/lit/ - Literature

>>10826536
I honestly dont understand whs anyone with financial security would off himself. Like nigga, just take a walk.

>>10826536
If you were there how would you have talked him out of it?

>>10826567
Like nigga, just take a walk.

>>10826536
He wasn't sane.

>>10826536
He realized he wasn't going to be able to trick people into thinking he had talent. He knew he was a hack and everyone knew he knew it.

>>10826536
He was ahead of the curve of culture, politics and environment

Soon enough, we will all find ourselves in the exact same spot, where suicide will be deemed more bearable than continuing on with living

>>10826536

>people trying to find deep philosophical reasons for his death when he was just the victim of mental illness

I'm surprised he didn't get embarrassed just before he did it and stopped.

>>10826684
If I was going to kill myself I would never write a suicide note, because if I survive that shit would sound really gay.

>>10826548
I've had the feeling where I was successful in everything I wanted to be, and I felt no better afterwards than before.
I made much more money than I'd ever asked for, I was sexually satisfied, and I was professionally successful. And I realised none of that gave me the feeling I wanted. So I can completely understand why these famous and successful people might still want to kill themselves.

>>10826606
>>10826606
>>10826606
>>10826606
>>10826606

>>10826536
because they did barracudas

He stopped taking his pills and they didnt work anymore after he tried to use them again
I have bipolar depression and I can tell you than when your brain wants you off the map it will make everything a sign of suicide being the only way. If the term mental illness would be changed to soul illness it would convey in a better way what real experience of it really is. You are just born with a rotten core.
But if you take the right meds you can be ok
DFW was kind of an ass but I still feel sorry for him.

>Living in Allston, MA
>Recently muscled out of my drinking community by a bum liver.
>Riding the Greenline home
>Lurching around in the subway car tracking footnotes in a 3 pound book.
>Year of the Fuck this.

>>10826677
>mental illness
>real

>>10827170
Epic!

>>10826548
I've inherited a few mill $$$ and now just feel even more stressed out.

>>10826548
He killed himself because he achieved everything he wanted to and still felt unhappy.

>>10827170
Thanks Dad

>>10826888
This.

He had a severe mental illness folks. A legitimate disease of the mind. Its tragic.

>>10827188
Fuck off

>>10827188
I'd like a couple thousand Euros thank u very much

>>10827188
If it's making you miserable, may I have some? I am miserably poor.

>>10827188
Kys

>>10826536
He knew how much of a fraud he was, he knew and lived with the real DFW. There obviously must have been something ugly in his darkness.

If you have clinical depression it is not about your mentality. It is really bothersome that people don't understand the difference between mentality and mental illness.

>>10826536
He exhausted his coping mechanism for coping with whatever traumas he had and couldnt bare to confront it

his books are about loneliness. he was obviously suffering. people like him need to have childen at some point

>>10827410
t. kermit the frog

cbd wasn't a thing. Imagine if all he had to do was whip out a vape pen to make the bad thoughts go away.

>>10827371
>>10827410
>>10827369
>>10826888
>>10826659
>liking DFW
see >>10827537

>>10827170
silly

>>10826536
he predicted the rise of internet as a true source of literary genius and knew he couldn't compete, so offed himself

>>10827188
This, money just means more choices.

>>10826569
He had a mental disease known as depression. Changed meds. New ones didn't work, so he went back to the old ones, but they also didn't work. So, yeah. No amount of "walks" could have cure him.

>>10827188
buy me some anime blu-rays, it might prove relaxing

"mental illness"
He did it to save billions read the neon story

>>10827170
simple ebin

"dude here's some pills to make you think everything is normal"

Since 4chan generally doesn't aknowledge mental illnesses as real, am I allowed to off myself if I suffer from uncurable physical illness that causes me constant pain?

>>10827981
That doesn't mean mental illnesses are unreal, it just means modern science still doesn't have any valid cure.
When you think about it, modern medicine prescribes pills even for phyisically ill people, just so they will consume. It doesn't mean the illness isn't real.

>>10827658
Jokes on you I only read the wiki of his death. Pretty retarded of you to think my desire for people to understand medical depression somehow relates to my enjoyment of his works which I haven't read. You are really a smart guy.

>>10828695
Cure for what? Its not an illness because normal isn't healthy you fucking spooked up nigger

>>10827410
>dude just have a kid

>>10828799
...with the right woman, not a fucking trainwreck.

>>10828799
Kurt Cobain got murdered by his wife and the drummer of his band, sure he was edgy but it was not the same case at all.

>>10828801
Oh great, more criteria

>>10828801
not doing all those drugs would've helped as well

>>10828834
You don't know that at all, he might have killed himself sooner without drugs

>>10828791
>normal isn't healthy
You're right, everyone who is healthy in the current society is actually not normal.

>>10827188
Gibs money pls

>>10828799
Cobain was so abominable. I pity him but also have an intense revulsion for him. I respect DFW and even someone like Sylvia Plath's depression and suicide much more. In Cobain, it manifested as an extreme childishness, resentfulness, edginess and morbidity. The ultimate example of how, while depressed people are to be pitied, they also are blind to how their own indulgence in negative emotions is so destructive to themselves and grating to everyone around them. Truly just an ill and childish person

>>10829320
You're basically just describing DFW though. I really see little difference between the two of them

>>10829320
Literally just described DFW

>>10829346
DFW tried to have ideals, for instance, to idealize being emotional and sincere and not being afraid of sentimentality. He was somewhat of a crypto-Christian, shilling Christian-like ideals and including favorable depictions of Christians/Christianity in TPK and IJ, from what I remember. He talked about being able to endure boredom and appreciate community and all the benefits we had. He also conceded that depressed people could be disgustingly morbid, unsympathetic, and overly self-pitying -- read his story "The Depressed Person". I'd call him anything but "childish, edgy, rebellious, overly resentful and self-pitying." What I'm saying is, he TRIED. Cobain was all "lol shoot up heroin smoke weed fuck the establishment and mainstream media and pop culture (even tho I'm a part of it) lol fuck having any ideals and fuck god and Christianity I'm interested in Buddhism tho lol freedom from suffering that sounds cool haha its so punk and chill I hate myself and wanna die loooooool". It irritates me that he's idealized and seen as some tragic hero by some when really his greatest problem was that he was trapped in the edgy and endlessly self-pitying abyss of his self. Excessive self-hatred is just another form of self-absorption (as DFW points out pretty well in his story The Depressed Person I was talking about; also incidentally a Sufi idea mentioned in some Sufi parables against insincere asceticism/piety).

>>10827658
There wouldnt be anyone left!!!

>>10829434
Have you read Kurt's suicide letter?
Its the very definition of New Sincerity

>>10829696
Transcript

>>10829434
>confusing musician for intellectual
kind of missing the point here

>>10828822
>Cobain got murdered by his wife and the drummer of his band,
Gib Proof

>>10829700
>...since the age of seven, I've become hateful towards all humans in general. Only because it seems so easy for people to get along that have empathy. Only because I love and feel sorry for people too much I guess.
What did he mean by this?

>>10826536
>read this and you'll understand
http://thislandpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Every-Love-Story-Is-a-Ghost-Story-A-Life-of-David-Foster--414x629.jpeg

>>10827170
Whoa....

>>10826659
I think it was more like he got to a point where he felt like he couldn't contribute more than he consumed.

>>10829255
they're just too busy to observe the society

>>10827791
Depression is a meme, and people are still falling for it in 2018.

>>10830236
Last men gonna last

>>10827188
Same it fucking sucks man. Don't know which color to get my new lambo in :(

>>10829848
He has a kind soul not meant for this world.

>>10830236
This better be a shitty attempt of acting retarded

>>10830270
I've been diagnosed and am currently medicated for depression and I can still tell you its fucking bullshit made up condition

>>10829848
This is exactly what I meant. It's mind-boggling. Under the pretense of having too much empathy and being a kind soul, he openly admits to being misanthropic and hating all humans in general. It's disgusting and saddening how he doesn't realize HE DOESN'T LOVE AND FEEL SORRY FOR PEOPLE TOO MUCH, he's actually filled with hatred, vengefulness, and self-pity.

Look at his fucked up head, what would have been the point?

>>10828799
Cobain wasn't a 'person like him' though. Cobain probably had an IQ around 80, whereas Wallace had at least a 90.

hey peeps, not completely related but what would be good books on new sincerity/against irony by dfw ?

>>10830361
>good
You won't find any.

>>10829848

DFW only wishes he could write like Rogers.

>>10830270
What are you, 19?

>>10829848
>>10830326
Maybe he felt deeply disappointed in humanity in aggregate because he loved people as individuals and wanted the world to do better by them. But he felt like this was impossible, or that he was only capable of making things worse by living and selling a lie. Like the world could never live up to his standards, but it was his fault. Obviously it's contradictory, but he was fatally mentally ill so what did you expect?
Idk, I'm not even a Nirvana fan, that's just what I got out of reading the letter.

>>10830275
It's the common cold of mental health. It's probably better understood as a pattern of symptoms that has many potential causes than as a disease in its own right. The idea of depression as a chemical imbalance, specifically a serotonin imbalance, is pretty inaccurate which is why SSRIs have such a dismal track record. But the mental state itself is a medical reality and is worthy of treatment and further investigation, even if doctors are too quick to hand out the pills. Don't be so hard on yourself.

>>10826536
HE DRESSES LIKE SUCH A RETARD IT PISSES ME OFF LIKE FUCK JUST WEAR A T SHIRT LIKE A NORMAL FUCKING PERSON


WHAT EVEN IS THAT????

>>10830589
Better?

>>10827658
this board is just for discussing books you elitist faggot

>>10830620
How much must he fucking sweat to wear the bandanna constantly?

>>10828822
Come on faggot even plebs know that Cali Dewitt pulled the trigger

>>10827188
Dude, fuck you.

>>10826888
>bipolar depression
>your brain wants you off the map
>sould illness
>You are just born with a rotten core
Your mental illness is not "bipolar depression" wathever that is, you have clinical oligophrenia.
Your perception of yourself and the others is mediated by sets of appreciations (and many other things) which end up with you wanting to give up life or keep up living.
To reduce it to "i'm severely ill", "my brain wants me to commit suicide" is just retarded.

>>10830620
What did DFW mean with this t-shirt ?

>>10831025
my personal opinion was he poking fun at the photographers. The way they chant is similar to the silliness of those robots.
>>10826536
but for real, David killed himself because he was unable to live the way he wished he could. A lot of bad shit went down in his later life that made him feel unclean i think.

>>10827188
Wow must be tough eating ANYTHING YOU WANT

>>10829696
>>10829700
Sure, but it doesn't conflict with the point that he was moody, childish and resentful. he's being honest and admiting that he is

>>10827729
>he predicted the rise of internet
More like he completely missed it and put all his stock in floppy disks

>>10828837
Idk dude, look at the conditions he was living in at the time.

>>10831108
lel this, its hilarious how outmoded his vision of the future was

>>10831119
Are you saying he should have cleaned his room?

>>10831127

>>10826698
Kek, I thought I was gonna die once while lost in the woods so I recorded a video for my family. Watching it now it's just 30 minutes of incoherent whimpering.

>>10827188
got any for me?????

>>10830275
t. self-hating cuck who fell for /pol/'s false values

>>10826536
With a few exceptions, if you kill yourself you clearly aren't thinking rationally. I'm sure if we could conjure his ghost and ask why he did it the answer wouldn't make any sense at all.

we cant know what people with depression feel. I mean true depression, not tumblr existential crysis "depression". If you havent read IJ, read the excerpt of the analogy of being depressed as being locked in a high building in a room with fire coming close in one side, and a open window the next side. Your fear of jumping is a constant, however, the fear of death by fire is even more terrifying. Jumping is never for a second 'not bad' or 'ok', its just less worse.

and we, we are the pedestrians on the side walk trying to imagine what it is like.

>>10831463
>/pol/'s values are false
>still calls you a cuck

>>10831573
>we cant know what people with depression feel

Speak for yourself, basically everyone has felt depressed at some point

>>10831590
to the point of borderline suiciding? I bet most people haven't

>>10831618
Action is no objective measurement of experience. You know there's a funny that happens when people are put on new anti-depressant medication that highers their risk of suicide enormously, its not because they become more miserable but that the medication gives them enough optimism and energy to believe that its even worth the bother to end your suffering
There are worse things in this life than death

>>10827188
I really really don't understand this at all. Why would having money make you stressed out you fucking weapon.

>>10827188
Thrasycles: Ah, Timon, I am not come like the rest of the crowd; they are dazzled by your wealth; they are gathered together with an eye to gold and silver and high living; they will soon be showing their servile tricks before your unsuspicious, generous self. As for me, you know a crust is all the dinner I care for; the relish I like best is a bit of thyme or cress; on festal days I may go as far as a sprinkling of salt. My drink is the crystal spring; and this threadbare cloak is better than your gay robes. Gold—I value it no higher than pebbles on the beach. What brought me was concern for you; I would not have you ruined by this same pestilent wealth, this temptation for plunderers; many is the man it has sunk in helpless misery. Take my advice, and fling it bodily into the sea; a good man, to whom the wealth of philosophy is revealed, has no need of the other. It does not matter about deep water, my good sir; wade in up to your waist when the tide is near flood, and let no one see you but me. Or if that is not satisfactory, here is another plan even better. Get it all out of the house as quick as you can, not reserving a penny for yourself, and distribute it to the poor five shillings to one, five pounds to another, a hundred to a third; philosophy might constitute a claim to a double or triple share. For my part—and I do not ask for myself, only to divide it among my needy friends—I should be quite content with as much as my scrip would hold; it is something short of two standard bushels; if one professes philosophy, one must be moderate and have few needs—none that go beyond the capacity of a scrip.

>>10831634
You need to manage it and it only gives you additional things to think about.

>>10831628
>There are worse things in this life than death
that was my point >>10831573. In that case, being alive would be to get consumed by the fire, so in the analogy, a greater pain than to die. And I agree with what you said about action, but I meant depression to the point of the person not being able to leave bed, not necessarily commiting it. Maybe what we think of being 'depression' is different, but for me is that of not being able to leave bed. I had what some people may call depression, I was doing my normal routine but straight up miserable, did not see the point in literally nothing I did, and I used to get no joy AT ALL, even from.my favorite hobbies. For me though, that was just being 100% demotivated with everything, not depressed. Lasted bit more than a week

>>10831661
I think its more, if you're poor you have an excuse for being a loser and having nothing to do, when you're rich you have no excuse for not living the dream and if you don't then there's something wrong with you

>Ctrl+f YouTube
>0 results
Come on now
He saw the culmination of his worst fears about humanity realized

>>10831697
>For me though, that was just being 100% demotivated with everything, not depressed

They're easily the same thing. This is one of the problems with depression as a term. We use it to place certain people's experiences in a special ghetto where there is no contact with normal folk when really each person's case is at the same time unique and universally felt

I have been that person who spent months being in bed 20+ hours a day myself. I see why I behaved that way not because I felt worse than some but my logic saw no better way to behave at that time. It was a rational lifestyle choice that couldn't be reduced down to mere neurochemistry

>>10831697
>>10831717
Skipping work right now because I'd simply rather not work. Allegedly have BPD1.
Lying in bed trying to sleep as much as possible so I can dream up a day more interesting than lying in bed or 9-5ing.
Anhedonic or whatever maybe. Turned on phone to porn and fap to help me sleep. Which is how I'm back on this thread. Mother's worried I'm depressed but I just don't want to work or do much else really. Fuck meds. Blech. Trying to say I relate I guess though I'd never suicide

>>10832013
>when you wake up from a dream where you forgot you were depressed

>>10829696
>Kurt's

>>10829696
fuck I didn't need to read that today

>>10832608
Oh sorry, Mr Cobain's

>>10827188
can you send me some?

>>10832032
>dream about suicide, dying, and/or getting shot point blank in the face again
>wake up
>for a brief moment feel relief to have escaped the dream
>feel content and happy
>"why did I have that weird dream lol"
>suddenly remember your life
>suddenly the choices you've made that led you here
>suddenly realize that even in sleep you are not free from this miserable existence
>never free
>ever

>>10829696
>this note should be pretty easy to understand
Maybe if you didn't have the handwriting of a third grader.

>>10832749
>How to lucid dream bros?

>>10826536
death makes an artist more valuable. He knew we were going to talk about him. Q Anon predicted his death.

Also, his face is pocked marked, so he probably got tired of seeing his cratered face.

>>10833477
>death makes an artist more valuable

Writing good books is actually a more reliable method

>>10827170
Ignore the samefags, this post is correct.

>>10833491
maybe if you have some discernible talent

>>10826536
>Was living really so hard?
Living is easy with eyes closed.

>>10826536
He wanted to make himself famous

>>10829848
2deep4u

>>10827188
Please help me.

>>10833559
Misunderstanding all you see?

>>10829848
lmfao, what a trash tier hooman

>>10830765
Maybe he just liked bandannas, man.
Not everything needs a reason or needs to be reasonable.

>>10830765
>>10833916

It was a vain affectation that hasn't aged well, don't believe his lies about the sweat

Though it has made him kind of iconic

>>10826567
if you do it, they'll publish the pale king prematurely and outside a nice quote about 'words' it'll mostly suck

>>10826536
>Wallace struggled with alcoholism, drug addiction, and suicidal tendencies, with recurrent psychological depression and commitments to psychiatric wards, bouts of inappropriate sexual behavior with some of his women students, and stalking a woman of whom he was enamored
He was /r9k/. That's why he had to do it.

>>10830173
Yes, roasties are definitely too busy sucking cock.

>>10835086
he fucked his students?

>tfw your cow-eyed, fresh-faced innocence and clarity of prose with a quiet air of talent-in-the-rough will never catch the attention of professor wallace
>tfw you will never drop a paper in the box outside his door and hear him ask you to come sit for a moment he was just thinking about the short story you submitted for critique last class
>tfw he will never pretend he left his notes at his house and ask if youd like to go with him to pick them up
>tfw you will never stand awkwardly at the threshhold of his front door tucking your hair behind your ears because youre not sure if youre allowed to come in
>tfw professor wallace no please call me david will never say from within the semi dark of his house oh please come inside just a second make yourself at home ill go look for that paper
>tfw you will never set your bag down to look around his living room furtively with your hands clasped behind your back making yourself small as possible till professor wallace no david comes back with the notes
>tfw he will never ask you are you in a rush? itd be nice if i could go over this with you while youre here, never enough time in class- can i get you a drink?
>tfw you will never fail to mention youre not of legal drinking age (he probably knows anyway) and then get progressively more pink cheeked and effusive from vodka and sodas
>tfw you will never have a moment of strange heart thumping stomach butterflies when dfw touches your hand and checks to see whether or not youre blushing
>tfw david foster wallace will never undress you in his living room
>tfw you will never run your hands over david foster wallace’s back as he makes slow and steady love to you

>>10829700
>I only did it because I cared too much, I wass too good for this world.
Fuck off, him and his worthless musical career

Think about it, if your most famous work, your "magnum opus", was that drivel of shit Infinite Jest, then you'd want to off yourself as well.

>>10835389
>tfw you will never fail to mention youre not of legal drinking age
Hahaha fucking americans

>>10827188
Let me share your burden anon.
Give me some of that money.

>>10826536
he knew his work was garbage and he knew it was used to promote nihilism

>>10826853
People don’t want to be happy, they just want the idea of happiness to be slightly within reach.

He said it himself
Depression that sometimes was so bad he couldn’t get out of the bed for days, he was hurting everyone around him.
He’s the one with the popular quote about depression feeling like being inside a building on fire and jumping out of the window is suicide, he is not happy about jumping out of the window, in fact he is terrified like any of us, but jumping out of the window seems infinitely better than waiting for the flames to consume you.
Pretty sure dude was clinically depressed and had enough of ruining the life of everyone around him.

>>10829434
>crypto-christian
Doesn't he specifically refer to members of his church in his 9/11 piece?

>>10830131
>linking to an image
>on an image board
ISHYGDDT

>>10826548
OP calls living difficult but more accurately it's just sort of pointless. Financial security doesn't change that, arguably it makes it worse.

>>10827170
>have cancer
>take medicine
>cancer goes away
>feel sad
>it's mental illness
>sometimes not sad
>didn't take medicine
>illnesses cure themselves
people who believe in mental illness are just morons who grow up in the modern age where anti depressants have been so propagandized and accepted that half the west is taking them now, I'm pretty sure half the world isn't all suffering the same malaise

>>10832680
no you’ve missed it, that’s not his handwriting.

>>10826536
Was he even sincere?

>>10830241
worst part is if you get the lambo you might not be able to afford the helicopter
and how the fuck will you reach the yacht?

>>10831127
upper tier kek

>>10835996
Is anyone?

>>10835774
this
also, i have secret money i pretend i don't have, so i can be frugal and happy

>>10835846
>people who believe in mental illness are just morons who grow up in the modern age where anti depressants have been so propagandized and accepted that half the west is taking them now, I'm pretty sure half the world isn't all suffering the same malaise
I agree with this.