/lit/ - Literature

Homosexuality is a sin, you degenerate. You need chemical or medical castration and immediate psychiatric help.

>>10530478
>homosex
>fascist
He was neither of those.

He was a heterosexual nationalist who visited gay bars a few times as research for a novel he was writing.

Why do liberals insist on calling everyone they dislike a fascist and everyone they like a homosexual and everyone they admire a homosexual fascist?

>>10531091
He was definitely bisexual. Note how he fetishized suicide at the hands of a faithful lover in patriotism and this was carried out by his closest confidant and rumoured lover. His family obviously didn't want their reputation to be shattered. Also, homoeroticism pervades even how he wrote about heterosexual romances. I also wouldn't call him a fascist but your whole whining about muh liberals is both pitiful and uninformed.

>>10530478
I know it's a translation, but is all of his prose this bad?

>>10530478
>tfw bisexual fascist
My existence triggers /lit/ and /leftypol/

>>10530478
>you'll never deliberately fail a coup attempt so you can have an excuse to commit sudoku

>>10531115
>rumoured lover
>rumoured

>His family obviously didn't want their reputation to be shattered.
You're clueless.

>Also, homoeroticism pervades even how he wrote about heterosexual romances.

If you're unable to seperate an author from his work (or rather what your AIDS-rattled faggot brain reads into his work) then you're not a good reader.

>I also wouldn't call him a fascist but your whole whining about muh liberals is both pitiful and uninformed.
She lost. Get over it.

You have nothing except insinuation.

>>10531189
I would also spend my whole life training a leather-daddy gay army and "mentoring" young boys by sleeping in the same room while writing many volumes full of homosexual and homoerotic content while also being totally straight. Also, why do you read Mishima of all people if you hate gays? He wrote fairly positive about homosexual feelings. Back to your fucking containment board brainlet.

>>10531229
you know i think >>10531189 is probably just a troll, the hillary reference out of left field is trying a bit too hard

i believe mishiman was gay anyway

Totally just frequenting gay bars for reasearch, guys, hahaha.

>>10531126
Are you seriously this fucking retarded?

Mishima was obviously a narcissistic homosexual

He began to see a reflection of his own body in the bodies of others and his love for his own body naturally became a love for those reflections as well

>>10531229
>I would also spend my whole life training a leather-daddy gay army
Why do you faggots sexualize everything?

>and "mentoring" young boys by sleeping in the same room
Once again, why do you faggots sexualize everything?

>while writing many volumes full of homosexual and homoerotic content
Only a couple of his novels touch in the subject. You realize that straight people can write about faggots and not actually be faggots, right? Was Natsume Sōseki actually a fucking feline?

>while also being totally straight.
Once again. You've only presented insinuation and no actual evidence. You faggots are obsessed with rainbowwashing every cultural historical figure, from Adam to Shakespeare. It's almost as pathological as sodomy itself. Does it make you feel validated when famous people share your perversion? You're still a loser. Their success doesn't rub off on you.

>Also, why do you read Mishima of all people if you hate gays? He wrote fairly positive about homosexual feelings.
He also wrote positively about suicide so you'd better kill yourself.

>Back to your fucking containment board brainlet.
Back to Redit.

>>10531235
Sorry, Berniebro. Didn't mean to distract you from prepping your bull.

The idea that Mishima was a homosexual is only prevalent in the West. I'm guessing it has its roots in the toxic anti-Asian racism of Westerners. They see a muscular, charismatic, handsom Asian male like Mishima, and they feel threatened and compelled to project homosexuality on him as a way to feminized him like they do with Asian men in general. This also allows the Western homosexual political lobby to culturally appropriate Mishima. It's so bad that you can't have a conversation about Mishima online in English without some brainwashed gaijin interjecting with the "well known fact" that he was "homosexual" first thing. It's astonishing to me how utterly brainwashed you Westerners are by your leftist political/cultural elite that this accusation is the only thing you associate this great writer and his work with in your tiny minds. You sicken me.

>>10530478
Homosexuality is a Western concept and as an identity inapplicable to the Japanese.

>>10531313
I had a friend who was in denial when it came to Sinatra's alcoholism, so I understand the cognitive dissonance you're going through.

>>10531334
he didnt write mishima was LGBT

>>10531336
I also have a friend who was convinced that Jesus was a Marxist so I understand your retardation.

>>10531331
>>10531334
No straight man makes use of the image of St. Sebastian in his work to show homosexual appreciation for the male form and then poses as a model for a photograph recreating the same scene.

>>10531349
>all appreciation for the male form is inherently and exclusively sexual in nature
How fucked in the head do you have to be to not only be perverted but to be so perverted that you're incapable of even conceiving of the possibility that other people aren't fucked up like you? Is it autism? Why is autism so strongly correlated with abnormal sexual development? Is it because they're unable to mirror the healthy psychology of people around them?

Mishima was gay as fuck, just compare his biography to that of the character in Confessions of a Mask. Despite being a very handsome and intelligent man, he was pretty much a succesful Buster Bluth. Also, he was probably the "purest" fascist ever, once you consider his politics were mostly aesthetic (even up to his "coup") and the inherent homoeroticism in fascism.
One of the most fascinating people ever tbqh

>>10531356
>all appreciation for the male form is inherently and exclusively sexual in nature
The point is that this is exactly how he presents the image in his work. Furthermore it has a history of being appreciated in a homoerotic fashion. Recreating that scene after having interpreted it that way would set me, a heterosexual male, a little ill at ease.

>>10531361
>just compare his biography to that of the character in Confessions of a Mask
This proves nothing. It literally proves nothing. Confessions of a Mask is a novel, a work of fiction. Compare Ian Fleming's biography with James Bond for fucks sake. Does that mean he was a spy? Conflating an author and his fiction al character is brainlet fanfiction shit.

>>10531371

Confessions of a Mask is considered at least partially autobiographical

>>10531371
Not only Ian Flemming was a fucking spy during WWII, you literally can't deny how a bunch of imagery which marks the protagonist from Confessions of a Mask during his childhood shows up elsewhere in his work, not to mention very specific situations of his life being equal to that of Kochan (the separation by his grandmother, the obsession with St. Sebastian, the obsession with overcoming physical weakness).

>>10531377
Everything any author ever writes is at least partially autobiographical. Have you never written any fiction?

>>10530478
He wasn't a fascist. I have no doubt that he was probably very aware of fascism, especially given its closeness to Imperial Japan (hence My Friend Hitler) but it is idiosyncratic and unfair to apply the label to him.

>>10531091
>>10531331
>>10531371
There is something deeply wrong here. If you have read Confessions of a Mask and are familiar with his life on an even cursory level, his sexuality becomes undeniable. His photographs of St. Sebastian are not only erotic - they are contextualised within Confessions of a Mask as the childhood source of his sexual fixation on bondage and heroic death... notice these themes not only purveyed his life, his literature and his photography and filmography but also his fucking death.

Severe mental gymnastics on your part, and I'm not sure what the motivation is. Mishima made no effort to hide the strong autiobiographical impulses in his work. In fact Mishima has even been slandered as indulgent and narcissistic for it. His own homoeroticism was one element which he obviously explored, very deeply.

>>10531334
Mishima grew up in this little period called the uh 20th century, y'know, a few centuries after Japan came into contact with the West and all, and also the one where they got occupied by the um U.S. Army?

Even if you accept its premises, the argument makes as much sense as saying you can't apply the label of Catholic to Shusaku Endo. Mishima wrote explicitly as a Japanese in dialogue with the West, as a man confronting both tradition and modernity, within the nations borders and beyond it. He read Oscar Wilde, he read Thomas Mann. In Confessions of a Mask the protagonist identifies with the psychiatric label of "inversion", a term for homosexuality.

>>10531380
Ian Flemming was an intelligence officer in the military during WWII, not a spy. His work put him in contact with spies, which is what gave him insight into espionage. Wow, it's almost like an author can write about characters without having to be identical to those characters in real life, and can even extrapolate their own experiences into fictional scenarios. It's almost like that's how writing works.

>>10531389
Jesus Christ dude, at some point his fucking lover published their love letters. The man has been dead for close to 50 years, why do you care so much he was taking it up the arse.

>>10531386
Fiction is not reality. You can't use fiction as evidence for things in the real world.

>>10531394
I bet you're the type who interprets every love letter written between male friends in the Victorian era as evidence of a "homosexual relationship." The patholigization of male friendship as homosexual is a phenomenon limited to post-war Western culture, likely intended to dissolve social bonds and atomized men in order to enforce social compliance to the matriarchy.

>>10531400
>Fiction is not reality. You can't use fiction as evidence for things in the real world.
Is that really all you can say? It's a grossly reductive response. Of course fiction is always going to be distinct from reality, but your wholesale rejection of making any connection between the two is untenable. Especially given the strong Japanese tradition of the confessional novel, or the "I-Novel" - which Mishima directly evokes with his title.

Would you say there is nothing we can learn about the Marquis de Sade from his fiction? There are going to be points of departure from his real experiences, from his real sexual escapades and from his life, and yet at the same time there is an abundant resemblance.
Heart of Darkness is directly based on Conrad's own trip to the Belgian Congo and the impressions it made upon him.
A Personal Matter fictionalised but strongly parallel to Kenzaburo Oe's own fatherhood of a retarded son.

A cog is stuck in your head, I think. You cannot let go of the issue. You won't even entertain it enough to form a rebuttal beyond a simple rehashed and hasty evasive doctrine. Sexual pathology mixed with crude emotional politics. For some reason you are particularly attached to Mishima not so much as an object of truth but of merit, and you cannot let him be tainted by homosexuality.

How embarrassing. How revealing.

>>10531420
You have absolutely no evidence to justify your assumption, which is clearly politically and racially motivated. You've been totally vanquished. Consider yourself dismissed, faggot.

>>10531425
Those photos of a loinclothed Mishima holding swords and shit were taken by the same guy who took this photo. He was Tamotsu Yato who specialised in homoerotic photography. I guess Mishima was just friends with him coincidentally.

>>10531438
Guilt by association is a fallacy.

You're 1/6 of the way there, you bender.

>>10531443
Then why did you say my assumption is clearly politically and racially motivated?

>>10531420
>anon asks that you stop projecting your faggotry onto a public figure
>you respond by denying that you're projecting your faggotry and then project you faggotry onto that anon

Every time. I understand now why God dropped the fire and brimstone.

>>10531438
Pretty hot

>>10531448
Because it is.

>>10531451
How so? I didn't see anything of the sort in the other anon's argument

>>10531448
>commits an associative fallacy
>gets called out on it
>responds with a tu quoque fallacy

It must be true that homosexuals have the brains of women.

>>10531449
This is getting terribly autistic. When did anyone ask me to stop projecting anything?

Another point of hypocrisy: I never said I was gay, although I am. Whether that's something you picked up on rather rationally or something that you chose to assume for more rhetorical reasons I cannot quite divine. But you inferred my homosexuality from my posts without my ever stating so, correct?
The reason I "projected" faggotry onto him has less to do with his opinion than with his strange behaviour. I have noticed him posting the same retarded shit in these threads before, with the same intellectually vacant tone and bizarre emotional investment. The weird mix of hostility, repetitive mantras and refusal to seriously engage while still replying. I'm not saying he's a homosexual. But I am saying that he has some strange hangup about homosexuality. He could be someone with obsessive compulsive disorder with an obsession around homosexuality and its perceived contamination, or some shit. You can be irrationally obsessed with homosexuality without being homosexual yourself. My point is that his disagreement obviously dips a little deeper than pure intellectual dissension - and you no doubt detected a similar sort of investment in my posts to lead you to the conclusion I was a faggot.

>>10531451
And to what race and political creed do I belong?

>>10530478
Iktfb

>>10531481
>I never said I was gay, although I am

>anon asks that you stop projecting your faggotry onto a public figure
>you respond by denying that you're projecting your faggotry and then project you faggotry onto that anon

Where the fuck did /pol/ come from?
>Mishima isn’t gay
How much of a ideologically influenced brainlet do you have to be to believe this?

>>10531734
Why are Americans so vulgar? (You)

I think I've figured out the root cause of the anon's neurotic obsession with Mishima's homofaggotry. Notice how he lets slip - an utter non-sequitir - the accusation that people calling Mishima gay have "racial motivations"?

He is one of those /r/asianmasculinity types.
A terribly neurotic species. Impossible to deal with. Case closed.

>>10531806
>/r/asianmasculinity
I'm not sure what's going on in this thread but I've just had a look at that Asian masculinity thread and it's strange. I think they're probably all Asians living in the US. They seem quite sensitive too.

>>10531823
Me again. They seem to be from Asia, but expect recognition and respect on an almost all American site like reddit. They also seem to be triggered very easily. China, Japan, Korea etc all seem to be powerful and extremley large, populous and poweful nations so I'm not sure why they complain on reddit.

>see a thread about Mishima
>it's full of weaponized autism
Milo tweeted about him, didn't he?

Why is homosexuality so deeply rooted in japanese culture?

>>10531371
Holy fuck you’re genuinely retarded, huh? I mean, it’s probably axiomatic since you are a /pol/fag

An asian and a fag fighting over Mishima. LMAO.

>>10531091
This. He wasn't gay. It was just a fetish.

Assuming that Confessions of a Mask is an autobiographical work, he was gay as fuck. I guess the first fap of the vast majory of people was induced by a blonde girl with big tits. Mishima masturbated for the first time with a picture of St. Sebastian.

>>10532950
No, you don't get it, that was the character, Mishima himself had no obsession with Saint Sebastian whatsoever!

>>10532950
So what? It's not gay if it's just a fetish.

>>10532977
>being attracted by tied up men isn't gay

ok

>gay Japanese fascist
no wonder he killed himself.
seek help op.

>>10532895
>this
lol at you faggot

>>10531344
Witnessed

So we all agree that the guy vehemently denying Mishima's homo tendencies ITT is a severe closet case, right?

>>10533300
I usually find these allegations kinda cheap but in this case there's no other explanation.

>>10530478
unironically trying to achieve the mishima lifestyle.
>belive in beauty and romanticism
>love your nation
>love art
>read literature
>write

best lifestyle desu

>>10530478
>>10530982
>>10531091
>>10531115
>>10531127
>>10531189
WHICH WORK IS THIS QUOTE FROM Nationalism?

>>10533323
A fat fuck like you can’t truly achieve Mishima’a lifestyle of physical beauty

>>10533328
no, I can't, but a man can try

Someone explain the connection between homoeroticism and fascism to me please.

>>10533435
fascists are into physical fitness and so are gays, essentially

>>10533435
Fascism has at its core the ideal of fraternal bonding and brotherly camaraderie. Since it is a revolutionary movement and thus is usually heavily male, there can be some resorting to it out of desperation as well.

Fascism also recognizes the differences between the sexes. It perhaps even romanticizes man's role as the leader, revolutionary, intellectual, and all around superior being to females.

>>10530478
>homosex fascist best selling jap author
Being 3 out of 5 ain't too bad.

>>10533313
>>10533300

>>10533435
Communists accused Fascists of being homosexual to discredit them, even though Fascists sent faggots to death camps. Things got weird in the 1960s when Communists themselves came out as homosexuals. Reds still accuse Fascists of homosexuality because of an atavistic tic.

>>10531127
your existence doesn't trigger anyone but your parents

>>10531331
stop falseflagging as /r/asianmasculinity pls

>>10533976
at their core communists are brutish peasants and workers who have a natural aversion to homosexuality as absurd excess and would bludgeon them to death with wrenches and lead pipes if given the chance. fascists at their core are wannabe aristocrats who practically worship at the altar of absurd excess are so self-worshiping that homosexuality becomes inevitable.

>>10531331

t. resentful minority

>>10534850
There are no Communists except academics and students and Hollywood people.

>>10534819
>incredible btfo burn
Nice work mate.

it doesnt matter all hope for mishima's japan died in the late 90s anyway might as well rot and die

>>10534850
>at their core communists are brutish peasants and workers
wat

>November 25, 1970
>be some rando in the JGSDF stationed at the HQ in Shinjuku
>suddenly some gay fascist and his boyfriends break into the base CO's office and tie him to a chair and start threatening him with a sword
>you and your buddies gather outside to see wtf is going on
>the novelist comes out and starts trying his best Mussolini act to get you to overthrow the government
>everybody starts booing him because lol
>he goes back inside and disembowl's himself, one of his boyfriends acting as the second takes multiple blows to lop off his head before the third finishes it properly, then disembowels himself and is finished by the third
>all while Col. Klinko-san is still tied to the chair and wondering if he's gonna end up added to the rapidly growing pile of heads
>WEEKEND LEAVE CANCELED

>>10538097
kek

guy was a genius but he was so fucked up in a particular way that I can't really get that much enjoyment out of reading him

>>10531126
>he thinks that's bad prose
shit taste confirmed

I've decided to read Mishima. Where do I start? Or is there 1 work of his that is particularly worthwhile?

If a knowledge anon could assist me here I would be most grateful.

>>10539420
Temple of the Golden Pavillion is the correct answer.

>>10539420
The Sea of Fertility books starting with Spring Snow, and Sun and Steel. His later stuff is best.

>>10539420
Confessions of a Mask is a good entry since it basically gives you a quick rundown on the guy's youth in novel-form. You can start almost anywhere though, just with what interests you.

>>10539420
death in midsummer & other stories (at least for the eponym and patriotism), or golden pavillion.

>>10530478
daily remember

>>10531313
>beign this defensive about faggot Mishima
fuck yourself

>>10531334
>homosexuality is a western concept and as identity inapplicable to the japanese
sure bro

>>10541909
LMAO

>>10531443
denying evidence is also bad
>write about faggots
>Take faggy photos
>hang up with a bunch of other men
>not a faggot
come the fuck on

>>10530478
>a man must despise himself before others can despise him

I know that this has to do with pride, and not showing faults to others, but what EXACTLY does this mean? How would a nation ravage itself, and why would that be good?

>>10543141
To me the obvious meaning would be "Japan wouldn't be getting shit on so hard if you cocksuckers didn't act like trash to begin with", it's just another version of "You have to respect yourself before other people will respect you" but I need more context t.b.h. who the fuck knows what these japs are on about.

Japan ravaged itself by being [everything Mishima doesn't like]. I think.

>>10539420
Spring Snow was my first and I loved it. Sailor Who Fell From Grace With the Sea is shorter though and really good.

This reminds me of when I searched for gay nazi porn and the comment section was an argument about whether or not fascism is compatible with homosexuality and an argument about how inclusive to gays the Nazis were

>>10531400
>bet you're the type who interprets every love letter written between male friends in the Victorian era as evidence of a "homosexual relationship."
KEK thanks for the laugh.
How can you become so spooked that you need to label your homoerotic pulsions as "gay," and to reject them as deviancy in order to maintain your sense of self, defined around sailant socially defined and monolithic masculine features?
Sad!

>>10532990
This, so much this.

>>10543141
>Japan will disappear, and in its stead, an impersonal, empty, neutral, intermediate, opulent, shrewd, economic giant will be left standing in a corner of the far East - from a piece called "Underlined promises"

Pretty obvious here Mishima seen Japan as surrendering it's sovereignty and spirit for economic success within global capitalism, hikkimori and an unsustainable future

>>10542387
Yeah the English script and "international" (read:originating from N.America) colours really lends itself to the idea this is an indigenous movement

>>10543725
well that's pretty obvious - the nazis had the same basic concept of the family as the ancient greeks and other similar cultures. the male goes out and enjoys warfare or other exclusively male pursuits in the company of other men and the woman is a household servant that needs to be periodically impregnated. to not have and fuck a wife would deprive the nation of the next generation of warriors and is therefore unacceptable, but the extreme separation of the sexes makes emotional relationships with women highly unlikely, forcing men to search for a substitute. so nazism is incompatible with "full-time" homosexuality but extremely conductive to pederasty.

>>10531091
>"why do liberals insist on calling everyone they...admire a homosexual fascist?"
last i checked, milo yap was universally hated

>>10539418
That's a run-on sentence.

>>10534819

>>10544658
Male Fantasies by Klaus Theweleit is an interesting (if insulting to its topic and often humour worthy) psychoanalysis of male relationships within fascism

>>10542387
Those are literally 90% gaijin.

>>10544706
>muh run ons

did you learn that in class today sweetie?

>>10531389
>Ian Flemming was
An eternal anglo who contributed nothing.

>curious about this guy
>read summary of Golden Pavilion

Holy shit how can anyone actually make it through this wank

>>10544723
Someone who's read Theweleit, nice. I read the German original, I'd be curious how this book that's heavy on specifics of the German language, if you know what I mean, translates into English

>>10530478
Yea well I'm not a squinty eye Jap. So you got me there.

>>10544625
Nice goalpost moving.