/lit/ - Literature

I think JBP has another answer that is maybe very helpful to the answer of meaning - but i'm tired of the memeing of him so i don't want to say more.

Ever since I got acquainted with the Buddhist ideas I was pretty much free of it. It may resurge at any moment for all I know. But I know how to act if it does.

I'll break down my personal progression for you.

>raised Christian because parents said so.
>age 15 starting doubting as edgy neckbeards do. came to 4chan and it began to affect me.
>age 18 I was in full degenerate mode and thought self-pleasure was the only point to life. had oneitis over this stupid girl for a long time and judged my self-worth on whether or not she reciprocated my "love."
>by age 20 I was ready to kill myself. never been so physically, spiritually overweight. often gave that same old "it's all pointless cos everything dies."
>age 21 I was having anxiety attacks cos I'd think of something abstract like the galaxy and just be immobilized with existential angst. one day I saw a /fit/ inspirational thread and started looking through it. tl;dr I realized that I was the only one in charge of my life
>started to lose weight, started reading again, learned to find solace in the beauty of an afternoon sky's cloudburst. learned to be truthful with myself.
>discovered that seeing a sight of great beauty still made me feel a connection to a higher power
>furthermore, realized that my rebellion against religion was just a childish way to get back at my parents for over-structuring my young life
>kept on the rough road to self-improvement every day and found purpose along that journey

Now, at age 24, I've never been more at peace with my place in existence. The way I see it is: you are alive right now and the fleeting scintilla of time that is your life is a blessing. To see the might and majesty of the world and be able to comprehend its eternal beauty is the most magnificent thing you will ever experience. But you can't just instantaneously grasp this. You've really got to work on yourself and rout out your bad habits. Take personal responsibility and see that no one but yourself is in control of your life. Unfortunately, the majority of us have been brought up in a society where having absolutely zero standards is actively encouraged. To liberate yourself from that lowly way of life is to meet yourself for the first time.

When you hear "the truth will set you free" it may seem like a cliche but I hear it as "the truth will dissolve away your corruptions." So I guess what I'm saying is learn to let things go and learn to do the right thing for yourself every day.

Also, you ought to go read Marcus Aurelius.

>>10906656
One more thing I forgot to add, and perhaps the most important for people like us.

SPEND YOUR TIME PROPERLY.

Time is the one and only thing in this life that you can lose and never recover. Start paying attention to the passing of time and what activities take up a lot of it. "Budget" your hours and you'll be astonished at how it can fall in to place. And again I acknowledge that living in the first world makes this difficult when you're starting out. The only activities normies engage in are those that devour time and produce nothing in return. You're better than that.

I believe in you, OP. And I believe in the anons that lurk among us, longing for some kind of answer to the questions they can't articulate. We're all gonna make it.

I'll try to give my very high level intellectual journey and explain how I am in the ultimate dead end.

>up to 17 I barely read any books (raised in Muslim family but I never really gave a crap and it never affected my thoughts) and just did the school work in front of me while playing vidya and doing well in school with zero intellectual curiosity
>picked university subject I hated and realised I was an autist doomed to have no friends
>start reading recreationally (a lot, but mainly fiction) from 17 and becoming more and more patrician; paid attention to politics from when I was about 22
>discover 4chan in 2012 and realise every other conversational medium is dishonest shit in comparison
>learn about Stirner, skepticism, and the Munchhausen Trilemma; become more exasperated with the dishonest fradulence of continentals; realise how to analyse them intellectually and also realise their material incentives for talking nonsense

>me at 27, now
>fully see the arbitrariness of all philosophical axioms
>fully realise the fashion related trends within modern edgy male thinking (religion going from a figure of fun by Hitchens and Dawkins to the current use of religion as a sacrosanct ornament among lit and cutting edge edgy internet types)
>also realise that Nietzche is a bullshit launching pad for pseuds
>see all practical personal philosophies as limiting- making myself a schedule makes me want to go crazy; making myself a to-do list makes me anxious
>currently reading history books (have read little history before) and it is making me zoom out and see morals and the current times as even more pathetic and worthless
>reading Elliot Rodger and Houellebecq and internet things blackpilled me socially
>currently feel constantly guilty about everything I do, don't do, and how I do it

I am not out of the crisis and it is getting worse. My only solution is to start doing what interests me and ignoring criticism and the pseuds but I can't quite do that yet.

I realized that meaning was already present, already there. I didn't need to create it like a french existentialist or to smoke the opiate of the masses because my meaning was already ontologically there in me. It is me. "Meaning" doesn't exist. The moment you conceptualize it is the moment you operate a specific distinction which sewers you from what's already there.
My mistake was deceiving myself and not understanding what a human really is. Alienation and return towards the self. Now I feel a tremendous empathy towards everyone and everything which is almost unbearable at times.
Sometimes I miss my old cynical self (masturbating to hentai games at 3am while laughing at the stupidity of the world felt great, I have to admit) and that's why I still come here on 4chan, to galvanize those memories so that they may serve as compass to orient myself in life.

>>10905712
wearing sunglasses inside

whoever made this shit has clearly never read half of the shit he recommends and most likely just namedrops from /lit/ memes

>>10906774
Whoa dude you're right. I was actually wrong just because you said so.

>>10906755
>tfw have moved on from my old NEET self but still can't let go of 4chan

>>10905712
absurdism is evil, Sartre and Kierkegaard are garbage, Shunryu Suzuki is a hack fraud

I never had one. coming from a pragmatist family, I am not a brainlet. It's obvious that meaning is natural, it's what life is made out of.

>>10906656
Are you a christian again?

>>10906874
Actually, yes I am. I attend church regularly and even play in the band. After being gone from it for so long and living the opposite perspective I've decided that Christianity is actually not as bad as 17 year old me thought it was. I fully acknowledge that some of the rituals are silly but nevertheless I think the teachings of Jesus are all one needs to lead a righteous life. It just takes a while until you can truly see beyond yourself, beyond the ego-constructed illusions, and find your connection to God.

>>10906852
>absurdism is evil
ok
>satre is trash
ok
>suzuki is a fraud
ok
>kierkegaard is garbage
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEee

Do you need a deep philosophical background to read Schopenhauer?

>>10907266
He makes extensive reference to other philosophers. But there's no reason you couldn't understand it without knowing the references, provided you're intelligent enough to tease out what the person he's referring to must have been saying given the context of his argument.

>>10907280
this applies to NEECHEE too, pseuds don’t want you to know this

>>10905712
by having a goal in life (an ambitious goal helps immensely, but the cost of it is that if you failed set ambitious goal, it can fuck you pretty bad)

Shitposting like a madman and having a busy and tiring blue collar job

Realise that existentialism is a fallacy. You do not have infinite potentials to actualise as, you are a human with essence, form, and telos, that pre-empt your existence. Your potentialities are limited and derived from that human form and telos. Right and wrong actualisations are derived from the ethics of human form and telos, and are knowable.

>>10907280
This. Schoppy is a good clear understandable writer, even if you don't agree with his philosophy.

>>10907288
The aphorism collection works get tedious and difficult. Even if each snippet is well written the overall coherence suffers. Stick to his treatises at first.

>>10907334
mannish faced peasant

ecofascism

>>10907334
Scholastics pls go

>>10907334
>this is the height of christian metaphysics

>>10907381
>man is in a fallen state
>dissatisfied with an explanation of being in this state
how is this possible?

>>10905712
Basically went ten years in atheistic (no worse, apatheistic) spiritual dissipation, thinking suicide was the most reasonable thing to do- and not just in my case in the case of anyone who had the notion- that I was living in spite of myself and just waiting for the shit to hit the fan to motivate and catalyze my inevitable suicide.

Some stuff happened and I tried converting to Christianity but didn't find much of the doctrine I was hearing on youtube (dumb proddies of various stripes) very comforting, particularly how they treated those who had never heard the gospel. I had a lot of sleepless nights envisioning myself in hell because I didn't see how this doctrine could be just and therefore I figured maybe I wasn't among the elect or maybe I just didn't have the discernment. Two things were certain though; my faith would be motivated purely by trying to avoid hell and I couldn't really see myself as more worthy than these countless billions who never even had the opportunity to be saved. So I chose restful nights and undertook the process of trying to debunk everything I'd learnt about in the previous month. So I dived into atheism but being considerate of these things, needless to say I didn't find a lot of the rhetoric convincing. What I did find convincing however was the Robert Price approach of comparing Christianity to other mythologies. Following this strain, I went on a fascinating path of syncretic study and occultism. I was particularly interested in gnosticism for a time because my dislike of evangelical and Catholic theology had manifested in a blatant mistrust of God. Soon these feelings dissipated though because I wanted to get away from dogmas and specific mythos and boil down metaphysics to its most fundamental elements. Obviously things like Buddhism and Taoism being a natural fit and also relatively popular moved to the forefront. But ultimately I found neoplatonism most resonant. Ultimately though I felt some eerie calling back to Christianity and I wondered if maybe there was a less profane form of Christian doctrine I hadn't considered. That is what I finally found in Orthodoxy. When I started reading up on Orthodoxy, everything became remarkably clear. The doctrine of paradise and hell being the subjective experience of being in the presence of God's glory. The encouragement of personal revelation and mystical experience. I was home.

I cannot emphasize enough how retarded and spiritually dissipated all the other Christian sects are. Its absolutely astonishing how distinguishable Orthodoxy is in kind from these other traditions.

>>10905712
>understand truth as "what is"
>see the limitation of mind as, on one level an imitation of the world through sense, and another an ordering of sense memory into kind
>see that "what is" of myself is "act"
>the mind orders for me the various types of act from intent and their outcome
>see the source of act, the intent, which if was the source of all action would create the best outcome. The good.
>find the good to be the element of stability and strength of "what is"
>remember that mind can only form an imitation of "what is"
>allow the good to be the intent of my act and find material existence in that which i act upon
>see the good not as representation but for what it is, little by little
>possess the closest thing to truth that man can possibly possess and see that there is no limit to its comprehension, in being

>>10906749
>just started reading history at the age of 27
>thinks he has any sense of making judgements about literally anything
continue studying history for at least another 5 years before you think you know jack shit. You are ironically more of a psued than any of the people you accused of being. Your only intellectual insight is shallow attacks and nothing even close to valuable. You disgust me more than edgy basement dwellers and fedora atheists ever will

>>10907530

You're a tard charlatan who thinks history "has, like, such profound lessons man!"

>>10907407
aren't those people still screwed though?

>>10907266
Schopenhauer is more likely to get you INTO an existential crisis than out of one.

>>10906470
Well then you're an idiot because Peterson is just tepid Nietzsche

>>10907582
You are an angry idiot trying desperately to recover that dumbfuck post you made. It's all about context, context, context. Trying to understand anything that cant be proved with scientific method without a deep understanding of history is the ultimate way to detect the real charlatans, especially in the modern age where it's uses are downplayed and it's education neutered. I don't blame you, I pity you for attempting to travel the road you're traveling without the brainpower to read the map

>>10905712
If you randomly murdered a stranger would you kill yourself by the end of the day? I think not. So if immorality can't compel you to kill yourself how can existential angst be a reason to believe in morality and likewise for religion? Existential despair is a spook.

>>10907627
because things will get pretty uncomfortable if all you do is fap and eat. A motivation is not necessarily a telos.

>>10907627
Are you actually being genuine or is this the mental capacity of the people in this board?

I fucking hate this thread

>>10907621

I know your type. You are a pathological humanitard who deals in mass verbiage and embarrassing scientism. You wouldn't even admit the sky is blue unless it was written in a book by a famous dead person.

>>10907633
>because things will get pretty uncomfortable if all you do is fap and eat.
I have worse faults. But really I never said that. I am more like Nietzche in that I want to grab life by the testicles. Success and failure being meaningless doesn't mean that you should disdain them. It also means that you can love them equally. Embrace your nature as first among equals: anoint yourself for your fast and do not pretend to suffer greatly.

this sort of 'crisis' is not something to be "solved" by subscribing to some sort of meme position

rather you dissolve the feelings by participating and acting in the world - forming meaningful relaitonships with others, getting a better job career etc

this kind of thing is not a legitimate philosophical problem

>>10907668
One skill you most definitely have is writing sentences that have nothing of substance and their own use is only to put in the final word in order to downplay the pile of filth you posted earlier. You are literally attacking people for laughing at your attempt to come to a philosophical and religious conclusion in the context of western thought without ever reading it's history. Again, your blind arrogance and lack of basic self reflection is disgusting. You believe calling the thing up top the "sky" and it's color "blue" is a conclusion you came up with within a vaccume and the ultimate truth, unable to investigate where these terms even came from and if other perspectives exist

>>10907710

>The history of an idea is essential to understand the idea

Hohohoho

You should have posted that immediately and saved me the trouble of replying

>>10907587
No. I think under this conception of judgement all the intuitions about eschatology ring true. Of course some will be so worldly and evil that they have little hope of overcoming their selfishness and being reconciled with god. There are others who have no been of the world. Who have lived selflessly and have been deeply compassionate. The Jains come to mind for example. These people will have understanding. Is Christ important? Of course, its his perfection that we will all behold on the day of judgement Those who have fallen short of this perfection (the Christians among them) but only by so much will see that Christ was what they had been without. People can receive salvation after death, knowing the living God isn't a matter of reading a book or otherwise accruing information, its recognizing the absolute integrity of this figure to the perfected soul. The question is, why would someone who has only ever known the world willingly gamble their salvation on a lesser figure such as Gautama, a desperate and imperfect human striving for the divine? Those who already have this perfect example have no reason to turn away and chase after exotic mysteries unless they are still very lost.

>>10907759
reminder that Jews are the ones who will preach the gospel in the end times

>>10907680
>being a Nietzshwit
>2018

>>10907766
what do you mean?

>>10907718
What you think you're doing
>The mechanics manual is not needed to drive the car, as long as I understand the fundamentals of turning the wheel and pushing the gas pedal I can travel to any destination
What you're actually doing
>I don't like how the car drives based on this this and this, here's how to fix it based on my genius theories I came upon on my own, I don't actually know how a car works but that knowledge is useless, mechanics and engineers are useless, please listen to my expertise
The fact that you can't understand something this basic says it all

>>10905712
In all honesty my ongoing crisis with existence has only gotten worse over the years,
but I see it as a cross that gets heavier as I become stronger.

I think my first real existential crisis was making the decision to become atheist after being raised in a southern baptist pseudo-cult my entire life. That was a pretty big first step for me as, much like the song I used to sing in church, "though none went with me" I still decided to reject the teachings of my upbringing. A decade later and Jordan Peterson would lead me to think about my Biblical upbringing in a different and slightly more positive light.

I have steadily adopted many spiritual teachings into my life as I grow and learn in a somewhat cherry picked manner. I suppose in a way it's kind of Ubermensch but instead of making up my own complete meaning from nothing it's more that I've taken the parts I like from here and there and discarded the parts I dislike in an à la carte fashion.

At first my existential crisis was more like, "there isn't a God and there is no after life", which was sort of a relief because now damnation was one last thing to worry about, but now it's morphed into something closer to, "I am an ant on a rock hurdling through infinite space surrounded by other ants that don't realize they are ants and that could potentially cause me a great deal of pain and suffering out of their own ignorance."

>>10907207
This, desu. Kierkegaard was nothing short of a prophet.