/lit/ - Literature

>>10773394
Unironically, the Bible. I wouldn't like Hell at all; can't stand heat.

>>10773394
Le Mont Analogue

>>10773405
I'm OP. I've actually seen the movie called The Holy Mountain that's based on this book. My buddy showed it to me with a bunch of other weird movies by David Lynch and one called El Topo. I would not recommend them to someone who isn't prepared for some BIZARRE stuff, but I enjoyed them.
Thanks for sharing.

>>10773401
Interesting choice. I take it you're religious then?

>>10773435
Increasingly so, yes. My journey into learning of Christianity is very much being beneficial to my life and mental well-being.

For me it would be Walden. I've loved that book since college. I've visited Walden Pond three times over the past 3 years.
The prose is nice, and although there are rumors he went into town frequently, I admire his attempt at a rustic lifestyle.
One thing I've spent time thinking about is at the end of his life, when asked if he made his peace with God, he replied, "I was not aware we had ever quarreled". Some could see it as sacrilegious, but maybe it was a statement from someone who had loved God and his natural creation all his life.

>>10773394
Nothing, I'd go and enjoy as many seconds of life I have, taking everything in

>>10773394
The Hobbit/LotR because when I was a kid I used to read them before bed and dream I was a part of their world. I want those dreams to last forever

>>10774049
So reading isn't part of enjoying your life? Or you would do things you think are more valuable and stimulating that reading?

>>10773640
What about it? I'm going to die soon from a brain tumor, so I don't have very long to live anyway. That's the main reason I'm going to Alaska, so I won't have to waste away or get surgery that will more than likely leave me without the ability to function in society.

My family is deeply religious and they've tried to get me to turn to God for help and guidance, I believe in the hopes to get me to go through the surgery to get the tumor removed. I just can't. I don't believe there's any higher power and this is the only life we get. What made you believe?

It would probably be something short, comfy, and full of melancholy:
Of Mice and Men
The Old Man and the Sea
The Dead

>>10774032
That sounds so nice, to feel at home and peace with a higher power. I feel at peace with my decisions, but I have lingering anxiety about being stopped before I can leave for Alaska. Or dying on the way there in a car crash or even a tornado or something bizarre and off the wall like that.
I never knew that about Thoreau. Thanks for the story.
+1 karma for you anon

>>10775825
Of Mice and Men I can see being popular. Lenny dies at the end happy as a clam. But we and George see the other side of things, the real world, the cruelty and unfairness of it all. It's kathartic.

>>10773394
I would read Chika Sagawa`s collected works again. Or maybe Kafka on the shore or South of the border west of the sun. I know they are Murakami meme books but his books really impacted my life. After reading them I ended up getting into modern Japanese literature and then I wanted to learn Japanese after reading Mishima. Here I am a few years later living and working in Japan studying modern literature. The combination of kafkaesque situations plus Japanese traditional motifs, shinto symbolism, and Japanese 1920s surrealism totally changed my artistic preferences.
Chika sagawa actually died at the age of 23 from stomach cancer, I think one day I wish to die in Hokkaido in the snow under a tree in the late winter

>>10775899
I hope you get your peaceful end, anon. I'm glad to hear you followed your interests and they led you to something good. I hope that I'll be able to find peace beneath a tree in Alaska with my favorite book and a bookmark of my daughter's picture. Someone recommended Seneca to me before I go. Would you recommend Sagawa? And if so, what works? I'll have some definite time to kill on the road while I take breaks to rest and relax so I'm not driving for sixteen hours a day.

>>10775970
only a collection of her poems were published after she died. here is a pdf of the english translation. There is a book on amazon of them and more, including her diary of the last week before she died. Really amazing stuff for me at least. The poem May Ribbon is my favorite
http://mokuroku.biwako.shiga-u.ac.jp/WP/No192.pdf

>>10773401
stupid
>>10773394
Cases in Comparative Politics

>>10775835
Are you going somewhere that you'll be able to see the northern lights? That's how I would want to go. Maybe finish my book during the day and watch the lights at night until my eyes shut.
I've never thought about my last book but it's an interesting question. The end of The Recognitions is nice and bittersweet but the rest of the book is probably too crushing. Siddhartha is rather uplifting at the end. Some other anon mentioned The Dead, and Dubliners and Ulysses might be pretty basic answers for this place but I think both would be excellent choices. I have a lot of good memories with Ulysses.

>>10775811
There's a joke that comes to mind; a Christian in a storm falls overboard with his life vest but the vessel he was on didn't see it and didn't hear him in the storm so sailed away. He's floating there in the middle of all the chaos and another ship spots him. They shout at him that they can help him in but he replies "no thanks, it's ok, God will save me!" So they sail off. Another boat comes, the storm getting worse, it looks as though it's about to capsize too but so far remains upright, they tell him to grab their lifesaver so they can pull him onto the boat, but he denies, saying "no thanks, it's ok, God will save me!" The boat sails off for the nearest harbour they can find.

So the Christian drowns, and upon finding himself at the pearly gates before God, he asks "Lord, why didn't you save me?" God replies, "I sent you two boats!"

The schism between science and Christianity is very unfortunate, and I don't believe it's necessary for it to be there. After all, to my knowledge the majority of Nobel prize winners were Christian, and the majority of inventions of the past millennium were likely developed by Christians. It only makes statistical sense, considering the HUGE number of Christians there are in the world, not to mention the fact that pretty much all of the oldest Colleges and Universities were founded by Christians who sought to better understand this world that God had created. So if your story is true, it's ultimately up to you. You can turn to medicine and surgery if you think it offers the best chance of your survival, or you can turn to peace and prayer to hope for a more holistic cure, but it sounds like you're not going for either. It sounds like you've accepted your fate, more-or-less, whatever that fate should be.

I guess I could sum it up as don't be that guy at the pearly gates asking why God didn't save you, only to end up hearing Him say "have you SEEN all the medical shit I've provided you people over the centuries?! Take a hint!"

>>10775811
OP, for what it’s worth I have a friend who had a brain tumor. He had experimental surgery, not knowing if he would make it through the operation, but it worked and he was the first patient to successfully receive the procedure. If you’ve made your peace I won’t try to dissuade you, but if medical professionals are floating the idea of some sort of surgery I wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand.
I hope you live your next few weeks to the fullest, regardless of what comes next.

>>10773394
I would re-read watership down. It has been my favourite book sinds childhood, extremely comfy. Can't think of a better book to end with since (spoiler) that book ends with death as well. Also sincei t made me fall in love with literature as a kid it would kind of be nice to come full circle and read it as my last.

>>10773394
God bless you, I'm sorry to hear your pain,

>>10773394
For me my last book would simply be what I was currently reading at the time. I don't like the idea of a "prepared" or "elegant" or "poetic" death. Somehow it strikes me as posing. I'd rather appear to be accosted in the middle of something.

>>10773394
Why put off the inevitable, just read a book, do something you couldn't get away with when alive and end it.

As I Lay Dying

>>10773394
It would be my journal, recording my thoughts as I explore a new place for the very last time.
I'm an ecologist you see.

>>10773394
Rimbaud Illuminatuon or Prometheus Unbound

>>10775314
Good post.

m-my diary... desu ;___;

>>10773435
What's that quote on the picture from?

>>10773394
Finnegans Wake, because I'd never finish.

>>10773394
Plato’s Phaedo. Knowing about the immortality of the soul can improve your soul’s conditions after its time in the body

>>10780919
Plato was just Christ's first visit to the earth, before the established canon of monotheism. He sowed seeds, though. Third time's the charm. *wink*

>>10773394
>goes out to Alaskan wilderness
>finally walking out in the snowy tundra with book wrapped in arm
>feeling a bit autistic by this point
>"brrrr... i need to find somewhere to sit..."
>find a black, icy log from a dead tree to sit on
>rub the snow off but ass gets all wet when sit down regardless
>"o-ok i guess i start reading now..."
>pull book out
>fumble awkwardly with the pages in bulky cold weather gloves
>snowdrops landing making the pages all damp
>starting to think this was a bad idea
>struggling to concentrate
>keep tearing soggy pages by accident
>trying to remember why i came out to this shithole in the first place
>this book doesn't seem very profound anyway
>i don't even think it's about Alaska

>>10773394

Unironically, I would reread the genre fiction and fanfictions I loved when I was a teenager. Death brings forth in me a desire to set myself in order. To do so imply remembering all of my good times. To tell me my time on earth had worthwhile personal moments.

The bible otherwise.

I can't say I understand your position, but my empathy goes to you. I hope you can find solace in the wild and in your last days. Stay stronk, anon.

the tartar steppe. Fantastic book about facing death

>>10781044
This, i would probably read the fantasy books again which i read as a teenager when i really got into reading.

World as Will and Representation. I would like to go out with my man Schoppy.

Not sure if this should be your last book but you should read Into the Wild

>anons who say the Bible

>>10773430
ayyy, Jodorowsky is pretty good. A bit too bizarre for me to enjoy, but I appreciate his turning spaghetti westerns inside out. If you enjoyed that, you might also like Paris, Texas. stars Harry Dean Stanton. I love that movie, and most other Wim Wenders (Until The End of the World, City of Angels). And as long as we're talking /tv/, I'm rewatching Ken Burns The Civil War. The waste of life is incredible, but the sacrifice on both sides is heroic. Recommended.

>>10773394
Last book I would read before dying would be Plotinus' Enneads, because it convinced me to faith in God. And by God I mean an unknowable, a first principle that we can only surmise is highest (simplest, most ineffable) good. Especially this segment: http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/The_beautiful.htm

Thanks for making good on your promise, OP. I was looking forward to you posting again.

>>10777826
underfuckingrated

>>10777702
+++++
Exactly what I thought

> tfw you will most likely die either being unable to read or die while halfway through a good book

Lord of the Rings

>>10782474
The thought of dying before finishing a book saddens me

>>10775314
LoTR is what i too would want to re-read. I remember my dad took me to watch LOTR: Fellowship of the ring, on the first day it came out in the cinema. And from then on as a child i fell in love.
A week later he came home from work with the triology set and i devoured them.
Tolkien's world is my "safe-place", i can pick up the book and remember my childhood and those moments i cherished so much.

I would also read: To kill a mockingbird (that book just evoked such a powerful feeling within me when I read it as a child).

OP god bless you, there is no right nor wrong book to do, just like there is no right nor wrong approach to dying. I wish for you tranquility of the mind and peace

Anon a week ago I asked you not to go through with this and I'll ask you again.
Please just breathe and live.
Get that surgery done don't throw everything away.

>>10773394
All the best, OP. I hope you go comfortably and peacefully.

I don't know what my last book would be to read, I probably don't have that kind of foresight to plan that way ahead. I think I would want something that left me feeling warm and comforted, appreciating life. I'd probably want to read Don Quixote or Les Miserables again if I had the time - those books made me feel very emotional and immensely appreciative of what I have in life.

I'm huge for films too so I would need a last film. I've always thought Kurosawa's Ikiru would be a nice way to go.

Please post another thread before you go sharing with us your last book.

<3

>>10773394
The Bible, in Latin.

>>10773394
The Death of Ivan Ilyich. Maybe Anna Karenina too, to remind yourself that you'll die a hapless virgin.

Surely it would be Plato's Phaedo and Spinoza's Ethics. The two books which fill the soul with strength, peace and διkή the most. A philosopher dies happy and serene.

>>10773394
definitely Faust

>>10782704
>reading translations

>>10773394
If I could pick just one, Ulysses. I find joy in every page of Ulysses. Each page can make me go off on a tangent in my mind.

In Search of Lost Time is similar. If I had enough time to read a stack of books I'd pick Ulysses, ISOLT, TBK, and some short stories

>>10782815
it's what the pope does

>>10782959
>Implying Francis would ever celebrate a Latin mass

>>10773394
For me I'd have to say it'd be the original Mass Effect Trilogy of books, I know compared to some of the other choices of literature my choice seems pretty basic but those would be my ideal way to reminisce the summers I spent in my garden reading those books and listening to trees and the birds.

Also since having loved the whole science fiction genre since I was a boy re-reading that trilogy would be my ideal mental plane to return to reflect on my younger years of life.

>>10782708
He had a daughter nigger

>>10773394
from a depressed person who can't seem to believe in god: Siddhartha by Hermann Hesse

>>10773394
Do as he did who know sits outside the gates of purgatory. Read the Phaedo

>>10780919
>>10780927
Don’t be like these guys though

>>10773394
I guess I’d read the dialogue Socrates had with his students before he drank poison and died. He argues why he doesn’t think death is the end.

>>10775825

>The Dead

I got upset all over again just reading that fucking title.

Where in AK are you planning on playing out the clock?

>>10781009
I'm taking a bottlefull of sedatives so I can just fall asleep reading. Alaska is great in the spring, cold yes, but not icy and forlorn.

>>10781044
OP here. My choice too is from my childhood. My daughter loved it too even though she couldn't understand many of the longer words.

>>10780890
I have no idea what it's from, but I like it. Your life may be entirely shielded from another's. You may pass by hundreds of moths in a day, perhaps thousands if you live in a city, and never realize that you are missing an act of someone's life being played out. You are glimpsing into someone else's life, but you are blind to it.
It's very thought-provoking for me.

>>10782443
Can I find Paris, Texas online easily? I don't have a lot of time between work and prep for Alaska, so if it's not easily accessible I may just have to skip it for another life, if there is one.
Interesting book choice. And you're welcome, anon. Thank you for posting and contributing to the thread. It's a long road ahead, but at least I can carry the goodwill of my faceless comrades forward with me.

>>10784769
install qbittorrent. google tpb, feel lucky, click on a link, search for it by title. click on magnet link.

or purchase/rent from a streaming service. a*azon probably has it.

>>10773394
The Brothers Karamazov, without a doubt

bump for op.

>>10784819
Thanks anon.
+1 karma for you

>>10785393
OP is still here. And he thanks you for your bump. Any idea what you'd read last in life though, just to stay on topic?

>>10784389
I really haven't thought about it. I'm waiting on my passport to get back so I can drive through Canada to get to Alaska by land. Taking the ferry just seems like too much of a hassle and I have an irrational fear of drowning, so land or air it is. Land is far cheaper and gives me the opportunity to go sightseeing across America before I leave on my last trek into the spring wilderness. I'll probably just drive until I hit the end of a road and then hoof it for a day or two with all my camping gear until I find a good spot. Camp for a night, enjoy the wilderness, the night, the freedom, then walk as far as I can into the wilderness in half a day, sit down, stuff as big a handful of sedatives into my mouth as I can, and read until I'm unconscious.
If any anons from the last thread are here, I'm thinking about ordering a stuffed deer toy to take with me and naming it Sunstag, in the same vein as Claire's favorite toy Starbuck. Thoughts on that?

>>10785584
I've already answered with Plotinus. But some of these answers are comfy af. Especially reading a childhood favorite like Tolkien; going off to Helm's Deep one last time, riding with the Rohirrim, and diminishing into the west. I'd be set.

>>10785575
thanks for the silver my man. have a song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZmxZThb084

>>10785608
oh man you need a passport? I thought you just had to tell customs you were driving up to Alaska. Taking the ALCAN highway? Freiburger and Finnegan took an old Ranchero up that way once, was fun to watch but I'd want a heater.

>>10785773
I was told and looked up that you need a passport, apparently you used to just be able to get by by the strength of your handshake and genuine word, but since the election in November apparently this isn't enough anymore. So I've heard, anyway.
I got a passport just to make sure. It should be here soonish, definitely within the next two weeks. I'll be set to go in a week and after that it will just be waiting for Claire's birthday so I can place some flowers on her grave, say my goodbyes, and head off for whatever waits for me across America.

As a side note, March 20th is Claire's birthday and I chose to leave for Alaska on that day because I am a sucker for lining things up for impact. It feels good to start the rest of my life on the same day hers started. Poetic, even though it's sort of not because it's so contrived. Even so, feels right in a way.
Glad to see you're still with me on /lit/, anon.

>>10786075
It wasn't from the election. That's been a thing since the 9/11 era. Also they won't let you in with a criminal record of any kind.

>>10786090
That's pretty steep.

Bumping for op

Bumping for OP +2

A significant thing that every human being has to do is to structure their psychological and emotional framework around the most fundamental fact of their life – their mortality. Only when you do this will you naturally become eligible for a spiritual process, to a dimension beyond the mundane. The nature of your logicalmindis such that it would like to eliminate death completely from its scope of thought. This is why most people are structuring their psychological process around a nonsensical idea of immortality – as if they are forever. Every day, there is no reminder in their thought that this is a limited amount of time and that you are just a baton carrier from the previous generation to the next. Right now, it takes a lifetime for people to understand that they are mortal. They need a heart attack or the appearance of a malignant lump somewhere to remind them.

>>10773394
Moby-Dick... or maybe just the chapter about queequeg getting sick.

>>10780919
>Knowing about the immortality of the soul can improve your soul’s conditions after its time in the body

>>10788531
>He thinks that's incorrect.

>>10773394
If I were in your shoes, whatever the most readily available literature on the kind of brain tumor I had happened to be.

In my case, I suppose it would probably be a tie between the Lost Songs of Merlin, since that is the book that ignited my passion for reading. Not so much because of the book itself, but because of how much I wanted to know more about the Arthurian legend, and where that search for knowledge led me into becoming someone who strives to be skeptical and analytical; or the first (and coincidentally last) story I ever wrote that I actually felt I completed.

Of course, that's assuming I could tear myself away from my family. I don't think I could do that. I might read with them, aloud, though. Especially if I chose the second option; reading aloud my 13 year-old self's idea of what good writing was to my wife and friends would be pretty great, especially considering it was 50% my trying to explain how multi-universes worked according to my understanding so I could justify the existence of a unified anime setting, and 50% a self-professed "emo" kid's unified anime setting with a 100% OC DONUT STEEL Gary Stu self-insert main character.

Honestly, probably a Harry Potter book, or the whole series if possible
I read through them all one summer when I was younger and that's what got me into reading. I've never been as captured by a book as I was then, I was totally in another world when I read through them. I'd read them every chance I could get, I think I finished one of the books in a day and a half.
I had this chapstick I used all the time while reading them, so now whenever I smell that scent I get taken back to it, I have such heavy nostalgia for that time.
I recognize now they're poorly written, and not the best books I've ever read, but in my last moments I'd want to read them. Just to try and take me back to that one summer

Bump

>>10776661
>There's a joke that comes to mind; a Christian in a storm falls overboard with his life vest but the vessel he was on didn't see it and didn't hear him in the storm so sailed away. He's floating there in the middle of all the chaos and another ship spots him. They shout at him that they can help him in but he replies "no thanks, it's ok, God will save me!" So they sail off. Another boat comes, the storm getting worse, it looks as though it's about to capsize too but so far remains upright, they tell him to grab their lifesaver so they can pull him onto the boat, but he denies, saying "no thanks, it's ok, God will save me!" The boat sails off for the nearest harbour they can find.

So the Christian drowns, and upon finding himself at the pearly gates before God, he asks "Lord, why didn't you save me?" God replies, "I sent you two boats!"

I love this story. Thanks for sharing.

I take this a re-readability question, which for me is an easy answer: Moby Dick.

>>10789017
Glad you enjoyed the story, can't remember where I'd heard it from but it stuck with me. I specialize in things that are a bit darker but anyways if you'd like more stories to read then you can check out the stuff I've self-published. Might be getting traditionally-published sometime, which would be AWESOME, we'll see what they think of my short story. What I've self-published are all novelette-novel length, pretty much. Anyways the link is below if you'd like to have a look. Quite a few of them are only 99 cents US. Most expensive one is $3.99 US but it's the fifth and most recent installment of my zombie survival series.

www.amazon.com/author/jnmorgan

>>10776086
I don't think I'll be able to see the Northern Lights. I haven't done a lot of research for the ranges you can see them at, but if I'm to understand what little I do know, there has to be a pretty specific set of circumstances for them to appear at all. That would be nice, but I doubt I will be able to.

>>10776661
OP here. I love that joke. My dad used to tell it with a ton of finesse and make it absolutely hilarious in his own way.
I don't see myself as some kind of fedora-tipping atheist. I just don't believe there is a higher power. That's not to say that I don't reserve judgment on whether or not one COULD exist. There are few absolutes and I am not absolutely sure there isn't a god out there. I may not believe, but absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. But you can make your own conclusions about how to run your life in the absence of evidence.
If there is a God and I do manage to get to the pearly gates, I don't think I'll care much about actually having died. I'll beg to tell my daughter how much I love her and that she was the greatest human being in my life. I miss her more than anything.

If God exists, then he is cruel. He may love us, but He is a very sadistic ruler. Not to trash Christians or religious people in general, but all the evidence points to a higher power being incapable of preventing evil and suffering or willingly perpetuating it for some reason. It still confuses me how people can say it was God's will for Claire to die at the age of four.

Damn, imagine being in that summit. The view and only the wind's sound would be amazing

>>10776770
Thanks. I'm glad your friend is doing well and things turned out alright for him. If I wasn't guaranteed to lose some brain function, I would probably have no issue with the surgery. If every single step were to go unrealistically well, then I'd be only marginally affected. However, there is around an 85% chance that if I got the surgery that I would be left with an IQ of something like 79, which is just unacceptable for me. Most of my higher-order thinking skills would be halved, if not reduced to almost non-functioning levels. I'm not willing to risk losing who I am without a good reason. My daughter Claire was that reason, the only one, really. With her death in September, I've really got nothing else to try for. I'd rather die understanding myself and the world and my circumstances than live possibly eighty more years as a mental child. That is not a life worth living.

I don't think life is about living it fully. You can fill your life with lots of things that don't make you happy, experiences you don't value. Living it well and enjoying it is key, I think, to living it at all. Doing what you like to, no matter how small or how grandiose, Thank you for your post. It made me gain a little more insight into myself.
+1 karma for you

>>10777686
Life is full of it. You learn from it and it shapes you. It allows you to produce the strength of character to shape yourself afterwards. Pain is essential to living and becoming a "good" person, whatever you may intemperate goodness as.
+1 karma for you.

>>10777812
I'd rather not be a cunt with my last earthly decision, to be quite honest. Causing people inconvenience or grief and them potentially having them watch me die is not dignified or reputable.

>>10777871
Interesting. I never thought of creating anything as my last action. That is actually pretty inspiring. Maybe I should create a visual record of my journey so when someone does eventually find me they'll at least have the path I followed into the end?

>>10782525
I won't live as half a man. I appreciate your concern, but just breathing and living isn't enough for me. The idea of becoming Charlie Gordon and knowing that I once was more than I am and that I will never be able to be that man again scares me terribly. It is probably one of my biggest fears in life after reading Flowers for Algernon. Right after the fear of drowning.

I don't consider myself to be throwing away anything. I would have gotten the surgery for Claire without a second thought to my own outcome, but now the board is set with different pieces. I will either die a slow and undignified death due to tumor growth crowding out my neural pathways and causing my brain to lose cohesion and processing power, or get surgery and be a stunted shadow of myself for the rest of what will probably be a long life.

I choose to die with dignity. On my own terms. In my own time. With my own decisions blazing the trail into whatever comes next. Life is not precious. Life is what you make of it. And I am going to make mine worthwhile, no matter how short it may end up being in the long run.
I'm going to drive to a place that I have had dreams about taking my former girlfriend and my daughter, explore the wilderness at the edge of the world, find a place I find suitable enough to die at, read my favorite book, and die as I please. I regret nothing. I will regret nothing when the time comes. I have chosen to make a decision for myself. Nobody can take that away from me. Not my family. Not my job. Not my state or government. Not even my brain tumor.

>>10782531
I'll share my book in the last thread I make before I go. /lit/ will have a field day with it, but that's to be expected. Everyone's book choices are objectively shit, according to general consensus.
I've never seen Ikiru, but I absolutely love Seven Samurai. It would probably be among the last movies I would watch were I to make that list. Hell, I may just watch it anyway in the next couple of weeks before I head out. Thanks for reminding me, anon.
+1 karma for you

>>10783026
I hold no judgment for what people choose. If it means more to you than something academically acclaimed, then I think that's great. Not everything made of gold is valuable. A gold bar can't feed you. A potato can.
Plato is dry and boring for the most part. Sanderson's fantasy novels are fun to read. This does not make either better than the other, only different. You can learn a lot about the type of man you want to be by reading about how people who don't exist present themselves and direct their lives and efforts.

>>10782708
Can confirm that I'm not a virgin. Claire's proof, unless Jennifer was unbelievably good at lying, which I sincerely doubt. Claire got her pitifully bad poker face from her mother.

>>10773394
Fuck reading a book, I'd frantically write an autobiography or take a shitload of drugs and explode my heart writing some sort of Beatvian epic.

Death of Ivan Ilyich

>>10791590
I love that picture for its isolated feel. It's an exposure to everything, the cosmos, the upper limit of the planet, the stars. And yet, there's no life there; it's all just hanging in the distance and surrounded by clouds. It's peaceful and forlorn.

>>10791575
Sounds like you're essentially an agnostic; you don't believe in any particular God but you're open to the concept of one existing. Anyhow my journey into Christianity has been... I think you could say, critical. I take a small New Testament with me in my jacket pocket whenever I leave home, I'm very annoyed when I forget it, but I've been reading it pretty faithfully. Right now I'm on Roman, which seems to be quite interesting. I had been reading Luke but I was finding some friction. Firstly, Christ was CLEARLY far more kind and forgiving and generous than I could ever be though really I shouldn't be surprised at that. The description of such was also smacking of socialism in my modern view so I left Luke alone; I'll get back to it some other time once I've probably discussed the matter with a pastor.

As for God being cruel or sadistic or simply uncaring, I believe it to be important to realize that we have free will, and God will not take that away from us, for better or worse. What's the point in sending his Son to die for our sins and encourage us to live good lives if He just sapped us of our free will in the end and made it so we can be nothing BUT good? In the end it must be OUR choice. Human beings are capable of terrible evil, ALL of us, every last one. It's our duty to resist the temptations so as to be a small beacon of order in a world of chaos. That said, could God theoretically snap His fingers to make all murder, all rape, all divorces, and all hateful discrimination just disappear? Of course, He can do anything, but then there's no value in being good. Diamonds are valuable, but if everyone on the planet had all the diamonds that they could ever want then they become worthless, no more valuable than dirt itself. In short, the modern aspect of economics; supply and demand.

Sadly the world will never be a perfect one, there will always be evil people wishing to do evil things, and there will be suffering in life. People will get sick, people will have accidents, people will die, and WE will die. While we're here, all we can do is to try and make the experience good not just for ourselves, but for others too, to some degree. A smile on the street, generosity when it can be afforded, help when it can be provided, and so on and so forth. Bad things will still happen, but in the face of them we must try to keep control of ourselves to try and do the right thing. I see the teachings of the Bible from a utilitarian standpoint. You may only marry once and must not commit adultery. Why? Well we can see the statistics that show that it maximizes the chances of the couple and the couple's children to have successful long-term lives. Why should you seek to forgive? Well if you carry grudges for everything, it makes life a lot more difficult and hateful. There's some forgiveness that I must try to give to people who have wronged me TERRIBLY, I'm not ready, but I know my mind won't be so heavy once I'm able to give such forgiveness.

>>10792024
Don't steal, don't commit adultery, don't murder, and I've also yet to find anything in the Bible that tells Christians to distrust or ESPECIALLY to kill those who are not Christians. This is in stark contrast to the Quran of Islamic faith, which regularly tells Muslims not to trust Christians or Jews (especially Jews), don't take Christians and Jews as allies, polytheists are unclean (believers in multiple Gods, like Hindus or Vikings or Wiccans), and it also regularly tells Muslims to fight in the name of Allah. In the New Testament, Christ talks of coming to the world, not with peace, but with a sword. To my understanding the context of this was that they were under persecution at this time from the Romans and that they might seek out to find them and stop their preachings. He wasn't calling for actual violence, but that if any family members should be potentially seeking to expose them to the Romans then it would be best to abandon them to continue to do God's work. That's my current understanding but I've yet to read the whole book of Matthew which I think is the section of the New Testament that it's in so I'm probably still lacking some context.

What's clear, however, is that Jesus was a thoroughly peaceful man. Quite literally a hardcore hippy from the 1st century. To my understanding the Christians of the first 300 years or so after Christ were hardcore pacifists who died in droves due to persecution against them, but they did not fight back. They sought to live as Christ did, peacefully sharing His teachings, and how is it that Christ died? He was executed, sentenced to death by Pilate, sentenced to die in likely one of the slowest and most excruciating methods available; crucifixion. Nailed to a cross and left to hang in the air in the face of all the elements, in the heat and Sun of the middle east, and so you may die as you may but it will not be quick. Anything but quick. Christ suffered, but raised a hand to nobody. I doubt I'll ever be so pacifist as that, but it's an admirable thing to teach, and it seems to me that fundamentally the purpose of the Bible is to help teach people to live as Christ did. When you boil it right down, that's pretty much the message, explaining how and why you should do so, and I think it's a good message. As far as I'm concerned, it seems to me that Jesus Christ was the greatest man to ever live, and if more people lived like him then the world would be a far better place.

Of course, the Bible is open to interpretation, there's many different ways to interpret various aspects of it, so you can draw your own conclusions if you decide to check it out. Just to start, in case you didn't know, the Old Testament is from hundreds of years before Christ, an essential part of Judaism, and it speaks of a messiah or prophet to come and sort of 'finish the story'. In short, it speaks of Christ's arrival, and then after His incredible life and death and resurrection, the New Testament came about.

>>10792053
The New Testament supersedes the Old Testament, not just in chronological terms but in importance, meaning if parts of the New conflicts with parts of the Old (and it does happen pretty frequently), then you go with the New. Islam has a similar rule; if passages later in the Quran conflicts with older passages (and it does happen to some extent) then the newer passages must be obeyed, which is quite unfortunate because later in the book is a lot more violent and warmongering than earlier in the book. Anyways, I asked an Anglican pastor what the best method of studying the Bible is, and he said that the Old Testament can be pretty tough to get through sometimes so start with the New. Read that, and THEN read the Old Testament through the lens of Jesus Christ and His teachings. If you merely look to Chapter 20 of Leviticus you will find passage after passage detailing why and how you may put people to death for different reasons, including cases of incest, bestiality, and homosexuality. It even talks of stoning people. What did Christ say though? "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone", and thus with that statement alone it renders the passages of the Old Testament calling to put people to death essentially obsolete.

I believe this is why Christians today no longer persecute homosexuals. Yes even in recent history in the 50s and 60s, homosexuality had been illegal in the UK in spite of it being by far a Christian-majority nation, but if it weren't for Christ's teachings altering what's in the Old Testament then there wouldn't be so many Christians today who are for LGBT rights. If Christ were alive today He'd probably preach against homosexuality but most CERTAINLY would not call for their deaths. Once more, look at it from a utilitarian standpoint. I do find some males to be sexually attractive, it's just a fact, so with some of the more feminine/meek males I do have some degree of temptation for homosexual acts. So, what would happen if I gave into that, well let's first put aside the fact that the VAST majority of cases of HIV/AIDS spreading is from homosexual acts, what gives me the best opportunity for long-term success and happiness? A wife, because I wish to be a father and to have children. If I should die without having children, I would see it as a personal failure. Not only that but many homosexuals have spoken of how painful it is that they find people they love in the same gender and thus are incapable of having children with that person they love. It's quite tragic, truly, but thankfully I prefer women over men so it's easier for me to make that choice of gender rather than being stuck with the same gender.

From a utilitarian standpoint, I do believe that Christian teachings can very much improve one's quality of life. As for my views of LGBT, let them do as they want, even let them marry if they want since marriage has been made essentially meaningless by the 2nd wave feminist movement.

>>10780890
>>10784736
I recognized this quote immediately. It's from a Loren Eiseley essay, I think The Inner Galaxy. You should read it.

>>10791575
>all the evidence points to a higher power being incapable of preventing evil and suffering or willingly perpetuating it
Precisely. Best as I can tell, God as creator or first principle is typically understood to be infinite (in other words, omnipotent/omnipresent). It seems natural to me that something so inhuman, so inscrutable could hold conflicting judgments or be an agency at odds with itself. Certainly beyond the understanding of a mortal's perspective.