/lit/ - Literature

>>10590464
ENOUGH PETERSON THREADS!!

MOMMY MOMMY WHERE MY TENDIES MOMMY MOMMY TENDIES TENDIES

>>10590465
he taught me to clean my room to be honest

>>10590465
CRASHING THIS BOARD WITH NO SURVIVORS

>>10590465
ACCELERATIONISM. BOARD WAR NOW!

>>10590504
u/acc be like

>>10590464
https://www.viewpointmag.com/2018/01/23/postmodernism-not-take-place-jordan-petersons-12-rules-life/

Do you think if you sent Peterson this article and he read it that he'd have the good faith and intellectual humility to perhaps adjust his rhetoric and maybe even to admit some degree of rashness in his judgements? Do you think he'd put his head down to work things out more thoroughly, read more books, put pen to paper, engage more powerfully with the intellectual currents he wishes to understand and make accountable?

>>10590630
Obviously not, if he actually wanted to understand and engage intellectually with the postmodernists he would have already done so. But stopping being a demagogue isn't profitable.

>>10590465
haha /r/enoughpetersonspam amrite

>>10590671
yes unironically

>>10590464
I want peterson fags to get permabanned, there is like 10 threads daily about him

Another one

>be Jordan Memerson
>want to make a lot of $$$ and gain notoriety quickly
>perform the brave, heroic act of refusing to use someone's gender pronouns
>get worshiped as a hero by autists on the internet for whining about a letter he received from the school's faculty
>never receive any actual death threats, never have his life threatened, never actually get censored, never get imprisoned, never even get fired from his job
>simply whining about gender pronouns and being a professor of psychology is enough to be labelled a martyr for free speech by gullible anti-SJWs on the internet who desperately want an authority figure to affirm their whining
>whine about postmodernism and the cultural marxist boogeyman, even though postmodernism is a massive, broad subject never cite any actual literature or works or books by postmodernist authors or the Frankfurts, just say "they're all dumb guys trust me" like a true academic while occasionally namedropping Foucault or Derrida without actually addressing any of their arguments
>give the anti-SJWs you conned an imaginary enemy to blame all their problems on, while posing yourself as a hero when you've done jack shit and ironically whine about virtue signalling in academia while proposing no actual solutions to the postmodernist boogeyman
>fearmonger about a Canadian bill that you didn't even bother reading that was just a slight modification of a previous human rights bill that has already been in effect for decades, only it added "gender identity" to the list of criteria that you can't discriminate someone for and doesn't even affect universities because it only has federal jurisdiction
>virtue signal about how you would go on a hunger strike if you were arrested because of this bill, even though to this day no one has been arrested because of it and there isn't a single shred of evidence in the legislation or court records suggesting that would happen
>claim that a disgruntled twitter employee deleting trump's account is treason, then delete your tweet when everyone calls you out
>make 65k US dollars a month on Patreon from gullible morons who think you're brilliant for making glorified vlogs that spout Jungian purple prose, whine about children's movies being feminist propaganda and make vague, whiny criticisms of postmodernism that isn't backed by any actual evidence
Ah yes we have a true """intellectual""" on our hands.

>>10590695
>>perform the brave, heroic act of refusing to use someone's gender pronouns
In this day and age it's pretty courageous to not affirm the lunacy of these people.

>>10590464
He's never read Derrida

>>10590804
Lol I read this at the exact moment that he started tearing into Derrida on the podcast I'm listening to.

>>10590804
No one really has. Derrida is literally unreadable. People just pretend that his work has any meaning.

>>10590695
your first principle is that this sort of orwellian language twisting isn't actually worth fighting against, which is wrong. he's risked his career and public image at least, which is more than many have done. at least for this, it is worth taking notice of the man.

>>10590811
>No one really has.
>Here's my opinion anyway
Stop embarrassing yourself

>>10590811

i love derrida, but the reason i love him the most is because he's the ultimate bottleneck for 4chan charlatans :)

>>10590852
>>10590695
Agree'd, it wasn't guarantee'd he would get 60k Patreon bucks or wouldn't lose his job.

Also while you may not get arrested for refusing to use someones pronouns(including things like xim/xee/xir) you can be arrested for refusing to pay the fine which is Petersons point.

>>10590695
Stop drinking the fluoride, buddy.

>>10590811
I have read it to categorize myself higher and others lower.
Me
>Genius
Others
>Brainlets

>>10590856
In this case, it's just as valid as anyone else's. I've eyeballed some of the words he wrote, and that's as close as anyone has come to reading them.

>>10590695
>refusing to use someone's gender pronouns

Except that's not what happened. You're only 3 lines in and already lying. Sad.

>>10590878
so how many times has he (or anyone, for that matter) been arrested since the bill passed

>>10590929

Oh right, he said that on that youtube video that only true intellectuals watch. What was it, "JBP ANNIHILATES IDIOT SJW reporter on channel 4 news MUST WATCH"?

He only hypothetically refused to use someone's pronouns, making him an even bigger hypothetical hero.

>>10590811

>Derrida is literally unreadable.

How solidly are you grounded in Heidegger? Which of his works have you read?

>>10590630
What an impressive piece of writing. Thank you.
Honestly no, Jordan wouldn't even finish it, least of all admit his folly. He is not a bad man or a cash-grabbing con, but he is old and very proud.
I'm hoping his work will open the door for some people to some more advanced philosophy.

>>10590695
>>10590959
SEETHING

>>10590950
Nobody because there was no enforcement mechanism in the bill. It didn’t make anything ‘illegal’, it was just the government of Canada declaring they officially Frown Upon people discriminating against trans people. It’s a very British remnant, a royal ‘tut-tut’ against uncouthness. Peterson can go on to be an international celebrity professor, becoming rich and famous and nothing happens.

>>10590630
> He rose to fame when he was captured on video at a protest on the University of Toronto campus, telling transgender students he refused to use gender-neutral pronouns. He has since joined the ranks of Logan Paul and PewDiePie as a YouTube star. He mostly eschews writing, instead posting videos of lectures online for his primarily young, white, and male audience.

fittingly snarky beginning

>>10590992
My own prejudices were a little rocked by having enjoyed that article and then seeing it was written by someone whose other articles included "Interracial Love Songs in American Country Music", "The Safety Pin and the Swastika" and "A Butterfly Reads History" and whose name is Shuja Haider - "a writer and musician based in Brooklyn." I'd ignore it all as not worth my time. I'd dismiss the author as someone I'd certainly not get along with in real life: perhaps I still wouldn't. Nevertheless, there is something of value. Not like most of the shit I sink my time into would give anyone positive illusions about my intellect.

Then again, doing a brief Google search turns up articles on other websites like Jacobin that are a little more interesting, like "Liberal Anti-Politics", even if it still revolves around relatively obvious college left canards.

>>10591074
The Logan Paul and Pewdiepie association is terribly polemic and rather pathetic.

>>10591025

Based JBP keeps on triggering salty cultural marxists. Are you also donating to the cause?

>>10591102
>>10591074
It gets worse.

>This strange conspiracy theory has increasingly gained traction among the far right, famously appearing in 2083: A European Declaration of Independence, the manifesto Anders Brevik distributed before he murdered 77 people in Norway.
and
>Like all the classic conspiracy theories, the antisemitism here is barely concealed. One proponent of the theory, psychologist Kevin MacDonald, has argued that cultural Marxism is an expression of what he calls a “group evolutionary strategy” characteristic of Jewish people. MacDonald acknowledges that not all Jews are radical leftists, but, argues that regardless, these movements are “Jewishly motivated. This repellent association hasn’t stopped the theory from being taken up by mainstream political pundits even today"

It's a thinly veiled attempt at character assassination underpinned by some pretty standard "in-the-know" discourse about left postmodernism.

>>10591119
Go back to /r/ChapoTrapHouse

>>10591173
Peterson's rhetoric about postmodernism is deceptively simple and does appear to have inherited quite a lot of its heft from the 'cultural Marxist' (read: bloody neo-marxist) narrative disseminated by paleocons and dull journalists like Bill Whittle.
For me it's not so much the alleged latent anti-Semitism in Peterson's doctrine than it is the fact it so heavily resembles the rhetoric of paleocon and white nationalist intellectual lightweights.

>>10591211
I don't have the impression that it resembles that at all. Can you show me any examples?

i want /pol/ to leave

>>10591228
Buchanan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7Q4FyYUmq0
Whittle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrt6msZmU7Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4-OXFtUv44

Of course, there's reason to be skeptical of the association. Two people describing a cultural phenomena are going to have literary similarities. At the same time, the simplicity and the indignant force of the accusation seems borrowed.

>>10590464
>there are women only because men benefit by excluding them
This is inherently sexist, denying the existence of women, and it makes women rely entirely on men for their existence. Into the trash it goes.

>>10591255
I see what you mean. Either way, I would hope Peterson's "insights" (there aren't many, but at least he is championing some of their ideas, or his interpretation of them) on Jung, Nietzsche, Eliada etc., that make up his psychological view of religion and his political activism can be disconnected.

>>10590464
>According to Derrida, hierarchical structures emerged only to include (the beneficiaries of that structure) and to exclude (everyone else, who were therefore oppressed).
>Even that claim wasn’t sufficiently radical.
That isn't a radical claim at all, though. It's basically self-evident.

>>10591286
they emergerd ONLY to include and exclude? are you certain about that?

>>10591210

You didn't answer my question. Guess you're one of them. Never respond to any of my posts again, BUCKO.

>>10590464
This is not what Derrida says. This is a popular misreading of Derrida. All big D says about hierarchies is that they're usually arbitrary. A thing is only better or worse than another thing when you establish a framework that says so.

Let's do an example with cars.
>I think the fastest car is the best
>Therefore, I say my ferarri is the best
>You think the most durable car is the best
>Therefore, you say your hummer is the best
>We reach an impasse because we're judging based on different criteria
>Unless we argue over the criteria rather than the cars, we won't get anywhere

"Best" doesn't have meaning on its own. It only has meaning in relation to another, more specific superlative. This is a point that's been made by many philosophers, including Stirner, Nietzche, and many folks in the analytic canon. Derrida just applies it a bit further than usual — specifically, to gender, race, and truth hierarchies. It's not a moral claim, and it has nothing to do with "oppression." It just points out that we're assuming certain criteria make for the best things.

>>10590798
what are they going to do? huff at you and bar you from their facebook farm? if you're scared of one of them, i suggest taking self defense classes and stopping being a girl

>>10591427
you don't understand this highly intellectual way of thinking anon
trannies = liberals = globalists = postmodernists = neomarxists = communists = jews

if we don't stop trannies now they're going to ruin western civilization and white people forever

>>10590695
fact of the matter is, he got on TV and was literally accused by a transgender studies professor of transphobia, abusing students, hate speech, and it was suggested that he should pay for his misgendering 'crime' with jail time. That was exactly what he said could happen by approving that legislation.

>>10590464
Derrida is partially correct but where it sounds like he fucks up is when he starts to lament these things, as if they are wrong. They're not. Men will divisiveness because they want to, and only women and fags have a problem with that.

>>10591471
you know you can't get trannies pregnant right? she's lying to you about having a dick before if she's not pregnant with the antichrist.

>>10591578
>Derrida is partially correct but where it sounds like he fucks up is when he starts to lament these things, as if they are wrong. They're not.
He doesn't say they're wrong, he says they're inevitable. Though he'd probably say we were both right in other ways and something about Greek.

>>10591582
this is an excellent point that i haven't thought of before, thank you for bringing it up. made me think really hard

>>10591594
it's cool bro, if it is the antichrist he's probs okay with you skipping out on child support anyways

>>10591427
>what are they going to do?
In Canada? Literally take you to court, as it's now illegal to not use people's personal made-up pronouns.

>>10591601
You mean in Canada where they're trying to get even Superior court cases heard in under 3 years? They'll be back to their original gender by the time I sue them for costs and damages.

>>10590464
all this post is false

>>10591618
>implying truth
>on 4chan's second fiction board
no wonder these people think they have an argument with those other crazies. would you like to invest in my pyramid scheme?

>>10591604
You can almost HEAR the goalposts shifting...

>>10591604
>haha just don't worry about the fact that the state is on their side it's just a joke lol

>>10591622
I'm hearing money in damages and I say bring it on. Do you think the SJW tranny is going to get a better lawyer from the government? Kek, which province do you live in?

>>10591630
It's blatantly obvious you've never dealt with the justice system in any way, shape or form, so just stop littering the thread with your delusions. You're like a kid trying out Kung Fu moves in front of the TV while watching Bruce Lee explaining how you would totally beat anyone's ass in a fight.

>>10591628
>the State is on their side
It's not though. That law protects my right to call everyone he, she, or whatever the fuck I want, and they would lose in front of any judge, most of which are conservative around here. If anyone bothered to try to sue me, it probably wouldn't even make it to court by the time they'd need to show up in drag, and most judges would kick it and charge them with at least their costs, which means no money for tittieskittles for months and I win the countersuit that says they've stopped taking their medication for six months after the trial.

You're so scared of going to court when the law and most judges would award you money for putting up with their bullshit, and probably award it by how many years you had to wait around for the court. It's a better money maker than bitcoin and that's why not a one of them will sue.

>>10591636
Which province are you in that your judges are cucked? Are you a drunken crackhead native that you've ever lost an argument with a policeman?

>>10590630
>Viewpoint Magazine aims to understand the struggles that define our conjuncture, critically reconstruct radical history, and reinvent Marxism for our time. Viewpoint is therefore neither a socialist news source nor an academic journal. It is a militant research collective.

Nobody whose literary or philosophical tradition stretches back to John Locke (and by extension, Marx) is worth reading.

Discuss.

>>10591636
Children calling other children children
>/lit/: the post

>>10591297
No, but their very core rely on integrating / excluding people from the common law, and the clearest act of that is the separation of certain classes of non/sub-citizens thorough the history of law and the state.
I thought we had been through this already

Doesn't Peterson prove this wrong with his whole lobster meme?

>>10591618
who's that guy?

>>10591641
>It's not though. That law protects my right to call everyone he, she, or whatever the fuck I want
lol, except they literally made canadian lawyers sign a paper where they agree to be progressive to be able to exercise their job

>>10591676

To say that hierarchical structures rely on exclusion seems incorrect.
If anything I'd say they have the intent of eliminating exclusion whenever possible as its not conducive to their function.
Exclusion will always exist in practice but really that's regardless of the presence of hierarchy.

>>10591641
I'm not saying there aren't plenty of sensible judges, but there are plenty of radical leftists judges too. And it's only going to get worse the longer these people have a strangle hold on government. They're not losing political power, they're gaining it and there's no real organized opposition to them.

>>10590798
>In this day and age it's pretty courageous to not affirm the lunacy of these people.
no it's fucking not, half of the internet is now dedicated to this hobby

>>10591717
Organic / spontaneous or temporary hierarchical structures might not, but that is definitely the case with law and the state.

>>10591759
>da interweb is reel life

>>10590630
that is a poorly written,idiotic text

>>10591716
>lol, except they literally made canadian lawyers sign a paper where they agree to be progressive to be able to exercise their job
Yeah and that would be the kind of thinking that lets me say it's my religious belief that's a goddamn tranny.
>>10591719
The radical leftists don't tend to swing that way though. They do retarded shit sure, but normally it's retarded shit like That guy innawoods claiming to be Jesus/Allah and hacking his wives to death and disfigurement is just getting back to nature and being free. Conservative judges do retarded shit too like that guy who started slutwalk, but normally their principle isn't as harmful and generally rewards the person who says This is fucking nonsense and a waste of money.

>>10591025
We are upset that he reflects our very essence back at us through a dark mirror. When we see Peterson taling about a book he's clearly only pretended to have read with due consideration. When he keeps cycling through the same 5 thinkers, indicating he hasn't familiarized himself with a diverse range of philosophical perspectives. When he sticks his neck out and continuously misuses complex and nuanced terms like "postmodernism" hoping that it will stick and he'll continue to have a seat at the table. When he does these things the average /lit/izen, being on average neurotic and overly self-aware, is left to think "my god, that's me!" and this is very unsettling for us when we are trying to play at being bonafide intellectuals on this Laotian escort service.

>>10590630
Dreadfully written article, how could anyone take this seriously with such loaded language?

>>10591885
I always imagined we sounded more like Miss Piggy than Kermit. What does this mean, Herr Doctor?

>>10591907
>Dreadfully written article, how could anyone take this seriously with such loaded language?
>on 4chan
rebbit's calling out for you to come home, doublenigger

>>10591909
we're takng Peterson's retractable big one

>>10591935
>implying Kermit is on top in that relationship
I see you're getting your children's programmes' analysis from that pseudoJungian hack.

>>10591915
>article full of character assassination
>hyperbole and loaded language
>obviously pushing an agenda
Yes I should really trust what this article is telling me. Definitely pursuing the truth.

>>10591988
>but they said MEAN THINGS in a critical article
>ZOMG THEY MIGHT EVEN OVER STATE THINGS FOR EFFECT
>I like my agendas to be subtly massaged into my brain Manchurian Candidate style
>also in a pleasant tone to read like sparkle pens :33
I wouldn't trust you with yourself to be honest, petal.

>>10592006
You convinced me 2+2=5

>>10592006
did you know all your french lit heroes, derrida, foucault, althusser, sartre, deleuze, guatarri and so forth signed a petition against laws of consent in 1977? that adulthood is just a social construct anyways? that they are effectively pedo-enablers? this is 100x worse than anything Peterson has ever done.

>>10592027
*age of consent

>>10592027
Yes, Did you know /lit/s favourite books are about abducting loli and fart and shit porn? And you're wrong about that list, and left off Beauvoir, in favour of Sartre who is widely considered to have butchered Heidegger. You're also assuming they're the ones who wrote the loli porn we like, when that was written by a nobleman from Russia who was ousted by the Communists and argued to bomb them back to the primordial slime they are to the New Yorker. You're left here.

>>10591988
what's exactly wrong with the article? It doesn't even mention Peterson that much, it just mentions his insane jump to conclusions and ridiculous oversimplification of Derrida, Foucault etc

>>10591759
When you consider the power disparity between those who do this and those who oppose then, it is very courageous.

>>10592042
Ulysses is about Jews getting cucked and suffering from premature ejaculation. You're thinking of Joyce's love letters, not his novels.

>>10592060
What about Chamber Music?

also reminder that Peterson's only experience with postmodernism is some meme book by Stephen Hicks which 1) almost no one heard of and 2) was widely discredited by everyone who did read it. it's a joke

>>10592049 see
>>10591074
>>10591173
It's possible to write a composed, neutrally worded criticism but the author seems more interested in writing an article that dogwhistles to far left readers and shows an excess of ridiculous hyperbole

>>10592042
>Butchered Heidegger
>Placed in top three of "worst philosophers" poll

doubtful

>>10592081
have you never read a critique before? you're just getting triggered that the author threw some jabs at Peterson in 3 sentences out of a 4750 words article. Grow up.

>>10592119
>grow up.
But anon.. Do you know where we are?

>>10592108
>he's annoyed people speak Greek
>he's very annoyed people can tell who doesn't speak Greek well
Sorry about your parents spending their money on themselves instead of your education.

>>10592148
>muh fee-fees should be protected on 4chan and no mean things
are you having a stroke or just seven layers of [s4s] irony?

>>10591859
>radical leftists aren't prone to authoritarianism

>>10592175
Canada, bud.

>>10592164

>>10592175
Kek I just got banned from leftypol for calling North Korea a shit hole

>>10590630
>Peterson, a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto, has entered into an unholy alliance with all the powers of the alt-right......

>He has since joined the ranks of Logan Paul and PewDiePie as a YouTube star.

>He mostly eschews writing, instead posting videos of lectures online for his primarily young, white, and male audience.

>>10592445
>>10590630
Stunningly good article.
Is this the best you marxist fags can come with?

>>10592445
>>10592495

So this is the power of Petersonfag critique..

>>10592507
You have recently joined the feminist crowd in criticizing Peterson

>>10592445
>>10592495
>ignore 95% of the article and its overarching (well documented) critique

is this the best you buckos can come up with?

>>10592513

The power. the power.. such ARGUMENTS.. holy

>>10592519
Why do you enter the alliance with racidal non-binary people in their crusade against peterson?

>>10592527
Because I'm a jew and I hate wh*Te people

>>10592527

Why do your worship this meme of con-man?

>>10592519
why would i go on reading after this tho? The writer pretty much shows me in the first paragraph at what level of discourse and bias he likes to drag me down to.

>>10592545

>why would I try to challenge my own pre-conceived beliefs when the first line gave me an excuse for me to keep up my profound intellectual laziness and cowardice?

Gee, I dunno. Hey did you see that youtube video "Jordan Peterson DESTROYS Gender Denying Idealogue"? It's sort of long, running at 9 minutes, but you can pause it to browse pornography or other tabs or whatever you need to recharge your attention span.

>>10592524
arguments are for fuckin' dweebs lol

>loool why wont young white men just sink into a mire of nihilism, video games and self-flagellation and finally admit that western civilization is a fraudulent pyramid scheme created to oppress minorities and women
>lol is jbp their surrogate daddy or something? hehe awww that's sooo saddd :'))
>lool what even IS pomo??? he can't even name the primary texts xDD
>btw there is no biological basis for intelligence or human behavior, everyone is equal and if white men have done well it's because of racism and oppression. just an fyi
>why the fuck wont jordan peterson just be a good ally and use the correct pronouns, isn't he aware of the fact that words are violence? lol does he actually think trannies will cause the destruction of western civilization?? hehe awwwwkward

>>10592553
Maybe write your article a bit better and try not to associate him with the Alt Right or compare him to Logan Paul.
I might read more if you were less biased, sorry!

>>10592545
so you exclusively read things written 100% in a neutral academic tone? you're lying and you know it.

>>10592554

I know man. Hey, did you get the "LIBERAL TEARS" mug from the youtube video description of the video called "Jordan Peterson DESTROYS SJW & Feminists"? It's a classic for Peterson scholars and true intellectuals such as us.

>>10592557
who are you quoting?

>>10592562
i read things that dont try to tell me how to feel in the most dishonest way possible before they even present their first argument. Trying to associate jordan peterson with pewdiepie and the most hated youtuber in recent memory? i mean come on, this is lower than garbage. how am i even supposed to trust anything this person says afterwards. its just so dumb.

>>10591211
we are probably living under a transitional period: neoliberalism reigns, but no one knows for how much longer. The radical social liberalism you see out there is a product of this same hypercapitalism, combined with the panopticon effects of social media. We have achieved liberation from gender, sexual repression, religion, traditional constraints, but we have nothing left but the void of the market, no real sense of the past or of the future, no autonomy. Technological change leads to a loss of identity. neoliberal governance has grown so 'rational' in its own twisted way it has begun to undermine its own foundations. Muh sjws and managerial deconstructionists are just rational actors pursuing their own self interest, a product of the postfordist economy rather than the spawn of old Adorno and Horkenhemier. This is the utopia of instrumental reason the frankfurt school warned us about. The postmodernists merely described the society we live in, Foucault's world, a world of naked power relationships serving rationalised production. Everything is transcendentally meaningless and paradoxical, the US army prides itself on the gender diversity of its drone operators, while Donald Trump was elected president on a 'build a massive wall' platform, the white nationalists are not even white, Peterson joins the chorus of neocon and neolib shills calling for iran intervention, denouncing Russian trickery, people are talking about the bomb again.

https://teddykw2.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/jean-baudrillard-forget-foucault.pdf

That's were Peterson comes in to sell a reconstructed christian subjectivity to an eager middle class audience. That's Peterson's greatest flaw, imo, there is no economic renaissance in the horizon and the acidic forces of economic liberalism remain as strong as they ever were. Cleaning your room is of little use when you are caught in a dead end job, facing diminishing prospects and a dismal economy. Read Christopher Lasch for a serious overview of postmodern selfhood.

http://thezeitgeistmovement.se/files/Lasch_Christopher_The_Culture_of_Narcissism.pdf

>>10592575
you
btw I love the fact that he's calling it postmodern neo-marxism. it really gets the left going. it's like when people decry being called nazis by saying "uh actually, I'm not really a card-carrying member of die nationalsozialistische deutsche arbeiterpartei, words have meaning you know..."

>>10590798
>it's pretty courageous

You seriously can't make this shit up.

>>10592633
I wish it were postmodern neo-marxism. About as close as it gets is that they have read Twilight and 50 Shades, which is arguably like reading Beauvoir, but only her fiction.

Do you really want to believe that the people who read Twilight, dye their hair blue, and shout about muh patriarchy managed to read and understand core postmodernists like Heidegger, when you can't though? I really don't believe any of those fat annoying Americans could get through a lecture on Plato from him, and scholars have difficulty with him to the point that they have to relearn High German after reading. But you think subprime shrieking drama queens read that? Or Derrida? Why? They would have to be able to read at a complex level to get through a sentence and most of the postmodernists say things which they would deeply disagree with and cry more about if they knew what postmodernism is.

I think the chances of your average SJW being able to name a postmodernist is about as good as the chances of Peterson having read a page of any of them with any comprehension. Just because Peterson's dumb doesn't mean that SJWs understand Being and Time. They're both idiots on the topic.

Petersonfags ruin everything. We used postmodernism to bully girls off the internet for not loving postmodernism, and then Petersonfags lie like girls about how the girls really read Baudrillard. Well, fuck you, you Onti white knighters, she never fucking read Baudrillard, she had terrible foot:face screen time ratios, and her eyebrows were over plucked.

>>10592684
I have no delusions of catching some 160+ iq criminally insane professional anal fister playing foul with his word games. that's jordan's prerogative. it's some esoteric shit for nerds. as I see it, they're just collateral damage at this point. if I have to choose between a measured analysis of derrida and bordan beter forming his own death squads and soundly executing every tranny with his rowdy room cleaning I'm settling for the latter.

obviously nothing of this will fix the mounting inequality, growing resentment, politicization and tribalization. we civil war now

>>10592867
>we civil war now
>tfw the helter gets skelter

>>10592867
heh... nothin personnel kid

>>10592879
>tfw the black panther movie becomes an international box office smash hit and repairs race relations for time immemorial, urging in a new era of prosperity and peace for all people

>>10592867
It's not Jordan's prerogative though. His choice was to blame some other group he has no understand of because if he's just battling trannies and SJWs, then he sounds like a tit who has nothing better to do. He pretends they could possibly read things above his level of comprehension because he doesn't want to admit the people he has chosen to stand up to in life is the mental equivalent of an inbred NASCAR fan from deep in West Virginia's meth forests only with a leftist swing, if you can call politics left or right at that level of retardation. He's fighting retards as "an intellectual battle" and that's like billing a hillbilly kicking a cat in a bag as "being a great techincal fighter".

>>10592914
>no understand of
no understanding* of

>>10592119
Not him, and I oppose Peterson's take on many things, but here I agree that the snarky tone of parts of that article is retarded. It doesn't irk me, but I consider it a sign of an emotions taking the precedence in a situation where dismantling Peterson is quite easy, so easy in fact that a more measured response could approach the level of BTFO. But nope, it's better to commit to what is a writing equivalent of >screeching intensifies under trig's influence and be the hero of twitter's >screeching intensifies crowd.

>>10592914
he's fighting a culture war, bluntly speaking. as long as he's colonizing the minds of impressionable teens he's winning. I'd rather deal with room cleaners instead of the pathologic people higher education is producing right now. sometimes you have to go "omg heidegger is totes bad" if you want to avoid some nazism

>>10592997
>he's fighting a culture war,
He's not though. He's creating a culture war, carving out a niche which needs and legitimizes the people he says he hates. He's not saying Heidegger's bad, he doesn't know enough about postmodernism to argue for or against Heidegger. He does know that only a legitimate, smart, valid enemy could read Derrida, so he pretends that SJWs do, when they don't, and the reason why he does that is because he doesn't want to portray them as the idiots they are. He's not calling SJWs idiots when he calls them postmodernists: he's desperately trying to pretend he's in a fight with someone legit who can understand dense Marxist prose, rather than fighting people who's main demographic marker is being fat, mentally ill, bad with money, and unemployable. Because if he said that, his fans might notice he's getting one set of those people to pay for his house by saying it's really the other fatties who are using sneaky smarts to make the non-SJW's victims and fat and unemployable. He's part of the same problem that makes SJWs.

Why, out of all SJW lies, is he going along with "they have the intelligence to read some of the most technical, dense, referential authors of the 20th Century, most of whom mix French, English, German, and Greek freely, and without translation". He'll call them liars when they use a pronoun wrong, but he's not willing to say "that dumbass wouldn't make it through Derrida" about the same person? Really?

I'm meant to expect the person who thinks "xirs" is a perfectly cromulent word because the internet told them, can sit through a lecture on what specific meaning a word in Greek has in the middle ages context of Scholasticism and how that is at odds with its original sense and curtails empirical realities? I think what Peterson really wants me to believe is that he's not wasting his time fighting idiots who don't read Derrida, in order to make easy cash off other idiots who also don't read Derrida. That would make more sense than believing any of his battles are against postmodernists.

>>10593043
>who's
*whose
Sorry for the run-ons too, it's getting late here.

>>10593043
Anyone can read these texts with the proper training, and the course that create these people are the ones where tha's happening. Even those who don't engage with the ideas directly are still receive them in transmission from their leaders.

>>10590504

>>10590630
Truly, an eye opening read. Thanks for posting this anon

>>10593219
>Anyone can read these texts with the proper training, and the course that create these people are the ones where tha's happening. Even those who don't engage with the ideas directly are still receive them in transmission from their leaders.
>SJWs speak Greek and Heideggerean German
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I believe that as much as I believe you understand Heidegger, which is not at all. Not by a long shot. Not if your life depended on understanding Thrownness or Unforgetting and defining either in relation to Being. Why do you need them to have taken Ancient Greek to such a level of proficiency that they could live in NYC off two hours tutoring per week? How would the market not be glutted? How come none of them understand basic rhetoric if they even read the Greeks in translation?

I think it's much more likely you're pretending they could read Heidegger, when again, a lot of scholars drop the fuck out if they're not spending their career and two postdocs on it. Or do you think the blue haired meanies are actually smarter than those scholars and they're breezing through that shit like nobody else had before?

>>10593250
just my 2 cents, but even in europe you can factually get thru a philosophy major without ever reading heidegger, hegel etc. you can create your course of study with just plain bullshit like bioethics and just read general summary about the philosophy of philosophers. and if one can become a phil doc without even reading heidi in europe, it’s consequential that people in the us who never read shit from the greeks can be considered intellectually worth.

>>10593250
you'll never win with the petercucks, he has them convinced that there's this academic potsmodern cabal sect trying to destroy western civilizationTM and they'll never drop that idea, now matter how much you show them how ridiculous that idea is.

>>10590798
Yeah maybe if you're some impotent b-list celebrity that can't stem the tide of liberal fury at your refusal to use their pronouns. But you're some nobody on 4chan and no one will even bat an eye if you refuse to address that amorphous thing behind the counter at your local Starbucks as xir.

>>10593273
>just my 2 cents, but even in europe you can factually get thru a philosophy major without ever reading heidegger, hegel etc. you can create your course of study with just plain bullshit like bioethics and just read general summary about the philosophy of philosophers. and if one can become a phil doc without even reading heidi in europe, it’s consequential that people in the us who never read shit from the greeks can be considered intellectually worth.
Yeah, but your focus wouldn't be postmodernism, and if you tried a degree in postmodernism without Heidegger or Hegel, you wouldn't even get to a paper you have to defend, you'd be out on your ear. If you want to do your focus on Mohist Chinese philosophy, yeah, you don't need the postmodernist backing. But it's a thread specifically about postmodernist focus.
>>10593276
What I find strange is that their education system is shit, organised by a cabal, and they want to pretend that it's passing through millions of SJWs and turning them into something smart enough to have read postmodernism. You might as well say the cabal is nuclear fusion engineers; they would need the same sudden jump of intelligence to deserve that title. But since they don't want to be fighting dumb people, they're pretending SJWs are smarter than most serious philosophy students on earth. They're not. The problem with the cabal is that they're dumb, not that they're educated. If they were actually Heideggerean scholars they wouldn't be bothering any one because they would be innawoods drawing well water, and if they Derrida scholars, not a one of them would have twitter, instagram or a phone for us to hear about them.

Why, when your point is they're dumb and don't know enough about Western Civ to be tearing it down, would you say that they're amongst the most educated on the history of Western Canon? IF they were that smart they could read those books, they wouldn't be doing the dumb pointless shit they're doing.

>>10593276
It;s not a conspiracy. The existence of post-colonial studies alone demonstrates the destruction of what any decent person considers "western civilization" to be is their stated agenda. That tools like deconstruction are used in these studies makes Derrida an accomplice at very least.

>>10593328
>What I find strange is that their education system is shit, organised by a cabal, and they want to pretend that it's passing through millions of SJWs and turning them into something smart enough to have read postmodernism. You might as well say the cabal is nuclear fusion engineers; they would need the same sudden jump of intelligence to deserve that title. But since they don't want to be fighting dumb people, they're pretending SJWs are smarter than most serious philosophy students on earth. They're not. The problem with the cabal is that they're dumb, not that they're educated. If they were actually Heideggerean scholars they wouldn't be bothering any one because they would be innawoods drawing well water, and if they Derrida scholars, not a one of them would have twitter, instagram or a phone for us to hear about them.
It's not though. For it to be deconstruction, facts would have to lay side by side in it. They specifically want to eliminate some facts, in favour of others. That's not deconstruction. Deconstruction involves saying "KKK members and SJWs believe that white, protestants have ruled the world since before there were white protestants", not "White protestant dead men are raping me/the basis of Western Civilization". The basis of Western Civ is Greeks stealing shit off Egyptians who stole shit off everyone before them, and the Greeks, Irish, and Arabs losing the sources well enough the Egyptians can't claim them back.

>>10593350
Sorry, I had that other anon's post highlighted when I quoted yours. >>10593328

>>10590464

funny that all of peterson's fans got into a rage because of that channel 4 lady supposedly misrepresenting him when she said "so you're saying" over and over again, even though everything peterson writes on philosophy is one big misrepresentation from a secondary source written by an unironic ayn rand fan

>>10593328
how could he have predicted that? he was just a narcissist intellectual of his time going about being edgy. i didn’t take literally his own ideas in day to day life. this ontological obsession with words and language is strictly embedded in the very present internet era. pomo phil weren’t actually thinking that words create reality itself, this fiat-logocentrism has only existed in the last 5/6 years.

>>10593373
*he didn’t

>>10593328
>The existence of post-colonial studies alone demonstrates the destruction of what any decent person considers "western civilization" to be is their stated agenda

dumb

>>10593328
i'm not of postcolonianism generally and there's a decent argument from the left to be made against it (see zizek) but if you really think that some blue haired academic idiots are a threat to western civilization you a) don't seem to have a lot of respect for western civilization and b) need to grow some balls and go outside a bit more. (after cleaning your room, I suppose?)

>>10593328
nothing is being destroyed by sjw you paranoid

>>10593363
Yeah, but they won't know that because their source of knowledge about western philosophy is... Jordan Peterson.

>>10593386
^this
i’ve come to think that people obsessed against SJW are more solipsistic than them

>>10593393
sjw and anti-sjws are two sides of the same bored, under stimulated, existentially terrified pseud coin. without each other as an enemy their lives would be meaningless

>>10590464
Reminder that Derrida came up with his entire worldview b/c he was born without the ability to think in images. He literally could only think in words and projected his disability onto the rest of humanity. Obviously he wouldn't be able to into the concept of platonic forms, everything was just words to him, like it is for most jews.

>>10593393
They're not the problem. The problem is the more subtle changes taking place slowly in normies since the enlightenment. SJW's are the heat waves, slow death of God is global warming

>>10593408
>Reminder that Derrida came up with his entire worldview b/c he was born without the ability to think in images. He literally could only think in words and projected his disability onto the rest of humanity. Obviously he wouldn't be able to into the concept of platonic forms, everything was just words to him, like it is for most jews.
Most of his work is about how images are more uncontrolled and powerful and deconstruct into more fragmentary impressions than words. You've not only not read him, you've never read or seen any of the reasons he gave for the decades of not wanting to be filmed.

Hint: he avoided being filmed until after writing a large body of work because he didn't want to start a cult of personality. Something Peterson seems okay with. Like Mao.

>>10593408
like it is for most people overly urbanized who are defined by their association with other people and status

>>10593414
certainly most normies are accommodating some sjw buzz concepts by being bullied into that by liberal media, but normies shift quickly and move within very narrow intervals of eccentricity

>>10590966
Heidegger is definitely a different level of unreadable than Derrida. Derrida is just boring and irrelevant.

>>10593466
Derrida draws heavily on Heidegger and Hegel. He might be easier to read, but it's a bit like Thus Spake Zarathustra being easy and fun to read: it doesn't mean shit that you got through it at 14, there's no way you understood its references to other philosophies.

>>10593321
>and if they Derrida scholars, not a one of them would have twitter, instagram or a phone for us to hear about them

Can you elaborate on this? What does Derrida say that would imply an avoidance of social media?

>>10593527
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nmu3uwqzbI

>>10593540
I see. Thank you for this. I've only read his paper "Structure, Sign, and Play" and a few prerequisite philosophers so this was helpful

>>10593382
>create an entire field of study dedicated to destroying the west and empowering her enemies.
>ensure it's disseminated to the general populace through the media.
I get the appeal. Things Fall Apart was a great literary achievement. Doesn't change the fact the associated movement is highly detrimental to us westerners.
>>10593386
>but if you really think that some blue haired academic idiots are a threat to western civilization
If you don't think these highly funded institutions have any serious impact on our society, you're delusional. We live in a society that is obsessed education and intelligence to the extent that it's used to justify the supposed meritocracy we've attained (the famed American anti-intellectualism is little more than a defense mechanism used by those who ave been burned by this system, and I can't exactly blame them for it), and these use this cultural sentiment in order to cement the existing class structure by providing the a socially acceptable justification for it. But I suppose it's not all bleak: Bush Jr. and Trump make it hard to believe this system's claims.
>a) don't seem to have a lot of respect for western civilization
Sometimes the greatest things are the most fragile.
>b) need to grow some balls and go outside a bit more. (after cleaning your room, I suppose?)
I go out more often than is good for me.

>>10593495
Heidegger disagreed on both accounts. He was a fan of Derrida and claimed he was the thinker who understood his own work the most. He even invited Derrida for holidays.

>>10593675
How is that Heidegger disagreeing with any point I made, let alone two?

>>10592633
"uh actually, I'm not really a card-carrying member of die nationalsozialistische deutsche arbeiterpartei, words have meaning you know..."

loled

It is obvious that we are having a raid from the cult of Peterson, how much does he paids you?

>>10593796
no, the genius part is that THEY pay HIM

>>10593683
lol

>>10593495
Derrida is barely even talked about, let alone read in philosophy departments. No one thinks he's worthwhile diving into

>>10593807
>Peterson is the Russian Reversal of shilling
Parts of me from the eighties groaned, but it is genius.

>>10593818
>Yale and l'Ecole Normale Supérieure are not still milking their investment
I'm sure they decided to give up on making money off their investment and have exactly no youtube videos. That was probably just an 80s blip.

>>10593527
>>10593551
This explains him not wanting a photo of him, especially with the writing, and why he started making videos and photos available
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RjLOxrloJ0

>>10592561
>peterson trashtalks anyone he disagrees with: no problem
>article makes the connection between jbp and other youtubers: "why is the article so biased???"

>>10591255
in addition, i've noticed peterson seemingly tacitly acknowledging the 'cultural marxism' meme as legitimate several times. people will ask questions about what to do when the cultural marxists are pursuing some nefarious end and peterson will reply, "well if the cultural marxists are doing X then here's what you should do, kiddo..."

honestly i think part of it is he's just too credulous. like when he talks about stuff that's "really out there, man" and uses that warning to embrace anthropological conjecture (ex: some Mckenna tier book about mushrooms and lsd, title i cant recall atm).

>>10591618
is that ontologicool?

>>10593418
BTFO

>>10593540
pretty lady

>>10594783
Seems to me 'cultural Marxists' actually makes more sense as a description of what he's against than 'postmodernists'. It's still a dumb term though, and obviously has /pol/tastic associations.

>>10594848
maybe, at least one student of horkheimer has defended its use along the same lines (ok it was paul gottfried lol). "they were marxists [of a sort] writing about culture." but really its terrible because any explanation of what it actually is (without even going to /pol/ definitions) boils down to "instead of proles vs bourgeoisie, minorities vs whites" and that's not what the frankfurters were up to. when you accept the term and repeat it back uncritically to an audience like peterson does, you're just legitimizing the prevailing inaccuracy embedded in it.

i almost expect a peterson video on the frankfurt school soon: they were bloody smart, viciously smart, they were no goddamn joke! (praise their intellect to make it seem like he has mastery of the material) but they just didn't take religion/jung/jesus seriously enough! (establish your area of expertise as their critical weakness so everything you say later on is automatically devastatingly incisive).

>>10593387
we already live in the sjw dystopia. soon, you will be watching star wars XIV on theaters, which has nothing to do with starwars but is in fact a video of ugly blue haired fat positive queers(tm) violently raping an innocent white child. the liberal audience cries YAS QUEEN SLAY, moved by such display of diversity and progress. That's precisely the future I don't want. leftist utopia is an unending pepsi comercial, only with more 'politically correct' child rape

>>10593399
except, sjw is a right wing snarlworld for 'decent empathetic human being'. 'anti sjws' and Petersonites are white dudes who feel threathened because marginalised folks are finally getting treated with the bare minimum of human decency

>>10596215
your satire is ineffective. it's too obvious a caricature of conservative paranoia. it's all very well making these tongue in cheek shitposts trying to make straight white men with a persecution complex look stupid (it's not hard, after all) but really this is even stupider.

>>10596215

>>10596250
>implying the paranoia isn't justified

seriously, I used to be a liberal, I used to check my white privilege I used to read NYT, Vox and Huffpo. But Peterson helped me realise life isn't worth living when you have to be on your knees all the time. I can now affirm without shame my HATE for the cultural marxists in the politically correct LGBTSJWTFBBQ community. Seriously, these ''people'' are enemies, slave morality cultists with which no common ground is possible at all. We all know were are they are headed and their politically correct agenda is backed by all major corporation. One could go as far as saying 'queer theory' has replaced christianity as the official religion of the west, Christ has been replaced by a dildo wielding bluehaired victim blob. but the message is fundamentally the same, keeping the strong down through slave morality, systematically raping children like the church did.

>>10596223
>marginalised folks are finally getting treated with the bare minimum of human decency
no amount of institutional meddling and denial of biology will 'uplift' these people, in the end we'll be left with nothing but less-than-effective arabic-african vassal states with the same pointless issues that continue to plague these people. white privilege and notions of institutional bias wont change this simple fact. enjoy your chinese century
the most moral thing would be to advocate for separation and with the use of stable/productive/safe nations we can help other nations with indirect measures and new technology.

>>10596280
>We all know were are they are headed
and where is that? pro tip: it's not communism

>>10596291
dysfunctional third-world states with ethnic conflicts and corruption under the watchful eyes of a dominant minority

>>10596291
leftoids don't really care about the working class or communism anymore, it's all about corporate sponsored child trannies and PC mind control, the ultimate goal of the politically correct leftist is a world in which everyone is the same, in which humans have been reduced to mere hedonist consumer units with no control over their lives, genderless, raceless and cultureless consumers existing in a state of perfect equality.

>>10596307
>dysfunctional third-world states with ethnic conflicts
no one wants this though

>>10596309
now you're just getting into conspiracies. it's true that liberalism only cares about profit but "corporate sponsored child trannies and PC mind control" is ridiculous

>>10596352
it's what you're getting bucko
>hurrdurr IQ isn't real, it's just a measurement of IQ
>hurrdurr race isn't real, who can really tell who's white, are the irish white?
>what do you mean, I'm swamped with unintelligent people with an extreme tribal mindset and suddenly every political effort becomes pointless because there's corruption and incompetence at every instance of society?
>what do you mean, didn't my courses in white privilege and the horrors of colonization change the very fabric of reality?

>>10596280
>seriously, I used to be a liberal, I used to check my white privilege I used to read NYT, Vox and Huffpo
you used to be an idiot, and you still are.

>>10596223
Christ, you still post here ,nad you still use the same buzzphrases. Your conception of empathy doesn't really mean anything, and everyone who opposes you isn't some sort of sociopath because they haven't been instructed to feel the same way you do.

In all honesty, you might really be the dumbest, most ideologically consumed person on this board, and you should really consider leaving.

>>10596280
>seriously, I used to be a liberal, I used to check my white privilege I used to read NYT, Vox and Huffpo. But Peterson helped me realise life isn't worth living when you have to be on your knees all the time.

>he thinks he unplebbed himself with youtube videos

>>10596352
>now you're just getting into conspiracies. it's true that liberalism only cares about profit but "corporate sponsored child trannies and PC mind control" is ridiculous
He phrased it in the most ridiculous way possible, but making every aspect of life customizable like these people want is a marketer's wet dream.

>>10596389
>hurrdurr IQ isn't real, it's just a measurement of IQ
averages are useless, there are intelligent black people that are more successful than some white trailer trash

>hurrdurr race isn't real, who can really tell who's white, are the irish white?
what's even the point of race, other than discrimination? people are more separated by class than by nationality and race anyway

>what do you mean, I'm swamped with unintelligent people with an extreme tribal mindset
are you really SWAMPED with them? i don't like illegal migrants either but they're under control where i live

>and suddenly every political effort becomes pointless because there's corruption and incompetence at every instance of society?
it was always like that

>what do you mean, didn't my courses in white privilege and the horrors of colonization change the very fabric of reality?
a lot of people have suffered from USA playing world police and exploiting other nations and the old "might makes right" mindset. It is time to change indeed

>>10596402
don't laugh, he's super serial.

>>10590464
Let's look at one example from Peterson himself: supposedly Derrida calls Western civilization phallogocentric, and by this he means that "what you see in Western culture is the consequence of the male-dominated oppressive self-serving society."
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/06/05/jordan_peterson_why_you_have_to_fight_postmodernism.html

Well, does Derrida call Western civilization phallogocentric? No. This term first (I think) appears in the essay 'Tympan' from Margins of Philosophy. The topic of Tympan is the tendency for philosophical systems (like that of Hegel, or Heidegger) to consider philosophy as dominant over all other forms of inquiry. There's a general science of thought or being or whatever that has to be understood before the natural sciences, history, etc. can be "really justified". Derrida's complaining about this and pointing out the fact that it's connected with a sexist bias towards equating the masculine with the reasonable or the primary.

Does this sound like a critique of Western civilization to you? It seems to me that Derrida's interest here is significantly more focused. Moreover, Western civilization does not do much to devalue the work of scientists or historians in favor of that of philosophers. So Peterson's interpretation of this term seems very strange to me and doesn't seem to have any connection at all to the context in which it appears. How could Peterson have made a blunder of this magnitude? It's hard to imagine this being a simple misunderstanding since the word civilization doesn't appear in the essay called Tympan a single time. So it has to be either malice or profound ignorance.

>>10596453
>So it has to be either malice or profound ignorance
Can't say he's deserving of anything else. Anyone who chooses to write in a dense style, deserves to have it used against them in the most malicious ways possible.

>>10596415
>averages are useless
it's not for intents and purposes of a political project that's supposed to be beneficial to the people inside the nation and people around the world. as I said, enjoy your chinese century

>what's even the point of race, other than discrimination?
it points to real population differentiations and real effects on cognitive abilities. it's a useful tool for dealing with stratifications along race without people becoming resentful
also, what do you think white privilege is? it's just a euphemism for white people. your enemies are acutely aware of what they're fighting against, you're not going to convince other groups to be less tribal by being a self-flagellating lefty

>are you really SWAMPED with them?
uh I'm from sweden and I can see where we're going. immigration has a huge effect on crime rates, health care, housing and education
I'm sure it's possible to have a relatively peaceful multicultural project under the benign eye of whitey but it's simply a matter of demographics. it's not sustainable

>it was always like that
okay so why do you even care, let it all burn. western civ is evil, now it's burning (and that's a good thing)

>a lot of people have suffered from USA playing world police and exploiting other nations and the old "might makes right" mindset. It is time to change indeed
I'm sure restating historical events over and over again as a kind of punitive tool will suddenly work out for you in the end.

>>10596489
>letting yourself be anima-possessed so you can cling on to your child-like deification of your great father figure instead of having to separate petersons reasonable views from his pseudery
you'll never become an individual at this rate, bucko.

>>10596489
How do you feel those who write in a purposefully deceptive style ought be treated?

>>10596499
>it's not for intents and purposes of a political project that's supposed to be beneficial to the people inside the nation and people around the world. as I said, enjoy your chinese century
that doesn't answer anything. some minorities are more successful than some whites and that's a fact. the average IQ is only used for discrimination and nothing else

>it points to real population differentiations and real effects on cognitive abilities.
wait what does that have to do with race? Now you're mixing up race and IQ which vary on circumstances and individual basis.

>uh I'm from sweden and I can see where we're going. immigration has a huge effect on crime rates, health care, housing and education
well i don't trust any stats from /pol/ so i don't know about this. i know that for most countries it's not that bad

>okay so why do you even care, let it all burn. western civ is evil, now it's burning (and that's a good thing)
it's not burning lol, you're under effect of right wing populism

>I'm sure restating historical events over and over again as a kind of punitive tool will suddenly work out for you in the end.
well my country has suffered from "western interests" so yeah i'm glad that americans are having a privilege check. again, this doesn't apply to you in sweden, more right wing populism

>>10590464
On postmodernism, apparently Peterson is getting his account of it from Hicks' Explaining Postmodernism. For a sentiment like those already expressed here, but in the literature, here's Lorkovic's assessment of Hicks' thesis in Philosophy in Review 25(4):


"Stephen R.C. Hicks' Explaining Postmodernism is a polemic in primer's clothing. What opens innocently enough as an intellectual history of postmodernism and its rise to academic respectability quickly uncovers its true intentions as a bitter condemnation...

I have two reservations about this text. First, whereas Hicks' rejection of postmodernism is [meant to be] supported by summaries of its key figures, the book is surprisingly 'light' on exposition... [and such] cursory summaries do the history of thought and its students a serious injustice. Whether Hicks' interpretations are right or wrong is only a secondary concern (although I believe too many of his interpretations are more wrong than right). The problem is that a reader has no basis in Hicks' text itself to assess those interpretations. After all, interpretations need as much defense as arguments in order to be convincing. What's more, since the results of Hicks' interpretations serve as the basic premises of his subsequent critical argument, a thorough hermeneutics is indispensable. Second, although it accuses (rightly I think) postmodernism of being too polemical, Hicks' text is itself an extended polemic. Instead of disproving postmodernism, Hicks dismisses it; instead of taking postmodernism seriously and analyzing it carefully on its terms, Hicks oversimplifies and trivializes it, seemingly in order to justify his own prejudice against postmodernism. If postmodernism is in fact untenable, which it very well might be, Stephen Hicks has unfortunately not demonstrated that."
The Hicks-Peterson account of the relevant philosophical developments is that (i) postmodernism starts with Rousseau and Kant, (ii) who are irrationalists, and (iii) it becomes popular among socialists, (iv) because socialism is inconsistent with being reasonable and so socialists are obliged to reject reason. Every single one of these claims is astonishing, and at odds with mainstream scholarship. But there's no attempt to engage the mainstream scholarship to show where it errs, nor are these positions developed through a sustained engagement with the primary sources. So there's not really much scholarly work to do here, beyond objecting to the quality of this kind of scholarship and pointing people to mainstream scholarship on these issues--as Lorkovic says, the crucial problem is that there isn't the kind of scholarly work backing up these theses, that is needed for a sustained and critical appraisal of them.

>>10596586
I had expected them to be making a bad version of something like the argument that Descartes' and Kant's turn to the subject leads to Nietzsche inverting morality and making all values subjective and bringing about relativism, thus requiring us to make a return to premodern values (an argument I have heard ancient and Thomistic thinkers make, one that I think comes from some of Heidegger's more conservative students, maybe Strauss; I'm not sure).

But the Hicks-Peterson account, as you describe it, sounds like some conspiracy theory level stuff!

>>10596592
I think that may be part of the appeal of it, the idea of knowing "what's "REALLY" going on" and all that. (Plus, easier to think that there's a big spooky conspiracy on than it is to actually research and read the philosophers in question.)
Gnostic "secret knowledge" has always been appealing for the power it affords its self-professed holders.

>>10596395
some 'sociopaths' are actually quite decent people, just not neurotypical. Being a decent person has nothing to do with one's mental health status, it's about deconstructing racism, sexism and ableism my dude.

>>10596453
After going through the transcript, it seems like he's simply not rigorous and doesn't operate with good faith:

"So here's what the postmodernists believe: They don't believe in the individual. That's the logos. Remember, Western culture is Phallogocentric. Logo is logos. That's partly the Christian word, but is also partly the root word of logic.

Okay, they don't believe in logic.

They believe that logic is part of the process by which the patriarchal institutions of the West continue to dominate and to justify their dominance. They don't believe in dialogue. The root word of dialogue is logos -- again, they don't believe that people of good will can come to consensus through the exchange of ideas. They believe that that notion is part of the philosophical substructure and practices of the dominant culture."

The leaps you have to go through from "phallogocentric" to a hatred of dialogue I think reveals this as nothing more than a sad political rant.

He also doesn't seem to understand the non-christian root of Logos.

When Heraclitus is talking about the Logos, he is not talking about the individual that Peterson is talking about - he is talking about the underlying unified structure of the world (which, by the way, Heraclitus does not think we have much access to).

>>10596586
This fact is why it's hard to have a serious discussion about the potential of the notion of a philosophical 'postmodernism' while engaging with Peterson at the same time. It doesn't appear, to my limited knowledge, that Peterson has ever seriously considered or worked on the thought that he thinks 'postmoderns' bring to every discipline in the humanities and sciences. He has no self authored account of 'postmodernism', and he seems to content himself with Hicks account. So the question becomes, why even bother talking about the mans philosophical positions when he seems to espouse very little on the core tenet of his thesis, that postmodernism is real and it's out there corrupting the youth. If resentment is postmodern, then sure, you can find postmodernism in certain places, but that isn't what the term 'postmodern' has historically meant and it's disingenuous to represent it as being so.

I think Peterson erred in bringing some vague philosophical boogeyman into his critique of current western academic norms, and he would be better suited to just talking about why resentment is bad and how he understands resentment to be present in the academy. I would still think the man was deeply wrong, but at least I would be able to understand the grounds of his critique, but this nonsense of fighting off 'postmodernism' that's not even remotely related to postmodernism as it's been historically used is tilting at windmills.

>>10596586
>(i) postmodernism starts with Rousseau and Kant
And they would be reacting against the modernist philosophy of the Sun King's reign or what? How is postmodernism meant to start before modernism's really begun? Most postmodernists are looking for a way to reject Kant as modernist. You could maybe argue Nietzsche into that period as a rejection of Kant, but Jesus bicycle-riding Christ, Kant is pretty much the central figure of modern thought. Calling him the start of postmodernism is bizarre.

>>10596612
Peterson is actually Hegelian-Straussian-Neocon megabrain heroically defending the real dialectical Geist against the sophists of muh radical alterity he's probably the most important living world-historical figure after Trump, the god-emperor himself.

>>10596577
>that doesn't answer anything. some minorities are more successful than some whites and that's a fact. the average IQ is only used for discrimination and nothing else
it's a cost-benefit analysis between societal cohesion, tribal conflict and measurable benefits. like everything else

>Now you're mixing up race and IQ which vary on circumstances and individual basis.
it's not a random distribution and if a group is doing badly it's harmful to all if we just pretend it's because of racism. it's harmful because it misdiagnoses the problem and how to solve it

> i know that for most countries it's not that bad
right, I don't care if you don't believe me. I don't expect any "sound" argument to change anything. at best there'll be a cataclysmic event, at worst there'll be slow decay and degeneration.

>again, this doesn't apply to you in sweden, more right wing populism
believe me, it works for beating white people over the head all over the world.

>>10596626
>Every single one of these claims is astonishing, and at odds with mainstream scholarship.

>>10596626
He hasn't read the stuff he's criticizing. His training is not in philosophy, though he might well have taken a class here or there. But when he talks about Marxism or post-modernism, it's readily apparent he simply hasn't read original sources. Instead, he's parroting common-place dismissals, and he's managed to trick of bunch of people who've read even less that he knows what he's talking about. I've seen him misquote, misinterpreted basic explanations of Derrida or Foucoult which would be better read by a first year philosophy student. And the arrogance which he talks with is so mind boggling I really start to think he's one of the most anti intellectual public figures around.

The only thing interesting about the Jordan Peterson phenomenon is that is shows that bubbling beneath the anti-intellectualism of the far right, there's a craving to have academics they can call their own. But what they want from their academics is not actual instruction. They just want to be validated in their intellectual indolence.

>>10596645
I know, but I just want to know what they're claiming is the modernist period of thought, and what it constitutes. I suppose if they couldn't define postmodernism, they probably didn't think to put anything about modernism in there. But I really want to believe the guy who wrote that book thinks what we should consider modern philosophy at it's highest is the ballet dancing monarch or something else. If he has a definition of modernism, I'm sure it's just as bizarre as it being the Sun King, so lay it on me if you've got it.

>>10596511
I have no personal allegiance to Peterson, but long before his rise to fame I've believed that it would be good to convey malicious yet compelling misinterpretations of the work of continental philosophers to the general public in order to punish these thinkers for the for their dense writing style and to help radicalize the public against academia. Peterson is a crude manifestation of this vision.
>>10596513
If their deception is helps to defend against a greater evil, they should be praised. Hell, I've always kind of admired snake oil salesmen.

>>10590464
this thread is proof that /pol/ and leftists are evil demons and need to be banned from the Earth and their teachings considered hexes whenever spoken or written. Look at the passive agressive posturing left, incapable of properly defending themselves without constantly leaving their flanks open to the most petty kinds of red herrings and hit-n-run attacks. Look at these right wing apes and their non-thinkingness their lack of care for their own creation, they spew vile nothings into the abyss and satisfy themselves with the sight of their own blood from biting their gums and tongues in anger. They’re unread, illiterate, selfish, angry and stupid people. All of you are embarassing. This man is a fraud and has no power, he can’t understand the literature he reads nor the philosophy he prattles about. standing up to mentally ill faggots, niggers and whores isn’t brave its just a normal reaction to insanity. Derrida is utter drivel, but of course hierarchy is real and built into everything and it is lamentable that this is so. Of course its a grave evil that the weak are culled and enslaved and of course dominance hierarchies breed psychopathic behavior. All of this stands while it remains true that these hierarchies exist. Is it good that the graduate professor gropes his students and plays politics with their research? Is it good that the politician cheats on his spouse with tax dollars, rails coke and touches on underaged aides and launders drug money? is it good that fortune 500 CEO’s are addicted to speed and cocaine and kill people for fun on private islands? is it good that military commanders throw away healthy young men’s lives for their own careers? no. But it is real, realer than the words in those books you fucking subhumans are obsessed with vacuuming up with your ugly eyes. Disgusting, sickening, demeaning to the human spirit all of it. Evil Left, evil right wing.

>>10596658
you realize this already happened in the 90s with the "science wars"? it's just the same shit for 4chan basement dwellers instead of fox news watching fat babyboomers.

>>10596693
The science wars failed to ascribe adequately malicious intentions the the writings of these people. The ultimate goal of this project is to convince the general public that the great thinkers of the continental tradition weren't even human but civilization destroying bio-automatons.

>>10596654
What interests me is that he's very, well, postmodern. He's a Jungian, and at its core is a further rejection of Freud's analysis of the psyche as too modern, even though it had rejected some of the modern physically based interpretations of Charcot. Jung's concern with almost pagan primordial forces external but exemplified in microcosm with us is postmodern, and shares interpretations of meaning with Hegelian and Heideggerean thought.

Most of the practical advice of Peterson is equivalent to Heidegger's practice of talking to farmers more than philosophers, and mirrors a lot of the postmodernists on the pleasures of life and Nietzsche on why he's so based all the time.

The bits of postmodernism which seem to have actually filtered through to him seem to be his core concepts. Whatever about him misunderstanding philosophy- how does he not see Jung's rejection of the modernistic scientific view of humans for postmodern human meaning? That's his job, and supposedly his passion. Jung returning to play with childhood toys and Heidegger returning to drawing water from a well and whittling are two of the ignition sparks of the postmodern period.

If he thought about it at all: why are the other people besides Jung who vocally reject Freud as too robotic and trying to fit science over human experience called postmodern and he's not? D&G's AntiOedipus reads like some of Jung's deepest ramblings. Baudrillard's co-opting of Disneyland comes out of the same tradition which sees the Jungian Peter Pan arise. He has to be suppressing some fringe awareness of those things from his job and training.

It feels like a Charlie and the Chocolate Factory "They always come out in the wash" moment is inevitable.

>>10596658
>If their deception is helps to defend against a greater evil, they should be praised. Hell, I've always kind of admired snake oil salesmen.
Good thing Derrida fought the commies and nazis then. :3

>>10596687
is this a pasta?

>>10596712
Only to become the greatest evil of them all.

>>10596687
radical centrist detected

>>10596720
You're thinking of Sauron not Derrida

>>10596726
Derrida is closer to Morgoh, desu. He makes Sauron look like a small fry.

>>10596732
Everyone knows Sauron is the best evil. Followed by Bilbo.

>>10596707
>Baudrillard’s co-opting of Disneyland
you stupid fucking idiot

>>10596743
Both Jungians with Peter Pan and Baudrillard with Disneyland are using them as examples of sites of simulation which follow specific functions.

>>10596687
that was really dumb

>>10591396
Further depends on the frame. Hummers would be better for off-road use and Ferarris are better for going fast, so it depends on what you are going to do with the car that makes it "best." Saying something is best in a given context is functional. The Ferrari is best in a certain group of cars where the criteria for best is speed, and where the Ferrari is fastest. The fastest is not arguable, since it can be measured. "Best" is not arbitrary, rather it just depends on what it is "best" for. This same thinking could be used for any hierarchical examination. Are multi-billionaire CEO's best? Well, best at running companies, but they aren't the "best" people to have an intimate relationship maybe.

>>10590494

>>10592909
you wish

so i watched some jordan peterson videos and he just seemed like a nice, friendly, somewhat eccentric old man

why is there so much worship/hatred? he seems like a nice, smart old guy with some 'traditional' views

>>10592921
you didn't read it.

>>10591074
>>10591651
>>10591836
>>10591907
>>10592445
>>10592495
was anything in the article about FOUCAULT or DERRIDA factually incorrect?

>>10599155
>why is there so much worship/hatred?
nobody knew who he was until he protested trannies getting their nails done at a female only salon. the fans of that have not worked out he doesn't write good books. it's a bit like harry potter obsessives. they don't get nobody cares what happens past the fourth book because no sensible kid would read that fuck off that, and they think the reason why nobody gets why they're so obsessed is because the fourth book was really worthwhile.
they need to be shot for their own good. their parents never read to them as children and they're a lost cause now.