/lit/ - Literature

Have I got a book for you...

awful poster not even worth giving advice
here take this disdain

The Rational Male by Rollo Tomassi

Letters to a Young Stoic by Seneca

Any of the Phillip Marlowe books by Raymond Chandler. Chandler knew what was up with women.

I just want to say that improving yourself as a man doesn't mean turning yourself into something women will want. Love and sex is over-rated, ask anyone who has lived with a girlfriend for around a year. But, women do make up half the human race, and they see the world in a way men literally cannot imagine (and vice versa).

>>10728410
I give absolutely no fucks about making women want me.
One: because I have a loving wonderful gf now who I very much care about
and
Two: I just want to be the best I can be, the women will follow.

>>10728407
Speaking of disdain, I was wondering about Nietzsche the concept of ubermensch seems interesting to me. Is it worth looking at?

I've already read Albert Camus when I was depressed and that helped a lot.

>>10728428
Yes, Nietzsche is a good primer if you need motivation. But it just seems like you already have enough to read. Just read what you have, then come back here.

>>10728398
You come off as really insecure with all that self-justifying.

>>10728458
I dont really get what you're trying to say. I dont know what Im self justifying except my ignorance when it comes to literature (hence why I'm here)

>>10728428
For the Ubermensch stuff you should look into Thus Spoke Zarathustra and Will to Power, they're a little long but if you read an intro to Nietzche or just Beyond Good and Evil you'll be right.

>>10728398
>Books for men in their 20's?

Why are you identifying yourself like a woman? You want objectively good books not some demographic specific garbage

>>10728491
Figured, that I'd get more precise recommendations that way. And some objectively good books may not serve the purpose I'm trying to achieve right now. Hence why I'm specifying and gave examples.

Your list reeks of soy masculinity.

Read Marx

>>10728498
What the fuck has your aims to do with your age and gender? Christ you are an effeminate cocksucker

>>10728499
Mind explaining why?

>>10728503
>Aurelias
>Hemingway
>Peterson

All "I was raised by a single mother" tier

>>10728504
As a young man that knows nothing of the world, I'd like books recommended with that in mind. This isnt a hard concept.

>>10728410
>The Rational Male by Rollo Tomassi
This, so much this, read this book and you will understand so much more about life. Screw the philosophy books or other self-help wanking materials.

>>10728509
Start with the Greeks

>>10728508
Mind giving recommendations then? Yknow, the whole point of this thread? Ya flaming nutsucking fruit.

>>10728501
I dont see how commie politcal reading will help with my goals.

>>10728499
Stop pretending to be above it all, poseur. You can't even form your own thoughts which is why you rely on memewords from 2k17.

>>10728513
I recommend hanging yourself

>>10728511
I've read the Illiad and the Odyssey The Trial, Oedipus, as far as greek literature goes I have no clue where else to go.

>>10728518
Plato motherfucker

>>10728522
Will look into it thank you.

>>10728516
I'd say the same but your scrawny ass build probably wouldnt do the job.

>>10728410
>The Rational Male

What exactly is this book about, sounds very fedora/mgtow

>>10728398

Good bait, you would have been 99% believable without that Jordan Peterson book dropped in the middle.

Read Moby Dick anyway

>>10728553
>he thinks there aren't tons of people exactly like this

Reminder /pol/ has occasional book threads where they recommend each other this type of garbage

>>10728553
not baiting, just heard about the guy, watched his videos and figured I'd wanna read what he had to say.

>>10728553
It would be believable with The Reddit Art of Not Giving a F*ck?

Basic Economics by Sowell, that way you'll have some understanding of the way money works.

>>10728547
Just a very methodical book telling you how women work supposedly. Take it with a grain of salt as it assumes women are soulless creatures just designed to try and leech off their man.

The advice is good, the stuff about women just can be devolved to avoid a woman who treats you like shit. If you're a beta cuck or from r9k it's good for you, if you're well adjusted and have self respect already it might not be as much use.

>>10728398
IT'S A SIN

>>10728547

It's dumb redpill shit by some asshole who pretends to be a psychologist by making up fake statistics.

>>10728398
Read in this order, you ready OP:

Brave New World - Huxley
1984 - Orwell
Crime and Punishment - Dosty
Notes From Underground - Dosty
The brother karamazov - Dosty
The Portable Nietzsche - Nietzsche
Beyond good and Evil - Nietzsche
Modern Man In Search of a Soul - Jung
Introduction into the study of Hindu doctrines - Guenon
The crisis of the modern world - Guenon
The reign of quantity and the signs of the times - Guenon
Revolt against the modern world - Evola
Ride the tiger - Evola
The Upanishads
The dhammapada
The Bhagavad Gita
The doctrine of awakening - Evola

You’ve just escaped the matrix, you’re welcome.

>>10728621
Thats alot of poo in loo im looking at there mate.

>>10728630
Those books were written by the Europeans and Indians joint ancestors you fucking moron. On second thought, don’t read any of these, just stick to 12 rules for sudras.

>>10728637
How in the actual fuck is Hindu religious scripts relevant here?

>>10728398
>>10728410

These have got to be satirical

>>10728499
This

>>10728621
This is arbitrary and dumb as fuck

>>10728637
>The Upanishads, Dhammapada and Bhagavad Gita were written by Indoeuropeans

just lol

>>10728644
I legitimately dont understand how my list of books to read is satirical.

>>10728648

If you're the OP, it's because your list sounds like you asked a bunch of teenage virgins on Reddit for recommendations. It's a mix of stereotypical "masculine" authors (Steinbeck, Hemingway) and shitty pseudoscientific self-help books by internet celebrities (Peterson, Manson).

>>10728513
Reading Steinbeck and then complaining about commie influence, you might have a little contradiction there.

Anyhow, reinforcing recommendation of Moby Dick and will raise you one Steppenwolf.

>>10728499
>>10728644
>Hemingway and Steinbeck is soy
>Miyamoto Mushashi the greatest fucking swordsman of his time is soy
>A Roman Emperor who's a frontline general and conquered most of the known world is soy

End yourselves you maggots

>>10728664
A book on political philosophy and a novel by an author who was anti-capitalist is not equivalent

>>10728663
And what would you have recommended instead?

>>10728669
a book on a political philosophy and works by an author who used novels to convey that same political philosophy are pretty damn equivalent, one is just more sugar coated. Not saying it's the same thing, but embracing one and dismissing the other seems like you're missing the point. Also, reading Marx is just about the best way to formulate responses against said philosophy.

>>10728663
Name one time Peterson was pseudoscientific

>>10728458
Almost as if he's trying to improve himself

cute thread,

drop peterson.

>>10728398
What did you do to Charly

>>10728694
Chapter 2 of 12 rules. Complete BS

>>10728667
Hemingway is the definition of soy

>>10728513
I also recommend hanging yourself

>>10728513
Gee, someone sure is sensitive. Must be the soy.

Edith Hamilton's Mythology
The First Philosophers - Presocratics and the Sophists
Plato - Complete Works
Basic Works of Aristotle
Cambridge History of Later Greek and Early Medieval Philosophy
Augustine - Confessions, On Faith, Hope and Love
Anselm - Monologion, Proslogion
Aquinas - On Being and Essence, Summa Contra Gentiles
Cambridge Companion to Early Modern Philosophy
Francis Bacon - The New Organon
Descartes - Discourse on the Method, Meditations on First Philosophy
Spinoza - Ethics, Descartes' Principles of Philosophy & Metaphysical Thoughts
Leibniz - Monadology, Discourse on Metaphysics, Correspondence With Arnauld
Locke - Essay Concerning Human Understanding
Berkeley - Treatise Concerning the Principles of Human Knowledge, Three Dialogues Between Hylas and Philonus
Hume - Treatise on Human Nature, Inquiry Concerning Human Understanding
Kant - Ptolegomena to any Future Metaphysics, Critique of Pure Reason

Half the people replying to this are just going "HA I can't believe you read *author we made memes out of* you must be *meme*. Sure feels good being above all these plebs since they have such bad taste even though I will never say what I read in case I get made fun of. LMAO you soyboy.

The guy asked for recommendations not a judgement of his character. Must be great to be such a superior person to a guy you've never met that gave you a few names of books he liked.

Why is it that everyone on this board wants to feel above everyone instead of elevating them so that they don't stay such plebs. If the person you're insulting is really so bad in your view would it not be better to improve their taste by telling them the right way to go?

By the way an excellent way to go is to read 'The First Philosophers' with a bit of greek philosophy followed by a brief bit of rationalist and empiricist philosophy which isn't really helpful for morals (how to conduct yourself) for the most part hence why you shouldn't waste too much time with it unless you're a fan of epistemological and metaphysical theories. For the kind of stuff you seem to enjoy, read Nietzsche, Plato, and stoic philosophy (Xenophanes).

For some reason /lit/ is really apprehensive towards people like you the past couple of months. Here's links to some philosophy recomendations.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Philosophers-Presocratics-Sophists-Oxford-Classics/dp/019953909X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1519125620&sr=8-1&keywords=first+philosophers
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Early-Greek-Philosophy-Penguin-Classics/dp/B00E32FEZ2/ref=sr_1_12?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1519125659&sr=1-12&keywords=early+greek+philosophy
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rationalists-Discourse-Meditations-Monadology-Metaphysics/dp/0385095406/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1519125681&sr=1-2&keywords=rationalists
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Empiricists-John-Locke/dp/0385096224/ref=pd_bxgy_14_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=TYA7Q2Q920MYDCM7Y05Y
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Will-Power-Friedrich-Nietzsche/dp/1522045473/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1519125711&sr=1-8&keywords=will+to+power
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Science-appendix-Translated-commentary-Kaufmann/dp/0394719859/ref=pd_sim_14_8?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=3CY5KY9P6ZR1DN2PCRXP
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0140455116/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?psc=1

I would also recommend you write a lot. Just take a few minutes at the end of the day or whenever you have a big thought just so you have it down. It helps out a massive amount.

>>10728813
What a great refutation of his chapter

>>10728398
you dont need books nigga you need to go out and live life and learn some shit

>>10728398
The Poetic Edda

or Even just the sayings of Hår

not your personal trainer

>>10728398
http://sonic.net/~rteeter/greatbks.html#indexes http://thegreatestbooks.org

>>10728864
>The guy asked for recommendations not a judgement of his character.

Well then maybe he should have went to reddit instead fuckweed

>>10728518
Start with the dialogues of Plato relating to the death of Socrates, then read Republic and Symposium, then move on to Aristotle.

>>10729067
How is this an argument?

>>10728904
Funny enough I had to break away from my personal trainer to make gains. He said I wasn't ready for lifting heavy shit.

>>10731382
Reddits for arguments, /lit/ is for action

>>10728878
Im doing that too. But I figured I shouldn't just be some gym rat and have other hobbies besides lifting heavy metal things or playing video games and watching TV/anime

>>10731390
>a bunch of neckbeards on 4chan calling prominent authors and a man who seeks self improvement soy is action

yeah alright cuck

>>10728864
OP here I appreciate the help man. Thanks alot.

>>10731404
Project elsewhere reddit. Self improvement is for cucks who need improvement, I am perfect and I am a Chad

>>10731428
You're on 4chan, that in of itself speaks volumes you fake ass Chad

>>10728398
You're on the right track OP

>>10731444
The right track to his home

>>10728398
Read the catcher in the rye with the right mindset

>>10731465
>a book about a whiny beta boy complaining about how life is too hard and how women like sex without love

No.

>>10728398
>Moby-Dick
>The Sickness Unto Death
>Notes From the Underground
>The Prince
>The Brothers Karamazov
>Nichomachean Ethics
>The Biblical Books of Job, Ecclesiastes, 1 & 2 Kings, and Exodus.
>Lost in the Cosmos
>Wise Blood

And just for fun give The Things They Carried a read.

Read Ellul if you want to be lightyears ahead of any ''''''intelectuals''''' and ''''''academics'''''

>>10728674
Listen carefully you fucking pig I'm not going to reply to you:
>Genealogy of Morals
>The Social Contract
>Journey to the End of the Night
>Storm of Steel
>Confessions of a Mask
>Rotting Hill
>Ulysses
>Moby Dick
>Don Quixote
>A Treatise of Human Nature
>Pale Fire
>The Question Concerning Technology
>Industrial Society and its Future
>Capital (read it you dumb fucking ape)
>The Wealth of Nations
>The Ego and its Own (just 4 u)
>Twilight of the Idols
>The City of Man
>Simulacra and Simulation
>The Elementary Particles
>Oedipus Rex
>The Iliad and The Odyssey (you can pick the transl)
>The Complete Poetry and Prose of William Blake
>The Cybernetic Hypothesis
>Neuromancer
>The Age of Alexander (Plutarch)
>Macbeth
>The Republic and the entirety of the Socratic Dialogues (all of them faggot)
>the Chuangzi
>Man and his Symbols
>The Futurist Manifesto

that's enough you'll figure the rest out, seriously fucking don't reply to me you repulse me

>>10731529
Thank you

>>10731529
finally a good list

>all these triggered leftypolacks and effeminate pseuds ITT
Thank you OP.

>>10728875
Question: Name one time Peterson was pseudoscientific
Answer: Naming one time Peterson was pseudoscientific
Refutation: That's not an argument

hm

>No mention of Fight Club
C'mon /lit/

>>10731396
>this entire fucking thread about "getting out of the abyss" and "improving myself"
>still plays vidya
>still watches TV
>still watches anime
my fucking sides. I bet you wont' even finish the first book you pick up due to your fucked attention span.

>>10728398

Why have the stoics gotten so popular among dudebros over the past years?

>>10731721
Because it doesn't require them to do anything

>>10731728
makes sense

>>10731721
its philosophy for plebs, its quote format slop that you can constantly meme yourself into believing. You don't have to think deeply, there is no real ontology or epistemology therein, its just wanting to not feel bad about feeling bad. Perfect for people whose weeks are swallowed by work and school, whose lives are filled with doubt and desperation. We're in the bug age, so bug philosophy like utilitarianism or stoicism is becoming popular. Hedonism is the only other option for most people, which obviously requires either ruining your life or being rich/attractive

>>10731737
What philosophy should they read then?

>>10731754
Kermit the frog

>>10728410
Spotted the /pol9k/ mgtow loser

>>10728398
Read the stoics and the bible. You don't need any other books for your purposes.

>>10731721
Stoics have always been a self-help tier normie corruption of the Cynics.

>dude don't live in a barrel but just count to 10 when you get flustered in traffic :)

>>10728398
>The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck: A Counterintuitive Approach to Living a Good Life by Mark Manson

>>10728398
The Greeks you fuck faggots

>>10728644
Interested in what this fellow would recommend

The people in here taking the time to shit on OP's choices and attention span without offering alternatives are pathetic

>>10731815
T. Person who hasn't read either.

>>10731877
I've studied both pretty extensively, Stoicism essentially removes praxis and adds theory to Cynicism and compromises it to the point of being compatible with the life of the average civilian.

It's been cop-out: the philosophy from the start. Even Epictetus, the best Stoic, realised this and held up the example of Diogenes as the ideal man.

>>10728407
faggot

>>10731872
>>10731700
How does one increase their attention span? So far I've been prescribed ritalin which doesn't really do anything and I've stopped using the internet for the past month except occasionally browsing lit on my lunch break. I still can't read a book for shit though

>>10731700
I've already improved myself, markedly, just wanted another hobby, besides lifting 2 times your bodyweight you faggot.

>>10731821
Listened to a sample from an audio book and liked it. Didn't see much wrong with it.

>>10732017
meditation

>>10728643
Your thinking of wisdom in the pursuit of the optimal state as being limited to X or Y intentionally limits your horizons and potential of being, cuck.

>>10732017
You literally keep reading when you feel like stopping. Do numbers help you motivate to do the right number of exercises? You know 3x3 won't get you anywhere so you commit to do 3x5 instead? Then commit to read no less than 50 pages when you sit down. Now do this six days a week, at least. One rest day if you want it.

>>10732125
Thanks neighbor. I'll try this but my schedule doesn't really permit it

The obsession of "improving yourself" is a religion made of by the consumer society

>>10732194
Not him but I normally try to always finish on a chapter whenever I read. 50 pages is a lot per day especially if it's a difficult book so ease your way in over a couple weeks.

>tell me what to read
Your level to not decline speaks volumes you.

>>10732205
get out of here commie

>>10732387
Except that he has already taken initiative to read books on his own. And came here for recommendations, almost like yknow he's trying to improve.

>>10728491
>Has something he wants
>Tells us what it is
>Gets attacked

If you don't need that information, don't use it. OP is correct to be specific instead of just asking /lit/ "what should I read?" (Which we have charts for and which is not a helpful question.)

>>10728398
Most of the suggestions here are philosophy suggestions. Personally if I learn about anything when reading it's about art. I'll give my recommendations to that end, since that's what I know, but OP, what are you looking for precisely? Or what interests you that you think exists in literature?

In order of difficulty/nuance:

East of Eden
The Broom of the System
The Crying of Lot 49
All the Kings Men
The Pale King (skipping bits as desired)
Flannery O'Connor short stories
Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man

To be supported by (in any order):
Hamlet and His Problems
Tradition and the Individual Talent
The Imperfect Critics (parts of according to interest)
Federer as a Religious Experience
The Nature and Aim of Fiction
Faulkner's Address at the Novel Prize Banquet
Any of "The Well-Wrought Urn" that you can find

>>10732125
Okay, but make sure the problem is with you and not with the book. Some things are, after all, better than others, and you're better off reading something you like and benefit from efficiently than you are working on your ability to slog through a book. Assuming you're not horribly easily distracted.

>>10728466
>Im not trying to sound like a hippy, or trying to be spiritual or that nonsense, I didnt really have any decent role models other than the stuff I saw on TV etc etc and im just looking to improve myself as a person. Sorry if this came off as cheesy or ghey.
Mostly this paragraph but also putting yourself down in such a soyboy manner and the amount of times you do it. Also
>ghey

>>10728398
Your reading list is basically trash.

Read the following:
Walden and Civil Disobedience by Thoreau
Self Reliance and Conduct of Life by Ralph Waldo Emerson
Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman
Pick two Shakespeare plays (uncultured fucks are ones who have never read Shakespeare) and read them
Don Quixote, Divine Comedy or Les Misérables, either one: you should have knowledge of at least one European country, and read its magnum-opus.
Camus is decent. Kafka is good. Read Candide to round out your repertoire of cultural literacy.

For recent shit, you can't go wrong with Bukowski--most people are at least somewhat familiar with him so it will allow you to fit in with the pseuds and "tru-intelekshuals".

And for the love of god, drop the goddamned reddit spacing.

>>10731877
fuck of phoneposter

Infinite Jest (get past the first few hundred pages)
srs

>>10728510
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJfJTmfq2Q4

>>10731721
because its actual philosophy you can live by rather than airy fairy nancy words

>>10732771
I heard that book was pretentious as all hell

>>10728398
Don't start with Old Man and the Sea, read Hemingway chronologically. Also, realize he was not actually masculine himself by nature.

>>10728511
It took way too long for this to be posted. What the fuck is happening to /lit/?

>>10731529
skip to neuromancer

>>10733564
I actually dont know much about Hemingway could you explain?

>>10733668
The books follow his own life story so to start at the end of his personal canon would be to deprive yourself of it's external history.

>>10732017
Never take Ritalin. It's part of the reason why we have a fucked up generation plagued with ADD.

Quit social media. Quit watching TV, or at least look away when commercials are running. Commit fully to the activity you are doing. Don't take out your phone or listen to music in the back. Meditate, or at least sit in silence doing absolutely nothing for 15 minutes each day. Stop reading/watching the news. Get your information in one small burst from a respectable source, e.g. 15 minutes on Reuters in the morning, then nothing all day. Appoint time to an activity and then follow through: read 50 pages, watch 1 episode of <insert series here>, 30 minute workout, etc..
Don't scroll on your smartphone, ever. Ditch it if you can.

>>10728491
I believe he wants us to recommend to him books that offer valuable insight on life and humanity that we be of use to him as he grows older.

>>10734075
I thought ritalin only did that to adolescents? Either way I only took it twice and I won't again. As far as the other stuff, I do all of it except ditching my phone and meditating. I stopped watching TV and using social media many years ago and haven't played games in a while so really I just need to gtfo of my phone and start committing to tasks

Pehaps you could rather start working on yourself by examining your defensiveness towards being "hippy", "spiritual", "soyboy" or "ghey".

>>10728398
>make me a stronger, more well rounded man
There is plenty and you don't even have to stop a literature. plenty of good films/documentary films that can help you acheive this goal.
But I think the best thing you can do is watch the news but not just from one source.
>literature recommendations
The World as Will and Representation - Schopenhauer
The Histories - Herodotus
A Modest Proposal - Jonathan Swift
The Myth of Sisyphus - Albert Camus
Xunzi - Xunzi
The Cynic Philosophers
2666 - Roberto Bolano
The Man in the High Castle - Dick
The Wasp Factory - Ian Banks

Read some stuff by this guy

>>10728398
growth of the soil - knut hamsun

>>10729067
What the fuck is reddit?

>>10728398
I recommend you lift or run. Do some physical activity and it'll help your reading

>>10728398
>12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos by Jordan Peterson
Almost got me desu

Read so that you are smart enough for ride the tiger and then read ride the tiger.
It's the best self-improvement idea.

>>10732017
Unitask. Do one thing at a time. Stop blasting music and netflix in the background while listening to a podcast as you play a videogame. If you're reading, just read. If you're watching a movie, just watch, and so on.

Another thing is task commitment. Whenever you undertake a certain task, assign a certain goal that needs to be met. Read at least a chapter of a book, or a certain set of pages. Watch a movie all the way through without pausing and/or grabbing for your phone. Listen to a music album all the way through, etc.
This also apply to the small things. Even if it's a 3 minute youtube video, or a 1000 word article you have to commit. You can drop the activity if it turns out to be trash -20 seconds in the youtube video is not at all what you were looking for, to give a stupid example- but generally speaking you need to commit to whatever goal you've established.

Lastly, just ignore distractions. Whenever you're doing something and you feel that pull to go do something else, don't give in to it. I'm not exclusively talking about 'physically' doing something else, I'm also taking about mental rumination and daydreaming.
I think we all know that moment where we're faced with the decision to give into a distraction (physical or mental), or to go back to whatever we're doing. It's in that moment you need to decide to ignore the distraction. Making that decision is like a rep for your concentration-muscle. Likewise, if you choose to give into distraction, you're exercising your distraction-muscle. The good news is, is that there's a dozen, hundreds even, moments where you get to exercise your concentration muscle -unlike physical muscles, you can do an infinite amount of 'reps', and these opportunities naturally present themselves during the day, so concentration can be quickly cultivated.
If you really commit to it, you can improve your concentration to a noticeable degree very rapidly (just a couple of weeks).