/lit/ - Literature

>>10769190
>Peterson hates postmodernism
no

>>10769190
I don't like Pynchon but only because his writing isn't very good

>>10769197
depends on if you like peterson at the same time, in which case you are a pleb. If you hate both then cool.

>>10769195

>>10769190
> postmodernism is modernism but ironic
> he still thinks it’s fucking agenda garbage

>>10769197
>>10769210
I'll never get this "Pynchon is a bad writer" meme. I just think you idiots got frustrated by not even trying with his work. You got to the first dense section and gave up... and now you have to cope by thinking you're above the greatest writer since Proust.

>>10769239
OP here. I like pynchon. That's half the point of this thread.

Peterson is himself postmodern without knowing it. His entire philosophy is based on reasoning analogically or metaphorically from myths and science and different things basically at his whim. This practice tacitly admits the impossibility of a cohesive master myth or narrative like Christianity, Marxism, Science, Humanism, whatever, under which we can live as human beings. It's as postmodern as you can get. His practices, while he derides Nietzche, are Nietzchean in their flagrant truthful untruth and basis in the desire for human flourishing.

>>10769239
Try again. I love Joyce and Beckett and plenty other difficult writers. I just don't find anything in Pynchon that is interesting or soulful, its all just dumb noise and ideas better men came up with first to better use

>>10769263
What's the dumb noise and ideas then?

>>10769263
>pretends to like Joyce
>thinks Beckett is comparable to Joyce
>cares about his art being soulful, yet falls down the hole of autismal reduction, where in this strange world art is a race towards ideas, instead of a continual tradition of communal progression

you're really speaking right out of your ass there, anon...

Stop shitposting, and go read something.

>>10769270
The very purpose of the books and its aesthetic principle. There's too much going on for how little off it actually reaches the reader in any profound way. I might in a good experience come away from Pynchon amused or thrilled but when night falls and I am alone and dispondent he offers me nothing nor could he.
I don't think he's a bad writer I just don't see him as worth reading or holding in high regard

>>10769279
>>thinks Beckett is comparable to Joyce

Post disregarded

>>10769284
Out of interest which books have you read by him?

I read lot 49 and was blown away. By Lot 49. Arguably his most accessible book. The amount of information he weaves in to a page is extraordinary. He is a genius, and honestly I rarely throw that word around, but he deserves it because he has some special affinity with words that lets him say stuff that nobody else can.
I actually feel sorry for you, I wouldn't class myself as particularly smart but even I can see the genius of pynchon.

>>10769284
>There's too much going on for how little off it actually reaches the reader in any profound way.

This isn't the fault of Pynchon though. It's the fault of the reader. Pynchon's fiction is useful in that it focuses on all the mindless simulacrum that life involves, breathing life into them via poetics to in a Rilkeian fashion, stripping away a lot of the delusions of control the reader demands. IT demands a communal effort to understand. The only ones I find, and I find a lot of them in my work, who react in a manner like you, are ones who usually believe in themselves as lone wolves a little too much.

There's no depth to your critiques, man. You have no idea what you mean by "aesthetic principle."
What about it? What about his consonance or vernacular timbre do you not care about?

>>10769190
No one on /lit/ likes Peterson my dude. That's just /pol/ trolls.

>>10769289
You've read neither if you really put them together. Only pseuds do that since their names are synonymous together because they were both Irish and active at the same time.

>>10769310
I put them together because I have read both and they were two examples of dense writers that came to mind, nothing more you absolute fucking imbecile

>>10769298
I read some of both Lot49 and Gravity's Rainbow

>This isn't the fault of Pynchon though. It's the fault of the reader.

Hurrr, you could say that about anything

>>10769306
forgot to link post >>10769325

>>10769319
Why are you so angry? Why do you lie about books you've read? I'm sorry, anon.

>>10769325
Lmao why the fuck would the stick to reading GR, after COL 49, with your opinions you have on his writing?

There's nothing in your analysis that convinces me you've even read them.

>>10769306
>are ones who usually believe in themselves as lone wolves a little too much.

Except I am in the end of the day alone as we all are. I am not a commune and the commune can have all the empty fun it likes vivisecting works but its of little interest to me and given any honesty, anyone else.

>>10769325
I have to agree a bit. Idk
The whole revenge thing in GR was really gay imo. Didn't like how that arc ended with the black guy getting killed by the russian brother dude.
Is that why you didnt like it too? felt tom clancy af

>>10769346
I never stated that was the order I read them in, you should lay off jumping to convenient assumptions

>>10769349
>Except I am in the end of the day alone as we all are. I am not a commune and the commune can have all the empty fun it likes vivisecting works but its of little interest to me and given any honesty, anyone else.

fucking edgy deep-fake bro pseud, leave this place

>anon has opinion
>shitposts
>is asked questions
>dodges and goes back to ad hominum and lazy platitudes

every pynchon thread

>>10769360
>books should be of interest to actual human beings not intellectual systems
>lmao edgelord!!

>>10769246
He doesn't deride Nietzsche tho.
Also, Peterson's criticism of post-modernism at peak.

>>10769368
You do know how rare it is to study Pynchon in uni? YOu do know Pynchon himself hated Academia? You do know reading groups and online forums exist, right? That the whole communal attitude was inspired by Pynchon's debt to 60s counterculture?

Why do you continue being an idiot?

>>10769368
fuck off, nick. you're dumb and your art is trite shit.

Pynchon is banal. People who take time out of their life to scan the minutia of banality in DFW or Pynchon are narcissistically rejecting the possibility of excitement, romance, et cetera

>>10769376
I don't know how any question you raised there has any bearings on what I said. He's not studied in academia? Ok good, all the more space for Melville and Shakespeare

>>10769396
I don't believe you've read any of the writers you've name dropped in this thread. I don't believe you've finished GR or TOL 49. I think you're a charlatan.

>>10769395
> possibility of excitement, romance, et cetera

lmao what? have you even read GR or M&D... the whole middle 500 pages of GR contains an amazing plot through Europe with a lot of romance.

Stop shitposting, faggot.

Peterson is clearly a post-modernist in his heart, abiding to "truths" solely because he deems them useful and that they might give him more power and control over his life/emotions.
Like Christianity, there's a interview where he's asked if he believes in the resurrection of Christ, he just deflects from the question. He's a pseudo-Christian.

>All the Pynchon haters haven't even read GR in this thread

Holy fuck like every single thread that happens here???

I expected this sub to hate Peterson for some weird reason

>>10769404
>I don't believe you've read any of the writers you've name dropped in this thread

And you're very free to believe whatever you want.

>>10769428
No /r/lit loved Peterson for a while, we're the place where he first started getting a serious following

>>10769430
and exactly... there we have it

has lying ever actually gotten you anything in life? why lie about the most mundane things to rile up strangers? you sound like someone on medication or some shit.

Anyway, I just want you to know that it's really easy to see through, your whole reader persona, and I suggest you stop it for your own good.
I can only expect so much from a Peterson thread: young males with some inferiority complex

>>10769444
and trips confirm my superior INFJ intuitive assessment of the pseud... since you Petersonites love Jung so much ;)

>>10769451
Thats funny, I'm also an INFJ. I'm sure in another discussion we'll find ourselves friends, have a good day man.

>>10769309
This, MY DUDE. dont be a chud, YO.

your typing style is really cool, u should stay here & not go back to twittereddit. youre really cool

>>10769461
i-it's a metaphor!!

>>10769461
I mean he never said YOU have to be the one to clean it

>>10769410
That is not romance. You don't have a sense of what I mean. Gravity's Rainbow is plainly autistic. It is not without merit. You should listen to Faulkner's nobel acceptance speech. Pynchon et al have been ruined by the movies.

>>10769461
>googles article name hoping for a good shitpost fake news website
>finds nothing
Sad stuff.

>>10769309
>>10769459
YO, that's a just a TROLL, MY MAN. UGH, just a RANDO DUDE. YIKES.

Fuck you. I don't know why I'm so angry myself-- but your post is so appalling. Some property of it makes legitimately disgusting to me. Don't post again.

>>10769309
implying pol likes Peterson

"everything is true if you believe it's true"
"there's an infinite amount of perceptions"
"what you focus on limits you, you can't see outside your framework"
"things are true if they function (?)"

Memerson is definitely some kind of postmodern thinker like others said in this thread. At least when it comes to the philosophical portions of his lectures. He thinks the current hierarchies are perfectly fine, so I guess that's why he ended up with the right.

>>10769527
>He thinks the current hierarchies are perfectly fine
He's a professor with tenure. Of course he does.

>>10769495
>calls a writer who clearly isn't autistic autistic

What? Why bring Faulkner??? what???

Are you in a manic episode or something? lmao

>>10769531
Yeah but he's also a gangly dork who sounds like Kermit the frog so quid pro quo

>>10769547
Seriously; gravity's raimbow is about a bomb, it is about the end of the world it is "pastiche" perhaps high pastiche but it does not take seriously matters of the human heart, it treats everything as a kind of "episode" as you aptly put it, the writing is interesting, it is certainly a work of art a creative dilligence done, but i personally felt nothing from it, except that i was passing the time. In the speech I told you about, Faulkner talks about this, basically how the post WW2 generation of writers and intellectuals were paralyzes by fear.

>>10769575
i think GR very seriously takes the condition of the post-ww2 human condition fairly well. World War II gave a lot of confusion to international relations, giving a rather tenuous and interconnected array of secret agreements and deals to disentangle. GR showcases the utter insanity of it by its zaniness, but Slothrop's utter disintegration after dying spiritually aboard the Anubis showcases the perfect metaphor for the trauma the wars inflicted upon us, and how very little the confusion and noise really matters.

>>10769588
See that to me is the issue: post modernism came from a traumatic, disturbed place and it is understandable; but the fear of annihilation has ever since overshadowed what happens between people, we have become political, medicalized, atomized; i recognize that all this happened but i think it is wrong to focus on it. Anyway i shouldnt have shitposted Pynchon is obviously a great artist. It disgusts me that i may be on the same team as peterson against post modernity because his regressive solution disgusts me. We need to become closer to one another, not to reemphasise our divisions; i honestly look to the third world to show us the way.
/rant.

>>10769279
>>thinks Beckett is comparable to Joyce
Beckett was an understudy of Joyce working closely with him and he recognised early in his career that if any writer was to survive the fart craving maximalist they must pursue work in an opposite direction, through increasingly minimal expressions, you're clearly a pleb if you do not recognise this as 'a continual of tradition' and think that they were just some Irish writers working at a similar time, B won the Nobel in 69 and yet you're arguing about self-fellatio on a sudanese penis enlargement forum

>>10769618
stupid fucking moral fag

Obviously there are values that come across in Pynchons writing that Peterson would disagree with, but I think there are many he would agree with as well.
Pynchon doesn't seem to follow the postmodern philosophy that Peterson hates.
I'd say anyone who would group him into that category hasn't read Pynchon's great books, like GR, which in the end exhibits a great love of humanity.
After all of the reversals, destruction of the normal, throwing away order and all that, it focuses on relationships between people as the most valuable thing when it comes down to it, which is something I think Peterson would be pleased with.

>>10769239
I love difficult writers but I just can't enjoy Pynchon's prose style. The vast majority of the time it's not a strong point to me.

>>10769246
i'd argue that he is attempting to reconstruct a grand narrative out of the pieces of the ones that no longer fit. post-post modernist
t.not read any post modernist lit

Also he doesn't deride Neetche

>>10769660
made me kek

why whats wrong with his post that made you type that retort

>>10769309
I bet you're one of the communist from the /lit/ discord.

>>10769190
>postmodern art and postmodern philosophy are the same thing

>>10769376
Are you kidding? Many, many colleges and universities, perhaps most, even, will offer at least one class where you'll read something by Pynchon.

At least in the US, dunno about elsewhere.

>>10769654
Good opinions, Anon. Legitimately.

Joyce kind of wrecked literature with his mastery, or a large portion of potential future literature, anyway.

>>10769686
Pynchon may have a great love for Humanity, but he doesn't show for human beings in his novels. I enjoyed GR, and I think he's an amazing stylist who is very funny, but, I don't know ... The Coming Infotainment displays a history of the sentiment that nothing is sacred, or when the first caged monkey was able to throw their shit, a scholar and poet, once of earnest drama, now scribbles down his self relating to the monkey smile, producing an indecipherable, inscrutable, indigestible screech....

---

I'll keep reading all his books looking for the nugs, that R E S O N A N C E. But I'll hope for a conversation, too. Because it's lonely here within the information.

>>10769190
>thinking postmodern philosophy = postmodern literature

thats the divide there.

>>10769396
ummm no sweetie, we're decolonizing our literature departments, the nu canon has no room for anti-PoC drivel for any of those white supremacist authors

>>10769428
>sub

>>10769190
>Pynchon is postmodern
Wrong. Pynchon understands the crisis of meaning as a tragedy more than an opportunity. You can claim him but you can't own him.

>>10770415
op here. 70 comments down and you're the only guy to point this out

>>10769461
I mean, you're free from the room cleaning once you ascend to the level of making thousands of dollars from posting vlogs on youtube where you look like you haven't slept in a week

>>10769246
Nice try you big, gaping asshole.

>>10770301
So what you're saying is that Peterson is attempting to make a new religious cult/ denomination of protestantism

>Postmodernists unable do disseminate between different postmodernismS.

>>10769190
>peterson hates postmodernism
only because peterson redefined postmodernism to mean "whatever peterson doesn't like"

>>10771591
I mean, what really is the definition of postmodernism?

>>10769190
He hates post-modern constructivists and marxists. Not the literary genres related to postmodernism.

>>10769246
>building upon certain aspects of post-modernism while rejecting others is somehow post-modernism

So is post-modernism just modernism? Is modernism just classicism?
Why do post-modernists always pull this bullshit where everything new is just an extension of post-modernism?

>>10771633
Nothing is true, everything is permitted.

>>10769246
yeah fuck off, he himself says that the premise of post-modernism is right, only that the conclusions and the ways those conclusions make post-modernists look at the world are false.

>>10769461
his room is clean, is it not?

>>10769246
>a man who thinks almost completely in grand narratives is postmodern

>>10771648

>>10771779
Imagine actually being so retarded that you think there's such a thing as "postmodernists" on 4chan.

>>10769190
Never will I betray Pynchon. I would fall him into death, even if he doesn't exist and the CIA wrote his later and slightly inferior novels. Peterson is a mostly sensible guy who doesn't understand what he's saying, a boomercon with his heart in the right place.

>>10771591
he's using it as code for cultural marxism

>>10772442
The Assassins are postmodernist hit men.

>>10771432
Thanks, I thought it was pretty surprising. Truly everyone on /lit/ is retarded except for you and I.

>>10769436
>all these retards defending peterson
jesus /lit/ has gone to shit

>>10774304
If we are existentially conscious aren't we at least somewhat post-modern?

>>10775207
he gets BTFO:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSuEccEYvaE&app=desktop

>>10769190
it doesn't matter who sides with whom, this man is a sinking ship.

in the russell brand interview, brand offered the jeter 3-4 different outs in what would be an internationally viewed video accessible to anyone with a computer. peeperson fucked the dog and either ignored or didn't notice the attempts to help his ass with the libtard media.

he fucked up the newman interview. could have just shown the whole world they're on the same side, they both want free speech, and blown her mind. he instead chose to act like a fucking 6yo and said "ha gotcha"

he fucked up the vice interview by not getting an unedited version out before vice put their retarded edit on the net.

he dicked the pooch again in the cbc canada interview, and instead of owning up to his fuckups and being honest he tried (and failed) to convince himself, the reporter, and anyone watching that he thinks he's in "the right".

>the man is intelligent, for sure, and his intuitive sense leads him well enough, but his lack of greater awareness is killing him.

not to mention the guy's showing the same signs in public appearances that both chester bennington and robin williams did before they offed themselves... i'd give him 3 months before he cracks, 18 months max before he's a goner. hope the man can sort himself out, he could really do some good for humanity.

>>10769190
Nobody here likes Peterson anymore than /mu/ like 6ix9ine. In either case they have an army of underage shitposters willing to do it for free at all hours of the day

Peterson is one of the only people that keeps me (a little) humble.

Even though I know it isn't the best way to go through life, I pretty much think everyone is considerably dumber than me or, at most, as smart. I have never met anyone that I believe to be smarter.

Peterson, along with a few other great thinkers, sets the bar incredibly high. It keeps me grounded. I'm sure all the genius mathematicians are slightly smarter too but I don't engage with their abilities so I don't care.

>>10775909
>I pretty much think everyone is considerably dumber than me or, at most, as smart. I have never met anyone that I believe to be smarter.
you browse 4chan, anon.

>>10769279
>continual tradition of communal progression
can you explain what you mean by that?

I don't believe he hates postmodernism, more like he hates it as a basic narrative. Postmodernism works as advanced stuff but if you will say to an unexperienced person that "everything/nothing is true" they will have nowhere to orient themselves towards because in such scenario even what they feel isn't true. People need some guidance system to act and through actions they can know themselves and arrive to some sort of personal truth.

> he instead chose to act like a fucking 6yo and said "ha gotcha"

He knows that, the issue was that he is a human and his patience isn't unlimited. But i agree this was a waste even though the results are memeworthy.

>he fucked up the vice interview

It's not that bad, i believe most people would agree that makeup has something to do with sexuality though of course to someone who has seen peterson for the first time it will look bad.

> the same signs in public appearances

I'm not sure I agree, in his recent video with a guy about left brain/right brain shenanigans discussion went to a point where it became clear that peterson is deeply interested in a lot stuff that is beyond his comprehension at the moment and has enough passion to research it for years to come.

My biggest issue with him is that he seems to mostly ignore the mystical and "what happens after death" aspects of religion. Hierarchical stuff is important but it's the death stuff that people cling to first and then get completely disillusioned when someone says that there is nothing in the sky but clouds. He has his hands full but I feel that some grounded incorporation of mystical aspect will go a long way.

>>10775909
>I pretty much think everyone is considerably dumber than me or, at most, as smart. I have never met anyone that I believe to be smarter.
"Such is the nature of men, that howsoever they may acknowledge many others to be more witty, or more eloquent, or more learned; Yet they will hardly believe there be many so wise as themselves: For they see their own wit at hand, and other men's at a distance." - Thomas Hobbes

>>10769210
Peterson believes that theres a place for postmodernism, but that it has been blown out of proportion

>>10775909
please don't make this a pasta

>>10769263
>its all just dumb noise
>likes Beckett
wHew

>>10769461
i kinda wanted this article to be real

>>10775909
>I pretty much think everyone is considerably dumber than me or, at most, as smart.

You haven't met very many people anon.

Is he /ourguy/?

>>10774292
Making grand narratives out of bullshit is the essence of postmodernism.

You can connect any two things through the property of existence. (I'm pretty sure heidegger showed this). Lending validity to such a connection, is what post modernists do.

>>10776865
2deep4u

>>10776120
That's his stupidest opinion yet
Its either correct or it isn't

What person on /lit/ hates post-modernism and like Peterson? Even the most basic brainlet knows Peterson is an outright liar who's never read a book in his life.

>>10774292
He's making his own personal narrative out of scraps from the wreckage of grand narratives

>>10771779
whats she drinking haha

>>10775909
nice pasta. this is fresh baked, i saw the first one somewhere or is this the 3rd generation copies of the same pasta im not sure

>>10769190
>Peterson hates postmodernism
Doesn't Peterson like Heidegger and Krasznahorkai? I'm pretty sure he hates the meme cultural marxism postmodernists.

>>10777549
this

>>10769190
lul people like Peterson are literally a product of post modernism

>>10775909
"Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, whereas talent instantly recognises genius."
- A.C.Doyle

>>10778325
>Peterson is a product of postmodernism
We're all aware that he's literally a reaction to postmodernist ideology you fucking pleb, you aren't profound

>>10775827
i agree he shouldn't have rubbed it in her face with the 'gotcha' but that was after 20 minutes of her being an extreme nuisance and one's patience runs out.

i wish he just did his comfy biblical lectures instead of book promotion.