/lit/ - Literature

>>10376683
Great, but too bad it's the only McCarthy work /lit/ ever talks about.

>>10376683
it wuz gud. u?

I enjoyed it but I don't feel I got much out of it. It's clear Cormac wishes he was writing Moby Dick.

>>10376690
I think because have a ambiguous ending,and a well developed character.

>>10376710
Literally almost all of his works have ambiguous endings. And in all honesty McCarthy is not that good at character. The closest thing he got to a complete character was Suttree.

>>10376730
>not good at character
>Judge is one of best villains in literature

>>10376740
There is no psychology to the judge. He's more a force than a character.

>>10376750
>Force
>not a character
>no psychology
wut

>>10376740
>Judge
>a villain
Wew, sure is reddit in here.

>>10376764
yes

Why did judge give kidman naked hugs at end?
Were they good hugs or bad?
These questions haunt me.

>>10376779
Prove me wrong

>>10376802
>pedophile
>give hugs
bad

>>10376802
It's either supposed to be symbolic, I remember the judge had some other relation with an idiot, was it a card?

That or Cormac's just mimicing the way Ahab took Pip to his side in the final days of his madness. (spoilers)

Judge always felt inhuman to me - like he was a force of nature.
Subjectively negative - both for the reader and the book's characters but not evil same as you would not characterise death or time as malign.
I pretty much agree with >>10376750
Especially on the psychology point which imo serves to further dehumanise him.


>>10376802
He squeezed that boy into jelly.

>>10376868
What was up with the epilogue? Was it symbolic of good triumphing over evil? (As in pouring fire into the holes)

>>10376839
He embodied the creative violence of civilization.
He is dancing, dancing.

He’s morally neutral. Neither good nor evil, he just is.

>>10376890
>Talks about war,laws,language
>kills,rape
Force of nature
Neutral?
nah,just devil in sheep

What was the symbolism behind the card scene? What did each card mean in relation to each character.

>>10376779

he was though.

>>10376779
Would not say he was a villain but certainly an antagonist.

>>10376937
All of Glanton gang was bad.

>>10376890

you need some virtue ethics if you believe this, son. he can embody the creative violence of your fedora all you want, but his actions make him a villain, and a particularly ruthless one.

So the judge raped and killed the kid?

>>10376956
Is the kid a villain as well? His immoral actions were also plotpoints.

>>10376983

My take on The Judge is that he's the ultimate nominalist. He rejects God and metaphysics to the point the only thing left is entropy and himself, so, in a somewhat ironic turn, entropy becomes his own metaphysics and himself its God.

>>10376995
I think Judge destroyed The kid,in a way we don´t know.

>>10377000
You're retarded. You completely misunderstood it. LMAO.

Show one,ONE villain who is good in the same as the judge

>>10377017
Light yagami is a possible candidate

>>10376989
an interesting counterargument for sure.

but i don't think the kid is a villain any more than i think adam was a villain in genesis. i'll say at least that the evil of the judge, who actively kills and corrupts others into doing so, is not of the same measure as the evil of he who is corrupted, the kid.

and honestly, the kid is just there as a vehicle, i don't know that we get enough about him to make a call on his inner character.

>>10377025
Raito was a hero though. I was so fucking pissed when he lost. I don't even want to think about that. I wish he was real so he could purge all the scum of the Earth.

reading it now actually, enjoying it so far

>>10377032
Me too, anon, me too.

>>10377026
My point was pretty much semantics. I just don't quite agree with "villain" as a term for judge. As I said before, he just feels too supernatural, symbolic and almost metaphysical to me for that kind of category.
Agreed about the degrees of evil though.

I found it kind of hard to follow.

That first description of the marauding band of Comanches was the most terrifying/ beautiful thing I've ever read. Of course, I'm not very well read. If you lads could point me in the direction of anything else like it I'd be much obliged.

>>10377025
>Good villain
>in the same level as the judge

>>10377044

i gotcha. i could buy that the judge's character just sort of lives as a force outside of category, that's a cool take.

Blood meridian is some writing exausting at the same as moby dick,it´s so fucking exausting but i finished
Jesus Christ what is problem with this guy?
This writing....

>>10377025
>hurr why not just kill all criminals lol

>>10377075
I don't remember exactly how he did it but he tweaked the prose to make it sound like a rambling sermon.
Apocalyptic is the only way I can describe it. Meme about tortillas all you want but the writing in BM is really something special.

>>10377025
Unironically one of the best villains ever.
>>10377032
This. The fact that he was in a way the good guy is what makes him so interesting.

>>10377086
he is a meme at villain,seriously if Judge find him he will just rape and kill him,in my opinion Joker was a good villain,evil,sarcastic,intelligent.
But Light?he is stupid as fuck

>>10377075
Tbh I enjoyed the prose quite a lot and found it very engaging and beautiful.
Took me a long time to get through the book though.

So,we can agree Blood meridian is a good book?
Right?

>>10377097
Yeah, The Joker is another great villain - intelligent, nihilistic and with a wicked sense of humor.

To any who read his other works what do you think the Judge's relation is to the three men in Outer Dark and Chigurh in NCFOM? I think as the hunters in OD were the mans shadow who enacted the violence in his soul, the Judge was sort of an extreme version which was the shadow of all mankind. Chigurh was something of a man who embraces the shadow. I think there's a perceptible relation as they were all supernatural embodiments in a sense (or at least Chigurh molded himself after one).

>>10377097
Please don't put a fedora on the judge

>>10377025
If we're gonna bring animu and mango into this it's worth pointing out Light was a faggy and juvenile failure in pihl 101.

>>10377131
I just realized that Judge and Joker are literally the same,both are evil,sarcastic,intelligent,etc

>>10377051
Moby Dick if you haven't read it already.

>>10377159
Judge would make that fag his bitch too

>>10377196
Tbh Holden would fit very well into Berserk.

>>10376956
I'm not saying ethics isn't a thing, nor am I trying to tip a fedora; but the Judge isn't a moral rational being.

He is a transcendent force.

>people here literally arguing that a pedophile who skinned Mexican farmers for fun wasn't a villain
i want /pol/ to leave

>>10377025
>pilfer a concept from a popular Ballard short story, market it to children who don't read
>doll the protag up with all sorts of angsty cliches, appeal to brooding teens who want to self insert
>delude your poorly read audience into believing you've created an iconic antihero, as fully developed and complex as any found in western literature
BASED OHBA

>>10377235
>nature regularly kills thousands
>nature is a villian
>applying morality to a force

>>10377245
The Judge, supernatural or not, was conscious and thinking. That makes him more than a force.

>>10377229

i understand, i think i missed that point in your post.

that's an interesting distinction for sure, and i buy it as a read, but i'm not sure i agree with it because of >>10377235 and >>10377247

like he's transcendent and maybe outside of the category of human morals and whatever, but like . . . jeez he's pretty tangibly immoral.

so i understand both takes, but i lean toward classifying him as a villain because in the physical space he occupies in a world of human interaction, he's pretty committedly evil.

The judge is clearly a villain,what the fuck is this shit?
this guy just rape and kill.

Post characters who will fight with the Judge

>>10377380
Restricted to lit figures?

>>10377380
Raito would kill his bitch ass in like a second with his Death Note.

>>10376690
This.
It's my favourite book however I wish /lit/ talked more about Suttree and MLP: Everything goes horribly wrong, the trilogy..

>>10376913
I don't know what the three cups the man (representing The Kid) is shown thinking about, at one point I thought it was supposed to be his three companies (White's, Glanton's, himself) but I can not give any clear answers. I think the fourth cup obviously represents the Judge and his interest in mentoring the Kid, (" I would have loved you as a son"). I think the art of the card says more about it than the card's actual meaning; the kid is indifferent to the supernatural Judge and refuses to acknowledge his other-wordly powers.

I forget what cards Black Jackson and Glanton get though.

>>10377874
>Raito would kill his bitch ass in like a second
Sorry son, but at the end of the day your boy's gettin' a toilet hug.

>>10377883

MLP? My little pony? No way that's what you mean.

>Sutree was top 3 til Sot weed factor pushed it down a notch.

/lit/ talks about Cormacs other books frequently enough, the road, No country for old men. etc.

But They should talk about Blood Meridian as much as they do, it's his best work by far and it is truly a work of art.

>listened to the audio version at least 5 times,
>Richard Poe does such a phenomenal job

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIQynsWpBpQ

>>10377075
I read it while sick and having fever dreams. I felt the thirst, the cold. I walked underneath the yawning sky.

>>10376890
Is he human? Or is he dancer?

>>10378500
>/lit/ talks about Cormacs other books frequently enough
Now I frequent /lit/ quite a bit and I can only barely remember seeing one thread about Suttree before with some actual discussion. I remember a Road thread that was shitposting. I cannot remember there ever being a thread about any other book with real discussion. Maybe you remember more but regardless McCarthy an author that should be understood in his total career since every book is more illumined with his other books in mind.

>>10376890
you fucked up

the judge can never be truly known. he is something you can never understand. applying a label to the judge ruins the book.

>>10377241
wait, what is this short story?

>>10376683
ah, blood meridian, monsieur? that novel is the sark and chaparral of literature, the filament whereon rode the remuda of highbrow, corraled out of some destitute hacienda upon the arroya, quirting and splurting with main and with pyrolatrous coagulate of lobated grandiloquence. our eyes rode over the pages, monsieur, of that slatribed azotea like argonauts of suttee, juzgados of swole, bights and systoles of walleyed and tyrolean and carbolic and tectite and scurvid and querent and creosote and scapular malpais and shellalagh. we scalped, monsieur, the gantlet of its esker and led our naked bodies into the rebozos of its mennonite and siliceous fauna, wallowing in the jasper and the carnelian like archimandrites, teamsters, combers of cassinette scoria, centroids of holothurian chancre, with pizzles of enfiladed indigo panic grass in the saltbush of our vigas, true commodores of the written page, rebuses, monsieur, we were the mygale spiders too and the devonian and debouched pulque that settled on the frizzen studebakers, listening the wolves howling in the desert while we saw the judge rise out of a thicket of corbelled arches, whinstone, cairn, cholla, lemurs, femurs, leantos, moonblanched nacre, uncottered fistulas of groaning osnaburg and kelp, isomers of fluepipe and halms awap of griddle, guisado, pelancillo.

>>10378500
>MLP? My little pony? No way that's what you mean.
The boarder trilogy which starts with All the Pretty Horses.

>>10377380
Rorshach
Mr Wednesday from American Gods
Dumbledore
Aragorn

>>10378537
I miss monsieurposting so much

>>10377380
Jesus, Van Hellsing, Guts.

>>10376802
Is the kid present at the end when the judge was dancing and saying he would never die? What happened to him, I wonder? Hmm. It's not as if the judge has a history of untoward behavior.

>>10378678
>>10376802


The Man is not present when the judge is dancing
nor is the bear, or the missing little girl.
What happened to him is too brutal to be described. Real question is

IS THAT BEAR THE SAME BEAR THAT ATE THE DELAWARE?

>>10376683
SJW drivel with some pretty words

>>10379034

There's nothing SJW about Blood Meridian, its almost as if you were posting that as some kind of funny joke.

>>10378527
Now: Zero
Make sure you read to the end, anon.
*sinister chuckle*

>>10379037
The entire book is "waaa Indians dindu nothing but white men are all cartoon villains"

The scene of the hunters killing people in a village and literally raping their corpses was retarded. Putting a token black guy in the gang does not make Mccarthy not racist

It's literally antiwhite revisionism meant to make us sympathise with savages and pretend we aren't two massively different peoples

>>10376683
Ich müss tanzen!

>>10376887
Not at all, just one form of hierarchy or domination supplanting another. The book has a very clearly dialectical, almost Marxist attitude toward history as shown in the discussions of the vanished Anasazi and the inability of Glaton's gang to persist in a civilizing world.

The fence posts are the nails in the coffin of the Old West, announcing that for all his claims of immortality the titanic Judge is dead and buried by a new pantheon.

>>10379046
The levels of /pol/ double trolling has gotten ridiculous. They're barely trying to pretend they've read the book.

>>10379046
But anon, the conclution of the novel indicates that only will to power and violence are truly human qualities beyond individual terms. That is as far as a moralistic or liberal conclution as it gets.

>>10376683
Child of God is his best work

>>10377002

From a Jungian perspective, I think the kid at the end was overcome by the Judge (the subconscious evil within all of us), and raped and killed somebody.

>>10378991
>IS THAT BEAR THE SAME BEAR THAT ATE THE DELAWARE?
I actually wondered that last week myself.
Also how did a little girl get a bear that killed a Delaware (a hard motherfucker)

>>10376683
I hated this book.
It felt artificial and boring. None of the characters seem real. It is not even compelling.

>>10376683
chris?

>>10378991
Read your Toriyama. The judge was simply the fused form of the bear and the little girl, embodying the worst aspects of both. The judge's attempt to fuse with the man either failed (as two fused entities can't combine with a third) or resulted in less than desirable fusion a la Veku. The judge dances at the conclusion of the novel to sustain his fused form. Pretty basic stuff, honestly.

>>10379117
His most shocking, yes, but not his best. That's Suttree.

>>10379117
>All to the north the rain had dragged black tendrils down from the thunderclouds like tracings of lampblack fallen in a beaker and in the night they could hear the drum of rain miles away on the prairie. They ascended through a rocky pass and lightning shaped out the distant shivering mountains and lighting rang the stones about and tufts of blue fire clung to the horses like incandescent elementals that would not be driven off. Soft smelterlights advanced upon the metal of the harness, lights ran blue and liquid on the barrels of the guns. Mad jackhares started and checked in the blue glare and high among those clanging crags jokin roehawks crouched in their feathers or cracked a yellow eye at the thunder underfoot.
That there is where I realized it was my favorite book.

>>10379260
Not sure why the pdf has weird characters but this entire segment is just why I love reading.

>>10379046
The indians weren't exactly described as noble savages though, wasn't there a scene were they sieged a whole village because they wanted to get drunk?

>>10379324
That and the whole babies hanging in tree thing.

garbage, since it's based on the trash premise that humans are all the same.

>>10376989

Shit, on that topic, has anyone read that interpretation where the Kid himself is a paedophile, and Holden represents his drive to commit evil acts? There was a really good analysis where the guy pointed out the evidence: the final scene with the judge enveloping him was interpreted as his giving into his evil nature. Remember that in this last scene there is a little girl that goes missing, the girl whose father owned the dancing bear that got shot, and the other men are going out to try and find her. The kid picks a whore that is described as dwarf-like, and it's implied he still cannot perform with her. He leaves to go to the jakes, funds the missing little girl in there crying for the dead bear, and the Judge takes his metaphorical hold of him. The guy pissing outside the jakes after, who warns the other men not to enter, is not a bystander who has seen Holden kill/rape the Kid or its aftermath, he is the Kid himself, finished defiling the girl and heading away afterwards. There was way more evidence but I forget it

>>10379046

What the fuck are you taking about, you retarded troll? The Indians are shown to be literally the most brutal cunts in the book, smashing babies skulls, skinning people alive, raping men as they die. And there is no such scene with the hunters as you describe. 2/10 bait faggot

Everyone wonders about the last scene at the jakes, but the one that bamboozled me completely is the end of the previous chapter.

>The Kid (now grown up) wanders about, ends up getting a job escorting some kind of mission
>Halfway through the trip he ditches them, goes up the mountains
>Sees from afar some kind of religious procession marching towards who knows where
>Finds a place to camp and sleeps
>Next day he scopes out the land and sees the procession has been butchered
>Everyone mutilated or beheaded or disemboweled... except for an old lady who is kneeling in prayer
>He approaches and talks to her
>"He reached into the little cove and touched her arm. She moved slightly, her whole body, light and rigid. She weighed nothing. She was just a dried shell and she had been dead in that place for years."

>mfw

>>10379863
Simple metaphor for how the violent Wild West is gone but its memory persists

>>10376890
You're so reddit.

>>10376730
It's not that he lacks the skillset, it's because he deliberately avoids detailed description of his characters. In BM he doesn't even name the the protag and antag. Read some of his early drafts of BM. You'll find he intentionally 'reduces' his characters. He wants the reader to fill in the blanks.

>>10376937
The Judge was probably a demon and a specific one. There's a symbol someone draws in the sand at one point that was a symbol for this demon. I can't remember which one.

>>10379863

The Kid, who has become The Man by this point, has changed his ways. He's tried to leave the violence of his past self behind. When he sees the old lady kneeling he goes to help her, something Glanton or David Brown or any of the other members of the gang would never have even considered. His attempt to aid the woman is, of course, useless, because she is just a dessiccated corpse. This is a fitting metaphor for his redemption as a whole. His attempts at kindness, at atoning for the past end up barren, pointless. Think about where he ends up later, in Bexar, a town that is declared to him as sinful and ungodly, yet he still proceeds there. He kills a youth, though justifiably, and heads to drink and whore. And this is where he meets the Judge again. The Man falls back into his old ways, the only ways he has known since he was a child. "The child the father of the man" as is narrated in the first page of the book. His attempts to redeem himself are impossible, he has been too long a creature of darkness

>>10379046

The entire book was "x"
>poster obviously didn't read the book.

Mentions scenes about corpse rape
>never happened

Black Jackson was great and in no way shoehorned into the group. To think Mccarthy tried to include him to appease a group or to provide a "token" character is... ah yes almost as if you were posting this as some kind of funny joke again....


>>It's literally antiwhite revisionism meant to make us sympathise with savages and pretend we aren't two massively different peoples

It literally isn't. You are grasping and trolling and honestly doing a bad job at both.

>yet here I am replying ;)

>>10379188

Little girl wasn't there alone. She was part of an act. Who knows how the handler got the bear.

>>10376683

>>10380168

Truly the best meme from that thread

>enmity and landscape

though there was little enmity in Sutree

I think the judge is the devil,he says he will never dies or sleep,how a human survive if not sleep,and never dies?,how the fucking he know Tate?there is no way to the judge know that,and his vision from world,he is hyper intelligent,strong,pale,hairless,7 feet height,he take a notebook and write and than destroy or take,he uses and posess and than destroy,and he will be the only dancer and the others will be in darkness.
There are STRONG evidences,he can't be human,he is not a human,he is a force,devil,thing,but not a human.

>>10376750
>>10376876
I agree. Same goes for Chigurh.

>>10380409
Throughout the novel, the Judge is shown to be a sadistic rapist, killing and raping innocent children and women. While most of his victims are killed, it is suggested that the Judge is immortal and therefore will live forever, and in one point he might have allowed one victim to live, a victim that will bare his seed. And the victim's name was Chigurh, and the child of the Judge will be named...Anton, Anton Chigurh.
Fan theories wiki blood meridian
In my opinion i think it's very good, but how?

Why was glanton so badass?

>>10380444
>>10380409
Nah Chirgurh's just a man. I made a post earlier about my shadow interpretation but I think Chigurh was a man who embraces the shadow of man the judge represents. He tries to act as a force but is fucked sideways in the end by a truck because he's still human and still bound to the supposed grim causality he spouts.

>>10380574
I don't read the book, but seriously?
I just see the movie.

>>10380517
Glanton was fucking cool.
>>10377025
Kek. Johan Liebert is the only anime equivalent to the Judge

>>10380721
I wonder if there a neet with Johan and Judge, what will happen?
Also Light yagami can kill Judge if he write his name in the book, and if not, the shinigami can kill too.

Somebody here, posted in another thread about the epilogue of the book. And this guy, said that the epilogue was about a new Titan arising, the Titan of Industry, because now the Old West doesn't exist anymore, so there's no space to them, even the Judge. I use the term Titan, because that's what Bloom, used in another analysis, he didn't came with the same conclusion of course.

>>10380603
I ddin't see the movie lol. I thought Chigurh gets hit by the truck at the end in the movie.

>>10379068
Intelligent post.

>>10380788
In the dawn there is a man progressing over the plain by means of holes which he is making in the ground. He uses an implement with two handles and he chucks it into the hole and he enkindles the stone in the hole with his steel hole by hole striking the fire out of the rocks which God has put there. On the plain behind him are the wanderers in search of bones and those who do not search and they move haltingly in the light like mechanisms whose movements are monitored with escapement and pallet so that they appear restrained by a prudence or reflectiveness which has no inner reality and they cross in their progress one by one that track of holes that runs to the rim of the visible ground and which seems less the pursuit of some continuance than the verification of a principle, a validation of sequence and causality as if each round and perfect hole owed its existence to the one before it there on that prairie upon which are the bones and the gatherers of bones and those who do not gather. He strikes fire in the hole and draws out his steel. Then they all move on again.

>>10380871
Yeah and this man "progressing over the plain by means of holes which he is making in the ground" was putting a fence or wall I don't know the right word in english. But it can be an allegory to the progress the civilization and modernism that arrived in the Wild West, killing the Myth of the Wild West. I'm just thinking loud, I'm not american, I just like to read about the Wild West and this stuffs. So, I'm probably talking bullshit.

So,what is the kid?,if the judge is the evil,what the kid is doing?he is by theories raped and killed,but why he came to the judge?,is because to get punished?,he can´t try a new life?.

>>10380765
>Light yagami can kill Judge if he write his name in the book
Stop saying imagay could kill the judge. Judge a'int even a person, and Holden's obviously just a fake moniker.

>>10380954
shinigami can kill he

>>10380962
Archons > Shinigami

>>10377025
No,this man is.

>>10381096
Pretty sure Guts, by all means, is not a villain.

Is Judge the best villain in books?

>>10380954

The Judge was a real person and so was Glanton, they are not fake monikers.

>

>>10379522
I've always believed the pissing guy was the Kid, so I like that theory

>>10381222
How?the kid is the guy in outhouse being killed by the judge.there are strong evidences,the kid is killed by the judge,and i think he killed the little girl with the kid

>>10381234
I believe that the judge killed the kid and the little girl too. But this theory about the pissing guy being the kid it's interesting, I can't deny.

>>10381245
I see a theory saying what happens in the outhouse is nothing,because you You fill with your imagination what happened,i see too,Blood meridian characters is based in a album and one named Judge,don´t have lyrics,is nothing,
and this theory is perfect in my opinion.

>>10379863
That scene has always stuck out to me as the most esoteric part of BM. here's what I got out of it. It's a stretch but I haven't heard any theory I liked better.

>Maccarthy opens BM with a quote by a Gnostic mystic concerning death.
>Gnosis comes from Sophia, human wisdom being feminine in the holy order of existence.
>there are no female main characters in BM.
>The night the Kid is born the Leonids meteor shower is taking place, Maccarthy also makes it a point to always address the constellations in the sky in most chapters.
>The kid's mother dies during childbirth
>The kid's father, an ex-school teacher, never teaches the kid to read because of the stress of his wife's death
>the Kid was denied the "gnosis" of literature because of his mother's death.
>he also became anti-social and merciless.
>when the kid (now the man) finds the dead woman she is said to be wearing a robe adorned with stars and moons
>he repents to the woman seeking salvation, believing that by saving her he is somehow saving himself
>but the kid never had any chance at redemption, he was irredeemable from the very beginning. He has never had any divine female wisdom, he was doomed to be a thoughtless, emotionless warrior from the beginning.
>the Judge later destroys him for betraying his nature.

>>10380871
What do bones represent in BM? He gives fire numerous meanings throughout the book but he is always vague about the goddamn bones.

>>10380082
No there's mention of Native women being raped in the scene where the Delaware kills those babies, but earlier we see Indians raping dead filibusters too

I fucking love this book, should I read No Country (love the movie) or Suttree/Child of God?

Read Child of God,the book and the movie are the same with minor changes.

>>10381762
Go to town, man. Then start a thread so we can discuss those books (Suttree doesn't get enough love).

>>10381762
This post is for you,sorry i forget to link to you.>>10381863

>>10381245
I just don't imagine that a scene so terrible it can't be described has a random guy casually pissing outside when other random people curse what they see. The only other person aside from the judge who has seen horrible scenes is the man

>>10381866

I see Suttree mentioned on all these "/lits/ favourite books" info graphics, but almost never actually mentioned in discussion here. Someone should start a thread or something because it's a damn good book, and has way more nuanced than Blood Meridian

>>10381951
lowest common denominator dude
threads about specific and only semi-popular works only receive a few informative replies before dying

threads with widely referential topics or absolute plebshit are known and relatable to everyone and thus receive the most replies

What the hell was up with this guy? Why did he rape kids? Why did he like all the violence? How comes he hasn't aged in 30 years?

>>10381961
I think because he was not a normal human. In my opinion, he was a representation of somekind of force like, war, violence, the evil of human being. And all the stuffs like "he will never die", shows that probably he wasn't a normal human.

>>10380765
That's a good quesiton. Johan doesn't have the God Complex nor the depravity the Judge does though. I'm guessing The Judge would be the first one to talk and Johan would point a finger on his forehead but the Judge would ignore him and then Johan would shoot him.
Literally an encounter between two devils

>>10381991
That makes a lot of sense.

What did you make of the other characters? Especially The Kid and Tobin, was Tobin some sort of symbol of Good in contrast to the Judge's evil battling with him over the soul of The Kid?

>>10382074So you have Tobin, who was a priest once, and he wasn't all that bad, he believed in god. And the judge who was an (sort of) atheist if we stop to analyse his debates with Tobin. The fate of Tobin it's unclear, right? He simply disapear. In the end the kid fall to the judge side. He saw some many atrocities that he can be bad or good, what he saw maybe transcends these rotules.

>>10382054
>he says he will never dies
i think Judge is immortal.

I TINK DAH MAYBEE DA JUGE IS NOT A REEL PEEPIL... MAYBEE HEE IS.. A SIMBOL..

WAT DO U GUISE FINK OF DIS THEEWEE?

>>10381955
Which absolutely asinine. I'd start a McCarthy thread but BM is a huge meme so what happens is everyone one on /lit/ reads it so they can get the meme out of the way and 90% of them have never heard of or will never read any other McCarthy. It lowers the quality of BM discussion because people don't have the context of the authors career.

>>10382112
Yeah Tobin gets shot by the judge but he and the Kid make it to safety, he goes off to get medical help but isn't seen again.

>>10382226
Tell to us your thoughts about the book then.

>>10382195
I'm not sure. It may just be because his presence is so strong that people fail to pull the trigger, like The Kid. If he had pulled the trigger, the Judge would have died. It's Tenma and Johan all over again. I remember Johan also said something like "You can't shoot me. I'm a nonexistent person." not to mention surviving 2 bullets to the head.

>>10382259
Well you see the prototypical interpretation is the thesis that the Judge is a demiurgic archon, who through his erasure of ancient symbols, his theatricality of violence, and repeated pronouncements that there only exists only the here and now, is curbing man's attempts at transcendence from the material plane.

against this I'd rather pose that despite the gnostic and theodic elements, the most meaningful moral implications can only be drawn if the Judge IS a man. And while plumbing his psychology could glean some keen insights into the nature of madness or the pathology of murder, we must nominalistically suspend contemplation of the judge as point of reference (or a figure of psychology), and instead analyze how we ought ourselves to hold against what elements of him are purely human. The righteous path to stand against a being of pure violence. The story parallels the way in which the gospels progress (many of the Judge's speeches read as antithetical to the sermon on the mount) and the Judge can also be understood as Tubal-cain. A heideggerian reading could show the judge as a pure instantiation of Technos.

>>10382237
Meme?
Fuck,this is some of the biggest books in american literature and one of best books in history,i am curious to your meme book,do you have it?.

>>10382317

Nice word salad there, faggot. You've managed to say less in 8 lines of thesaurus baiting trash and namedropping than any other shitpost on this thread. Well done

>>10382317
Well that's really accurate. I agree with it, the problem when you think that the judge is a force of something, it's that in some way, he's taken away from humanity some kind of supernatural stuff, like if all the atrocities that he did, a human being couldn't have done. Of course that the whole gang was violent, but I think you got it. I really need to read the Old Testament and later read Blood Meridian. I never thought about the sermons of the Judge making some kind of allusion to the Jesus sermons.

>>10382337

I don't think he means it's a meme in and of itself, but that its a meme on this board. It's not a judgement on the quality of the book, but the fact that it's seen as some kind of milestone that you have to cross on the path to being well read. Which is a terrible way to view literature in the first place

>>10382337
I never said it wasn't a good book. In fact it's one of my favorites.
But it's also a big meme. Bloodmeme to be exact. And mandatory reading for every /lit/fag in the same way IJ is.

>>10382361
>like if all the atrocities that he did, a human being couldn't have done
He didn't really commit any atrocities. I recall the book abstaining from showing him do anything and instead showed his influence in encouraging atrocity in the rest of the gang. So in fact the atrocities were committed by humans.

>>10382364
Sorry,i misread so.

>>10382373
You're right, like some kind of Hitler.

>>10382373

The book almost never mentions who does what when the killing starts. Of course there's examples of Glanton shooting the old lady, or Davy Brown setting the soldier alight, but in general the atrocities are described as being committed by the group as a whole.So Holden isn't an exception in that regard. It could be argued that the Kid and Toadvine are also unlikely to have committed atrocities, because they are also never mentioned directly taking part

>>10382351
>U USED BIG WORD ME NO UNDERSTAND GRRRRR U MUST BE SHITPOST ME MAD

>>10382373
he scalps a six year old and crushes a man's head with his bare hands
children go missing whenever he is present

>>10382351
You just can't into gnosticism m8

BM reading group when?

>>10382373
He scalped a child and literally threw puppies in a river. he almost certainly murdered and likely fucked kids everywhere the gang went, unless you're one of the dumb fucks who think that was the kid. He also kept a retard as a pet on a leash.

>>10382427
Wasn't the judge based on a historical figure, or was it all bullshit from the Glanton gang member/chronicler? Anything else about the judge in the historical record?

>>10382527
The gang is real or part of the gang. Glanton really existed. The Judge, he is mencioned in the historical documents that McCarthy used. From wikipedia:
"The Glanton gang segments are based on Samuel Chamberlain's account of the group in his memoir My Confession: The Recollections of a Rogue, which he wrote during the latter part of his life. Chamberlain rode with John Joel Glanton and his company between 1849 and 1850. The novel's antagonist Judge Holden appeared in Chamberlain's account, but his true identity remains a mystery. Chamberlain does not appear in the novel."

Fuck this,ALL (except toadvine and the priest) of people in glanton gang was a bad people,mexicans,natives,judge,glanton,brown,the jacksons,the priest is a good person,toadvine too,and the kid i don´t know because the theory.

>>10382409

Nah, I understood what you were saying, cunt. Using overly elaborate sentence constructions and complicated words where they're not necessary, and to illustrate a mundane point, only makes you sound like a tryhard though. Especially given your derision of others who expressed much better ideas more succinctly

>>10382663
>I KN-KNEW EXACTLEE WAT U S-SAID! F-FAG, I JUST NEED U 2 TYPE IN A WAY M̶Y̶ ̶T̶I̶N̶Y̶ ̶B̶R̶A̶I̶N̶ ̶C̶A̶N̶ ̶U̶N̶D̶E̶R̶S̶T̶A̶N̶D̶ ̶ IN A WAY DAT MAKES SENSE

>>10382563
So assuming Chamberlain wasn't a bullshitter, there could be little judglets floating about out there today. Fuck me.

>>10382563
>Chamberlain described Holden as well-spoken, intelligent and physically quite large. He also described Holden as perhaps the most ruthless of the roving band of killers led by Glanton.
shit lol

>>10382527
>>10382563
"My Confession" is embellished to hell and back from what I've heard, so the Judge may or may not have ever existed. You can read every mention of him in "My Confession" here.

https://theeveningrednessinthewest.wordpress.com/2009/08/30/some-of-the-history-behind-cormac-mccarthys-blood-meridian-glimpses-of-the-real-life-judge-holden/

>Light yagami,you respect your father and admire,you seeks for justice
this show is worst than peppa pig.
>>10377025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHptxGT0c0o
THIS IS THE REASON LIGHT CAN´T WIN AGAINST THE JUDGE
what a shit show man,shit show,this is a meme and seriously this is so >2muchdeep4myass
kek,truly a madman.

>>10382567
The Kid is definitely a bad person but not Delaware, Dan Brown bad, as explained by the judge near the end how he never fully committed himself to the violence.

>>10382784
I agree to you,this is a overrated show.

>>10382793
Delaware?the guy who take a rock and smash babies?,yeah,pretty much he is not evil.

I loaned this to my 88 year old grandmother. She liked it!

>>10381533

of all the violence in the book this sticks out to you as, some how too much?

Come on now, maybe give the book another read and come back with some well thought out critique,

as so far you've come up

>cartoon villains
>restarted, racist
>anti white revisionist


You've got nothing to stand on here on any of these points.Maybe read Moby Dick again, and then maybe read Paradise Lost. Then read Blood Meridian again and take your Political Correct obsession some where else.

>>10376764
Moby Dick my dude. The guy you're responding to is right. McCarthy is a good colonialist in that way. But desu I read him more as a shitty attempt at a Western Hawthorne than a Melville at this point (he'd be freightened by the comparison I'm sure. Few can live up to good old Nathaniel).

>>10379068
Best post in the thread. I remember reading the epilogue over and over again, I don't know why but it felt so meaningful even though it was entirely unrelated plot wise.

>>10376683
A really, really good black comedy.

>>10381961
>>10381991

what is the first bit of dialog directed at the judge?

>>10378515
fucking a

>>10379068

>The fence posts are the nails in the coffin of the Old West,

Yes 100% truly some insight friend.

> announcing that for all his claims of immortality the titanic Judge is dead and buried by a new pantheon.

Not quite. The Judge is likely a bit more timeless than the Old West.

Might buy a copy as a christmas gift for a buddy who shares my appreciation for Donald Ray Pollock, hope it’s not too slow for him.

Let us look at what One-Star Amazon Reviewers thought of it: https://biblioklept.org/2015/09/27/selections-from-one-star-amazon-reviews-of-cormac-mccarthys-blood-meridian/

>>10381356
A similar theme runs through The Road, with the Wife and the Wolf, doesn't it?

>>10383412
These are hilarious

>Holden is the sort of overt child defiling character who in real life wouldn’t last a month in a state penitentiary, because someone would rightly dispatch him as soon as possible.

>>10376683
Beautiful ugliness. Bloom's probably right about its stature.

>>10382992
Hawthorne is shit and the only good thing he did was influence Melville.

>>10383412
>>10383483
>In a well ordered society McCarthy would be serving a life term or he would not exist at all.

damn..

>>10383412
>https://biblioklept.org/2015/09/27/selections-from-one-star-amazon-reviews-of-cormac-mccarthys-blood-meridian/
>Eliminate five words from the English language (“They rode on” and “He spat”)and this book would have been about 25 pages long
Hard to argue.

>>10383381
agreed

>>10383668
why are they spitting so much in the desert anyway

>>10383935
Have you ever been in a desert? They're dusty and windy. You get sand in your mouth sometimes

>>10383935
tobake

post YFW the man punching the holes in the epilogue is Tobin "building" a better world

I'm probably a brainlet but I don't see the horror or the shock in this book. I guess all those war documents and films kind of made all of the descriptions in the book look lame.

At best, the relentless barrage of lame shock and gore reminded me of a fedora atheist writing something to one up some christian faggot.

>>10385362
No,there is no way.

>>10385625
you know it's true

>>10378379
>>10376913

Interesting side note: this is the card that appears to the kid prior to finding the family of performers in the run down abandoned village where the kid finds a pot of beans.

>>10382677
is this the worst meme ever created?

>>10385375
>Fedora atheist writing something to one up some
>christian faggot
Mccarthy is a master in american literature,i think you don´t read the book right,blood meridian is more than this.

>>10386038
Every defense of BM's existence and its violence reads out like some teenager finding Fight Club for the first time, I'm just so sorry, I've read it thrice and try to like it.

>>10377883
Cities of the Plain was bad, imho.

>>10379046
>The entire book is "waaa Indians dindu nothing but white men are all cartoon villains"

You didn't read the book.

>>10387174
I agree. However the very ending made the shit slog worth it.

Anyone else finding it difficult not to giggle when the book is referred to as "BM"?

>>10376683
I didn't understand it. Hopefully I will when I'm older.

>>10380082
>mentions scenes about corpse rape
>never happens

Literally page 56.

>>10383381
>>10383863
Funnily enough, I find the Judge (and this leading away into applicability here) to represent the death of spirituality in America, or that violence replaces religion. That the Judge makes copies of artifacts and destroys the original, I say, is evidence enough of his direct rejection of God entirely.

>>10379046
>>10389303

Wow, the scene in which the Comanches fall upon and attack the Military unit the kid is with would not really be something I considered "corpse rape" as it could be read they(the ones being raped) scream for their fellows.


>Leaping from their mounts with knives and running about on the ground with a peculiar bandy-legged trot like creatures driven to alien forms of locomotion and stripping the cloths from the dead and seizing them up by the hair and passing their blades about the skulls of the living and the dead alike and snatching aloft the bloody wigs and hacking and chopping at the naked bodies, ripping off limbs, heads, gutting the strange white torsos and holding up the great handfuls of viscera, genitals, some of the savages so slathered up in gore they might have rolled in it like dogs and some who fell upon the dying and sodomized them with loud cries to their fellows.

This was common practice for the Indians at the time.
>bronze age savages raping their enemies

When you say
>The scene of the hunters killing people in a village and literally raping their corpses was retarded.

It's like you haven't read the book.

What a bored, bored little man you must be, to post here in a thread about a book you haven't read.

>>10387165
Why do you have a problem with violence in art?

>>10390009
No, the Indians are clearly the ones crying to their fellows, not the dead bodies. They're "sodomizing them with loud cries to their fellows." Those who sodomize and those who cry are the same.

>>10389313

The Judge openly talks about God. In his many monologues.

The priest the Judge gets killed by claiming he is a goat fucker. Calls the Judge out for what and who is.

>his direct rejection of God entirely.

Getting warmer.

>>10390944

You are arguing semantics at this point.

Can't say anything you liked about the book?

None of the reasons you gave were legitimate critiques.

>>10391059
I don't think I'm the person you think I am. I haven't talked to you up to this point, nor have I read the book. I'm just saying that your interpretation of that line is literally wrong, a misreading.

>>10390028
I don't. I just don't quite see the depth other people see in violence in BM. To me it's very shallow and the idea of its repetition doesn't really patch it up for me.

>>10391059
You've been proven wrong twice and yet you keep strawmanning. Please stop posting, you're embarrassing yourself.