/lit/ - Literature

>>10513735
Reality

Serious answer: The Moon is a Harsh Mistress by Heinlein goes out of its way to illustrate how an ideal libertarian-leaning state can be formed, and in the process demonstrates how unrealistic such a state would be. It also admits to the temporary period of such a state.
It's also just a good work of genrefic if that's your thing.

>>10513867
>sf can be said to be just a long-winded conversation with Heinlein

I like Heini a lot but some of his views are kinda stupid. That being said, MiaHM is a great book.

>>10513735
Assuming you mean libertarian in the American sense.

>>10513867
Havent read MiaHM but Heinlein always sounds like he's mad at himself for being either too left libertarian or too right libertarian.

Leviathan

>>10513945
Any man of culture needs to accept his own contradictions and learn how to live with them.

>>10513735
>implying it isn't the best political view to have outside of none at all

>>10513740
fpbp
i came here to say 'look out the window'

>>10513740
>>10513962
The fuck does that even mean?

>>10513970
they are being smug and saying that all you have to do to see that libertarianism is wrong is to just take in reality instead of the fiction of libertarian theory. that type of smug response is the worst

>>10513976
sorry, rothtard

>>10513982
I wasn't defending libertarianism I'm just against smug quips in place of actually saying why its wrong

>>10513988
When a premise is ludicrous enough its the only appropriate response

>>10513992
oh look another smug quip

Who /minarchist/ here?

>>10513735
Nick Land = only honest libertarian. fuck off with your pastoral neo-jeffersonian fantasies, worn and tired already in the early days of the American Republic. Either you are for full technocapital meltdown or you are fro nothing at all.

>>10513999
Me but not quite. More like a mud between it and some kind of local federation stuff.

>>10514021
I'm really more like a classical liberal, but it implies something a bit too soft for someone like me who is extremely skeptical of government power and centralized decision-making.

>>10513997
Dude prove to me right now without doubt, with ontological certainty, that the world is not flat

>>10513999
>haha dude, like the government should just commit itself to being small!
good luck with that.

>>10513988
for how much libertardians obsess over muh echonawmiks you'd think they might actually want to run the game theory

>>10514057
In a democracy, if everyone believed that the government should remain small, it would. It would also help if there were constitutional limitations.

>>10514077
>if everyone
wouldn't it be nice, unity of purpose?

>It would also help if there were constitutional limitations.
such as? 'mixed government' belongs in the dustbin of the eighteenth century.

>>10514077
If everyone had the same beliefs there would be no need for government.

>>10514083
>wouldn't it be nice, unity of purpose?

It's not as silly as it sounds. There are things which virtually everyone believes. In America, everyone exists within a roughly liberal worldview.

>such as? 'mixed government' belongs in the dustbin of the eighteenth century.

What do you suggest in instead?

>>10514096
That's hardly true and not even what I suggested.

>>10513735
shouldn't you know if youre already against it?

>>10513735
> Libertarian
>yellow and black
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>10514102
He probably suggests something authoritarian.

>>10513926
Reading this now. So far it's just a lazy, moralizing polemic.

>>10514102
>In America, everyone exists as a consumerist drone
ftfy

>>10514408
>muh consumerism

I remember being 14.

>>10514006
and Thiel also.

>>10513735
Defending capitalism from a liberal perspective is incredibly naive, as the current technical means of control and communication go beyond the subject, decomposing it into its monetisable components. 'Libertarians' are deluded, they think they still live in the 18th century and people can be independent farmers/artisans. The global chains of production are far to automated and desagregated, it ain't gonna happen. Our world is full capitalist, the logical conclusion to the liberal ideals of the enlightenment. There is no going back.

>>10513735
>ITT: the eternal comedy of liberalism; authoritative non-authoritarianism

>>10514516
>defining control so widely (or refusing to define it) that it applies to everything

Thank you Marxism and post-structuralism

>I would like to pay you money for this good/service
>no problem, here you go!

REEEEEEEEEE BUT MUH MARX

I hate /lit/ sometimes.

>>10514006
whats this book about

>>10514406
>lazy, moralizing polemic

What did you expect? The subtitle is 'The Moral Limits of Markets'. If it seems lazy it's because he's trying to reach a wide audience.

>>10513988
That's all you really need to say about the subject though. Libertarians are delusional and far removed from reality. They follow a political ideology that would never ever work in practice. And expecting it to work is so insane that smug quips are acceptable.

>>10514655
you're just repeating what >>10513992 said but in a few more words

>>10514624
For some, the thought that people should buy what they want is horrible.

>reality has a liberal bias

>>10513735
Atlas Shrugged obviously

>>10514767

>>10514653
It's assigned reading in my political science class, so I hoped it would have at least some substance. We're three chapters in and I've only seen one ethical/moral argument that doesn't rest heavily on the presupposition that inequality is bad (and easy/possible to fix). It goes as follows:
>putting something on the market turns it into a commodity
>people look at things-as-commodities differently from things-as-such
>sometimes, it's better for the individual to view a thing on its own terms (Sandel uses the examples of children and art)
>therefore, putting everything on the market will be detrimental for everyone, because they won't be able to take things on their own terms when that would be beneficial

>>10514772
its pro-libertarian tho

>Libertarian is equivalent to Ancap

>>10514077
>In a democracy, if everyone believed that the government should remain small, it would
Unless of course, you managed to develop a political class (see: all of them)

>>10515342
Ancaps at least take the bullshit to its logical conclusion

>>10514006
this.

>>10514498
tell me about Thiel.

>>10514648
humanity is being exterminated by vampires from the 47th dimension who haunt (i mean unironically like in the traditional ghostly sense) the halls of the stock exchange and the white house and take physical form in pass-the-buck-ism and google ads. we are buying our future right now and death will be delivered by amazon prime helicopters.

>>10515426
>humanity is being exterminated by vampires from the 47th dimension who haunt (i mean unironically like in the traditional ghostly sense) the halls of the stock exchange and the white house and take physical form in pass-the-buck-ism and google ads. we are buying our future right now and death will be delivered by amazon prime helicopters.
drugs are weird

>>10514701
libertarians aren't really that different from managerial liberals and sjws. Everyone gets what they want, and we have an industrial structure of control and communication designed to ensure they want the right things.

>>10515394
Deontological libertarianism (which is for brainlets)

There's still consequentialist libertarianism

>>10513958
This

>>10513958
>>10517048
>When you're so deep in the ideology you imagine yourself free from it

>>10518265
>ideologue
>bitching about ideologues

>>10517048
someone make a "virgin eliot rodger vs the chad ted kaczynski" meme

>>10518265
commies in a nutshell

>>10513735
"No Law for the Lions and Many Laws for the Oxen is Liberty" by Jack Graham basically refutes the entire ideology in about 30 pages. Found in pic related, along with some weirder stuff

>>10518581
>>10518594
Nobody is free from ideology, that's the fucking point you mongs. If you seriously believe you are it's just because you've accepted your ideology as unquestionable truth

The Shock Doctrine - Naomi Klein

>>10518726
got a download/pdf/torrent?

>>10513740
Explain Switzerland.

>>10514701
What should people do to get what they want? Steal it? Make their own? Automatically get it for free because it is their right? Honestly, being horrified about buying things is something that only the most high-class pampered kids would do.Or someone like Marx who had his life funded by friend's dad's factory.

>>10514573
tbhh I'm begining to think libertarians are just spergs who are to mired in their blind acceptance of capitalist reason, they literally can't see the tremendous cultural and social decay that's out there, they regard Google and other such companies, the managers of capitalism, as benevolent meritocratic priesthood that 'gives people what they want'. IMO this is the ultimate cuck mentality, the empty husk that allows the technical state apparatus to think for him because otherwise they wouldn't be le rational!!

>>10519015
Switzerland isn't libertarian you amerifat

>>10519170
>highest economic competitiveness in the world
>2nd highest in the world liberty index
>federation composed of sovereign cantons ("states")
>absolutely neutral state, didn't get involved in world wars
>not libertarian
What is it then?

>>10519031
They should purchase it.

>>10518726
libertarianism is not altright

>>10519211
>federation composed of sovereign cantons ("states")
This is fundamentally non-Libertarian

>>10514006
>>10515438
In other words
>the Right finally finds post-modernism

>>10519882
not really

>>10515394
Ancaps are literal minded neoKantians, Austrian economics was an attempt to apply neoKantian principles to economics, it is to economics what Kelsen's theory of positive right is to the law. America has always served as haven to cranks and sectarians from all over the world, from the Fourierists, to the amish, the latter day saints, the snake handlers, the hippie communes, and those Sillicon Valley narcissists at Burning Man. To non-Americans, the Neokantian bowtie cultists are merely a neat anthropological phenomenon, not to be taken seriously. Though, there is a Mises inspired university in Guatemala, and plenty of shill activity in the Baltics.

>>10515426
>Qwernomic subcultures result from the legacy of the typewriter and its computational simulation, based upon the shift-locked code systems implicitly produced by the Sholes or Universal (‘Qwerty’) Keyboard. Sketching the emergence and diffusion of the ‘secret/secretarial’ qwernomic subculture within global technocapitalism isolates a field of diagonal communication between anthropomorphic signs and the molecular traffic signals of the mutating ‘machinic unconscious,’ outlining an antipolitical semiotic pragmatism and Godless qabbalism consistent with what CCRU calls ‘coincidence engineering’
Is it all this bad?

>>10513740
>>10513962
Fucking epic win!

>rethugliKKKan
>ayncrap
>lolburtardian
>MAGA chud
>gubmit
>corn cob/self own/etc.
Is this the ultimate refutation of 100s of years of economic canon?

>>10518858
http://gen.lib.rus.ec/

>>10518726
>Neoreaction a Basilisk is a savage journey into the black heart of our present eschaton. We're all going to die, and probably horribly. But at least we can laugh at how completely ridiculous it is to be killed by a bunch of frog-worshiping manchildren.

doesnt look like a serious book

>>10519211
do you even know what libertarianism is?

>>10513735
There is literally nothing wrong with being a Libertarian.

>>10520083
Wait, is the reddit shit and calling for Steve Jobs to be king a sort of Pre-post-irony, or were they being serious?

>>10520112
Don't worry boys I'll take care of this

>>10519910
you like hearing yourself talk, dont you?

>>10520083
>But at least we can laugh at how completely ridiculous it is to be killed by a bunch of frog-worshiping manchildren.
The Holocaust isn't ridiculous, damn antisemites.

>>10519031
>being horrified about buying things is something that only the most high-class pampered kids would do.Or someone like Marx who had his life funded by friend's dad's factory.
So the upper class that pays wages is composed of those who balk at purchasing things. Marx was patronized to work (write) and was also a journalist.

>>10520123
Why anon.

>>10520130
>patronized

I dont think youre using that word correctly. he was legit a moocher and hypocrite which is fine, plato and neitzche both led contrary lives to their philosophy but at least they left something of value. marxism is such a useless concept in the postmodern world. he was neither a historian nor a sociologist nor a statistician, but he acted like he was all three. considering the much larger availability of historical knowledge that we have compared to what he had, he was fucking wrong. about everything. his predictions about how communism would enter the world were wrong. the world is far more complicated than the oppressor/oppressed paradigm. countries that industrialized fast in the 20th century never became communist and the more industrialization a country has the less communist it becomes (see china). not to mention that the only countries that can even moderately sustain socialism are typically post-imperialist like western european states, and can offer larger social programs because they are inherently non-communist. no real economist considers marx to be relevant, communism only works if every country is communist. since most countries in the world are not communist and rely on competition over resources and products to keep the global economy running, communist countries have to open way for private or semi-private business so that they can enjoy trade and not be a third world shit hole (see north korea). theres a reason why marx is thought in liberal arts schools and not in business and economics schools. grow up.

>>10519911
Holy fuck this is the DEFINITION of obscurantism.

>>10519169
>libertarian like google
Hey everyone, get a load of this absolute fucking retard

>>10520083
>>10518726
It's definitely silly (as is Nagle's le normie book, and, inevitably, any crusty, sclerotic critic or author's take on or attempt to disseminate the """alt right"""), and, from what I recall, none of the essays have anything particularly prescient to say or "refute" anything tb h. The one on NRx is a flailing, seething polemic, at least two of three of the targeted authors and bloggers having much more interesting things to say (the non-interesting one isn't even NRx, and was included, I suppose, to allow the completely-not-obsessed Sandifer to allow himself to allocate more time to owning the libertarian etc) than Sandifer's smug, self-assured old-guard-leftist ironybro dismissals and talking-downs. It's the long-form, schizoid shit-screed of the bugman class normally fortunately confined to 280 characters; instead, we get an entire book to hear about the manbabies and dudebros and gameragte pissbabies and chuds et al. At least Nagle, in her contrived desperate "analysis", attempts to string together a coherent chronology of events concerning her topic. She demonstrates an earnestly-trying but shallow understanding of the causations and reactions that eventually synthesize and make things a particular way online. Sandifer goes on tangents about Delueze, the orthodox cultural-critique by-the-numbers spiels and condemnations that, perhaps, during the 70s, seemed radical and worthy of patience. His understanding of and interaction with the subjects of his diatribes go only as far as extremely not-mad "curiosity" and the usual goonybeard/sarah nyberg/zeo quinn-sanctioned Owns, that being neckbeard fat manbaby and so on. Similarly, his understanding of the (albeit, admittedly, flawed- not to suggest that the neoclassical canon of economics isn't similarly pro-capitalism, and that out of every heterodox school marxism isn't the most silly or worn) Austrian school, if even present, is utilized less to criticize and analyze significant economic observations and propositions, as, say, Menger or Mises had done with their economics educations, and more to "compare/contrast" with marxism for some reason, haul out the same vapid, tired criticisms bleeding out from the same axiomatic (ironic!) attack points and areas of contention leftists "find" (read: hear from another person, because they haven't read the Austrians, and nor has the person they heard it from) with the Austrians, etc. The goobergate and Trump essays are nigh-contentless, the same pitiful hysteria (now with more WORDS WORDS WORDS, designed to obfuscate the ultimate lack of real poignancy) you'll hear from the online left about Trump and GG until the end of time. The essays, together, are disjointed, unsatisfying, and ostensibly leave you with a frightening image of the incomprehensible contradictory philosophical miscarriage to come, that can only be fought going forward by punching a fucking nazi le epic style. That's the intended effect, anyways.

Don't read it.

>>10520112

>>10520371
>complains about "WORDS WORDS WORDS"
>posts a wall of text that could stop Mongol archers

>>10520371
I notice it was trash by seeing the reviews, the retarded way he markets his own book, and downloading it and reading some parts

>>10520369
libertarians don't understand modern capitalism, which is about people management rather than the old fashioned production of commodities at a factory, but about producing a whole social reality. Muh SJW is actually a logical extension of the basic capitalist principle of universal exchangeability. Humans are universally exchangable in relation to capital. If you want to understand Google, read up on wartime think tanks like the RAND corporation, the development of bureaucracy since the 50s , Stewart's Brand whole earth catalog, that served as a meeting point for Hippies and the military industrial complex. Post 60s American culture represents an uneasy compromise between the be yourself aspirations of the counterculture, and the military-industrial-consumer machinery.


https://monoskop.org/images/0/09/Brand_Stewart_Whole_Earth_Catalog_Fall_1968.pdf

>>10520371
didnt read.
>>10520636
youre far off from the gulag reservation, comrade.

>>10520636
>which is about people management rather than the old fashioned production of commodities at a factory, but about producing a whole social reality.
Libertarians never supposed otherwise. Stopped there.

>>10518265
That's what zizek is though.

>>10520721
>didnt read.
I bet you don't

>>10513735
the conservative mind - russell kirk
orthodoxy - gk chesterton
why liberalism failed - patrick deneen

>>10514123
underrated post

>>10520092
Do you? That anon made several reasonable points. Maybe you're the one who in confused as to what libertarianism really is.

I think I know why that is.
You, like many others in this thread including OP, have a preconceived idea of what libertarianism is. You believe without really knowing why, that it must be inherently "bad" for whatever reason. Most likely, the left media you consume conditioned you to think so.

The same can be said for Americans regarding socialism during the Reagan era -- everyone hated it without knowing what it was. That's you right now. That's OP right now.

Libertarianism isn't bad. It's foundation lies in freedom, ethics, community, and equality. It's nature is inherently utilitarian, and therefore productive and efficient.

An accurate representation of TRUE libertarianism can be seen in most of the founding fathers of America, namely Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington. A working, modern representation would be Switzerland, like anon said before you.

Talking to them.
It's gotten to the point that I like commies better than lolbergs, because at least commies tend to have read things other than Locke and Hoppe.

>>10520112
ok

>>10513735
Murray Bookchin is the only good libertarian

>>10520943
Ya. Like Guardians of Gahool.

I don't care if it is an impractical fantasy, you would have to be a major kike to disagree with the ideals its based on.

>>10520971
It -is- Jewish, you retard

free market (inside your own borders) = good
legalizing immoral behavior (abortions, contraception, divorce, bigamy, homosexuality) = bad
allowing free immigration = bad

>>10520896
didnt know that last one, will check out
>>10520931
>Libertarianism isn't bad. It's foundation lies in freedom, ethics, community, and equality
literal fake knews on the equality, community part, and btw by that logic one might say
>socialism isn't bad. It's foundation lies in freedom, ethics, community, and equality

>>10520997
Libertarians are egalitarians though. Which is a strike against them.

>>10520997
Here's a short article about the book.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/01/the-end-of-liberalism/

>>10520991
>immoral behavior
>contraception, divorce, homosexuality
WEW
E
W

>>10520997
>equal opportunity
>equal rights of man
>strong culture and social unity (ie community)
How are these things non libertarian?

>socialism
I'm not accusing socialism of anything. There are inherently socialistic aspects of society I very much appreciate. Public libraries are free, ethical, equal, and support community. Yes, moving on.

>>10521032
>strong culture and social unity (ie community)
Not efficient enough and probably racist

>>10521027
#triggered

>>10521014
danke
>>10521032
equal oppurtunity is a meme, equal rights is far too little to qualify it as "egalitarian", and "strong culture and social unity" has literally nothing to do with libertarianism, its independent of it

>socialism
trash

>>10521038
>hashtags

>>10513740

>>10521043
Americans are a nation of narcissists who have lost the capacity to distinguish between their own selves and the outside world. It's hard to form a coherent sense of self under current conditions. That's what consumer capitalism does to people. A meaningless onslaught of images meant to ensnare you in patterns of engagement- now social algorithm-optimised. Read the Google-D'Amore lawsuit papers, a fascinating document of how modern bureaucracies and technology drive people insane.

The Bible

>>10521143
This desu. Never read the papers, what're they about?

>>10521157
>oh yeah I agree for sure
>but can you tell me what I am agreeing with heh heh durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

>>10520083
Just read George Hawley. He's a poli-sci prof trying to provide an objective account, not a partisan hack.

>>10521134
Hahaha I love this hilarious comic, thanks for putting it on my feed !! That's a share and a favorite ;)

XOXOXO Sharron

>>10521194
which book

>>10521143
>Americans are
stopped here tbhfam

>>10521563
>Americans
stopped here

>>10520112
epic post

>>10518581
Ideology - not "ideologues."

>>10519882
It is fundamentally libertarian. See below.
>>10520997
>literal fake knews on the equality, community part
Libertarianism preaches local communities and local power as opposed to no communities. We aren't talking about anarchism here.
Switzerland in its entirety is 41277 km2. There are 26 cantons, which makes each one of them 1587 km2 on average. The city state of Singapore is 720 km2. New York City alone is 1213 km2 (the city, not the metropolitan area of 34490 km2). Plus, unlike big cities, Switzerland is full of uninhabitable mountains, the population density in each canton is exponentially lower than that of big cities and each local village counts more than a neighborhood from the places I listed. These numbers are just to put things into perspective. Cantons are local communities.

>>10513948
this ťbh

>>10520991
I don't think you understand what a free market means, anon
It always pains me to see burger "traditionalists" trying to reconcile their world view with capitalism

>>10520943
>Commies read.

>>10520991
>>10522625
Real libertarian here.
Free market (inside your own borders) = meh
Free market (regardless of borders) = good
Legalizing "immoral" behavior (contraception, divorce, bigamy, homosexuality) = good
Legalizing immoral behavior (murder, abortions, theft) = bad
Allowing free immigration = good
Free money to immigrants = bad

>>10520112
no

>>10513735
the road to wigan pier

>>10522670
Commies do read. I grant you that much of what they read is subversive Jewish garbage, but I guarantee you that a communist can accurately articulate the worldview of a lolbertarian, whereas the opposite is untrue.
That doesn't mean that they're right. But you're confusing liberal cat ladies with commies.

>>10520112
fuck

America was a mistake

>>10523986
>you must EITHER like the dumb commie Jew who ripped off superior philosophers and is literally only good for his analysis of capitalism
>OR the greedy capitalist Jews who jerked their own nihilism and selfishness off and backported a philosophy that should have died in the 1800s to the late twentieth century
hmmmm

>>10524084
Hmm something something siding with jews, knife in the back

>>10520636
Google is "SJW" because Obama's DOJ sued them and many other tech companies for not having enough blacks and women. When you see positions like "Vice Officer of Diversity" at a company, it's not because they particularly care about the values of racial quotas, but because it's a legal tool to fend off discrimination lawsuits. Globalist companies never engaged in that bullshit until the Clinton era really kicked it off (though it technically started under the Nixon admin)

>>10524209
>it's duh gubberment's fault that a company full of Jews, Indians and Californians is leftist

>>10524265
It literally is. The government forces them and others to adopt cultural Marxist measures.

Capitalism is condemned! Blamed
!

America is the given example!
Bailouts, corporate personhood, corporate welfare, federal reserve. Market regulation, lobbying, where is the free market?

None of these are capitalist! End the memes!

>>10524306
Shall we say, socialism is the bane of Venezuela, and not corruption?

Shall we say, capitalism has hindered the United States, as though it were practiced purely?

>>10524311
Nay!

American healthcare is not the free market! American corporate healthcare is a regulated system, stinking with the corruption of the elite!

Monopolies are not given life by the consumer, but held up by the coercions of the false government! Shall the free market be blamed for these, as though it were free?

>>10524270
Why do you think that Google gives a fuck about diversity laws when it has more money and resources than most states? Oh no, the feds might fine them a couple million dollars for not having enough negroes and pushing enough poz. Big deal, Eric Schmidt eats a couple million dollars for breakfast.
They do it because that's what they want, because it atomizes the workers/serfs and makes them easier to control. Don't delude yourself that capitalism isn't, in the end, as Jewish as the communism you hate.

>>10515315
>its pro-libertarian tho
nothing makes you realise how shit an idea is quite like actually reading it in its entirety from the authors themselves

>>10524334
You know that at a certain point the difference between power of violence and power of finance becomes irrelevant, right? The public/private distinction isn't a real thing and the mythical totally free market of ancap lore never existed. It's as real as leftcom fantasies.

>>10524349
More than a couple million, and they get triple-fucked because they face pressure from both California and San Francisco as well. I don't deny that many Silicon Valley techies naturally have some left-wing leanings and that they will of course bias the ruling of their company, but it's only reached a fever-pitch recently. If what you're saying is accurate, we should have been awash in leftist politics during the Gilded Era, when the opposite was of course true.

>>10524376
Name an example where power of finance was used to kill large numbers of people without the power of violence/government.

>>10524381
>If what you're saying is accurate, we should have been awash in leftist politics during the Gilded Era, when the opposite was of course true.
Jews were not as prevalent in the Gilded Age, and the synthesis of capitalist economics and communist social theory that is neoliberalism hadn't come into being.

Google is the way it is because its creators, administrators, and backers want it to be that way. Not because of ebul gubbermint intervention.

>>10524401
Anon, you're misunderstanding me. What I'm saying is that money-politics is our current system and that the way things are now is actually way more compatible with ancap autism than fascism or communism. If you're rich enough, you can just, like, buy the state off.

How is it that you can believe in McPolice being a good idea, but not in Google having its fingers in the state?

>>10520112
What an epic meme-eroni

>>10524376
A totally free market is indeed as mythical as totally free humans, living peacefully.

In this mythic system, where governments aren't corrupted, they have the authority to punish righteously. Instead, they are evildoers; the stench of the real world does not negate the fairness of libertarian economics.

Everyone who crushes the idea of beneficial free markets under heel might as well be saying, "WE HAVE FAITH IN GOVERNMENT"

>>10524417
Libertarians are not proponents of lobbying.

>>10524456
But it doesn't matter what you're a proponent of. It matters what is.
And in the real world, Google is basically part of the state, as megacorporations would be in any libertarian system that did not absolutely abolish the state- in which case it would be more accurate to speak of Google State™.

>>10524417
Sure, current America is closer to libertarian than it is to communist. That doesn't make it libertarian. We haven't resembled a libertarian nation since the time of FDR, even though we've gradually (but slowly and with many compromises) moved towards a more neoliberal direction.

I don't believe in McPolice, nor do many libertarians. We tend to believe that the government does have a role in upholding some essential laws, largely those involved in matters of property and contracts. McPolice is basically just a way of bribing the government; may as well call a socialistic bureaucratic mess like India "libertarian"

>>10524476
In a libertarian system, the governments would not collude with the big businesses so as to bastardize the freedom of their market. Ideally, the state is there to police corporations; so they don't dump sewage in rivers, so they don't murder their competitors. Libertarianism is not corporatocracy.

McGovernment TM is a meme.

All the corporate collusions in America are blamed on Capitalism, although capitalism is predicated on the existence of the free market. These blames find the shoulders of Libertarians, as though America were already libertarian. Because Libertarians suppose the free market is better, they are nonsensically blamed.

>>10524529
>Ideally, the state is there to police corporations; so they don't dump sewage in rivers, so they don't murder their competitors.
That's basically fascism 2bh. Read your own philosophy.

>>10524532
>Outlawing murder is fascism

America recently decided to regulate ISPs. Now there is very little competition because entire regions belong to Telecast or Comcast. This is the product of lobbying, bribery. Without competition, Americans receive bad internet for the highest price. Only corruption is to be blamed. This is not capitalist practice.

>>10524547
It's just a private dispute between two private individuals in the service of two private companies, where does the state need to be involved? :^)
After all murder wouldn't happen in libertarianworld anyway because everyone would follow the NAP, so obviously one of them was treading on the other!

>>10524574
Continued:

Why isn't capitalism to be blamed? Because capitalism does advocate that markets be regulated by the force of government. If monopolies arise in the free market, they are earned; for a monolithic ISP to arise, they would have to provide the best service for the lowest price, making it impossible to compete. But American monopolies are not earned, only coerced; and people uneducated in economics condemn capitalism religiously.

>>10524577
You're mocking an asinine opinion, which you falsely attribute to me, ~*Libertarian*~.

>>10524574
>>10524581
Telecoms create contracts with local governments where the latter guarantees them a monopoly over a given amount of time. In part this is for practical reasons, since digging up public road all the time to lay new cable is obviously a public nuisance. At the same time, it's also because of corrupt local officials that receive kickbacks.

With the exception of monopolies over natural resources and property, all monopolies exist because a government enforces it.

>>10524585
I'm mocking the logical conclusion of libertarianism, which is anarcho-capitalism, which is a hopelessly repugnant and asinine "system." The fact that you try to mix in some shit from other ideologies in theory that would in fact be totally crushed by the efficiency-seeking drive of globalized capitalism doesn't make "thick libertarianism" or "minarchism" or any other anarchocapitalist-derived system any less worthless.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: At least the commies know what the fuck they're talking about.

>>10524607
Nope, the elimination of the state is not the logical conclusion of libertarianism.

>>10524607
>if I call it a "logical conclusion" no one will know I'm arguing against a strawman

>>10524618
It is. There is no logical reason that a libertarian should stop at a night-watchman state except that he knows advocating for child slavery and private courts will make him look like a ghoul.

>>10524607
Kowloon Walled City is arguably the closest thing to an an-cap society in modern history. I would have rather lived there than in most "logical conclusions" to communism (unless I was a member of the party elite, of course).

>>10524630
Go live there, then. Or go live in Somalia.

Read some G.K Chesterson if you're interested in a Catholic perspective on capitalism and how a third way, dubbed "distributism" fits with Catholic social teaching. Distributism is described as "Capitalism is god and the family mattered."

For a more right-wing analysis, choose any fascist book really. Oswald Mosley has several books on a new fascist economy and it's also discussed in the Codex Faschismo.

Both groups focus more so on capitalism rather than specifically libertarianism as a movement. But seeing as capitalism is the heart, soul, mind, and body of it there's not too much of a difference.

Really, if you want to get away from libertarianism, or really any ideology that supports atomized individuals instead of a holistic community, read any sort of ancient philosophy, particularly stoicism.

>>10524624
Behold, I am against child slavery and in favor of public courts, I speak the truth.

>>10524633
Pearls before swine, anon.

>>10524633

>capitalism is god

god damn, this is a bad typo on my part. Should be "capitalism IF god"

>>10524624
>there is no logical reason why a religious conservative would stop at laws prohibiting pornography from being shown on cable except that he knows advocating for a complete ban on all sex not for the purpose of procreation will make him look like a ghoul
>there is no logical reason why a social democrat would stop at a welfare state and moderate taxes except he knows confiscating all private land and distributing the nation's wealth equally between the people will make him look like a ghoul

>>10524632
Somalia was a Marxist state that went kaput and battled globalist intervention and radical Islam for a couple decades. Try again.

>>10524635
Yeah, because they're fucking terrible.
And yet there is no defense against either of them in libertarian thought except that certain goyish libertarians find them unpleasant and foolishly believe they would not come to pass.

>>10524641
And yet religious conservatives and social democrats work within the framework of a state. To a libertarian the state is always an enemy and an intrusion on the mystical perfection of the holy market.

>>10524644
Try again at what? I'm just mocking you and your brainlet-tier ideology.

>>10524633
I do want to get away from isms, because there are too many ideas lumped in with the one ideology.

I think capitalism might as well be called "money." I mean, if you introduce money to the society and leave them free capitalism is there. Capitalism fosters liberty, and freedom of opportunity, although there is no safety net for the people. I think UBI is a good idea, as is public healthcare. These ideas are not shared by all libertarians however.

>>10524647
>And yet religious conservatives and social democrats work within the framework of a state. To a libertarian the state is always an enemy and an intrusion on the mystical perfection of the holy market.
No it isn't. The state is considered a source of danger and the greatest cause of problems, perhaps, but that doesn't make it an inherent bad.
>>10524652
Try to strawman a nation that could actually be described as remotely an-cap, not a nation that is actually the logical conclusion of communism.

>>10524667
>The state is considered a source of danger and the greatest cause of problems, perhaps, but that doesn't make it an inherent bad.
>it's not the enemy, it just causes all the problems
????

>>10524662
>UBI (probably contingent upon doing -something- productive, right?)
>public health care
>keeping corporations from dumping waste in rivers
>not having slavery, McPolice, and other ancap memes
>strong local communities (if you're the same person as above)
>basically wants a market kept within acceptable, non-society-destroying bounds
Can I interest you in national socialism anon?

>>10524662

How do you reconcile your libertarian views with either UBI or public healthcare?

If you hold these things to be good, why consider yourself a libertarian at all?

>>10524686
>all X are Y, therefore all Y are X
This is your mind on normie-tier ideology memes

>>10524381
READ CHRISTOPHER LASCH. The spectacle and consumer capitalism produce a culture of narcissism, a world of atomised units that have trouble distinguishing the limits that separe their selves from the outside world. Google's managerial culture is rational management adapted to the post-ford era. Identity politics took off in the 10s thanks to hypermedia technologies- smartphones and web 2.0 that permitted the mass manipulation of neuroses.

http://thezeitgeistmovement.se/files/Lasch_Christopher_The_Culture_of_Narcissism.pdf
http://libgen.io/book/index.php?md5=DADC57F655EDAB79D8D97CEB2FEABB7D

Also watch this Adam Curtis blog, he may be with the BBC, but he's woke
>Everywhere on television today people hug and burst into tears. It happens in drama a lot - but it has completely taken over factual programmes too. It usually comes at the end when the characters finally realise that they should express their true feelings. And they do this by crying and hugging everyone in sight.

>It is part of something much wider in modern society - the belief that one should aim to be "authentic", and the way to do this, to become authentically yourself, is to learn to get in touch with your inner feelings and express them. If you button yourself up, have a stiff upper lip, and control your emotions then you are both inauthentic and somehow damaged as a human being.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/843165bf-1e69-3dec-873e-973fc8e604a5

>>10524697
It seems like a distinction without a difference to me.

>>10524686

>Can I interest you in national socialism anon?

now that's what i like to see

People get lost in abstract economics that only apply to theoretical people, rather than a specific nation. In that way, libertarianism can be equated to democracy as things that people wrongly assume will just work with any nation regardless of what that nation is used to or has preferred before.

>>10524704
All pugs are dogs. Not all dogs are pugs.
'
All the worst atrocities can be traced to government action. Not all government actions are the worst atrocities ever (nor even bad).

Go back to >>>/b/ you fucking brainlet

>>10524711
But if all bad things ever have come from government action, how then is government not bad?
Surely the ability of the state to punish polluters and keep the destitute from starving in the streets isn't outweighed by all those atrocities, right anon?

>>10524698

This seems to touch on the notion perpetuated by libertarians of homo-economicus, the idea that man will, without fail, always make the right economic decisions. The tools with which a company hoping to sell a product are arguably greater than the tools that a consumer uses to protect themself.

>>10524638
kek

>>10524717
Because some degree of government is a good and necessary thing. The free market can't solve the tragedy of the commons, for example. You can have government perform essential roles while limiting its ability to carry out destructive ones, as long as the population stays conscious of the issues at hand.

Going back to your original strawman of political bribery being a form of capitalism, I think it is perfectly possible to have a minimal state that counters pollution while maintaining strict laws against government officials receiving money from private individuals/corporations.

>>10524381
>we should have been awash in leftist politics during the Gilded Era

Actually, America, along with the rest of the industrialised world, was awash in leftist politics at that time(late 19th, early 20th century). A very different sort of leftist politics than those you might be familiar with, based on the urban industrial proletariat, a class which has long dwindled to almost nothing.Socialists and syndicalists saw the factory as a mechanism for political organisation, which drilled workers into an organised political mass. On the other hand, current process of production tend to atomise workers. Our politics cannot be but therapeutic: individuals lobby the establishment on their own, instead of joining forces to create a different sort of society.

1. Marx's Capital
2. Lenin's Imperialism
3. Lenin's State and Revolution

Lolberts have a retarded view of the state and pretty much everything else, they can't hold a candle to the superior Marxist critique of political economy.

>>10524734

>You can have government perform essential roles while limiting its ability to carry out destructive ones
How are you going to prevent feature creep?
>as long as the population stays conscious of the issues at hand.
What incentive do government officials and capitalist tycoons have to keep the population informed?
>I think it is perfectly possible to have a minimal state that counters pollution while maintaining strict laws against government officials receiving money from private individuals/corporations.
How long do you think that state would last?

You don't understand what capitalism is and you don't understand what a state is. Your calling me a brainlet is laughable.

>>10524740
>Lenin's Imperialism

literally propaganda for peasants

>>10524691
If efficiency means trimming the fat, then all the needy are merely fat to be trimmed, but I place more value on people. That comes from love, not from ideology. UBI and public healthcare are good to me, considering the effects of poverty.

Concerning libertarianism, the government should be limited in their scope. To protect the innocent, as they have been given the power, and to the enforce charitable practice, and not to meddle in the free market. Libertarianism places strong value on capitalist economics and liberty, but I am not against government welfare, and I don't believe taxation is theft.

>>10524739
True, I was biased in speaking from a contemporary viewpoint. In the early 1900s, it was considered leftist to suggest that workers have a right to quit their jobs without being subjected to aerial strikes. Today, contemporary libertarians and ancappers would consider that a violation of the NAP and side with those early socialists. That was also back when socialists were ardent supporters of gun rights and the militia.

>>10524740
>Lolberts have a retarded view of the state and pretty much everything else, they can't hold a candle to the superior Marxist critique of political economy.
Correct, but watch the lolbergs ITT sperg out over it because they can't separate the (usually fairly accurate) Marxist critiques from the (generally extremely terrible) Marxist solutions.

>>10524754
>How are you going to prevent feature creep?
Unfortunately I don't think it's really possible in the long run, but nothing lasts forever. Insert photo of patriotic Spurdo and the blood of tyrants watering the tree of liberty here.
>What incentive do government officials and capitalist tycoons have to keep the population informed?
Very little, I'll admit. I do support subsidized education for those that cannot afford it.
>How long do you think that state would last?
Potentially long. Switzerland has had a decentralized and relatively free government going for hundreds of years. As many problems as America has right now, our starting point and strongly-libertarian constitution has done a better job fighting government excess than many other nations have fared.

>>10524770
What value is there in criticism if no better solution can be offered?

>>10524770
>the (usually fairly accurate) Marxist critiques from the (generally extremely terrible) Marxist solutions.
I hate this dumb meme. Marxist critiques are almost always shit.

>>10524790
It's called fascism, anon. And there's quite a lot of value in mere dissection and analysis anyway, just so you can understand how the system works in a realistic way. If you hold to classical liberal orthodoxy then you can't even predict the second world war.

>>10524799
To be honest, the Communist Manifesto doesn't make sense. I feel like I would have to be brainwashed to some degree.

>>10524819
>The Communist Manifesto in any way represents contemporary Marxist analysis
>The Communist Manifesto is a summary of Marxian economics
>The Communist Manifesto is a timeless blueprint for revolutions instead of a propaganda pamphlet based on events in the mid-19th century

These are all obviously wrong ideas by people who never bother reading leftist theory.
As the other anon said, without fail it turns out that communists can portray the beliefs of libertarians, while the opposite is not true. In fact, they hilariously misrepresent even the very basics of our theory. Marxism is a historical analysis of socio-economic conditions, it is by its basic principles an evolving theory that considers new developments in capitalism, new class configurations, actual economic data from different parts of the world and how they interact in the global economy. The term "capitalism" has a very precise meaning for Marxist theory, whereas for liberals and lolberts it is an a-historical dealist category, which enables them to claim utter absurdities such as "it's not capitalism if governments are corrupt".

>>10524908
Well, it was written by a Marxist

>>10524780
For the last time, decentralized government does NOT mean libertarian

>>10524926
Decentralized governments inherently increase the power of local individuals by shortening the gap between them. They aren't synonyms, but they're fairly well-correlated.

>>10524740
>>10524908
lolbert is a fucking le epic own. that's an upvote.

>>10515426
Maybe Alex Jones is right and it's the end of the World pham, all out war against the illuminati nwo, the evil corporations and AI elite pedophiles. Hey it's the closest thing we got to an organic folk mythology.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NVsyMalJXo

Frankfurt School Occult Jew, Walter Benjamin had a few things to say on the end of the world. Yeah I know, it sounds like a /pol/ joke, but dude's fascinating. He was a marxist informed in both theology and the modernist avant garde who rejected the determinism of orthodox marxism, as well as the liberal-social democratic ideal of gradual progress. The end of the world is also a time for remembering things.
http://pages.ucsd.edu/~rfrank/class_web/ES-200A/Week%202/benjamin_ps.pdf

Hey OP (Comrade), fellow le communist pupper here. xD just me being random!! Lol anyways, just read these:
Principles of Economics, Menger
Human Action, Mises
Close Of His System, von Bohm-Bawerk

Just read these and you'll figure out how to own the LOLberTURDians le epic! Like a boss!

>>10524953
You know, I used to play Deus Ex and chuckle at the absurd collection of conspiracy theories that it portrays as controlling the world. But the plot of Deus Ex doesn't even come close to the crazy insanity that a modern right-winger can come up with, or the shit /pol/ believes in. At least that game had some genuine social critique hidden away in the texts.

>>10525006
fwiw Deus Ex was created with the intention of fitting in as many conspiracy theories as possible from all sides, and Warren Spector (main producer/designer) is actually a diehard neoliberal and Shill4Hill. Sheldon Pacotti, the writer, actually said that a lot of his inspiration in specific parts of dialogue came from listening to the local radio, which in the late 90s in Austin meant that Alex Jones probably is literally responsible for Deus Ex being what it is.

>>10525006
The double irony is, the plot of Deus Ex doesn't even come close to the real conspiracies which there are.

>>10525006
Alex Jones is a regular joe doing his best to describe the technocapitalist system and its effects on people.We've been living in the fucked sci-fi movie universe since the 50s.

>tfw grew up a consumer lab rat under a nuclear garrison state disguised as Jeffersonian yeoman farmer utopia, united in universal separation by tv and the automobile ( and later, the internet)

>(all SV tech companies have spooky deep state links)

>>10524991
>Austrian economics
>>>/x/

>>10520112
no curse for me thanks

>>10525006
<The tech companies are evil and don't give a fuck about humanity except as a raw material.

>Bezos, Zuckerberg, Thiel and Elon Musk, all neoliberal politicians, they aren't human, they are psychic Vampires, or what is the same, californian narcissists.

>There's no escaping neo-california.

>Google's name should be as that of the devil. AI and social media prolefeed are mind control, there's no other way to describe them.

>Capitalism systematically implements irrationality through the latest rational means.

>>10514043
not an argument

>>10525138
Yes, all of these developments are inherent and inevitable in the capitalist mode of production. They can be restrained for a short while, but they have a clear historical precedence.
What I don't get about conservatives and other right-wingers is that they seem to think that you can defy economic reality with culture, or religion, or ethnic purity or whatever it is your chosen right-wing philosophy advocates for.
As if corporations wouldn't exist if we had a lot of Christianity, as if social reality wouldn't be reproduced through the logic of profit accumulation and market exchange. Traditional culture itself is only valuable as long as it can be marketed.
You can consider communists utopian all you like, but they have legitimately diagnosed the only real path towards eliminating the mode of production that spawns these phenomena. Thinking of this as a cultural issue is extremely naive and ignorant.

>>10525061
>Historical determinism (diamat), unfalsifiable derivations about the future from non-rigorous historical analysis
>Outdated theories of value and economic exchange, "neoclassicism is a giant conspiracy and economists are frauds that the bougies keep around to extoll the virtues of capitalism!"
>Outdated psychosexual/Freudian pseudoscience employed in critiques, or, even worse, Deluezianism
>Intersectional theory, invisible oppression-particles; post-modern gibberish and "all biology is biotruths and essentialism" social-constructism
>appeals to spirituality, the market is *sniffle* "soulless" and "life-draining"
>Dialectical mumbo jumbo, the becoming of the magically better remoulded New Communist Man, vague societies without property or currency or value or scarcity and yet workable allocation of resources just on the horizon
>>>/x/

>>10525220
>If you disagree with the meme that is austrian economics that means you're a commie
>>>/lgbt/

>>10520371
This is a lot of words to say "I'm mad the dirtbag left exists and makes fun of me for being a huge nerd who talks about "the Cathedral" and "Mencius Moldbug" seriously."

>>10525228
Lol? Keynesianism or le pinochet bubble school, or the "economics is unknowable and we must rely on approximate behavioral theories and heuristics" meme? *sniffle* "e-economics turns man into a hedonistic animal and denies us our spirit and that's degenerate/mean :("?

>>10525236
Good thing I'm offered compelling incentives to repent, in the form of intellectual heavyweights such as the dril replies section and Cum Town. DSA Jacobin twitter dorks are really powerful and successful deterrents for steering away people interested in radical political theory beyond liberalism; and with successfully impeaching Trump and stopping the growth of the online right they're really making gains. wait

>>10525247
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_neoclassical_synthesis

>>10525281
Fuck off centrist

>>10524633
distributism is retarded

>>10525294
lol

>>10513735
Anyone who has ever held a job

>>10525275
>growth of the online right
Ooooh, spooky. They're so effective, what with all the politicians they're helping elect like... uh... shit, hold on now, I can think of one eventually. Trump? No, he had the old people on lock but lost the youth, and that's where all the NRx movement is since they're all teenagers. Uh, you got any victories for me?
>impeaching Trump
Why would that ever be an objective? He's useful. Pisses people off. Makes the Democrats look foolish for allying with the Republicans. Pushes people further left. Why would anyone want to replace him with Pence, bar maybe the fact that Pence would be more gun-shy on the use of nuclear weapons? He's nails on a chalkboard to conventional neoliberalism, a mockery of all their pomp and circumstance, and he can't be swept under the rug like a conventional Republican can.

>>10525355
Posting this quick successive reply to tell you how hilariously embarrassing this is only having skimmed over it for a few seconds

>>10524633
>distributism
Private property is distributed in a somewhat more equal manner, meanwhile a bourgois rat still owns the means of production, and can laugh all the way to the bank. Correct me if I'm wrong.

>>10525208
>le corporations xD

>>10525412
>can't even spell his own boogeyman class
The dumbest fascist can still say Jew, anon. I'm excited for the next walltext on why Marxism is actually worth caring about past literally describing the capitalist economy better than liberals.

>>10513735
No books
Just https://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/12/why-i-am-not-libertarian.html

>>10524764
>Today, contemporary libertarians and ancappers would consider that a violation of the NAP and side with those early socialists
contemporary libertarians would be in the planes and helicopters throwing bombs on the workers

>>10525355
>>10525369
There's a lot to unpack here.
>They're so effective
Never supposed such. The right is demonstratively, in observable, numerical increments (that is: social media traffic, clicks, etc) growing larger on the net. I'm not "arguing"- as if this conversation was an argument, and not a joke- on the basis of their effectiveness concerning organizing. The point here is that if more people are finding themselves on the right, less are affiliating with the left. The "neoliberal establishment" is wilting, and I'm not going to for a second entertain the a priori presuppositions that usually frame arguments with you types. You are not a third option in our "geohell"- or whatever- political sphere, and anything Nick Land's scribbled out in a DMT-imposed stupor is much more of a radical alternative than exciting demands from the extremely proletariat side like "free abortions". Cafe.com, in which Krang T Nelson etc writes in, is literally funded by some DNC-tied dude. The New Yorker mentions, unsolicited, Chapo and your cringeworthy "dirtbag left". You ARE neoliberalism, in its scurrying attempt to save itself from itself. The self-preservation machinery of statist prog modernity operates at peace with "real change" and the democratic process, and "real change" and the democratic process operates at peace with statist prog modernity. In effect, they are symbiotic; spectres, manifestations of population-organizing egregores whose vestiges interlope and feed among one another. Dismissive irony and cold, scripted political moralism are identical, post-rational semantic memes. One does not communicate an expose, nor an escape from, another. Both are the same dead-end, a brooklyn warehouse, solidarity, having at least won the culture war. Trump doesn't implicate any change, anywhere, and nothing is falling, tending towards its inevitable end stage after which we can sit around in a commune retweeting each other forever. The point is that NRx (which, proportionally, has far less teens then the online left- "self own milkshake corn cob" being more lax a prerequisite than Unqualified Reservations, and it just being egregiously fucking obvious) either looks beyond or behind modernity in a significant way, at the very least, saving us from this draining hell, or at fucking least trying. If we're apparently teens, then so be it- such surpasses suprisingly-adults, bearded chubby men who logged on kids with their parents' credit cards, and got spat out from the adapted, ever more reconciliation-elusive new language of politics with a FYAD probation and an age above 25. You mock what you perceive to be a bubble, a pathetic outburst from kekistani /pol/tard etcs with no real political success, and yet sit within your own, content with the insecurity and double-faced snark that prevents you from approaching its edges, beyond which hierarchy is demanded and people blog with weird pseudonyms. You concern yourself with political victories. Get fucked.

>>10525621
shut the fuck up

>>10525636
Read a book.

>>10524698
The afterword to Culture of Narcissism explains the theme of Neon Genesis Evangelion. He goes into Freudian theories, gnosticism, and the traditional religious critique of gnosticism, which he remarks is similar to Freud's own critique of gnosticism. The afterword was written in 1991, so there's a nonzero, however unlikely, chance Anno read it before writing the series (idk if Anno reads English or if there's a Japanese translation). Regardless, Anno surely read a book or two about Anno that covered the same topics.

This is indisputable proof that Lasch was the greatest American intellectual of the 20th century.

>>10525621
Not them but.
>Never supposed such. The right is demonstratively, in observable, numerical increments (that is: social media traffic, clicks, etc) growing larger on the net.
It had a boom with the financial crisis and the internet going crazy about the sjws, but it's already declining.
>The "neoliberal establishment" is wilting
I don't see how desu. Merkel got elected, Macron got elected. The only country that could oppose them in the EU council (Britain) willingly gave away their decision power. Italy, considering the fact that they always ally with France, will likely become more neoliberal as well.

>>10525641
if reading is what makes on of whatever you are I'll pass, thanks

>>10525646
I mean "Anno read a book about Freud". Anno reading about Anno would be narcissistic

>>10513735
Read SIEGE by James Mason. read SIEGE, Faggot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XhfnJytYFg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo64nlKdA0k
I like that part at 2:26 were it says THIS CHANNEL IS BLOCKED. the Manson Nazi channel is just too powerful, like a spell or sequence that makes civilisation self destruct. But the Channel is out there, hidden somewhere in the archives of our screen mediated vanishing memories. Mansonwave?

>>10525681
why

>>10526218
why not? I just wanna try and tune in to the channel to see what happens. Nothing on TV beats the Manson channel, don't like it? stick to rick and morty, you absolute soyman.

>>10524607
Clearly you know nothing about classical libertarianism. Come back when you've read something beyond ancap posts in 4chan.

>>10513740
>people actually arguing with libertarians

LMAO might as well call Jim Jones a freakish cult leader in his congregation.

>>10524633
>Really, if you want to get away from libertarianism, or really any ideology that supports atomized individuals instead of a holistic community, read any sort of ancient philosophy, particularly stoicism.
This is absolutelty incorrect. Libertarians support local communities, not extreme individualism. Being connected to someone 3000 kilometers away from you because you pay taxes to the same country and receive welfare from the same country is neither holistic nor a community.

>>10524632
Now now, Somalia isn't placed very well in economic competitiveness or the world liberty index now, is it?

>>10526569
Local communities are fucking garbage because they don't have the manpower or money to build or sustain large projects.

>>10525621
Wow this is the least coherent post I've seen in a while.

Isn't it ironic that libertarians fall back on the same "our ideology would work if everyone subscribed to it" argument that communists use?

>>10526628
Hey, at least commies controlled half the world once. I'd lik to see lolbertarians take over a single fucking country.

>>10513735
Just read some altruistic and anti-materialistic spiritual texts

>>10520112
:^)

>>10526581
Surprise surprise, local communities can interact and build things together without a central command forcing them to.

>>10526628
Libertarianism works regardless. The benefit would be higher if more people joined.

>>10522532
"via 9gag"
nice source anon

>>10513740
This one

>>10526560
Libertarianism is not a difficult doctrine to understand.

>>10525681
>dude the Jews killed Rockwell, what should we do
>welp, time to go innawoods, get our advice from literally Charles Manson, and lose the race war because the brown hordes will care whether it's Jews, Asians, or Europeans that rule over them

>>10513735

>>10520964
Truth

>>10527099
Posters in this thread suggest otherwise.

Thomas Carlyle