/lit/ - Literature

Ishiguro just won a Nobel, pseud

>>10545465
>I don't know about them so they don't exist
Back to plebbit

Just read more

>>10545479

I did ask if it's a consequence of me living in the west

>>10545465
jin yong is one of the best authors of the 20th century, comparable to tolstoy

>>10545475
So did Shamomo D'dongo

don't know about modern stuff but classic chink lit is great

>>10545746
Isn't actually """great""" or is it just stupid anime shit?

>>10545767
both

>>10545465
Because asians are social autists

Every asian classic is not only utter-inspired by Euro masters, but its most of the time fetishism garbage, with a few exception like The Makioka Sisters, but even this book suffers from so much fluff you actually just fly through some pages without even reading it

surprise surprise, traditional IQ is not a good measure of one's general performance

Mishima, Dazai, Tanizaki, Kawabata, Akutagawa, Soseki, Abe, Murakami, Ishiguro- all Japanese writers famous internationally (Ishiguro is a Brit but ethnically Japanese). I'm not saying everyone I just listed is good, but to not know about these people betrays a level of ignorance I certainly wouldn't be proud to flaunt.

>>10545975
>Kawabata
The Master of Go is comfy, i think it was a collection of articles and not an actual book but still

>>10545975
>ishiguro
you low iq?
>>10546045
brainlet detected

>>10545489
why you gotta ask you stupid nigger?

>>10546051
He's ethnically asian so why shouldn't he count?

>>10545465
Eastern lit, especially Classical Chinese, has an extremely rich tradition. But at least in my opinion, it can seem superficial/tedious to Western readers because they have different ways of getting at many of the same questions we do, and began to do so at pretty different points. For example, the emphasis on self-aware textuality and irony in Western is a pretty recent phenomenon, and was finally codified in post-structuralism in the 20th century (i.e. where literally every word/meaning can be thought to imply its opposite); in the East, however, those ideas were already on paper in 4th century BC and even earlier in Daoist texts (read Chuang Tzu for a good example). Since the richness of those ideas is often encapsulated in traditional religious/philosophical symbols and references, they often go unnoticed by Western readers.

Think of it this way: if you removed the Judeo-Christian tradition from the West, which is our starting point for humanism (i.e. an anthropocentric universe) and all subsequent theophilosophical exploration (all the way through Nietzsche and up to Post-modernism, which is a reaction to that thought), and instead took Buddhist/Hindu/Daoist thought as the basis for your literature—thought that deals with inherent subjectivity/deletion of the self/individual consciousness from the get-go (something strongly resembling post-modernism)—you’d get a very different product. That’s Eastern lit. Not to say that it’s necessarily better, just that its history arrived at the same ideas we have in a very different order. For instance, for most of Chinese history the elite valued poetry as the highest form of art (think High Tang period for your best example), and if you look at the way their best poetry is arranged, duality/irony is literally a basic part of the verse structure: in many Chinese 8-line poems, for example, the first couplet of five-character lines sets up a strict thesis/antithesis relation (down to each one of the characters) that every subsequent couplet mirrors, develops, riffs off of, and subverts. Du Fu and Wang Wei are great examples. I’d be happy to link some of their work if you’re interested.

>>10546089
>"guys what are some good polish authors?"
>sienkiewcz, szymborska, conrad

I think Remains of the Day might have been written by an Asian lad. But then, it was about an English country house, so that cancels the Asianness out.

>>10545465
My Twisted World - Rodger

>>10546190
Not that guy but OP was talking about race you dingus.

>>10546190
imagine being this guy, so angry that you have to invent fights

>>10545475
He’s a hack who writes shit books

>>10546073
I think the question he really had was something along the lines of, "Is this worth getting into?"

>>10546213
go back to r/books friend

>>10545465
IQ was invented by insular white male stemlords to stroke themselves.

>>10545465
it's hard to translate them into english and only works guaranteed to be popular with western audiences will get a faithful translation. I bet more manga gets translated into english than actual books because there's way more demand.

Definitely doesn't have anything to do with China clamping down on all things artistic over the last century, not Japan raping the Korean peninsula for half a century, and definitely not SEA being a backwater purposefully left in the stone age so China, USA, and imperialist France can exploit those labs and her resources. That just about leaves Japan alone to shoulder the weight of literature in the East which, unless you're functionally retarded enough not to tell, they've held quite well. Kill yourself

>>10546151
Great post. I'm interested in the authors you mentioned. If you could link their work I'd love to read it

>>10546261
Here is Chuang Tzu: https://terebess.hu/english/chuangtzu.html
Being/non-being starts in section two, but the whole thing is pretty short and worth the read.

Here are some Wang Wei poems: http://www.chinese-poems.com/wang.html
I would recommend trying to find a book at your library that includes Pei Di’s poems in the Wang Stream collection (didn’t have any luck online), it’s literally a conversation in poems. This source is nice because it gives literal translations for the characters in order, which lets you see the correspondence in the couplets. Wang Wei is a master of orchestrating your spatial experience as you walk through the poem—try to visualize as much as you can, and think about how everything has its opposite.

Here is some Du Fu: http://www.chinese-poems.com/du.html
His Autumn Meditation series is regarded as possibly the best Chinese poetry every written, but it’s incredibly dense. I would start with Moonlit Night as a good example of a poem that seems deceptively simple, but actually conveys quite a bit with impressive economy (it helps to know that the moon generally invokes in Chinese lit, on one level, many people in different places looking at the same thing). Remember to think in couplets. Read as closely as you can, it’s very rewarding.

>>10546229
Kind of backfired when East Asians beat them then.

>>10546881
Very good posts. Do you have an example of the relations between couplets? Would be neat to see in action.

Surely there's an erotica reading guide or something.

>>10545767
>stupid anime shit

>>10545465
Literature is a product of white/European culture and reflects European individualism and creativity, which are traits that were formed over millennia within Europeans alone. Why would Asians or any group other than Europeans be good at it? It's not their culture. Use logic and stop thinking in universalist/egalitarian/semitic paradigms. Literature is white/European culture alone, regardless of whether others try to ape it.

>>10546966
you should smash your fingers under a moving car's wheels

>>10546228
>Literally having shit taste
Why aren’t you at r/books, friends?

>>10545465
Regarding that image.. I'm not going to dispute it, but I will try to broaden your view on populations. Is that reaction genetic?

>>10546151
Sometimes I wonder though, if Eastern phil is so advanced and harmonious, why are almost all asians so desperate to escape and/or burn down their own traditional culture and blatantly copy western practices and though.

>>10545865
>>10545919
>>10546151
>>10546229
This desu

>>10545975
Japan is an island of it's own culturally. I can't put my finger on it but is seems like they have their own version of a soul, completely different from that of europeans or blacks (who have surprisingly similar souls at the end of the day despite IQ differences) but souls nonetheless. This compares to other east asians like chinese or koreans who are archetypal p zombies.

>>10547641
all that is solid melts into iar

>>10545489
>3 Nobel laureates are ethnically Japanese
>Murakami shit though he is sells incredibly well
>2 Nobel laureates are ethnically Chinese
>Murasaki is often called the first novelist
I don't mean to sound like a dick but I think it is a combination of being a westerner combined with a lack of general knowledge of literature.

>>10545865
>Every asian classic is not only utter-inspired by Euro masters
I see that Asians have mastered time travel.

>>10547641
Because the west was better technologically. China failed to modernise and was fucked over hard so it learned its lesson, Japan modernised to avoid the same fate.

>no major asian authors
Who are Kawabata, Akutagawa, Mishima, Kenzaburo, Mo Yan, Xingjian, Kobo, Lu Xun, Yutang, Dazai and Tanizaki?
Why are you such a faggot, OP?
Shit thread.

>>10545865
>Every asian classic is not only utter-inspired by Euro masters
Everybody on this board is legit fucking retarded

>>10546229
And the only people who fail are niggers

>>10548696
>I don't know how IQ works
So you are saying you are a nigger?

>>10548442
>zero consistency between family, given, pen, Nick, and full names
maybe it is you who is the faggot anon

>>10548873
>being consistent with the names as they are known in the west.
I bet you pronounce Cicero with a hard c you faggot.

>>10548901
Cicero wasn't a Kike.

>>10548907
>doesn't understand classical Latin pronunciation
The state of this board.

>>10545465
>it seems they lag behind in creativity
I hate this meme. Western video games and cartoons look like infantile rubbish compared to Japan's.

>>10548923
>video games
>cartoons
>creative

>>10545465
Just because there wasn't any Asian literature that was canonized doesn't mean Asians couldn't write as well.

>>10548901
but no one calls them "kobo," "xingjian," "yutang," or "kenzaburo" you absolute plebian

>>10548944
>but no one calls them "kobo,"
I do. Checkmate.

>>10545475
>Ishiguro
>Asian

He's a brit with japanese heritage, he doesn't even speak japanese. When the japanese press mentions him, they use katakana (which is used for foreign words) rather than hiragana (which is used for native japanese words) even though his name would be perfectly possible to write in hiragana.

>>10549015
Op was talking about race

>>10549018
race isnt real

>>10547641
Because of the allure of Western humanism and subsequent ideologies that address the question of an anthropocentric universe, which have puzzled the West for years but are relatively new in the history of Eastern thought. The Chinese considered themselves as the collective center of the universe, but don’t possess the self-aggrandization that comes with placing the individual soul at the center of the universe instead of their immense cultural inheritance and tradition. Radical humanism is a bit of an ego trip if your default state is trying to pursue radical non-being. We’re seeing a hard swing back to subjective self-dissolution across the globe, though.

>>10549018
>implying your race and not the culture you grew up in has any influence on artistic capabilities and level of creativity

>>10549079
I didn't say that
>>10549062
I didn't say that either

>>10549066
China and Japan did not westernise because of humanism, they westernised to be able to compete with the west. Japan didn't begin to have anything to do with humanism until over 70's after they decided to Westernise and after they lost a war.

The True Canon

http://www.chinaknowledge.de/Literature/Science/sikuquanshu.html

>>10545465
i think this is the stupidest thread ive ever read on /lit/ well done anon.

>>10549188
But with legit good contributions from one anon about Chinese poetry.

>>10547332
y tho

>>10548810
If you aren't getting triple digits you are failing as a human

>>10545510
>Comparable to TolSoyBoy

>>10546228
He's not wrong though.

>>10546045
that is not the case

>>10549188
This, it isnt even baiting if you feel pity for the OP

>>10549603
samefag
and yes you're wrong

OPs pic is really gettin to me.
Genetics can determine a lot of shit. What does it mean though "cognitive potenial?"
Help.

>>10550376
Don't worry, your genetics would prevent you from understanding the answer because of your cognitive potential.

>>10545465
Asians have below average verbal IQ.

>>10550376
It doesn't mean shit

>>10550507
>Asians are below average in a foreign language

whodove thought l?

>>10550507
>asians are below average in a foreign langauge
no shit sherlock

classical chinese has far more demands on verbal and linguistic capabilities than most european langauges anyway, a literate chink would BTFO whities in a like-for-like comparison

>>10548933
The majority of the world's artists and creativity are involved in them today. Get over it.

>>10549079
He isn't, OP is.

>>10551214
Except nobody in video games is an artist and none of them are creative. They make craft, not art.
>>10548923
Japanese cartoons have abysmal animation, they just have more realistic character models so people don't notice.

There are. Fred Wah is one of the biggest poets in Canada. Fuck off /pol/tard

>>10546151
Christianity is not anthropocentric you fucking moron.

>>10549109
Chinese literature was already beginning to westernize in the early 20th century with Lu Xun, May 4th movement, etc. Marxist communism is a western idea. I don’t know why you insist on talking about Japan when their literary tradition is considerably less vast than the Chinese one. Quit cherry-picking.

Moreover, saying Asia westernized “to compete with the West” is tantamount to the same thing that I am. Why do you think they wanted to compete with the West? Both European culture and politics stem from the same Judeo-Christian/humanist/subsequently anti-humanist tradition. Western influence upset China’s notion of their tradition standing at the center of the universe, so they began to fundamentally reevaluate their functional beliefs.

>>10551245
>Animation quality is a function of the number of frames per second
bruh

>>10551245
>Except nobody in video games is an artist and none of them are creative. They make craft, not art.
Imagine thinking this for real though. Makes me laugh like when I see antinatalist threads.

>>10548923
>Every anime is a copypaste of some previous anime to a point anime games and culture became a parody of itself
>''They have creativity because they are becoming popular''
More

More like they just shit pretty dumb entertainment for a pretty dumb general population, like a junk food/candy store

>>10546197
lmao

>>10545465
>creativity
>Jewish American authors
lmao

>>10552661
> he doesn't think breaking things and laughing at their pieces is creativity
are you an anti-semite anon?

>>10551245

Alpha Centauri is art.

>>10545465
can you read an asian language?

This is stupid. Protip: don't look at literature through the lens of race.

>>10553830
*blocks your path*

>>10547314
Nearly every Chinese "classic" reads like a cheesy Shoen manga, not even comparable to Greek classics like the Odyssey

>>10545465
>Can any Chinese authors be compared to the top European or White/Jewish American authors?
Of course.

But you have to realize that the sublime greatness of Western literature comes from our cultural knowledge of God and Christianity, not ""creativity"".

The Chinese know little about Christianity so it makes sense that their art is less profound.

Racial bias: the thread.

asia/russia became westernized at the moment when the west started inhibiting its dionysian drive because of industrialization and liberalism. so they are cargo culting a cargo cult, which makes them at least twice removed from a real creative mindset (the greek/italian pagan/renaissance mindset)

Reminder that the novel was considered an inferior form of art in China for hundreds of years. Even their 'great novels' read more like histories or anthologies, and the Hong Long Meng has a generous helping of poetry in it

>>10545465
Asians aren't very good at emotion and fine arts. It's almost as if they all have autism.

>>10550376
Someone with certain genetics will ace his degree in an ivy league uni and go on to live a happy fulfilling life. Some else with different genetics will flunk out of community college and die while working physical labor.

>>10554106
Reminder that the novel was considered a pleb form of art in all of Rome, which is why only very few Roman prose-novels are known, as everybody refused to review them

>>10550376
Brain power.

>>10554114
Berserk is one of the most emotional stories of the past ~50 years I've read though.