seem like a good guy anon

>>10926046
>>10926326
Is the Red Book still worth reading, according to him?

>>10925871

>tfw you realize the reason that Guenon always refers to both the reader and himself with 'we' and 'ours' is not because of an old-fashioned way of writing but a nod to Atman being identification with Brahman and the fundamental unity of all manifestation in Ishvara; the perception of difference between individuals being illusionary and contingent.

>>10926395
Hi neighbor. Make that three great minds.

>>10926452

I don't know if Guenon made comments on particular works of Jung like the Red Book or not.

It depends on what you are going for. There is often a trend of grouping all the major early 20th and 19th century writers on religion together and acting like they all similarly and accurately captured in writing the 'esoteric/wisdom/transcendent' stuff underlying religion (Jung, Girard, Guenon, Frazer, Eliade, Huston Smith, the orientalists etc) while in practice many of them had completely opposite views, some didn't understand certain things, some were good only on some subjects etc.

If you are genuinely interested in understanding eastern Metaphysics/Tradition then read Guenon, Coomaraswamy and primary eastern texts.

Jung was a psychiatrist who, despite his time spend delving into fringe and esoteric ideas; approached eastern doctrines from the western standpoint, blurring together what he studied with western views and conception. If you are interested in psychoanalysis, the unconscious, the imagination, psychology etc then Jung is worth reading but if are interested in the East 99% of the time you are better served by reading primary texts and Guenon.

>>10926424
Thank you my man, much love to you

>>10926483
Dingue, Blois? Quel tiékar?

>>10925975
THANKS

>>10926336
there is a dedicated stream of right wings with hideous souls who had no interest in religion at all until recently when it became a way to differentiate themselves, the one's with vague intelligence picked catholicism which means thinking is kept to a minimum, the slightly more adept minds choose traditionalism because actually grappling with the baggage these faiths carry can be avoided by appeals to social structures and LARPing as philosophers, without thinking again. You can associate yourself with Hindu mysticism without being a mystic, and with Hermeticism without even reading the Corpus, because Guenon and Evola talk about it. Its really brilliant, I've seen this with music and other social currents, parasites find high traffic junctures to post up and steal information and coat themselves in signs they think are attractive, none of them will take this stuff with any sincerity in 5 years time when they're all nihilist elim materialists, hegelians are the same way, caths as well, complete fucking frauds of the soul. There's also an incentive to capture more gentle souls, who are higher iq into the rw hate machine, and this is another pathway for that. There will be almost no citations in any of these threads from any authors works except the most pathetic convert faggotry like >>10926392 and then regurgitating what Guenon said about Jung, as if there aren't endless heterodox METAPHYSICAL (what a faggot word) schools of thought from each major religion. There are probably 5-10 different popular interpretations of Vedanta, Yoga and the same goes for Buddhism, which is even more laughable that they think they could understand these highly nuanced systems with these reductionist statements about them. I gotta hand it to anyone who gets into it, you are saving yourself a lot of mental energy by just giving up at the gates and sitting here in costume of carapaces of other people's thoughts. Very clever
>>10926395
>>10926424
see, this is borderline reddit agreeableness and nigger thought. this is something a spic in a jail cell says about a football player. Its borderline animal thoughts put into speech
>>10926536
>>10926483
>>10927906
more of this faux levity, faux familiarity, nothing of substance. All of it is just ashes in their mouths. Basically dead already. Most "mystics" are dead already. Metaphysics is such a filthy word, dead letter, dead verse, dead prayers, dead eyes, necrotic hands clasped, waiting for the void, can't stop staring at reflections. obsessed with tradition and other people's lives, talk of the self, always talking about the Self but their selves are constructed from watching others. Not any different from normalfags. Nothing here

>>10928003
sounds like the usual nietzschean screed

you're just as reductive as the people you mock

>>10926336
Q predicted this.

>>10928003
The fact that you wasted so much time on such a bitter, substanceless post, and criticize some people for being nice to each other, shows who’s really the shallow douchebag here.

t. someone who has not even read Guenon and Evola and is just browsing this thread out of curiosity

>>10926509
This is a fair response. It also pays to remember that Jung thought different races/peoples had different psychological make ups. Much of what he criticized Freud for was not for being out right wrong, but rather universalizing Jewish psychology. Jung diverged from Freud to map out the psychology of Germanic peoples, and people who are into Jung should keep this context and be wary of trying to universalize much of Jung's work, although arguably some portions of it can and were intended to be.

When I read Jung I approach it more as reading the diaries of an intelligent man on spiritual quest documenting his thoughts and findings. This way it serves as inspiration not doctrine.

>>10928003
(You)