/lit/ - Literature

>>10729502
He is right, tho

Pure breed Anglo Saxon pleb.

>>10729502
Based Pinker

>>10729502
>as Bertrand Russell pointed out

>>10729502
If you are the same poltard that keeps shilling books by altright/reactionary authors, can you please fuck off? If not disregard.

>>10729502
That's like dismissing the Bible on the grounds that the Spanish inquisition existed

a) Yes, Pinker is annoying.

b) Yes, you could lose Pinker under Nietzsche's little finger.

c) Yes, when Pinker says something like this he condemns, not Nietzsche, but only himself.

d) This thread is still boring and shilly.

>>10729502
>I don't like him so he's overrated

Absolute brainlet

>>10729502
>as Bertrand Russell pointed out

>realizing Pinker is a retard when it comes to everything but his field of expertise just now

>>10729502
>as Bertrand Russell pointed out

>>10729643
>>10729540
Who let the redditors in?

>>10729643
>>10729622
>>10729540

Bertrand Russell is okay, but he has MAJOR biases that were part of his generation. His gen was reacting to what came before, so you see him critique and dismiss the Christians, Stoics, Nietzcheans and others. Our generation should realize that Russell and his gen may have gone a little too far. Maybe there's some value to these schools fo thought after all.

Nietzsche is horribly overrated and his ideas are about as deep as a puddle. He also writes like a self-satisfied wanker and you can find basically all of his “insights” in earlier, less irritating, thinkers. I’m not even a Christian but if you take the term “slave morality” seriously then you need to take some time out to really reconsider your path in life. Rid yourself of Nietzsche.

>They are rid of the Christian God and now believe all the more firmly that they must cling to Christian morality. That is an English consistency; we do not wish to hold it against little moralistic females à la Eliot. In England one must rehabilitate oneself after every little emancipation from theology by showing in a veritably awe-inspiring manner what a moral fanatic one is. That is the penance they pay there.

>>10729687
t. doesn't understand nietzsche's point in describing master/slave moral dichotomy

>>10729698
which Eliot is he referring to

>>10729698
Eliot BTFO

>>10729719
I guarantee you don't either

>>10729728
George

>>10729728
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Eliot

>When the English actually believe that they know "intuitively" what is good and evil, when they therefore suppose that they no longer require Christianity as the guarantee of morality, we merely witness the effects of the dominion of the Christian value judgment and an expression of the strength and depth of this dominion: such that the origin of English morality has been forgotten, such that the very conditional character of its right to existence is no longer felt. For the English, morality is not yet a problem.

>>10729662
>Bertrand Russell is okay

He's not he was actually a genuine retard

>>10729732
how superstitious

>>10729745
>says the genuine retard with no accomplishments

>Which author (living or dead) do you think is most underrated?

>Thomas Sowell, an eighty-seven-year-old African American economist, has written more than thirty mind-expanding books. These include his Culture trilogy which (among other things) anticipated Jared Diamond’s ideas in Guns, Germs, and Steel and explains the ubiquity of anti-Semitism; A Conflict of Visions, which identifies the rival theories of the human condition underlying left-wing and right-wing political ideologies; The Quest for Cosmic Justice, which compares this quixotic pursuit with the quest for human justice; Intellectuals and Society, an uncomfortable exposé of the follies of all-star intellectuals; and Late-Talking Children, which anticipated Simon Baron-Cohen’s work on the extreme male brain. Sowell is a libertarian conservative, which makes him taboo in mainstream intellectual circles, but even those who disagree are well advised to grasp his facts and arguments.
Now we know who is behind all the Sowell shilling...

>>10729745
found the pseud "continental"

>>10729745
Hang yourself

>If the Superman will come by human selection, what sort of Superman are we to select? If he is simply to be more just, more brave, or more merciful, then Zarathustra sinks into a Sunday-school teacher; the only way we can work for it is to be more just, more brave, or more merciful; sensible advice, but hardly startling. If he is to be anything else than this, why should we desire him, or what else are we to desire? These questions have been many time asked of the Nietzscheites, and none of the Nietzscheites have even attempted to answer them.

The anglos dealt with Nietzsche a long time ago, why are we still discussing that hack?

>>10729502
35 KB

>>10729502
I guarantee that Nietzsche still maintained a Christian morality despite his writings. And I guarantee all of the neetchees in this thread haven't changed a damn thing about the Christian morality that they despise yet still subscribe to.

that's definitely one of the chinks in the armor. It's highly probable that Nietzsche didn't change his values at all and stuck with Christian ones. Even if he changed some of it, but kept one aspect of Christianity, he's only a hypocrite to his philosophy and even he doesn't believe in it!

>>10729916
schizo

He is right.

>>10730087
what kind of SMELLY LOSER screencaps their own posts

>>10730091
When faggot intolerant mods delete them after one second because it's content doesb't fit their agenda or world-view. This place is becoming more and more reddit everyday.

>>10730107
they deleted it because your gay fag

>>10730114
Epic rebuttal

>>10729542
OH MY GOD THIS 100% !!!
FUCK OFF. THIS IS OUR BOARD. NOT YOUR RACIST WHITE VIRGIN ASS.
WHat the fuck are you right wing assholes even doing on a board for an activity requiring that you connect and emphatize with ppl? THis is literally where /leftypol/ came from, get THE FUCK out

>>10729916
>I guarantee that Nietzsche still maintained a Christian morality despite his writings

My man.

>>10730123
>emphatize with people
The difference is that you faggots for some reason pick to do that with degenerate, weak people, while we actually value virtue instead of focusing in gay virtue-signaling.

>>10730123
>>10730144
same person

>>10730153
bullshit

>>10730153

>>10730175
piss off cunt you aren't me
>>10730163

>>10730087
Btw, I will keep posting this daily until someone actually tries to prove me wrong without falacies
I will wait, I know I will intellectualy destroy anyone anyways, continental brainlets will lost themselves inside their own word salads until they have some kind of panic attack and start sperging out while they see their continental false-idols perish in front of their own eyes

>>10729916
>I guarantee that Nietzsche still maintained a Christian morality despite his writings.
Yea no shit, he admits that he isn't the ideal man he philosophized about. That doesn't in any way reinforce christian morality, only a brainlet would think it does (he was a literal cuckold so go ahead and make the link)

>>10730200
>>>/asp/

>>10730211
Epic meme response
You just keep proving me right
Comeback when you actually know how to into reasonble and logical discussion

>>10730224
your mom's dick is logical idscussion lmao

>>10730229
You can't even type your own crap.
Sad!

>>10730200
All philosophy is garbage anyway and no amount of reconciliation with science will ever convince any serious mind that it is of any worth.

>>10729502
le ass man

>>10730237
Nice cope-out. You are so weak you crawl into centrist safe-space. You are sub-human. Change or perish like the lettuce you are.

>>10730202
>That doesn't in any way reinforce christian morality
when did I say or imply that tis fact about Nietzsche reinforces Christian Morality.

Negating Nietzsche's philosophy and reinforcing Christian Morality is not the same thing. You need to learn what negation is.

The negation of "this is a white cow" is not "this is a black cow," just like above.

>>10729502
>But as Bertrand Russell pointed out
Pahahahahaha

>>10730235
you barely speak english
gay!

>>10730123
So you are the guy who shills those books. Could you start tripping so I can filter you? Thanks.

>>10730335
Any problem with Don Russello, brainlet?
Go jack off to Derrida.

>>10729764
>>10729773
>>10729777
Name one original idea Russell had that isn't just some stupid name for a logical fallacy he stole from someone else

>he was a punchy stylist

Not really. Even his prose is awful.

>>10729732
>admits it

Russell is correct. Nietzsche was a babbler who appeals to fans of post-50s obscurantist french philosophical frauds.

Go back to your fucking University of Vermont / New Hampshire Psychoanalysis departments or Theology drpartments. You know you are a brainlet who can't compete with autist Anglos so you hide in bullshit.

>>10729502
Pinker ought to be more skeptical toward his inherited concepts.

>>10730362
you read it in german?

>>10730400
>Nietzsche
>Theology departments

Anon...

>>10729502
Nietzsche is ultimately is overrated though. He's great to read but the takeaway is meagre because he's just a heap of obscurantist contradictions.

>>10730424
They don't contradict each other. A pretty reasonable part of Nietzsche's work is compatible with religion. You don't even know your own side.

>>10730437
>You don't even know your own side.

How do you know what my side is

>>10730447
I know everything, God talks to me and I'm God.

>>10729745
I bet you can't even read Principia Mathematica, faggot.

>>10730484
I read the first volume of Principia Mathematica. It's dense, boring, and at the end of the day a failed experiment thanks to Godel. It was important to read it since it was a step in my intellectual development, but I can say the same thing about learning that a stove is hot the hard way. In the end, I didn't gain anything from it, except an easy way to identify pseuds who think it's valuable.

>>10730484
Why would I read that piece of shit when I can read Frege?

>>10729745
This

Bertrand Russell is an embarrassing no-talent retard, a LITERAL cuckold fetishist, a supercilious cunt who alienated everyone he ever knew, and worst of all, an analytic philosopher

>>10729502
Christ, this unironically reads like the kind of Reddit post that people copy and paste here as bait

lotta pseuds in this thread

>anglo "thinkers"

>>10730571
Anglos in general are cringeworthy from an outside perspective.

>>10729572
>hurr durr the Spanish inquisition was bad because the protestant propaganda told me so

>>10730484
Read HoTT, pleb.

>>10729572
>Spanish inquisition

>>10729572
>inquisition
>bad

>>10729764
>>10729773
>>10729777
Daily reminder that if Russell's paradox hadn't happened the history of philosophy would have stayed the exact same, that his ethics is cancer, his arguments for atheism are retarded, his influence on Wittgenstein was bad and later abandone and his politics can go die in a ditch somewhere.

>>10730749
The inquisition actually saved a lot of people's lives from angry mobs and secular authorities that wanted to kill the "heretics"

Daily reminder that /ourguy/ Wittgenstein BTFOed brainlet Russell so hard that he felt ready for suicide.
https://blog.oup.com/2015/06/bertrand-russell-suicide/

>>10729916
Ehhhh, Nietzsche did say he loved based Jesus but hated Saint Paul for distorting his message.

when will all these whig-ish "enlightenment" shills get what they deserve

>>10730794
He admired Jesus because from his perspective, Jesus didn't conform to Jewish tradition and crafted His own morality, which to him displayed an overman and revaluation of the current value system (even though His teachings and morality are much better understood as that of a fulfillment of the law, of OT, and of Judaism).He's not a fan of Christian morality, considering he favors strong over weak.

>>10730253

Can someone explain "le shit nigger" meme? Every time I mention this guy on the rest of 4chan people reply with the word "ASS" or "le shit nigger".

>>10730830
he didn’t admire christ he calls him an insane child in The Anti-Christ, a hysteric maniac who in the most basic sense was more of a free spirit than the Jews. There is no praise in the way he speaks, just recognition he was special in relation to the idiots surrounding him. But, he also “praises” the pharisees as the ruling order who christ the prince of chandalas was warring with.

>>10730838
Just check the encyclopedia.

http://s4s.wikia.com/wiki/Ass

>>10730792
>be Russell
>Wittgenstein looks over your work
>"I dunno senpai something's wrong"
>seriously consider suicide
Holy shit I'll fucking die.

>>10730123
>/lit/
>Not full of virgins

lmao

>>10730788
Not to mention it also burned a ton of despicable heretics saving their souls in their final confession

>>10730200
lol stop LARPing

>>10729502
>What subject have you found it most challenging to write about?

>Economic inequality. It is both highly moralized (right-thinking people agree it’s the root of all evil) and intellectually devilishly complex, far more than people acknowledge. For example, if “the bottom fifth” earns the same proportion of income in 1980 and 2010, it doesn’t mean anyone’s income stagnated: these “fifths” are different people, and they earn a fifth of different totals. Also, it’s not clear that inequality (as opposed to poverty) is a moral abomination, or that reducing it is progress. As Walter Scheidel argues in The Great Leveler (another superb book of 2017), the most effective ways of reducing inequality are epidemics, massive wars, violent revolutions and state collapse.
Wait, what does "right-thinking" mean here? "People who aren't left" or "people who aren't wrong"? Sounds weird to me both ways.

>>10730838
it's complete nonsense, like the rest of [s4s]. it means absolutely nothing, people just post pictures on [s4s] with completely unrelated text and it becomes a meme if they work hard to spam it enough. I'm not kidding.

anyway, pinker really is fedora core and while I appreciate some of his style manual (Sense of Style) for his linguist take, I couldn't help but chuckle a few times like when he quotes some dawkins rant (WHO IS MY FRIEND BTW FULL DISCLOSURE) about how le humanist finds meaning in life, or compares an excerpt from his wife's memoir to some canon novel (WE ARE BOTH JEWS AND SHE IS MY WIFE FULL DISCLOSURE), he really is a walking stereotype and probably a lot of his hot takes are retarded but he's not a brainlet and once he gets into shit he knows well he can be interesting

>>10730898
people who aren't wrong I think

>>10730898
In this context he means "people who aren't wrong"

>>10730909
>>10730920
OK, thanks. He then goes on to say inequality isn't as bad as poverty, so it makes it seem like he is saying people who focus on inequality are wrong, and that confused me.

>>10730897
Haha got me

>>10729773
>>10729777
>>10730484
>>10730543
>>10729764
stop samefagging, it's embarasing

>>10730961
it's an ironic expression, meant to indicate a herd temperament
'of course, everyone of sound mind . agrees that inequality must be eliminated'
they are 'right-thinking' because they 'think' the 'right' things, i.e. the accepted/ acceptance platitudes of the professional opinion class
note pinker is an exemplar of the professional platitudinarian, so his condescension towards those who hold contrary onions is especially rich

>>10729502
Ass

>>10731016
your embarrassing calls for an internet throw down and insanely arrogant rhetoric are embarrassing.

>>10730828
Only when liberalism at last is slain and vanquished, and the days of throne and altar return.

>>10730254
He's absolutely right tho. philosophy is like religion, its a stepping stone to greater truth but unfortunately people get stuck

>>10730584
>>10730723
>>10730749
hurr durr so edgy guize

>>10729502

>as Bertrand Russell pointed out in A History of Western Philosophy

Didn't he literally just punch-up a book ghostwritten by assistants?

>>10730792
D.H. Lawrence also BTFO'd Russell in a letter and made him want to kill himslf. I can't find the full text and can't quite be bothered to, but here are some excerpts:
>You simply don’t speak the truth, you simply are not sincere. The article you send me is a plausible lie, and I hate it. If it says some true things, that is not the point. The fact is that you, in the Essay, are all the time a lie.
>I would rather have the German soldiers with their rapine and cruelty, than you with your words of goodness. It is the falsity I can’t bear. I wouldn’t care if you were six times a murderer, so long as you said to yourself, “I am this.” The enemy of all mankind, you are, full of the lust of enmity. It is not the hatred of falsehood which inspires you. It is the hatred of people, of flesh and blood. It is a perverted, mental blood-lust. Why don’t you own it.

>>10732830
whoa

>>10731822
I read it and from what I understand he gets unreliable after the ancients.

>>10732830
this makes d. h. lawerence look bad but russell looks even worse.

>>10731358
Sorry for triggering you

>>10729728
The American who became famous 15 years after his death, obviously

>>10729502
Pinker's great but he's wrong on this one IMHO.

>>10732830
What the FUCK was his problem?

why cant i take him seriously? i just cant see the philosopher in that faggot with curly hair. his aura is like a bartender or some sax player playing in the street for coins.

>>10732874
Lawrence is right, though. The fruits of labor of Russell and those like him are being reaped presently. Lawrence tapped into the proto-fascistic animus far earlier than anyone else and recognized the horrors of modernity. For this he should be lauded.

>>10733074
>Pinker's great
"no"

>>10730123
/lit/ is a Catholic board. Fuck off commie.

Not a single refutation itt.

>>10730543
>an analytic philosopher

Literally the worst thing on that list. Shame.

>>10729502
Nietzsche was a great stepping stone philosopher. His ideas were poorly thought out but were solidly laid to allow further thinkers to build off them. All philosophers that were inspired by him made objectively better arguments that people now use to look back and better understand Nietzsche better.

Also why the fuck is this dude perpetuating the myth of Will to Power being a fully Nietzschian idea, his philosophy was hijacked by his bitch sister. Might as well claim Leninist Communism is Marxist Communism.

>>10729650
Russell is reddit as fuck, especially "muh history of western philogoy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6nI1v7mwwA

>>10733220
>Catholics aren't communist

Nietzsche, I think, is not that great for you mentally.

>>10733301
... hmm, go on... hmmm yes,.... nihilism... egoism... hmmm

>>10733278
>God gave free will
>communism forces people to do X
>communism is godless anyhow, so that wouldn't matter

ass.

>>10729502
>A History of Western Philosophy
I told you guys he was a pseud.

>>10733278
> commie complains about poltards being dumb
> hasn’t heard of the Decree Against Communism

Literally excommunicated by default:
Q4: If Christians declare openly the materialist and anti-Christian doctrine of the communists, and, mainly, if they defend it or promulgate it, "ipso facto," do they incur in excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See?

R: Affirmative

>>10730788
Plus it also revolutionized law in Europe.

>>10733278
>Catholic
>not being a distributist

C'mon anon.

>>10733327
Communism doesn't force anyone to do anything, that's capitalism.

>>10733540
>the materialist and anti-Christian doctrine of the communists
Sounds like they're just talking about Bolshevism. That's why I posted a photo of Althusser, you pseud.

>>10733608
Yeah, people forget that distributism like early socialism and communism was born from Christianity.

>>10733663
Communism is intrinsically anti-religion. There’s a reason the decree doesn’t specify Bolshevism. If you want communism, but not antithetical go Christianity, you need the social credit things.

>>10733681
>>10733681
>Communism is intrinsically anti-religion.
Where is it intrinsic? There's a big strain of new atheist edgelords since Bakunin in the Left, but even Marx was very sympathetic to religion. I can only see Christianity as very opposed to capitalism because of Jesus. Since Islam really only believes in charity, but allows for wealth as long as you give to the poor. Eastern religions support "accepting your place" and being a prole, and I suppose this is a part of Christianity when they adopted a bit of stoicism, but I don't feel like that was Jesus.

>>10733700
> Marx was sympathetic to religion
> that opiate of the masses quote

Basically, the fundamental difference is that communism routinely fails to treat people as individuals, which is sort of an important part of people having souls. The labour theory of value also fails to recognise differences in ability. By and large tho, Christianity can exist independent of the economic/political order, as ones economic state, political position, and religious beliefs can be largely divergent.

>>10733717
this is wrong shut the fuck up
>>10733700
communism is based on 19th century understandings of mechanics and the social sciences, anth etc. Its not compatible with theism unless you mean some kind of deism or lame naturalistic pantheism, which are both widely considered practically atheist beliefs.

>>10729502

The eternal anglo strikes again

>>10730838
17 KB

can someone explain the master/slave morality thing to me. i dont want to become a nazi lmao thanks

>>10733871
In moral terms, we tend to think of good and evil, assume good and evil in everything, rather than simply good and bad. Good tending to be associated with altruism and compassion, evil with egoism and malevolence. Nietzsche noticed one of the mistakes that philosophers of his generation made (particularly English utilitarians, surprise surpirse) was assuming this dichotomy was primordial, primitive and universal. On the contrary, Nietzsche said that if we look at history, this sort of thinking can't be taken for granted at all, can't be just assumed as a property of unexamined "oh well, so it goes" sort of thinking. Nietzsche points out that in antiquity, what he calls "master morality", the morality of the powerful, did not distinguish between good and bad in this way. Instead, goodness was associated with nobility, strength, pride and so on, whereas badness was associated with the low, the common, the plebeian. Classical virtues and vices. Nietzsche argues that in reaction to this, people so denigrated by this moral system kind of emerged with their own moral compass, called "slave morality", which instead valued and esteemed their traits - humility, kindness, sympathy - as good, against the traits of their rulers - pride, strength, so on - which are considered evil. Re-sentiment, devaluing the possessions and characteristics of the "masters", and elevating those of the slave.

Nietzsche's geneaology of morals points out that we have inherited this slave morality, and urges us to think outside of it. We are trapped, and until we study morality as something with its own history, full of alterations, changes and inheritances, we are unable to view it reasonably, and then perhaps overcome it.

Nietzsche does not advocate a return to master morality, though he holds a slightly more contemptuous view of slave morality: because it is born out resentment, a kind of willed delusion, a reaction and subtitute rather than an original creation. It is not good for the fox, envious of sour grapes, to simply submit to his anger and humiliation and be content with his re-evaluated lot.

>>10729765
Sowell is great for us though

kino Nietzsche

>>10734057
{{{sowell}}}

>>10734034
>>10734069
God I hate Nietzsche so much.

>>10734057
>us

>>10734057
>further muddying of the water between social democracy and socialism by the usual retarded Americans

I've never read Nietzsche. Where should I start?

>inb4 start with the greeks

>>10734262
you can't understand one word neetchi wrote unless you've memorized every dialogue by plato

>>10734262
Human, All Too Human is a good start iMHO, a bunch of aphorisms

The older /lit/ Philosophy project also has an order https://docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/1y8_RRaZW5X3xwztjZ4p0XeRplqebYwpmuNNpaN_TkgM/pub

>>10734262
Nietzsche is one of the few thinkers you don't need to start with the Greeks for
Because he's not very good

>>10734337
this is what happens if you don't start with the greeks

>>10733074
I agree. It goes to show that academians ought to stick to their own field. The blank slate was a very good book, but you see that whenever these scientists try to meddle with any type of philosophy, arguments are thrown out of the window. A mere shrug and "this guy said.. and I agree." will do.

>>10732830

>>10734262
Read him in chronological order starting with his first book, The Birth of Tragedy. If he refers to any names, read into the ones you aren't familiar with.

>>10734560
What is the letter Russell sent him?

>>10734653

>>10732830
Reminds me of the discussion between Tanizaki and Akatagawa which ended with Akatagawa killing himself

>>10733197
>>10732874
Lawrence asked Russell to remember him in his will LMAO.

>>10733197
Just say fascist, it is pretty much what Lawrence defended in his letters. Or at least, he defended some totalitarian state.

ass

>>10729633
This.
Anything to with psychology he's the #1 public authority.
But the OP just screams "I've read nothing of Nietzsche, or even philosophy, except Bertrand Russell's shitty book." Oh no, it's literally so.

>>10729732
It's not difficult to understand at all.

>>10734560
Russell was full to the brim with ressentiment.

>>10735614
56 KB

>>10729765
>hates Nietzsche for inspiring Ayn Rand
>likes black Ayn Rand man 2.0

>>10734951
>Just say fascist
No? Why would I when that's not accurate, and you know it's not accurate? Undoubtedly DH would have supported fascism should he have lived to see its rise, but that's not really the point. His political thought was not fascist, it was proto-fascistic, which is what I called it. I hate this trend of labeling people's ideas as something they are not simply out of convenience, like calling Plato a fascist, or, as we see in this thread, Catholics as communist. It's dishonest and it needs to stop.

>>10733681
What about state's like Stalinist Russia and Titoist Yugoslavia that allowed religion?

>>10734262
Just read the core western canon in order. You can't understand any of the ideas any other way.

>>10734185
You feelin that ressentiment, anon?

Pinker is one tiny step above meme atheists like Dawkins. He is redpilled as fuck though on human nature. Read his book "the blank slate" and you'll see why a lot of lefties hate him.

>>10729502
What shallow thought. Why is this guy considered some kind of intellectual?

why do faggy psychologists think they can speak on philosophy?

>>10735939
Because their meme field is so worthless they have nothing else to talk about

>>10729662
>the Christians, Stoics, Nietzcheans
>Maybe there's some value to these schools

Stop eating crayons

>>10733717
>STILL misinterpreting what the phrase "opiate of the masses" means
>le LTV lol

Honestly, walk off of a cliff. Opiates relieve pain, it's a sympathetic statement. The adults are talking, do some reading before you jump in. Marx doesn't talk about LTV except re: Ricardo, &al.

Also, religions aren't true so who cares about being pro-religion.

>>10729633
A lot of the psychologists turned intellectuals (Pinker, Chomsky, etc) are though. They are scientists, and that requires autistic skills and expertise in one area and plodding statistical analysis. Its very tough to combine that with a broad intellectual repertoire, although they are the most like "science people" to try and live that ideal. At least physicists are honest.

>>10736072
scientists are the biggest pseuds

>>10730200
Enjoyed the meme, but I would argue that Empirical philosophy has failed the arts. Those Anglo-Saxons who've produced great output (TS Eliot, Turner etc) since have an uncanny habit of being English (or American) Catholics, which links them back to the anti-enlightenment. The swapping of high culture for high science was a smart decision in terms of achieving great physical power, but we will leave a less impressive legacy behind than the "continentals" who preceeded us (by that I mean pre enlightened Catholics)

>>10736072
>psychologists turned intellectuals
wtf lol

Also ol Noam is a Linguist

>>10736094
>TS Eliot, Turner
Milton is worth more than every anglo-catholic combined and was weird ranting puritan, sorry nice theory but doesnt hold up

>>10729502
It feels like Pinker has read abstractions of Nietzsche written post-illness progression by his sister. If he'd read Human, All Too Human he would have seen some of the more delightful and human aspects of his character. In particular, passages in which Nietzsche extols the importance and value of mixing culture and science with other aspects of life, his scathing views of metaphysics post-enlightenment and the parts in which he talks about the importance and value of standing back from one's life to assess its qualities rather than looking too close and getting lost in the details.

>>10736127
Yeah, Nietzsche has really gotten heavily caricatured into a sort of Ragnar-Redbeard uber-Darwinist cynic type because of all his "fuck pity" and famous master-slave morality dichotomy and those general ideas throughout his works. Which is a pity because he's a funny, nuanced and interesting philosopher even apart from all the bombast of "WILL TO POWER IS THE BEST THING EVER, EVERYTHING THAT MAKES YOU FEEL STRONGER IS GOOD AND EVERYTHING THAT MAKES YOU FEEL WEAKER IS BAD LET'S KILL THE WEAK". Not that I necessarily agree or disagree with those parts, just that they're not even the best parts.

>>10735939
>as Bertrand Russel pointed out

Are there any pre-WW2 authors, that aren't right wing extremists by todays standards?

>Nietzsche wrote in Human, All Too Human that arabs won't get anywhere because their values are heavily tainted by religion and since can't thrive under such conditions
>Fast forward
>Arabs didn't get anywhere
lol fucking nazi

>>10734262
Beyond Good and Evil, Genealogy of Morals (it's continuation of the first) - there are his main ideas in moral philosophy. In Thus Spoke Zarathustra same ideas are mixed with plot and powerful imagery.

>>10735739
I dislike the trend of adding prefixes and suffixes to labels to create new labels to apply to every other thing. If people feel a label is a close-enough for a thing, that is one thing, but creating labels in relation to other labels suggests deeply categorical thinking or semantic pedantry, and those are huge turn-offs for me.

>>10735939
Why do phiosophers think they can speak on anything?

>>10729643
>>10729540
>>10729622
>>10730543
>>10729745
Russell was a genius and a great philosopher. History Of Western Philosophy isn't a great book, which Pinker doesn't know the memery of, but it's generally an honest account of his opinions.

Christfaggots on this board don't like him, obviously. I don't know why they'd like Nietzsche either

>>10736164
There are the left wing extremists and some liberals which would be centre-right by today's standards.

>>10736230
They don't if they read Wittgenstein

>>10729502
>it “might be stated more simply and honestly in the one sentence: ‘I wish I had lived in the Athens of Pericles or the Florence of the Medici’.”
and?

>>10729662
a true genius.

>>10736325
His head even looks like a literal brainlet

>>10734034
thanks for replying this is some good stuff.
Fuck slave morality desu senpai

>>10730792
>I can now express my objection to your theory of judgment exactly
>there's very little agreement at what Wittgenstein was getting at
heh

>>10736164
er what? This makes no sense at all unless your whole political world is gender/race/PC stuff. Many European great literary figures are virtual or actual commies

>>10736226
It's not pedantry, it's accuracy. If you can't honestly assess a thinker's thought and instead resort to bluntly forcing them into a box they do not properly fit, fine, but don't expect me to do the same.

>>10736101
Linguistics and Psychology are closely intertwined, my degree is in psychology and it was mostly about speech recognition morphemes and so on

>>10736094
Oh dear please don’t ever state that theory again outside of this thread, it’s total nonsense.
>>10735663
Yeah no shit, I was just making clear that the Nietzschlet that somehow considered it as something I didn’t know was clueless.

>>10736154
>they're not even the best parts
Please share what you think are the best parts of Nietzsche. To my eye he really doesn’t deserve half the attention he’s given.

Buttered nipples

>>10735806
No, more boredom at all the trash that flooded through Nietzsche’s pen when he wrote this garbage.

Religion has lost popularity anyway, this occurred naturally.

>>10729803
Nietzscheites on life support

>>10731572
Explain how it was bad.

>>10729803
The Superman is basically Cesare Borgia. A degenerate but cunning sociopath who likes to conquer stuff.

>>10737613
Makes me hate the concept even more then

>>10734560
wtf i love lawrence even more now

>>10737619
There's a reason all the works where Nietzsche was explicit were works of negation and criticism but his only work where he posed positive values was deliberately vague poetry. It's the same reason his magnum opus that he announced multiple times was never written.

He was great at diagnosing problems, but he didn't have any good answers. Nietzsche is great to really make you think but 'Nietzscheanism' as anything normative is shit, and often highly arbitrary as well.

>>10735666
Wasn't he a literal cuckold?

>>10737586
He can't because the inquisitions were 99% good. If he tries to blow the 1% out of proportion, he is just a tard; he'"" just blurt out Black Legend shit that he learned in his anti catholic public school

>>10737663
I agree with you, I just always wonder why Nietzsche is still taken as seriously as he is by so many people. Its mostly just flashy rhetoric to my eye.

>>10737709
I get it desu, I've been under his spell for a while when I was younger myself.

It's extremely gifted rhetoric, especially if you haven't heard anything more edgy or enticing than liberal humanism up to that point.

This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen, good god.

>>10729803
The superman selects himself, that is the entire point. The exact set of values is irrelevant, only that they are chosen with superior knowledge of the values that came before.

>>10733261
>All philosophers that were inspired by him made objectively better arguments that people now use to look back and better understand Nietzsche better.

Name one. It better not be a French communist.

>>10737709
As a society we still haven't dealt with his negations, so the lack of a positive program is hardly relevant. (Also I disagree about the lack of a positive program but that's a different topic)

>>10729502
>True, he was a punchy stylist, and, as his apologists note, he extolled the individual superman rather than a master race. But as Bertrand Russell pointed out in A History of Western Philosophy, the intellectual content is slim: it “might be stated more simply and honestly in the one sentence: ‘I wish I had lived in the Athens of Pericles or the Florence of the Medici’.”

This 100%
The only reason people take Nietzsche seriously is because of the great prose. His ideas are dogshit

It's about time people see this hack for what he is

Emerson >>>>>> Nietzsche

>>10734545
It's very strange, his 'Better Angels of Our Nature' was utterly exhaustive as a work but then he dismisses Nietzsche - I can't even tell if he has even read ol' Neet or not based on his criticism. Calling Nietzsche's writings 'sociopathic' just seems bizarre, unless he's relying on the gossip that descends from Russell's "critique." I just finished Ecco Homo recently and the lasting impression is of a man driven into the Abyss because he tried to say yes to life while surrounded by blind, life-denying, self-hatred.

>>10738671
*Ecce

>>10733202
>no
ur mum figet

>>10738671
>Calling Nietzsche's writings 'sociopathic' just seems bizarre
Not really. I've had an actual contemporary philosophy scholar share the same diagnosis with me

>>10738671
Nietzsche doesn't seem to give a shit about most of humanity if you hadn't noticed. Like he's a colossal asshole

>>10738745
ugh, so true. he was, like, such a dork.

>>10738756
yeah, he was a real jerk!

>>10738777
based normatov

test

>>10729502
((ressentiment))

>>10729528
"Man does not live for pleasure. Only the Englishman does."

>>10729803
another anglo incoming

>If we said what we felt, we should say, "So you are the Creator and Redeemer of the world: but what a small world it must be! What a little heaven you must inhabit, with angels no bigger than butterflies! How sad it must be to be God; and an inadequate God! Is there really no life fuller and no love more marvellous than yours; and is it really in your small and painful pity that all flesh must put its faith? How much happier you would be, how much more of you there would be, if the hammer of a higher God could smash your small cosmos, scattering the stars like spangles, and leave you in the open, free like other men to look up as well as down!"

>>10729687
Ironically you're a better Nietzchean than most people

>>10737613
>>10737619
Evola said the superman was Neitzsche at his worst, and I'm inclined to agree

>>10729502

If Nietzsche really inspired all that, doesn't it make him extremely underrated?

>>10729502
Nietzsche is to philosophy what Queen is to music: overrated baby's first choice.

He's right about the Alt-right using Nietzsche. I know a guy who's been inside of Richard Spencers house, and sent me an image of his bookshelf. Have of the books there were about 'understanding Nietzsche'. Like the dude needed someone else to point out what it means. Dick Spence also collectivizes Nietzsche so much that it's not a joke anymore, instead of the quote Nietzsche said 'become who you are', it becomes 'become who we are'. And it's pushed again to suggest everyone can be Randian heros with brawn.

>>10739660
No because those things are problematic, stop thinking goy

>>10738653
This. Emerson even writes more beautifully and in English.

Reminds me of the Finnish school shooter, Pekka Eric, who was inspired by Nietzsche, he even wrote a manifesto. When people started talking about dangerous philosophy, pulling Nietzsche and Plato out of the high school philosophy course, the first thing I did was go borrow some of those books from the library. I was even baited into reading Plato when I was 16 because of this.

If Pinker wanted people not to read Nietzsche, not pay attention to him, this is probably the worst thing he could do.

>>10729662
>>10736237

Bertrand Russell is a pseud and a literal cuck. He was a living "my wife's son"x2 meme

>>10730792
>>10732830

Ironic, given that Russell intentionally trivialized Socrates' suicide.

>>10729687
yeah, Nietzsche uses the fact that Judaism/Christianity originated from slaves to justify that its wrong that we live with morality that upholds the weak and using the word "slave" is a jab at Judaism and Christianity too.

But to me that is retarded. Most people would consider Roman values to be that of a master morality, but Rome originated from slaves, criminals, exiles, and refugees. Like I don't see how that dichotomy of Master v. Slave Morality holds up in justifying that the strong was butted out by the façade of 'championing the weak" type morality, taught by slave originators, where this façade is condemnable and ought to be thrown out for strength, superman, etc.

>>10740754
Have you read Genealogy of Morals?

>>10739735
Source me on that manifesto... I'm storing info on school shooters for my temple

>>10729542
>Nietzsche
>"alt right/reactionary authors"

>>10729633
How's the style guide he wrote?

>>10740777
http://oddculture.com/the-pekka-eric-auvinen-manifesto/

>>10729803
>These questions have been many time asked of the Nietzscheites, and none of the Nietzscheites have even attempted to answer them.
Man, even 10 minutes of research would have shown him that the problem is the opposite: too many answers.
>>10730200
Non-continental philosophy is basically a prank. I don't think it was ever intended to be taken seriously.

>>10729572
The Spanish Inquisition was not even remotely the monstrosity those with anti-Catholic agenda have presented it as.

>>10729687
>his ideas are about as deep as a puddle. He also writes like a self-satisfied wanker and you can find basically all of his “insights” in earlier, less irritating, thinkers.
Ehh, how about just say you find his style very irritating instead of trying to rationalize your irritation by making silly claims like "as deep as a puddle". Also a reminder Nietzsche was a philologist and music enthusiast. His "self-satisfied wanker" style has to be understood in that context. In interpreting his ideas, his mental breakdown should be considered as illuminating. That's how I treat Nietzsche.

>>10741205
Recc me some reading on the Spanish inquisition

>>10741226
He's just repeating alt-right memes about the medieval ages being great.

>>10736164
Uhh yeah Marx

>>10741226
De Maistre has a good essay about it

>>10741297
somebody less biased please

>>10741292
Marx was a racist antisemite which I think qualifies as being right-wing by today's standards. You can get away with liking capitalism somewhat in modern Leftist culture, you absolutely cannot be racist.

>>10741058
>What do I hate / What I don’t like?
>Equality, tolerance, human rights, political correctness, hypocrisy, ignorance, enslaving religions and ideologies, antidepressants, TV soap operas & drama shows, rap -music, mass media, censorship, political populists, religious fanatics, moral majority, totalitarianism, consumerism, democracy, pacifism, state mafia, alcholohics, TV commercials, human race.

>Pekka-Eric Auvinen
>What do I love / what do I like?
Existentialism, self-awareness, freedom, justice, truth, moral & political philosophy, personal & social psychology, evolution science, political incorrectness, guns, shooting, BDSM, computers, internet, aggressive electronic and industrial rock & metal music, violent movies, , FPS –computer games, sarcasm, irony, black humour, macabre artm mass & serial killer cases, natural disasters, eugenics

>>10729528
hes a jew

>>10729502
>Nietzsche inspired Bolshevism
Is looking like a retard a national sport in US?

>>10729765
He's not wrong

>>10741203
You've misunderstood the quote entirely. Chesterton is asking why is the ideal overman would be anything different to what we admire in men already? If such a man is actually different to those expectations then why should we want such a man? He would probably be a dickhead. Chesterton is basically saying that the entire concept of an Overman, whilst Nietzsche tries to make it sound like a revolutionary badass idea, is actually really toothless and not very impressive or different after all.

A chubby English Catholic absolutely demolished Nietzsche's nonsense, just accept it.

>>10741205
Name me literally one idea or theory of Nietzsche's that is anything deeper "than a puddle." Seriously.
>a philologist and music enthusiast
What kind of a point is this? His style is unbearable, are you trying to say he "had a real ear for great rhythmic prose!" or are you gonna apologise for being so embarrassing?
>>10741203
>too many answers
Please name a handful of them if it only takes "10 minutes of research." I would love to hear these ideas.

>>10741848
>Chesterton is asking why is the ideal overman would be anything different to what we admire in men already? If such a man is actually different to those expectations then why should we want such a man?
Who the hell is this "we" you're talking about? This is the question Nietzsche asks - whose justice, whose mercifulness? And why?

>>10742094
Nietzsche pretends his ideas are this huge liberation of mankind but what is this in practice? What does this look like in reality? Nietzsche himself gives examples, one of the only acceptable ones being Goethe. A great man, definitely, but Nietzsche's explanation as to what makes him great is just silliness and forcing his own beliefs onto a man's life that was lead in ways that any of us can admire regardless of whether or not we've thrown off herd thinking. Please tell me how this new brand of bravery an overman displays is somehow different from bravery as we all might know it to be?
>whose justice, whose mercifulness?
And what is Nietzsche's response to this? He says its your own uber standard. So either we act in a way that isn't just and and merciful to the outside world but say its to our own overman understanding of such concepts, or we do act justly and mercifully in the eyes of the world, in which case we can't be called an overman. Chesterton is right in asking what the big deal is, then.

>>10729502
Experiencing some serious secondhand embarrassment right now. And to think I was actually going to read his new book. Plebs will be plebs.

>>10739665
even scholars use secondary/tertiary literature, sperg

i'm pretty sure spencer is more acquainted with nietzsche than most people on this board

>>10729502
Pinker is a brainlet.

>>10730792
>>10730849
I'm fucking dying of laughter holy shit

>>10741643
>sport
Who needs sports when you have popular science authors for entertainment?

>>10742142
You and Chesterton are both idiots. There is only one Overman, and he is a natural occurrence in the world, the world produces him by nature of its being will to power and nothing besides.

>>10744080
t. barely literate idiot

>>10744192
You're braindead. Stay away from Nietzsche.

>>10744224
bitch

>>10741245
some day people will study /pol/ and there will be a judgement passed on their use of propaganda, they’ve convinced people that blacks were better off as slaves which no matter how awful and dumb niggers are (and they’re really fucking awful) is absolutely absurd beyond belief

This whole thread is hilarious

>>10744080
Pure mumbo jumbo nonsense. Grow up.

i remember an interview with pinker where he nonironically suggested that people will eventually just agree to not wage war

lool

>>10744893
Why are you pretending to discuss philosophical ideas when you obviously don't read philosophy?

How does anyone read philosophy up to Nietzsche and come away from it thinking that the Overman is the brand of your own standard and the result of individuation in any individual? That is such a watered down interpretation of the philosophy. No wonder you consider his writing style highfalutin and melodramatic.

There can only be one Overman, because the Overman is the acme of humanity. Man is a rope between the ape and the Overman. This is a "liberation of mankind" in the sense that it is a new goal for our species, one that manifests in the actual, unlike the Christian goal of the afterlife, which focuses all our energy on something which does not ever manifest in life: energy on non-life. The focus towards the Overman is a focus towards life. The Overman is not merely a poetic charicature but the being that understands the most and demonstrates it best among humanity. If you think that is an impossibility, then you don't understand what impossibilities are.

>>10745770
If you just typed that response out with a straight face then I honestly don't think there's anything more worth saying to each other. Neither of us can convince the other of anything because you have not responded to the criticism of what the overman actually is and why there is anything new about the concept. All you've done is say that its a life-oriented goal.

>If you think that is an impossibility
I don't. My point was that the overman, in practice, was not the groundbreaking idea that Nietzsche and his herd such as yourself seemed to believe it is, and all you've done is shown how empty it was with the warped Darwinist, pseudo-Messianic garbage you've recently spewed. Strip away the visions and poeticism and what is the idea? Nothing.

>>10746032
>you have not responded to the criticism of what the overman actually is
I did respond to it by defining it. The Overman is the acme of humanity: that is what it is, and there is nothing to argue. There is nothing to even criticize; do you criticize nature? The Overman is a function of nature; through comparison, we develop taste, and through taste we develop discipline, and through discipline we develop knowledge, and through knowledge we develop greater taste, until we build a pyramid of tastes and disciplines. The Overman is the being that appears at the top of such a pyramid. You can't prevent it unless you strive to prevent nature itself.

>and why there is anything new about the concept.
No other philosopher formulated the goal of the Overman as precisely and elegantly as Nietzsche. The idea may have lingered in the shadow of others' thoughts, but Nietzsche was the first to bring its full body out into the light (i.e. articulate the unconscious desire of all of humanity and even of life, thus bringing it out into the hemisphere of the conscious for the first time). If you think another has, feel free to mention him.

>>10736325
If only Russell knew how bad continental philosophy would get after the French got their hands on it.

>If I could go back in time, I might confront him [Nietzsche] as follows: “I am a superman: hard, cold, terrible, without feelings and without conscience. As you recommend, I will achieve heroic glory by exterminating some chattering dwarves. Starting with you, Shorty. And I might do a few things to that Nazi sister of yours, too. Unless, that is, you can think of a reason why I should not."

I shit you not, he actually wrote this in his new book

>>10746141
This gave me goosebumps

>>10731336
Ass

>>10746141
we're reaching levels of power fantasy that shouldn't even be possible

>>10730898
>these “fifths” are different people, and they earn a fifth of different totals
Is he seriously implying that all of the bottom fifth have moved up in 30 years?

>>10729765
> Sowell is a libertarian conservative, which makes him taboo in mainstream intellectual circles
This is true about Harvard and the other Ivy Leagues. Sowell is some edgiest shit there is to them, he is mainstream Republican with a lot of libertarian leanings. There are post-modernists and neo-Marxists who are so rustled by Sowell that they have invented elaborate and bizarre reasons for why Sowell is a white supremacists and/or a white man by social dynamics.

>>10746141
fucking lol

>>10730898
>Wait, what does "right-thinking" mean here? "People who aren't left" or "people who aren't wrong"? Sounds weird to me both ways.
this board can't recognize satire, why are you guys stuck on your high horse?

>>10746141
A teenager attempting philosophy, nice.