/lit/ - Literature

>>10885101
Greece is in the East, so start with the Greeks still applies for eastern philosophy.

>>10885107
Interestingly Western and Eastern philosophy began at around the same time (500 BC). I think while the Greeks were getting started, it was the Chinese who were making the first efforts in the Orient.

Start with the Buddha

>>10885107
dude if you think about it east and west are all just relative to where you are

>>10885101
Mozi
Confucius (especially anything in Imperial Exams later)
Zhuang Zhi
Gongsun Longzi
Guanzi

there's a lot of other ones. consult sima qian's history book. it's the section on the hundred schools, but if you google hundred schools you might get the maoist purge tactic instead of the historian.

>>10885186
Is Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching not a good start? It's one of the earliest and most well-known scriptures and apparently influences Confucious and the rest of the Hundred Schools...

>>10885150
Woah...

>>10885101
Start with feng youlan history of chinese philosophy and read the original texts of the major authors quoted in it.

>>10885196
it's a good start but you might also think it's stoner philosophy.

The Indians and the Chinese

What do people think of the likes of Alan Watts and Robert Pirsig?

>>10885726
I listened to lots of Alan Watts and now I want to read into Zen properly, although i'm not sure who to read/where to start. From what I gathered Watts is a very fun introduction but on many levels does get things a bit off. Not saying he's bad but he's more of a spiritual entertainer than an actual teacher, he is an excellent orator though.

>>10885726
>>10885885
White people preaching Eastern philosophy is the most cringe worthy psued posturing that can ever happen in the West. They can never appreciate the nuances of what it means to truly practice the ideas when they live in a culture so far removed from those value systems so instead they give you these empty platitudes and "mystical" ideas when in fact Eastern philosophy is incredibly practical and based in the real world.

>>10885908
Agree with this. Schopenhauer is dope though.

>>10885101

OP, read 'Introduction to the Study of Hindu Doctrines" by Guenon, it doubles as an intro to eastern thought generally

>>10885908
are you an easterner? could you give a specific example or two of eastern ideas that a westerner would be unable to fully appreciate or grasp?

is it just that westerners can't understand the eastern ways or is it that most westerners have never been exposed to the real deal so they're more easily duped by hucksters who dress up their fraudulent ideas in the less familiar terms of the East?

>>10885908
>>10885982
Let me tell you the reason White people preaching Eastern philosophy sounds cringe worthy.

You see, Eastern philosophy is essentially very simple ideas dressed up in poetic aphorisms relating to nature. Instead of saying something like "do things in moderation", like Aristotle would say, they'll come out with some bullshit metaphor like

>Water always flows to the centre
>Be like water, and essence of the water shall be in your spirit

So when a White person takes this, and tries to rephrase it in a way Westerners can understand, well, there isn't really any way of paraphrasing this without sounding like a ponce.

There are literally no complex ideas in Eastern philosophy because it is quintessentially ascetic, much like the Greek Stoics and Ascetics, except the Greeks had much more tangible, useful messages in their texts.

Years of cultural immersion until you develop an Eastern perspective. The only reason you can start with the Greeks is that you were raised in a Western Culture so the ideas should already somewhat fit within your mental framework and even then this board is filled with people who don't get Homer bitching about his characters and boats.

>>10886033
>you were raised in a Western Culture
People today grew up with japanese TV shows, anime, manga, light novels, visual novels and JRPGs.
Does this stuff really count as Western Culture?

>>10885908
>>10886028

>>10886096
>I do yoga and talk about good/bad karma because it falls in line with my cultural Christianity

>>10885908
>Eastern philosophy is incredibly practical and based in the real world.
Bruh it's the complete opposite of that. Refer to Nietzsche -

You desire to LIVE "according to Nature"? Oh, you noble Stoics, what fraud of words! Imagine to yourselves a being like Nature, boundlessly extravagant, boundlessly indifferent, without purpose or consideration, without pity or justice, at once fruitful and barren and uncertain: imagine to yourselves INDIFFERENCE as a power—how COULD you live in accordance with such indifference? To live—is not that just endeavouring to be otherwise than this Nature? Is not living valuing, preferring, being unjust, being limited, endeavouring to be different? And granted that your imperative, "living according to Nature," means actually the same as "living according to life"—how could you do DIFFERENTLY?

>>10886144
Maybe you should try reading Eastern philosophy before trying to denounce it

>>10886156
I did. It's not practical. It's full of mysticism and borders on supernatural. It's more religion than philosophy.

>>10886078
Those are things, culture is how people interpret those things.

>>10886028
This anon is a /pol/ expat is easy to tell. They have a unreasonable bent agaisnt anything Eastern due to inferiority complexes.
This post is boiled down to a angry neckbeard going “asians never wrote anything of value”

>>10886372
Yet when people on 4chan praise Asian culture for anything they are angry neckbeard weaboos.

Your pathetic attempt at insulting me failed hard.

>>10886386
The people calling others weebos for reading eastern lit or philosophy in /lit/ are /pol/ expats. There’s literally no reason to have such violent reactions to it unless you’re driven by ideological convictions.

>>10885101
start with the chinks

>>10886398
>anything I don't like is /pol/

Great. I'm apolitical by the way, don't give a fuck about current affairs, race, or any of your shit.

>>10886144

This post exemplifies why westerners often struggle to understand eastern metaphysics, a concept that is as subtle and with as many applications as Dharma will go right over their head because they try to define through western conceptions or frame their mental response in terms of what certain western thinkers thought about it.

In order to understand eastern thought you have to study each teaching in the context of the overall tradition they belong to and what those traditions teach about that doctrine.

Just read tao te ching and listen to some alan watts and you'll have explored all that's of any worth regarding eastern philosophy.

>>10885908
obviously. still, you can try to understand something and read books about it written by people who are knowledgeable. of course, the language gap is always there, but i read greeks withouth speaking old greek

>>10885263
Indian thought and Chinese thought are two different schools with little convergence outside of some synthetic Buddhist traditions

>>10886028
you have obviously no idea. for a start, try reading François Jullien before you spill your bullshit

>>10885196
It reads like a Terrence McKenna rambly lecture.

>>10886770
lmao

>there are actually people this dumb

>>10886028
>There are literally no complex ideas in Eastern philosophy because it is quintessentially ascetic
>he has never read Zhuangzi

>>10885101
>Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan's Sourcebook in Indian Philosophy

The Indians' writings are the oldest, and their ideas will influence China (plus Tibet, Japan, and Korea), so it makes sense to start there. This is a great book because it has an incredibly wide range but doesn't belabor anyone too deeply. The writings themselves can be obtuse, but the commentary is thorough and simple. It's dated in one or two areas, but I still think this is one of the best intros.

I haven't read >>10885207 but it seems like a nice next step.

If you're interested in Confucianism, go Analects > Mencius > Great Learning > Doctrine of the Mean. The former two aren't too difficult with thorough footnotes on the historical references. The latter two are both short and concise but incredibly obtuse.

>>10887952
the Indians writings are not the oldest the I Ching might be upwards of 2-3 thousand years old and its the basis for the Daodejing and the later Zhuangzi and Lietzi

>>10887958

The Vedas were were being passed down orally thousands of years before any of the great chinese texts

>>10885150
fuck

>>10885150
Real talk

>>10886028
Which languages can you speak and read fluently from the east?

>>10888159
not him but the chinese did not have less of a tradition building over thousands of years before they started using writing. the divination that led to the i ching is based on a good deal of time of development.

>>10888952
Japanese, not fluently enough to be considered native, but good enough to probably be able to study at a Japanese university.

I haven't read any Japanese philosophy though.

>>10885186
>no Nichiren
REeeeeee

Related, so I don't want to make separate thread. I'm fascinated with the history of mystical/esoteric/magical/whatever you want to use as a catch-all term thought. Scouring through archives combined with things I already knew helped me find important works about western schools of thought, but barely anything on eastern. Any suggestions?

>>10889682
a lot of those are modern inventions, even the western based western ones
www.youtube.com/watch?v=M56-6XA3h2M
shit like whether to venerate dorje shugden even within the eastern traditions of eastern traditions too is also recent manufactured controversy
www.veoh.com/watch/v87604301kdft8Sn9

My sister says that buddhism is a system of philosophic thought and not really an organized religion. To what extent is she right or wrong? I know nothing about buddhism.

>>10889712
I think that everyone interested in the subject knows that Wicca is throughly modern system with neopagan dressing.

>>10889722
buddhism tries to forget right and wrong at times so you've probably already lost. send us pictures of her feet though.

>>10889723
The wiccans tend not to

>>10885196
You can also read the whole thing in about 10 minutes

>>10889731
They are wiccans, so clearly they are not interested enough in the subject.

>>10889793
Fair point, well made.

>>10889746
if you want to understand about 5% of it maybe. it would take a few days to understand the background, the context, and the meaning that is lost in translations, as well as all the metaphors.

>>10888957
Right. I’ve heard that tai chi temple style has been practiced for over 4000 years.

>>10889722
She's wrong on both counts. Buddhism is not 'a system' but many systems.

But one thing all Buddhism has in common is that it's (supposedly) designed to help people achieve spiritual realization. It has laity and it has clergy (the sangha). It's had thousands of years of scholarship and metaphysical discourse. It's not simply a set of rules for virtuous living (although it certainly has those), it requires active practice and faith in seemingly unprovable teachings. Sounds a lot like a religion to me

>>10886160
Damn, I don't have a reaction image saved for how retarded you sound.

>>10887127
Yeah, not like Buddhism came to China from India and then shaped Chinese philosophy for centuries.

>>10890399
>>10890399
You typed out 13 words without actually saying anything. Where did you learn this wizardry?

Have a bump

>>10888159
no they weren’t at all they were created probably 600-1000 years before they were codified in India and that’s a generous estimate, they don’t have the age that people think they do at all

The 4 books and five classics, especially the 4 books.

Dhammapada, Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita, Tao te Ching

>>10892461
the Dhammapada is soft skulled peasant wisdom, you need to read the Pali Canon and the Mahayana sutras or you are not grasping the philosophy behind the sayings. Its not the same thing as the Bible, and you will not understand the Upanishads if you don’t read the Vedas and Puranas

>>10886770
> daoist-virgin_vs_chad-confucian.jpg

Reading the four books (Great Learning, Doctrine of the Mean, Analects, Mencius) will give you a much better idea of Chinese philosophy as it was actually taught and practiced over the centuries than the Daodejing. They're also less full of metaphysics and woolly thinking.

If you must read the Daodejing, Want Bi's commentary is pretty much indispensable, which means you need the Lynn translation.

>>10892495
>>>10892461
>the Dhammapada is soft skulled peasant wisdom, you need to read the Pali Canon and the Mahayana sutras or you are not grasping the philosophy behind the sayings.

Either one of those by itself is way more than one human can read in a lifetime.

The Confucianism at least have a digestible canon. Indic thought may be good too, but there's too much of it to engage properly.

>>10892561
>They're also less full of metaphysics and woolly thinking
Zhuangzi > Confucius

>>10892596
Real Chinese hardly read Zhuangzi. They read the shit out of Confucius.

>>10886144
> Inapplicable Neechee quote.

No, friend, that wasn't what he was saying. Western philosophy revolves around metaphysics. Chinese philosophy revolves around ethics and politics. Thus "more practical and down to earth." There is nothing about living "according to nature." That's a GREEK delusion.

>>10886160
What did you read?

>>10892495
>you will not understand the Upanishads if you don’t read the Vedas and Puranas
This, but the Puranas are not needed in their entirety.

>>10892578
>but there's too much of it to engage properly.
Eh not really. If you know Sanskrit and the basics of Hindu philosophy, it's nothing difficult.

>>10892640
I'll take your word on Hindu thought, but the fact remains that no single person has ever read the entire Pali Canon, let alone the Mahayana sutras.

This is the best translation
Tao Te Ching _ Annotated & Explained - Derek Lin

>>10892608
And we all know modern Chinese are wellsprings of wisdom and clarity.

>>10885150

duuuude

>>10892670
I don't just mean modern Chinese, I mean Chinese throughout the ages. Anyway, OP asked for stuff that isn't "stoner armchair philosophy" like say the Zhuangzi.

>>10892659
Why is it the best?

>>10892659
i liked this. annotations are what make it better than most versions

>>10892712
>Zhuangzi
>stoner armchair philosophy
“When the heart is right, "for" and "against" are forgotten.”
― Zhuangzi, The way of Chuang Tzu
35 likes Like
“A frog in a well cannot discuss the ocean, because he is limited by the size of his well. A summer insect cannot discuss ice, because it knows only its own season. A narrow-minded scholar cannot discuss the Tao, because he is constrained by his teachings. Now you have come out of your banks and seen the Great Ocean. You now know your own inferiority, so it is now possible to discuss great principles with you.
井蛙不可以語於海者,拘於虛也;夏蟲不可以語於冰者,篤於時也;曲士不可以語於道者,束於教也。今爾出於崖涘,觀於大海,乃知爾醜,爾將可與語大理矣。”
― Zhuangzi, The Way of Chuang Tzu

>>10885150
if you go north long enough you'll start going south. if you go east you'll always go east.

>>10892712
>stoner armchair philosophy
''A frog in a well cannot discuss the ocean, because he is limited by the size of his well. A summer insect cannot discuss ice, because it knows only its own season. A narrow-minded scholar cannot discuss the Tao, because he is constrained by his teachings. Now you have come out of your banks and seen the Great Ocean. You now know your own inferiority, so it is now possible to discuss great principles with you.
井蛙不可以語於海者,拘於虛也;夏蟲不可以語於冰者,篤於時也;曲士不可以語於道者,束於教也。今爾出於崖涘,觀於大海,乃知爾醜,爾將可與語大理矣。”
― Zhuangzi, The Way of Chuang Tzu

The emperor of the Southern Sea was Lickety, the emperor of
the Northern Sea was Split, and the emperor of the Center was
Wonton. Lickety and Split often met each other in the land of
Wonton, and Wonton treated them very well. Wanting to repay
Wonton's kindness, Lickety and Split said, "All people have seven
holes for seeing, hearing, eating, and breathing. Wonton alone
lacks them. Let's try boring some holes for him." So every day
they bored one hole, and on the seventh day Wonton died.

>>10887123
>old greek

>>10892414
They wouldn't necessarily have to be recognizable 2000-3000 years ago for it to be true that they were around. I'm not sure if that sentence makes sense I'm fighting a dope nod right now.

Sun Zu, Art of war>>10885101

>>10885101
First off, learn to read classical chinese, it takes time but within a year or two of constant study you can pretty much fluently most texts.
You CANNOT expect to get into eastern philosophy by only relying on translations, most translators are retarded when it comes to nuance.
You have two options really, either start with the traditional method of educating yourself with chinese lit, the first three books every budding scholar typically read were:
>Three Character Classic, 三字经
>Hundred Family Surnames, 百家姓
>Thousand Character Classic, 千字文

From here, you can probably jump straight to comparatively simple texts like
>Confucian Analects, 论语 (translated name is retarded I know)
>Sunzi's Art of War, 孙子兵法
expect to take a LOT of time on these, at least a week to a month just copying hanzi and trying to fit your mind to classical chinese prose.

After this, you can maybe try to tackle
>Dao De Jing (Classic of Way and Virtue),道德经
Sidenote here: This book reads like Laozi was on fucking crack, his esoteric prose is where many of the memes about chinese lit comes from, like >>10886028
Much of it does not make sense at first, I find it entertaining because it's kinda like a puzzle, seeing how the hanzi fit into a philosophy, and seeing how you can apply it in your life, but many people understandably get pissed off, additionally like half of the hanzi used are not really used anymore, character variants that stopped being relevant two thousand years ago, so vocab won't be improved by much for reading this, except maybe other daoist texts.
1/?

>>10893133
Continuing on, you should also check out:
>Mozi, 墨子
Admittedly I haven't read it yet (kys myself), but I've read excerpts from it, I believe there were parallels between the white horse anecdote and greek philosophy, but it's not my speciality.

Let's get into poetry now, first off, you shouldn't expect to exclusively study classical chinese and perfectly understand vernacular, that idea is doubly true with studying chinese poetry, much of the vocabulary is obtuse/outdated/no longer in use, and often there are entire genres of poetry dedicated to using the most obtuse and obscure hanzi possible, but anyhow:
>Shijing, 诗经
imo very very good, poetry form is very different from english though, you'll notice that they often make poems from minor alterations of single lines, for example from a poem I memorized from the Shijing (Xi You Changchu, 隰有苌)
隰有苌楚 猗傩其枝
夭之沃沃 乐子之无知
隰有苌楚 猗傩其华
夭之沃沃 乐子之无家
隰有苌楚 猗傩其实
夭之沃沃 乐子之无室
>In the swamp lies the Changchu (Carambola), Oh how rich are it's branches!
>Young and fertile, happy is he without knowledge
>In the swamp lies the Changchu (Carambola), Oh how rich are it's flowers!
>Young and fertile, happy is he without family
>In the swamp lies the Changchu (Carambola), Oh how rich are it's fruits!
>Young and fertile, happy is he without home
You can see what I was saying about poetry structure from that excerpt, honestly it's quite different from english poetry, and I often incorporate forms like these or imagery from ancient poems into my own work, I rather like it.
Personally, I think this poem takes on more of a daoist theme, comparing a (presumably) lonely tree in a swamp, who has still managed to appear great, to the ideal man who can exist without others and still achieve great things for himself (or perhaps that man benefits without society)
Anyhow, most poems within the shijing vary from praising emperors, talking about ideal politics to just simple family life, it's pretty cool
2/?

>>10892718
>>10892729
Redpines translation is also good. download these two or a few other translations and compare them with each other on the chapters you have trouble on.

>>10893133
Why arent translations good enough if you dont want to study chinese for 2 years?
Is chinese philosophy better than greek or hindu philosophy?

>>10893378
Some things and concepts just aren't as easily expressed in translations.
Additionally, texts often have particular prose or nuances that also convey significant meaning, that translators just don't pick up on, getting into chinese philosophy isn't going to be easy mate, it's gonna take a LONG ass time.
There's a reason scholars were so highly valued in Chinese society, being well-read on the Confucian classics could take years of practice (although to be fear, that did include memorization).

>>10893485
You can say that about many languages though. Many works are considered untranslatable in various languages.

>>10892779

fuckin fire

>>10885150
>>10892778

>>10886096
i love this picture so much

>>10885101
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Books_and_Five_Classics

>>10886028
that was some flowers from Algernon Charlie before his surgery dumb post, nigga

>>10893207
How do you recommend I study Chinese? I’ve been studying mandarin for a few months now as one of my good friends in uni is from Beijing and I am going to visit in the summer. So far I’ve been practicing characters from a list of the 1000 most common and trying to learn grammar through his explanations. It helps that I am a linguistics student I guess. I would like to be able to read the Shijing as that poem you posted is exceptionally interesting to me.

>>10885150
i can't handle this anymore /lit/
this board is too smart for me

>>10896340
If you want to read the 诗经 (Shijing) or any other classical chinese work (although especially true for eariler poetry) just learning the 1000 most common characters won't cut it.
Buy a copy of the Shijing in simplified text, or access it here: https://ctext.org/book-of-poetry
As I said before, the characters used within classical works like these aren't commonly used anymore, so your only real option is to get your copy of the Shijing, download Pleco (App) and just start reading, translating hanzi you don't know (almost every one) and comparing translations.
Basically pleco every hanzi you don't know, write it down a couple times, and keep going back to it.
Knowing vernacular won't help you here, but with time you'll eventually get a feel for poetry, it takes lots of time and effort though.

>>10892778
obviously dumbfuck, there's no east pole

>>10893207
Moving on, as you get into later poetry, form becomes much more fluid and less rigid, for example, a poem from one of the great Tang poets Li Bai 李白:
床前明月光
疑是地上霜
举头望明月
低头思故乡
>At my bed lies the bright moon's light
>I suspect that above ground lies frost
>I raise my head to look at the bright moon
>I lower my head to think of home
As you can see, much more fluid then poems in the Shijing, but you can still clearly see a form in duality between couplets (moon and ground, future and past etc), still not very common in english poems.

Also, you should check out Cao Cao's poems, pretty good.
From this point on, I don't know much about later poetry but I have read some vernacular works from around the Ming, might talk about those
3/?

>>10896768
Thank you for responding. Are you formally schooled in the classics or has it been self taught? I think it would be very helpful if i could receive more chinese learning advice from you as you are clearly passionate and knowledgeable about what i am interested in.

>>10886028
In the Great Beginning, there was nonbeing; there was no being, no name. Out of it arose One; there was One, but it had no form. Things got hold of it and came to life, and it was called Virtue. Before things had forms, they had their allotments; these were of many kinds, but not cut off from one another, and they were called fates. Out of the flow and flux, things were born, and as they grew they developed distinctive shapes; these were called forms. The forms and bodies held within them spirits, each with its own characteristics and limitations, and this was called the inborn nature. If the nature is trained, you may return to Virtue, and Virtue at its highest peak is identical with the Beginning. Being identical, you will be empty; being empty, you will be great. You may join in the cheeping and chirping and, when you have joined in the cheeping and chirping, you may join with Heaven and earth. Your joining is wild and confused, as though you were stupid, as though you were demented. This is called Dark Virtue. Rude and unwitting, you take part in the Great Submission.

>>10886028
In the south there was an eccentric named Huang Liao who asked why Heaven and earth do not collapse and crumble, or what makes the wind and rain, the thunder and lightning. Hui Shih, undaunted, undertook to answer him; without stopping to think, he began to reply, touching upon every one of the ten thousand things in his peroration, expounding on and on without stop in multitudes of words that never ended. But still it was not enough, and so he began to add on his astonishing assertions. Whatever contradicted other men's views he declared to be the truth, hoping to win a reputation for outwitting others. This was why he never got along with ordinary people. Weak in inner virtue, strong in his concern for external things, he walked a road that was crooked indeed! If we examine Hui Shih's accomplishments from the point of view of the Way of Heaven and earth, they seem like the exertions of a mosquito or a gnat - of what use are they to other things? True, he still deserves to be regarded as the founder of one school, though I say, if he had only shown greater respect for the Way, he would have come nearer being right. Hui Shih, however, could not seem to find any tranquillity for himself in such an approach. Instead he went on tirelessly separating and analyzing the ten thousand things, and in the end was known only for his skill in exposition. What a pity - that Hui Shih abused and dissipated his talents without ever really achieving anything! Chasing after the ten thousand things, never turning back, he was like one who tries to shout an echo into silence or to prove that form can outrun shadow. How sad!

>>10896801
Alright so getting into around Ming era vernacular, you see a literary culture beginning to resemble something like Europe in the 18th century, meaning lots of different types of genres, they had basically your Chinese equivalent of a soap opera in the form of written dramas, fiction about ghosts/spirits, and even something like criminal capers (Judge Dee for instance).
The majority of this shit has not been translated, imo most people don't really understand that current translated Chinese works are really just the tip of the iceberg, there is an INCREDIBLE amount of literature that is basically just floating around, perhaps even forgotten in attics/libraries around the world, imagine what we could find from this!
Anyhow, for vernacular works I'll basically talk about the four great classics, since those are those popular and currently relevant.
>Journey to the west, 西游记
The most popular classic, and IMO the most overrated. It basically follows the formula of the monk doing stupid shit and monkey king saving his ass, lmao lesson learned amirite?
2nd easiest to read though, though there's better shit imo.
>Water Margin, 水浒传
2nd favorite, easiest to read, A collection of stories about 108 people during the Song dynasty who basically get fucked by the government and are forced to become outlaws.
And a bunch of shit happens in between, I really like this one primarily because I can see so many parallels between modernity and this, about people becoming alienated from society and seeking others to reform and rebel against the establishment. Also, the vernacular is pretty easy, in comparison to other works.
>Romance of the three kingdoms,三国演义
Novel about strategies and people finding different ways to screw each other over. It's said to include every type of strategem and tactic. It's written in some weird classical chinese prose, so basically one of the only major literary works in post-early medieval China where reading classical works might actually help you.
>Dream of the Red Chamber, 红楼梦
Don't know much about this one, other than it being like a Qing dynasty soap opera, there's definitely more to it, but not that I know

I started reading Water Margin at around a year and a half of learning Chinese, so you could maybe start earlier, but reading even ONE of these novels is a significant time investment.
With Water Margin specifically, I understood around 50-70% percent of what I read at first (except for the first two chapters which are really hard) and it took me about 15-25 mins to get through a single page of text, I read around 2-3 pages every night before bed, and even then it took me a good majority of the year to finish reading it, reading chinese is really fucking exhausting, but IMO it's really fucking pleasurable to read something in Chinese and then realize, you perfectly understand it, and you only have to search up around 5 of the hanzi on a page, feels really fucking good.

>>10896879
Sure, if you want any advice ask away, I'm basically self-taught from texts on ctext.org, that and lots of time reflecting on what I've read.
Also, if you happen to become competent at Chinese, you should definitely contribute to ctext.

>>10896937
are you a dilettante literati? you talk like one

>>10896961
I suppose you could call me one, I admit my knowledge of Chinese literature really is comparison to what it could be, and I'm rather new myself, how do I talk like one though?

>>10896989
I meant you seem to be infatuated with translation, transliteration, etymology and history and don’t seem to give a fuck about the philosophy of any of the texts you translate. You replied in the affirmative to the DFW post which was insipid and incorrect. You said Daodejing sounded like someone on crack, which is fucking retarded. I just get the sense you’re sort of an academic bug who likes flipping signs over into other codes and that’s your thing, art museum docent

>>10897034
>you said Daodejing sounded like someone on crack
Yeah, I do put alot of emphasis on prose, but how is the above statement retarded?
I assume by DFW post you mean >>10886028
I didn't reply in the affirmative, most Chinese works are actually pretty practically written, but some texts are actually written like that, and it's something that is especially present in the DDJ.

Have you read the Chinese version of the DDJ? When you compare it to other texts of around the same time, you can obviously see that's it has a heavy use of metaphors, difficult to understand lines in comparison, written on crack is perhaps an exaggeration, but the basic sentiment even among native Chinese is "what the fuck is this dude saying). There's a reason why it has a million commentaries

You're definitely right about my interest in transliteration, etymology, etc, but I focused more on that than philosophy primarily because that's more of a personal thing, something people should reason for themselves rather than just me coming out and saying it, I just found it helpful to explain nuances like that as it's something I struggled with, and it's intimately tied with meaning and interpretation.