/lit/ - Literature

>>10587495
What’s that say? I’m assuming it’s about the holy trinity.

You think you’re smart/logical enough to comprehend God?

h e r e s y
e r e s y h
r e s y h e
e s y h e r
s y h e r e
y s e r e h

>>10587495
Your mind is not your body is not your soul, yet all 3 are still you. The trinity is how we understand a multi-dimensional being passing through our reality.

It's pretty easy really. You (a human) are one person with two essences/substances/natures (i.e. body and soul).

God is one essence/substance/nature with 3 persons (i.e. the father, son and holy spirit)

>>10587495
ice is h20
water is h20
gas is h20

>>10587502
the three outer circles say 'father', 'son', and 'holy spirit'. The inner circle says 'god', and the connecting bars say either 'is' or 'is not'.

>>10587502
You have to deny logic to believe in God, and we all know what happens when one denies logic, as seen in Plato's and Aristotle's refutations of the sophists.

>>10587515
Yes, Its the core idea of transcendence, and how we understand the connections from in to out.

>>10587522
h2o FUCK

>>10587524
>le only atheism is le logical

>>10587524
Technically no, God is a logical solution to an unsolvable problem.

>>10587522
looooooooooooool

good analogy anon (genuine)

>>10587495
That's because we listen to it instead
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en3YTSViS6s

>>10587539
ok, let me be more specific: you have to deny logic to believe in the trinity.

Hot damn I’m so glad I’m no longer an edgy atheist who relies on muh logical analysis.

It’s nice knowing you’ll never be able to fully understand what really matters but it’s okay cause you’re given glimpses of it if you look often enough.

>>10587521
one person has multiple essences, how does from that you think it's comprehensible that one being is three fucking persons and one essence?

>>10587522
Unironically gotem

>>10587495
If
a=d
b=d and
c=d
then a=b
Oh and since the trinity isn't in the bible this is not a literature thread :P

>>10587495
The key concept in the doctrine of the Trinity is God's incomprehensibility. God is so far beyond man and human logic that we can never understand Him. The Father is not the Son is not the Spirit, but all are God, despite how this fails to make any sense. You must have faith, because you absolutely cannot have understanding. See >>10587502. Attempts to understand the Trinity, like >>10587522, are all necessarily heretical; the quoted poster commits the modalistic heresy, for example. >>10587550
has it exactly right. Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw if you haven't yet.

The trinitarian viewpoint is unbiblical. "For this is life eternal, that they might know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent" (John 17:3). What is life eternal? To know God. One cannot know the unknowable. But this is precisely the doctrine of the Trinity- "The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible," as the Athanasian Creed puts it.
The Old Testament prophets didn't seem to have any trouble understanding God. Abraham conversed with Him, Moses spoke with Him face to face, Isaiah saw Him seated upon His throne. God can be understood, by a holy man. God has done nothing since the beginning of the world, but reveal his secret unto his servants the prophets (Amos 3:7)- and what is his secret? Himself, His perfections, characteristics, and attributes- all God really wants is to reveal Himself to man, but man will have none of it. How did mortal man respond to the greatest revelation of God's character, the very Son of God? They killed him.

>>10587522
Ice water and gas are not distinct things. Gas is just loose ice.

Not to be mean but I've never seen a convincing argument how they are part of the same god other than because you assert the concept to be monotheistic.
3 divine persons=3 divinities

>>10587645
>The trinitarian viewpoint is unbiblical

>The bible teaches there is one god
>The bible teaches this god has 3 distinct persons that share in the divine attributes
Where do you think the early church got those ideas?

>>10587664
And Jesus is just God in human form. It is one divinity, not 3. I'm not even Christian but I don't understand why brainlets have such a hard time understanding this.

>>10587689
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabellianism

>>10587515
>a multi-dimensional being passing through our reality.
Your heart seems to be in the right place, but it's incorrect to call God a multi-dimensional being, and to say He passes through through our reality. God is an uncreated being beyond all dimensions. Dimensions are part of creation. Yet all things are of him, and through him, and to him (Rm11:36)-- He doesn't pass through, everything is in God.

>>10587642
If a=car, b=push bike, c=plane and d=form of transport then the formula could be satisfied.

Checkmate mathlet

>>10587698
Okay? Literally no major sect of Christianity follows this theology today.

>>10587689
>And Jesus is just God in human form
And a distinct person from God the father.

>but I don't understand why brainlets have such a hard time understanding this
Because you engage the discussion on the lowest levels and interpret people discussing more nuanced aspects of the discussion based on that.

>>10587703
I accept that.

>>10587524
>Cites Plato
Ah yes the perfectly logical timaeus and world of perfect forms. No refuting that!

>>10587706
You don't get his point at all. He's accusing >>10587689 of the Sabellian heresy, correctly.

>>10587642
it's in the catechism, in the writings of the Church fathers, so it is a literature thread.

too, OP uses the word
>people
that's in a lot of literature. So again, this is a literature thread.

Are you a protestor of the faith?

>>10587707
This thread is full of idiots saying things along the lines of "well there's 3 of them so it can't be monotheism!", there is nothing nuanced about this discussion.

>>10587721
If that was his point then he is entirely incorrect, nowhere in that single line of text did I say anything that goes against Trinitarianism.

>>10587725
>Everything that ever was written about belongs on a literature board.

>Are you a protestor of the faith?
Why are christlarpers so cringey?

>>10587738
>Jesus is just God in human form
This is the problem. Jesus is not just God made manifest in a human mode, or through a human-shaped lens. That's modalistic, and denies the personality of Christ. Jesus is His own person.
Further, claiming "Jesus is just God in human form" sounds suspiciously like denying that Christ is fully man, which is its own heresy (or two or three or a dozen).
Using language to describe the Trinity is just begging to commit heresy, because the Trinity is, by the very formulation of the doctrine, incomprehensible, inexplicable, unknowable.

>>10587725
>Everything that ever was written about belongs on a literature board.

can't a guy be cheeky?

>Why are christlarpers so cringey?
>larp
okay, sure; correct you are

>>10587778
The idea that Jesus is God is something that is common to all of Christianity. Nothing about what I said is modalistic, you're inferring things from my post that aren't there in order to further your argument. It's disingenuous and immature, I think now is a good time to recommend you leave this thread.

>>10587835
>>10587739
whoopsie,
replied to myself rather than you

>>10587840
Um no these are my posts fuck off please

>>10587839
not him, but "Jesus is God in human form" is heresy m8, like God is some form of shapeshifter, and it's only one person, not three.

>>10587839
I apologize if my comment felt like putting words in your mouth. You may not have intended any heretical views in your comment, and you may not hold any. But imprecision in your language leaves the door wide open to heretical interpretations in a subject where the language used is incredibly precise. Orthodox Christology cannot be summed up to such a vague statement as "Jesus is just God in human form." Entire ecumenical councils were fought over smaller points than this.

>>10587871
No it's not, you're literally just inferring nonsense from my post to fit your little narrative. Nobody said anything about shapeshifting until you made this post.

>>10587880
I'm not Christian at all, none of these are my views. I just don't see why people always make threads and posts about not understanding the concept of the trinity. It's not hard to get.

>>10587674
Stop.

The issue I can see with intellectual discussion is the trinity. Most of us here on 4chan believe in God, after all we have been created, we must admit this much.

The trinity just doesn't make any sense. Philosophically, it is devoid of reason. God is one, and one person alone. To worship any particular physical person like Jesus, Muhammad, or Moses, just feels wrong, dirty even.

I am NOT worshiping a person. I would, however worship the Aristotlean prime-mover.

>>10587927
>Most of us here on 4chan believe in God
Fun fact: 100% of people who say that don't believe in God

>>10587860
fuck off

>>10587949
Why? I'm just saying. A lot of people are monotheistic. We believe the validity of a God to be philosophically sound, as most rational adults would.

>>10587954
>editing a screenshot to impersonate me
That's pretty fucking low you scum

>>10587778
So Jesus is fully human and yet at the same time fully God, correct?

>>10588030
Fully human and fully God

>>10587921
>I just don't see why people always make threads and posts about not understanding the concept of the trinity. It's not hard to get.
The Trinity is an incredibly complex doctrine with its own very precise vocabulary and millennia of rich history. It is extremely hard to get. If you don't think so, you don't understand the Trinity. There are countless nuances and subtleties to it, each absolutely necessary to rule out this or that or the other heretical belief.

>>10588036
The basic idea behind it isn't hard and that's all /lit/ ever talks about anyway.

>>10588030
Yes, trinitarian orthodoxy is that Jesus is fully God and fully man. Not a man given a Godly nature. Not a God who came in the appearance of man. Not half-God and half-man. Not a man adopted by God as his Son and invested with divinity. Not a created being of the Father, a god under God. Not a man Jesus possessed of the divine Christ spirit. Not an aspect of the one God.
And those are just the heresies that immediately spring to mind.

>>10588047
There is no basic idea. Or, rather, there are a lot of basic ideas, and they're all wrong, like >>10587522. It's a complex idea. If that's all /lit/ wants to talk about, that's unfortunate, since there is a lot of richness and beauty to it- I say that as a nontrinitarian.

>>10588075
There isn't any beauty to Christianity, it's a bleak nihilistic religion that needs to die. It sucked the beauty from the world and gave us what we have today. This isn't a theology board, you're not going to get anything beyond surface level discussion.

>>10587495
I'm an atheist and even I don't exactly see what the issue is with it. It seems a semantic issue to call the trinity monotheism. Hinduism has basically the same arrangement between the figures of Vishnu, Brahma and Shiva. In either case, these are treated as the distinct emanations of a supreme deity. To act like the concept of the trinity should engender some kind of crisis of faith is preposterous.

>>10588128
>I'm an atheist
Stopped reading right there.

>>10588082
OP here. The bible itself has some quite beautiful, powerful books, pleasing to read. Ecclesiastes being my favorite. However I can't help but think that most people who tried to get their head around the trinity ended up losing their faith, even if they remained inside the institution because of their status and reputation.

>>10588137
>stopped reading right there.

would have stopped reading right there had there been anything else to read

>>10588128
In orthodox Christianity its important in what manner or sense there are three emanations of a supreme deity. The distinction between one hypostasis (person) in three aspects and one ousia (substance) in three hypostases is critical. One is heretical and the other orthodox.
The entire subject of the Trinity is semantic issues, but that doesn't mean they're not important.

>>10588157
Brevity is the soul of /lit/

>>10588158
They're not important to the individual votary. My point was there is nothing about this issue that should cause anyone to assess their religious convictions. I think we can agree on that.

>>10587495
>Try to understand life
>Nothing makes sense
It doesn't matter morty we are just chemicals, so many questions to be answered

>Try to understand God
>Incomprehensible
Wow religion is for idiots, you christfags are delusional

>>10587495
>tfw you wrote too big and couldn't fit spiritus sancti in the circle but realized it too late

>>10588183
Oh yes, I agree with that. The Trinity is interesting intellectually but not really on a personal, emotional, or spiritual level.
>>10588191
The artist should have known Jesus' lesson about counting the cost!

>>10587642
That logical proposition is not true at all. You didn't derive your conclusion from the premise.

>>10587955
>as most rational adults would
Just stop this playground appeal to "being grown-up", it reeks of the immaturity you think you've moved beyond.

>>10588137
>Guys I'm a Christian!!!! I finally fit in!

>>10587515
"You don't have a soul, you are a soul, you have a body."
-C.S. Lewis, generally sensible Trinitarian Christian

>>10587495
>Tfw you see a ternary relation.

>>10587495
incidentally people report seeing that trinity face during DMT trips a lot

>>10588881
Something happened to his beard

>>10588829
Great post. XDDDDDDD

SCIENTISM IS PROGRESS GUYS. I AM COMPLETELY SCIENTIFIC, REALITY EXISTS TO SHOW PEOPLE THAT UR GENES ARE BETTER THAN OTHER GENES

THATS WHY WE HAVE THE SELFISH GENE™ JUST LISTEN TO AYN RAND SHE SAYS ITS A VIRTUE TRUST ME RAGNAR REDBEARD RAGNAR REDBEARD SELFISHNESS IS NOT BOWING TO OTHERS I DONT NEED GOD

Did I get the atheists pretty good guys?

>>10587522
zygote is you
human is you
corpse is you?

God, his incorporeal and human incarnations. The holy spirit is how God appears to us on earth, and Jesus was God in the flesh.

>>10587495
>I'm literally so rational I'm incapable of understanding metaphor

>>10588899
based on this arrangement, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume there is a fourth face behind?

>>10587502
What's that say? I'm assuming its about the holy shit this poster is a dumb fuck

You think you're smart/logical enough to comprehend Latin?

>>10589476
have you ever read the man who was thursday?

>>10589505
why? Does it say something like "'niqqa you dun wanna SEE dat fourth face!!!!!"?

>>10587545
thanks anon

>>10587515
This is a heresy. Either modalism or partialism.

>>10587645
>>10587502
Please read Aquinas.

>>10589515
>>10589505

Answer me!

>>10587522
Except water is real.

>>10588913
I’ve lost track of who you’re even attempting to mock here

>>10588030

Yes, as are you, by the way.

Why do Catholics dwell on the concept of the trinity when it is basically not even a thing in the bible? Catholicism perverted Jesus' teachings.

>>10591188
Welcome to post-ironic posting kid

Gonna put it in nice and simple terms for you
I have some paper, some leather and some ink
none of these items is in itself a book
but when I put the ink on the paper and the paper in the leather I have a book. Or considering you're a retarded atheist I'll explain using terms you can relate to. I have a mouthpiece, battery and a vaporizer. By themselves these components don't make up a vape but when I connect the vaporizer to the mouthpiece and put the battery in then I have a vape.
Was that simple enough?

>>10592147
partialism heresy

Jesus isn't a component of God, he is God.

>>10587522
dank