/lit/ - Literature

>>10842665
Anything that helps bury
> le postmodernism
is fine by me.

Its great.

>>10842677
I see someone who didn't make his bed this morning

>>10842665
While Peterson is worth reading, you should read Jung and Baudrillard beforehand

>>10842722
I've read a lot of Jung, and I'm not really interested in reading some French man. I'd rather read what I want to read instead of reading everything before hand.

>>10842732
bait.

>>10842749
Not really, but I'd like that PDF

>>10842732
At least read Baudrillard's Wikipedia page and about Simulation and Simulacra as it helps explains why Peterson's ideas are so maligned in the era of hyperreality.

>>10842665
Yeah Maps of Meaning is great my friend.

I’ve been aware for a while now that a lot of people hate this guy and I finally watched a few interviews and he doesn’t seem that crazy. What’s the hate? Is it just because he refuses to use weird pronouns?

>>10842665
Haven't read it.. about a year ago I watched all his maps of meaning stuff, then more recently the biblical lectures. It is pretty hard to argue his conclusions about the life lessons that can be derived from all these old stories, I felt inspired at the time.
Now, idk, I don't hate the guy like some people here do... at least he is spreading some ideas single-handedly that the entire new-right hasn't been capable of so far. The stodgy traditionalism is not really for me, though I can see how it is useful for a lot of people/
There are probably better books for self help, or good supplements to 12 rules, pic related.

It's easy to hate Peterson based on the circle jerking cunts that now constitute his fanbase but the book really isn't bad, nothing groundbreaking but it was an interesting enough read for me personally.

But honestly one glance into the community surrounding him on the net and it seems to be just a bunch of cunts who want to fit into a group unironically posting pictures of their clean rooms memeing about lobsters.

>>10842791
well its more because people attack the right by attacking him since he is an advocate of freedom of speech. Basically any friend of right ringers is an enemy of the left regardless of how sensible he truly is.

>>10842791
His science is "racist, and sexist", which is the greatest crime, especially if you have a large audience - he is an existential threat to leftist domination of thought, or so that is how they seem to see him.

It's basically a condensed pic related with some neuroscience and jungian psychodynamic thrown in.

>>10842797
I have a hard time taking the man seriously as all the people I've met that've talked about him are either narcissist or self-hating pseudo-intellectuals.

I was thinking about picking up the book since I've been struggling with getting out of bed, being productive, and avoiding simple pleasures. Do you think this might be an okay entry-point for change?

>>10842819
It's a good book with fun tangents to explore.

>>10842819
Like >>10842827 said it is honestly a decent book and yes it is a self-help book so there is a chance you might find some guidance or motivation from it.
Just a shame that his followers have such little self-awareness they cant see the hypocrisy in making someone like JBP a god figure. I see people making religiously inspired fan art of him and then making that their wallpaper on their phone.

>>10842869
I like to pretend that the ones who do it do it ironically. The rest are sheep.

>>10842797
Yeah this. The book itself isn't bad. It reads nice and easy too.

>>10842819
it's only an entry point for change if you're actually willing to make a change and realize it won't be easy.

better than your life now though probably

>>10842869
This reminds me of Nietzsche but Peterson doesn't seem to mind being a Christ figure.

>>10842899
It's hard to tell really because often he talks about not worshipping ideologies and thinking of them as perfect and being willing to be corrected etc...
But at the same time, he will happily sign fan art of him being depicted as a perfect golden god I'm not sure if he is just too nice or too flattered in person to put a person down for such things or he really doesn't mind.

>>10842665
is Petes literally a Christ-like figure?

>>10842665
>I really hate this guy,

give me one good reason that doesn't boil down to the fact that he happens to not be a leftist.

>>10842665
My own personal jesus

>>10842761
Brainlet here, can someone please explain Baudrillard to me? I can't make shit of his wikipedia articles.

>>10842777
This. 12 rules is more like... fucking self help book. That part when he goes on about
>hurr lets wash dish good boy
>durr get coffeebu deserve good boy
made me roll my eyes. But then again, it's an ok introduction to maps of meaning. Also, he's got a short essay on his website that he wrote for some encyclopedia that's also good.

>>10843161
1. How do you even sum up Maps?
2. The psychology of children doing basic tasks is both amusing and informative

>>10843179
1. It's an introduction as in makes you want to read it. Not as in shortened condensed version.
2. I didnt mean that part. I meant the how to treat yourself part.

>>10842992
>mannerisms
>twitter behaviour
>uh thats it
I fucking mean it he should quit that hellhole.

>>10843240
Out of the 3 things I like about him, his twitter shitposting is easily the best part. Savage motherfucker with just enough lack of awareness to make it tasty.

>>10843144
I'm not really an authority on this and I'm sure I'll be corrected, but basically, as cultures modernize, symbols traditionally employed to represent a meaningful reality begin to take a life of their own until the symbol becomes the "meaningful reality."

Compare a living frog to a renaissance painting of a frog to a frog shaped bath toy to Pepe the Frog.

Any links to his ebooks?

>>10843285
Maps of meaning is on his website as a pdf.
12 Rules is probably >>>/t/

>>10843247
What're the other two?

>>10843341
How he pronounces everything all canadian and his unerring discipline with regard to his published research.

>>10843350
Yeah his accent is cool.
>unerring
Eeeeeeeh. It's just a question of time before he messes something up. Also, the endless interviews don't help either, where he can be guided to topics he's no expert on (see: Vice, that Frozen is propaganda stuff, or when they showed him pictures of Pepe etc)

Read it three times.

This is his list of reccomended books. Gaze upon it and weep.

>>10842791
People on the left hate him because he's a traditionally-minded guy, a classical liberal, who refuses to use government-compelled gender neutral pronouns to address trans people. They also just hate him because he's a white male who advocates for freedom of speech and free expression, and speaks out for individualism instead of identity politics.

People on the (far) right hate him because he continuously bashes ethnonationalism (right wing identity politics) without ever actually debating the issue with people who have offered to debate him (Richard Spencer, Millennial Woes, etc.) Meanwhile Peterson routinely calls people who refuse to debate him cowards, so he's a bit of a hypocrite there. Also it is obvious that he knows a lot of stuff about race and IQ and certain influential...religious...minorities, but refuses to say anything with any weight on these subjects, despite going on and on and on about "tell the truth! no matter what!"

>>10843653
Why are those bad books? Reading any of those would expand your mind and your thinking. This is /b/ tier 'stop liking what I don't like!' Knowledge is knowledge and that list of books is perfectly reasonable.

>>10843644
Damn senpai that's like 36 rules

>>10843653
The Old Man and the Sea is literally the best book on that list. And it is the only reason I actually respect any ounce of him.

>>10843676
They're 95% entry level highschool books. Not necessarily bad, but not that great either. it's like he googled most read books by people age 16-20 and made a list of them.

>>10843683
kek not only this, but the only philosophy he reccomends is nietzche, reccomending only him is a very obvious sign of pleb

>>10842804
>his science
lol

>>10843691
>only philosophy he recommends is Nietzsche
This is typical of someone who brags about their IQ

>>10843691
So far as I can surmise his preoccupation with Neechuh is on the psychological level, being that he Peterson is a psychologist, because Nietzsche was the philosopher to predict the tens of millions of deaths in the 20th century that would occur from people trying and failing to create their own values outside of religiosity. So for Peterson he's a bit of a prophet for lack of a less sensational word, and especially within Peterson's sphere of influence (his course study and book MoM are both to do with how people come to have the values they do) he is the paramount philosopher to take into consideration. Also I would figure since he studies Jung and Jung cites Nietzsche a lot too, it's could've even just been his breadth (or lack) of exposure.

>>10843644
>all that Viz Media on the shelf above

Fuck Peterson show us your manga collection, friendo

Seen him on JRE; powerful- don't know about the self help path. Stick 2 philosophy, Peterson.

>>10843653
>The will to power
Anglos

>>10843653
>Emily is his favourite Brontë

Fuck the intro to alt-right retardation shenanigans - what an absolute faggot.

>>10843653
>Stendhal
>bad

okay, fag.

>>10843653
fucking retard

>>10842665

Currently reading.

>>10843691
>but the only philosophy he reccomends is nietzche, reccomending only him is a very obvious sign of pleb
Or maybe the entire platform of Peterson is mass appeal and trying to motivate them into higher learning? Nietzche isn't very hard to understand and is extremely important in terms of influence on modern thought.

Why wouldn't Peterson only recommend Nietzche? I've heard him mention others like Kierkegaard and Hegel, but if people were to start with something it ought to be Nietzche

>>10843653
Who exactly are these books being recommended to? People who don't read? Do we really need Peterson to "recommend" Hemingway, Orwell, Dostoevsky, etc? These authors are all widely known and probably encountered in high school. Nothing wrong with the books but the only thing that lends this list a shred of uniqueness is the inclusion of a few hardboiled novels (and even then they are literally the three most well known novels in the hardboiled detective idiom). Recommending Nietzsche in a vacuum without other philosophers is also a complete joke. This list is so basic and safe that it genuinely triggers me.

>>10844766
>Nietzche isn't very hard to understand
>if people were to start with something it ought to be Nietzche
Is this supposed to be bait? Everyone always wants to start with N bc edgy nihilist meme and he is probably one of the worst places to start re philosophy. If you think he is "easy to understand" I doubt you understand him.

Postmodernism literally appeals to intellectually shallow looking for easy solutions. It's a swamp

>>10844766
>Nietzche isn't very hard to understand
This is how you end up with a legion of drooling american retards repeating "muh shlave morality" ad nauseam. This is how the Ayn Rands are created.

>>10844797
>If you think he is "easy to understand" I doubt you understand him.
I like you. Still, N is better than the other memes like Stirner or Derrida

>>10842665
i like watching videos of smart people explaining things to me im a neet so i have lots of free time and peterson talks about people like me so i like him

>>10843814

This and everyone here is too much of a brainlet to understand it.

>>10844829
these NEETs they are the only of their flock who shall be saved in the days of judgement

>>10844797
>Everyone always wants to start with N bc edgy nihilist meme and he is probably one of the worst places to start re philosophy. If you think he is "easy to understand" I doubt you understand him.
Yes, Nietzche is easy compared to other big news authors. Doesn't mean he is objectively easy but hey I guess you and
>>10844801
We're too stupid to figure out that I wasn't saying Nietzche was objectively easy, just easier for people who don't know much about philosophy trying to carve their way into higher learning.

>>10844797
>This list is so basic and safe that it genuinely triggers me.
Yeah because ITS SUPPOSED TO BE BASIC YOU ELITIST TWAT , the entire reason Peterson is popular is because he is trying to popularize higher learning, so people who aren't well read can make steps to becoming well read.

Fuck off you smarmy cunt

>>10844801
>Ayn Rand was a Russian Jew who immigrated to the US
>Implying Americans don't understand Nietzche
Fucks sake, maybe go to /his/?

>>10842797
I haven’t seen anything obnoxious from his fan base... maybe a couple of over the top defences of some criticisms of him. I feel like it’s cool to shit on him as if he’s intellectually baron without actually criticising anything he’s said or argued for specifically. The people who do that are the most irritating in my mind. It’s the problem with the whole brainlet meme and similar “look at this guy” responses to anything thought out on 4chan. It’s plain begging the question.

>>10844997
>Fuck elitists!!!!!! Muh common man!!!!
>Recommends Nietzsche
>>10844993
>just easier for people who don't know much about philosophy
nope
>>10845002
>Ayn Rand was a Russian Jew who immigrated to the US
Nice reading comprehension
>Implying Americans don't understand Nietzche
They don't. Muh shlaveh mooralitee

>>10845026
>Thinking Nietzche is hard
>Thinking Nietzche was an elitist
>Anti-American /lit/ posting because hurr Durr American are dumb ROFL!!1!
Graduate anytime plz

>>10845033
>Nietzsche wasn't an elitist
Case in point, Americans are dumb.

>>10843653

there is literally nothing wrong with this list

>>10845036
>Nietzche was an elitist because he was anti-egalitarian
>as if the point of Nietzche wasn't a call for the masses and the elite among them to grow beyond the intellectual heritage that Christianity had created in Europe and strive for higher morality
>Which memerson is trying to initiate by stimulating higher learning among the masses
Nietzche' advocacy of aristocratic ideals being pursued by others wasn't directed towards noblemen you pleb lol.

>>10845036
You missed literally the whole point of Beyond Good and Evil + Geneology of Morals

>>10845054
It took you 8 minutes to churn out this garbage post? Go reread Nietzsche and try to understand the broader context of what he said instead of being a brainlet American who takes everything at face value and please improve your reading comprehension skills, they're severely lacking.

>But to reveal my entire heart to you, my friends: if there were gods, how could I stand not to be a god! Therefore there are no gods

>>10845073
It tool you ten minutes to espouse this garbage?
>I'm the one taking things at face value
Oh come on now, you can't be serious? You're the one calling Nietzche an elitist and *I'm* the one taking what he says at face value? Well it's good to know Eurofags can be just as stupid as people over here
>Allow me to give you a quote with no context
Lmao, how about you read something for once instead of circlejerk on a leddit philosophy channel?

>>10845073
Do you think Nietzche is a nihilist as well Mr Reddit?

>>10842791
>leftists hate him! click here to find out why

desu he is one of the greater minds of the current year. but there have been many greater than him and I'm looking forward to see the greater minds that will emerge in the future

>>10842665
> I really hate this guy
>le postmodernism

You aren't intelligent enough to understand what he is saying anyway. Go listen to another easily digestible theory regurgitated to you by your equally idiotic sociology " professor ".

>>10842791
Zizeks article diagnosed the situation rather well if you don't read it as an attempted challenge to peterson.

>>10845086
>he is one of the greater minds of the current year.
>this is what peterson fanboys actually believe

>>10842791
he's a pseud, thats all.
ignore the buttblasted queer and nazi ideologues.

>>10844997
>>10845033
>>10845054
>>10845078
>>10845083

Peterson's writing is useful to read as an exercise in evaluating the standard of your own education by seeing how well you are able to identify his numerous errors.

>>10843667
This bugs me the most about Peterson. I unironically think he's great, but the fact that he won't even talk with someone like Richard Spencer while continuing to denounce any and all forms of collectivism is BS.

The family is a collective unit, Peterson surely isn't against the family acting, as a whole, in their best interests is he?

>>10843653
I see nothing wrong with the list. It resembles the required reading stuff I had to read in high school. Nothing special, or extraordinarily enlightening, Rather, a bit plebeian and average, at best. Somehow, I was expecting much more from the alt-righ,t rock star, philosopher king.

>>10842665
read this
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellectual-we-deserve

>>10843269
So like how manga/anime characters get more and more degenerate (moe, tsudere...) with each generation using the previous one as reference instead of doing it like in the good old times and try to mimic real inter-human relationships and people.

But what does this have to do with Peterson being maligned? Because he wants to go back?

>>10847253
> Nathan 'Soy' Robinson

>>10847289
>takes BrainSoyPlus
>calls others soy boys

>>10846655
Collectivism in family is a big part of why black communities are such a mess. It good for families to stick together, but not to blindly do so to the point where it destroys the community around them.

>>10844714
Should I read Wurthering Heights before or after Jane Eyre?

>>10842791
He's a soft fascist piece of shit who believes in "human nature" and neuronormativity.
At first he may seem like a reasonable man who just want young people to be mentally healthier but then you realize that neuronormativity is bullshit and nobody is more healthier than anybody else.
>>10842804
>His science
Psychology is a pseudo-science. You know that, right?

>>10847253
This is the best counterarticle sofar. James Lindsay wrote a good one, too.

>>10847253
>we-deserve
Come on. That's buzfeed tier.

>>10847795
What's good about that article? It's just someone who doesn't like Peterson, for some reason.
Wow, saying that statements in a self-help book are truisms or trivial... that's no argument. Of course, a motivational text will be some straight forward statements that you mostly know already - nothing wrong with composing such a text like that. Peterson is also pop-science to some extent, as in he goes on tangents discussing biological research findings and such. And then he goes to quote the bible and makes conclusions and guidelines like any preacher. Nothing wrong with that.

Why is it even so mysterious that Peteron is likes? To me it just seems that right-winged ideology has its perks and Peterson is somebody you can accept even when having gone through left-winged brainwashing all you live. It's literally right-light. The conservative parts. Father figure meme.

Here's an actual takedown that pins down his hypocrisy/weakness to a point:

https://youtu.be/AwXAB6cICG0

>>10842665
I've read it and he fails to realize the true meaning of Deleuze's body without organs at page 14. Stopped reading there.

>>10847885
No youre right. Fedoralord has to wait for me tho. Its 2 in the morning here

>>10847910
same, 1:55, Vienna calling

>>10843814
This is a very weird conclusion to draw from Nietzsche and for that reason alone people should be wary of JBP

Cranky white, western, straight male obscure intellectual turned celebrity by the left and right both misunderstanding him. Essays are well written but do yourself a favor and read something actually outside your worldview.

>>10848074
>outside your worldview
ok anon, read Decline of the West and Genealogy of Morals for me

>>10847253
>greentext quote
>snarky response
>mfw I realize I am reading a 4chan post masquerading as professional journalism

>>10842665
Yes, got it as a gift. Started with chapter 11
>Dont bother kids riding skateboards
I can't condense it for you, but I took away some nuggets like
>males need danger growing up in order to answer the question "do i have what it takes?"
>men and women are different, bucko
>strong and dangerous men tend to be safe because in their gaining strength and the ablility to destory, have also gained the discipline to control it.
>weak men are far more dangerous, especially when in a position of authority

The little I've read and the YT videos I've watched of him, and the few lectures on the Bible I've seen, I would definitely recommend him. If nothing else, the dude has definitely tapped into what many many young (and grown) men need desperately to hear, whether they agree or not.

>>10842800
failed b8
>>10845287
this. Nobody like him because he is a pseud. Plebas like him because LE EDGY or hate him because LE RACIST. He is just a retarded pseud.

>>10844797
>These authors are all widely known and probably encountered in high school
Kek, what fucking high school did you go to? In Anglo countries we do not cover those types of books. We did Animal farm, and that's about it.
The other books we did were all just shitty lesser-known fiction from one hit wonder authors

>>10847885
fuck the e celeb mutt in the video. He defends objective utilitarism...

>>10842791
ignore everyone talking about amerishit politics. that's the only part he's not pseuding
his definition of postmodernism is wrong. that's like getting "who wrote moby dick?" wrong on a /lit/ board, especially one with any interest in philosophy or art.
the people he's fighting aren't postmodernists, they're SJWs and they could not read a postmodernists intelligently if their life literally depended on it. he just thinks postmodernism sounds fancy and that nobody will call on him on that shit.
second up on this: he's mainly focused on jung, and jung is considered to have beat heidegger to the punch on inventing postmodernism's idea of the self. think about how fired a professor should get for that before they acquire tenure, and you'll see why the system accepts SJWs bullshit also.

those are the main concerns if you want to learn about jung or postmodernism- he's literally as ignorant on those subjects as an SJW who thinks history needs to be renamed herstory so the female latin word historia, can stop raping her with male oppression.

>>10848102
yeah right, a man like Stalin is safer to be around than a Jeb Bush. he's like a book of sayings masquerading as philosophy.

>>10848102
you are taking this to the extreme, I'm not sure what to call that kind of logical fallacy, but I'm sure it is one.

have you even read the book? Something tells me you haven't.

It's kind of ironic how the reason none of the criticism against Peterson hold is because nobody engage with him within his psychological meta-language. It really shows how brainlet Derridafags are. You give them a map and they get even more lost than before.

>>10842665
Don't bother.

>>10842665
If you’re looking for life advice just read the Bible. He references it a lot because, unsurprisingly, it has all the lessons necessary for someone to develop into a proper man.

>>10843644
>Halliday on the back
pleb

>>10842796
that was such a boring book. Ended up selling it before I finished it all

>>10848488
absolutely true and checked

Peterson is too meek and liberal to be interesting

>>10848445
>nobody engage with him within his psychological meta-language
you mean nobody wants to take his ridiculous bullshit at face value and prefer to actually, you know, see if it's true

>>10848470
What a cool pic desu

>>10847885
Obviously I would choose to support Peterson over that guy because Peterson's got a better hairline.

>>10848470
his lined face awaiting spurts of hot young cum from a boy named sue

>>10842791
he's a free speech advocate and a certain segment of the political left believes that free speech is code for racist, sexist, homophobic, and transphobic speech.

>>10843653
How many people can honestly say that they've even read half of these books?

>>10842665
read chapter 10, it was lovely. not sure why you hate him, he's a critical and mostly objective thinker that is trying to make this world a better place. Evidence of that is found in his many debates, lectures, and interviews

>>10845263
>Zizeks article diagnosed the situation rather well
Zizek article was buttblasted libel

>>10848179
You write like a simpleton lol

>>10848829
>Jungian babble
>Objective

>>10848839
how is he not objective?

>>10848776
>he's a free speech advocate
who wanted to make a software that would analyze courses for "postmodernism", very free speechy, not at all dystopian

>>10848933
it should be noted that physiognomy AI, pre-crime AI, wrong think algos and every other kind of evil government and corporate practice will be turned into kyber weapons in the next 50 years. you basically will finally have to pay for being an ignorant cow and not understanding what fights were worth wasting time on

>>10842819
>I was thinking about picking up the book since I've been struggling with getting out of bed

Nothing against Peterson (I haven't read his works and have only read a few interviews with him in which he seems relatively reasonable), but you should really just pick up Aurelius' Meditations, which explicitly address the 'struggle to get out of bed.'

>>10848933
i didn't know that. my only real exposure to peterson is his retarded /ourguy/ fans on 4chan.

>>10848980
well he truly is /theirguy/
in his regular job of helping addicts with their problems or whatever he's apparently OK
the moment he steps out of that into politics, sociology, culture etc. he turns into a flat out retard

He's gotten me interested in Jung. Where should I start with Carl Jung?

>>10849040
With Freud

>>10842809
not even remotely close.

>>10843678
under rated post

the only reason this guy is known is because the MAGA crowd needs someone passably intellectual to represent their views and he was the best they could find

now they inflate his boring opinions as some kind of philosophy or w/e

>>10849040

I like The Undiscovered Self.

>>10849102

have you visited /pol/ lately? there are way more anti-peterson shitposts there than here.

>>10843644
Why would you buy it three times?

I can understand having multiples of some books. One's a nice hardback that you picked up, the other's a beat up paperback that you throw in your bag when you go camping or something.
But this clearly isn't the case.

He butchered Jung for his own popularity. Now everyone will hate/like Jung for all the wrong reasons

>>10849040
Abandon whatever you think you know about Jung and read Man and his symbols and get a dream diary

>>10847253
very surprised by the harris quotation. most sensible thing i've ever seen from him.
>>10848097
title and header are entirely apropos

>>10848606
>falling for the truth meme
You're not going to make it.

>>10847253
>That Orwell portion
Holy shit if that is really true, Peterson is truly a retard.

>>10849420
That was great. If we play our cards right Peterson really has no way of winning. Whenever he interprets a text in his own way we must call him a brainlet for not understanding the author but if he talks about anything related to authorial intent or objective truth we must call him a brainlet for not understanding potmodernism. I think this is the best way to deal with him. If you make the brainlets who follow him to realize how dumb he is he will lose all his influence over them. Alt-righters are tribal people. If you show one of their leaders as weak they will ditch him.

Didn't he throw a hissyfit when a 9/11 truther tried talking to him? So much for free speech.

>>10847667
It's funny, I can't tell if you're trolling or you're serious.
There are actual morons out there who think that memey classical liberal is a "soft fascist".
And there are also morons who believe in blank-slate theories of human beings.
AND there are people who believe schizophrenics aren't really mentally ill.
But all 3 things together? Jesus christ, you're the living proof of poe's law.

>>10849472
transparent, but better than the usual dreck

>>10849472
Absolutely. Nobody wants to be associated with someone who's deemed pathetic. It's like with the 9/11 truthers back then. When people engaged with them in good faith and tried to explain them why they were wrong they were only being legitimized but when we started mocking them they suddenly disappeared. Ridiculing someone is an incredible powerful tool and we shouldn't be so scared of using it if it's for a good cause.

>>10847253

>One person said that when he came across a physical copy of Peterson’s first book, “I wanted to hold it in my hands and contemplate its significance for a few minutes, as if it was one of Shakespeare’s pens or a Gutenberg Bible.”

>>10849472
>Alt-righters are tribal people. If you show one of their leaders
>Peterson
>alt right
If I had a penny for every single time someone on the left complained about someone on the right improperly using "socialist" or "marxist" and then turned around to hilariously mischaracterize people on the right, I'd be a trillionaire.

>>10842665
I’m about halfway through and dropped it, it is essentially a compilation of his lectures for the newly sorted. Shit that you would tell some /r9k/ teir teenager or 40-year-old joe Rohan subscriber. That’s the demographic that would consider it profound. I enjoy it, but it’s not a piece of art nor something integral to live ones life by. Simply advice.

>>10849543
Even if he's not technically an alt-righter he still is in the wrong side of history.

>>10849589
False flagging is even more stupid than what that guy did.

>>10843644
>>>/sci/

stem spergs don't belong on /lit/

>>10845845
this desu

>>10849589
>wrong side of history

Is there a more totalitarian phrase than this?

>>10842791
I don’t hate him, but he seems to be full of himself and talks like some profound genius, but at the end of the day he isn’t saying anything new, just parroting how 90% of people feel deep down.

>>10848445
Peterson never actually argued with anyone smarter than 89IQ.
Guys from Zero Books tried to invite him to podcast but he didnt even refuse, just ignored them.
He prefers his safe spaces, brainlet youtubers and retarded journalists.

>>10847885
Good video. Clearly articulated the flaws in Peterson's reasoning while presenting evidence that Peterson actually said what the video criticizes, all while being respectful and without resorting to attacking his character.

>>10849589
What brainlet thing to say. The only people that say this are low IQ low IQ liberals.

The only sides of history that exist are winning and losing, alive and dead.

>>10847885
>cara will never hold you like that
im not crying its just raining

>>10849479
>memey classical liberal
Those people that justified British imperialism because muh hegemony and justified states atrocities against the democracy because long live Britain? Stop being a brainlet.

I know this won't get any replies from Peterson's drones but I still have to ask. Why hasn't Memerson replied to Zizek accepting his challenge? Is he going to debate Zizek or not?

>>10849921
debates are stupid

>>10847253
>And now and then you know you read in the newspaper about someone who’s, you know, being pushed a little bit too far on some day that they’re unemployed and hungover and you know their relationship is just broken up and they do something absolutely brutal to their child and you think well “how could anyone do that” it’s like there’s a lot of history of terrible interactions between the mother and the child or the father and the child before something like that happens. So you know if you want to protect your child against the beast that’s inside you you might want to teach them to treat you with some respect so that you’re much more likely to be a civilized human being around them.

Jordan Peterson.

Why is violence always around the corner for this guy? Like that video of him talking about not being able to punch a woman (inb4 JoPete fags tell me that's not what he really meant, as if you can pin this fucker down). What did he fucking see growing up? Like, I've seen some shit and didn't turn out with a worldview like that.

>>10849923
Then why does Memerson go to news and youtube intellectuals for debate? Is this really the best you can come up with or are you just false flagging?

>>10849924
Families are often dysfunctional long before any violence occurs.
A man cannot hit a woman without facing serious repercussions that the woman would not face should she strike the man.
Violence is the human condition, regardless of whether or not you are too sensitive to discuss it.

>>10845020
Just search "Jordan Peterson" on youtube and sort by newest videos.

Virtually all of them are things like "Jordan Peterson DESTROYS crazy feminist", "Jordan Peterson explains the MEANING OF LIFE in 14 seconds" etc. and other such trivial nonsense.

>>10849772
I think that here, wrong = inevitably losing.

Peterson strikes me as an odd and slightly funny case.

He's like a manifestation of the crumbling status quo sent to renew itself using the limited wisdom that's both available and readily accepted (good luck trying to get westerners into mystic philosophy.)

He's entire modus operandi seems to be "avoid totalitarianism at all costs, do this by focusing on individual responsibility." The problem is though, as good as individual responsibility is, it can only take a society so far, especially one as complex and in dire need of restructuring as ours. Ironically, by refusing to address major issues of housing unaffordability, climate change, a loss of collective identity, insecure job markets, relentless advertising, etc. he's implicitly giving support to all the systems that are causing these issues, and by extension their ineffective "solutions" to the issues, which will only WORSEN the drive towards totalitarianism, not lessen it.

>>10849538
How do you know your cause is good if you couldn't even convince anyone of the flaws of 9/11 truthers?

>>10848179

He's pretty postmodern himself. His critique is on high modernity. We still live in an age of grand metanarratives, some of which were pieced together by borrowing postmodern ideas.

>>10847578
Niggas need to defoo

>>10847578
>Collectivism in family is a big part of why black communities are such a mess.

You're retarded. The rate of single mothers in the black communities is higher than it was in the 1950s. Family breakdown has made everything in the black community worse.

>>10850172
It's almost like he focuses on the individual. Which can, may and should change aspects of society. But only if the individual is seeing straight himself. And yes, you should avoid totalitarianism at all costs.

>>10849924
Because it's around the corner of all of us
>inb4 but muh innocence
No. Bullshit. You learn to contain your violence. Otherwise it'll get you when you're most unaware.

>>10849921
I think vecause he haven't noticed. JP is the kinda guy who'd go into such cobflicts if he has a chance of speeading his views.

>>10851051
Im drumk
Where did zuzek accept ?

>>10849472
7/10 some effort at last! Thank you, this is a good bait!

>>10842665
I bought it just to support him

>>10849896
Take to heart your advice.
He's not alt right by any decent definition of the term. He's not an ethnonationalist. He's not anti-semitic to any degree.
You're just so deep in your ideological bubble that you can't even tell apart very different political stances as long as they're on the opposite side from yours.

>>10843644
>buys a new copy each time he reads
Patrician status confirmed!

>>10847253
>I don't know what Peterson means by "meaning", but if I take it to mean what I mean it to mean, then Peterson's meaning is meaningless, you know what I mean?

>>10849896
You are nothing less than a coward. You stand on the ground they won and have the arrogance to condemn them? Fling yourself into the ocean. At least then you will be consistent. If imperialism was unredeemable, then how much worse is yours? Where does the silicon of your computer come from? How many ships cross our oceans for you to eat all that you do? The money you spend, how is it made? How are you kept secure, so that you may spend your time on the obscure fringes of a trivial debate? What peace and order you know to reject those who made it. For all their flaws, imperfections, and evils, you are the most evil fruit. What they did, they did for many. But with your share you have become tyrant. You would burn it all so long as you could keep the ashes.

>>10851344

Don't bother. They're a wannabe tyrant who will die in obscurity like the rest of us but dreams of being part of the Politburo bossing everyone else around after the Glorious Revolution.

>>10851033
That doesn't really address his greater point that such a focus given the crumbling infrastructure it reinforces only makes totalitarianism more likely. That doesn't make individual responsibility any less valuable, but it's also missing the forest for the trees. At least, that's the point they seem to be making.

>>10851391
It's a good point to be fair.
>crumbling infrastructure
I may be wrong because I'm not usaian, but isn't that a commie meme? It's a point that the soviets were forcing in the early XX. century. Or maybe you're talking about social/political/ideological infrastructure?

>>10842791
I like him when he talks about clinical psychology. That stuff is really interesting because there just aren’t that many good speakers that talk about it.

I think his politics are a bit overblown though. Is the far left annoying? Yeah. But it’s not this all encompassing monolith in university. It’s just a handful of pentualant children shouting at authority, same as it’s been for centuries.

>>10851474
I was talking about the latter, yes. Though I am left-leaning, so perhaps that invalidates a bit of everything I say by association.

>>10851542

I think the infrastructure of the current version of liberalism is crumbling, but I think Peterson's point is that since individuals can do little to change this other than get sucked into pointless ideological arguments, you're better off improving yourself. This isn't the first or last time the US has gone through upheavals so short of war, do your own thing.

>>10842809
Have you read Greene? He just tells a series of edgy stories in robotic prose for 700 pages. They're not really comparable.

>>10849924
Because psychologists unironically believe in human nature and that we are intrinsically violent. They live in delusion thinking if it wasn't for neuronormativity civilization would collapse. The worst part is that some people treat them as intellectual authorities without even questioning if psychology is a real science or not.

>>10849924
How sheltered are you?

>>10852082
That's the greatest fault I see in Peterson's character, that he's a psychologist and so given to flights of fancy 'neuronormative' and societal relations/behavior. Although he has dually proven to me that not all psychologists are fucking idiots, he is obviously one in a very large number since he's the only one to rise to such prominence. Though of course I still believe that as a discipline psychology is a crock of shit designed to syphon money out of dumbass roasties.

Violence is action taken against anything unyielding, so to say that the threat of it is implicit across all strata of society is not a very crazy claim. Weren't it present it seems like nothing would ever get done, because people would be left with no recourse further than argument, which even when well made can be unheard by opponents. Maybe an entirely non-violent society would neither be a prosperous one.

>>10852082
>>10852130
t. never seen a kid in their lives

>>10850140
That happens with every e-celeb

>>10848179
Not Heidegger nor Jung (nor Wittgenstein for that matter) were proto-postmodernist. Just because Derrida is a postmodernist doesn't mean deconstructionism is necessarily postmodernist too. The problem with postmodernism is not deconstructionism but its focus on power dynamics which lead to the West current obsession with subverting its values. I do like Derrida and I know blue haired dykes thinking superhero films with black and female leads are the first steps to an utopia were not what he had in mind yet, to a degree, it's still a consequence to his ideas because ironically they lend itself to be molded and absorbed by consumerism in a way that Heidegger's ideas don't. Peterson is not really wrong. He's just too ignorant about philosophy to understand why he's right.

>>10842665
You shouldn't, the attention has nothing to do with quality. A bunch of "right" wingers found him on youtube and so a bunch of "leftists" acted like they were under attack and cemtrists decided reading him meant they arent biased. Its all based on labels.

>>10842796
That book was trash, half the time he went on about how habits are cyclical and provided no way to change them aside from
>Hurr durr change 2/4 parts of the habit

I'm halfway through and it's not bad but holy fuck, how ridiculous do you have to be to demonstrate a concept with your "visions"? It's not like there wasn't enough literature to demonstrate his stuff. He's fucking full of himself, God.

>>10850140
Yeah that's fucking vile

>>10842665
I was in the bathroom in my office tower and someone had left it on the counter in bathroom while they were taking a shit. I took the book, threw it in the urinal, and pissed on it.

>>10852390
Based. You should have taken a shit too though.

>>10852390
>JBP when he sees this post

>>10852390
>Bucko didn't even sort himself out enough as to not lose his fucking book
he deserved it desu

>>10842665
Jung + Lobsters - Nieztsche = Bible

Saved you the trouble.

>>10851520
>But it’s not this all encompassing monolith in university
Yes it is. Where do you live or how old are you? Especially the younger generations either increasingly notice what a stiflingly politically correct echo chamber we live in (it being a part of school curriculums from elementary to middle to high school to college), or are so used to it they blindly support it. It's one of the greatest scourges of our times, and I'm not even a /pol/-tard, anti-semite, Neo-Nazi, fascist, or whatever.

>>10843644
>Peter Theil - Zero to One
Get out.

>>10849924
See >>10852106 . I don't even like Peterson but really sheltered people like you make me have sympathy for him.

>>10842665
No, he's only famous for being a bit of a cunt to non-bonary people. You'll get more from reading Kierkegaard.

>>10843644
>Peterson
>Vis
>Pop science
>Business advice
>Programming reference books]
>Only one piece of literature
What the fuck is /lit/ coming to...

>muh postmodernist neo-marxist boogeymen
>lol social structures don't exist
>actually making natural law arguments in current year
Absolute trash, anyone who started with the greeks should be ashamed of his "philosophy".

>>10847253
I'm beginning to believe in p-zombies reading that article. Is the writer of that article actually conscious or an automaton? Functionally, I'd say he's an automaton.

>>10842665
1/2

For a guy who is trying to look like a "good guy", he used a really lame marketing technique for the title (clickbait tier shit) by calling it "12 Rules". Couldn't have have come up with something a little more eloquent? No. He's selfish and cares only about sales, not about a making a genuinely good book title.

>>10842665
>>10852508
2/2

>>10847253
>A more important reason why Peterson is “misinterpreted” is that he is so consistently vague and vacillating that it’s impossible to tell what heis“actually saying.”

But that's wrong ?

>>10852514
>They are quite often french which is the worst thing you can be
This except unironically

When is this lying motherfucker going to debate a Marxist?
He keeps whining about no one engaging him in argument but then he avoids actual left intellectuals like the plague.
Most of the trash he has to say is absolutely destroyed by some basic socioeconomic analysis, but we wouldn't want the pseuds engaging in that evil feminist jewish magic plot, it corrupts their feeble minds.

>go to goodreads
>set reviews to 1 star
>endless reviews of "UMMM DA BIBLE IS STUPID"

lmfao

>>10852197
Jung and Heidegger are specifically postmodern because they are reactions to modernism. Jung's idea of meaning and its relation to the self is the first major break from modernism's ideas of progress.

Wittgenstein is specifically modernist. He's part of the logical postivists which Heidegger and Jung are reactions to, and that is why they are postmodernists and nobody with a brain would try to conflate them like you have. You are talking out of your ass and could not understand the authors you are talking about even if you had read them, which you haven't.

Peterson is wrong, and you're in no position to judge why or how and an eight year old with google could do better.

Here's a valid reason to hate him:

He's a hypocritical post-modernist. He doesn't believe in Jesus' resurrection and yet wants us and himself to follow Christianity, for practical reasons. Clearly what he is defending is that we should abide to some beliefs and principles because they make us feel good or help our lives a bit, not because they are true.

>>10852627
peterson has more credentials than you so you're in no position to judge him

checkmate faggot

>>10852597
there isn't a single serious person from a serious field that calls himself a Marxist, you live in a bubble if you believe otherwise.

>>10850808
>We still live in an age of grand metanarratives, some of which were pieced together by borrowing postmodern ideas.
>SJWs are using cognizant irony
>Peterson isn't shilling an alternative modernist perspective to theirs
It's not even that much of an alternative, it's just a different wrapping, and still modernism.

One side wants "female brains" to real, the other side wants "female bodies" to real. Both sides got outpaced by the shadowy third contender of modernism, actual science, around the point decades back they said it turns out we'd need more than six different types of gender badges and repeated samples from various sites in your body to hope to not miscategorize everyone, do we really want to do that or can society leave science alone and maybe call each other whatever they like or learn fucking science and we'll keep calling ourselves we even if we have to write papers with our cat.
Most people aren't that interested that the extensive testing to make sure they don't carry multiple chromosomes or DNA makeups is going to answer that social question. People who have bone marrow transplants from a different chromosomal sex are normally more worried about the aplastic anemia or cancer than anyone misgendering them because their blood tests read differently now. It's just not a priority for most people's lives to do that much real science.

Both Peterson and SJWs are sure though that science says they're right, and neither of them know science says they're wrong.

Both of them think thoughts the same way a fedora enlightens himself, and both of them rely on modernist narratives that
>the world would be so much better if only everyone listens to our demands and dogma that nobody fucking sane cares about

Whether it's an SJW telling me to go vegan for health or Peterson's daughter telling me to go carnivore for health, they're both stuck around 1900 and not postmodern.

It's the same shit painted a different color. At least when Hesse was mocking it in 1919, it was well written.

>>10852693
Nope

>>10852728
>when an eight year old with google whiteknights you
bless you my son come by after mass

>>10852702
Meaningless argument. There were scores of Marxists in every field when the international left was a real force. Marxism was a major university degree during the 90s in my country. Now they're marginalised in places like literary studies where they can't exert important influence. Only a naive idiot thinks ideological commitments are neutral in a capitalist society.

>>10852746
now you have a tiny inkling of what it is like to be actually right wing in our society

>>10842791
Just skip his religious stuff and he's alright.

>>10852728
Depressingly this isn't even the strangest thing i've seen someone say about Heidegger.

>>10852687
/thread

>>10852728
>German capitalizes noun
>What are the immplications of this?????
>Peterson confirmed pleb

>>10852762
Someone once told me
>it was hard because he uses a lot of Greek and German words in the text
>but it's okay because he put in footnotes explaining them when they came up
Parts of my face still twitch thinking about it.

>>10852746
You fail to name a 'marxist intellectual.' Because one does not exist.

>>10851692
I disagree, I think he's very interested in keeping things "the way they are," mostly out of his deep-seated terror of totalitarianism. If he conceded that this society actually has a lot of structural problems, he would have to admit that there are things affecting people in society which ARE beyond their control, which he seemingly completely denies.

>>10852106
>>10852463
Lol. "Sheltered." I've witnessed years of domestic violence, shootings, drug overdoses, and all sorts of shit living in a housing project. I still think Peterson is wrong, because his message is basically "You should teach your kid to appreciate you, so that you don't feel under-appreciated, because then you might kill your kid."

Another take I came across was this:

>What Peterson is basically advocating here is instead of the parent taking responsibility for "the beast inside them" and, you know, not abusing their child, the parent should teach the child to walk on eggshells in order that they don't do anything to "make" the parent abuse them.

>This is 100% dysfunctional, abusive parenting and victim blaming. Seriously, fuck that.

>Children are under no obligation to respect adults. It's up to the adults to earn the respect of children.

Basically, "You made me do it."

I've seen murder and can't get behind this shit, fuck calling me sheltered, lol. And even after seeing what I've seen I still don't think the potential for violence is beneath every discussion.

>>10852849
>one does not exist
Stop insulting our virgin Jewish Catholic Trotski-and-fascist fighting anorexic bowl cut Marxist critiquer of Marxists qt genius French gf Simone Weil like this and remember it is still Lent.

>>10852841
lmao are you sure you weren't being fucked with

>>10849924
Lol is this real?
I truly hope memerson didnt say this.

>>10852860
Well, I was wrong and I apologize about that. But that's a total misinterpretation of Peterson to make him seem more cynical and brutal than he really is. What he's saying is something anyone can agree with: Your children should respect you and you should do what you can to actually be and seem worthy of their respect, and should teach them the value of respecting you. Keep in mind that he's also speaking as a psychologist, and himself has in mind that he might be speaking to some people who might actually feel like abusing their kids/be gradually building up anger against them. From a psychologist's point of view, it's a bit -- if not outright -- mostly taboo to morally criticize and censure the patient, since that's counter-productive and will usually just offend them. Considering as if he's talking to "patients" (people with psychological tension and stressful lives who might feel like they might one day beat their patient), JBP morally criticizing them would be counterproductive. What is productive is offering a practical solution -- instead of just letting your kids disrespect you and letting all the resentment build up until you beat the shit out of them, try to work on making sure they respect you from the beginning.

Note that he doesn't say "fear" but "respect." He's not some cynical Machiavelli (leaving aside the trite debate on whether the Prince was satire or not) or something. It seems like you're seeing in Peterson what you want to see -- Peterson is cynical, Peterson is wrong, etc. keep in mind that Peterson has seen shit too, not only in his life but as a clinical psychologist -- you talk to people who have been raped, abused, perhaps have done the raping and abusing, etc. he also talks about the formative event of being shown around a prison and talking to murderers as part of his research iirc.

>>10852860
lol defensive

I don't know much about Peterson's views of family dynamics but from what you say they seem confucian, and so follow a theme of his ideas being the same as those found in ancient texts. Your worldview of "parents have to earn the respect of their children" might be valid but I can't get behind it because ideas about family dynamics have been pretty standard in most cultures for thousands of years (that the parents and especially father should command unquestioning respect) and our civilization is still around. Maybe I'm just a puppet of the patriarchy or maybe those ideas can simply be in conflict. I would say though that respect cannot really exist without being earned, and so often enough what exists in its stead between a parent and child is latent fear and resentment masquerading as acquiescence only to backfire when the child gains some measure of independence.

Maybe the ideal of unflinching respect is strived toward both by parent and child.

>>10852895
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tQOlQRp3gQ&t=1h05m10s

>>10852895
There's another one where his daughter is getting her knuckles crushed by a playground toddler bully, and Peterson thinks the bully is fucking with him for looking at him, and proceeds to ignore his daughter getting stomped on for complaining about how he's nor allowed drop kick the toddler for fucking with *him* by looking at him wrong

Kermit's top tier nutso.

>>10852907
I didn't understand at all what you said, the antecedents are confusing (who *he* is in this situation). Could you just link to the relevant video?

>>10849924
the reality is that men are totally emasculated by the state. the natural inclination of men is to be violent, incluing violence towards women and children if they step out of line. In our society you go to jail if you do this so only dumbasses are violent in this manner

Also this shit about being a man and cleaning your room and whatever is nonsense. All this depression and faggotry is due to cowardice and repressed aggression

>>10852903
One of the main experiences he found very impacting on him was him interviewing a serial killer/talking to serial killers actually

>>10852920
It's in one of his [Peterson's] books. Peterson takes his daughter to the playground. Some kid stomps on the daughter's fingers. Peterson locks eyes with the toddler and sees in the toddler a challenger. Peterson proceeds to say he wishes he could have beat up the kid for issuing a challenge to his authority. Never mentions if the daughter is okay or if he ever does anything to get the kid to stop repeatedly stepping on her fingers at any point. Search the archive or wait for anon to deliver, I'm not your slave.

>>10842804
>his science
I hope you're baiting

>>10852904
I'm thinking about my own father. He had multiple identities that he came about illegally and fathered me, just like he had fathered two other children in the past, under a false name, and my mom never found out until I was older. She also learned of his extensive criminal background, but that was long after he had beat the shit out of her a few times and had multiple affairs (even with men, one of whom he sexually assaulted). He ended up in legal trouble, which is how this all came to light. Turns out he also stole from his work, and sold drugs to make money on the side.

>So you know if you want to protect your child against the beast that’s inside you you might want to teach them to treat you with some respect so that you’re much more likely to be a civilized human being around them.

So how am I to enter into a filial relationship with this person and respect him? Why should he command unquestioning respect when the relationship is doomed before it even starts? How would my respect have prevented anything?

But still, even with that as my progenitor I don't believe this idea that there's some beast within people just waiting to come out.

>>10852931
>cowardice and repressed aggression
tbph i don't think the skinny kid that sounds like kermit survives grade school in such a world. so i can get on board for that alternate reality in which memerson wouldn't exist. sadly, he does in this world.

>>10852951
>So how am I to enter into a filial relationship with this person and respect him? Why should he command unquestioning respect when the relationship is doomed before it even starts? How would my respect have prevented anything?

He is half the reason for your existence. You would not be alive were it not for his sperm. Your debt to him is literally in-payable, no matter how much of a scoundrel he is. The worse he is, the more of an opportunity he gives you to be a saint, the more he is helping you to possibly be a better person by loving him anyway.

>>10852991
It's a ridiculous bromide to try to justify someone's shitty upbringing by saying "well at least your father taught who not to be." Yeah, fucking obviously, but more than often that shitty person raises another shitty person, so the question is whether undue respect should be given to someone despite their actions. I would restate that respect in this case is ill-fitted for such a relationship, but fear fits perfectly.
>>10852951
Obviously he didn't earn your respect, but had he done anything to earn and keep it, it would have been better for you to then give him the benefit of the doubt in future regarding respect.

>>10843653
Good list.

>>10852406
I didn't want to risk it, he was in the stall

>>10852627
>hurr durr actually postmodernism is what comes after modernism
Wow, how did we miss that. Are you retarded or something, bro? When people talk about postmodernism, or at least when Peterson does it and therefor what is being talked about ITT, they are referring specifically to poststructuralism, which is an specific answer to something a lot more specific than just modernism, but you already know that, you fucking moron. You just get off from taking a conversation out of its context so you can look clever by arguing about the semantics. Congratulations, you're as much of a brainlet as Peterson. Now take your reddit spacing where it belongs.

>>10842665
long-winded and dull, don't read

>>10853394
>it's what's comes after
There are still modernists, we haven't got to "after". What postmodernism does is attack the principles of modernism: if it doesn't address modernism, it's not postmodern. There are other movements like surrealism which are neither of these things and have elements of both because they exist in the same time period.
Similarly, poststructuralism is a set of arguments which seeks to illustrate structuralism's failures. Taking either side in that did not appeal to Derrida, so he specifies he is not a poststructuralist, even though he is writing after structuralism has faltered greatly, and writing about (but not specifically for or against) some of the same principles and ideas floating around at the time.
You're objectively a moron and everyone who's read books by and/or on the authors who are not Memerson in this chain, or who have even a cursory understanding of modernism and postmodernism, knows you're a pseud.

>>10853031
>well at least your father taught who not to be
I said your father gives you the potential to be good by acting good to him. Read more carefully. The idea I am getting across is that he is giving you a chance to be good. Without conflict, without a negative force, there is no potential to manifest positively.

>>10852728
WTF? This can't be real LMAO. How can you misunderstand Heidegger this much? Heidegger literally believed in the opposite of that.

>>10853413
>well actually
Bro, stop doing this. If you get told something and you understand it perfectly well what necessity do you have to change the course of the conversation so you can show off how well read you are. This is not reddit, bro. No one is going to give you an up vote for explaining something that has been implicit from the beginning. Are you autistic? And If I'm a pseud so be it, but I don't really care about Peterson anyway. I just don't like redittors being smug in my board.
Also the "postmodernism is what comes after modernism" was just a throwback to something DFW, another brainlet, once said.

>>10852390
Not lie, you are faggot so you don't make n

>>10853424
A "good" person can still be manifested without conflict or negativity, it's just a question whether that person is truly good given his or her limit in choice. There are circumstances under which it is easier to be good than bad, such as in an organized religion or an organization in general. Back to the point: conflict as a means of teaching one to be good is a bad means. It can easily teach him or her to be bad in response in order to lessen his or her own pain. The only way a father can go without giving that chance to be good to his child is by absence.

The father and child relationship is likely the most one-sided relationship any given person has, and so being good to one who has so much power over you will ultimately teach you to be good to all who would do you harm as well. It's not a winning tactic to be good without question.

>>10853440

prove it

>>10853613
I'm not a Heidegger scholar so I can't give you exact quotes but everyone knows that Heidegger rejected metaphysics and what Peterson is saying sounds very metaphysical to me.

>>10853661
>everyone knows that Heidegger rejected metaphysics
Ho
Ly
Shit

>>10843814
>philosopher to predict the tens of millions of deaths in the 20th century that would occur from people trying and failing to create their own values outside of religiosity
In what book does he say this?

>>10847253
genuinely dislike peterson, but this article was so moronic it made even me find affections for him. thanks /lit/

>>10853993
yeah? what was 'moronic' about it?
what did he get wrong?

>>10853996
Pretty much what this guy said >>10851298. He tried to go after Peterson work as a psychologist but didn't have any clue of what he was talking about. He did the same shit Peterson does with Derrida. And by the tone of the whole thing and his previous articles you can tell the guy only real problem with Peterson is that Peterson prominence among the youth undermines his idealized vision of the left.

>>10854056
Point out the specific instances where his understanding of the subject matter fails or falls short
What is Robinson's ideal vision of the left?

>>10847253
That was pretty great and he's spot on. Peterson deliberated ambiguous ideas would be laughed off at any analytic philosophy department. You can't properly discuss with someone who's suggesting something instead of saying it. I assure you that if someone pushed him into answer why he can't make clear statements he would be exposed immediately.

>>10854104
>That was pretty great
If you think anything Robinson writes is "pretty great" there's a high chance you're a zealot.
The man coincidentally suffers from a lack of critical thinking whenever it would hurt him ideologically to act otherwise. Let's not even mention the pointless provocative shit he does to get more clicks.

>>10851282
>He's not alt right by any decent definition of the term. He's not an ethnonationalist. He's not anti-semitic to any degree.
I never said that he is, Memerson knows how to sail in both shallow and deep waters and he's not stupid. So he'll never say something outrageously stupid. But I like to point out how memers like you who have no concept of actual history parrot the claims of people more intelligent than you at face value.
>>10851344
>You stand on the ground they won and have the arrogance to condemn them?
No, I still on the grounds they plundered and raped for centuries and left in the abysmal conditions. My ancestors were dying of famine or drought and the so called British liberal, most of them of same breeds, called the atrocities of imperialism a gift that Britain imparted on the land. Stop being a faggot and assuming things like
>How many ships cross our oceans for you to eat all that you do? The money you spend, how is it made? How are you kept secure, so that you may spend your time on the obscure fringes of a trivial debate?
Ok sweetie?

>>10849472
>we

I love Peterson threads. Baiters always bring their A game.

>>10854371
>Memerson knows how to sail in both shallow and deep waters and he's not stupid
Or, he's simply not a fascist or alt righter or anything of the sort and he's just a guy on the center right.
You can go ahead and think that everything moderately right wing or center right is ACKSHUALLY a dog whistle, but the only thing that you'll prove by doing that is how drunk you are on ideology.
>memers like you who have no concept of actual history
wat

>>10853984
He didn't. Peterson fans just haven't read the books they talk about.

>>10853661
Depends what you mean by metaphysics. If you mean it in a classical way yes but Heidegger has his own interpretation of a post-Kantian definition of the word which allows him to be on call even Nietzsche metaphysical without looking like a complete dick.

I ain't never made my bed and I ain't never gonna

>>10854429
>Or, he's simply not a fascist or alt righter or anything of the sort and he's just a guy on the center right.
>You can go ahead and think that everything moderately right wing or center right is ACKSHUALLY a dog whistle, but the only thing that you'll prove by doing that is how drunk you are on ideology.
You can continue to move goalposts by saying things that I never typed out but that wouldn't make it the actual case. I don't think Memerson has some grand agenda, I just think he's an opportunist. I don't think he's alt right, ethno-nationalist. And he's as much a closet facist as an average Randtard is.
But yeah, keep saying ideology, drunk on ideology or possessed by ideology or or ideological bubble or whatever. People like Peterson are literally internet memes to me and everyone not living in US/Canada and you can be rest assured I don't lose any sleep over Peterson suddenly becoming too famous or the rise of ultra right or whatever.

>>10853984
>>10854451
Not Nietzsche, but Bakunin kind of did imply things like Soviet Union and Mao/Pol Pot.

>>10854461
>You can continue to move goalposts by saying things that I never typed out
I thought you were the guy I was originally talking to, that's why I said that. If you're not, I don't care about the rest.

>>10842809
>Whole entire chapter dedicated to virtues of truth
>Machiavellian Literature

>>10843814
>So far as I can surmise his preoccupation with Neechuh is on the psychological level, being that he Peterson is a psychologist, because Nietzsche was the philosopher to predict the tens of millions of deaths in the 20th century that would occur from people trying and failing to create their own values outside of religiosity.
holy kek, petersonfags everyone

>>10847667
Didn't he himself say that psychology and medicine weren't really even sciences because they have the objective of creating something, or bettering something, but they aren't purely based on non-value driven understanding? Maybe I'm remembering that wrong, perhaps he said Therapy and Medicine.

>>10854404
Is it bait? Or is it genuine discussion? I know when I discuss videogames on /vg/ there's a decent amount of times that people think I'm trolling or something when I'm legitimately just trying to have a conversation. It's hard to tell sometimes.

>>10854215
Robinson is ten times the intellectual Peterson is.

are there non communists or nazis that hate the guy? i dont see how hate for his work could come out from someone who is not ideologically enslaved, his messages seem pretty commonsensical.

>>10847253
i was gonna give that article a chance,
>(It does help if you are male and Caucasian.)
then i didnt.

Lmao is this for real

>>10843443
Frozen is propaganda.

>>10842665
not really interested in self-help books, nor interested in dumbed-down popular-psychology written for lost and desperate to belong neckbeards who wave kekistani flags.

Big brain genius doesn't understand satire.

>>10847253
Lol, are those quotes for real?

>>10854586
this looks like it was taken straight out of a Lacan book

>>10847885
Anything with 'Truth' or 'Debunked' in the title is hyperpseud-tier.
And this has both...

>>10847253
No one posted a pic?
Harvardsociology.gif

>>10847253
>If you want to appear very profound and convince people to take you seriously, but have nothing of value to say, there is a tried and tested method. First, take some extremely obvious platitude or truism.
But if you're truly profound, make sure to start off with incomplete sentences.
This is what Harvard buys you.

>>10847253
More great stuff:
https://www.theringer.com/2017/3/23/16044958/new-left-media-current-affairs-chapo-trap-house-crooked-media-9cb016070532
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mpUrE0uOYc
>the alt-left can rise with cool as shit parodies of children's books

>>10843644
>sicp
i jelly

>>10843653
>no meme trilogy
indeed, peterson is a hack

>>10854741
Fuck off. Chapo Trap House is great. Everyone who went to a decent college likes them. If you don't listen to them you're probably some resentful nobody.

>>10854791
worst falseflag attempt I've ever seen

>>10847253
>You made it!
The article does make some valid points, but I will never forgive the author for that youtube-video-where-the-presenter-quotes-somebody-or-plays-a-clip-then-the-video-will-cut-to-them-wearing-a-ridiculous-faux-cringe-look-on-their-face-that-they-think-somehow-validates-their-opinion-because-the-content-creator-is-stuck-so-far-up-their-own-ass-that-they-honestly-believe-that-they-have-just-told-a-joke attitude.

Imagine being this pathetic to hate a dude who never meet

>>10842758
?

>>10850172
>There are children starving in Africa RIGHT NOW, and you're posting a skeleton on the internet

>>10849102
literal brainlet, visit >>>/pol/ and see for yourself

>>10852948
How fucking out of touch are you? That is literally not what he says. It goes like this:
>fucker locks eyes with Memerson
>proceeds to be a fucker anyways
>the fucker clearly thinks he can fuck with adults, because at that point, he's no fucking with his daughter but with him
>why does the fucker think so? because he thinks adults are pathetic
>memerson proceeds to bring his daughter away
>and contemplates that the fucker would be better off if he were taught that adults have authority
The amount of misinterpretation his stuff gets only shows how fucking well off and sheltered the average westerner is.

>>10845287
desu this

>>10854056
>>10854065
nothing? really?

>>10842665
>literally the first two lines: "If you are like most people, you don’t often think about lobsters—unless you’re eating one. However, these interesting and delicious crustaceans are very much worth considering."
>already references DFW

based JP, I think you should read him OP

>>10852907
>>10852948
I knew this guy was a legit psycho.

>>10853505
>I was pretending to be retarded
>see I'm not really retarded because I quoted DFW on postmodernism
m8 I'm not him, but you need to learn how to walk away when you've lost and how to type without memes from 2015

>>10855463
>I am IN HERE

>>10854530
this is where i stopped also, and i'm not even white