/lit/ - Literature

Why don't you stop trying to force your ideologies into people and you actually use your money on something she'd like instead? Is being a decent, likeable human being too hard for you?

I would say Hayek but I doubt she would read anything of his with an open mind.

>>10242713
t. postmodern neomarxist

>>10242685
I'm at the fourth chapter, does this book get less boring?

>>10242740
It's either one or the other. Never anything else.
Reported

>>10242713
The reason I'd like to deprogram her is because she's morbidly obese, childless and alone in her mid-30s, and spends all day on Redit and similar sites and she's started denouncing family members as "racist" on her Facebook. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Her false premises have destroyed her life, are endangering the careers of my family, and are making her miserable.

>>10242713
This, basically the equivalent to saying "How do I convince my happy mom to be atheist guiz" in 2008 4chan

>>10242783
So what?
Do you think she'd try and help you or lend you this much concern?

>>10242800
My sister isn't happy.

>>10242801
I'd be in a gulag if she had her way. Good thing the golden rule isn't "as they would do unto you." Go get your morals fixed.

Industrial Society and Its Future

Just make her economics

>>10242820
*learn

The list so far:

The Gulag Archipelago
Demons
Industrial Society and Its Future

>>10242808
It's obvious that she dislikes herself and is projecting her self hatred onto those around her, subscribing to an ideology that panders to the indulgence of her failings and weakness of character.
I wouldnt approach this politically, it seems to go far beyond that

>>10242836
What should I do, then?

>>10242839
I don't know, I'm not good at helping people.
Dostoevsky helped me and would be a good idea but i doubt she would read him or find him interesting.
The Gulag Archipelago would be good because it both exposes Marxism and could help her with empathy or stir something else in her soul. But it's a very dry book for those not interested in the subject and again i don't know if she would even bother with it.
It's hard to help people with books, especially if they are unwilling and let's face it, tumblr and marxism is much easier than any sort of improving

Origins of Totalitarianism
Is God Happy?

Like the other Anon said though, why not let her read her literature, why change her opinion by feeding her opinions she doesn't hold? Try to convince her by reading these yourself, unless she has already outed her interest on these subjects.

>>10242713
This is a hypocritical post

>>10242857
What books from him are opposing Marxism?
Currently reading Crime and Punishment and I see very little of it.

>>10242865
Well Demons, but i was recommending Dostoevsky because he could also help with some of her personal problems. Demons or The Brothers Karamazov would be good choices for that

>>10242685
"Did anyone here my answer to the question of how to cure - 'redeem' - a woman? Give her a baby. Women need children"
If you can actually get her to read some Nietzsche: Thus Spoke Zarathustra. But really though, she's probably doing only what she can do. Some people don't have the capacity to resist getting sucked into retarded ideologies.

>>10242685
books aren't going to work a helicopter is the only cure for communism

>>10242685
>buying books for someone to convince them to relinquish marxism
you're going about this the opposite way that you should be

>>10242742
if you find it boring you should probably stop because its all the same. i just finished volume 1 today and fucking loved it. going out to buy the second volume tomorrow

>>10242783
so she's a depressed liberal and you think she'll start exercising instead of posting on social media if she reads a book about prison camps? and what does marx have to do with any of this? i really don't follow your logic here.

>>10243001
LIBRULS

>>10242985
What exactly did you love about it? It's all "article 66 said we can kill some anti commies, so we did, let me tell you about (random rusky name) that suffered greatly, millions such cases". It kinda got boring after a while.

>>10242895
>not working is communism
You're confusing communism with the negative side of capitalism again

>>10243009
MURXUSMS

>>10242685
USSR and Marxism are not the same thing

>wanting to deprogram her instead of earnestly debating her with your opinions
People like you are why I can never be fully against the gulag

>>10243011
So basically no data and just anecdotal evidence?

you should get your sister or whoever it is professional help instead of using it as an excuse for memeing on /lit/. you're going to feel like a piece of shit when it turns out she killed herself while you were busy with your redpill fantasies.

>>10243015
marx was a neet who impregnated his maid then kicked her to the curb with his bastard son

>>10243036
>marx was a neet
so just like the average /lit/ pos...
>who impregnated
never mind

>>10242808
>My sister isn't happy
You're missing the point

Someone can find Marxist critiques cogent and at the same time be critical of communism. Marxism is a critique of capitalism not necessarily an endorsement of communism. Read any Marxist thinker from the past hundred years. Sounds like you could learn a lot from her.
>B-but marx was a communist! Believing Marx is believing a communist!
It's also possible to think critique of pure reason is genius and at the same time think kant's ethics and aesthetics are fucking retarded.

>Basic economics by sowell
Real eye opener for me.

>>10242820
Marx is the foremost economist, dork.

>>10242685
There is no 'deprogramming' a Marxist. Marxism is an infinitely more coherent and inteligent approach to materialism than capitalism. But marxists are naive in thinking they can aim for the communist utopia while retaining some semblance of freedom and individuality. Capitalists think - wait no they don't think.

But FUCK materialism. There is no solace to be found in an industrial society - capitalist or communist. The only logical conclusion to it is transhumanism. We will be engineered to fit the need of the system. It's been happening ever since the industrial revolution, but we'll clearly see it with the bioengineering breakthrough.

>>10242820
Mmmmmm I love it when my wife makes me Economics for breakfast.

>>10242685

>>10242685
Stirner is the only good answer, but then you can't be a rightcuck anymore. Look into the debate between Marx and Das Stirn, it makes Marx so angry he has a meltdown in The German Ideology and dedicates a chapter to the sardonically named "St. Max"

>>10243580
I know that Das Kapital is a classic economics text, but that would be like making her learn Aristotle's physics instead of learning actual physics

PJ O'Rourke.

>>10242685

No need for a book when a visit to his grave will do

>>10244932
It's ironic that it's the case, but also moronic to think it's a critique of Marxism.

>>10244932
actually its because the state refuses to upkeep the property (too busy bribing corporations with tax cuts and funding imperialism) which is vandalized constantly by room temperature IQ troglodytes

>>10242685
Have you ever considered making her read Marx and Engels?

>>10242800
implying anyone who posts on /pol/ was around for 2008 4chan

>>10242685
It's impossible to deprogram a materialist.

Kolakowski spent the entire first half of his life studying Marxist philosophy, so when he went for debunking it, he actually knew what he was talking about.

>>10245178
Yeah. Everyone who wants political discussion of I higher calibre than r/theDonald had to move to ''the chan that I am not allowed to post the name of on here because hiro doesn't want me to divert traffic away from here so he has its name be interpenetrated as spam''Chan back in 2015. /Lit/ is one of a few boards I still use here. /lit/ is still great. I love /lit/

>>10245157
This. Das Kapital will make all Marxism look retarded.

>>10242713
Oy Vey

>>10242783
The prospect of helping is noble, but you can't dent people like that.

>The Book of Daniel
>Kings II
(If she says shes against Christianity, just tell her it was written by Jews)
>Neuromancer - William Gibson
>VALIS - Philip K. Dick (He wasn't actually a >leftie, he was just minscontstrued by Hollywood)
>The Magic Mountain - Thomas Mann

If you think Marxism is wrong, something to ‘debunk’, then chances are you’ve never seriously studied the humanities to any decent degree.

You also must have a minuscule knowledge of 20th century intellectual history - Marxism was central to the thought of some of the most important intellectuals - are we swapping Benjamin, Lukacs and Adorno for fucking Hayek and muh basic economics?

>>10245373

>>10245246
XD

anyone who reads this book and is still convinced of Marxism doesn't deserve to breath

>>10245373
that's the problem with Marxism. You hide behind a veneer of intellectualism to justify its atrocities

>>10245739
>ideologies cause atrocities

Looks like someone opened the brainlet cage again

>>10245744
so if Arabs were unconvinced of their religion would they still be slicing heads off and blowing up buses?

>>10245739
>You hide behind a veneer of intellectualism to justify its atrocities
Codreanu literally put children on meathooks and butchered them in public

>>10242685
"Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution" by Anthony Sutton is a worthy read, it highlights how Communism is just another flavour of international ist monopoly capitalism.

>>10245760
No, reductivist, ideologies only "cause" damage when they stick in the mind. An ideology of itself (which is rather a nonsensical concept) can cause as little damage as a lobotomized (thoughtless) human. They need vectors to spread.

>>10245766

>>10245772
there's plenty of history proving that Marxism is indeed a dangerous ideology. Anyone who wants to reinstate it is effectively saying that want to enslave everyone while they get a comfy spot in the politburo because they're one of the "Enlightened" ones

>>10245781

wikipedia.org/wiki/Legionnaires%27_rebellion_and_Bucharest_pogrom

>"He(Gunther) recognized three of his acquaintances among the "professionally tortured" bodies (lawyer Millo Beiler and the Rauch brothers). He added, “The bodies of the dead were hanged on the hooks used by slaughterers.”"[4] The American minister to Romania, Franklin Mott Gunther, toured the meat-packing plant where the Jews were slaughtered with the placards reading "Kosher meat" on them. He reported back to Washington: "Sixty Jewish corpses were discovered on the hooks used for carcasses. They were all skinned . . . and the quantity of blood about was evidence that they had been skinned alive".[8] Gunther wrote he was especially shocked that one of the Jewish victims hanging on the meat hooks was a five-year-old girl, saying that he could not imagine such cruelty was possible until he saw the evidence of it firsthand."

>>10245785
Again, ideologies in and of themselves are not dangerous. Only ideological people are dangerous.

>>10242820
Economics is shit and probably satanic too

>>10245787

>>10245791
& not even that. Ideologies only become dangerous when they seek to attain ideological hegemony.

>>10245807
Does that edgy quote from a fiction writer disprove the fact that your Husbando tortured a 5 year old before skinning her alive?

>>10245809
Communists wanted a global revolution. Corneliu wanted to kick subversives out of Romania and keep them out

>>10245819
>Communists wanted a global revolution
Only Trotskyism wanted that. Have you never heard of Socialism in one country?

>>10245817
>Solzhenitsyn
>fiction

I don't deny that the Iron Guard killed people. But the Iron Guard also didn't have a mandate for global revolution and putting everyone who spoke ill of Stalin in a hell on earth prison. How dare you call Solzhenitsyn a liar you fucking subhuman

>>10245823
so it's just an accident that after Russia became red half of the world did too?

>>10245828
Solzhenitsyn is know to have put unverifiable rumors and wivestales into Gulag Archipelago.
It is just an anti-communist version of Human Lampshades or Jews being turned into soap.

>>10245835
No. It was an opportunistic power and land grab by Stalin after WWII so that he could have a larger buffer between Russia and the West. If Stalin was a Fascist he would have done the same thing.

>>10245843
Solzhenitsyn's work is much more concrete than Elie "it happened but it didn't happen" Wiesel. I also don't think it's a coincidence that every book store has tons of copies of Night and the Manifesto and Solzhenitsyn has been completely forgotten until Memerson started talking about him.

>>10245848
Lenin wanted the same thing, it's painfully obvious how hard you're trying to save face for him by throwing Stalin under the bus.

>>10245823
Bullshit dude Communism is essentially internationalist. Stalin steered the Soviet Union towards the more nationalist "socialism in one country"

>>10245861
>workers of the world unite

Communism is just another flavor of globalism

>>10243011
i really enjoyed his sarcasm and rhetorical questioning type style. i really wasn't aware of the shit that ent in the soviet union so it was eye opening to me i guess. the entire section on the trials i found really interesting. i can see how you think its repetitive in a way, but I'm enjoying the content so i didn't really notice.

>>10245855
>how hard you're trying to save face for him by throwing Stalin under the bus.
I never said that Stalin's expansion into the Warsaw pact was bad. In fact, It was a really smart idea. He had the political capital to do it and it made one country into a multi-National bloc capable of waging a half-century long cold war against the entire rest of the world.

>>10245861
Are you implying that Stalinism is not a kind of Communism?

>>10245871
Oh fuck off you stupid Nazi, Poland joined the Soviet Union willingly.

>>10245887
>Stalin's expansion into the Warsaw pact was bad. In fact, It was a really smart idea

the only good thing about the iron curtain was that it kept the countries behind it uncucked. Poland, Hungary don't take any shit for a reason

>>10245897
Anti-Communist ≠ Nazi

>>10245904
Western Liberalism has killed more people than Communism and Fascism combined
>>10245897
I Hope this is an ironic post.

>>10245912
what year does "Western Liberalism" begin? 1789?

>>10245919
I was thinking more 1776 but yes around then.

>>10242685
Darkness at Noon.

>>10243651
I don't think you know what materialism means

>>10245930
one can argue that the population wouldn't be spiraling out of control if it weren't for capitalism. I highly doubt whatever estimate of people killed by western liberalism you've made is equal to that

>>10245240
Someone didn't read it.

>>10245807
The guy actually wrote an essay about the history of Jews in Russia. He said that both the Jewish people and the Russians need to take responsibility for the radicals among themselves. I think our friends at /pol/ should consider that.

>>10245942
>You can kill as many people as you want as long as more of them are born.
Isn't that supposed to be my line?

>>10245954
the problem is it never got a proper English translation

>>10245966
Yeah. I'm sure some internet collaboration could get that done

On that topic, I'd love to see a wiki of every story told in the Gulag Archipeligo, along with every person mentioned. It's a lot of stuff to keep track of from one reading

>>10245978
Brother Nathaniel made a video about how Elie Wiesel would respond when being asked about his experience in the camps. He would just go on a tangent instead of presenting any real evidence. I'm sure Solzhenitsyn is more consistent in his interviews

>>10245855
>Solzhenitsyn has been completely forgotten
uhh he's on Time's Top 100 Nonfiction of the Century list you retard

>>10246466
>a fiction list by Time magazine
L M A O

>>10242685
She is going to love you.

>>10242783
Make her read more Marx and she will realize that the purpose of life is social production

>>10242865
The Brothers Karamazov has a bunch of pwning Socialism, but only if you have predisposed sympathy for traditional communities and God.

>>10245787
>>10245766

So a man who was murdered in 1939 somehow rose from the dead 3 years later to butcher children before disappearing?

>>10245823
A-are you dumb? The point of socialism in one country is to get a good enough army to invade other countries and move toward global revolution.... that's what the cold war was.

>>10242783 >>10242685

Came here to suggest Alan Greenspan, but if she's that far gone, I'm not sure the book is within her grasp

>>10242685
Unironically the Communist Manifesto.

No-one is a communist who has actually read what communists write.

>>10242685
Black Book of Communism, period.

>>10244952
top kek.

Under the Sign of the Scorpion by Juri Lina, great read that.

>>10243566
>at the same time think kant's ethics and aesthetics are fucking retarded.
Those are the best parts of Kant

>>10242685

animal farm. marxist paradise is on the same fantastic level as, say, libertarian paradise. both assume a vacuum that in reality nature fills

>>10247338
So, liberalism is nature? Then why would these so-called atrocities not happen in liberalism?

>>10245373
If you think heliocentrism is wrong, something to ‘debunk’, then chances are you’ve never seriously studied the humanities to any decent degree.

You also must have a minuscule knowledge of western intellectual history - heliocentrism was central to the thought of some of the most important intellectuals - are we swapping Aristotle and Ptolemy for fucking Copernicus and muh basic astrophysics?
(pss: did you also forget that marxists themselves critique marxism all the time? ;) )

>>10242783
She should actually read Marx, lol. Then she might not be like that, with perspective and meaning.

>>10247525
Imperialism aka liberalism aka democracy is the most genocidal system in history

>>10245942
by that logic the deaths under communism are fine too, because they had a bigger population after stalin than before

>>10242783
>morbidly obese liberal
>gulag archiperegligomolo.
Why?

>>10247557
Did you mix up heliocentrism with geocentrism you fucking retard?

>>10242783
If it's that late in the game, pulling the ideological rug out from under her feet isn't a good idea. She's probably been functioning on those principles for a long enough time that she'd be lost without them.

Every time I see someone reading this in public I'm convinced its one of you fucks.

>>10247741
yes lol

>>10246476
Do you understand what the word forgotten means?

>>10245224
/pol/ was and still is decent if you lurk long enough.
Though this rule applies to almost every board.
Except /mlp/

>>10245930
You fucking moron. Western Liberalism started with the creation of the Magna Carta.

>>10245224
/lit/ is retarded

>>10248005
>if you spend insane amounts of time parsing utter shit you might come across something not completely retarded
Just how sad is your life?

>>10245791
guns dont kill people, people do

>>10245809
scientology as an application that is dangerous even without hegemony.

>>10248021
>Western Liberalism started with the creation of the Magna Carta.
Is this an Ironic post? Or are your really stupid enough to think that Liberalism just means giving people Freedoms?

>>10242893
>Some people don't have the capacity to resist getting sucked into retarded ideologies.

why is /lit/ so full of edgy 15 year olds?
i mean really this is the most try hard board out there.

you never thought of helping your fellow man (woman) regardless of her capacity?

or maybe these ideologies, though flawed, speak to her temperament. cause we're all different.

this board is full of shit.

>>10245912
>Western Liberalism has killed more people than Communism and Fascism combined

i love how on 4chan the burden of proof is on the reader, not the writer. this is a retardedly big claim to make and needs some sources.

>>10248567
What was the near extermination of the Native Americans? What were the atrocities in the Congo Free state? There are plenty of other genocides I could name.

>inb4 But they died of disease, exhaustion, exposure, starvation, and in wars.
If you really want to say that, You have to apply those same standards to the Holocaust and atrocities carried out by the Soviets and Chinese. When you do that Hitler only killed like 2 million people and Stalin killed even less.

People everywhere are really fucking terrible and who ever has power will use that power to murder millions. Because that is what people do.

>>10242685
Even a cursory google search would have revealed to you that Solzhenitsyn was a Nazi collaborator before becoming a paid CIA shill. His book does not contain one single scrap of objective evidence.

>>10248524
he's a /pol/tard so i think it goes without saying

>>10245605
i wouldn't accept this as an arguement for something I disagree with, I dont see why I should accept it now

>>10243032
wow a dumb marxist in 2017, this is a rarity

How far into Marxism is she? If she went beyond adorno she's probably too smart for you and there isn't really any chance to "deprogram" her.

>>10248605
>What was the near extermination of the Native Americans? What were the atrocities in the Congo Free state?
Only somewhat better than what the nogs could do to themselves given superior technology and the like to be quite honest with you.

Also, we haven't yet heard complain about the genocide of the Thugee in India by the Brits, but it's only a matter of time before the SJW brigade jumps on that bandwagon.

>>10245766
>Codreanu literally put children on meathooks and butchered them in public

What. The actual. Fuck.

You're either retarded or full of shit.

>>10243036
And Pilar Primo de Rivera, leader of the femenine section of the falange and author of the "guide of thegood wife" was never married and never had children.

>>10244945
this, why people is this retarded?

>>10248567
>i love how on 4chan the burden of proof is on the reader, not the writer
well fuck off if you don't like it, I've been here for 11 years and this kind of shit has always been the norm. Hell, who doesn't lie for sport here?

>>10242740
Look, I like Peterson as much as the next one, but please stop this cringy meme. Not every Marxist is also a post-modernist.

>>10242783
What does this have to do with Marx?

>>10245912
western liberalism didn't kill as many people, but it did try to kill God though, which I'd say is the bigger crime. Diecide is worse than genocide.

>>10249861
See >>10248605
Though, I agree with you on the cultural costs of Internationalist Liberalism especially of modern popular Neo-Lib/Con variety.

>>10247164
Pretty much this. Given that Courtois was a Maoist himself, nobody can really claim he started out with an anti-Marxist objective.

Solzhenitsyn is a better writer, but too many are inclined to dismiss him because of antisemitism nonsense.

>>10244952
>the only problem with marxism is freedom

>>10249805
>Not every Marxist is also a post-modernist.
Literally none of them are

OP here. After much careful thought I've decided to just give up on my sister and stop talking to her. I'd rather spend the money on other stuff anyway. I don't have any real hope for her anymore. Her false teachers poisoned her mind to the point where it would take a miracle to snap her out of it. Imagining that I could have helped her at this stage was just wishful thinking on my part. Maybe years ago I could have done something, though at the time I didn't know what to do, but it's simply too late now. You have to write off some people as lost causes.

Ultimately I know that she doesn't want to be helped. I guess in a decade or two I'll hear about her having a heart attack from eating herself to death while carrying around her bitter, impotent, genocidal rage, but in the meantime I'm relieved at the prospect of never speaking to her again.

Thanks for the suggestions. There were some books mentioned that I was unfamiliar with that I'll check out for myself. If you know anyone who's slipping into a creepy totalitarian death cult, please try to guide them out of it before it's too late. Take care, guys.

>>10245823
Proletarians have no country. Do you not understand a lick of Marx?

This is the only way.

>>10251626
Sorry to hear that OP, but you're probably right that there's not much that can be done for her now. And if there is anything, it's going to have to include her recognizing her own depression and being willing to be self-critical to examine what's behind it. I hope everything works out for her in the long run, and that your own life goes well too.

>>10251657
Right-wing, conservative, and classical-liberal politics have been seriously set back because of idiots associating anything but socialism with her hackery. Please keep her confined to the eternal ayn rand thread that's almost always here.