/lit/ - Literature

Its not surprising really. A lot of people believe that life is suffering. A lot of people believe that its wrong to make people suffer. So its to be expected that a lot of people will consider it wrong to bring people into life who will end up suffering.

>>10598481
Stems from ideological misanthropy. Take Environmentalism for example which derides humans as problematic "parasites". Or Modern & Post-Modern philosophy which strips divinity from the human condition.

Ingrain enough nihilism into the collective unconscious over a few generations, and this will becomes manifest.

>>10598545
most antinatalism that calls itself such has nothing to do with politics or environment

>>10598481
It's really a pity, since existence is the greatest gift of reality.

>>10598545
>Take Environmentalism for example which derides humans as problematic "parasites".
Not all environmentalism is ecocentrist. Plenty of philosophers, cultural critics, and politicians/governments in the 20th century have been environmentalist without putting it over the needs of mankind. I'm sure there are more pleasant examples, but Nazi Germany.

>>10598571
gift to whomst?

"Happiness" is a coping mechanism and the last bit of motivation needed in helping biological inertia in keeping you alive.

>>10598481
>going to law school
People actually do this?

>>10598606
you, me, anyone. Life is beautiful.

>>10598663
So you're saying that I was given to myself?

>>10598481
>believe

It's a preference, not a belief.

>>10598545
Environmentalism exists to serve mankind. We are a part of nature and the earth will continue to spin no matter how much we affect the environment. New life will continue to evolve. Environmentalism exists to keep the world in a state that humans want to/can live in

>>10598703
>people prefer to be depressed

nice meme

Heh, what if I said I was an anti-antinatalist.

>>10598694
yes, would you like to return your gift?

>>10598663
No it's not. Universe in general is a catastrophe.

>>10598909
you can't just say "yes" to something like that! I just pointed out a logical inconsistency

>>10598927
I guess life is like cumming in your own mouth.

>>10598942
Well, that was also a bad idea looking back, so you might be on to something.

What are any good reasons to have a kid though?

>>10598949
It's a free sex doll

>>10598953

>>10598927
how is it a logical inconsistency to be given to yourself?

>>10598962
>even brainlet russel knew this one

>>10598949
You blend in with then normies and you have someone to visit you when you rot in a retirement home after your wife has passed away given you raised your kid in a way that didn't make him or her hate you.There also might be comfort in not being a biological failure.

>>10598545
Environmentalism doesn’t consider humans parasites its concerned with preserving the inegrity of the biome so all life can subsist and coexist, continue evolving. It recognizes the contextual importance of the many species in our web of being who allow for Humans to flourish and provide us with safety from our own excesses. You’re just a stupid fucking /pol/ nigger who’d glass the whole planet to make money. A Germanic Kike basically, except Kikes vaguely care about the environment and seem to have a sense of respect for animals. You all only feign the barest form of environmental sense as Nazis nd actually despise animals hence why you love domesticaing, slaughtering, hunting them senselessly and displaying their body parts for status. Basically apes with turbines and fission. We should’ve steamrolled all of Germany when we had the chance

>>10599059

>life is very difficult
>therefore we should kill everyone

great """solution""" dude

>>10599173
>promortalism and antinatalism are the same thing

we've been over this

>>10599184
two logically distinct definitions can be functionally the same. don't play dumb

>>10599173
Death solves everything and life solves nothing. I sure hope you're not being retarded on purpose

>>10599196
they can be but they aren't

>>10598481

The world has been completely ruined, and no one is even trying to turn things around. Human beings simply do not care about our children or the future. Since the dawn of civilization its been obvious to any thinking person that the world we built is inhuman and it would be irresponsible to bring a child here. It seems that humans are the only animals who torture themselves and their children this way.

No one even tries to justify reproduction. This is because there is no justification, and people who reproduce don't care about justifying anything. People are shameless hypocrites. They are so selfish they simply will not admit they brought children into the world for the sake of vanity and economy.

Premise 1: Privations are not qualities in themselves
Premise 2: appetites are privations
Premise 3: It is necessary for there to be appetites (in the form of wants needs and impulses) for there to be personal being

-Harm is the privation of Benefit just as Bad is the privation of Good
-A Being can be benefitted or harmed on the basis of their personal wants, needs and impulses (whatever those may be) being either fulfilled or frustrated respectively
-A maximization of benefit would be to have the entire record of wants needs and impulses nullified
-A being without appetites fails to be a personal being (premise 3)
-The maximization of benefit creates a condition already satisfied in the non-existence of a personal being
-therefore coming into existence is to be harmed

QED fuckers.

>>10599243
>People are shameless hypocrites.
Not really. They don't operate by the same ideological guidelines that you do, and most don't have any at all. If anything you're at bigger fault because you're ideologically opposed to humanity and humans being here and yet here you are. Guaranteed if you manage to find a good relationship where you feel challenged and understood you'll outgrow this. It's babby's first misanthrope phase taken to lame extremes.

>>10599273
why couldn't brainlet benatar come up with something like this?

>>10599274
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

No one who believes this would qualify as a person. They may as well be a cockroach. And they're not even being authentic if they haven't committed suicide yet.

>>10599333

see

>>10599323

>>10599274
>antinatalism is misanthropic

Oh really, compared to what for instance? Religion?

>People don't matter, only God matters! Now lets create more people that in all probablity will be thrown into the bowels of hell for all eternity

kek

>>10599359
This is the mind of your typical antinatalist on display, folks. Make of that what you will.

>>10599410

no, this is

>>10599273

>>10599323
That would only apply if we were talking about the one party. Not that I really care if you fight to view the world in this way - if you want to work hard to emotionally and spiritually isolate yourself from your fellow man that is your call. I wouldn't advise it, but it's your rodeo, hoss.

>>10599459
arguments are not dependent on the people expressing them, sorry.

>>10598481
seeing as the people who believe in antinatalism tend to also believe in unrestricted migration and that america and europe have an overpopulation problem, my guess is that most dont

>>10598694
you make the choice to be alive every waking moment, you cant make the case that death is preferable to life without being dead

>>10599484
No, i don't decide this, the one who sets thing in motion does

>>10598949
it gives you immense power for a long period of time

>>10599484
I never made that case.

>>10599459
>some guy says 2+2=4
>proceeds to consistently do math wrong by assigning wrong values to "2"
>therefore 2+2 =/= 4

Do you not see the problem with this kind of argument?

>>10599486
so you dont have free will?
then antinatalism is idiotic because nobody can choose anything

>>10599475
Don't be a passive man who has resigned all imagination and spiritual experience due to pretentious indifference.

Arguments in the end are just words, and what is a word compared to a deed? Have you got any fight left in you?

>>10599494
the only alternative to life is death, its one or the other.

>>10599499
>Do you not see the problem with this kind of argument?
You can elect any set of mental gymnastic that you want to help you arrive at anemic resignation, if that is what you so wish.

>>10599507
I choose life. I never said otherwise. I hope you're not doing that thing where you think all the posters you appear to disagree with are the same person.

>>10599274

I am not ideologically opposed to humanity or humans being here. I am not a misanthrope either. You assumed these things for your own personal reasons. Furthermore, I imagine only the total absence of honest thought on this matter could lead you to think there is something to be gained by starting an argument over whose 'fault' whatever youre talking about is.

You are so far from being honest with yourself in regards to this matter that you leapt to the assumption that I had these beliefs because of my own loneliness or lack of maturity -- you did not even consider that they could come from consideration of reasoned morale principles. Please reconsider any illusions you may have about worldliness or understanding...

Anyway, I want a happy and decent life for everyone. I don't even believe in evil and I would love to rebuild the world with everyone. I think a decent moral existence is easily achievable for people, and that that is a desirable end. I would like to raise a child myself someday, with the girl I have been with for several years.

However, unless something radical changes, I will not, because of my commitment to basic moral principles (my own personal ideology is that morality exists). No thinking person would argue the world we are building is a world worth sharing with our children. If people wanted to have children for the right reasons we would actually dedicate ourselves to fixing things

>>10599511
Ignoring the only logical argument in the thread is resignation. You've done that. I accept your concession.

>>10599501
???? Life exists and so does free will.

Ending ones life doesn't end all life

>>10599512
im doing that thing where two anonymous posters replied to me claiming to be the author of the post i replied to and i have no way of knowing who is telling the truth

>>10599501
>then (literally any ideology here) is idiotic because nobody can choose anything

ftfy

>>10599513
You spent most of this post trying to chide me over reading into your character wrong and then you editorialize what it was that you initially meant to begin with
>Anyway, I want a happy and decent life for everyone.
>I would love to rebuild the world with everyone.
>I think a decent moral existence is easily achievable for people, and that that is a desirable end.
>I would like to raise a child myself someday, with the girl I have been with for several years.
which happens to be vastly different from the sentiment that you were expressing last post. Do you not see how you do this?

>>10599518
how does that relate to your previous post? i feel like there is no conversation here just random thoughts

>>10599542
Dharma I'm talking about.

The creator is outside the system, and he put our life in our own hands, to experience the part inbetween life and death

>>10599527
then thought is idiotic because nobody can choose anything

>>10599525
>two people reply to the same post
>they're both claiming to be the guy who started the line of conversation

so you run on AAA batteries?

>>10599516
>Ignoring the only logical argument in the thread is resignation. You've done that. I accept your concession.
It's not even an argument. It's a middling tedium. You can't see that you're operating under a Cartesian post-Enlightenment lobotomy that has severely delimited your potential gnosis and supra-sensible faculties. The people who actually rule you don't even think like you btw.

>>10599546
You said it, not me.

>>10599550
>>>/x/

>>10599525
Look, Im not sure what you are saying, but why are you claiming to post as me?

>>10599486
>No, i don't decide this, the one who sets thing in motion does
>The creator is outside the system, and he put our life in our own hands
either you are the son of god or your mom used her own free will to create you not god

>>10599566
Our higher self gives input through are subconscious.

We are also all Sons of God.

>>10599550
the schizophrenic rambling is a nice bonus to the philosophical victory. Thanks.

>>10599560
Rude.

>>10599574
which one of your personalities am i speaking to now?

>>10599575
Happy to help, friend. Remember: life is what you make it!

>>10599582
Giancarlo O'Harris

>>10599601
>life is what you make it

nihilism in a nutshell

>>10599579
Spoken like a true roastie. Reading really is a feminine hobby. Back to your containment board >>>/cgl/

>>10599607
That's what some have chosen it seems. A shame. Perhaps they are just going through bad times? I hope so.

>>10599611
WOWOWOW could you, like, PLEASE not??? I can't even.

>>10599582
Haha funny

>>10599612
>the meaning of life is subjective
>not nihilistic

>>10599629
>life is worthless
>not nihilistic

>>10599540

I spent HALF (not most) of my post explaining to you why your ENTIRE post likely indicated some serious flaws in your character. You can say I was 'chiding' you if you want but look -- you won't even defend the way you thought to approach the matter. Well I hope you reconsider and ask yourself why you felt the need to act that small.

Anyway, I don't care about whatever reasons you make up to avoid introspection. To answer your question, no I don't see whatever you're talking about. I haven't contradicted myself at all. Its more likely you are playing pretend again and fantasizing that I'm a hypocrite so you don't actually have to confront reality.

>>10599650
Hey calm it there bucko

Clean your room

>>10599273
Nobody has made any attempt to refute this. If you found this written on a piece of paper and stapled to a tree would you tell the tree to go kill itself?

>>10599650
>To answer your question, no I don't see whatever you're talking about. I haven't contradicted myself at all.
LOL okay.

Who even cares. Keep up the pity party if you want. Keep telling yourself it is the result of proper "introspection" and not the byproduct of errant megalomania. Pity it up all you want. Twat.

>>10599668
no, I would tell the person who wrote it to kill themselves

>>10599661

?????

>>10599677

Damn, the fact that you laughed out loud is making me reconsider. Damn, maybe I really am a twat. Savage post man, nice brain.

>>10599819
Can you read

>>10599819
>Damn, maybe I really am a twat.
You really are, yes.

>>10599692
what if they already did?

>>10600237
Deep

>>10600246
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philipp_Mainländer

>>10600266
Im radical

>>10600267
Not in this thread, you aren't.

Antinatalism is easily one of the most important philosophies that has or will ever exist.
It's existence alone carries such weight it's staggering.

>>10600620
>its existence alone carries such weight its staggering
>has mostly been ignored for centuries
>will continue to be ignored

>>10600632

What if I told you the fact that its been ignored carries an even greater weight than any previously mentioned weights.
I must warn you, it may be a weight too great for you to bear

>>10600648
is antinatalism the despair code