/lit/ - Literature

oops, that was supposed to say *pic*...proof I'm not doing anything editorial ;-)

How did you get a job in the industry?

>>1049582
my first job was an unpaid internship with a small publisher, from there i got a paid intenship (which are rare these days, which i hate) with the agency.

Are most authors that try and get their books published crap at writing?

>>1049590
Well yes, in the same way most people who try to make music or paint etc are crap. But plenty of good authors don't get published as well--it's a heavily saturated field, we get hundreds of submissions per day, but take on very few of them. And heck, to be honest, a lot of crap authors get published as well, simply because the idea is sellable or the platform is sellable etc.

out of every ten books submitted, how many are dan brown imitations, how many are run of the mill romances, and how many are 'brilliant'

Hmm...my mom just sent me this:
http://social.entertainment.msn.com/movies/blogs/the-hitlist-blogpost.aspx?post=1793130

cast announced for U.S. Girl With Dragon Tattoo film...not sure I see it. :-(

what would improve my chances of getting noticed among all the crap you get sent?

>>1049600
Dan Brown immitations have slowed down in the past six months or so, but a lot of thrillers nonetheless. We actually don't get many romances, only one of the agents represents them so they usually go straight to her--actually, Romance authors are the smartest about submitting believe-it-or-not. They are very good at networking on forums etc., so they know what to do with their books, getting referrals through friends, whereas many other writers just send blindly to every agent listed online without researching the right agents for them.

0 are brilliant, you'd need a much larger pool for that--i'd say at least 10,000 or so.

>>1049604
Firstly, write a very good cover letter. While we do pick things out from the slush which have gone on to become bestsellers, I'd say about 90% of our projects come referred to us by other authors, or editors and even friends, it's a good filtering system. Or we read pieces in magazines etc and go after the author directly. I think being part of a community, depending on what you're writing, is very important. Join writing groups, share your work with friends etc., try to publish in magazines in journals (and mention these in your cover letter!)...a lot of it is based on the "cream will rise to the top" formula.

Are there many opportunities for somebody who wants to get into proof-reading/ editing?

>>1049610
cool. so your saying its whoyou know not what you know.
so what makes a good cover letter - apart from mentioning previous stuff you've had published. and what if i dont know any authors. i am currently at uni studying englsih lit so there are societies i can join, lecturers i can befreind etc.

>>1049611
As far as in the book publishing world, it's pretty hard--a lot of former editors from publishers, who were fired or quit etc., get many of the good editing jobs, and most proof reading and copy stuff is done in house. You can find many jobs proofing for like medical journal stuff but that isn't exactly the same thing. We occasionally hire readers for projects, but rarely and it's not much money, but those readers are usually people who have worked in the industry in some way already.

>>1049619
>You can find many jobs proofing for like medical journal stuff but that isn't exactly the same thing.

So lets say I proof a medical journal or something for a while, then I want to move on to proof reading/ editing books. Will they look favorably upon that experience?

Also, all those old editors that are taking all the good jobs will eventually die off, right?

How likely is it that someone who is a terrible writer that gets a contract from a small publisher is buying in to a scam?

>>1049613
Well who you know is part of it, but i'm hesitant to simply say it's only that--we turn down a lot of stuff that is referred to us by authors as well, it won't land you a contract just get you in the door. Like anything, it's easier to get in if you have some sort of credential, even studying lit at university separates you from 50% of the submissions, but an agent will give a "closer look" the more credentials you have. As far as writing a good cover letter, there are millions of ways, you're probably better off searching online than hearing from me, but definitely don't write proclaiming you're the next J.D. Salinger or anything like that, that's the easiest way to get the agent to roll eyes and throw away.

I'm a writer as well, somewhat. I never really tried to publish anything but was in a writing group with people who wrote similar type stuff. A year later, one of those people went on to edit a book of short fiction from young authors, and wanted to use my piece. It's stuff like that I mean--the more you're out there, the more things happen. tiny steps...

>>1049624
I've never worked for a publisher (other than the very small one) so don't know their hiring procedures, but yes, I think it would certainly be helpful to them. Also, even more helpful might be magazines.

Editors will die off but others will replace them. You could simply start a website and charge low fees to edit people's work, people do actually do that, but some people look at it as borderline scam etc., but people DO make money doing it, from authors looking to get their books into better shape to submit to agents etc., but to do editing which is already beyond that point usually is more difficult

>>1049627
Hmm, well if the author has to put up any money with the publisher, chances are it's a scam. Otherwise it would simply depend on the contract they're signing--the royalty structure etc. Many small publishers do good jobs publishing books though, offering little or no upfront advance but help very much advance an author's career, it just depends on the terms/publisher.

What do you think the next big fad in the book industry will be? (Adult and/or YA).

>>1049659
Well publishers would pay millions to know that--usually it happens unexpectedly and whenever they think they have it, pay a million bucks for a first novel, it falls flat. But twilight, harry potter etc., those were books publishers paid very little money for which just caught on and became huger than ever thought possible.

They're still eating up anything with vampires right now, but that will probably die down, and readers are itching for smart thrillers along the lines of stieg larsson, a lot of copycats like that will probably come out in the next years. But as for my opinion, I think paranormal in general will get bigger--some big creepy novel with a ghost or something, commercial but literary, something like lovely bones but more creep. and as for the more literary market, I think the next big thing will probably be something that challenges the paper book--something all over the place, a novel existing solely within the pages of facebook or something like that, incorporates multiple mediums but in a way that is more than simply gimmick. but yeah, no clue really, those are just things that I'M waiting for...

>>1049684
Great answer, thanks Book-Anon!

What's your favorite book and/or series and why?

Also, favorite word?

>>1049691
Ohh, good question, I actually have a hard time coming up with one or even limiting it to a few or even a dozen. I'm a gay fag, so I used to always bring up things like The Thief's Journal by Genet, The Holy Terrors by Cocteau, Oscar Wilde and David Wojnarowicz, but I don't read so much of that type of stuff anymore. I also like Delillo, Mary Gaitskill, a lot of the beat stuff, occasionally stuff from the McSweeney's crowd, James Frey's Bright Shiny Morning was actually probably the best thing I've read recently, no actually I loved Let the Right One In. Maybe favorite ever though could be the kids book My Side of the Mountain, I really can't say, but that should give you an idea of the type of stuff I like.

Favorite word? hmm...I don't think I have one. Though I love to say the word "cookie" while i have a mouthful of chewed up cookies at the back of my throat--it's just feels right.

Has working for the agency made you cynical about writing and literature? Why or why not?

>>1049691
just an aside, i dont lurk /lit/ too much so i dont get the huge orson wells joke. anyone care to give me a quick explanation?

>>1049720
Yes. I was very ambitious about becoming a writer when I first started working for them (age 20). I actually worked myself up the ladder quite quickly and was representing books as an agent within a year and a half or so, but after that I realized I stopped enjoying books and even newspapers and magazines--I was always "researching" or looking for clients. Also, I obviously started seeing writers who I knew were better than me getting absolutely nowhere, and so I simply gave up writing altogether (which is common for most people in the industry I think), thinking it was a lost cause. It sort of humbled me in some ways, because I had thought of myself as a genius and realized I wasn't, but at the same time rather than continuing with it and trying to become better (duh, few 22 years olds to be honest are genius writers), I just quit it. It was only years later when I stepped away from the editorial side and "got my lit life back" that I was able to think about writing again, developing a distinctive voice etc. I don't think I'm too cynical anymore, I'm reading a lot again for pleasure and new things I would have never touched back then, but when I look at colleagues and friends on that side of the industry, yeah, they're all a bit cynical and jaded.

>>1049736
It's from a troll OP which was an incomprehensible mess. It was meant to say "I'm a huge H.G. Wells fan", but it turned out as "I'm a huge Orson Welles".

>>1049716
>I love to say the word "cookie" while i have a mouthful of chewed up cookies at the back of my throat--it's just feels right.

Obese_gay_man_with_unbrushed_teeth_pretends_to_be_involved_in_the_publishing_business.bmp

>>1049741
haha. 145 pound gay man with unbrushed teeth actually is involved, if not in a huge way.

>>1049741
how bout them cookies?

>>1049739
ah thats what i figured but i wasnt sure, thanks.

>>1049757
Why did you feel the need to lift your shirt up? Oh, your belly button looks like an eye by the way.

>>1049768
to show i wasn't obese...and because i'm a gay man i guess...isn't that what we do?

sort of like and eye, maybe if I color in a bit.

>>1049774
Are you a hipster faggot?

>>1049785
I'm pretty sure.

>>1049785

used to be, but not really anymore. i don't even know what kind of fag i am these days. i'm not even sure if i'm a fag actually.

>>1049791
should publish a book about that

Hom much money do writers usually make for their first novel?

>>1049819
Ai, that can be all over the place. It depends on the publisher too--most small publishers will usually offer an advance of less than $10K, sometimes even nothing, and more likely around $5K, but the larger publishers (Random House, Penguin, etc) will usually pay more than that, but not always...I'd say around $20K is fairly normal, though I've seen much higher and certainly lower. And then you earn royalties when the book comes out--getting a certain amount per book sold, first to earn back the amount of the advance, and if it's successful and does that then you get money on top of that. It depends on the genre as well.

Note: finally going to brush teeth now, brb if anyone is even reading

why do you think poetry has so little popularity with people? why is so little of it published by large houses, and what do you think can be done about changing the way people view it?

thanks for this thread by the way, some interesting stuff.

>>1049865
Hmm...I'm not so sure to be honest, I've never been a big poetry person. The brief answer to why publishers don't publish more is that not many people buy it--it's very easy for them to lose money on it. I think people also find a similar, more accessible form of poetry in music, people are more likely to buy/download that. While I thought the internet would "bring back" poetry on some level, I'm not sure if it has--I don't come across it in everyday surfing. I have no clue how or if this will change, sorry.

Do translations get published? Is that easier or harder than original work?

I think I know the answer to this, but-

Is it more difficult to publish a book of short stories than it is a novel? I'm guessing that it is.

>>1049883
Very rarely, to be honest. Generally, translations are farmed out to experienced translators who have a track record of producing respected translations.

Blind-submitted translations are never even considered, they're seen as effectively fan-fiction.

>>1049898
Yes. I can't think of any example of a volume of short-stories by an unknown author being published.

It's still a good idea to submit them, though, as an Agent may know of a publication that is looking for a single short. Tiny steps, as I said.

Also submit them to perdiodicals independently.

>>1049898
Yes and no. Books of short stories generally sell less than novels, but often publishers like to do it to "introduce" authors, if they've publisher a lot of short stories in big magazines (New Yorker, Harpers etc) already but haven't completed a novel yet--an agent will pitch it to them and essentially the publisher knows it won't be huge but they may think that author has promise so they want to snag him so they can get his novel when it is finished. That said, it's almost impossible to get a book of short stories published if you haven't sold a significant number of them to big magazines, or made some other splash that makes people already know your name (a book of short stories by a popular musician, or a popular Gawker blogger, etc). Though there are exceptions of course, but this is the general rule.

>>1049909
hey, thanks for the help here :) are you in industry too?

>>1049909
>>1049910

Alright, thanks for the answers.

Though, this worries me. I feel like I have a couple of stories that would be good enough for bigger magazines, but, seeing as how I'm totally unknown, how do you even get your short stories read by those people?

I get the feeling that people read the first paragraph of anything I write and toss it. I'm sure they think, Once slush, always slush.

Should I go for smaller journals and try to build a name for myself through those?

>>1049930
Definitely go for the smaller first. Rarely is anyone's first published piece in the New Yorker...though everyone tries ;)

>>1049907

So a publisher would have a group of translators that they normally use? Seems like it must be hard to get a start.

>>1049941
Generally, yes--though what is your situation? Are you wanting to translate books from foreign languages into English? Or books from English into a foreign language?

>>1049950

Foreign languages to English.

>>1049938
Heh, I didn't even try The New Yorker. I figured that they would just wipe their asses with my story. Especially since my story wasn't about white people in crumbling marriages, which is, like, 90% of what they publish.

So just to jump back a bit, you said that the way you got into the publishing industry was through an unpaid internship with a small publisher, which segued into a paid internship and then into a normal job; do you think that's the usual way of going about it? How hard is it to get a job right out of undergrad? I want to give that kind of job a try, but I'm in my last year of university so I'm not sure I'm going to have time to set up the contacts that I would imagine are necessary to get an internship. Alternatively, do you think that it would be possible for me to have a paying job and an unpaid internship at the same time (my mileage will vary, of course, but you certainly know more about the amount of work involved in a publishing internship than I do)?

>>1049966
I dunno, I read some pretty decent childhood/coming-of-age stories in a New Yorker once, but that was years ago...

>>1049959
Ok...as i work with an agency and I can't even think of a case where we've handled a book that wasn't already translated, I don't know much from the publisher side. I imagine if you found a way to offer it for cheap at first that may be a way to break in, but I honestly don't know how you would go about it. You may want to contact agents in that foreign language and say that you are interested in it--they may for example have a book (even a non-fiction proposal) that they want to submit to the US or British market and try you out for that cheap or free as a test of your skills. I also have a feeling that much of the US market goes through the UK market first...

>>1049977

Thanks, that's interesting.

>>1049973
That's where I have a big problem with the industry right now--most internships these days are unpaid, which means you mostly get people who have rich parents who can support them getting them (and as most of the publishing world is in NYC, you can imagine how much that costs...), so most of the people entering publishing these days are rich ivy league kids. I think it's killing the industry to be honest...

But yes, it's very hard to get a straight out job before an internship, unless you have work experience in a similar field (magazine etc), have a high-positioned friend or write a REALLY excellent cover letter. If you can't afford to work for free but really want to be in the industry, I recommend getting a part time internship and working in a bar/restaurant etc at the same time. Most of the interns we have only work a couple days a week, and not even full days, so it's definitely possible. Many have gone on to get Editorial Assistant jobs with publishers and other agencies--some are actually editors now who buy our clients' books.

>>1050001
P.S. an exception here is maybe if you go to a very exceptional school, or have taken a prestigious publishing course (the Columbia one, I think there's another one but I forget), then you have a better chance of getting a job without interning--especially if the school is outside of NYC.

Also, to be clear about why I think it's killing the industry is not that ivy league schools are bad, or rich parents are bad--many of these people are great for publishing. I just think it ends up that everyone comes from a similar background and has the same perspective on what is good literature.

>>1050001
Well that sucks, but thanks. I'll probably go the magazine route, since working at a bar in New York would bore the shit out of me and I'd probably have a hard time focusing on the internship.

>>1050025
Bars in NYC can at least be great sources of income--more so than an entry-level job in publishing. But there are other jobs as well. Try out whatever you can though. The best place to look for a job is through Publishersmarketplace.com--i think you have to have a paid membership to view them, but I think it's like 10 or 20 bucks a month, could be worth it for the month or two you're searching. It's also just a great site for keeping up on what's happening in the industry.

>>1050021
I'm a University of Denver Spanish major, so that's out :/

have you ever met amanda "binky" urban?

have you ever met mel jackson or her husband for that matter?

can you give us any amusing industry gossip?

Are you a top or a bottom? Have you ever slept with any famous gay writers?

And did David Wojnarowicz actually write anything? I thought he just bled all over the place then died.

>>1050056
Ha, nope never personally met Binky. Who is Mel Jackson?

No interesting gossip comes to mind, but I'm not really in that part of the world anymore.

>>Who is Mel Jackson?

Thomas Pynchon's agent/wife. Don't know who else she reps, but she's the Melanie Jackson Agency.

>>1050021
>I just think it ends up that everyone comes from a similar background and has the same perspective on what is good literature.

Goodness, that sounds like an industry-killer to me.

>>1050058
Mostly top. Wojnarowicz wrote a lot...I think it's better than he's visual art stuff. Close to the Knives was my favorite.

I generally like much younger guys, so haven't slept with any famous gay authors, though was hit on by a few.

>>so haven't slept with any famous gay authors, though was hit on by a few.

So drop some names! Come on, we want gossip. Who? Ed White? Michael Cunningham? Scott Heim?

Also, when you said earlier that you weren't even sure if you were a fag anymore, does that mean you're questioning your sexuality in your 30s? If so, why? Tell us about that, that sounds interesting. :D

>>1050098
I don't remember if Ed White or Michael Cunningham did, though probably not Cunningham because I may have actually sucked him off, he's ok. Never met or read Heim.

Well I think it comes down to /b/...I started going there only a few months ago...I've broken up with my boyfriend since then (though would have anyway, I don't blame /b/ for that), and all of a sudden I'd say I fantasize about girls now about 25% of the time...whereas before I did maybe once per year. I still haven't been with one, but every now and then flirt a little in a cafe etc. kinda freaked to be honest.

>>1050088
Ok, maybe not a killer...but I think as a result they take a lot fewer risks in what they publish and a lot of great books are overlooked or simply published by smaller publishers which don't have the push necessary to get them to the right readers.

Oh, I just got an idea for a new thread--I'll do it tomorrow maybe. I have access to BookScan, which reports the number of actual sales of books weekly (though not all of them, industry average is 70%)...could be good to take referrals from people for individual books or authors--i'm always shocked by how low some of the books I love are, or how high some of the books I hate are.

It it worth the effort getting a poetry collection published, or will no one end up even seeing it anyway?

>>1050182
it could be worth it simply for the satisfaction of having a book of poetry published, but I don't know that you need an agent for it. Also, having a book published can help build credibility which can lead to other things, securing a job as a professor for example. I have a Brazilian friend who is a poet and has published a few books in Portugese, has a bit of a following. He's often asked to speak at poetry events (and paid more for these than for his books), that sort of thing, and it's opened some doors for him simply on a social level, so I wouldn't consider it a waste of time.

ok I'm new to /lit/ so recommend me some books.(I can't start my own thread because I'm on my iPod) oh and that link of /lit/ recommended books won't work on this thing either. Also, I'm reading trainspotting at the moment, what do you guys think of it?

Would you say that the trade in second-hand books is good, bad, or neutral for the publishing industry? Why?

>>1050405

I've never read trainspotting, but you might like some of Palahniuk or Bret easton ellis if so?


>>1050433
Good question...Well obviously if you buy secondhand, the author or publisher don't get money for it, which is bad, but at the same time, if you are buying it secondhand for cheap, you're more likely to take a risk on it and if you like it, maybe you'll buy the author's next Hardcover. As they say, anything that gets people reading is a good thing. I don't exactly like that Amazon makes it so EASY to buy things secondhand, expecially for older books which are sort of the bread and butter for publishers, which rely on them to cover their basic costs so they can take chances on new books, but I'm not so against it--I was poor for many years and only bought second hand, it's the only way i was able to make reading a large part of my life. I think with electronic we'll also see reduced prices for books after they've been out a while, so that can mean more money for authors and publishers.

>>1050508
Thank you for that well-reasoned answer! Speaking of electronic publishing, what effect do you think the availability of ebook readers is going to have on hard-copy sales and prices?

>>1049938
Could you name a few respectable publications that are more realistic than the New Yorker for a first time writer to be published in? Poetry and short fiction if possible.

>>1050614
This totally depends on what you're writing--most journals have their own "flavor"--i would suggest researching this online, going to bookstores and seeing which ones jump out at you...you'll get a lot of rejection but just keep doing it, any author you like has been rejected a million times before breaking through. it sucks but it's part of the game.

>>1050606
I read almost exclusively on a kindle now. While sales are still a small percentage for most books, it's drastically changing (a year ago it was like 1 or 2%, now it's around 10% or more for certain books, and more backlist sales because people are finding them more easily. I think it will bring prices down because you don't have the printing shipping etc of course, but still, there are a lot of costs to publish a book, and authors deserve to be rewarded (see my Bookscan thread going on now for actual sales numbers--while some are selling millions, there are plenty selling only a few thousand copies), so I think we won't see a day of like $1 electronic books or anything, it's simply unrealistic. Though I also think publishers are being very bad at handling it, making many mistakes the music industry did, and it will take some time to work out. I think a new book just coming out should be in the 10-15 range, I think that's fair to all parties involved, and when you think about how much time you spend with a book, or how much you would spend going out to a bar or to a movie, heck, ordering a meal at a diner, that's not out of order. And that price should go down after time, I think to 7 or so. and of course after much time where the author and publisher have reaped the benefits, like a patent or something, that can go down to a buck or two.

Sorry for bumping this, but if OP is still around . . . .

Do you know any reputable journals that are willing to publish flash fiction? The only ones that I know of are these tiny publications that nobody takes seriously, since they're just full of little hipster stories that don't mean anything. I have this story that's at about 500 words and I don't know what to do with it.