/lit/ - Literature

>>10226253
t. Tom Cruise

>>10226376
lol no, have you read much of his work?

Unlikely given how prolific and mediocre he was a pulp writer. Mission Earth had the potential to be great.

If you bump this thread for long enough you will draw out a free thinker who despite only doing a few courses already thinks the Church leader is infallible and every single ex member who doesnt have glowing things to say about was either a plant or a hoaxer.

>>10226411
large if legitimate

>>10226253
t. moron

>>10226448
>stop liking what i dont like

i read dianetics. it's some bullshit. it tries to put your problems in this weird context where your problems can be explained away and solved by only shit a dense motherfucker would appreciate.

and no, his writing isn't awesome either.

bc aspects of life are ambiguous at best, drivel like hubbard's books will always exist.

>>10226253
>Irregardless
doing this on /lit/ should be punishable by death

>>10226253
bump

>>10226837
for all intensive purposes, posts like this are a diamond dozen anon.

>>10227011
Don't you have an appointment to get your ketones e-audited or something? Piss off.

>>10226411

Don't act like its not suspicious as fuck how none of the ex members have proof of their criticisms against the church. Every other critic is just parroting what they're told to think by those ex members. Their hatred is completely irrational.

>>10227312
It's not suspicious.

>>10227321

Because eye witness testimony is the pinnacle of evidence. No further investigation needed.

>>10227325
I know its been ten years but you're still not going to convince anyone on 4chan.

>>10227338

What are you talking about?

>>10226396
Funny enough, the Kindle version is on sale today.

http://amzn.com/B01B41I4NI

>>10226253
He was a trashy sci fi author, and wasn't very influential in literature at large.

Dianetics created a short-lived craze of people following his psycho-babble, and in fact that craze was one of the things that inspired him to start scientology.

>>10227508

How much of his fiction have you read?

>>10227516
Battlefield Earth, Mission Earth 1, and Typewriter in the Sky

>>10227522

What didn't you like about Battlefield Earth?

>>10227532
the bit with the battlefield and the bit with the earth

to be quite honest, L Ron Hubbard is possibly one of the greatest authors we will ever read, and i have read quite a few in my time.

>>10227695

You meme but if it weren't for Scientology that's how he would be regarded. Hubbard was the Stephen King of his time.

>>10227532
It's like The Iron Dream without the satire.

>>10227959
if you are not achieving major wins with Hubbard's tech then you must be doing something wrong.

>>10227522
>>10227011
>>10226411
>all these digits
there's definitely something going on in this thread

>>10228421
>trying to imitate chan speak this poorly

I got a free copy of Battlefield Earth after donating blood and now I'm worried that blood's going to some scientologist ritual.

Is it worth reading?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgZKF7Q_ORY

I actually really like this guy because hes a complete nutter. He reviews Battlefield Earth here and talks about how much truth is found within the book. I don't know if most people realize this but Scientologists don't think of Hubbard as a science fiction writer, they think his stories are actual events from his past lives. They think the universe is trillions of years old and that it's possible to recover memories of past lives so its not a crazy conclusion for them. Hubbard also said he never wrote a word of fiction.

>>10228444
It is if you're 13.

My tiny shitty town library has a full collection of Hubbard books, all neatly clean hardbacks as if no one's read them at all. Do Scientologists actually donate this stuff to libraries?

>>10228492

Probably not so much anymore but when the Basics first come out around 2007 people were pressured hardcore to buy multiple sets, if not for themselves then for donation purposes. That's why so many libraries have them.

>>10228473
umm sweetie, are you saying that you dont think that the universe is trillions of years old?

Why believe the universe is trillions of years old instead of eternal? I never understood that. Apparently thetans are eternal but the universe isn't.

>>10228552
>pointing out continuity errors
Hubbard didn't believe in writing second drafts.

>>10227312
The trouble you axiomatically reject any proof by virtue of them being ex members and the Churches leader being infallible.

Any documents they produce are faked, and any personal testimony that is not positive is a lie.

Imagine how the world would function if you tried to apply that same standard of yours to other areas like the justice system or history.

>>10228932

Well first of all, the testimony of ex Scientologists is not a proof of anything, it's evidence. It is evidence that should be held as suspect unless there is also corroborating data to support their claims. These ex Scientologists don't have any corroborating evidence, it's merely their word against the church.

Secondly they're incentivized to lie, distort, and mislead. Do you know any ex Scientologist that hasn't received some sort of compensation for "going public" about their so called experiences in Scientology? The answer is no. Even the small time anti-Scientologists on Youtube have Patreon accounts. The crazier their story the more attention they get. It's pure greed and people like you accept their word on faith.

I have the same standard of evidence as any civilized court of law. There's a reason they consider eyewitness testimony the weakest form of evidence. Try thinking critically for once in your life and ask yourself why you hate Scientology and what reasons you have. You won't have any good answers.

>>10229011
my buddy's mom has to go to therapy to deal with the abuse she suffered under the church in the 80s, she doesn't have a patreon account but she does have psychological issues from growing up in the church and essentially working as a slave for them

>>10229022

You say she has psychological problems now, but how do you know she didn't have them before? How do you know her perception of reality is accurate?

>>10229026
her psychological problem was due to physical abuse and being ostracized by her family, who were scientologists, because she wanted to leave

if you want to play the "How do you know her perception of reality is accurate" game, the same applies to current church member testimony, btw Hubbard and his successors were and are trained Hypnotists

>>10229039

Well I have to admit, you've shaken my world with this bomshell proof that Scientology is evil. Let me lay it out in case anyone is paying attention.

>Anonymous user on the internet claims to have a mom who was abused by Scientology.

BOOM. Scientology is done. Sue them and take them to the cleaners. The evidence is undeniable and irrefutable.

>>10229069
I'm not sure if she sought legal recourse, but I am legitimately concerned for anyone in Scientology, or any other religion that charges you large sums of money or tells your not to question it, I'm not making this shit up for fun or because some anti-scientologist conspiracy is paying me on a Saturday night to talk about it

>>10229101

Most anti=Scientologists aren't getting paid, they're merely parrots who don't question what they believe. Why do you believe that Scientology tells people not to question anything? You don't know the answer to that because they don't. They encourage questions and you get exactly what you pay for. You don't have to buy anything in Scientology, in fact they have many programs to assist people in paying. The only people that pay large amounts of money for services do so because they can afford it, and that money in turn enables the church to provide services for everyone else. You can get to OT8 and not pay a single dime. You wouldn't know that because you've never questioned it. Your concerns are unfounded.

>>10229132
>Why do you believe that Scientology tells people not to question anything?

another scientologist from the last thread essentially said Hubbard and the Church are infalliable, but I guess that's another rando on the internet right?

I've just never seen another religion on the internet that was so aggressively defensive, other than maybe Islam, I remember back during project chanology teenager trolls were getting death threats and insider testimony providers in Florida were getting stalked by people with sunglasses and taperecorders, but I guess I'm just hallucinating that or hundreds of people are collectively making a narrative up

>>10229157

I was that Scientologist and you either can't read properly or you're intentionally taking what I said out of context. I was answering the question of whether or not I would consider David Miscavige infallible when it comes to whether or not the tech is correct as Hubbard created it. I'm sure it's a real wonder why Scientologists get defensive when this is the level of discourse.

Even if I wasn't that guy, you're only reason for believing that Scientology tells people not to question things is that some random guy on the internet said so? You're really setting the bar high.

>>10229011
Can you tell me what evidence specifically you would accept with regards to claims against the truthfulness of Scientology *and or* the function of its leadership?


>These ex Scientologists don't have any corroborating evidence, it's merely their word against the church.

The fact that its plural (ex Scientologist(s)) provides corroboration all the more so when you have people from different levels - high and low.

To see it on the flip side many of Scientologies claims are only corroborated through wittiness testimony alone yet you accept them.

>Secondly they're incentivized to lie, distort, and mislead.

Incentive =/= automatically do. David Miscavige has an incentive to spend money on routing more bodies and getting Sea Org Members up the bridge instead of on a multi million dollar mansion and 50 million on an unused Movie Studio.

>Do you know any ex Scientologist that hasn't received some sort of compensation for "going public" about their so called experiences in Scientology?

John McMaster - One of the first ever Clears
Nick Lister
The various Free Zone Scientologists


>Even the small time anti-Scientologists on Youtube have Patreon accounts

Which didnt exist prior to the mid 2010s.

>It's pure greed
Its a pretty inefficient way of making money. Its kind of like saying that we should never believe the word of any journalist or book writer as they have a financial interest.

Again to flip your logic what would you think of the person who says the words of Scientologists can never be trusted as they have a vested interest in system of thought they have invested money and time in being true?

>you accept their word on faith.
Not in isolation, remember when I linked you the evidence of those clinical trials regarding arthritis not being caused by psychosomatic factors and of engrams not being generated in unconscious people?

Or how about those court cases and the documents from them which showed evidence of Scientologists acting illegally on orders from their executives to subvert the United States Taxation Office and to get critics institutionalised?

>I have the same standard of evidence as any civilized court of law.

Do courts accept individuals and teachings as being infallible based on a judicial officer experiencing a positive effect during a handful of therapy sessions?

> weakest form of evidence

But it is still evidence and a critical part of the justice system. You speak as if they reject all oral testimony out of hand.

>You won't have any good answers.

Its not the answer you are hoping for but I genuinely don't hate the teachings or Scientologists individually. All I am doing is seeing the evidence that's available from personal testimonies, court documents, scientific experiments and books by those inside and outside the group and figuring that on the balance the claims made in DMSMH are not true and that its a bigger act of faith to reject claims about its oranisational culture.

>>10229252

I don't read posts when they do that autistic greentext shit.

>>10229199
so you are that guy? aren't you the same guy that's spent over a $1,000 on this religion in a single year and yet you claim you can achieve OT8 without spending a single penny?

>I'm sure it's a real wonder why Scientologists get defensive

arguing on the internet is one thing, stalking people around their homes and workplaces when they leave the religion is another, btw this kind of thing isn't exclusive to scientology, I also know a friend who left jehovahs witnesses and had similar nasty things surrounding his life at the time

>>10229266

Explain to me how my spending money necessarily means that everyone has to spend money. You can't because me spending money while claiming that there are paths within the church where you don't have to is not the contradiction you wish it to be.

>>10229281
because you're the only one who truly knows whether on not you're spending money, you don't know if you've been lied to about others not spending money, perhaps they had to labor for the church which is the equivalent of giving them their money, anywho it's clear that scientology is bullshit because you truly had this boards interest in mind, instead of wasting your time defending scientology against a naysayer like me perhaps you'd be trying to explain techniques from scientology, Buddhism or Christianity doesn't charge money for learning their techniques you can go online and learn from thousands of years of theology and metaphysics instead of paying for books from a single authorized publisher

>>10229252
Forgive me I forgot that you dont like to respond to green text posts.

My question to you as a critical thinker - Can you tell me what evidence specifically you would accept with regards to claims against the truthfulness of Scientology *and or* the function of its leadership?

When you discuss corroborating evidence you kind of contradict yourself as the amount of testimonies act to corroborate. Its for the same reason you can value the testimonies of Scientologists about the effectiveness of its teachings. The next point you get onto is that you think incentive means automatically do. David Miscavige has an incentive to spend money on routing more bodies and getting Sea Org Members up the bridge instead of on a multi million dollar mansion and 50 million on an unused Movie Studio yet he has. To use a less heated example Christians have an incentive to go to Church but many do not. Next you asked for a list even one person who received no financial benefit as an ex, here you go:

1.John McMaster - One of the first ever Clears
2.Nick Lister
3.The various Free Zone Scientologists

The next point I would like you to consider is that should -If I follow your logic- say that Scientologists would be incentivized to lie, distort, and mislead about problems in their church and teachings because of their vested interest in not getting shunned and giving up on the time and money invested? As for pure greed pateron only came into existence and handful of years ago and being anti Scientology isnt all that lucrative for the overwhelming majority of ex members. Likewise should I think every journalist is a liar as they want to sell newspapers?

Next you accuse me of only accepting their testimonies on faith alone. This doesnt bear scrutiny as my points are not only based on corroboration but and here is the important part not looking at them in isolation. remember when I linked you the evidence of those clinical trials regarding arthritis not being caused by psychosomatic factors and of engrams not being generated in unconscious people? Or how about those court cases and the documents from them which showed evidence of Scientologists acting illegally on orders from their executives to subvert the United States Taxation Office and to get critics institutionalised?

Testimonies are only part of the larger understanding of it and indeed when it comes to those other factors particularly the tests it starts reaching a point where it takes more faith to reject them. Remember testimonies are not the best evidence but they are still evidence and are a critical part of the justice system.

(1/2)

>>10229327
To end I genuinely don't hate the teachings or Scientologists individually (and I would be curious as to what evidence or proof I would need to provide you to convince you of that).

All I am doing is seeing the evidence that's available from personal testimonies, court documents, scientific experiments and books by those inside and outside the group and figuring that on the balance the claims made in DMSMH are not true and that its a bigger act of faith to reject claims about its oranisational culture than to accept them.

2/2

I enjoyed Battlefield Earth, sorry guys.

>>10229308

What if the moon was made of cheese and what if Hitler survived the war and assassinated JFK? I can ask rhetorically leading questions too but the fact that I'm proposing them isn't evidence or reason to believe they're true. If you want to claim that Hitler assassinated JFK you would need to provide evidence or a good reason to believe its true. Likewise if you want to claim that its impossible to progress in Scientology without money then you need to provide evidence or a reason to believe its true. Go to a church and ask for them for policy letters concerning payments and pricing if you want to know how it actually works.

>>10229327

Its the same exact post. Rewrite it and I may give you the time of day.

>>10226253
Battlefield Earth was silly pulp that went on for way too long. LRH was a reasonably talented SF hack but there's really not much reason to read him, there were better pulp writers.

>>10229339
Its not the same post, I rearranged it and added new material to ensure that it would flow as prose. Or do you mean to say that you wont respond to any of the information in it because it was previously in a green text format?

>>10229359

Yeah I noticed that after I posted. Either way I'm not interested in getting into a ten point conversation. You may have noticed that most of my replies in the thread have been fairly short, that's because I'm exhausted. If you want to ask me one question at a time I'll be happy to answer as best I can.

>>10229378
I understand, you see the trouble I have is that in posts like >>10229011 you kind of shot gun me with 10 different accusations/claims/requests many of which are intertwined so responding to them honestly and without trickery is hard to do. As ive stated earlier I genuinely don't hate or hold any grudge against the Church or its members

With that said Ill save that stuff away for another time/thread

My single question -

"Can you tell me what evidence specifically you would accept with regards to claims against the truthfulness of Scientology *and or* the function of its leadership?"

>>10229410

I don't think there is any evidence that can dissuade me from believing that the tech doesn't work because I've experienced it working first hand. All of the tech is built on the same axioms that have proven true for me and many others, so if it works in one area it will also work in others.

As far as leadership goes they're just individuals. I would need more than hearsay to becomes convinced that they're lying but I wouldn't need any more evidence to prove anyone else is a liar. Them being leaders doesn't make them above reproach. However much evidence it would take to convince me that a stranger is lying about something is however much evidence it would take to convince me that Scientology leadership is lying about something. I don't have different standards for these people.

>>10229453
With the tech working how do you go about solidly establishing causation? For instance a lot of Yoga and Meditation techniques can bring benefits not due to influence by Devas or Charkras but simply physiology.

With the leadership then what kind of impact do things like court transcripts have or more deductive type proofs like David Miscavige's use of limited Church funds. For me these were two rather important factors. The first showed extensive co-ordination for hostile ends the latter demonstrated the actions that could only be one of three things - the pure greed you spoke of, a man insanely stupid and foolish or a man sent to destroy the group.

You have these bizzare issues where technological simple devices like E meters are crazily expensive and theres never enough money for getting Sea Org members up the bridge or active marketing + charity but there's millions to spend on the leaders home and fancy buildings (which don't actually boost member numbers) whilst reges put huge pressure people to give donations to the IAS

Related to your approach how would you deal with non violent rape cases?

>>10229453
the tech isn't the e-meter, the tech is word association, hypnosis, and sitting trance, your body is put into a trance state by sitting in one place for a long time and looking at another person, none of that is exclusive to Scientology and it's tragic that you've paid over a thousand dollars for techniques freely available on the internet, look into self-hypnosis

>>10226396
I loved that book.
<spoiler> when I was 14 </spoiler>

>>10228537
It's not trillions of years old you absolute moron.

>>10228473
Oh man didnt think there would be a another person here who watched Andy, I was going to use him as an example of an ex scientologist who earns no money from it

I love how the guy in this thread just confirms every negative perception of Scientologists. Or I guess he doesn't because as he said he's just some Anonymous poster so nothing he says has any weight. Wait-

what was his mission earth series like?

>>10230013

What are these negative perceptions?

To be honest the anti-Scientology crowd is as much of a cult as Scientology is, at least when it comes to thought stopping cliches. They don't question their dislike and they accept things with very shoddy evidence. If you ask them to provide reasons to believe the things they do they'll attack you as if they're a Scientologist. They hurt their cause by making radical claims like everyone in Scientology is brainwashed or they'll say that absolutely nothing about Scientology is useful. They don't know anything about any of the books that Hubbard is wrote, fiction or otherwise, they haven't read anything but they KNOW it's all bad. It's a level of intellectual dishonesty that we would never accept when it comes to any other subject.

>>10230619
>this
and why do you have them?
If you haven't read any of Hubbard's work and only know about scientology what you have seen on south park and YouTube then how are you qualified to pass judgement on people?

>>10226253
>irregardless

illiterate peasant.

>>10230339
pretty awesome to be quite honest family

>>10231159
dude if you've never been to australia how do you know it has kangaroos and deserts and shit lmao

>>10231444
well using your example, you can see pictures and videos of kangaroos and deserts but you would still have no idea what they were like in reality.
If you really want to be able to criticise something, you must learn it.

>>10231444

I can look at videos and pictures or DNA to corroborate the witness testimony of kangaroos existence in Australia. None of us are just taking somebodies word for it which is what people are doing when it comes to Scientology.

>>10231497
correct, people who do not actually know about scientology are criticising it.

>>10231497
>>10231534
likewise you're making the claim that the hundreds/thousands of people making abusive claims about the church are simply lying for attention or insincere purposes

whatever dude, keep wasting your money and time on this cult, if you ever feel doing it yourself instead of being spoon fed and slowly hypnotized by a nefarious organization, you could learn about self-hypnotism and actually attempt meditation without requiring someone to manipulate you

>>10231580

I haven't made any claims. I've only asked why people believe the things they do and I criticized them for accepting things for no reason when they inevitably fail to answer. I'm not the Scientologist you're referring to and you have no rational reason to think I am. You want me to be a Scientologist so you can justify dismissing my criticism out of hand.

>>10231716
>I'm not the Scientologist you're referring to
you are A scientologist though because nobody else cares about your silly cult enough to bother giving it the benefit of the doubt, even if all those thousands of people are lying for no reason at all.

>scientologists have shills on 4chins
This shit runs deep my nigga. Do have a shitposting division that just monitors the internet all day?

>>10231716 #
>I'm not the Catholic you're referring to
>you are A Catholic though because nobody else cares about your silly cult enough to bother giving it the benefit of the doubt, even if all those thousands of people are lying for no reason at all.

really makes you think

>>10231770
I suspect actual thinking is beyond you.

>>10231737

This is what's called a thought stopping cliche. If you label me a Scientologist that means you don't have to respond to what I say in an intelligent way.

>>10231780
Again, I don't care because it's stupid and irrelevant. Fight me irl

>>10231789

If you don't care then why are you replying?

>>10231797
I like arguing

>>10231801

If so then why don't you actually argue instead of plugging your ears and telling everyone you don't care?

>>10231809
Because these arguments have been had a million times before and it's of no benefit to put any real effort in. You're retarded, that is clear.

>>10231816

You may be the first lover of arguments that refused to engage in arguments that I've ever met.

>>10231809
>this
>>10231789
>stop liking what i dont like

>>10231822
I don't like to cast pearls before swine and yes that is a euphemism.

>>10231830

A euphemism is when you substitute a term with another typically vaguer term. What that actually is, is a thought stopping cliche.

>>10231830
>i have no winning arguments: the post

>>10231838
Is the phrase "thought stopping cliche" something they teach you on your courses? Maybe I was being too subtle but I was referring to masturbating myself to ejaculation in front of the mother you're no longer allowed to contact.

>>10231839
>winning arguments
>on 4chan

Hey Scientologist guy, you never answered my question about osteoarthritis in the last thread, how can your tech stop and indeed reverse the deterioration of cartilage in the aging body? Bearing in mind the nervous system cannot prevent the effects of physical wear on your body as you previously stated.

>>10231851

The phrase "thought stopping cliche" was popularized by the psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton. Just in case you're not aware, Scientologists don't get along with psychiatrists. I use the term both because it's useful to describe a behavior that you're exhibiting and because I'm not a Scientologist.

>>10231867
>I-I-I'm totally not a scientologist guize! Look I even memorised a phrase from a psychologist, that's PROOF
nigga

>>10231876

I'm starting to think you're a Scientologist that is only pretending to be a retarded anti-Scientologist in order to make them look bad.

They opened their European hub in Ireland there this year near me in Ireland, a massive private sprawling multi million euro site. And there's 87 Scientologists here on the whole island, that's less than the folk who attend my local villiage Sunday mass

>>10231884
Starting to think would be a first for you.

>>10231891

BOOM GOT'EM

>>10231890

this is a lie there are over 100,000 scientologists in Ireland and over a billion worldwide

>>10231890
the clue is in the name my man, its tobe their European hub, like an airport.
How many people in Heathrow at any given time do you suppose live there?

Is /lit/ a Scientologist board now?

>>10231716
>>10231159
>>10230704
Well If it interests you Ive raised issues with its teachings and leadership beyond single testimonies and they were not dealt with in the following posts

>>10229327
>>10229330
>>10229515

Also in >>10229252 but thats just a greentext version as the Scientologist refuses to engage with green text posts.

>>10231912
>this is a lie there are over 100,000 scientologists in Ireland and over a billion worldwide

Source and by what measure? Is that figure based on every person who has ever brought a book or who ever receives a service or is it based on people who identity and currently practice and receive those services.

I ask as because your claims seem to contradict the latest census data as of 2016 only 87 people identified as Scientologists (source bellow) If your claim were correct Scientology would be the third largest religion in the country and that 99.91% of Scientologists chose not to state they were one in the Census.
Doesn't that seem to stretch credulity a bit?

http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/SelectVarVal/saveselections.asp


http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/population/2017/Chapter_8_Religion.pdf

>>10231716
>>10231159
>>10230704
Well If it interests you Ive raised multiple issues with its teachings and leadership beyond isolated testimonies from ex members and they were not dealt with in the following posts

>>10229327 (You)
>>10229330 (You)
>>10229515 (You)

Also in >>10229252 (You) but thats just a greentext version as the Scientologist refuses to engage with green text posts.

>>10231912
>this is a lie there are over 100,000 Scientologists in Ireland and over a billion worldwide

Source and by what measure? Is that figure based on every person who has ever brought a book or who ever receives a service or is it based on people who identity and currently practice and receive those services.

I ask as because your claims seem to contradict the latest census data as of 2016 where only 87 people identified as Scientologists (source below) If your claim were correct Scientology would be the third largest religion in the country and that 99.91% of Scientologists chose not to state they were one in the Census.
Doesn't that seem to stretch credulity a bit?

http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/SelectVarVal/saveselections.asp

>>10232782
>Well If it interests you Ive raised multiple issues with its teachings and leadership beyond isolated testimonies from ex members and they were not dealt with in the following posts

I'm not a Scientologist so why I would I be able to answer your questions? Also the guy talking about 100,000 Scientologists was obviously joking. Don't be a sperg.

>>10232844
The point was to show, that there are decent and non meme objections to it but that they are ignored in favor of focusing on the dodgy ones. As for the numbers you would be surprised at the kind of figures that get throw around. So its hard to tell when the difference between someone the genuine and the joking especially when you have a group with such a bunker mentality.

>>10232881

Do you want me to pat you on the head or what?

>>10232894
Nah your posts have been on point 100%

>>10228444
Did they need virgin blood?

>>10227312
>>10227325
>>10227389
Hello seaorg!

>>10233416

Sup

>>10232782
well why does anyone believe anything, god, buddha, satan etc etc?
you are really just making yourself look like a bigot.
Again i ask you, how are you qualified to pass judgement on people's beliefs?
Does watching south park and some poorly made youtube videos make you an expert all of a sudden?

>>10232373
An airport hub experiences large through fare, the ideal org building in Ireland does not. Most of Scientology's massive sites remain largely unused

>>10234070
according to whom?

>>10234059
They believe in those figures because they find the evidence for their claims about reality convincing. Just as those who don't believe their claims find other explanations and evidence more convincing.

How would you respond in the following situation:

Hubbard and the Dianetic Research Foundation claimed to have demonstrated the existence of engrams in a clinical setting (pic related). However not only have they not provided these studies when studies were carried out by these groups in 1959 they got a negative result.

Is it bigoted to accept this evidence or is it bigoted to reject it?

See
"An Experimental Investigation of Hubbard's Engram Hypothesis (Dianetics)" By Fox


Pic related is DMSMH page 51.

Are you guys crazy , what is going on in this thread, discussing Scientology as it were a legit religion/enlightenment practice/moral code. I thought it was already clear to everyone besides those wrapped deeply into its ranks that the whole thing is basically a business model and a huge fonzi sceme.
I seriously don't get where you find the imagination to consider this LRH guy (some third rate sci-fi writer and con artist) as valid choice for a liestyle guide.
Its not rocket science to come to the conclusion why brainless rich celebrities are digging this shit. As any other fashionable isoteric hobby Scientology also baits the rich and the dumb.
What is there to discuss? The numerous court cases involved woth his so called church? The standard cult like hierarchy and manner of "progression"? Their idiotic religious believes? The fact that those with some standing within the organisation occupy themselves solely learning new ways to defrend the cult with empty rhetoric?

... But Why not give a "new religion" a fair chance?.... Pff come on..put the religion sticker to every non mainstream lifestyle and you've made it immune to criticism...

>>10226253
>As one of the most published authors known the man
What the fuck

>>10234265
Any guesses why could that be?

>>10234294
>[citation needed]

>>10234250
>anti-scientological canard

I really hope this book gets memed into frequent discussion like Culture of Critique did.

This thread is so hilarious.

Of course Scientology is a legitimate religion and a respected system of spiritual beliefs, the only problems they uave ever had were due to individuals who have allowed their own aberrations to lead them astray.
All of these individuals are guilty of some crimes or other if you scratch beneath the surface, be it sex crime, tax avoision, robbery and so on.
Another thing that all "critics" have in common is that they are compulsive liars and bigots.
I hope that one day they can see the light and try to save themselves and the planet.

>>10234110
>they believe
>they believe
>they believe
unless you are a scientologist, how do you know what they beleive?
And no, one or two out of context paragraphs from the internet don't make you an expert, nor does south park or YouTube.

>>10234250
im going to play doubles advocate here and say what if it is a religion?

>>10234901
It's religion for its own sake , it doesn't "teach" you anything. There is no substance.
It's stupid.
It parodically contains the word "science" in its name.
Should have just be made as a (secret) society, but who then would have taken the role of fueling the whole thing with tons of cash if there weren't masses dumb idiots who fell for the cult

>>10234985
But not giving every cult equal credence as a potentially legitimate system of thought is a thought stopping cliché! By not joining and paying your way to reaching the very highest level and secrets it's privy to, you can never truly judge if it's bullshit, refusal to do so is a thought stopping cliché! Not that this applies to any other systems of thought or religion, just do this one! I definitely have no vested interest in it myself, I'm definitely not a Scientologist, you can tell because I said so, anonymously and repeat obscure key phrases like "thought stopping cliché". I just think you should try it for purely intellectually honest reasons, not to give it every chance would be a thought stopping cliché.

>>10235011
Im going to answer you but i need to catch my train first

>>10235031
Catching trains is a thought-stopping cliché.

>>10234250

You don't understand it because you're a pleb. Scientology is for making the best of us better.

>>10235011

Imagine being this frustrated at being called out for your dumb unjustified beliefs that you're ranting about it the next day

>>10235106
Your post is a thought stopping cliche

>>10235115
*You're

>>10230339
>what was his mission earth series like?
>>10231398
>pretty awesome to be quite honest family
My bff listened to the entire thing when we were kids and read it again recently. He said the politics and plot were hilarious but still entertaining, as in lesbians just need a rape-y skilled cocksman and faggots will turn completely for a good pussy. I always find RAPE 'EM STRAIGHT (or out of frigidity) books point out how silly sexuality is, total troll by Nature and we fall for it.
Amy_Adams_Philip_Seymour_Hoffman.handjob_scene.plist

Somebody should start a Dianetics reading group. We've got some aberrations to work out.

>>10234985
sure, but you could say that about literally every religion.
What's your point?

>>10234985

If your intention is to discourage people from becoming a Scientologist your rhetoric is counter productive because there are actually good and useful things within Scientology, and all somebody has to do in order to refute and dismiss the things you say is to find only one of them.

>>10236287
If your intention is to discourage people from eating a turd your rhetoric is counter productive because there are actually nutritious undigested nuts within the turd, and all somebody has to do in order to refute and dismiss the things you say is to find only one of them.

>>10236287
>this
you are just coming across as a whiny teenager that's trying too hard to be edgy.

>>10236295

If I were trying to discourage people from eating shit I wouldn't make the wild claim that there is absolutely no nutritional value to be found within the turd because that wouldn't be true. Some vitamins and nutrients do end up in the turd. Instead I might bring up how bad it tastes or the likelihood that it would cause illness if eaten. Likewise if I were trying to discourage people from joining Scientology I wouldn't make radical and easily refutable claims because that hurts my case, instead I would talk about the negatives effects of "eating" such a philosophy.

>>10236305

When you say edgy what exactly do you mean by it? I'm only asking because you're not using that word in a typical way.

>>10236312
At least we agree that Scientology is faeces.

>>10236322

You don't agree that making radical and easily refutable claims hurt the cause of discouraging people from joining Scientology?

>>10234901
>Doubles advocate

>>10236328
No, they wouldn't be considering joining you in the first place if they were capable of critical thinking.

>>10236318
>ohh look at me im making fun of people's religion
>do i fit in yet guys?
>if i wear a guy fawkes mask am i in anonymous?
>battletoads amirite? we is leejun

>>10236339
>I'm shilling Scientology on 4chan using a dossier compiled ten years ago

>>10236339

You're on some shit because I haven't made fun of any religion.

>>10236351
oh right, the guy you were quoting, sorry.

>>10234800
Have you been a member of every religion? If not, how did you settle on Scientology? I mean, if you haven't actually been a Christian/Muslim/Buddhist/Jew/Hindu you couldn't possibly know anything about the religions you're rejecting.

>>10236477
it doesn't matter. all religions claim to be revealed truth, but only in scientology do you need to pay tens of thousands before you get the "real shit" aka xenu stories.

>>10236477
No, but then I'm not a scientologist either.

what is the role of women in scientology? is it that of the traditional, stay-at-home mom? or are they more open to modern, feminism? asking for a freind

>>10234800
>unless you are a scientologist, how do you know what they believe?

The same way Scientologists do, I read their books + publications and talk to Scientology staff members at the local church. Can you point to anything I have said that is incorrect? I never claimed to be an expert and it doesnt make much sense to claim that only an expert can talk about Dianetics

As for those paragraphs can you show me how they are out of context or what errors I made with them? You can access DMSMH online easily to verify

Better yet take a look at their official website on the matter which affirms the position I stated in those quotes -

Engrams

"This is an example of an engram: A woman is knocked down by a blow to the face. She is rendered “unconscious.” She is kicked in the side and told she is a faker, that she is no good, that she is always changing her mind. A chair is overturned in the process. A faucet is running in the kitchen. A car is passing in the street outside."

http://www.scientology.org/what-is-dianetics/basic-principles-of-scientology/engrams.html#slide3

And how Dianetics makes these engrams known to the person

"Furthermore, these techniques make these formerly hidden memories available to the individual as memory in the analytical mind."

http://www.scientology.org/what-is-dianetics/basic-principles-of-scientology/the-solution-to-the-reactive-mind.html#slide2

>>10236719
>The same way Scientologists do, I read their books + publications and talk to Scientology staff members at the local church.
Why do so many Scientologists claim to simply be "interested in the teachings"? I suppose it's an easy way to coerce dumb people into dipping their toe into the pool of """"enlightenment"""".

>>10236736
>Why do so many Scientologists claim to simply be "interested in the teachings"?
Well for the genuine ones its because it can be embarrassing or confronting to say they are publicly. For the disingenuous it gives the advantage of being able to criticise others whilst not actually having to defend, justify or even define concepts used by the Church.

>I suppose it's an easy way to coerce dumb people into dipping their toe into the pool of """"enlightenment"""".
Its not about coercion, Scientology is fundamentally a gnostic religion that is designed to gradually lead and prepare people to receive higher teachings incrementally with each stage bringing higher cash burdens and accept more mystical material.

An interesting comparison is with the Mormons who have a concept of "milk before meat" whereby the less Christian elements (such as celestial polygamy, Satan being Jesus's brother and becoming a God of your own planet which you populate with your spirit babies) are introduced gradually.

In both instances its like the allegorical frog in the boiling water

>>10236669
bumping for an answer to this

>>10226396
The alien circuits were actually interesting.

>>10232782
I give the guy credit for using the plural of datum correctly.

I just bought a copy of Fear. It was 99 cents at Goodwill. I'll probably never read it.

>>10238019
From what Ive gathered there isnt a specific role, Thetans are genderless. Likewise the most important action a person takes over all other things is advancing up the bridge to total spiritual freedom with other Scientologists. As long as having kids doesn't get in the way of that or you dont make your money in psychiatry they arent going to have many problems with you.

That said having abortions is heavily frowned upon(although there have been reports of coerced abortions in Sea Org members), and Scientologists were one of the early proponents of silent birthing.

That aside the only formal sexism in it is stuff like not using gender neutral language. Informally you might see some cultural hangovers from members who grew up in sexist times but thats minimal. Women throughout the Churches history have played important roles (legal and illegal).

>>10238126
are girls really expected to restrict themselves to one guy or are they allowed to have a little fun?

>>10238140
Cant give you a 100% sure answer although this a publication from the Church

http://www.thewaytohappiness.org/thewaytohappiness/precepts/dont-be-promiscuous.html

>>10234789
>implying its a tax avoision scheme

>>10234789
>>10238542
>avoision

>>10226253
> i am surprised that he is not mentioned more often here

It's because his writing fucking sucks and scientology is one of the world's leading scams. Sorry, OP, but we only discuss literature here.

>>10238645
>It's because his writing fucking sucks
except that it was good enough to literally sell millions and millions of books and put him in the Guinness book of records.
It's okay if you can't understand his work or just don't like it but LRH is actually a literary genius to be quite honest senpai.

>>10238601
i love how hot all the scientology grills are

Why do Jews fear Scientology? Is it because of the Tom Cruise warrior?

>>10238686
Yes.

I love Hubbard's work but it would be sheer folly to turn a blonde eye to some of the issues that the church has had. If they can sort out there internal issues then they will be stronger than ever before

>>10236312

Moderate Scientologist here.

Dianetics is a highly metaphorical book, and reading it literally will lead you to all sorts of trouble. Just keep that in mind

>>10238783
i hole-hardily agree, but at leased you confront realty.

>>10238783
What level of the grade chart are you on?

>>10238811
Thanks for the chart.

>>10238790
lol

>>10238844
>>10238811
nice dubdubs nice

>>10238750

The only problems the church has is the constant attacks by the psychs. They are dedicated to destroying everything good and they're very skilled in getting people to stop thinking.

Anyone ever wonder why getting SSRI medication is so easy? They hand it out like candy. Go into a psychiatrists office and you're garanteed to walk out with at least one brain altering medication no matter what..

But Scientology auditing though, that's the real dangerous stuff, amirite?

>>10238783
hey bud,
What's a moderate scientologist? like, do you only believe some of it?

>>10239129
this guy actually has a really solid point, how can you refute that?
What's better, a chemically induced lobotomy, or a bit of wacky alternative therapy/ religion?
When you put it like this, it's hard to see why these guys get such a hard time from normies.
Maybe the (((psychs))) have got the (((media))) getting normies to believe everything they are told about scientology.

>>10239752

They're still electrocuting people too. Just like old times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcQwsq-PKCg

>>10239758
well that's no good.
what can be done to stop this? Forgetting scientology, its a crime against human rights.

>>10240100

The fix is to throw it all out and replace it with the humane and ethical practices found within Scientology.

>>10226253
I'm currently in the process of reading everything Hubbard wrote. He's a god damned genius.

>>10227312
But there's proof of multiple shitty things they've done like the false reports against IRS members. Then there's the fact they're totally opaque so when someone says "my relative called me and said the church is beating them and starving them" police can't actually check or get into the necessary buildings.
You're using the same argument people used to discredit people speaking out against Weinstein or mkultra during the 80's.
One massive organization has the power to make a small group look crazy.

>>10240212
>everything
Fuck that's a task

>Irregardless

>>10226253
>Irregardless
I'm not a native speaker and this shit always makes me cringe.

>>10229069
God, you're a stupid piece of shit.

You're the kind of stupid piece of shit that throws around the words "evidence, burden of proof", etc. without really understanding them.

>hurr durr your anonymous anecdote isn't valid so scientology is surely good even though there are hundreds of testimonies and the entire cult is shady as fuck

An arrogant, stupid piece of shit. The worst kind.

>>10240410
There have been one or two genuine Scientologists in this thread but trolls have picked it up and run with it, posting dianetics in every other thread. Just ignore them or troll them back.

>>10240410

Hundreds of unverifiable testimonies? Scientology BTFO. Hundreds of people are witness to Jesus' resurrection. I wonder why this isn't considered conclusive proof.

You don't HAVE to give money to a pyramid scheme, it's your choice! It's your own free will!

In that case, *deposits all my money* into pyramid scheme.

>>10240497

How would somebody choosing to give money to it mean you have to give money to it?

Aside from that how is Scientology a pyramid scheme? I feel like people are misusing the term because while Scientology could be called many things, pyramid scheme doesn't apply at all unless you're using such a loose definition that it would also include any sort of salesmen. Go ahead and call me a Scientologist now.

>>10240526
>Aside from that how is Scientology a pyramid scheme?
Not that anon you are correct its not a pyramid scheme like amway or that health shake company but they do have a few systems which seem close. The first is where members get a cut of every persons fees you get signed up to a service (which given how expensive services are is srs business). The second is by making some of the intermediate services expensive but offering a discount if they provide that service to another learner at their level ie instead of getting it from the staff the two learners figure it out by doing it on each other.

All that said and done their system is more like a line with all money going straight to one man at the top who gets to live in a multi-million dollar estate whilst the clergy get paid around 50 dollars a week.

>>10240526
With classic pyramid schemes and dodgy investments, the way salesmen usually get people roped in is by empowering them. They feel like they're exercising their own free will, ironically in the same moment they are being manipulated to give their money to the salesman.

It's not that you HAVE to, it's that by maximising the feeling of choice it makes it more likely you'll "choose" to do what the salesman wants. By making it not NECESSARY for people to pay to advance in Scientology, it makes it more likely that a greater number of people will actually sign up and "CHOOSE" to donate, knowing that its just "up to them".

>>10240580

What you're describing is a regular everyday salesmen. They work on commission, which is a cut of every product they sell and in many cases salesmen will get a discount if they move a lot of product. As far as money going to the top you're describing any business owner or CEO.

You may as well complain that the pope lives in the Vatican while some clergy live in Ohio.

>>10240604

So Scientology is a pyramid scheme because they make people feel empowered in order to sell them things? What a bunch of nonsense.

>>10240624
the pyramid part is that the salesmen have to pay to get in, i.e. you buy a service and make your money BACK by selling it to others. It's combining the risk of entrepreneurship without the mobility or autonomy.

>>10240624
>What you're describing is a regular everyday salesmen. They work on commission, which is a cut of every product they sell and in many cases salesmen will get a discount if they move a lot of product. As far as money going to the top you're describing any business owner or CEO.
Which is why they often run into controversy over their religious status.

>You may as well complain that the pope lives in the Vatican while some clergy live in Ohio.
Does the clergyman in Ohio only get payed 2600 a year?

>>10240638

You don't have to pay to go on staff or to join the sea org. The people who are selling services in Scientology are not entrepreneurs in any way. They're not taking financial responsibility for unsold services.

>>10240645

I don't know what the clergy in Ohio get paid. Why does it matter?

>>10240694
>I don't know what the clergy in Ohio get paid. Why does it matter?
They get payed between 33-44K on average. I matters because the Scientology Clergy wages are well and needlessly below the poverty line(to put in perspective the Walmart Greeter on minimum wage earns close to 6 times that much - and thats assuming they only work 40 hour weeks) .

What this means is that it erodes any financial independence. It becomes all the more questionable when you consider the vast amount of wealth the Church holds in pure liquid assets. Indeed just recently they had 50 million dollars to buy some land with an old studio and just a few weeks ago they tired to buy an aquarium for 15 million dollars. All of this money but nothing for clergy.

>>10240752
And what this all does is indicate the Churches priorities.

>>10240752

I could point out that you're comparing apples and oranges, that instead of comparing the pay of Sea Org members and Catholic priests, you should instead be comparing the pay of Sea Org members and Catholic monks since those two groups live more comparable lives. But instead of getting bogged down in that, I would like you to do what I originally asked, which is to bring it back to the topic at hand. How does the amount of money people in the Sea Org get paid make Scientology a pyramid scheme?

>>10240773
>I could point out that you're comparing apples and oranges, that instead of comparing the pay of Sea Org members and Catholic priests, you should instead be comparing the pay of Sea Org members and Catholic monks since those two groups live more comparable lives

Sea Org members live communally and dont have much money but thats where the similarities end. The Sea Org members play an extremely active role in the administration and provision of services.

>how does the amount of money people in the Sea Org get paid make Scientology a pyramid scheme?

I already answered this in >>10240580 reread the first and last sentences.

>>10240624
>So Scientology is a pyramid scheme because they make people feel empowered in order to sell them things?
No, scientiology is LIKE a pyramid scheme AND they make people feel empowered in order to sell them things.
>what a bunch of nonsense.
Not an argument.

>>10240816
>Sea Org members live communally and dont have much money but thats where the similarities end

Wouldn't it make more sense to compare the pay of priests to the Scientology staff members who get paid at least minimum wage and are given incentives in the form of free services, which can add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars. There are monks that are involved in administration and the Church relies entirely on the free of labor of nuns when it comes to the Eucharist production, which is the bread they give out at mass. They don't receive any pay so I don't understand why you're holding them to a different standard.

>>10240833

Okay so when you say that something IS you actually mean "kinda sorta." Got it.

>>10240845
Before I respond can you confirm that you actually read and understood what I said in >>10240580 when it comes to the pyramid talk.

>>10240845
>don't use "is"
Yes, and perhaps we could have this entire conversation in Korzybsky's e-prime, but then it would be probably worth more than a shit-slinging festival on 4chan. Still not an argument, by the way.

>>10240876

I've already responded it and you had no answer which is why you're changing the subject to salaries. If you're defining a "pyramid scheme like" as money going to the top or salesmen receiving commission you include and every single salesmen and every single business under that umbrella. It serves no use.

Now justify your condensation by telling me exactly how the post your linking about pyramid schemes relates to the current discussion about salary in Scientology. Why do I need to understand the one in order to understand what you're going to say about the Salary?

>>10240897
>If you're defining a "pyramid scheme like"
Then you didn't read my post because I did not say that. I said they had systems within the Church which seem close. The use it serves was to show why some people mistakenly think it is a pyramid scheme.

>Now justify your condensation by telling me exactly how the post your linking about pyramid schemes relates to the current discussion about salary in Scientology.
At the end of my post I said their structure is not a pyramid but a straight line with all the money going straight to the top. The salary part was introduced when you began the argument that its pay structure was just like the Catholic Church. The implication of this being that wealth was either spread more equally amoungst the staff or Scientology or that the Catholic Church has a system whereby all the money received goes to him and misses out on others.

The reason why I want you to understand all of this is because I sense you are mistakenly (and your post has demonstrated that you were) thought I was saying that Scientology is a pyramid scheme or something similar.

>>10240897
>you include every business and salesmen under that umbrella
Yes but those other businessmen and salesmen don't pretend as if what they're really doing is saving your soul. You're right, Scientology is no different. It's a business.

why are scientology girls all so hot? i would join just for that

>>10242882
pic related, sea org girls

>>10242910
Nice try, Dan.

>>10229199
what do you think of Leah Remini, the KOQ actress?

>>10242953
Let me preempt that anon he will say that they are liars who are making up stories for money and defaming the church is an way of doing this. All their testimony means nothing unless they can furnish Church documents that substantiate it and even if those documents are genuine they are probably the work of rouge members

>>10242918
Showbiz us a doggy-dog world mate, i dont blame these gurls for doing ehat they have to do to get there, weather its sleeping around or joining the right religion.

>>10242953

I don't know anything about her as a person but the anti-Scientology show is awful. She doesn't even vet the guests, she takes their word on anything they have to say and runs with the story. It's so irresponsible. We need higher standards of journalism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKnkj3rAXpE

>>10242990

I only ask for some sort of corroborating evidence for the claims they make. Is that so much to ask? It's no matter. Keep exaggerating what I'm asking for so you can knock that straw man down without a fight, you weak, stupid person.

>>10242999
if scientology is the religion of the right, what is the religion of the left? islam?

>>10226837
bump

>>10238157
>dont-be-promiscuous
...unless recruiting more members.

>>10243681
psychiatry

>>10242990
by your logic i can defame you, then get a bunch of other people to defame you too and you just have to take it and if they make a career out of suing you then that's fine.

>>10242953
you bigots should just swallow your're prize and admit that a lot of what you have said is just wrong.

>>10243721
what is the punishment for a promiscuous scientology girl? who punishes her, all the other scientology girls?

>>10244439

They get thrown overboard, literally.

>>10243204
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKnkj3rAXpE

I love how everybody ignores how damning that video is for the anti-Scientology cultists.

>>10244503
holy snap!
leah rimini literally btfo eternally

>>10227312
written like a true believer. keep memeing the good meme, goy

>>10227708
stephen king is a nobody. in 30 years he will have evaporated. honestly, i don't use the word plebeian that much but you sound like a true plebeian and a newfag, and should probably stop posting here

>>10244584

Are you saying that anyone who values truth is a Scientologist?

>>10244596
>in 30 years he will have evaporated.
I like the way you think, but in 30 years they will still be rebooting King's biggest works as films, and well well past that.

>>10244596
The comparison's a bit of a joke too. Hubbard published 29 books, the only one of which to be adapted into a film was 14 years after his death. King needs three separate pages on wikipedia for his bibliography and a fourth for adaptations of his work, beginning 16 years before Hubbard passed away. Stephen King was the Stephen King of Hubbard's time.

>>10243204
Ive provided corroborating evidence and a discussion at length in
>>10229327
>>10229330
>>10229515
>>10234110
However you claimed to be too tired to respond to them. Is it too much to ask for you to be intellectually honest? Ive literally provided you with empirical and scientific proof that engrams don't exist.

>>10243866
Thats not a logical conclusion as you are begging the question as your premise only works if your conclusion is true - namely that they are lies to begin with.

Here is a product of your logic though " Its defamation to say Jimmy Savile sexually abused women because the only evidence the police had were witness statements from the 400+ so called victims"

>>10245196

Nigga pls. I'm not even the one you were talking too. I've been watching you begging for replies these couple days though. Nobody is reading all that shit.

>>10245196
Something something about the people who witness Jesus rising from the dead as though it's a relevant example

>>10245217
Now that's a thought stopping cliche.

>>10245230

What is exactly?

>>10245225

Don't make me write 10 different posts refuting you.

>>10245236
Demanding a logical argument then refusing to read it because you're too tired or it's too long. What a shitty cop-out.

>>10245248

Do you understand that I'm not the guy he was talking to?

I don't why why you guys feel so entitled to other peoples time.

>>10245217
Even if you are not that anon (and those links were all mine bar the first and last so its not really demonstrating anything). The corroborating evidence you asked for is all there.

Its fun watching you beg for proof and then tie themselves in knots trying to ignore it.

>>10245260
That's funny, that's exactly how you or they were behaving earlier. Nigger you're still responding.

>>10245262

Evidence for what? I'm not reading the entire thread just to find out what in the hell you're talking about. I was talking about Leah Remini's show. Your posts say nothing about it.

>>10245263

What behavior are you talking about?

>>10245196

Hey man respond to these posts even though they're entirely unrelated

>>10243866
>>10243204
>>10242918
>>10240938
>>10240845

>>10245276
>>10245260

>>10245272
>Evidence for what?
A discussion on how witness statements can corroborate each other, how the abuses of the fair game policy have been documented and how the technology profesed by the group doesn't work.

>>10245292

Oh okay. That answers that.

>>10245301

The fair game policy was canceled and what the hell does the technology have to do with the people going on Leah Remini's show?

>>10245290
No worries anon

>>10245196
>>10245196
Third is just a topical meme about a suspected pedo.
The fourth link is one of mine
and the last one was answered in >>10240938 and >>10240876

>>10245310
>The fair game policy was canceled
Source on that? According to Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology the policies are still in place.

>>10245352

Every Scientologist that has ever spoke about fair game said it was canceled. I can't help but notice that you failed to explain the relevancy of the posts you linked me to the people going on Leah Remini's show. I hope you're not just interested in bickering about fair game because that would be boring.

>>10226253
the ultimate redpill

>>10245375
>Every Scientologist that has ever spoke about fair game said it was canceled.

To use your own words "I only ask for some sort of corroborating evidence for the claims they make. Is that so much to ask?"

>I can't help but notice that you failed to explain the relevancy of the posts you linked me ...bickering about fair game
Didn't I do that in the >>10245301? As for fair game that court case demonstrates that the the aggressive practices she and the people on her show attribute to the Church towards outsiders have been found to have a basis in truth. Hence it makes it much harder to defend the claim they are all making it up.

>>10245423

The church says one thing and you say another. It's on you to prove your case. You gave a name of a court case but that doesn't mean anything to me. I don't know anything about it and you haven't explained why the court case matters. Are you expecting me to look it up and read everything about it? This is stupid. You know what, for the sake of argument I'm going to give you and the case you cited the benefit of the doubt. I'm going to assume that it's fairly recent and that explicitly spells out that the fair game policy is active. Who's to say it wasn't canceled after that court case?

>Didn't I do that in the

No you didn't explain anything. You're butted into an unrelated conversation and tried to shoehorn in your bullshit. I've seen you begging for attention by linking those posts to a bunch of different people in this threads and I think its pathetic. Dianetics are whatever the fuck you're talking about has nothing to do with the reliability of the testimony of people going on Leah Remini's show. Give it up. I have better things to do than bicker over stupid bullshit.

>>10245452
You are too cute anon, its people like you that makes the investment all worthwhile.

How can a single Scientologist continually BTFO this board?

>>10245746
samefag

>>10245792

You only linked one post.

>>10244633
ummm no sweetie
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/most-published-works-by-one-author

1084 books published by Hubbard is the number you are looking for.

>First white man to be awarded Blackfoot bloodbrotherhood
>Youngest boy to achieve rank of Eagle Scout
>First westerner to be summoned to the court of Kublai Khan at the age of 10
>First man to discover minerals in Puerto Rico
>First Commander of McDonald's
>First Chancellor of Arby's
>Repelled a fleet of stealth subs off the coast of Mexico
>Cured Jack Parsons of his heterosexuality

Is there anything Hubbard can't do?

>>10245196
I'm the anon who asked about that actress.
Got another couple of questions. What is it called Scientology? What the tech? >
Inb4 google it
I rather have the first hand, hopefully insightful, definition of an actual scientologist.

Second:
What are the benifits of these Scientology techniques that they teached you? how did you applied this knowledge to your own personal problems and how these problems were resolved (thanks to Scientology)

L. Ron Hubbard is not a meme
L. Ron Hubbard will never be a meme
Stop shitposting L. Ron Hubbard

>>10227312
What's it like getting gang raped by the seaorg every morning?

>>10247212
Hahaha, fuck this MUST be bait. Hubbard and his cultists are
so fucking ridiculous they are like a parody of a shitpost.

>>10247240
t. shlomo shekelberg

>>10247214
Is this a formal confession?

>>10247204
Im not member of the Church of Scientology I just take an interest in its history, affairs and practice.

>What is it called Scientology?
The word means "study of truth". In practical terms it means the teachings of L Ron Hubbard specifically those which came after Dianetics.

To condense it all they believe Humans are spiritual beings with with a vast but repressed potential (ultimately including control over matter, energy, space and time) and that his teachings can unlock this.

>What the tech?
Its what Hubbard and Scientologists use to refer to his teachings, practices/lessons.

As for the specific technology its a vast amount of things so its hard to be concise. Some important factors though:-

-Its a religion which is set up like a ladder with higher teachings (which promise greater powers) being off limits to lower members and the public and progressively more expensive.

see >>10238811 on the right hand side the OT courses are where the secrecy starts.

-The teachings in theory are not allowed to be changed by anyone but Hubbard which means there have been some complications due to him dying before completing the full path to spiritual freedom (about the top 7 levels), likewise there are disputes over claims the tech changed with the new leadership.

-They are wrapped up/accompanied by organizational policies which are very high pressure and controlling.

>What are the benifits of these Scientology techniques that they teached you?

Auditing is a form of regression therapy and hypnosis, whilst it might not function the described in his first book for a section of the population this can be an effective way of reliving trauma and occasionally triggering euphoria.

>how did you applied this knowledge to your own personal problems and how these problems were resolved (thanks to Scientology)

This is something both the Scientologists (and the Mormons in their own way) get their members to do a lot during practice.

>>10227016
>a diamond dozen anon
Is this some kind of supreme 4chan being?

>>10247313
your're mom is a supreme 4chan being

>>10247268
>>10247240
You might find it interesting but Hubbard believed that a cartel of bankers (who lead psychiatry front groups) were destabalising the economy to stop Scientology.

>>10247317
mfw Hubbard was right. Again.

>>10247317
>>10247320
Sh-shut it down!

>>10247325
don't let everyone find this out or they will all want to join

>>10247325

>>10247317

Hubbard is always right

I don't understand why disconnection gets such a bad rap. It's voluntary association and everybody does it. If you identify a piece of shit in your life you stop talking to them.

>>10247735
It's okay if it's voluntary on a person by person basis. It's not okay if you have to disconnect or face being declared yourself, which happens even in the contexts of mother/child or husband/wife, which is very sad

>>10247996

> It's not okay if you have to disconnect or face being declared yourself

Why is it not okay to tell somebody that you're not going to talk to them anymore if they keep associating with somebody else?

>>10247996

>It makes me sad therefore its bad

can someon give me a quick rundown on the church and what happens there?
like do theyhave religious retreats and meetings and so on?

>>10248779

A Scientology church is just a place for people to take classes and learn how to improve their lives. You can get a good idea of what the philosophy is about by reading pic related or you could take some of the free course that are available on the Scientology website.

>>10247735
>I don't understand why disconnection gets such a bad rap.
As a concept or as it is used by the Church of Scientology? In Scientology its dodgy because they take a very liberal definition of it and use it crack down hard on any internal dissent or criticism. Hence you get situations where if people disagree with church policy they can face loosing their job, friends and families. In addition they can also face being "fair gamed".

So the idea is intrinsically wrong but how it is used.

>>10248779
>quick rundown on the church and what happens there?
They provide classes, sell books and offer auditing. Depending on the level of services provided it can be anything from a free personality check to 50 dollar course all the way up to tens of thousands of dollars and auditing that costs hundreds of dollars an hour.

As a point of reference though look at >>10238811, things stop being really cheap past the introductory services
Here is a multi episode podcast that you might enjoy

http://ohnopodcast.com/investigations/2016/2/1/ross-and-carrie-audit-scientology-part-1-going-preclear

>>10249247

Why is it wrong to stop associating with people for whatever reason they choose?

>>10249313
You forgot the last sentence "So the idea is intrinsically wrong but how it is used."

>>10249322
>>10249247
Oh sorry I just notice my spelling error I meant to say the idea is *not* intrinsically wrong but how it is used is.

>>10249271

Ross and Carrie are retarded. They said he was reading Exodus and couldn't figure out what was going on when God demanded the first born sons, it's like he skipped the part right before that where its explained that the first born sons go into the priesthood. Ross or whoever is acting like they're talking about human sacrifices and he goes full on fedora. Why bother reading the bible if you're going to be so stupid about it?

>>10247317
Based Hubbard.

>>10247341
Why wouldn't you want them to? Or is this reverse psychology sales?

>>10251018
>>10247582
>>10247353
>>10247325
>>10247320
>>10247317
is Hubbard dare i say it, our guy?

do auditors and parishioners get tips? if not you could see why they would bee upset.

>>10252668
>30-55% Holy fuck is the real?

>>10252710
well yeah, dont you tip properly my man?

>>10226253
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_Earth_(novel)

reading the plot synopsis for mission earth on wikipedia makes it sound so much worse than it actually is, I read it when I was a teenager like 10 years ago and I remember it being my favorite work of fiction ever. I can't tell if that was just because I was younger and less well-read or if it was actually mind-blowingly good, I assume the latter but honestly would like to give it a re-read someday, does have some pretty cool ideas in it.

>>10246263
>Is there anything Hubbard can't do?
music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtxWlTIWRHo

>>10228552
Because thetans existed before the physical universe obviously u fucking noob

>>10230704
damn, this is on the fucking nose right here

>>10231861
obviously through thetan magic you IDIOT because it's SUPERIOR to fleshy MEAT BODIES

>>10231890
what if they all meet in secret and you just don't know, what if you're the only one who isn't part of it but everyone else is but they keep it a secret from everyone else?

>>10234265
He's in the guiness book of world records for "most translated author"

>>10254399

He probably is. He also has the record for most published.

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/most-published-works-by-one-author

His sci-fi is not bad, neat and self contained.
Of all the people to make a scam religion, a sci-fi author seems like the perfect pick

>>10236719
Out of curiosity which church?

what do scientologist's do for Christmas?

>>10248026
It's okay for an individual to say that, it's not okay for an organization to say that for all of its members

>>10254452
christmas. It's exactly the same except with no mention of jesus, just gift giving.

Basically secular christmas. If you have a different religious background then usually you celebrate that holiday instead.

>>10254461

Why is it different? An organization is just a group of individuals.

>>10254525
The difference is being told to do something. If you are told to disconnect from your mother even though you don't want to, you might do it because you are forced to weigh between your mother or your social network and maybe employment. If the organization didn't impose this demand on the individual they would not make that choice. So it is not a voluntary free choice.

I don't think you do your church any favours by ignoring the distinction instead of addressing it.

Additionally an organization is not "just a group of individuals" if it doesn't even have the pretension of being democratic; especially not an autocracy.

>>10254525
if you think about it, the population of the planet is an organisation, as we are all on it together, if a small group of individuals are trying to improve conditions for the entire population, then we should praise them.

>>10254399
>dubs confirmed
Hubbard is literally a literary genius and the one true voice of humans.

>>10256333
>3 3's
the prophecy is true

>>10226253
What do /lit/?