/lit/ - Literature

>>10729325
>shakespeare’s plays had dick jokes in them, he wasn’t smart
>shakespeare was the tarantino of his time

>>10729325
I wish.

Is disliking Shakeaspeare the only "pleb" trait you can think of?

>>10729325
Holden is such a whiner! OMG I can't stand him

>>10729349
It's a particularly ridiculous one and one of the most prevalent.

>The Count of Montecristo is the capeshit of its time
>Tolstoy is boring
>Mann is style over substance
>Hesse is for teenagers

>>10729325
Anything positive about Shakespeare.

>>10729349
I just happened upon some comments like the ones I posted. These people think they're making some incredible observation, while missing the fact that he's still by far the most revered writer in the English language. How many other playwrites are having their work produced and translated all over the world almost 400 years later? How many other writers cotnributed as much to the English language, to our metaphors and idiom? Oh, but you're able to make contrarian posts about how he "wasn't that great" because of some idiotic comparison to pop lit... It's truly retarded; I think it might be the plebbest thing someone could possibly say while communicating in English.

>>10729362
Is thinking that Tolstoy is boring common? More so than plebs would find classics in general boring? If so that's crazy.

>>10729370
Retard.

>>10729362
>The Count of Montecristo is the capeshit of its time
This is true
>Hesse is for teenagers
Not for teenagers but definitely for twenty somethings

>>10729373
Plebs find the classics boring. Tolstoy just wrote the longest (and thus most boringest) classics.

Fuck, people are always saying that Jane Austen wrote the equivalent of modern romance novels. Yes, that's why she's considered the best novelist in English (debatably, but she's up there) and still widely read hundreds of years after her death. I'm sure every single author of romance novels today will be read, studied, and discussed in 2300.

>Russia has the best writers
>I don't get poetry
>The only Italian poet they've read is Dante

>>10729387
Russia has two of the best novelists ever, and probably the best short story writer ever.

There are two distinct flavours of pleb.

a) Basic bitch thug. Typical comment: "Poetry is just a lot of stupid nonsense."

b) Pseud who is basically (a) at heart but wants to appear cultured and superior. Typical comment: "I f*****g love poetry".

>>10729377
> Extremely developed and well-written characters, intricate and engaging plot with no loose ends, very good themes of guilt and revenge
> Capeshit

The only reason people think this is because of the """basic""" plot and prose that isn't so difficult to read you need a guide to help read it.

Creative Writing 101 Edition

>only writes about one topic
>excessive use of expletives
>"once upon a time"
>vehemently refuses to read books
>"plot and story are the same, right?"
>"very"
>bringing two laptops to class

>>10729325
These people are right though, you just don't like them because they're infringing on your pseud cred and social signalling abilities you get from reading Shakespeare.

>>10729325
>history is boring

>>10730066
>"plot and story are the same, right?"
I’m gonna reveal myself as a pleb here. I got what was wrong with all the others, but what’s the difference between plot and story?

>>10730157

Plot is the details, the mechanics of what happens; story is more general, a little more towards "theme".

Example:
KING KONG
Plot:
Ann Darrow is a penniless young lady in New York in the middle of the Depression. Overcome by hunger she is tempted to steal an apple from a stall and the owner catches her. A stranger steps in and pays for the apple. His name is Carl Denham...etc

Story:
A gigantic ape is discovered on a primitive island by a band of American adventurers; he falls in love with a blonde girl in their company. They bring him back to civilization. He breaks free and they kill him.

>Ishmael is the best character of Moby Dick
>Borges did not deserve the Nobel Prize
>Jules Verne is just for children
>Hemingway is an awful writer
>Jane Austen is a bad writer
>Evelyn Waugh is not underrated
>Dostoyevsky is a bad writer
>Lord of the Rings is Classic Tier

>>10729471
So they're morons if they say they don't like poetry and they're morons if they say they do?

>>10730195
>Jane Austen is a bad writer

She's shit

>>10729362
>Tolstoy is boring
I mean, Tolstoy is boring but that doesn't mean I can't still see him as genius. Which he was.

>>10730227
shoo, Mark, shoo

>>10730066
"Once upon a time" is the greatest and, quite frankly, only opening any work of fiction should ever use ever and you're a fucking retard if you disagree.

>greek mythology was the marvel and dc of the times

>>10730090
This board is fucking trash.

>>10730192

So 'what' vs 'how'?

>>10730307
More or less anon.

>>10730157
>>10730283
Plot is more about structure, and story is what fills in that structure. Plot articulates cause and effect.

>Pynchon is pretentious
>Cormac McCarthy sucks

>>10730283
The reaction of a man who's main social signalling medium is being eroded

>>10729381
>most boringest
please anon

>>10729824
Quality capeshit is still capeshit anon

>>10730401
Obviously people are free to dislike Shakespeare but the reasons OP cited are terrible and poorly thought out.

/lit/ is a pretty bad board these days though, /pol/ seem to have killed a lot of the discourse.

>>10729325
“I think philosophy is important”.

>>10729325
>"Look if a book is more than 100 pages long, I'm not reading it haha"

>>10730090
Don't you have a community college culture studies class to "teach"?

>>10729325
"Lolita is actually kind of sexy". Faggy artsy guys and narcissistic girls actually say this. I've heard it from a few people.

>>10730449
>a book
>less than 100 pages

I shoot cumshots longer than that

>>10730090
>unaware he spends his entire life using Shakespeare's idioms & neologisms
>thinks he's being intelligent when his subconscious fires a misconceived pithy Shakespearean adage out of his mouth
>everyone above average IQ in the room thinks you're retarded but won't deign to correct you because you're an insincere self-deceptive jackass.
Just read the Bard famalam

>>10730474
Most people here say that, it's just retarded edginess.

>>10730066
To add to that

>writes about how much she hates her family
>only writes oppression narratives
>"1000 words? Jesus..."
>exclusively self-focused plots
>tangential complaining
>omniscient third person narrator that says "fuck" a lot

>1984 is my favorite book
>Moby Dick sucks, I don't want to sit through hundreds of pages of whale anatomy descriptions

>>10730670
>>"1000 words? Jesus..."

I don't get it

>>10730195
Agree with you but I do think LOTR is a classic. Tolkien invented fantasy.

>>10729325
here’s an easier one, the deep lines from shakespeare you dorks constantly put in books and conversation are extremely thread bare commentary on the human condition. shakespeare isn’t even remotely as interesting as the greeks he is aping and the obsession with wit and grandeur in his style is a sign of artistic mania, has nothing to do with genius and everything to do with being a syphillitic narcissist which is what most artists are. You confuse the beauty and eloquence of his works with meaning and importance. This is why MFA’s and lit people, the literati, those who focus on works of fiction are basically subhumans. And there’s a reasons Plato censored them, denigrated them repeatedly. Its a deforming kind of thought that especially playwrights engage in; there’s a near 1:1 connection between being a vapid quip machine and liking Shakespeare. Ive never in my life met someone above a midwit who drew from his works to prove a point philosophically. This goes for all authors who do this stupid shit with Milton and others included. You don’t see how narrow a field of expression fiction is, because it gives you status and you think the status is validation of your insightfulness and wisdom, or you don’t think insightful wisdom had value because you’re hedonistic subhumans. Artists should be tolerated, never celebrated and midwits are bound to be the worst kind of fellaters of the fiction writer. Its no coincidence the best philosophers only have nice things to say about the poets and musicians and basically neglect or spite writers.

>>10730780
Not that guy, but it's referring to workshops where you have to read your pieces as a group.

>>10730670
To add to that

>writing erotica and making others listen to you read it aloud
>spends more time talking about writing instruments than writing itself
>"could of"
>doesn't know how to use a comma
>semicolons connecting dependent clauses

>>10730844
>>"could of"
Nothing triggers me more reeeeee

>Harry Potter is the greatest fantasy book of ALL time.
>To kill a mockingbird is basically about whites saving the day. Its overall a racist book.

>>10730829
I'm better than you

>>10729471
>>10730215
Its kind of similar to dumb people who deny scientific consensus or think science is stupid vs dumb people who "fucking love science omg." Neither one actually knows anything about science. One is being willfully dense and ignorant (probably stemming from political or religious reasons) and the other is just going along with the trendy thinking of the day (probably stemming from political or social reasons).

>>10729325
>I had to read this book for class, I hate it because it's racist
>I read this book because it's written by a female author, arguably the greatest author all time, Jane Austen
>You should read Jane Austen lol, her books are like OLD but they're still so modern, you know what I mean?
I have nothing against Jane Austen but a lot of her readers are dumb retards

>>10730844
tfw no gf

>>10730844
>Not that guy, but it's referring to workshops where you have to read your pieces as a group.
Not him either but I still don't get it? They ask them to write 1000 words and they think it's a lot, is that it?

>>10731063
Yes that's it.

I honestly have never heard of anyone complaining about this in a writing workshop/class, though. Most people are there because they enjoy it. I understand that this fictional person just pretends, but still they should at least pretend to enjoy it, right? I took creative writing in college and I don't think I ever heard anyone complaining about any of the assignments, and I know from talking to people that some of them were only there because they thought it would be easy.

While we are describing this person, though:
>Thinks semi-colons are a cure-all for run-on sentences

>>10731063
My professor doesn't give two shits how long a project is, so most people in my class just write the bare minimum. Some people just don't like overachievers.

>>10731201
That's what an em dash is for.

>>10731027
That's cause Austen is entry-level for the classics. English 101 classes always have a novel or two of hers in their syllabus.

>>10729325
>Blocks your path

>>10730826
>Who are Robert E. Howard and Lord Dunsany

>>10730826
It is not on the same tier of Shakespeare though

basically anyone who is involved in "internet culture" (chantards, facebook retards, redditors etc). the internet is the antithesis of literature.
books and stories will always be around but the internet will and has fundamentally undermined serious literature

>>10730829
I feel this is mostly correct, and the compulsion to write fiction is a bug.

>>10730195
>>Ishmael is the best character of Moby Dick
Ishmael as a character far from the best, but as a narrator he's great.

>Mark Twain is a racist
I wanted to kill the girl who said that out loud. She even majored in Literature. Still makes me mad.

>>10730281
I hear this way too often

>>10731595
Yeah ive met those same dumbasses. Also met some who thought to kill a mocking bird is another form of the white mans burden.

>>10729325
>Shakespeare was white

>>10731575
He is still a cringy retard that likes to correct older people

>>10729387
>Russia has the best writers
historically this is true, at least it is way up there

>The only Italian poet they've read is Dante
that would be me, except I haven't read Dante yet

>>10729362
>The Count of Montecristo is the capeshit of its time

That is hilarious I am going to start saying this now.

>>10731697
>>Russia has the best writers
>historically this is true,

>blocks your path

>>10729325
>I don’t like poetry

>>10729325
>Dickens was the Stephen King of his time.

>>10731363
the internet was a mistake

>>10729349
Ironically disliking Shakespeare is something the British upper classes do all the time when they suggest he didn't write any of his plays as they regard him as "pleb," tier in terms of his social status.

>>10732087
I will literally deck anyone who says this in my presence.
The absolute state.

>>10731363
>has fundamentally undermined serious literature

No chance; you can use it to enhance your interest or distort your interest

thinking that Stephen King is a good writer

>>10732763
They're classists, anon. This is a known criticism of the Shakespeare authorship debate.

>>10729387
Only Italian poet I can remember reading is Dante. I like poetry just haven't read Italians specifically. If someone has some recommendations I'll be happy to check them out.

People on this board who suddenly started dropping solzhenitsyn, dostoyestky, freud, jung, nietzsche etc into their replies just because internet daddy mentions them

>>10733027
>solzhenitsyn, dostoyestky, freud, jung, nietzsche
All of those have long been memes on this board besides Solzhenitsyn, and besides that just pretty big figures for the history of ideas from the 19th and 20th century on, again besides Solzhenitsyn.

>>10730307
Read On Writing by Stephen King

His understanding of story is superb

>>10730829
There's just something beautiful and powerful about great literature. I'm not sure anyone has accurately explained it yet. I think you're wrong, anon.

>>10733076

>>10730829
damn...

The drunken crowd banter in the Lawrence Oliver film production of Henry V when they begin the frame narrative at The Globe is great. Really captures the mood of having a few drinks at the theatre with the lads.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOQozTk5Gj0

>>10729325
>oh I love george eliot, he's one of my favorite writers
>evelyn waugh? no, never heard of her

>>10729325
>>10729339
It is true that Shakespeare wrote for mass appeal though. He just happened to be really, really good. That's why it's ironic that there are people who love Shakespeare but are otherwise elitist.

>>10733284
>ywn never drunkenly jeer the Dauphin's foul mock because Shakespeare is supposed to be serious and listened to with dignified respect now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQV1BgwHHaI

It's bullshit lads

>>10730829
God I don't like you.

Art takes talent, dimwit. Yeah, Shakespeare was an artist and not a philosopher. He wrote fiction, not law. Maybe just learn to appreciate decent art, eh? Have you ever read a book to enjoy it, or do you just like complaining about how it would be a waste of time? Incase you didn't notice, this is /lit/, as in a literature thread. For literature. That includes literary fiction, especially when it is done well, such as the works of Shakespeare.

>>10729325
"At least it gets kids into reading."

If prose is not clean and simple it is purple therefore bad writing.

>>10729373
Yes. It is incredibly common. Even my liter-ture teacher said it.

>>10733344
Anyone that thinks Tolstoy is boring doesn't deserve books. Why would you touch literature if you don't enjoy Tolstoy?

>>10729325
>rhyming is childish
>prose is superior to poetry

>>10733366
sorry but moliere and poe are unreadable, fuck rhymes

>>10733378
You've just Identified yourself

>>10733403
NOIDED

>>10729362
>The Count of Montecristo is the capeshit of its time

>>10730157
>>10730192
>>10730329
Plot is external, events that happen push the narrative. Story is internal emotions and events that effect the protagonist, think of it as character or idea development. Some stories can be weighted on the plot, ie James bond, anything by Hemingway, in contrast, novels weighted on story such as, perhaps James Joyce and Shakespeare.

>>10731351
nigger what

>>10733361
That was only one of the literature teachers. Another told me Tolstoy is one of the authors who must be read and re-read throughout one’s life. Yet another raved about the incredibly human characters.

>>10733076
>What can people say about literature that IDs them as a pleb of the highest order?
>>10733076

>>10729391
who is the short storiest?

>>10730829
>Shakespeare isn't even remotely as interesting as teh greeks

>>10729325
unless those kind of people can form opinions or just decide "Hey, I personally don't like it for whatever reason, oh well," they are mearly reactionaries against the status-quo idea of Shakespeare being legendary.

>>10730829
Beauty need not justify itself. Now fuck off back to whatever retard hole you crawled out of, swine.

>>10733033
Solzhenitsyn was an important figure long before Peterson came around. I saw a day in the life of Ivan desinovich recommended here years before Peterson became a prominent figure.

>>10730631
Were you talking to him or the past you?

Any sort of conspiracy about Shakespeare not writing his plays
The cookier the author they identify, the worse

>>10729325
>What can people say about literature that IDs them as a pleb of the highest order?
"I don't read genre fiction".

>>10729325
>shakespeare sucks
wow

>>10734430
This. I always ask these people to talk a little about the actual work, and how half of it is clearly in west midlands dialect. None of them have read a word of Hamlet or a Sonnet.

>>10734423
>no u
nice 1

>>10733486
This is a good point. No-one seems to have given it a (you), so I will.

>>10733486

This is a good point but I disagree with the idea that Hemingway hangs his story on his plot more than Shakespeare does.

Think of, for example, A Clean Well-Lighted Place - it's ALL story.
Or The Killers - sure, there's a bit more "plot" there, but really the story is almost independent of that.

Only an *nglo could believe Shakespeare is good.

>>10730670
Are you the teacher?

>>10729362
>Mann is style over substance
I don't get it, do people actually think this?
>>10732971
Petrarca, d'Annunzio, Leopardi.

>>10733544
He either means Gogol or Chekov.
If he means Pushkin I'll shoot him.

>>10729387
>>Russia has the best writers
That's true, though it's mostly said by people who have only read Tolstoyevsky.

>>10730829
>shakespeare isn’t even remotely as interesting as the greeks he is aping
lel, really displayed your erudition there

>>10733366
>a subpar am*rican poet and one french dramatist
>therefore rhyme is bad
moron

>>10733544
probably Gogol'

>>10735539
I guess this is why the masterpiece of the second half of the 20th century in German was named for his character, Zettels Traum. kys pal

>>10733292
He wrote for both. There are things to please people at a very shallow level and then there things to please people at a deeper level

That is why he is great

>>10730844
Why do people attend schools to learn how to write. Absolutely absurd.

>>10729362
>Hesse is for teenagers
Hesse is for westerners who want to learn about eastern religions but don't want to read the texts.

>>10730829
>Ive never in my life met someone above a midwit who drew from his works to prove a point philosophically.

Who the fuck quotes from fiction to validate a logical conclusion? What kind of fucking inbred shit-drinking mongoloids are you reading?

>>10729339
>shakespeare’s plays had dick jokes in them
They do, though.

>>10735822
I already know how to write. I'm just trying to hone my skills. Writing classes also provide me with people who are willing to give me feedback on my writing.

Why don't you tell us what your problem is with writing classes?

>>10735868
Think of all the great writers and poets. Did a single one of them attend writing classes? You're already admitting to yourself your mediocrity by attending these classes for actual monies.

>>10735828
No, Hesse is for pederasts who have a penchant for poetry and vague philosophizing.

>>10735917
That's the fucking point, my friend. I'm a regular Joe who just happens to enjoy writing. I am not and never will be on the level of the writers that /lit/ places on the pedestal. Get over yourself.

>>10735948
Why should I "get over myself"? That's fine to be an average. I just had the suspicion most people on /lit/ wanted to be great. Nothing against you man.

>>10735917
Yeah actually, the best writers from the middle-ages onward were people trained from a young age in latin and greek, who at least had literature taught to them. While that's not creative writing, to think that you can get around to becoming a great writer with just a basic understanding of english and enough talent is silly, and to think that training is admitting your mediocrity is even sillier. You certainly won't be a great writer or poet with that attitude.

>>10735987
I didn't say that reading, learning or training your craft is admitting to mediocrity, I said attending creative writing classes is admitting to mediocrity. Its a circlejerk for mediocrities to get published in small presses and then continue the circlejerk for a while before they're all forgotten.

>>10735999
Creative writing is mostly just writing short stories and poems. In fact, that's how most authors trained, writing short stories and poems before they get around to writing a novel. What difference does it make that you write short stories and poems at home or in college?

>>10736017
>What difference does it make that you write short stories and poems at home or in college?
I already told you the difference. Writing is supposed to be a solitary endeavor. Why do you think creative writing programs produce mostly identical, trite, cool-sounding crap? Because it reinforces a certain aesthetic and dead-end. Creative writing classes are cancerous to creativity.

>doesn’t like a book just because the main character isn’t a good person

>>10735868
who that my dude

>>10736042
>writing is supposed to be a solitary endeavor
I think this sentence is dead wrong.

>>10736080
ok

>>10730195
I'd consider Tolkein classic for children's literature. It's basically the gateway drug to Ancient literature. a 10 year old who has read LotR will be well prepared for reading The Odyssey.

>>10730281
It's true that Superhero's are the mythology of our day; however, that's not saying they're great, but rather that our culture is shitty.

>Coriolanus is his best play

>>10730090
lol, you'd probably play hamlet straight.

>>10730829
You're supposed to read fiction for the prose you idiot.

>>10735868
Why do you believe their opinion is worthwhile?

>>10736541
For what it's worth, they're pretty much the best representation of the same people who are going to buy your writing—common people, for a lack of a better term.

It's good to get in-person reactions, anyway. Why is everyone here so afraid of criticism?

>>10735729
>I'll shoot him

kek

>>10735843
But that doesn't make him dumb.

>rhyming is for losers, the only REAL poetry is experimental post-ante-experi-modernism about the plight of minorities and women

>>10731349
nice filename

>>10730829
Wew lad

>>10735810
G*rmans are just *nglos in denial

>>10736802
Yes it does

You do realize your post is basically just 'I AM SILLY' except you don't even have a pseud argument, you actually don't attempt to refute anything they say, you just declare that they need to be gassed for it because killing people who disagree with you if the pinnacle of humor in your mind, as would be expected from shitspeare fan.

he regurgitates meme grammar like "you can't end a sentence with a preposition!", "X arbitrary non linguistic punctuation mark can only be used for Y purpose!","You can't use good as an adverd even though both native and non native speakers will understand you!". Or even worse "X dialect pronounces Y word wrong".

>>10729325
he's not lowbrow because he wrote for the masses, he's lowbrow because he's anglo and anglo's have no knowledge of the soul or anything that is not material

>>10739055
So tarantino is dumb?

>>10739090
?
The british islanders are the least materialist of all Europeans.

>>10740246
Well obviously

>>10736423
>>10736423
>Superheroes are the mythology of our day
No, no, no, fuck you.
Mythology means "A collection of stories meant to explain the origins of a people", just because the Greek "mythos" translates loosely as "story" it doesn't mean one branch of today's popular commercial narrative is trying to explain our world from the origin.
Superheroes are the knight novellas of our time, tho.

>>10730066
>>only writes about one topic
This can be okay if you're genuinely good. Some topics can be explored for a long time.

>>10741121
1. That's not what a mythos is.
2. When I claim that superheros have become the mythos of our times, I mean that literally they have become the religious text that teaches about right living. The knight novellas existed in a time where most people believed in Christianity. Now, most people don't believe in anything, and so the stories of our superheros take on the same cultural and moral significance as any other epic cycle. They are the origin story of post-modern man.

>>10730829
>You confuse the beauty and eloquence of his works with meaning and importance.
You can argue the importance of form and aesthetics when judging the quality of a work, but Shakespeare is still read because of the psychological depth of his characters, not necessarily the beauty of his verse.

>>10741142
What a load of bullshit.
Yes, mythos are cosmogonies. Just because you read secularized versions of mythos from people like Homer or Ovidius it doesn't mean the core stories weren't taken literally or alegorically as a mean to explain the world. I think it was Bacon who wrote about several myths and the interpretation he got from them. Those myths tried to explain complex things like politics, morality, tradition or war, they were not stories produced in the midst of a consume economy in order to provide entertainment.
I happen to be Spanish, from the country where most knight novellas (novela de caballerías) were written and bought. And I use "bought" because they were products, not the folklore of a community, just entertainment products that were en vogue for some odd 50 years and were mocked by Cervantes.
>Now, most people don't believe in anything
Yeah well, God is dead and all that shit, but we're still living inside his corpse. Our ethics are judeo-christian, not stemming from Superman or Batman comics. And if they were, then where the fuck does the Superman idea of helping the needed come from?
This is getting too long so I'm gonna stop here.
tl;dr: think before posting

>>10729373
It might be the translation but I absolutely hate the way Tolstoy writes.
>there was a man
>he was a general
>he was middle aged with brown hair and wore a uniform
>he was very quiet
>there was a woman
>she was very talkative
It reads like YA-tier garbage

>>10730826
>Tolkien invented fantasy
>by copying the mythos that fantasy stems from that already existed for thousands of years

>>10741192
We are a nihilistic consumerist society. Our religion is consumption. We are defined by what we buy. Brands identities are our tribal identities. Comic books did not begin as our mythos--they began as children's stories. But now the common person knows nothing of the classics, knows little to nothing of the bible. People turn to comic book stories to determine their opinion on politics, morality, tradition, etc. Why do you think Black Panther is such a big deal right now? For a lot of people, it represents a major philosophical statement. The exegesis of the Marvel Universe is used much like the torah. Some are more orthodox, accepting only certain scriptures as genuine, while others are more liberal, going so far as to even accept fanfictions into their cannon. Yes they are products, but everything in our society has become a product, even time itself. How many people in America today are familiar with Paul Bunyan or Pecos Bill, or the Native American coyote stories, or John Henry? Our comic books, beginning as cheap pulp, have become almost the sole content of our folk stories. Consider that one of the most revered Pixar films is The Incredibles. Look at what Comic-con has become. It is essentially now a pilgrimage for millions of devotees. These stories have now become divorced from their own origins, and begin to reflect upon themselves.

>>10741216
You have to understand that the Russian's are very droll.

>>10742081
You see, the thing with nihilism is, everyone knows it's true, but nobody believes it. Most people in the West follow the teachings of Christ, be they secularized or literal; or at least recognize them as Good (you gotta have some ethical framework to define Good and Bad, and that certainly doesn't come from Spiderman fighting Venom) By your own argument, you're describing our society as nihilistic while affirming we have values. People raging online because some fag uses an iPhone instead of muh Chinese ripoff is not a tribal identity, it's not your world, just a fraction of how you relate to consuming. Same way comics are not cosmogonies, but a product taken for entertainment, sometimes hyped beyond reasoning (like in the ComicCon) but none of that shows signs of a religion. Spirituality, a relationship with being and a higher meaning are absent.
Maybe it's because I don't live in America, but I encourage you to step out of your home and take a look around, then check if people's daily moral compass points towards secularized Christendom or Superman comics.
I've yet to see anyone turning to comic books to understand political or moral issues better, and no, "Trump is just like Voldemort" doesn't count.
Black Panther is hitting it hard because when movies cater to African Americans they always follow the same tropes, trying to appeal to reason. Black Panther, which I am yet to see, is a big ass blockbuster that celebrates black people as something unique with lotsa fireworks and violence. It's not a Bible, a Quran or a Torah. People don't gather around to pray to it. You need to clarify some concepts before making such overarching assumptions.

>>10729325
that book is sooooo borrrring