/lit/ - Literature

>fiction is a spook
max stirner was a failed school teacher named johann schmidt.

>tfw people say you didn't exist

>>10801912
There is a large proportion of /lit/ that agrees with you.

Then there is the other, smaller yet vocal minority that spams Bible threads either as shitposts or as sheep to Jordan Peterson's weird take on the stories.

If you want to stop wasting time on it either filter them out or just don't reply. If a religious person starts arguing with you in a thread here they are either
a) Actually religious and therefore it's a waste of time to try and change their mind because they are deluded
or
b) They are shitposting, in which case they want you to get annoyed.

The only reasonable response to religious people is to ignore them.

>>10801912
who are "we"
and no, God is not fiction, there is no evidence that proofs God is fictional

>>10801971
>proofs
religious education pulling through once again.

>>10801955

/pol/ seems to have spilled into this board, hence all the catholic fedoralords and annoying christians

>>10801955
this, so much. the christfag minority are just really vocal

>>10801917

fuck off spook

>>10801955
>There is a large proportion of /lit/ that agrees with you
I thought everyone on this board was either catholic or agnostic

>>10801978
>using fedora.jpg to refute every atheist opinion

>>10801978

>>10801979
>the christfag minority are just really vocal
Honestly they deserve their turn at being obnoxious.

>>10801978
Yeah also this happens if you say anything anti-religion. I always find it pretty ironic, because only a massive fedora-tipper would save pictures of people in fedoras.

>>10801982
Nope.

>>10801989
They have had more than enough time being vocal.

The fool says in his heart, "There is no God."

>>10802015
but the wise says in his mind, "There is no God"

>>10801912

The study is indeed a spook.

>>10801912
What's annoying to me is that the term "God" has so many definitions which can confound discourse on the topic. "God" can simply be "the creator of the universe", but can also be "the creator who did these miracles and told us to do these things, father son holy spirit, amen". If someone believes in a "creator of the universe" I can understand that. If you make any notion to this creator's thoughts, beliefs, and intentions then I think less of you, because that's simply arbitrary human assumptions.

>>10802064
this is basically what most theologians do. They first argue for the prime mover, then once they set up God in principle they invoke their own religions into it. It's all just a sham to try to dupe people into their (abrahamic) dogma

Great idea for a containment thread.

Darwinism destroys any transcendent explanation/source of meaning, but we are still unable to accept it.
I submit that I am the same - I seek meaning from philosophy that is most likely not there,

The study of religion is a study on humanity, at no point does it matter if you are a believer or not in that sense.

Don't be a brainlet.

>>10802127
Darwinism doesn't explain why the processes and matter for Darwinian selection to occur exists in the first place. I.e why is there anything at all. Although I agree it's quite damning to religion.

>>10802127
>tfw I dually believe in Christianity and Darwinism

>>10801912
>metaphysics isn't real lmao
will all you brainlets just meet your maker already please good christ

Prove to me the law.
Good behavior is mostly natural inclination. But prove the law and erhics are anything but arbitrary. I know it can be done, but our current system is based on sacredness—globally.

>>10802179
See >>10802087

ITT: I haven't experienced God so he's not real but all these atheist philosophers are correct.

Hint: You have to be open to the experience of spirituality. You will not experience it and understand any Truth until you let go of your inhibitions towards it. There's a reason people have been writing the same things about God and the universe for centuries. Don't give up because it doesn't make sense to you or because your favorite philosopher said he's not real. The point is that you can't explain it with logic and you have to experience it yourself to know. That's why we can't prove to anyone that he's real. Anyone that is being sincere about God is likely speaking from experience. I am. I hope you can have the experience too. Get this whole "this is a spook, this is for small brains" blah blah out of your head. Don't approach God like another lit meme. This is life. Open up my friends!

>>10802179
How to read this post: Aristotelianism and Thomism are the only metaphysical systems I know of.

>>10802210
>There's a reason people have been writing the same things about God and the universe for centuries
Yes, people are dumb, scared, wanting to fit in, etc.
Just sit back and realize how pathetic your reasoning is. If you want to believe just do, but "lmao dude you really have to convince yourself you feel it bro otherwise it won't work lol" is laughable.

>>10801984
People should know already that the fedora meme is just a joke. I always kek when I see one but it doesn't damage the argument in any way.

>>10801912
>God is fiction
Go read Anslem's Proslogion. He covers the "fool" who denies the existence of God and shows how it's unthinkable.
>>10801955
>majority of /lit/ is retarded atheists
no we aren't, back to r9k

>>10802210
thanks for this post my man. I've been struggling to reconcile faith in God and a rational mind. Metaphysics is fine to think about, until it informs behavior with an aim to closeness to God. Reading your post and recalling my own mystical experiences of younger years I reckon I just need to let go a little. God is not beyond contradicting itself, and that seems to allow for more-than-rational choices.

>>10802197
I agree with that other anon, actually. Catechism is bullshit, starting with thoughtless statements of faith negotiated by ancients and learned by rote as a child, and ending with all the tomes of seminary. Draw the curtain back, however, and the bones of philosophy stand out. Even Mother Teresa doubted her faith.

>>10802236
I hope one day you will learn to know what you're talking about instead of proving yourself ignorant.

>>10802252
>majority of /lit/ is retarded atheists
>no we aren't, back to r9k
True, I'm a theist, polytheist that is. Atheists need to back the f off, brother.

>>10802264
>I hope one day you will learn to know what you're talking about instead of proving yourself ignorant.
Again, more empty words.

I had an extremely religious upbringing. All I remember is either people concinving themselves of a belief, or brainwashed people, who are a nuisance at best, dangerous at worst.

You simply have no argument other than "one day you'll start deluding yourself". You simply cannot understand that one may not fool themselves of thinking something they just do not approve of. Fitting of your position.

>>10801912
Everyone whose ideas should be paid any attention to has agreed on this for a while

>>10801984
>>10801986
>>10801991
i can smell your cheeto crusted fingers from here. i'm not even christian per se but this fedora meme gets so many (you)s. honestly pathetic desu.

>>10802252
*tips cross*

>>10801989
You mean thousands of years were not enough?

>>10802287
>i'm not even christian per se

>>10802315
*countertips

>>10802281
Your entire experience is reactionary. You are like an insect. The trauma of your upbringing has seemingly destroyed any intellectual curiosity for philosophy that borders on religion. I was raised in a similar environment, and was likewise disappointed in family and society in general for deluding themselves; they did not even realize that atonement with what they understood as God is a great personal endeavor and a search for truth, not a social or community gathering. The difference between me and you is I'm not afraid and have let go of my prejudice.

>"One day you'll start deluding yourself."
No. One day you may engage meaningfully with all of philosphy instead of allowing old grievances to shy you away. Your opening this thread and fedoraposting is a symptom of your ignorance and fear. Beat it, kid, men are talking.

>>10802210
>>10802264
But why mystifying all of this? what is the point?
Just do philosophy, that seems more conclusive than using gut feelings as a proof that your interpretation is right and accuse everyone who don't share them of bad faith.
To be honest, I doubt the whole "religious / spiritual thing" more than anything else in religion, from my perspective people who claim to have these REALLY seem to just believe in what make them good and I doubt that they have any actual insight.

>>10802349

I love the bible. I love it's place in the western canon. I'm also currently getting more into philosophy.

I don't believe it and I can't delude myself into doing so. My whole life I asked myself why this is so hard to understand, but it makes sense that the self deluded refuses themselves to understand, the same way they force themselves into believing.

>>10802264

Thanks a lot man it made me really happy to read that honestly I'm glad for you. I only started experiencing this stuff last year when I started getting into the occult. I fucked around with wicca and just bits of other shit for awhile before getting into hermetisism, sufism, and soon I'll be converting to Islam. The world is so much more beautiful for me now I used to be very anxious and misanthropic until I understood that I simply did not need to feel that way and was better off just loing people. Faith can be tricky man, I'm a huge logical thinker and didn't believe this shit until I did a spell and it worked and from there was a whole new world for me to start understanding. I hope you get to where you need to be because I know you're on the way!

>>10802281

Don't let that fool you. A lot of people you will grow up with in a religious setting may either not truly believe or you may have a hard time believing it because it's irrational. That's fully fine though, I went to Catholic school my whole life and was raised very Christian and didn't believe in any of it. I thought it was bullshit and I was an atheist/satanist. But once you start realizing that the analysis of life is not dependent wholly on logic, that you need intuition to understand the things that you cant rationalize, then you'll have an easier time understanding this, Insh'Allah.

>>10802358

Read my other reply to your post please because you sound like someone who isn't necessarily adverse to the path but you may just have a hard time understanding. There are books I can recommend you to put the occult into more logical terms.

>>10802358
>I don't believe it and I can't delude myself into doing so. My whole life I asked myself why this is so hard to understand, but it makes sense that the self deluded refuses themselves to understand, the same way they force themselves into believing.
so how do I take the bible seriously long enough to understand novels

>>10802369

Why wouldn't you take it seriously? Whether you believe in it or not, it's a GOAT work of literature, history, culture, etc.

>>10801919
Nobody seriously says that but existence aside, this doesn't create compelling evidence for numerous lofty claims surrounding the personage. And no, Bayesian analysis isn't going to cut it.

>>10801984
well, it seems to work well enough.

>>10802371
I'm talking about faith
I don't mean its literary merit
I'm talking about faith
What deeper meaning or reason to believe is there other than having a more stabler, virtuous society and community of likeminded people

I need to understand this in order to understand novels

Believing in God should be forbidden. All it could currently bring is a passing undeserved happiness from the implication that the world isn't heading to a chaotic end. But it is, and no amount of faith can change that.

>>10802463
>world isn't heading to a chaotic end.
Why would anyone care

>>10802026
The heart is the mind.

>>10802515
The heart isn't the mind.

>>10802505
To stop it?

You can’t prove he doesn’t exist to be fair. The fact that every civilization has thought of powers greater than themselves is pretty fascinating
> but honestly you christfags need to chill out with the Bible and religion posting

>>10802580
Why do I care about what happens to my progeny a few generations down

>>10802605
>You can’t prove he doesn’t exist to be fair.
the problem is that religious folk make positive claims and then hand the burden of proof on the skeptics who question that claim

>The fact that every civilization has thought of powers greater than themselves is pretty fascinating
the diversity of thought definitely is fascinating. But a thought nonetheless.

Daily reminder that all it would take for people to believe in God is a minor visit from St. Gabriel to a populated metropolis.
"You gotta open yourself up spiritually lmao" is extremely weak as an argument. If God wanted to communicate with us he has a million dorect ways to do it.

>>10801912
Just think of reading the Bible as a mythological study. It's significant and ever present in modern literature because it's been significant in the west, regardless of its truthfulness.

>>10802637

>thinking that God communicates in obvious ways
>what are symbols

I know it's not fair to make fun of people who don't get it but come on. Sorry but seriously just read more about the nature of God, spiritiuality, magick, etc. and you'll understand. But yes, you have to have an open mind to understand it. No, everything in the world that is real is not easily grasped with logic.

>>10802637
The true horror is, God has spoken to people before (according to the bible), so the "He's mute because free will" argument is invalid. So we're actually living under a God knows exactly what to say to convince us that he's real and explicitly choses not to do it, essentially dooming people for nothing.

Daily reminder that all it would take for people to believe in God is a minor visit from an archangel to a populated metropolis.
"You gotta open yourself up spiritually lmao" is extremely weak as an argument. If God wanted to communicate with us he has a million direct ways to do it, but doesn't. Even if you believe that the historical evidence, Church history etc. is sufficient to substantiate Christianity, just the amount of time it takes to go through it is more than most people can afford.

>>10801912
It's not so much asking is god real, but rather do we need god? And trannies make me think yes

>>10802656
so you're saying we should convert to Islam?

>>10802656
If we need god he sure as fuck doesn’t think the same. It’s easier to think he doesn’t exist rather than he’s ignoring us. Also just as a random rant, how the fuck is god going to give humans free will, knowing full well what human nature is, and then judge us for his actions?

>>10802656
I don't see how trannies have to do anything with the 'need' for a god (whatever that means)

>>10802670
uncle peterson said we need christianity or else we'll be arrested for mislabeling a tranny

>>10802678
>we need Christianity but we don't need to believe in God
Jordan Peterson is clearly retarded

>>10801912
God is the categorical (that is, non-structural) nature of the universe.

>>10801912
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, 8/christian/ has gone to shit and Christanons are looking for a place to discuss Christianity. /lit/, /his/, and /pol/ are pretty much the only places to discuss it. 4chan needs to create its own /christian/ board to contain it all

>>10802699
That’s pants on head retarded. Just because you want there to be meaning doesn’t mean there is. You can’t just chalk up the existence of the universe to a being that can’t even respond directly to questions asked by some random guy

>>10802606
Good question.
In the hopes they'll bring you back to life once the problem of death has been fixed.

>>10802634
>That comic.

Are you stuck in 2009?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1WHXclDTbE
heh

>>10802738
>reddit spacing

>>10802738
Are you implying the comic is outdated?

I know father Zeus exists in my heart :)

>>10802361
>I was a satanist
Wow, turns out you were irationnal the whole time. You may think you "converted back" into christianity but the truth of it is that you never changed.
Maybe its time for you to accept some people dont believe in any of that shit and that its not a phase like you thought you went through.

>>10802759
No. I'm implying that it is a crude caricature that undermines, rather than strengthens your position.

>>10802797

No, I think you've misread me. Satanism (Or at least laveyan) is pretty ego-driven and was fitting for me at a young age because I was incredibly narcissistic (which I believed contributed to my defiance of God). I wasn't irrational the whole time, please stop trying to assess me based on your prejudices about religion. I did not feel God when I was younger. Or at least I don't recall it, and because of that I did not have any understanding of the Truth and could not follow a religious path. Years later, when I actually learned how to have a spiritual experience I started getting back to Him. Typical "I was lost then found" story, I know they're corny but they're prevalent for a reason.

>>10802797
So.. you're saying he just needs faith in atheism and he will become a new man, made in the image of Richard Dawkins?

>>10802839
A lot of satanists also believe in magic and partake in conspiracy circles.

>>10801986
Gratitude Love Love Jesus Peacefulness Hope

>>10802815
If it is accurate then it doesn't undermine anyone's position.

Free will is a joke and there is most likely nothing after death. Accept it or dive into whatever religion comforts you the most. Personally, I find the usual conception of human free will to be abhorrent and terrifying so I'd much rather live in a deterministic universe.

>>10803008
>Personally, I find the usual conception of human free will to be abhorrent and terrifying
in what way exactly?

A deterministic Universe is still chaotic and unpredictable in the long term. That doesn't mean we have free will, but it also shouldn't be confused with a "determined" universe. Events aren't literally determined or "written down" anywhere, so we have no way of knowing the future, just guessing at it.

>>10803008
>Free will is a joke
>Accept it or dive into whatever religion comforts you the most
how can I accept it if I have no free will?

>>10801912
>This thread
The utter state of /lit/.

>>10802127

Not really, Darwinism - both the awful original idea and Modern Synthesis, which is somehow even worse - is congruent with things like Platonic Theology, Hegelian Theology, as well as explicitly intertwined with Christianity - as is most STEM - and even congruent with things like Biosemiotics, Memes, Singularities, simulation theories, etc.

>>10801912
this thread is a waste of time, fuck off

>>10803295
>>10803366
This thread and the discussions are pretty awful

>>10801912
No it's just like more complicated than that and you stemtards just don't understand, man. All your falsifiability and defining your terms just boggs down the one true truth of god. Ideas don't have to endure adult level scrutiny to be good, you just have to like them and repeat them long enough and point at some author who also liked them and repeated them alot.

>>10801955
The Christ meme is out of control

>>10801971
> Russell's teapot fallacy
Try again, theist brainlet

>>10804249
>God is an object in the universe
At least make a good faith effort to engage with the actual ideas you're trying to refute.

Still never heard any good refutation of the Thomist cosmological argument. God may be unprovable, but He's a damn good working hypothesis