/lit/ - Literature

what about not reading Foucault through the lens of "queer theory"

>>10827222
Well as far as I know, queer theory denies the stability of the sexual subject and examines how he is constituted by culture and history. I'm not knowledgeable about it though, I'm just asking where to start with this.

>>10827137
he was a pleb at history, so if you are not interested in his theory look for somebody else

I've studied books written in "queer theory" for university classes, mostly in history, and I can tell you, even for their most renowned authors, their academic work is sub-par, their conclusions tendentious or outright polemical in their biases. Most of these authors consider (and you'll often find it openly, shamelessly and blatantly stated in their works) that contemporary moral issues supersede the search for truth; they look to history in order to find justification for contemporary "bodies" and thus their research is always nearly unusable in academic contexts, without almost doing it again for them. Which is a shame because they work in fields which sometimes interest no one else, and they're the only ones to furnish data on some particular aspects of history, but their data and their conclusions are nearly always flawed.

>>10827137
>queer theory
Oh boy

>>10827137
Le queering le gender binary
YAS KWEEN SLAY
so diverse and progressive
Cultural Marxism Doritos

>queer theory

>>10827137
>Where do I go afterwards?
Back to tumblr.

A thread died for this.

>>10827323
>>10827596
Back to /pol/, children.

>>10827607
even Sara Ahmed herself made fun of that paper on twitter, you dumb pseud

>>10827304

>Most of these authors consider (and you'll often find it openly, shamelessly and blatantly stated in their works) that contemporary moral issues supersede the search for truth;

Go ahead and hit me up with a minimum of two (2) author names.

>>10827607
>people acknowledge dumb pseudo-philosophy for cum-drinkers for what it is
>"hurr must be /pol/"

>>10827137
Anyone else unironically HATE these blue hair freaks? I doubt they actually enjoy getting fucked in the ass, they just put up with it because they want access to Americas she priesthood

>>10827637
Foxhall, Lin. Studying Gender in Classical Antiquity, Cambridge, Cambridge University Press, 2013, 188 p.

Keuls, Eva C. The Reign of the Phallus : Sexual Politics in Ancient Athens, Los Angeles, University of California Press, 1985, 477 p.

>>10827637
At page XII of Foxhall's work you will find a "confession of faith" where the author states her belief that contemporary issues inform all historical research.
Keuls' work is a thorough indictment of Athenian society, which reads like a polemical work.
Note the first is published by Cambridge, the second by UCLA.

>>10827137
This is now a gay bashing thread. Post infuriating content associated with the cultural Marxism community
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LcqYHKV6-1Y

>>10827842
What kind of an anti-intellectual piece of shit do you have to be, to deny the usefulness of studying sexual history?
I expected these kinds of comments but the reactionary sentiment on this board is fucking embarassing honestly.

>>10827988
>history must be rewritten to fit my narrative of righteous sexual victimhood.

God, you people are insufferable.

>>10828061
>sexual victimhood

foucault wrote no such thing, try reading a book ur degenerate

>>10828069
>ur
I don't even care about your sexuality, I hate you just for this

>>10828069
Foucault also thought sex with children should be legal hmmm. I'm beginning to think the whole LGBT movement may in fact be some massive conspiracy directed at the normalization and sexualisation of children. These people operate like a shadowy cabal, raping with impunity and advancing their kind over others. That explains the utterly disproportionate influence they wield in academia and Hollywood

>thread about one of the most well known and important philosophers of last century.

>instantly descends into /pol/ shit-posting.

Christ. And this is easily one of the top 2 smartest boards on 4chan.

>>10828109
You are just pissed because white people are waking up to your PC narratives. Homosexuality has for all intents and puposes the state religion of the west, I'm like Galileo or Luther, one man standing up to the homo church.

How many sjw-faggots want to find in French philosophy thought anything for themselves. Miserable Foucault. Why does his theory have such pseudo-followers. I ask you: why you don't study Lacan's theory? I know: you afraid the phallus, which you haven't.

>>10828109
>Gays are still oppressed victims even if they control all major corporations

Sorry to contribute to this pyogenic shitheap of a thread but yeah Foucault, then Lee Edelman and Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick imo, for contemporary/posthumanist stuff Helen Hester and the Laboria Cuboniks gang are interesting

>>10828306
Thanks for an actual response anon

What *is* queer theory? What are the parameters of the field?

>>10827637
>>10827988

Don't you want to respond to >>10827684 and >>10827698 ?

>>10827137
>historicist views on human identity in general
Hegel

>>10828306
Who in their right mind would read 1000 pages of what amounts to 'I'm better and more progressive than you because I get fucked in the ass'?

>>10827698

>At page XII of Foxhall's work you will find a "confession of faith" where the author states her belief that contemporary issues inform all historical research.

But this is trivial. Of course it does. It's literally a prerequisite for understanding. Read Heidegger or Gadamer.

>>10828402
The difference being that they are looking for results to have a positive impact on contemporary issues; ie. they do not wish to create knowledge, but only social change. That would be fine, if they didn't pretend at the same time to work within academia and to be historians.

>>10827561
r/cringeanarchy is that way ---->

http://rhizomes.net/issue11/anderson/index.html
>The Force that Through the Wall Drives the Penis:
The Becomings and Desiring-Machines of Glory Hole Sex

Here's an enlightening read for you OP

>>10828412
And we must ask ourselves, what do these people mean by 'social change' what is their endgame? Their shrill politically correct activities are organized by a powerful cabal of 'queer theory' professors.

>>10828471
based
I also enjoyed the piece about the guy masturbating into the ocean while LARPing as a sponge

>>10828061

Who's the bigger baby here, left wingers pissed off because you're trying to derail the thread or right wingers who have to try and derail the thread because we're talking about something you don't like? You know, you lot make a lot of noise about snowflakes, but you're the biggest fucking snowflakes there are, you can't tolerate any subject that isn't right wing nonsense.

>>10828478

>what do these people mean by 'social change' what is their endgame?

People feeling its OK to explore who they are and not being horrible and ostracizing them because "they're different from me!"

>>10828538
If so why do they seem so focused in the indoctrination of children?

>>10828556

They aren't, its just your stupid conspiracy theories. Unless you consider helping young people who aren't straight to understand their feelings "indoctrination." You can't fucking make someone gay, only realize they are.

>>10828563
'Helping young people understand their feelings' how young exactly?

>>10828109
Second? Who's the first?

>>10828563
What makes you think sexuality cannot be socially influenced?

>>10828740

I don't think it can. You can't make someone straight be gay.

>>10828332
no these fucking people don’t want to argue, that’s why they hide under the ballsacks of faculty at unis. they’re don’t have anything to do with debate or knowledge, even discourse. Its like talking to a fascist, the more facts brought up the more upset they become

>>10828774
If you want honest debate you could start by taking your jackboot of our throats. The discourse of facto city is used to silence marginalized voices and maintain systems of oppression which literally get queer people killed

>>10828760
>autism can be induced by childhood trauma
>people can become fat hogs or spooky skeletons from childhood trauma
>people can become nymphomaniacs from childhood trauma
>people can desire to be the opposite sex due to childhood trauma
>NOBODY could POSSIBLY want to suck dick from childhood trauma

>>10828813

Being gay has nothing to do with trauma and its not a mental disease. Boys who raped by men as children don't grow up to gay because of the trauma. Being gay is not a mental defect, its just neuro-diversity. It doesn't ruin your life, its doesn't make you a bad person and it doesn't mean you can't have a great and fulfilled life.

>>10828813
Unless you've discovered the revolutionary new medical approach to cure homosexuality which isn't a collosal failure like all the previous ones, shut the fuck up and read up on contemporary research into the subject.

>>10828827
It's not a mental disease, most gays are just doing it either because it's Trendy or because they want to harvest virtue signaling brownie points on social media.

>>10828827
they do, men who get raped in prison a lot tend to end up “gay” where they were not before.
>being homosexual isn’t a mental defect
it is

>>10828809
The person you are talking to does not give a shit about the welfare of children, gay or straight, nor does he have the emotional intelligence to be emphatic enough to do so. He hasn't even read a thing on thing on the subject

He's a bitter, resentful loser that tries to compensate his insecurity by being 'morally superior' to other people: in this case, homosexuals. He's invested all his emotional energy into this task and has become a keyboard crusader.

>>10828839
>>10828840

Okay, well if you think that then you're clearly a brainwashed right winger and nothing is going to convince you otherwise. I mean never mind what medical experts and psychologists think, or what the peer reviewed literature says, lets just construct arm chair theories based on our prejudices and what Breitbart told us.

>>10827137
greeks

>>10827137
>queer theory

Nietzsche might be a good start.

>>10828532
Progressives are the toddlers, anon. Homo is literally a malfunction. I don't say that with malice, I just say what it is. If you perceive a personal attack in the fact of something being non-conducive to the reproductive faculties of the human species, then maybe you are the one who is harboring resentment.

>>10828849
>what medical experts and psychologists think
Nice authority argument, kid.
I wonder what they will think 100 years from now.

>>10828563
>it's just a c-conspiracy
>that doesn't happen!

>>10828909
>making a natural law argument
Lol

>>10828914
you guys literally repost the same 5-6 pics all the time.

>>10828909
not a smart way to argue, trapping the opponent in a proposition they can’t accept as the very basis of failure to communicate kills discourse and leaves them thinking you’re a stupid idealogue. if you want to look good, be more clever; if you want to convert people, be more aggressive in your pursuit of actual traps

>>10828923
That looks like one pic to me, anon.
Prove it.

>>10828918
>he argues by pointing out argument names
hmmm...anyways I'm glad that you bought into a marketed definition of sexuality. Yes yes you're gay/ally of those oppressed sexual minorities, now buy stuff that conforms to your new prefabricated lifestyle. You're a mean conservative old man if you don't accept what mainstream media tells you about sex!

>>10827137
>64 replies
>mfw not a single post even mentions the book

>>10828914
the public that are so triggered by this kind of shit seem like they probably got molested as a kid, why else would someone have extreme homophobia other than some priest hammered their asshole when they were eight

>>10827607
this isn't your personal safe-space, tumblr-chan. you make a thread, people call you a faggot. that's just the way it works around here.

whether OP made this thread thinking
>I want to indoctrinate myself into holding these views
or
>please affirm these beliefs I've already made up my mind about for me
or
>I'm going to pretend to be a bloody postmodern neomarxist to piss off /lit/
, this conversation isn't going to go down without people calling him out for either pretending to, or actually intending to want to waste his time on fucking Foucault of all people.
OP, if you really feel the need to read some french meme philosophers, Derrida can be fun at times, though if you haven't understood Hegel and Heidegger you'll just misinterpret what he's doing as 'deconstruction, deconstruction! differance is infinite so there's nothing outside of the text! u don't know nutting, everything is hierarchies.'.

>>10828935
whats interesting about this post is you're clearly sick to death, but what, I ask you, are you more or less sick to death of? Clearly you do not know whether you are coming or going and will have to weight a long time to find out, Plato would be disappointed and even the water is laughing at you again

>>10828925
I'm not trying to convert anyone. I just acknowledge certain truths. The biological imperative is to reproduce. We are to a certain degree free from our biological constrictions so you don't have to conform to natural laws and still succeed as an individual but that doesn't disqualify the fact that homosex is a literal malfunction. And that statement is not a lauding or a disparaging of any platform or politic, it just is.

>>10828964
getting a blowjob is a malfunction then too, fuck off "we must only have sex for procreation" puritanical faggots

i dont get why ppl this uptight come on 4chan

this place has become too stupid for me man, seeing these dumb threads by provincials who don't read is just turning me off

>>10829011
>i dont get why ppl this uptight come on 4chan

So they can feel morally superior to other people, which makes them better people. Meanwhile they jack off to fetish porn.

>>10829020
Same. There really is no reason to stick around here after getting the charts, some basic meme jokes about philosophers/authors, and I guess a bunch of reactionary books. I might be romanticising the past here, but I feel like at least some proper discussion threads happened on this board years ago, even about radical french thinkers. I'm seeing literally every thread get turned into /pol/ speaking points. It's high time to leave really. But what are some alternative places to discuss books? Should I tough it out with reddit?

>>10828914
This. It's incredible how they don't realize they are being manipulated by globalists in the media

>>10829075
>>10829020
Good. I want you shills off the board and back on reddit where you belong. We literate fashters will never accept your Jewish white guilt buttsex ideologies

>post inane comments in a blatant request/bait thread
>uptight goobers begin to wax on about how great /lit/ used to be before the damn right wingers got their hands on it, and how they'll have to start using reddit now
I might jack off to men but y'all are the real fags

>>10829011
OMG poor victim homos please pity them and feel guilty

I don't get why people so uptight come on 4chan

>>10829087
Why is it bait to ask for literature on a specific topic? What topics counts as not bait in your criteria?

>>10829011
you're making this far too easy by actually engaging with that argument on the basis the other anon established. getting a blowjob, among many other things, serves a social function as an intermediary stage between a non-sexual relationship and full-on intercourse. if we're arguing about evolutionary functionality, you're never going to convince anyone that being gay is no different from being straight, because it's just factually, empirically wrong.

why don't you try arguing for the benefits which being able to express your sexuality has, and making the case that we should be tolerant of peoples behavior, whether or not it's 'biologically viable', as long as it doesn't create more problems than it solves? is it because your sensibilities won't allow you to acknowledge facts when they feel discriminatory?

>>10829107
All threads are asking for book recommendations are bait, even if the OP didn't intend that.

>>10829011
Yeah that would be technically correct. Masturbation is also a malfunction. So where does that leave us? Waiting for the angry fappers to screech "oppression"? Or do you think that might be a bit of an immature overreaction :^)?

>>10827137
You should read Assuming a Body: Transgender and the Rhetorics of Materiality

>>10828847
Low quality bait

>>10829121
You want me to accept something about one group of people because you assume I accept it about the other group of people basically. WRONG. I don't want to hear about anyone's sexual escapades, and if that's the only characteristic they can draw their identity around, then that is a pretty shallow person; Chads, Stacys, and Elton Johns alike. You feel me?

>>10827304
>and I can tell you, even for their most renowned authors
in future, refrain from phrases like this, they out you as a pure sophist with no subject matter expertise and an ax to grind

>>10828563
There is no proof that being gay is genetic.

>>10828412
if your text is widely read, it is condemned to have social impact. authors who are honest about this fact are only being transparent about the material fact that educated readership often absorbs its politics from what it reads.

holy SHIT this thread got so far from the real topic.

>>10827137
if you're interested in reading Foucault, you're going to have to suspend your identitarianism, because it's part of a broader anthropocentric tendency in western thinking that foucault harshly criticizes. sexuality—queer included—is not anything central to human identity, but is a technology of power—it is used, deployed, propagated, and impressed upon bodies in order to control the subjects produced through that process. Foucault won't provide you ammunition for your arguments about the historicality of bourgeois heteronormativity. except on /pol/ and fox news, this is pretty much universally acknowledged. what you might want to wonder about with Foucault is where "queer identity" came from, how it is practiced in contemporary capitalism, and to what extent these practices are involved in the reproduction of the power relations that subjugate queer individuals. there is no sex-positivity in Foucault, don't be confused by his exploits in the san-fran gay 80s, nor by his "ethical turn" in the latter volumes of history of sexuality. his ever-present concern is how sex, discipline, and power control bodies.

>>10829353
I didn't mean to say that we should be encouraging the kind of hypersexual lifestyle you're critical of. Of course, a lot of the ((culture)) around people of non-standard sexual orientations revolves around their sexuality, and it tends to be played up as an unreasonably important aspect of who they are. That kind of development is definitely a problem. Arranging your entire life around your sexual pursuits is absolutely pathological, contrary to all the positive characterizations people come up with to excuse it (it's sexual liberation, free love, a sign of openness, etc.).
My argument is that, if you try to suppress people's sexuality because of the consequences of these excesses you are driving them into a corner and creating a situation in which not being sexually promiscuous is rightfully seen as submitting to the oppressive regime. The only real solution (outside of just murdering everyone who behaves in a way you deem to be immoral) is to create a culture in which sexual promiscuity isn't seen as as much of a marker of success. Once a social game in which sexuality isn't overvalued is established, people can have any sexual orientation they want, and you won't run into the problems we're dealing with right now.

You could easily do that by diverting money from symptom treatment to prevention, but in that situation a lot of people would jump on the government for no longer compensating for their stupidity.

>>10828951
>fag
>also atheist or gnostic
Day of the rope when?

>>10828951
If I'm triggered by milk was I raped by the dairy cow, the farmer, or the "Got Milk?" adxecutive?

>>10829087
I haven't jerked off to straight porn in weeks and yet I feel more homophobic than ever. Take that libtards.

>>10829365
lmao okay. Notice how, in this whole thread, I was the only one ready to actually discuss queer theory academic thought? Notice also how its most vocal proponents ITT have repeatedly ignored my calls to discuss it, rather wallowing in knee-jerk mud-throwing with brain-dead /pol/tards?

ITT: people that haven't read either theory discuss both theories based on feelings

>>10829381
Supporters of fag rights are illiterates who absorb their politics from buzzfeed listicles