/lit/ - Literature

You've got to control yourself, that's all.

>>10599439
He's describing something impossible from normal state of consciousness.

Unfortunately Christianity can't help you attain the higher state where you can be like that.

>>10599480
Break on through to the other side.

Yes. No one is perfect but Christ, that's kinda the idea. The focus is on the striving to be like Christ even though you will fail at times.

>>10599506
>The focus is on the striving to be like Christ even though you will fail at times.
Do you mean literally all the time? Doesn't make sense to me either that I should be held responsible by divine law for occurrences which are automatic in my nature.

Try harder.

>>1059946

>>10599480
Yes it absolutely is, it's called saint hood

>>10599439
he is simply stating that Potentials are Realities and all that is missing to actualize them is the proper circumstances or series of events; therefor, know thyself, discipline thyself, and don't rely on avoidance to maintain your innocence

>>10599530
You're flawed by original sin; it's like a disorder, because that was not our original nature when God created the first humans.

You're being held responsible for your actions not your temptations. You don't have give into the evil temptation. It's automatic in the natural of our original sin to want to do wrong things. It's not automatic that we do wrong things; we have free will to decide to do good or evil. We all know it's hard to do good, but sorry nothing worth having in life is easy.

and yeah, you ought to focus on trying to emulate Christ 24/7

diff anon btw

>>10599530
>automatic in my nature
But you could change that

>>10599548
You can't discipline your hormones away.

>>10599557
You're right, we should take androgen blockers.

>>10599558
But you can. How do monks and saints do it if not by their will?

>>10599548
this tbqh, Sin is a state of being or intrinsic quality, not an action

>>10599563
That's a determinist kind of thinking. You can choose to work towards not being lustful.

>>10599573
Thats what was said in the beginning

>>10599558
>missing the point

>>10599578
So what's your point? Do you think we can't overcome our hormonal inclinations?

The Virgin Mary was probably just a slut

>>10599530
I mean if you are asking me personally I interpret that particular line to be a criticism of the general philosophy of the old laws laid out in the pentateuch, which (very broad strokes here) tend to be laws laid down, with generally pretty severe punishments with no regard for invent or context or anything, while the philosophy presented in the gospels is generally more focused on intent and holds the possibility of forgiveness at its core (although remember that the gospels were written at different times by different dudes and aren't exactly a fight thesis anyway).
Anyhow, not a priest, but you could always make time to go ask one of them, don't they study to have this kind of conversation in the seminary?

>>10599584
that means somehow a fucking 15 year old was the kingpin of Christianity, orchestrating all those in the NT to happen

big if true
definitely not true

>>10599564
They masturbate in their cells after vespers.

>>10599548
OP here. This makes sense, but my God, what a difficult road this is in this hypersexualized culture.

How do I change what's become a habit for me?

>>10599597
amen, it is so hypersexualized.

Good way to combat it is to get porn blockers on your computer and phone. You should get someone you trust to hold the passwords to the porn blockers too. I didn't have another person helping me, but I actually went 115 days without jacking off. Unfortunately now i give in like once every month. But i've taken huge steps in the right direction. You gotta pray a ton about it. Keep yourself preoccupied (idle hands are the devil's workshop).

>>10599597
A little bit at a time.

>>10599597
Junger defines Discipline as "the way in which Man maintains contact with pain." In this case, it is the pain of the deprivation of a pleasure.

And to help maintain, try to realize that such a standard of existence is too petty, beneath being worthy of continuance. Strive ever for what is higher, more excellent, etc.

Bone up on Platonism and Neoplatonism. I'm finding them to be a great help for this sort of thing

Eliot is good as well. He has a few lines that go like: "I said to my soul, be still, and wait without hope, for hope would be hope of the wrong thing. Wait without love, for love would be love of the wrong thing."

Look at it that way. Of all the things that a soul or human intellect could devote or occupy itself with, is this really worth it? Of the course the answer will invariably be: no, it is the love or want for the wrong thing. Later on Eliot says: "wait without thought, for you are not ready for thought". and that's the point where you will sit in for a while, not even being able to articulate why you are enduring, only that you endure because you are enduring and you are enduring because you endure ad infinitum

But keep reading those Greeks

>>10599627
I resight to insight

'Endure'

>>10599609
Good thing my hands are never idle then when I masturbate.

>>10599671
nah, that just means you're his worker now

>>10599439
He is instituting thoughtcrime. He is setting a standard he knows is impossible to attain in order to claim complete control. He is not asking you to control your sinful thoughts; he is stating that you have already sinned for simply having them. It's not just about sexual matters, of course; this is a parable, it's meaning extends across. Therefore one can never be not guilty; one is guilty by merely being.

>>10599704
Work you love doing is not work at all, anon.

>>10599480
ahahahhhahahahhahahahahahaha, bad opinion

>>10599439
>God writes a book
>Writes it in one single language
>Eventually gets translated into something people can understand
>Different translations say different things
>Follow the book or go to hell
???

How did a religion based on self-flagellation and woe-is-me become the most prominent religion on Earth? How could so many humans be tricked into hating their nature?

>>10599439
if you can't take communion when you are in a state of mortal sin, and confession is usually on saturday, does that mean that no one can take communion since we will invariably commit some mortal sin between saturday afternoon and saturday evening / sunday morning?

>>10599439
Does it count if you aren't a married man though?

If masturbation is so bad, then why is it to a certain extent, healthy for the human body?

I would think that if it were so fundamentally evil, it would have no benefits whatsoever.

>>10600058
Fear of the unknown/unknowable being given shitty potentialities.

>>10600089
What is healthy about it?

>>10600103
I don't need to spoonfeed you, just google "is masturbation healthy?"

There are tons of scientific articles about the benefits.

>>10600112
Sounds like you are putting to much self worth into science

>>10600115
The same way you put too much into religion?

Judge not lest ye be judged yourself anon.

>>10600120
? How so?
I was just asking about health

>>10599439
Lust is not the same as noticing that a girl is pretty for example.

If you are in relationship and you look at other women in sexual way, that is lusting. If you notice a pretty girl and you think to yourself she good looking, that is not lust but human nature of noticing other people and appreciating beauty.

we are born in sin and categorically can never escape it

hell is the deserved outcome of every human life

salvation cannot be earned and is entirely a gift from God given at His will

>>10599439
>But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart

Is Christianity the stupidest religion ever invented?

Thought and acting on said thought are NOT one in the same.

>>10600146
Whence comes the river but the stream?

>>10600137
Wrong

>>10600175
When man no longer wades, but sinks.

>>10600175
>>10600180
ooooh, you sure showed me with those empty poetic snippets.

>>10600194
Pooh as you do, use your face as your porcelain water vase.

>>10599977
How do you know it's impossible? Maybe right off the bat, but saints got there

>>10599988
>he loves masturbating

>>10600058
Because Jesus truly did rise from the dead. Only explanation.

/a/ agrees that is cheating on your waifu

>>10599439
I always interpretted it as sin is a matter of the heart and your ability to actualize it is irrelevant. Like, if you want to fornicate but you just don't get the chance, you still made the decision in your heart to reject God.

>>10600194
>empty
Before an act there is thought of doing an act. Some thoughts are more powerful than others, like lust. It's why covet your neighbors wife and such is the only thought based commandment, because if you start thinking about it it's only a matter of time and circumstance that you may try to.

>>10599439
>Is the point here that we are all sinners?
NO SHIT SHERLOCK It's n1 point of Christianity

>>10599530
If You TRY it will become possible to You to succeed sometimes by Grace.
It's called sainthood.

>>10599541
Christianity can't help you become a saint.

>>10599591
Thank You good anon that was very helpful.
>>10600112
There are just as many on the capacity of porn to Cause psychological dependency and on the avverse effects on self control of daily dopamine and serotonine spykes.

>>10599439

Yes, we're all sinful. That is why we need Christ.

>>10599439
>it is impossible to not want to fuck your friend's girlfriend

>>10599597
Stop masturbating and stop looking at pornography. Easier said than done, but it can be done. Once you realize that it is a disgusting act that accomplishes nothing except further corruption, it will be easier to let go.

>>10599609
>You gotta pray a ton about it. Keep yourself preoccupied
This is also good advice.

>>10599627
This is also good advice.

>>10600089
Not sure why it's healthy. Could be the case, could not be the case.

But I'm more interested as to why you feel fucking awful every time you cum. weird how that works.

i don't really trust the sexual teachings as practiced by the modern church cause every church i've been to has had someone in leadership be some sort of weird pedophile. it makes me think the moderns are right and sexual repression just makes everything worse.

>>10601374
idk man, the lack of "sexual repression" caused by the sexual revolution in the 60's has really fucking back fired. Look at how Hollywood is crumbling down, ya know?

>>10601382
eh if the church started preaching about how we need to stop pedophiles or rapists etc. i'd agree. but i mostly hear stuff about how it's bad to have sex with your girlfriend or live together before marriage or be gay or something.

>>10601374
>>10601393
I think you are making sweeping generalizations. Many priests do exactly that, speak against sexual perversion and corruption from within the church. The only difference is that only the actual pederasts are shown in the media. Sexual repression is only a problem to the easily corrupted, and those without discipline.

>>10601424
i don't really follow media cases, i'm only speaking about churches i have actually attended where people i've actually met and interacted with ended up being pedos and being convicted etc

>>10601433
sorry to hear that man; that's awful :/

but that's anecdotal still. Granted all the cases of the past two centuries(20th and 21th), it's not like every priest is a rapist and pedophile.

And too, the Church is not impeccable; I wish it could be. There has been plenty of worse corruption and scandal that the modern sex scandal. And I mean worse than this... And for some unfathomable reason, the Church still stands.

If the Church were not the true Church, the Church founded by Christ, the Church guided by the Holy Spirit, and it was riddled with tons and tons of evil men, it would have collapsed within weeks.

There's a story in the Decameron, (Day 1, story 2) that puts this idea beautifully. You should look it up, or look up a summary

here's two different summaries:
http://www.easylitnotes.com/2014/07/summary-of-boccaccios-decameron-day-1_73.html

https://www.shmoop.com/decameron/day-1-story-2-summary.html

>>10601360
If you feel fucking awful, you either do it too much or have a religiously inspired guilt complex about it. I wouldn't underestimate the latter the mind is a powerful thing.

Truth be told my life tends to be better during the periods where I masturbate less usually because I'm busy enough that I have fewer opportunities to. I feel like this is true of many people (a reformulation would be that frequent masturbators are not fully engaged in their lives) here masturbation is just a result, it isn't the lifestyle factor itself that causes personal dissatisfaction.

>>10601016
Wrong

>>10599439
I don't think being attracted to someone is the same as lusting after them. Lusting after implies that you are trying to fuck them or would if you had the chance, even if you coincidentally haven't yet.

>>10601360
>I'm more interested as to why you feel fucking awful every time you cum
Anon, that's not a universal thing.

>>10599439
Try Hinduism. Kama (desire) is an important part of life and it should be taken care of, but a life devoted to kama alone is bad because other aspects of your life fall apart, such as phisical/mental well-being (artha), morality (dharma) and the achievement of a higher spiritual condition (moksha).

>>10599439
>Is the point here that we are all sinners?

you dont really 'get' Christianity huh

>>10601477
Wrong

>>10599506
If Jesus never got a boner from looking at a hot girl he had something wrong with his deveolopment during puberty.

Even gay guys occasionally get turned by women.

>wat is original sin

>>10601360
>But I'm more interested as to why you feel fucking awful every time you cum

I don't though.

Sounds like a you problem, religcuck.

>all these replies
Just a reminder that the bible also says to stone anyone who works on Sunday.
Quite childish to argue over something like this, isn't it?

>>10599480
This, really. Jesus was not even Arahat, and organized Christianity is a sad spiritual joke.

>inb4 triggered Christians

>>10603232
lol but dats dem joose tho, not dem christians!

>>10599462
Its the opposite, its that the spirit of adultery is just as important as the act itself.
Its not enough just to control yourself if you're still a disrespectful degenerate in your mind

>>10603345
*stops existing*

lol bye!

>>10599597
try to jerk off with only your imagination of women you intend on interacting with, stop watching porn and do not jerk off multiple times a day ever eventually you will lose interest and it will be something you do on occassion rather than as routine. beyond that its not hard, just calm the fuck down when you see lewd shit. people post titcows and braphogs constantly on here and /fit/ and i don’t bat an eye at them because i can controm myself. i jerk off when i want to

>>10599480
>christ is on a higher state of consciousness
>following christ cannot take you to a higher state of consciousness

>>10601668
So why haven't you done so? Looking forward to Hell?

>>10603232
The Sabbath is saturday.